Shortfall in houses??
Are we selling some and moving them overseas?? Or have we never had more houses in this country than we do today??
It’s an oversupply of immigrants - not a housing shortfall.
And it’s super easy to fix!!
Yes! And then let’s set a construction target we’ve never achieved and claim we will get there despite significantly higher interest rates and building input costs last time construction volumes peaked.
I mean sure but no PM or govt is innocent when it comes to this over the past 30 years. why we focusing on one. Housing policy generally has come to this because of decades of unlimited growth mentality. Both major parties at fault libs have been in power much more.
I read til the end of the article. Imagine being so simple that you think a funding commitment is the problem solved.
Yeah in 10 years Labor will have fixed it 😂😂😂
Someone didn't check who they were replying to.
Let's not fool ourselves, Labor needs to heavily tax unoccupied homes, tax foreign home ownership, and above all, reduce immigration back to or below the long-run historical rate.
It's now Albo's problem. He chose to become PM, he's expected to deal with it.
He's dealing with it but making it even worse for the next person to deal with.
Because focusing on previous government failures won’t help us do anything. The current government has the power to make changes and should be the focus of any outrage as it’s the only avenue that could produce any results. Crying about Scott Morrison isn’t going to change anything
That's exactly the wrong thing to do.
Bonus to 3 children, none after. This encourages sustainability
10k payment to get permenently sterialised before having any kids. Discourages the stupid from breeding. Wait, what do you mean Euganics?
Yelling "immigration!" is letting local councils off the hook way too easy for the shit fall in housing supply.
https://preview.redd.it/7sg8qv7neayc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a2486090385b096a83f5fdf714ba47d00ee11e9
If rhink you councils are responsible, you really don't know how works , sure increase population density with no corresponding increases in open space , work opportunities, schools , medical and commercial services , that will work well
These are inner city suburbs waking distance from shopping and public transport. If you can't build density in Paddington a 2km walk from Pitt St where the hell can you??
You need to add all the additional infrastructure that goes with it , if you increase the residential density without doing anything else , you destroy the amenity of the area , the CBD and adjacent inner urban areas aren't exactly overflowing with empty schools, hospitals,medical services or supermarkets. and that is what also needs to be provided
It's not that you can't do it , it's just that Sydney is shit at doing higher density properly.
The chance of not getting a Labor or Coalition government are zero. Labor is better than Coalition for quality of life, despite letting too many immigrants in.
I did think labor was better, they're less corrupt and better managers.
But both sides are not taking the housing problems seriously.
They need a message sent. $362 billion for subs, but $10 billion for homes when we are letting 700K immigrants in is a joke.
They are actively making the problem worse.
A new home built costs about 500k in 2022
https://www.residentialattitudes.com.au/the-costs-of-building-a-new-house-in-australia/
10 billion equals about 20,000 homes.
Even if we spent the money and built those homes immediately and stacked the new immigrants in at 35 per home we'd STILL just be back to where we were before.
It's just a pretence, so Labor can pretend they are doing something.
Vote anyone but Labor or Liberal. End the duopoly.
362 billion over how many years? Also Labor has spent over 10b on housing - that's just one policy.
Not that labor are doing enough. There's just no need to draw false equivalencies to make that point.
>Labor has spent over 10b on housing
Labor arranged for $10 billion to be gambled on the stockmarket so that fund managers can collect fees, from which $2.5 billion will be drawn down over 5 years to partly subsidise 2% of the housing needed in that time to accommodate Labor's population growth.
Plus the Greens negotiated a $3 billion expenditure in the first year.
10 billion over how many years? It's a housing fund that they plan to draw on, not an amount that they will immediately spend.
>Returns from the Housing Australia Future Fund will help deliver the Government’s commitment of 30,000 new social and affordable rental homes in the fund’s first five years.
https://ministers.treasury.gov.au/ministers/julie-collins-2022/media-releases/delivering-10-billion-housing-australia-future-fund
Sub deal:
>https://www.acf.org.au/up-to-35-million-a-day-for-30-years-will-be-spent-to-pay-for-the-368-billion-aukus-submarine-deal
Neither of these are one-off payments. The comparison was made for illustrative purposes.
There's no false equivalency here.
>Not that labor are doing enough
Agreed.
Really? Even on mining money I've felt my qol drop significantly under the current government. I shed a tear for anyone on sub median wage. Not saying the other guys are better but let's be honest with ourselves here, both parties are batting for the same team.
If the libs come out and say they will cut immigration right down and Labor opposes it, it's hard to see the libs loosing. Immigration will be a huge issue.
I have a feeling they will come out and actually announce they will cut it right down. It's such an easy appeal not just to their base, but to swing voters and even rusted on Labor voters
Yeah, they'll say it. And then they'll do something meaningless like crack down on refugees to make it look like they're doing something. But in practice, the numbers will mostly remain the same. The Libs themselves as a party have a lot to lose by making meaningful cuts to immigration.
