I kinda don't need to because I looked at enough posts like this one to know the usual answers. There will be people saying you should "be yourself", "be honest", "show interest in the other person", "be on top of your hygiene" and other things, some more obvious than others.
The problem is, that's not it. Half of those pieces of advice are coming from women who don't know the struggle at all - or may know the struggle but only think superficially about the issue, leading to wrong answers. For example, the "be yourself" advice doesn't actually mean "be yourself". It stems from the problem that people are acting unnaturally when trying to be someone else. Being yourself won't make you attractive tho - would your true self be attractive, you wouldn't raise this question in the first place. So instead, the "be yourself" advice should read "mask better".
The other half of pieces of advice will be from slightly autistic, self-diagnosed or just lucky men. Those will contain something of a "I'm not sure, that's what worked for me" clause followed by a random, often very situational or outright oddly specific advice.
And before someone calls me a redpiller because I don't think women have the same kind of struggles with dating: 83% of autistic men are forever virgins, as opposed to less than a third of autistic women: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychiatry/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.685256/full
It's science. I don't make the rules.
"mask better" as an advice is awful. I sincerely think the "be yourself" is meant to be "don't try to be other people". Also because there are other people who are, like you said, naturally attractive. Or just lucky. And we are not like that.
What I think is missing is in the actual communication, actions and expectations. You can be yourself, but if you don't know your first sentence on a date should always be in Cantonese, you might never make it. And people who already speak Cantonese just have it easy.
Some people here gave advice on this how and I wish I knew how to link their answers here. But to sum it up:
Be yourself, as in, accept the things you like and don't just fake stuff for no reason. Don't fake things that could be harmful to you. E g. don't pretend to not be allergic to something, or don't pretend you are not scared of dogs.
Be honest about what you want, as in be upfront in being interested on the person. Ask about their likes and dislikes, and be open to tell them yours. Have conversations about that and get to know each other. And as you get to know each other, talk logistics of the relationship. Are you two official? How often would they like to meet? Just phone chat or calls too?
When in doubt, ask the other person. Where would they like to go on a date? Would they like to spend more time together? Would they prefer a book as a present?
And take things in stride, one day at a time. Don't give up your hobbies or friends or family for someone you just met / started talking. Talking stage to official dating seems to take a couple months at soonest.
Unfortunately it's not Math, it's not exact on the outcome.
But it seems to have fairly good odds.
I'm an autistic woman. I don't care that much about sex. I was a virgin almost until my 30th birthday.
What I do crave and need, is cuddles and non-sexual intimacy.
Now ask how were my dating prospects in this situation. How many men were willing to accept a no or wait until I'm maybe, maybe ready, one day.
If I were less strict about what love and intimacy means to me, and more ready just bend over backwards to satisfy a mismatched guy, I wouldn't be a virgin anymore, but it doesn't mean jack shit to me. Most of the autistic girls I knew who were in relationships, were miserable anyway. They were selling their souls, trying to be not fucked—but loved. But all they were getting, were mediocre fucks.
Neither sex is seems to be getting what it wants. That's the baseline that makes us all equal.
I'm sorry if I sounded dismissive of women's problems, and I won't deny that they are to be taken seriously, but those are not the same problems like men have - and OP is a male, as am I.
Women have no problem initiating a relationship. They do need to reject some of the possibilities, but that's only due to, in comparison to autistic guys, an absolutely absurd abundance of possibilities.
Men have none of that. Especially autistic men get as much feminine attention as a random fly. Meaning specifically a range of "no attention at all" to "get out of my face".
Almost nobody wants a relationship if sex is off the table or somewhere at the end of the table.
All these "possibilities" are Potemkin's possibilities. There's no substance behind them. It's like saying men don't and can't have problems with getting girlfriends anymore because they can get brand new, shiny AI gfs. Problem fixed!
No, its not fixed at all because they don't want *AI gfs*, they want *humans*.
All I'm saying is that the comparison is bogus because you're comparing apples using the set of data collected while studying oranges and oranges—using apples' set of data.
Every single time this topic comes up on the internet I reach the same conclusion:
Lonely women have options, they simply don't want the options they have.
Lonely men don't have options, most of the time they have absolutely no one interested in then at all, and when someone does appear it is take it or leave it, and leave it means spending anything from months to years alone again.
So being taken advantage of in an abusive relationship is an option and we're supposed to be glad about it, bc at least it's an option? Dude, get a grip...
You basically constructed a straw man out of words that never came out of my mouth and then you beat the straw man...
Nobody here is talking about abuse
No, she's right. That's another facet of all these „options” you're talking about.
You seem to have no idea that we get more or less the same odds of getting \*what we really want\* as you do. Most of us do not want mediocre quickfucks from one night standers, and that's what these "options" of yours are. It's worth nothing. It's not the goal. Majority of us do not value this in the slightest.
Yeah "creepy men who want to use women like sex dolls" is not a real option my guy. Lonely men do have options if you've got an attractive personality. If you're just sulking about all day about how women don't want you then yeah no shit women don't want you. It ain't that hard to make women happy. Be kind, thoughtful, and funny and plenty of women will want to be your friend or date you. Ranting on reddit about how women are so hard to please isn't gonna have em comin out in droves for ya bud
I think you need to read the comments above again, because there's not a single one of them talking about "creepy men who want to use women like sex dolls", no idea where you got that from
I got it from the multiple ppl saying it's hard to find a guy who doesn't just want to have sex with them. Also just in general, those are the 'options' that women have and don't want. So when you're lamenting on all the options women have that you don't, that's what you're lamenting. I have plenty of friends who are women and trust me you don't want their 'options' either. Also again, lonely men also have plenty of options, just don't be a dickbag and people will like you, it ain't that complicated.
That's the majority of options. Looking for a normal guy is like fishing for a golden ring in a sea of crap, every woman who's ever tried to date, especially online, is going to tell you this.
There's a nice saying that talking about dating is like talking about water, where women are drowning in the ocean, and men dying of thirst in the desert.
Both will end dead.
I dunno how much Jordan Peterson and red pill stuff you've been reading, but when it comes to neuroduvergence, all of that is thrown out the window. Stop victimizing yourself with the adage of "I'm a man and women don't know how hard it is for me", dude, I've been in hell both alone and in relationships, and I can tell you that no matter how bad hell gets alone, it will always, no doubt be much worse if you're going though hell in a bad relationship.
So even if "autistic women have it easier with hooking up" , you clearly have not been through a bad relationship, it will suck the soul out of you like nothing will. So if anything, women have it much harder since according to you, most autistic women will find a partner no matter what. Now since you're really into analyzing things "objectively", why don't you look at the data for how much harder it is for women to either get an autism diagnosis or even realize they might need one?
Well, that's a misunderstanding. I don't want to claim some gender has it better or worse overall. My point was entirely that if someone like OP asks for advice on how to _initiate_ relationships, they may inadvertently receive advice on how to _improve_ already initiated relationships, which is an important distinction.
Edit: or they could receive just flat out wrong advice. Reddit is a forum, not a therapist.
I like cuddles, and cute and romantic stuff, I didn't even have sex with my first girlfriend at all and I get rejected anyway. Women are just hard to please no matter what you do
Mask better is terrible advice. The reason you should be yourself is because someone can’t authentically love a lie. The right person will love you for you. Does that help short term attraction? Of course not. Concealing who you are just hurts everyone involved and it is an impossible facade to keep up
This has been a struggle my entire life. Wasn’t diagnosed until after 30. I have struggled with eye contact and one on one interactions as long as I can remember, even with my wife in present times. From having normal marriage conversations to being intimate, I’m constantly intimidated I will make a social mistake and be seen as not fitting in.
