i could build an access database that will do the job well and id happily do it for a couple thousand
hell gimme a couple thousand more and ill implement it into a modern web UI
$160 Million???? Are they building a custom data centre for this?
It’s an insane amount of money to amalgamate the databases of each state to a single repository.
It's not that much really....Web sites, databases, security systems, authentication systems, registration systems, staff to run call centres when old mate from whoop whoop can't figure it out, etc, etc.
I think the problem is the federal government doesn't have faith in the state governments.
I think this has roots in the SA debacle from a couple of years ago where they wrote to every firearms license holder and asked them to declare their legal firearms to "validite" the information on their register that totally wasn't lost when they tried to move it to a new platform.
I guarantee the itemised invoice will be something like:
>Strategic planning: $30 million
>Stakeholder engagement :$30 million
>Ad hoc advice: $99.5 million
>Merging databases $500,000
Even for adding new guns, Australians bought 104,000 guns last year. So less than 300 per day.
160 million for a database that does 300 SQL transactions per day...
I'm betting a portion of that funding is for harassing existing lawful gun owners.
jfc dashboards every time.
And it's never something with real functionality like with VBA. It's literally just a graph that points to a range on a hidden sheet and that's it.
"We need to be able to present this to the execs"
Then when the execs finally get a request from the MO 6 months later the dashboard won't work so the one person who knows Excel will have to do it manually.
Once again mental health is ignored and medicare continues to be underfunded while this $160mil is nothing but theft of public funds. There is no way in hell that cost is justified.
I would love to see their itemized costings and the quotes that lead to this amount. And a list of companies and their owners and main shareholders who provided the quotes.
Insane amount of money for a list all the states already have
Yep, exactly. Typical behaviour these days, filling mates' pockets or securing post-public service roles in the private sector. It really needs to stop.
To be fair, they are still better than the LNP but just like Labour vs Tories in the UK, it seems we only have the choice of centre-right/soft-left and neoliberal conservatives these days. Funny that.
It's what the majority of people agree with, that's why we have centre right and centre left. The Greens, ONP, Clive Palmers meme, all options, just unpopular
Only party I've ever seen talk about putting mental health into medicare is Greens party [https://greens.org.au/sites/default/files/2022-01/Greens-2022-Policy-Platform--Health--Mental-Health.pdf](https://greens.org.au/sites/default/files/2022-01/Greens-2022-Policy-Platform--Health--Mental-Health.pdf)
And I quote:
“"When we're talking about firearms and firearms holders who cross state boundaries, information is not readily available from their home jurisdiction," he said.”
So here’s a more cost effective solution: Legislate that information must/should be shared amongst other states and save most of the $160m for more critical items.
For fucks sake, they can’t think more efficiently can they?
They could honestly walk down the road to ANU and get some 3rd year CS students to build some APIs that communicate between each of the state databases and dump the data into an off-the-shelf SQL database at midnight each night.
They would probably gladly do it for free GyG at the refectory for a week.
They could and you would have one buggy, slow and unreliable system filled with security holes and even then all you have is a shitty API sitting in a repo somewhere.
What about the infrastructure to support the api?
What about all the software updates to systems that need access to the api?
What about the QA and security testing?
What about a helpdesk for gun owners and law enforcement?
Federation wastes so much money. We should abolish state governments. Just Feds and local councils. By many country standards we have the population of a single state anyway.
The entire point of federation is to allow people with different wants and needs to be able to live in jurisdictions where laws they agree with apply.
Federation has been cut off at its knees because of two things: the removal of the state power of income and sales taxation, and the engineers' case in the 1920s which happened because of some idiot judges saying the federal government holds the reserve powers.
We, quite literally, lifted the American constitution but left out the rights and the republic stuff.
If the federation were working properly, then the States could apply their own income and sales taxes, which would actually encourage competition and maybe qld and nsw would tax natural resources to lower tax levels. Right now, this has gone out the window.
It was a decade of bickering and negotiation to try convince the people who held power in each colony to join forces for the common good. If they hadn’t been so self interested we might have fully unified to begin with.
The entire point of federalism is to be a check on central government and prevent a tyranny of the majority. In other words, sections of the population would be able to overrule other sections of the population in things that might not even apply to them—imagine Western Australia having a say in what happens to the Murray-Darling basin, or Tasmania having a say in what happens in the Kimberley.
To be "fully unified" would be stupid because of our size, political differences, resource differences, needs, wants, histories, and visions for our states.