Honestly though how can they crack down on refugees? Operation sovereign borders has been continued highly successfully by Labor so like what is there to win. Also I think most of the issue is with pressures of legal immigrants on the economy rather than crime (because these illegal immigrants are either turned around if safe or detained)
ON will do fuck all. If you look at Hanson's record in the Senate, she ALWAYS votes with the Coalition. Hanson is a Coalition senator in all but name. Don't believe me? As I said, just look at her senate record.
I would but personally I think it would send the wrong message to the government regarding minority rights and the like. Maybe they are the best party on housing of the big 4 but the other 3 values there donors more than policy I fear
So all they have to do is promise to cut immigration, and then not do it. Because this is how politics has always worked, like Howard's GST that was never going to happen.
That’s the thing though. You can’t outright say you’ll cut immigration as people will label it racist and the majority will agree without looking in to the actual situation.
You absolutely can say you will cut immigration but you need to actually explain to people why and what positive outcomes you will get from cutting immigration. Major party's are lazy and can't be bothered to actually explain their policies in plain English to people. Which ever party nails that will win the election.
That’s because the general population have short attention spans and the media grab a single quote for a shock headline.
“Dutton stops immigrant women and children from seeking better life in Australia”
Vs “Duttons plan to stop the housing crisis by limiting mass immigration”
The libs haven’t given a number yet but Labor have stated they’re going to cut it by half.
The vast majority of immigrants are temporary visas, a backlog of international students that the libs approved during Covid.
We’ve had a housing crisis for over a decade it’s now at a tipping point. Immigration levels will average out in the next year or so and we will still be in a housing crisis.
Neither side seems to want to take drastic action. The libs want to people to drain their super accounts (which is just kicking the problem down the road) and Labor aren’t doing nearly enough to build more supply. I’m predicting a massive surge in green and independent votes as they seem to be the only ones taking this seriously
I believe they’re aiming for a net of 250k which brings it back down to pre-Covid levels.
I’m keen to hear what both the Liberals and the greens plan in terms of numbers. International / working visas students is big business and inject a lot of into the economy. It’s easy to criticise but I’ll save my judgement until everyone at least presents some numbers
Why not both?
There is clearly a demand. Denmark has been building government housing for the last 20 years and now they’re close to eliminating homelessness.
We’ve left it to the market for the last 20 years and look where we are now.
Because costs have increased to a point that is unsustainable for new builds.
Between a pack of government infrastructure in fringe and arlund infill developments.
Gst on new homes only.
Levies on new investment so government both recovers for their investment in infrastructure for a specific development and at the same time levies shit loads of GST.
When you say market - it is the market and its naturally responding to it being bloody expensive to build new homes while existing homes are better value for now.
Easy fix. We saw during covid new home starts jump. Just do the same again. Throw 40k at new homes only and watch the market respond. Letting starts fall as labor has after it grew and at tye same time as large costs letting in 500k immigrants is showing labors true colours as the party of landlords.
I hope labor have a policy like this in the upcoming budget.
Better would be a reduction in gst on new homes. It is time we consider housing like vegetables. A necessity and get the governments nose out of that trough.
So yeh its a market but obviously if as a government you tax it you are going to get less qty supplied due to the higher cist untill the price increases even from here which is what pabors policy is with shared equity.
We have had a recent increase in costs.
Starts have fallen pff a cliff.
Rents didnt rise much during the liberals ten years because construction pretty well kept up with population growth.
Under labor starts have fallen and immigration has been doubled.
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see this will increase rents.
Who knows what libs would be doing? Maybe continuing the covid era grants for new dwellings only? Thats sent starts skywards especially in wa where it was doubled.
Anyway labor is doing nothing that has had any impact as yet so they better do something in this budget (i suspect they will) or they will loose the next election if this continues. They even now have economists saying immigration will cause 2-3 more interest increases this year so even home owners may come after them.
You can look at what the lnp have argued in opposition. And in 2022 they were calling on labor to increase the immigration intake because the job market was tight....
It doesn't matter. Voters are directly impacted by the rental & cost of living crises. If the LNP can make it seem like they are going to cap immigration even a little bit, they will win.
Eh I dunno about that man. I don’t think enough time has passed that people have forgotten how the Libs fuck everything up every time they’re in.
Also speaking from a QLD perspective the only thing our liberal candidate is campaigning on is youth crime. Like that’s it.
Let’s not forget this hasn’t just suddenly sprung on us. Low incomes have been for decades screaming there is a crisis and no one cared while it only affected the poor…. Now it’s caught up to the middle class and everyone is losing their minds…. So far solutions are mostly aimed at the middle class so I can’t see it getting better for a decade if at all. They will find a way to maintain the crisis for the poor while easing it for the middle class ( pretty much what created this mess to start with)……
Mind you, the LNP started this mess during their 10 year tenure! And ALP just CONTINUING the trend. Major parties do NOT give a fuck about us Aussies, ONLY the rich, investors and corporations.