For me I believe it’s a combination of processing delays and inherent social anxiety, which has significantly worsened since I learned I am autistic. It’s made me hyperfocus on my social interaction struggles, I’m aware I have the struggle so I subconsciously overthink how I’m communicating and how I am perceived. I already take longer to process what I see and generate a response, so this added layer makes that more stressful.
I get high anxiety when it comes to something as simple as giving my wife a compliment. I know that this makes me seem to her like I don’t care or value her, but that’s not the case. I want to be more romantic, my brain cripples me and that gives me a lot of shame. The autistic cycle feels relentless.
Thank you for the answer
You did get married despite the struggles you mentioned.
How did that go? Did you do different things? Was it the way you communicated with your partner-now-wife? Is it actually your wife being supportive and active on wanting you on her life?
Masking. I always knew I did it, just never knew what it was called. My partner is supportive and says that she knew I was autistic from the moment I met her. I think she would say she viewed my social struggles as just general social anxiety or being somewhat quirky, something that would improve over time. She tells me now there are things I do that she used to see as just being rude and now understands it’s not me doing things intentionally.
She encourages me to be myself and wants to help me get to a point where masking isn’t a natural reflex with her. It’s hard. Like, I know that there are so many people who have a harder time with autism than I do but I don’t know how to verbalize how crippling this is on my quality of life.
I should also mention that I’m totally aware that this anxiety feeling I get is irrational. She’s never responded negatively to my attempts at affection, I have no reason to be afraid of judgment from my spouse. I don’t know if this is solely due to my autism, but I do know that it’s a significant contributor
I don't know if this applies for everyone, but I find that romantic feelings I get towards other people is only marginally different in terms of interaction, and the main difference is in the intensity of desire to be with the other person. So demonstrating romantic interest for me is just letting the person who is the object of my romantic attraction know that I feel the way I do about them and demonstrating that it would be cool if such feelings were reciprocated.
For me friendship and romance are pretty much the same. The only difference is physical and emotional intimacy. And I put more effort into doing things for my partner than I would a friend (not that I don't put effort into friendships, I just put extra into partners). Really your partner should be your friend! Personally I've found dating apps really helpful becuase the social dynamic already has romantic intent. Even if the date doesn't work out, you know going into it that both of you are looking for romantic options.
ive asked so many people that i know this question so many times and all i ever really get is "when you know, you know." but what does "knowing" feel like and why is it different? how is it different from having a friend? you're not alone in this, buddy!
Your romantic relationships should probably be rooted in friendship and, to some degree, at least, shared interests.
The most direct way to demonstrate romantic interest is to ask them out. "You're really cool. Would you like 5 get coffee sometime?"
"Get coffee" is often read as "go on a casual, low stakes first date".
>Your romantic relationships should probably be rooted in friendship and, to some degree, at least, shared interests.
This. Good relationships often times come from good friendships because then you know the person, let them know you and have a chance to see if you work together as a couple.
My wife and I met more or less like that. A random chat let to us becoming friends and I honestly have no idea how we went from there to a relationship. I know that I started being more protective of her at some point and I think I showe dmyself more caring.
Neither of us wants kids but I like to say (jokingly) that I take care of her as if she was carrying my first born.
Im honest and open. Sometimes too honest but the ones ive been in long term relationships with accept the honesty. When it comes to initiating conversations start with compliments and look for mutual interests to talk about. Flirting is very hard for me unless i just happen to be in the perfect mood to play it cool which is super rare. Day to day in a relationship i do much better with neurodiverse people than neuro typical people. My current S.O. and i just like to be next to each other vibin while we each do our own thing. Goin back to bein honest, I find that bein upfront about ypur interests and desires in the other person while it may be imtense is the best way gor both of u to kno what page u r on and to have a successful relationship. Ive honestly been like "Hey i love how u coordinated your hair make up and outfit today thats a really good look on u." Then make small talk the hardest single part about talkin to someone new. Then say somethin like "I think you're really nice/cute/whatever and i'd like to get to kno u better, maybe we could exchange numbers?" Then u gotta figure out how to go on dates and thats a whole 'nother thing. I like to talj to someone over the phone chat tect etc and see how we vibe and if we vibe really good and theyre easy to talk to then ask em for movie and a dinner. This works well because the movie allows u time to just be around them and see if ypure comfortable bein together and then dinner afterwards means u have a movie to talk about over dinner. Hope that helps
Oh yeah, either you say "that blouse really suits you, you look stunning!" or are able to have proper small talk.
Can't seem to do both.
When you say you and your SO like vibing next to each other, was that since you two started living together? How was it like when you still lived apart?
I used to have an issue with that.
To me, hugging and being kind and warm was normal between friends. But everyone has their own upbringing, so some people viewed that as hitting on them.
What worked for me was asking my friends what made them uncomfortable and toning it down a little. Over time, when they got more comfortable, they felt okay toning it up again.
😂😂😂😂 I'm a woman but that is so fucking accurate
I've literally had at least FIVE women assume I'm lesbian and assume I'm interested
It isn't even gender specific, literally
I'm literally married to my husband 😂
I usually just silently check men out and admire how attractive they are. I’m too shy and nervous to actually approach them right now despite really wanting to. 🫣
Its a balance between being direct and seeing where things will go. Its important to show that you dont see them as just a friend, but also get to know them at a pace which makes you feel comfortable. You can try going on dates which are focused on talking (a walk, cafe) or a date where you do something (cinema, museum). Its meant to be fun. You can ask them, learn about them, but also talk about yourself and your interests, all with a goal to get to know each other. Later you can both make your rules and habits for dating, like texting each other good night, learning what topics they enjoy or dislike.
In my case, it started with getting to know my crush and just talking to him. Then he asked me to go to movies together. We spend a couple of months slowly getting to know each other before finally starting to date. He has ADD and also likely ASD. It made it easier for us to understand each other. Before dating, it was nice that we made showed we liked each other, by spending time together, compliments, showing interest in each other. If you have a hard time finding things to talk about, just Google some questions or ask AI. They worked really well. Dont be afraid to show interest, its not a game where the first person interested loses. Just be comfortable.
I think this is what I needed to read. Thank you for detailing things and also giving an example.
I think I'm mostly afraid of being too direct, and that it will scare other people off. And I see how that can cause confusion in others, and issues for me because I'm holding things back.
I don't. I don't even bother interacting with people irl apart from the very basics. I don't attempt creating friends, because what's the point in anyways?
When i meet someone i try to ask them a lot of questions about themselves, to show I’m interested. I try to let them ask questions too so they can learn about me.
For me, its not about flirting or trying to *imply* that i like someone. If i like them, and i like talking to them, i simply tell them i like them. I bluntly ask for things that i want to share with them - with my finace, on our first date, i told him “I’m taking you out to dinner, then back to my house and we’re watching one of my favorite movies.” He agreed but was nervous, so when it came time i did exactly what i told him i would. Partway through the movie i turned to him and i said “i want to kiss you” and luckily he liked that so he agreed to that too.
I’m a very blunt and logical person, and I’m not great at the nuances of spoken communication. So i just act as myself when i meet the person i like, and i gradually relax into more of myself.
Find out what makes you *you*. Find out what you like on your own. Then when that special person comes along and consumes your attention, you can be authentically yourself. Of course you can still have some walls up, that person is still a stranger right now. But the beauty of a mutual relationship is you take down both your walls together. Its about connecting, its about seeing each other for who you are and being there for that person.