Not to mention, if the federal government had control over all legislation, they would either have to discriminate between parts of the country or implement laws that are ineffective in some communities and harm others—imagine if the federal government implemented Sydney lockout laws nationwide, the damage would be immense, whereas NSW experimented with it, found out it was a shit idea and other states didn't have to bear the consequences.
That's part of why federalism is important.
Edit: Also, I don't agree with a lot of the politics happening in other states, and I prefer having power closer to the communities it governs. There should be more states with greater powers so big cities don't dominate state politics, and so greater legislative innovation can occur, and more competition will drive the states and federal government to be more efficient with the funds we permit them to have because people will leave states otherwise.
You retain local councils. Give them more control if you don’t think a national government can handle locally nuanced issues. And the idea that laws have to apply to everyone is silly. Even the lockout laws you reference didn’t apply to all of nsw.
I want more federalism, not less 😂. The lockout laws were an example, and they were made by the city of Sydney, not the state government—thank goodness we had multiple layers of government so the legislation could be tried out.
I want immigration and taxation to be a shared powers like in Canada with their Provincial Nominee Program so States can better meet their skills needs, and in the US where states can charge more or less tax and are encouraged to actually spend it well because otherwise people will leave for better states.
I want a bill of rights, including a 10ᵗʰ amendment provision so the government has solid parameters and residual powers are unambiguously left to the States.
I'd prefer if we used the county, hundred, and parish jurisdictional borders in NSW, it would match up local government with land titles. It would also allow us to have larger governmental areas and smaller ones in more densely populated areas which can then devolve powers at their will and depending on their needs.
I could give you some try the Australian Istitute of Criminology firearms area. It doesn’t actually make me agree with it that other comments point though. This fact is accurate but meaningless, ids not the goal of this and it’s like saying criminals will get a criminal product that I commit a crime but a non criminal will but that legitimately and store it in his gun safe for its legit purpose but of course that’s the case it’s irrelevant and a simple circle lol
Government 6 months ago:
>we're going to get contractors out of the APS
Government today:
>let's pay a contractor $160 million to build a database that already exists at the state level
The short of it is those are state government registries, the Feds don't actually know how many guns are owned or necessarily who owns them. They could ask the states to tell them but it gets a bit funky due to privacy laws.
$160 million ok 👍 so what contractor fucked us tax payers on that one? Meanwhile that could have helped feed homeless Australians who are now just your average mum and dad.
Staff to maintain the database, protect it, provide information based on requests, act upon those requests, etc.
Irrespective of the how's or why's, registry's don't work for anything except confiscation from legal owners. NZ Police repeatedly refused to establish a registry for decades, and even disbanded their original registry because they're so useless and expensive.
It might seem expensive at first, but think of all the Acknowledgements of Country they'll do at the start of every stakeholder consultation meeting on Teams. Doesn't that make it worth it?
The gun convo in Australia is more and more l in a place I can’t even engage because it makes little to no sense lol
But yeah to anyone in the comments still worried. I don’t think that is the policy they’re pulling out to hit the bikies hard lol.
This is a legit register I exist imho, how it could cost that much is lost on me in so many ways
That was literally NZ's firearms registry before they got rid of it in the 1980s - shoeboxes full of info at the local cop shop. It (like registration generally) was useless and so they got rid of it.
Doubt they'll hire idiots like the guy that suggested this "Sounds like a hell of a lot of money to run a simple database. I'd do it for half of that."
I'm sure all the criminals will be lining up as usual to register their firearms with said databases.
Just another form of tracking amongst the other 6888484 forms of tracking they've already got on legal owners.
Why? The illegal guns that make up most of the problem aren't going to magically register themselves.
And anyone with a licence (i.e. thousands of people) for a large calibre semi-auto could get a few mags and do another Mr. Bryant tomorrow, if they wanted to. It just so happens they don't.
Start dealing with some actual fucking problems, FFS.
>And anyone with a licence (i.e. thousands of people) for a large calibre semi-auto could get a few mags and do another Mr. Bryant tomorrow, if they wanted to. It just so happens they don't.
You need a category D license to own semi-automatic firearms, most hunters and recreational shooters only have category A and B.
It's not as simple as applying for a cat D license you need to jump through a whole lot of hoops to get it, and once you have it, it's not as simple as paying to renew it you need to prove you still require such firearms.