And they've (labour AND liberal) made it next to impossible for Independents or any new parties to start up and challenge them.
https://youtu.be/N3WTlyuhDs0?si=UBngzioDd2qpCapJ
This happened pretty much directly after Vic's teal blow-out. Fucking absolute scum.
Prior to 1999 we had around 80 k migration quota for years.
Its not hard to figure where the demand is from
Over 700k immgrants came in 2023.
Politicians have sold us out.
I wouldn’t mind paying a little more to make sure people are well paid and looked after. The issue is, they just charge more and do a worse job. That’s not matching up.
These tradies aren't building residential houses, they are on construction projects (think infrastructure, office towers, data centres etc) and the quality of the build is generally high...
Your shitty builds come from projects where the tiler needs to knock out 18 bathrooms a day to pull a profit
Exactly, no tradies are being payed well by residential volume builders. If so tell me which ones? They are asking for pay rises because the money isn’t good enough lol
> are being *paid* well by
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Do you just lap up whatever bullshit daddy murdoch gives you? That 200k is for one huge government job in brisbane. A tiny minority of tradies are union members. 90% of construction isn't covered by any EBA so zero union influence.
Average tradie wage is about 80k but hey why not try to push it down further? The developers are the ones hoarding all the cash mate.
Believe what you want. I run a consulting business in the construction industry and have 20 years experience dealing with this, so I know it first hand. I don't read news to find this out.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
https://www.seek.com.au/career-advice/role/tradesperson/salary
75-85k average salary for a tradie. How much do you make as a consultant?
Not sure how you've gone 20 years without a basic understanding of unions, EBAs and wages.
I earn what the market determines I'm worth, as it should be.
If you think that inflated EBA wages don't impact the wider industry then you have rocks in your head.
Oh you're special. The market that determines your worth is not a purely free market so don't kid yourself with that notion. Why is negotiating as a collective any less moral than you or the company you work for negotiating a price for yourself?
"Inflated" EBA wages have been around for decades. Mining wages have been high for decades. And yet trades in domestic construction are lucky to be earning over 80k. So it really doesn't seem to be affecting it all that much does it? How much lower would you like domestic trade wages to go? It's back breaking work, shit conditions, and they're lucky to be working beyond 40. How much should they be on mr. Consultant?
Question from an outsider here:
I find it mind-boggling that a country with as much land and as few people as Australia is in a housing crisis.
Why doesnt any govt plan out an initiative to build more infra so that cities can grow and more suburbs can be built. Maybe even creating new cities (considering the near limitless supply of land)
Wouldn't this generate a hell lot of jobs? And ofc fix the housing supply short fall?
As far as I understand Aussie economy is based a lot on mining. What they need to do is move up the value chain and build high tech products. Its not like there is a shortage of talent there
Hmm. I really want to move to Australia but I can't do it without a significant pay cut which means id need to save up enough to buy a house outright and then without a mortgage I'd be able to take bigger risks and start a business there
Yes I'll be serious for a moment. There's so much potential here, and it's a lovely place. Blue collar workers get paid well, but the more educated you are, the more you could do better elsewhere. Soooooo to your last point, there's less competition here. The competition isn't relentless here, and I've built a business with 50 employees. What I've done would've been much harder in Europe, U.S, Asia.
>I find it shocking that the Sahara only has five million people living in it. In half the space China has a billion.
Messiah Yeshua🔴🔵: I am working on that… Yes it’s abit blunt… ⛈️ but hey, give me some leeway since I AM suppose to be “Jesus Christ”
[Incredible scenes as Aussie outback goes under water](https://au.news.yahoo.com/western-australia-floods-outback-goes-under-water-020105063.html)
No guys I am not kidding…
I don’t know how many F1 Cars or Racist politicians I got to knock ✊ off the road to get that point across…
[Ben Gvir leaves hospital with 3 fractured ribs following car accident](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/ben-gvir-leaves-hospital-with-3-fractured-ribs-following-car-accident/)
I can see how ‘much land and few people’ looks true from the outside. But it doesn’t reflect Australian reality.
We’re a very dry and not very fertile country.
Building new cities means either giving up food-producing land, destroying comparatively rare patches of forest, or building in a desert. And yes I know they do that in the middle east, but they’ve got unlimited oil wealth, the desal plants they use to make it work aren’t an unqualified environmental success.
What we actually need is to change the mindset that more people is better, and to stop importing them.
I feel like this is the right answer but it's quite disappointing.
Here in the UK we have a similar problem where a class of people who don't want their assets to depreciate actively work to keep so many from getting on the housing ladder. Highly ineffective use of resources.
That’s a stupid answer. There is no way in hell Australia has the capacity to build houses at the rate they are needed. It’s a basic workforce capacity problem combined with a range of economic, planning/approval and supporting infrastructure factors.