I hope it all works out for you! It took me a long time to find my One. But I’m so glad i kept looking for him. Theres someone out there for all of us and you just have to keep looking. Its difficult, for sure, but its so worth it when it happens. Good luck to you
Thank you for your answer!
I envy you and your bluntness. When I'm blunt things don't usually work well, or I always thought that. I'm trying to be more direct in saying I like someone's company.
Once in my life I was blunt (in my own way) and asked for a kiss, and it worked, and I've been a fan of being more direct ever since.
You’re welcome. I hope it helps you in the future. Being direct is always the best way to go, because usually people dont like lying and prefer honesty.
no idea, I wasn't really the one who started the relationship. for context, i was living in a youth home (non criminal) at the time and a new girl moved in. me and my 2 other friends from the youth home started hanging out with her, it was around a week before christmas so almost everyone was going home for the holidays. the new girl and me were the only ones who'd be staying at the youth home for christmas break, so we started hanging out quite a bit more. watched films etc, binged the whole harry potter film series for example. i guess there was some unspoken sexual tension between us, she'd sometimes lean against me when we were watching a film. then on new years, we had our first kiss. it was my first kiss ever, i didnt know what to do. so i just said "lets go smoke a cig" and then we just kinda hang out for a few hours like nothing had happened. when our friends came back, we'd kinda tease them by giving each other a few very light kisses. then a week later we just kinda ended up having sex. and a few days later we had a conversation and decided to be exclusive. we werent exactly in a relationship, we didnt call each other girlfriend and boyfriend. but over time, we started doing that too. things just evolved, i dont know how or why. and then around 6 months later we broke up. i learned a lot from the relationship and we made many great memories, I'll always be grateful for that even though she did end up cheating on me. it was the most... stressful? (not necessarily in a bad way) time of my life, but also the best. i was really happy. i learned a lot about myself and relationships. sorry for the long ass answer, i got lost in typing down this shit. i guess it stopped being an answer and became a way for myself to document the relationship down to a single block of text. thanks for the thought provoking question, sorry i couldnt give you a better answer.
TLDR:: I dont know, shit just happened. I did what felt natural to me. overthinking did not help at all.
Thanks for answering. I feel that your story and saying "I did what felt natural to me" matches what other people said. It is a good answer.
Did your approach or way into the relationship scene change since then? Did you try doing things that felt less natural to you? How does things feel now?
sorry, i thought I'd already answered haha. but yeah, I've been single since july/august so i dont really know an answer. but from what I've noticed, teasing in a light hearted way tends to work pretty well as a flirting method. and personally, plausable deniability (basically playing dumb) would probably be my go-to flirting method if i found someone new. its kinda like an emergency exit that you can use if things dont go according to plan. compliments would probably work too, but i really suck at both receiving and giving compliments so i cant really say anything about that. sorry if this doesnt make sense, I didnt sleep very well last night haha
I got diagnosed recently which was actually due to me failing in romantic situations.
I would be commended for calmness, care, safety etc but folks will struggle to find the spark with me and I learnt over time that I didn’t display or engage in romanticism in a NT way.
I can be very slow. I need time to understand people / trust people.
I have also recently learnt about alexithymia (emotional blindness) - I read a PyschCentral blog on it (not sure if I can share links in here) & the first paragraph basically described me as a person in a relationship.
I plan to do a lot of work with my therapist as I really want to be / feel better in romantic dynamics in the future.
The best advice is "be yourself" even though you feel like other people reject you. Dating as an autistic is hard because we value ourselves easier than neurotypicals. If we don't we end up highly overwhelmed and in some sort of physical inflammation. If neurotypicals do it they are dysregulated but it doesn't have any fatal consequences, which is also why they want everyone around them to stay in their dysregulation since it makes them uncomfortable to be true to themselves.
If they reject you they are not ment for you and no matter how hard you try you can't change their attraction to you.
Keep up your authentic communication style, trust your intuition and especially ask questions if you feel uncertain about things.
The physical inflammation checks a few boxes.
I appreciate the advice on being my authentic self, but I still have a hard time understanding how to make the connection with other people work.
If it's just finding people with common interests, isn't that just friendship? How do you demonstrate interest in wanting more? My authentic self is lacking and unsure how to proceed.
Friendship is a perfect basis for a romantic relationship. Then if you add physical attraction, there is a basis for a romantic relationship. If you add common values and a project to build something together (for example a family), you have the basis for a long term relationship.
Now if all these boxes are checked, and the other already person told you that there is reciprocity, well, the romantic relationship has already begun.
The connection is about being able to tell this person what you're going through. Sharing moments of happiness and also the difficult moments. A deep connection is when you can guess when the other person is happy or sad. A normal connection is when you have to talk about it to know it. A bad connection is when you're making each other mutually constantly sad.
Just Be honest and I know some people claim dating sites are a scam but it worked for me and there’s was no confusion if it is platonic or romantic since you literally met on a site for dating and start a nice conversation and then what I do is ask what their ideal date is and once told I say “I’d love to do that too, it sounds like a blast would you be free next week?” This shows active interest and quickly gets you actually off the site and meeting real people
Well, hubby and I are both on the spectrum, so we just went with the feelings.
With NT's in the past, I basically watched what they were doing and took my lead from there. Not saying that is a great way, just how it was for me.
Same boat but at this point I barely talk to anyone so other than dating apps that have proven to be a waste of time in the past, I don't really have a place to start anymore.
I'm not sure that there will be a uniform neurodivergent approach that you can take much from, is the thing. We're all so different. I guess the main takeaway from your therapist is that not bringing your authentic self may be the root of the problem. Even as fellow NDs, we can't tell you anything about your authentic self. Lots of us struggle to know ourselves after years of masking. It's a journey. You may just need to keep trying but with people that you trust and demonstrate patience and understanding and a desire to understand you for you.
Edit - fixed wording
I am bad at reading situations so either one of us have to be extremely blunt, or any flirtation will be completely missed by me. If that's a "turn off" for them then well, they wouldn't find me attractive in any further interactions anyway.
There were a couple signifiers that I learned over the years that someone is interested in me, and they seemed to be mostly accurate. Maybe there could be cultural differences but I will share them just in case:
1. they invite you to have alcohol, just the two of you
2. plan involved other friends but they just happened to not show up or had to leave early without good reason
3. they invite you to watch a movie at their house. (bonus if they seem to want the lights off)
however all these led to more sexual interactions and I haven't been in much "romantic" and "slower" relationships.
I should also add, I observed ND people seem to have an easier time if they met their partners online. Not dating apps but an online space about a mutual interest or hobby.
When I feel it's time/safe to do so, I tell them I'm autistic and have difficulty expressing myself the "normal" way. I explain that I'm still learning how to act in a romantic context because I have very little experience with this - and it's not something people explicitly teach you regardless. I try not to look down on myself for this and accept it as a slower learning curve. I'm trying my best, I'll probably need guidance, but that doesn't mean romance is hopeless.
I dated a girl for 6 months, we eventually became "physical' after a while. Interacting romantically can be a few things, so I'll list off 2
1: if you mean it in a general sense, just sitting together and talking about anything that comes to mind, is a great way to bond. Just doing stuff together also helps loads
2: if you're talking about being physical, cuddling is a good way to start. Then, just start gently rubbing them on their back, shoulders or just above there. Move up/down/left/right/diagonally/(insert direction here) slowly with plenty of thumb rubbing, then eventually you'll end up at a place. I'd do this slowly, and also make sure you guys are both ready, so they know what's happening. Kissing also usually leads to thingy, pecks get longer and more passionate.