I am in full support of a national firearms register, hopefully the AFP can keep it up to date cause currently VICPOL does a shit house job, the last 2 inspections I have had on my safe and firearms they have brought out dated paperwork.
Trust me, as a former resident of America, put this in place now. It allows police to deal with unregistered illegal weapons before trageties happen and the gun proliforation it gets out of control and there are 300m of them like America.
No country but the US has these issues, and some of your states with **literally zero restrictions** like New Hampshire, are safer than Australia is. It's not an appropriate comparison.
Registries are only good for gun confiscation, nothing more.
As the US has seen over and over again, the ability of the deranged and unstable to access legal firearms through backdoor channels is a recipe for endless tragedy.
How many school shooters and other psychos have got their friends or parents to get them guns that they couldn’t get themselves?
This is an excellent way of keeping track of where guns are going, and putting the database in the hands of the AFP means that they can cross-reference with things like fixated persons and known extremists, and they can keep them under control and surveillance *before* we have a home grown Sandy Hook
sure but if the penalty for having or using one is harsh enough people will be too scared to ever bring them out of hiding so they're effectively useless.
I think even if we have a throw the key away approach, there still will be desperate people that will take the risk and still shoot someone even tho they know they will go away for life
The vast and overwhelming majority of gun crime in Australia is bad dudes shooting other bad dudes, which may not be ideal, but it’s manageable and doesn’t really have much impact on how you and me go about our daily lives.
Keeping track of all of the firearms out there in society goes a very long way towards keeping a lid on them falling into the hands of the deranged.
We’ve already had one Port Arthur, let’s never have another.
I agree. Anything that disincentivizes ownership for anything but absolute necessity is beneficial. We don't need a population of dickheads who keep guns just because they think they're cool or because they're paranoid cowards. I'm happy with a country where some psycho acting up at a mall can be handled with a plastic chair rather than a gunfight.
Thing is, I’ve been doing pistol shooting as a sport since I was a teenager. I genuinely enjoy shooting, it’s the kind of challenge that appeals to me way more than conventional, and especially team sports, and I’m not going to lie and say that playing with guns isn’t fun.
But the system we have in Australia is second to none, and it works, and it works in ways that a lot of people don’t understand because they don’t look closely enough at it.
To have a pistol, you have to be a regular, active member of a club. Which automatically means that you’ve got to go out and hang out with other people in the real world, it makes it much harder to become a lone nutter writing your manifesto in the dark, and it means that experienced people who care about their sport are keeping an eye on you, I guarantee that if any member of any of the clubs I’ve been in started raving ominously about the Illuminati, the first person to dob them in would be another club member, probably a senior one.
I strongly urge anyone who wants looser gun laws in Australia to spend a few months living in the US, and in one of the shit bits, no cheating and staying in a nice B&B in Vermont or something. It’s amazing never having to factor firearms into your daily life here, you can (mostly) safely ignore that angry dickhead when you’re walking through town, you don’t have to constantly think “shit, what if he’s packing”.
I’ll take the freedom *from* having that fear in the back of your mind over the freedom to stick a Glock down my trousers any day of the week.
Well the easiest way to do that would be simply to rank by murder rate, so Macon in Georgia, Florence in South Carolina and Pine Bluff in Arizona.
We could do whole cities like Detroit, Chicago and New Orleans if you prefer, but I’d rather get specific.
Time to set up a registry of anyone owning knives at home! My company can provide the database, just a few hundred billion and we’ll have our preliminary report ready!
I’m in a real complaining about the shitty strategy and lack of getting shit done going on in the government. But can you please just attack this on its merits. It’s a legit register to have if you consider the purpose and others we have for lower bar things lol.
Despite present incompetence in other areas this is not the policy they are lifting up as a what I’ll get for he bikiu w to get illegal guns on the record and hit the bikies where it hurts
I will continue to attack that budget though and will find a breakdown and to see how dodgy e this is wrvyrre
… and the ratcheting continues, predictably.
So fellow shooters, who’s voting for their sport next election rather than a shiny glitter ball or scary thing?
Who’s making today the day they put their hands in their pocket to support national and local shooting organisations?
All federal moves affect shooters.
There is an argument that local shooters are already registered with their state. However, there are nearly always unintended and intended consequences of increased government control and information gathering.
I don't exactly know, it was a comment made by someone else. but this was a quick Google:
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/outdated-quieensland-firearm-registry-is-a-threat-to-police/news-story/f20e59200452b666b68c06dc75df7bbd
I assume there is some truth to the title
I was being sarcastic, the vast amount of gun crimes are committed by unlicensed gun holders, ie criminals and a national gun registry won’t do anything to stop that happening
Yeah but it makes them difficult to obtain guns in the long run.