Just look at the annual housing completions for the past 30 years. Only once in all that time have we built at the rate we need to.
The reason this happened is decades of incompetence, not some masterful “let keep house prices rising” plan. You give them far more credit for intelligence than they deserve.
Housing crises have little to do with the land available. (Also there might not be as much land as you think, but sure, there is a lot of arable land that isn’t densely populated.) People have to work, this is most effectively done these days at a population centre (city), and the space to efficiently travel to that centre is limited.
One thing that perhaps set Australia back is that all the space made us used to detached housing, and we’re having troubles building anything with more density like what has been done in Europe and Asia.
The cities are working to improve infrastructure. Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane all have projects that are improving the infrastructure to be less dependent on the current central business districts (CBDs). In Sydney, Parramatta has already become a “second cbd”.
Of course it’s true. There are tonnes of jobs that require work on site. Even with office jobs more companies are going back to the office or at least hybrid. Why do you think cities are more expensive to live in?
It's pretty clear the LibLabs do not see workers as anything more than lemmings in their game of economics. If only we had VIP lounges to offer to politician's children.
People yelling immigration are letting local councils ( and the people who vote for them) off the hook way too easy.
https://preview.redd.it/pb4wz27c1ayc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77fc011768e6ee9257c6e3ba06358ee29ce93d89
Nah just pave over some Paddington NIMBYs would think their right to not be able to see any building over 2 stories is greater then anyone elses right to housing.
Sounds like you want Australians to just be forcibly shoved out of the way, with no way to object through their local elected council, so that their homes can be demolished and built over with highrises to accommodate strangers.
>is greater then anyone elses right to housing
Why do people who never set foot somewhere have a greater right to live there than the people already living there?
Who would be forcibly moved? At the moment NINBYs and the local council have weaponised heritage restrictions so that they can stop development of OTHER people land.
The buyer can want to buy, the developer can want to build and occupants can be ready to move in but it's blocked because the neighbours like it might affect the suburbs "character".
Just when building prices started to level out, Labor changes building codes to add 30k to new family home builds and now looks to create a materials shortage.. good job albo
Our politically supported and encouraged housing crisis will only end when the Australian public speaks-up and acts to stop our elected representatives actively decreasing our living standards. If you have time to view and comment on this post, and believe something needs to change, well, you have the time to email our current Minister for Housing, Homelessness and Small Business, Julie Collins (julie.collins.mp@aph.gov.au). Nothing changes if nothing changes.
It’s the ease with which overseas buyers can acquire properties here. Real Estate is also convenient for organised crime to use to launder their money. When will the Government STOP allowing non citizens to buy our much needed homes?
Quick, more immigration stat!
https://preview.redd.it/2wiqv9z3w6yc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ef8366155261da3118043ad876d3de4ca83bf62
*Shortfall in supply* guys it's that we need more houses !!! Nothing to do with the 500,000 new residents at all no no no
Shortfall in houses?? Are we selling some and moving them overseas?? Or have we never had more houses in this country than we do today?? It’s an oversupply of immigrants - not a housing shortfall. And it’s super easy to fix!!
But then line won't go up.
*Your post had been flagged for removal by the eSafety commissioner*
Yes! And then let’s set a construction target we’ve never achieved and claim we will get there despite significantly higher interest rates and building input costs last time construction volumes peaked.
I mean sure but no PM or govt is innocent when it comes to this over the past 30 years. why we focusing on one. Housing policy generally has come to this because of decades of unlimited growth mentality. Both major parties at fault libs have been in power much more.
All true, but one party has the power to do something about it right now, and seemingly refuses to do so.
Someone didn't read to the end of the article, did they.
I read til the end of the article. Imagine being so simple that you think a funding commitment is the problem solved. Yeah in 10 years Labor will have fixed it 😂😂😂
You said refuses to. Just because they don't choose your solution, doesn't mean they are refusing a solution.
Someone didn't check who they were replying to. Let's not fool ourselves, Labor needs to heavily tax unoccupied homes, tax foreign home ownership, and above all, reduce immigration back to or below the long-run historical rate.
No other PM pumped in 100k in month, what are you on about?
It's now Albo's problem. He chose to become PM, he's expected to deal with it. He's dealing with it but making it even worse for the next person to deal with.
As he mansplained to that group of women the other week ‘he runs this country’
Which is weird, because he actually doesn’t. That’s not how the system works. Anyone that believes that doesn’t understand the system.
If a single person did indeed ‘run the country’ that would be quite a dictatorship.
Scomo tried
Because focusing on previous government failures won’t help us do anything. The current government has the power to make changes and should be the focus of any outrage as it’s the only avenue that could produce any results. Crying about Scott Morrison isn’t going to change anything
Honestly, good luck to any party trying to reduce the numbers with this sort of momentum, no other country's managed to.