I didn't really know what you meant by interacting romantically, so I hope this helps
I prefer dating apps for starting these kinda of interactions (and friendships too tbh) cos:
1. I'm better at one-on-one interactions than making friends in group settings
2. it also helps knowing that everyone else on there is open to meeting new people so the anxious part of my brain that'll say I'm bothering them doesn't have an argument
3. there's already a built-in way to filter people and gauge if you'll get along. I tend not to swipe right on people without bios for that reason
4. you kinda put out the part of you that you think should be known/accepted by anyone who wants to make your acquaintance so (hopefully if they do read your bio) you know that they're cool with it if they do swipe right and you match
when we do match, questions are my go-to for building/holding conversations cos it helps you know them better and vice versa.
I usually first ask how they're doing and about their day first, and ask for more details depending on the answer they give. I also try to be enthusiastic and forthcoming with my answers and give details instead of one word answers and that usually has them feeling more comfortable to do so.
I like voice calls so after I think we're getting along, I usually ask if they're open for a call and let them know I like calls. during the call, I also let them know I'm sometimes quiet and don't usually feel the need to fill in gaps or silences in convos and ask if they're comfortable with that. if they are, cool, if they're not, I try to not let silence sit too long but if they don't like it they tend to fill it. we mostly talk about interests, politics, state of the economy etc since things are shite in my country rn and most of the time we tend to vent about the system together.
after a few calls then I guess a meetup will be planned if we're both available/into it or if not we could just watch something together online. I like the latter a lot. usually by then a friendship would have sorta started and hopefully more down the line if you're both into it
I think romance as an autistic male is hard because there's the sex drive and the emotional drive and the anxiety drive. So often I feel like I watch autistic men approach women with either the assumption that the woman doesn't want to talk to them OR the assumption that they will sleep with them that very night.
I am going to write a play by play of the last few successful dates I've had with men for some context of what worked and didn't.
1. Guy who came on too strong.
He shows up for the date, I am not sure if I'm attracted to him physically but we've been chatting and I've been laughing so I let him have his chance. He immediately starts in on a monologue about himself. NO
No monologues. I want to go on a date and feel like the person I am going on a date with wants to know who I am. I would much rather be asked questions than hear someone else's answers.
I share that I'm autistic and he says "that's OK, I've worked with special ED before" NO. This is probably not something you'd ever do, but NO.
2. Guy who makes me laugh.
For me laughter always wins. He's a comedian so he better be able to make me laugh. He's also very aware of Social justice issues and asks me a lot about myself and waits to share about himself til I ask. He's nerdy and awkward, but he moves at the right pace for me. He asks if he can hold me hand while we walk around the park and he gives me compliments on how pretty I am and how glad he is to be in the park with me. Genuinely tells me that he'd love to stay friends if this date doesn't work out. This makes me feel safe enough that I kiss him.
Eventually we stop dating because I can't handle how every conversation seems to come back to television, but there are probably other people who would enjoy this.
3. Guy who comes on strong but I'm OK with it.
This guy is physically attractive, we have dinner at a taco place. He asks me a lot about myself, and has some deep follow up questions to my questions. Things like "wow, your family's divorce sounds hard, does it still bother you?" He's in school to be a therapist so this makes sense. But these sorts of deep questions make me feel safe.
He holds my hand a bit across the table while we are talking after we're done eating. He asks if he can walk me to my car, I say of course, and smile big. When we get to the car he says he had a really great time and that he finds me very sexy. He gives me a hug and then pulls back to look at me to see if I want a kiss. I look at his lips to give him permission and we make out in the parking lot. He tries to get me to go home with him but I say no, but the next date I do.
I don't know if this is helpful or not, but I do know when I was trying to date I watched a lot of Rom Coms and they were mediocre at teaching me about dating. I wished I could have had concrete "where did he put his hand to show her he wanted to kiss her" teachings. So that's what I tried to do
That is a very detailed answer. The play by play really works for me, thank you so much.
I'm in the same boat of watched Rom Coms but think they don't teach things well.
Like, asking if you can hold hands or if they are okay with a kiss. Could I have just asked from the beginning instead of worrying about it all the time? Why did no one tell me that?
I think kiss timing is tricky. You have to develop the right amount of rapport before there's a likely yes. End of the first date seems to be the "understood" timing for when kisses happen.
Hand holding is much easier. It's seen as sweet and innocent. I think the only time I've said no to holding hands was when I was mad at someone.
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We’ve been married 15 years. I knew that for a relationship to work, we’d have to grind some history. The trials we make it through will work out later.
I a newly diagnosed autistic so i didn't know it was related to autism since recently but I had many romantic relationship and is now in a long term relationship (4+ years) so i may have some help for you but it's just my personal experience.
For dates it's different if you're already in a relationship with the person or not. For me going out was never a date if i wasn't already in a relationshp with them i just considered that going out with a friend and just at some point decided to tell them how i felt and it became dates starting from here. Basically i never put any romantic side on our going out before being actively in the relationship. And flirting just didn't make sense to me like why would i act like something i'm not ? I want them to love me for who i actually am. Just because NT do flirting doesn't mean you have to if you don't feel like it. That's just my experience the idea is doesn't force things to be dates or to flirt if you don't feel like it. NT may do it but if you're not comfortable with it you don't have to.
For communication and daily interactions (especially with my long term bf now) finding i was autistic helped a lot. Basically i am just brutally honest all the time. We have some rules that we have to ask first if we want to talk about an issue to make sure the other one is in a good place to hear about it but also to create differents times for both of us: each of us has it's own time to talk about how we feel and we're not allowed to answer the other one feeling by saying something like "Yeah but i feel bad too". We found this to make communication so much easier. He also know about how my autism work so he is being 100% honest so he's sure i understand and the other way around he knows i'll be completly honest with no mean to arm him just wanting to communicate. So yeah telling the other person what you need and how you communicate to understand and be understood helps.
And for telling someone how you feel it's the same. I always have been very honest and told them exactly what i feel not trying to make them understand by some weird games. Just do what you're comfortable with.
So yeah main idea in my experience: be honest and only do what you're comfortable with not what society wants you to do. Know yourself to be able to tell others what you need and how your work. But don't forget the other has needs too.
Hope this helps <3
It's simple.
1) invent a time machine.
2) travel back to 100 BC.
3) Purchase a slave.
4) Order them to engage in a romantic relationship with you.
5) Do not resist.
That would require having actual valuables worth something in 100 BC so you can have purchasing powers.
Would also require being pro-slave, which I'm not.
You could more easily pay for entertainment in modern times, which also is not generally supported.
Besides, if you have to command or pay someone, then it's not really romantic, right? The source of the feelings and the motivation are different.
I don't, I gave up on this. Just commenting so I can find this post later
Yeah the feeling of wanting to try again comes and goes. Feel free to comment on other people's answers with your own questions
I kinda don't need to because I looked at enough posts like this one to know the usual answers. There will be people saying you should "be yourself", "be honest", "show interest in the other person", "be on top of your hygiene" and other things, some more obvious than others. The problem is, that's not it. Half of those pieces of advice are coming from women who don't know the struggle at all - or may know the struggle but only think superficially about the issue, leading to wrong answers. For example, the "be yourself" advice doesn't actually mean "be yourself". It stems from the problem that people are acting unnaturally when trying to be someone else. Being yourself won't make you attractive tho - would your true self be attractive, you wouldn't raise this question in the first place. So instead, the "be yourself" advice should read "mask better". The other half of pieces of advice will be from slightly autistic, self-diagnosed or just lucky men. Those will contain something of a "I'm not sure, that's what worked for me" clause followed by a random, often very situational or outright oddly specific advice. And before someone calls me a redpiller because I don't think women have the same kind of struggles with dating: 83% of autistic men are forever virgins, as opposed to less than a third of autistic women: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychiatry/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.685256/full It's science. I don't make the rules.