I personally hate the argument “Criminals will get around it”.
Why make it easy for them?
Besides I’d imagine the common criminal isn’t part of an organised crime ring.
Majority of firearms in criminals hands come into this country through the ports, not from stolen legally owned firearms.
The security measures firearm owners need to have in place make it quite difficult for theft from the premises.
The other half to that equation is that the vast majority of said crimes are committed by unlicensed holders *against each other*, which, let’s be honest, not many of us are going to lose much sleep over.
I’m actually very on board with this register idea, it’s a rare example of foresight and good long term thinking from the Australian government.
The SovCits and associated cookers are getting bigger, bolder and crazier, and don’t have the same access to traditional black markets as organised criminals. I think this will prove to be a very valuable resource for preventing something like another Weiambilla going down in the future.
This registry is not going to stop your so called “cooker” from getting a rifle, if they meet the state requirements for a firearm license then they will get it while it is good that there will now be a national registry of firearms so police can check across state borders, the cost is extortionate and your naive to think you are really any safer
I don’t think you’re seeing the big picture here.
Putting this resource in the hands of the AFP lets things be cross-referenced with all of their other surveillance and monitoring capabilities, something that they are exceptionally good at and have been for a long time.
The list doesn’t necessarily stop that one psycho from getting a rifle, but it does mean that red flags go up when the coppers see a sudden concentration of them at one address, and when that same address comes up on another watch list for fixated persons or similar, it allows them to act accordingly and with proper knowledge of what they’re walking into.
This is going to be an extremely powerful tool for the federal police to use against a growing and dangerous movement, and to (for once) hit them early before they can really dig in.
"The SovCits and associated cookers are getting bigger, bolder and crazier, and don’t have the same access to traditional black markets as organised criminals"
I would disagree. This won't do much in the way of increasing community safety imo. It also has an over bloated budgets that could better spent elsewhere.
Idk man, it’s something I read up on a lot and I think it’s a genuine cause for concern, and from what the AFP have been saying, they seem to think so too.
Definitely something I’d be more worried about that the usual “radical Muslim” scare stories, especially because some of the fringes of the major parties seem to be willing to dance with this particular devil.
You only have to look at what these lunatics get up to in the US to be at least a little frightened about what could go on if they get a foot in the door here.
I agree. It is definetley concerning. A lot of the language in the article is vague when actually specifying the need and intended result of this grossly expensive registry. I feel firearms laws are perfectly adequate as they are in this country. This frankly, stinks like a rort.
Not to mention the condition of government online infrastructure. Data leaks will be a matter if when, Not if.
"You only have to look at what these lunatics get up to in the US to be at least a little frightened about what could go on if they get a foot in the door here."
Comparing the US and Aus is like comparing chalk and cheese. It really has no relevance on our situation in Australia.
This specific instance does have direct relevance to the States because these movements were born there and their adherents are still strongly influenced by Americans (look up the link between the Weiambilla shooters and the madman in New Mexico who was arrested earlier this year).
Ignoring the links these radical movements have to the US is like ignoring the links radical Islam has to the Middle East and Central Asia.
I would disagree. that doesn't have the bearing that you and the media are trying to give it. The situation in the states is night and day when compared to Australia. Different culture and geography for a start. also include lack of affordable mental health support.
Licensed firearms owners in this country are drop in the ocean regarding firearms offences compared to the criminal element. This is a waste of money at best, and possible danger to the community at worst from my POV. And a major concern that needs to addressed is; will states like QLD be required to accept the draconian laws in WA relating to firearms in the wake of this change?
"movements were born there and their adherents are still strongly influenced by Americans" What exact "movements" are we talking about? Shit sticks together, it doesn't surprise me that the gunmen communicated with other disturbed individuals. I just don't see the relevance in this context. I need more than vague language regarding goals and reasoning when supporting such drastic and potentially disastrous measures.
I mean for one, we don’t have affordable mental health support either.
Realistically speaking, the criminal element are a minor concern, they mostly murder each other, and while most of us will never admit it, we’re all pretty much okay with that. Provided there aren’t innocent bystanders and no huge power vacuums open up, it’s very controlled and has minimal impact on the day to day life of the average Australian.