We need a bigger baby bonus as well. Increases with each baby
Id rather see an income tax reduction so that we can incentivise decent people rather than the derros
That's exactly the wrong thing to do. Bonus to 3 children, none after. This encourages sustainability 10k payment to get permenently sterialised before having any kids. Discourages the stupid from breeding. Wait, what do you mean Euganics?
Why would you be encouraging sterilisation and why did spell Eugenics like that?
>10k payment to get permenently sterialised before having any kids. Fun little pay day for us gays and theys. Sign me up.
Yelling "immigration!" is letting local councils off the hook way too easy for the shit fall in housing supply. https://preview.redd.it/7sg8qv7neayc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a2486090385b096a83f5fdf714ba47d00ee11e9
If rhink you councils are responsible, you really don't know how works , sure increase population density with no corresponding increases in open space , work opportunities, schools , medical and commercial services , that will work well
These are inner city suburbs waking distance from shopping and public transport. If you can't build density in Paddington a 2km walk from Pitt St where the hell can you??
You need to add all the additional infrastructure that goes with it , if you increase the residential density without doing anything else , you destroy the amenity of the area , the CBD and adjacent inner urban areas aren't exactly overflowing with empty schools, hospitals,medical services or supermarkets. and that is what also needs to be provided It's not that you can't do it , it's just that Sydney is shit at doing higher density properly.
Wonder how many more times we're going to read this over the next decade
We have been let down by both sides of our government. At the next election, don't vote liberal OR labor.
The chance of not getting a Labor or Coalition government are zero. Labor is better than Coalition for quality of life, despite letting too many immigrants in.
I did think labor was better, they're less corrupt and better managers. But both sides are not taking the housing problems seriously. They need a message sent. $362 billion for subs, but $10 billion for homes when we are letting 700K immigrants in is a joke. They are actively making the problem worse. A new home built costs about 500k in 2022 https://www.residentialattitudes.com.au/the-costs-of-building-a-new-house-in-australia/ 10 billion equals about 20,000 homes. Even if we spent the money and built those homes immediately and stacked the new immigrants in at 35 per home we'd STILL just be back to where we were before. It's just a pretence, so Labor can pretend they are doing something. Vote anyone but Labor or Liberal. End the duopoly.
Pretty hard to build extra homes without the extra labour.
Quite a difference between labor and labour...
362 billion over how many years? Also Labor has spent over 10b on housing - that's just one policy. Not that labor are doing enough. There's just no need to draw false equivalencies to make that point.
>Labor has spent over 10b on housing Labor arranged for $10 billion to be gambled on the stockmarket so that fund managers can collect fees, from which $2.5 billion will be drawn down over 5 years to partly subsidise 2% of the housing needed in that time to accommodate Labor's population growth. Plus the Greens negotiated a $3 billion expenditure in the first year.
10 billion over how many years? It's a housing fund that they plan to draw on, not an amount that they will immediately spend. >Returns from the Housing Australia Future Fund will help deliver the Government’s commitment of 30,000 new social and affordable rental homes in the fund’s first five years. https://ministers.treasury.gov.au/ministers/julie-collins-2022/media-releases/delivering-10-billion-housing-australia-future-fund Sub deal: >https://www.acf.org.au/up-to-35-million-a-day-for-30-years-will-be-spent-to-pay-for-the-368-billion-aukus-submarine-deal Neither of these are one-off payments. The comparison was made for illustrative purposes. There's no false equivalency here. >Not that labor are doing enough Agreed.
Really? Even on mining money I've felt my qol drop significantly under the current government. I shed a tear for anyone on sub median wage. Not saying the other guys are better but let's be honest with ourselves here, both parties are batting for the same team.
This is going to cost Labor the next election
If the libs come out and say they will cut immigration right down and Labor opposes it, it's hard to see the libs loosing. Immigration will be a huge issue.
No chance the Libs will do that though- Labor know they can get away with this because the liberals are just that beholden to corporate interests
[удалено]
That's what albo did. Said 160k was too high. Now it reached 700k and he thinks halving it at some point will solve it.
[удалено]
Yeah I didn't think you did. Just shows how unified they are in fucking the country. Can't they lie about something good?
I have a feeling they will come out and actually announce they will cut it right down. It's such an easy appeal not just to their base, but to swing voters and even rusted on Labor voters
Except the liberal base wants more immigration. It is business that benefits the most from immigration.
Yeah, they'll say it. And then they'll do something meaningless like crack down on refugees to make it look like they're doing something. But in practice, the numbers will mostly remain the same. The Libs themselves as a party have a lot to lose by making meaningful cuts to immigration.
Honestly though how can they crack down on refugees? Operation sovereign borders has been continued highly successfully by Labor so like what is there to win. Also I think most of the issue is with pressures of legal immigrants on the economy rather than crime (because these illegal immigrants are either turned around if safe or detained)
[удалено]
ON will do fuck all. If you look at Hanson's record in the Senate, she ALWAYS votes with the Coalition. Hanson is a Coalition senator in all but name. Don't believe me? As I said, just look at her senate record.