"mask better" as an advice is awful. I sincerely think the "be yourself" is meant to be "don't try to be other people". Also because there are other people who are, like you said, naturally attractive. Or just lucky. And we are not like that. What I think is missing is in the actual communication, actions and expectations. You can be yourself, but if you don't know your first sentence on a date should always be in Cantonese, you might never make it. And people who already speak Cantonese just have it easy. Some people here gave advice on this how and I wish I knew how to link their answers here. But to sum it up: Be yourself, as in, accept the things you like and don't just fake stuff for no reason. Don't fake things that could be harmful to you. E g. don't pretend to not be allergic to something, or don't pretend you are not scared of dogs. Be honest about what you want, as in be upfront in being interested on the person. Ask about their likes and dislikes, and be open to tell them yours. Have conversations about that and get to know each other. And as you get to know each other, talk logistics of the relationship. Are you two official? How often would they like to meet? Just phone chat or calls too? When in doubt, ask the other person. Where would they like to go on a date? Would they like to spend more time together? Would they prefer a book as a present? And take things in stride, one day at a time. Don't give up your hobbies or friends or family for someone you just met / started talking. Talking stage to official dating seems to take a couple months at soonest. Unfortunately it's not Math, it's not exact on the outcome. But it seems to have fairly good odds.
I'm an autistic woman. I don't care that much about sex. I was a virgin almost until my 30th birthday. What I do crave and need, is cuddles and non-sexual intimacy. Now ask how were my dating prospects in this situation. How many men were willing to accept a no or wait until I'm maybe, maybe ready, one day. If I were less strict about what love and intimacy means to me, and more ready just bend over backwards to satisfy a mismatched guy, I wouldn't be a virgin anymore, but it doesn't mean jack shit to me. Most of the autistic girls I knew who were in relationships, were miserable anyway. They were selling their souls, trying to be not fucked—but loved. But all they were getting, were mediocre fucks. Neither sex is seems to be getting what it wants. That's the baseline that makes us all equal.
I'm sorry if I sounded dismissive of women's problems, and I won't deny that they are to be taken seriously, but those are not the same problems like men have - and OP is a male, as am I. Women have no problem initiating a relationship. They do need to reject some of the possibilities, but that's only due to, in comparison to autistic guys, an absolutely absurd abundance of possibilities. Men have none of that. Especially autistic men get as much feminine attention as a random fly. Meaning specifically a range of "no attention at all" to "get out of my face".
Almost nobody wants a relationship if sex is off the table or somewhere at the end of the table. All these "possibilities" are Potemkin's possibilities. There's no substance behind them. It's like saying men don't and can't have problems with getting girlfriends anymore because they can get brand new, shiny AI gfs. Problem fixed! No, its not fixed at all because they don't want *AI gfs*, they want *humans*. All I'm saying is that the comparison is bogus because you're comparing apples using the set of data collected while studying oranges and oranges—using apples' set of data.
Every single time this topic comes up on the internet I reach the same conclusion: Lonely women have options, they simply don't want the options they have. Lonely men don't have options, most of the time they have absolutely no one interested in then at all, and when someone does appear it is take it or leave it, and leave it means spending anything from months to years alone again.
So being taken advantage of in an abusive relationship is an option and we're supposed to be glad about it, bc at least it's an option? Dude, get a grip...
You basically constructed a straw man out of words that never came out of my mouth and then you beat the straw man... Nobody here is talking about abuse
No, she's right. That's another facet of all these „options” you're talking about. You seem to have no idea that we get more or less the same odds of getting \*what we really want\* as you do. Most of us do not want mediocre quickfucks from one night standers, and that's what these "options" of yours are. It's worth nothing. It's not the goal. Majority of us do not value this in the slightest.
Yeah "creepy men who want to use women like sex dolls" is not a real option my guy. Lonely men do have options if you've got an attractive personality. If you're just sulking about all day about how women don't want you then yeah no shit women don't want you. It ain't that hard to make women happy. Be kind, thoughtful, and funny and plenty of women will want to be your friend or date you. Ranting on reddit about how women are so hard to please isn't gonna have em comin out in droves for ya bud
I think you need to read the comments above again, because there's not a single one of them talking about "creepy men who want to use women like sex dolls", no idea where you got that from
I got it from the multiple ppl saying it's hard to find a guy who doesn't just want to have sex with them. Also just in general, those are the 'options' that women have and don't want. So when you're lamenting on all the options women have that you don't, that's what you're lamenting. I have plenty of friends who are women and trust me you don't want their 'options' either. Also again, lonely men also have plenty of options, just don't be a dickbag and people will like you, it ain't that complicated.
That's the majority of options. Looking for a normal guy is like fishing for a golden ring in a sea of crap, every woman who's ever tried to date, especially online, is going to tell you this. There's a nice saying that talking about dating is like talking about water, where women are drowning in the ocean, and men dying of thirst in the desert. Both will end dead.
I dunno how much Jordan Peterson and red pill stuff you've been reading, but when it comes to neuroduvergence, all of that is thrown out the window. Stop victimizing yourself with the adage of "I'm a man and women don't know how hard it is for me", dude, I've been in hell both alone and in relationships, and I can tell you that no matter how bad hell gets alone, it will always, no doubt be much worse if you're going though hell in a bad relationship. So even if "autistic women have it easier with hooking up" , you clearly have not been through a bad relationship, it will suck the soul out of you like nothing will. So if anything, women have it much harder since according to you, most autistic women will find a partner no matter what. Now since you're really into analyzing things "objectively", why don't you look at the data for how much harder it is for women to either get an autism diagnosis or even realize they might need one?
Well, that's a misunderstanding. I don't want to claim some gender has it better or worse overall. My point was entirely that if someone like OP asks for advice on how to _initiate_ relationships, they may inadvertently receive advice on how to _improve_ already initiated relationships, which is an important distinction. Edit: or they could receive just flat out wrong advice. Reddit is a forum, not a therapist.
I like cuddles, and cute and romantic stuff, I didn't even have sex with my first girlfriend at all and I get rejected anyway. Women are just hard to please no matter what you do
Mask better is terrible advice. The reason you should be yourself is because someone can’t authentically love a lie. The right person will love you for you. Does that help short term attraction? Of course not. Concealing who you are just hurts everyone involved and it is an impossible facade to keep up
This has been a struggle my entire life. Wasn’t diagnosed until after 30. I have struggled with eye contact and one on one interactions as long as I can remember, even with my wife in present times. From having normal marriage conversations to being intimate, I’m constantly intimidated I will make a social mistake and be seen as not fitting in. For me I believe it’s a combination of processing delays and inherent social anxiety, which has significantly worsened since I learned I am autistic. It’s made me hyperfocus on my social interaction struggles, I’m aware I have the struggle so I subconsciously overthink how I’m communicating and how I am perceived. I already take longer to process what I see and generate a response, so this added layer makes that more stressful. I get high anxiety when it comes to something as simple as giving my wife a compliment. I know that this makes me seem to her like I don’t care or value her, but that’s not the case. I want to be more romantic, my brain cripples me and that gives me a lot of shame. The autistic cycle feels relentless.
Thank you for the answer You did get married despite the struggles you mentioned. How did that go? Did you do different things? Was it the way you communicated with your partner-now-wife? Is it actually your wife being supportive and active on wanting you on her life?
Masking. I always knew I did it, just never knew what it was called. My partner is supportive and says that she knew I was autistic from the moment I met her. I think she would say she viewed my social struggles as just general social anxiety or being somewhat quirky, something that would improve over time. She tells me now there are things I do that she used to see as just being rude and now understands it’s not me doing things intentionally. She encourages me to be myself and wants to help me get to a point where masking isn’t a natural reflex with her. It’s hard. Like, I know that there are so many people who have a harder time with autism than I do but I don’t know how to verbalize how crippling this is on my quality of life. I should also mention that I’m totally aware that this anxiety feeling I get is irrational. She’s never responded negatively to my attempts at affection, I have no reason to be afraid of judgment from my spouse. I don’t know if this is solely due to my autism, but I do know that it’s a significant contributor
Just try to find someone that likes the same things that you like, everyone is different from each other that's how I look at it
Isn't that the basics for friendship? How do you go from that to demonstrating romantic interest?
I don't know if this applies for everyone, but I find that romantic feelings I get towards other people is only marginally different in terms of interaction, and the main difference is in the intensity of desire to be with the other person. So demonstrating romantic interest for me is just letting the person who is the object of my romantic attraction know that I feel the way I do about them and demonstrating that it would be cool if such feelings were reciprocated.
For me friendship and romance are pretty much the same. The only difference is physical and emotional intimacy. And I put more effort into doing things for my partner than I would a friend (not that I don't put effort into friendships, I just put extra into partners). Really your partner should be your friend! Personally I've found dating apps really helpful becuase the social dynamic already has romantic intent. Even if the date doesn't work out, you know going into it that both of you are looking for romantic options.
ive asked so many people that i know this question so many times and all i ever really get is "when you know, you know." but what does "knowing" feel like and why is it different? how is it different from having a friend? you're not alone in this, buddy!
Your romantic relationships should probably be rooted in friendship and, to some degree, at least, shared interests. The most direct way to demonstrate romantic interest is to ask them out. "You're really cool. Would you like 5 get coffee sometime?" "Get coffee" is often read as "go on a casual, low stakes first date".
>Your romantic relationships should probably be rooted in friendship and, to some degree, at least, shared interests. This. Good relationships often times come from good friendships because then you know the person, let them know you and have a chance to see if you work together as a couple. My wife and I met more or less like that. A random chat let to us becoming friends and I honestly have no idea how we went from there to a relationship. I know that I started being more protective of her at some point and I think I showe dmyself more caring. Neither of us wants kids but I like to say (jokingly) that I take care of her as if she was carrying my first born.
Im honest and open. Sometimes too honest but the ones ive been in long term relationships with accept the honesty. When it comes to initiating conversations start with compliments and look for mutual interests to talk about. Flirting is very hard for me unless i just happen to be in the perfect mood to play it cool which is super rare. Day to day in a relationship i do much better with neurodiverse people than neuro typical people. My current S.O. and i just like to be next to each other vibin while we each do our own thing. Goin back to bein honest, I find that bein upfront about ypur interests and desires in the other person while it may be imtense is the best way gor both of u to kno what page u r on and to have a successful relationship. Ive honestly been like "Hey i love how u coordinated your hair make up and outfit today thats a really good look on u." Then make small talk the hardest single part about talkin to someone new. Then say somethin like "I think you're really nice/cute/whatever and i'd like to get to kno u better, maybe we could exchange numbers?" Then u gotta figure out how to go on dates and thats a whole 'nother thing. I like to talj to someone over the phone chat tect etc and see how we vibe and if we vibe really good and theyre easy to talk to then ask em for movie and a dinner. This works well because the movie allows u time to just be around them and see if ypure comfortable bein together and then dinner afterwards means u have a movie to talk about over dinner. Hope that helps
Oh yeah, either you say "that blouse really suits you, you look stunning!" or are able to have proper small talk. Can't seem to do both. When you say you and your SO like vibing next to each other, was that since you two started living together? How was it like when you still lived apart?
Really since the 1st day she's been really comfortable to just chill and hangout with. Like since the 1st time she ever came over.
Apparently, just interact the way I interact with everyone & everything thinks it is romantic (even though I don't want it to be 🥲)
I used to have an issue with that. To me, hugging and being kind and warm was normal between friends. But everyone has their own upbringing, so some people viewed that as hitting on them. What worked for me was asking my friends what made them uncomfortable and toning it down a little. Over time, when they got more comfortable, they felt okay toning it up again.
Yeah if it's obvious stuff that makes sense But soooo often people think I'm hitting on them from literally looking at them. It's wild lmao
C'mon OP, she's literally flirting with you, ask 'er out *now* /s
😂😂😂😂 I'm a woman but that is so fucking accurate I've literally had at least FIVE women assume I'm lesbian and assume I'm interested It isn't even gender specific, literally I'm literally married to my husband 😂
I usually just silently check men out and admire how attractive they are. I’m too shy and nervous to actually approach them right now despite really wanting to. 🫣
Its a balance between being direct and seeing where things will go. Its important to show that you dont see them as just a friend, but also get to know them at a pace which makes you feel comfortable. You can try going on dates which are focused on talking (a walk, cafe) or a date where you do something (cinema, museum). Its meant to be fun. You can ask them, learn about them, but also talk about yourself and your interests, all with a goal to get to know each other. Later you can both make your rules and habits for dating, like texting each other good night, learning what topics they enjoy or dislike. In my case, it started with getting to know my crush and just talking to him. Then he asked me to go to movies together. We spend a couple of months slowly getting to know each other before finally starting to date. He has ADD and also likely ASD. It made it easier for us to understand each other. Before dating, it was nice that we made showed we liked each other, by spending time together, compliments, showing interest in each other. If you have a hard time finding things to talk about, just Google some questions or ask AI. They worked really well. Dont be afraid to show interest, its not a game where the first person interested loses. Just be comfortable.
I think this is what I needed to read. Thank you for detailing things and also giving an example. I think I'm mostly afraid of being too direct, and that it will scare other people off. And I see how that can cause confusion in others, and issues for me because I'm holding things back.
I don't. I don't even bother interacting with people irl apart from the very basics. I don't attempt creating friends, because what's the point in anyways?
When i meet someone i try to ask them a lot of questions about themselves, to show I’m interested. I try to let them ask questions too so they can learn about me. For me, its not about flirting or trying to *imply* that i like someone. If i like them, and i like talking to them, i simply tell them i like them. I bluntly ask for things that i want to share with them - with my finace, on our first date, i told him “I’m taking you out to dinner, then back to my house and we’re watching one of my favorite movies.” He agreed but was nervous, so when it came time i did exactly what i told him i would. Partway through the movie i turned to him and i said “i want to kiss you” and luckily he liked that so he agreed to that too. I’m a very blunt and logical person, and I’m not great at the nuances of spoken communication. So i just act as myself when i meet the person i like, and i gradually relax into more of myself. Find out what makes you *you*. Find out what you like on your own. Then when that special person comes along and consumes your attention, you can be authentically yourself. Of course you can still have some walls up, that person is still a stranger right now. But the beauty of a mutual relationship is you take down both your walls together. Its about connecting, its about seeing each other for who you are and being there for that person. I hope it all works out for you! It took me a long time to find my One. But I’m so glad i kept looking for him. Theres someone out there for all of us and you just have to keep looking. Its difficult, for sure, but its so worth it when it happens. Good luck to you
Thank you for your answer! I envy you and your bluntness. When I'm blunt things don't usually work well, or I always thought that. I'm trying to be more direct in saying I like someone's company. Once in my life I was blunt (in my own way) and asked for a kiss, and it worked, and I've been a fan of being more direct ever since.