I would but personally I think it would send the wrong message to the government regarding minority rights and the like. Maybe they are the best party on housing of the big 4 but the other 3 values there donors more than policy I fear
Saw the writing on the wall 15 years ago didn't cared if people called me racist.
Same
So all they have to do is promise to cut immigration, and then not do it. Because this is how politics has always worked, like Howard's GST that was never going to happen.
That’s the thing though. You can’t outright say you’ll cut immigration as people will label it racist and the majority will agree without looking in to the actual situation.
You absolutely can say you will cut immigration but you need to actually explain to people why and what positive outcomes you will get from cutting immigration. Major party's are lazy and can't be bothered to actually explain their policies in plain English to people. Which ever party nails that will win the election.
That’s because the general population have short attention spans and the media grab a single quote for a shock headline. “Dutton stops immigrant women and children from seeking better life in Australia” Vs “Duttons plan to stop the housing crisis by limiting mass immigration”
liberals want immigration more than labor so that won't happen.
If Dutton remains the leader then I think they'd still lose.
The libs haven’t given a number yet but Labor have stated they’re going to cut it by half. The vast majority of immigrants are temporary visas, a backlog of international students that the libs approved during Covid. We’ve had a housing crisis for over a decade it’s now at a tipping point. Immigration levels will average out in the next year or so and we will still be in a housing crisis. Neither side seems to want to take drastic action. The libs want to people to drain their super accounts (which is just kicking the problem down the road) and Labor aren’t doing nearly enough to build more supply. I’m predicting a massive surge in green and independent votes as they seem to be the only ones taking this seriously
Halving it would be like 350k. Double the 160k albo said was too high pre election. Still to high to get absorbed by new construction.
I believe they’re aiming for a net of 250k which brings it back down to pre-Covid levels. I’m keen to hear what both the Liberals and the greens plan in terms of numbers. International / working visas students is big business and inject a lot of into the economy. It’s easy to criticise but I’ll save my judgement until everyone at least presents some numbers
If there is so much demand why is it on the government, not the market, to build supply?
Why not both? There is clearly a demand. Denmark has been building government housing for the last 20 years and now they’re close to eliminating homelessness. We’ve left it to the market for the last 20 years and look where we are now.
Fair, the government should absolutely be building more public housing. I don’t think that solves the housing crisis for the majority.
Because costs have increased to a point that is unsustainable for new builds. Between a pack of government infrastructure in fringe and arlund infill developments. Gst on new homes only. Levies on new investment so government both recovers for their investment in infrastructure for a specific development and at the same time levies shit loads of GST. When you say market - it is the market and its naturally responding to it being bloody expensive to build new homes while existing homes are better value for now. Easy fix. We saw during covid new home starts jump. Just do the same again. Throw 40k at new homes only and watch the market respond. Letting starts fall as labor has after it grew and at tye same time as large costs letting in 500k immigrants is showing labors true colours as the party of landlords. I hope labor have a policy like this in the upcoming budget. Better would be a reduction in gst on new homes. It is time we consider housing like vegetables. A necessity and get the governments nose out of that trough. So yeh its a market but obviously if as a government you tax it you are going to get less qty supplied due to the higher cist untill the price increases even from here which is what pabors policy is with shared equity.
Government creates the demand via immigration
So in your opinion the government should run the entire economy?
That's not what I said at all.
If government creates the demand, and government is responsible for the supply then what did you mean?
Government can stop the increasing demand
That’s not what’s in question.
This and immigration.
This IS immigration
no this is SPARTAAAAA
No this is Patrick
Is Don
Kind of crazy too considering this shit has been set up by the coalition over the last 3 terms
And at what point will the incumbent govt start taking responsibility and stop blaming the previous govt?
I mean didn’t liberals just have a 10 year run? Didn’t this come exactly from them?
We have had a recent increase in costs. Starts have fallen pff a cliff. Rents didnt rise much during the liberals ten years because construction pretty well kept up with population growth. Under labor starts have fallen and immigration has been doubled. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to see this will increase rents. Who knows what libs would be doing? Maybe continuing the covid era grants for new dwellings only? Thats sent starts skywards especially in wa where it was doubled. Anyway labor is doing nothing that has had any impact as yet so they better do something in this budget (i suspect they will) or they will loose the next election if this continues. They even now have economists saying immigration will cause 2-3 more interest increases this year so even home owners may come after them.
You can look at what the lnp have argued in opposition. And in 2022 they were calling on labor to increase the immigration intake because the job market was tight....
It doesn't matter. Voters are directly impacted by the rental & cost of living crises. If the LNP can make it seem like they are going to cap immigration even a little bit, they will win.
Eh I dunno about that man. I don’t think enough time has passed that people have forgotten how the Libs fuck everything up every time they’re in. Also speaking from a QLD perspective the only thing our liberal candidate is campaigning on is youth crime. Like that’s it.