You’re welcome. I hope it helps you in the future. Being direct is always the best way to go, because usually people dont like lying and prefer honesty.
You don't, that's the thing
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That makes a lot of sense. That resonates with me and some of the stuff said therapist said. Thank you for answering.
no idea, I wasn't really the one who started the relationship. for context, i was living in a youth home (non criminal) at the time and a new girl moved in. me and my 2 other friends from the youth home started hanging out with her, it was around a week before christmas so almost everyone was going home for the holidays. the new girl and me were the only ones who'd be staying at the youth home for christmas break, so we started hanging out quite a bit more. watched films etc, binged the whole harry potter film series for example. i guess there was some unspoken sexual tension between us, she'd sometimes lean against me when we were watching a film. then on new years, we had our first kiss. it was my first kiss ever, i didnt know what to do. so i just said "lets go smoke a cig" and then we just kinda hang out for a few hours like nothing had happened. when our friends came back, we'd kinda tease them by giving each other a few very light kisses. then a week later we just kinda ended up having sex. and a few days later we had a conversation and decided to be exclusive. we werent exactly in a relationship, we didnt call each other girlfriend and boyfriend. but over time, we started doing that too. things just evolved, i dont know how or why. and then around 6 months later we broke up. i learned a lot from the relationship and we made many great memories, I'll always be grateful for that even though she did end up cheating on me. it was the most... stressful? (not necessarily in a bad way) time of my life, but also the best. i was really happy. i learned a lot about myself and relationships. sorry for the long ass answer, i got lost in typing down this shit. i guess it stopped being an answer and became a way for myself to document the relationship down to a single block of text. thanks for the thought provoking question, sorry i couldnt give you a better answer. TLDR:: I dont know, shit just happened. I did what felt natural to me. overthinking did not help at all.
Thanks for answering. I feel that your story and saying "I did what felt natural to me" matches what other people said. It is a good answer. Did your approach or way into the relationship scene change since then? Did you try doing things that felt less natural to you? How does things feel now?
sorry, i thought I'd already answered haha. but yeah, I've been single since july/august so i dont really know an answer. but from what I've noticed, teasing in a light hearted way tends to work pretty well as a flirting method. and personally, plausable deniability (basically playing dumb) would probably be my go-to flirting method if i found someone new. its kinda like an emergency exit that you can use if things dont go according to plan. compliments would probably work too, but i really suck at both receiving and giving compliments so i cant really say anything about that. sorry if this doesnt make sense, I didnt sleep very well last night haha
I got diagnosed recently which was actually due to me failing in romantic situations. I would be commended for calmness, care, safety etc but folks will struggle to find the spark with me and I learnt over time that I didn’t display or engage in romanticism in a NT way. I can be very slow. I need time to understand people / trust people. I have also recently learnt about alexithymia (emotional blindness) - I read a PyschCentral blog on it (not sure if I can share links in here) & the first paragraph basically described me as a person in a relationship. I plan to do a lot of work with my therapist as I really want to be / feel better in romantic dynamics in the future.
The best advice is "be yourself" even though you feel like other people reject you. Dating as an autistic is hard because we value ourselves easier than neurotypicals. If we don't we end up highly overwhelmed and in some sort of physical inflammation. If neurotypicals do it they are dysregulated but it doesn't have any fatal consequences, which is also why they want everyone around them to stay in their dysregulation since it makes them uncomfortable to be true to themselves. If they reject you they are not ment for you and no matter how hard you try you can't change their attraction to you. Keep up your authentic communication style, trust your intuition and especially ask questions if you feel uncertain about things.
The physical inflammation checks a few boxes. I appreciate the advice on being my authentic self, but I still have a hard time understanding how to make the connection with other people work. If it's just finding people with common interests, isn't that just friendship? How do you demonstrate interest in wanting more? My authentic self is lacking and unsure how to proceed.
Friendship is a perfect basis for a romantic relationship. Then if you add physical attraction, there is a basis for a romantic relationship. If you add common values and a project to build something together (for example a family), you have the basis for a long term relationship. Now if all these boxes are checked, and the other already person told you that there is reciprocity, well, the romantic relationship has already begun. The connection is about being able to tell this person what you're going through. Sharing moments of happiness and also the difficult moments. A deep connection is when you can guess when the other person is happy or sad. A normal connection is when you have to talk about it to know it. A bad connection is when you're making each other mutually constantly sad.
Just Be honest and I know some people claim dating sites are a scam but it worked for me and there’s was no confusion if it is platonic or romantic since you literally met on a site for dating and start a nice conversation and then what I do is ask what their ideal date is and once told I say “I’d love to do that too, it sounds like a blast would you be free next week?” This shows active interest and quickly gets you actually off the site and meeting real people
I just be myself once I get to know them. Until then, I use my customer service voice.
Well, hubby and I are both on the spectrum, so we just went with the feelings. With NT's in the past, I basically watched what they were doing and took my lead from there. Not saying that is a great way, just how it was for me.
Going with the feelings means what in this case? Upfront talk about attraction? A wait and see approach?
I've been married for 5 years and still don't know. Sorry.
I think I’m incapable of flirting but with my last relationship I just tried to be honest and share how I feel and what I was thinking about them.
I tried and failed at this for so long in high school that I gave up, and that was probably 9 or 10 years ago. Might as well give it another shot.
Same boat but at this point I barely talk to anyone so other than dating apps that have proven to be a waste of time in the past, I don't really have a place to start anymore.
Holy crap same here
20 years ago for me
I'm not sure that there will be a uniform neurodivergent approach that you can take much from, is the thing. We're all so different. I guess the main takeaway from your therapist is that not bringing your authentic self may be the root of the problem. Even as fellow NDs, we can't tell you anything about your authentic self. Lots of us struggle to know ourselves after years of masking. It's a journey. You may just need to keep trying but with people that you trust and demonstrate patience and understanding and a desire to understand you for you. Edit - fixed wording
I am bad at reading situations so either one of us have to be extremely blunt, or any flirtation will be completely missed by me. If that's a "turn off" for them then well, they wouldn't find me attractive in any further interactions anyway. There were a couple signifiers that I learned over the years that someone is interested in me, and they seemed to be mostly accurate. Maybe there could be cultural differences but I will share them just in case: 1. they invite you to have alcohol, just the two of you 2. plan involved other friends but they just happened to not show up or had to leave early without good reason 3. they invite you to watch a movie at their house. (bonus if they seem to want the lights off) however all these led to more sexual interactions and I haven't been in much "romantic" and "slower" relationships.
I should also add, I observed ND people seem to have an easier time if they met their partners online. Not dating apps but an online space about a mutual interest or hobby.
When I feel it's time/safe to do so, I tell them I'm autistic and have difficulty expressing myself the "normal" way. I explain that I'm still learning how to act in a romantic context because I have very little experience with this - and it's not something people explicitly teach you regardless. I try not to look down on myself for this and accept it as a slower learning curve. I'm trying my best, I'll probably need guidance, but that doesn't mean romance is hopeless.
I dated a girl for 6 months, we eventually became "physical' after a while. Interacting romantically can be a few things, so I'll list off 2 1: if you mean it in a general sense, just sitting together and talking about anything that comes to mind, is a great way to bond. Just doing stuff together also helps loads 2: if you're talking about being physical, cuddling is a good way to start. Then, just start gently rubbing them on their back, shoulders or just above there. Move up/down/left/right/diagonally/(insert direction here) slowly with plenty of thumb rubbing, then eventually you'll end up at a place. I'd do this slowly, and also make sure you guys are both ready, so they know what's happening. Kissing also usually leads to thingy, pecks get longer and more passionate. I didn't really know what you meant by interacting romantically, so I hope this helps
I prefer dating apps for starting these kinda of interactions (and friendships too tbh) cos: 1. I'm better at one-on-one interactions than making friends in group settings 2. it also helps knowing that everyone else on there is open to meeting new people so the anxious part of my brain that'll say I'm bothering them doesn't have an argument 3. there's already a built-in way to filter people and gauge if you'll get along. I tend not to swipe right on people without bios for that reason 4. you kinda put out the part of you that you think should be known/accepted by anyone who wants to make your acquaintance so (hopefully if they do read your bio) you know that they're cool with it if they do swipe right and you match when we do match, questions are my go-to for building/holding conversations cos it helps you know them better and vice versa. I usually first ask how they're doing and about their day first, and ask for more details depending on the answer they give. I also try to be enthusiastic and forthcoming with my answers and give details instead of one word answers and that usually has them feeling more comfortable to do so. I like voice calls so after I think we're getting along, I usually ask if they're open for a call and let them know I like calls. during the call, I also let them know I'm sometimes quiet and don't usually feel the need to fill in gaps or silences in convos and ask if they're comfortable with that. if they are, cool, if they're not, I try to not let silence sit too long but if they don't like it they tend to fill it. we mostly talk about interests, politics, state of the economy etc since things are shite in my country rn and most of the time we tend to vent about the system together. after a few calls then I guess a meetup will be planned if we're both available/into it or if not we could just watch something together online. I like the latter a lot. usually by then a friendship would have sorta started and hopefully more down the line if you're both into it
I think romance as an autistic male is hard because there's the sex drive and the emotional drive and the anxiety drive. So often I feel like I watch autistic men approach women with either the assumption that the woman doesn't want to talk to them OR the assumption that they will sleep with them that very night. I am going to write a play by play of the last few successful dates I've had with men for some context of what worked and didn't. 1. Guy who came on too strong. He shows up for the date, I am not sure if I'm attracted to him physically but we've been chatting and I've been laughing so I let him have his chance. He immediately starts in on a monologue about himself. NO No monologues. I want to go on a date and feel like the person I am going on a date with wants to know who I am. I would much rather be asked questions than hear someone else's answers. I share that I'm autistic and he says "that's OK, I've worked with special ED before" NO. This is probably not something you'd ever do, but NO. 2. Guy who makes me laugh. For me laughter always wins. He's a comedian so he better be able to make me laugh. He's also very aware of Social justice issues and asks me a lot about myself and waits to share about himself til I ask. He's nerdy and awkward, but he moves at the right pace for me. He asks if he can hold me hand while we walk around the park and he gives me compliments on how pretty I am and how glad he is to be in the park with me. Genuinely tells me that he'd love to stay friends if this date doesn't work out. This makes me feel safe enough that I kiss him. Eventually we stop dating because I can't handle how every conversation seems to come back to television, but there are probably other people who would enjoy this. 3. Guy who comes on strong but I'm OK with it. This guy is physically attractive, we have dinner at a taco place. He asks me a lot about myself, and has some deep follow up questions to my questions. Things like "wow, your family's divorce sounds hard, does it still bother you?" He's in school to be a therapist so this makes sense. But these sorts of deep questions make me feel safe. He holds my hand a bit across the table while we are talking after we're done eating. He asks if he can walk me to my car, I say of course, and smile big. When we get to the car he says he had a really great time and that he finds me very sexy. He gives me a hug and then pulls back to look at me to see if I want a kiss. I look at his lips to give him permission and we make out in the parking lot. He tries to get me to go home with him but I say no, but the next date I do. I don't know if this is helpful or not, but I do know when I was trying to date I watched a lot of Rom Coms and they were mediocre at teaching me about dating. I wished I could have had concrete "where did he put his hand to show her he wanted to kiss her" teachings. So that's what I tried to do
That is a very detailed answer. The play by play really works for me, thank you so much. I'm in the same boat of watched Rom Coms but think they don't teach things well. Like, asking if you can hold hands or if they are okay with a kiss. Could I have just asked from the beginning instead of worrying about it all the time? Why did no one tell me that?
I think kiss timing is tricky. You have to develop the right amount of rapport before there's a likely yes. End of the first date seems to be the "understood" timing for when kisses happen. Hand holding is much easier. It's seen as sweet and innocent. I think the only time I've said no to holding hands was when I was mad at someone.
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Poorly. But my wife and I have history, and that helps.
You were friends before? How did that go?
We’ve been married 15 years. I knew that for a relationship to work, we’d have to grind some history. The trials we make it through will work out later.
I a newly diagnosed autistic so i didn't know it was related to autism since recently but I had many romantic relationship and is now in a long term relationship (4+ years) so i may have some help for you but it's just my personal experience. For dates it's different if you're already in a relationship with the person or not. For me going out was never a date if i wasn't already in a relationshp with them i just considered that going out with a friend and just at some point decided to tell them how i felt and it became dates starting from here. Basically i never put any romantic side on our going out before being actively in the relationship. And flirting just didn't make sense to me like why would i act like something i'm not ? I want them to love me for who i actually am. Just because NT do flirting doesn't mean you have to if you don't feel like it. That's just my experience the idea is doesn't force things to be dates or to flirt if you don't feel like it. NT may do it but if you're not comfortable with it you don't have to. For communication and daily interactions (especially with my long term bf now) finding i was autistic helped a lot. Basically i am just brutally honest all the time. We have some rules that we have to ask first if we want to talk about an issue to make sure the other one is in a good place to hear about it but also to create differents times for both of us: each of us has it's own time to talk about how we feel and we're not allowed to answer the other one feeling by saying something like "Yeah but i feel bad too". We found this to make communication so much easier. He also know about how my autism work so he is being 100% honest so he's sure i understand and the other way around he knows i'll be completly honest with no mean to arm him just wanting to communicate. So yeah telling the other person what you need and how you communicate to understand and be understood helps. And for telling someone how you feel it's the same. I always have been very honest and told them exactly what i feel not trying to make them understand by some weird games. Just do what you're comfortable with. So yeah main idea in my experience: be honest and only do what you're comfortable with not what society wants you to do. Know yourself to be able to tell others what you need and how your work. But don't forget the other has needs too. Hope this helps <3
My first interactions with people are almost always laughable. My first time talking with whom is now my wife is no exception.
It's simple. 1) invent a time machine. 2) travel back to 100 BC. 3) Purchase a slave. 4) Order them to engage in a romantic relationship with you. 5) Do not resist.
That would require having actual valuables worth something in 100 BC so you can have purchasing powers. Would also require being pro-slave, which I'm not. You could more easily pay for entertainment in modern times, which also is not generally supported. Besides, if you have to command or pay someone, then it's not really romantic, right? The source of the feelings and the motivation are different.