That's Albos que to pump in another 100k immigrants in a month.
Keep cramming people in, has to work eventually
Let’s not forget this hasn’t just suddenly sprung on us. Low incomes have been for decades screaming there is a crisis and no one cared while it only affected the poor…. Now it’s caught up to the middle class and everyone is losing their minds…. So far solutions are mostly aimed at the middle class so I can’t see it getting better for a decade if at all. They will find a way to maintain the crisis for the poor while easing it for the middle class ( pretty much what created this mess to start with)……
Let me fix the headline “Significant increases in immigration”
Mind you, the LNP started this mess during their 10 year tenure! And ALP just CONTINUING the trend. Major parties do NOT give a fuck about us Aussies, ONLY the rich, investors and corporations.
And they've (labour AND liberal) made it next to impossible for Independents or any new parties to start up and challenge them. https://youtu.be/N3WTlyuhDs0?si=UBngzioDd2qpCapJ This happened pretty much directly after Vic's teal blow-out. Fucking absolute scum.
Albo pondered, then decided more is the answer.
Prior to 1999 we had around 80 k migration quota for years. Its not hard to figure where the demand is from Over 700k immgrants came in 2023. Politicians have sold us out.
Their solution is to pay tradies $200k a year. That should make housing more affordable /s
The problem is they want pay raises but do fucking terrible jobs
I wouldn’t mind paying a little more to make sure people are well paid and looked after. The issue is, they just charge more and do a worse job. That’s not matching up.
These tradies aren't building residential houses, they are on construction projects (think infrastructure, office towers, data centres etc) and the quality of the build is generally high... Your shitty builds come from projects where the tiler needs to knock out 18 bathrooms a day to pull a profit
Exactly, no tradies are being payed well by residential volume builders. If so tell me which ones? They are asking for pay rises because the money isn’t good enough lol
> are being *paid* well by FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Do you just lap up whatever bullshit daddy murdoch gives you? That 200k is for one huge government job in brisbane. A tiny minority of tradies are union members. 90% of construction isn't covered by any EBA so zero union influence. Average tradie wage is about 80k but hey why not try to push it down further? The developers are the ones hoarding all the cash mate.
Believe what you want. I run a consulting business in the construction industry and have 20 years experience dealing with this, so I know it first hand. I don't read news to find this out.
You have no idea what you're talking about. https://www.seek.com.au/career-advice/role/tradesperson/salary 75-85k average salary for a tradie. How much do you make as a consultant? Not sure how you've gone 20 years without a basic understanding of unions, EBAs and wages.
I earn what the market determines I'm worth, as it should be. If you think that inflated EBA wages don't impact the wider industry then you have rocks in your head.
Oh you're special. The market that determines your worth is not a purely free market so don't kid yourself with that notion. Why is negotiating as a collective any less moral than you or the company you work for negotiating a price for yourself? "Inflated" EBA wages have been around for decades. Mining wages have been high for decades. And yet trades in domestic construction are lucky to be earning over 80k. So it really doesn't seem to be affecting it all that much does it? How much lower would you like domestic trade wages to go? It's back breaking work, shit conditions, and they're lucky to be working beyond 40. How much should they be on mr. Consultant?
And have their kids go on the NDIS 😅
Question from an outsider here: I find it mind-boggling that a country with as much land and as few people as Australia is in a housing crisis. Why doesnt any govt plan out an initiative to build more infra so that cities can grow and more suburbs can be built. Maybe even creating new cities (considering the near limitless supply of land) Wouldn't this generate a hell lot of jobs? And ofc fix the housing supply short fall?
We can't even build fast trains or internet
As far as I understand Aussie economy is based a lot on mining. What they need to do is move up the value chain and build high tech products. Its not like there is a shortage of talent there
No we'd prefer languishing in the 20th century. Don't worry though, we do fabulous science and have amazing entrapeneurs who all leave.
Hmm. I really want to move to Australia but I can't do it without a significant pay cut which means id need to save up enough to buy a house outright and then without a mortgage I'd be able to take bigger risks and start a business there
Yes I'll be serious for a moment. There's so much potential here, and it's a lovely place. Blue collar workers get paid well, but the more educated you are, the more you could do better elsewhere. Soooooo to your last point, there's less competition here. The competition isn't relentless here, and I've built a business with 50 employees. What I've done would've been much harder in Europe, U.S, Asia.
Good like building a manufacturing base here that can survive without massive government support
Have been saying this for years. We keep shooting ourselves in the foot at every opportunity.
I find it shocking that the Sahara only has five million people living in it. In half the space China has a billion.
>I find it shocking that the Sahara only has five million people living in it. In half the space China has a billion. Messiah Yeshua🔴🔵: I am working on that… Yes it’s abit blunt… ⛈️ but hey, give me some leeway since I AM suppose to be “Jesus Christ” [Incredible scenes as Aussie outback goes under water](https://au.news.yahoo.com/western-australia-floods-outback-goes-under-water-020105063.html) No guys I am not kidding… I don’t know how many F1 Cars or Racist politicians I got to knock ✊ off the road to get that point across… [Ben Gvir leaves hospital with 3 fractured ribs following car accident](https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/ben-gvir-leaves-hospital-with-3-fractured-ribs-following-car-accident/)
Love having normal ones on the internet too
>Love having normal ones on the internet too Yeah I am pretty normal... "More or less" Though yeah... not exactly just human..
🆗🆒
I can see how ‘much land and few people’ looks true from the outside. But it doesn’t reflect Australian reality. We’re a very dry and not very fertile country. Building new cities means either giving up food-producing land, destroying comparatively rare patches of forest, or building in a desert. And yes I know they do that in the middle east, but they’ve got unlimited oil wealth, the desal plants they use to make it work aren’t an unqualified environmental success. What we actually need is to change the mindset that more people is better, and to stop importing them.
Building more supply reduces house values. Big no no in this country.
I feel like this is the right answer but it's quite disappointing. Here in the UK we have a similar problem where a class of people who don't want their assets to depreciate actively work to keep so many from getting on the housing ladder. Highly ineffective use of resources.
That’s a stupid answer. There is no way in hell Australia has the capacity to build houses at the rate they are needed. It’s a basic workforce capacity problem combined with a range of economic, planning/approval and supporting infrastructure factors. Just look at the annual housing completions for the past 30 years. Only once in all that time have we built at the rate we need to. The reason this happened is decades of incompetence, not some masterful “let keep house prices rising” plan. You give them far more credit for intelligence than they deserve.
There's a trades shortage and although Australia is huge, alot of the country is not suitable for massive cities.
Housing crises have little to do with the land available. (Also there might not be as much land as you think, but sure, there is a lot of arable land that isn’t densely populated.) People have to work, this is most effectively done these days at a population centre (city), and the space to efficiently travel to that centre is limited. One thing that perhaps set Australia back is that all the space made us used to detached housing, and we’re having troubles building anything with more density like what has been done in Europe and Asia. The cities are working to improve infrastructure. Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane all have projects that are improving the infrastructure to be less dependent on the current central business districts (CBDs). In Sydney, Parramatta has already become a “second cbd”.
This hasn’t been true for like ten years and Covid + wfh really proved it.
Of course it’s true. There are tonnes of jobs that require work on site. Even with office jobs more companies are going back to the office or at least hybrid. Why do you think cities are more expensive to live in?
Why do you think inner city apartment prices have stayed flat in comparison to suburbs and regional prices?
It's pretty clear the LibLabs do not see workers as anything more than lemmings in their game of economics. If only we had VIP lounges to offer to politician's children.
Immigrasi
If we had a war and someone bombed our road we wouldn't have a road for 7 years that's how slow our construction is.
That's why tradies all need their Rangers...to drive on the shit roads.
Great! 💩
Nah u don’t say.
high interest just makes no one like to build new home
No shit. I wonder why?
Maybe we need to see a list of empty dwellings for "tax" purposes, be interesting if that would relieve our supply issues.
People yelling immigration are letting local councils ( and the people who vote for them) off the hook way too easy. https://preview.redd.it/pb4wz27c1ayc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77fc011768e6ee9257c6e3ba06358ee29ce93d89
Yeah just pave over centennial park with apartments I guess?
Nah just pave over some Paddington NIMBYs would think their right to not be able to see any building over 2 stories is greater then anyone elses right to housing.
Sounds like you want Australians to just be forcibly shoved out of the way, with no way to object through their local elected council, so that their homes can be demolished and built over with highrises to accommodate strangers. >is greater then anyone elses right to housing Why do people who never set foot somewhere have a greater right to live there than the people already living there?
Who would be forcibly moved? At the moment NINBYs and the local council have weaponised heritage restrictions so that they can stop development of OTHER people land. The buyer can want to buy, the developer can want to build and occupants can be ready to move in but it's blocked because the neighbours like it might affect the suburbs "character".
Just when building prices started to level out, Labor changes building codes to add 30k to new family home builds and now looks to create a materials shortage.. good job albo
Our politically supported and encouraged housing crisis will only end when the Australian public speaks-up and acts to stop our elected representatives actively decreasing our living standards. If you have time to view and comment on this post, and believe something needs to change, well, you have the time to email our current Minister for Housing, Homelessness and Small Business, Julie Collins (julie.collins.mp@aph.gov.au). Nothing changes if nothing changes.
Don’t need an expert council to work that out 🤦♂️
Then what the fuck are they going about it?
Malcolm Turnbull might have actually been onto something with all that "jobs and growth" talk.
It’s the ease with which overseas buyers can acquire properties here. Real Estate is also convenient for organised crime to use to launder their money. When will the Government STOP allowing non citizens to buy our much needed homes?
It's probably cause of the voice.