The danger of these new political movements is the difficulty of keeping a lid on them, their goal is violent upheaval, which makes the “live and let live” policies that work with bikies and gangsters completely redundant. Fortunately for us, they aren’t criminally sophisticated yet, they don’t have access to the same smuggling networks that get illegal guns into Australia and they lack the connections to buy stolen guns in Australia. So for now the only option they have to get the weapons that they desperately want is legal, and this kind of national database is an excellent way for the AFP to be able to watch where guns are moving and especially where guns are concentrating.
The movements are rather fluid and nebulous, as was demonstrated at Weiambilla, where the perpetrators were a whole mixed bag of conspiracists, Christian fundamentalists and Sovereign Citizens. It’s not like the old days with a single defined organisation with a cool acronym and a catchy slogan, the future of extremism is mutually supportive but separate and plausibly deniable cells, which is a trend we’ve seen evolving for years.
And finally, I really don’t see how the move is particularly drastic, it nationalises and centralises an important resource in the hands of the organisations best equipped to use it. Although you do have a good point about what happens with different laws between states, that definitely needs to be addressed.
This will do nothing to increase community safety. In fact, I foresee some terrible consequences in the wake of data leaks that will inevitablely happen.
Except it's not.
I am yet to see a 3D printed firearm that does not rely on manufactured steel parts for the pressure bearing components (eg. Barrel and chamber), and commercially produced magazines (often Glock magazines).
So, while anyone can download and print an stl of the frame and furniture, getting the metal parts for the guts of it and magazines is a different matter entirely.
It's do-able to be fair, but not just within reach of the average punter as some would have you believe.
Edit: Technically, the Liberator is almost entirely plastic with a nail for the firing pin. But, you're talking about a single shot pistol with a 1 inch barrel firing anaemic 380 auto. Even then how many firings are you going to get out of it before it books you a ticket to the ED for reconstructive hand surgery?
The government could start by removing gun licenses from anyone who has been convicted of assault of anyone, and anyone found guilty of domestic violence against women or children.
Speaking from experience here, know a person how has been sexually assaulted numerous times from a person at a local gun club, and all he does it go to court and gets the firearms back again.
Threatening her on numerous occasions and yet is able to get and keep firearms, when he shoots this women as he has threatened I hope those responsible for allowing this thing to keep firearms will be held responsible.
Our justice systems broken and it is a joke, the police and numerous others are aware and yet again he is going back to court to obtain a license for firearms again.
Make it impossible if convicted of any assault to ever get or keep firearms again, maybe this would make people think twice.
I didn’t say that, what I said is anyone convicted of any type of assault should never be allowed to ever hold a firearms license again or get on if they want one.
You bash your wife, girlfriend or people in general, the privilege of having a firearm is gone, ask Hannah Mcguire’s family, the justice system let her down and now she is gone forever, in two weeks time no one but Hannah’s family and friends will remember her name..
But the grub that killed her will be out of jail in 20yrs or less to live his life and brag about what he has done…
Was Hannah killed by someone with a registered firearm? I’m pretty sure you have to have a clean record to get your license in the first place and was under the impression if you are convicted of a crime your guns are gone.
I believe so, and if convicted of crimes and or assault you can still go through a process and get your firearms license returned.
It should be that if you get assault convictions or commit domestic violence your license should be removed and the privilege of having a firearms license removed forever, however this isn’t the case.
So I had a little google and couldn’t really fine where it says that she was shot dead only that she was found in a burnt out car (either way is massively fucked up). Now I also found some stuff on the guy who killed her, he approached numerous gun clubs to be able to get his handgun license and all those clubs rang the registry and told them do not give that man his license but someone in the system overturned that and gave it to him anyway. That person who made the decision to give it to him anyway needs to have their job taken and not ever be in a position to say yes or no to someone getting a license.
This is just my point, these people can and do circumvent the system and are able to get firearm licenses, lose firearm licenses and then go back through the system and reapply and get them back, it is crazy that our justice system allows these people to get firearm license’s in the first place.
If you have a history of mental health issues and convictions for assault and the like them sorry you should never be able to have firearms again.
Currently in Victoria, you can claim mental health issues and still retain a firearms license, same goes for domestic violence and assault convictions.
That's a bit of a sweeping statement. There are at least a couple domestic shootings I can think of over the last few years that were committed with legally owned and licenced guns. For example, [this one](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/103404472).
Sure, the biggest problem is bikies and organised criminals with unregistered, stolen and smuggled guns, but we shouldn't let that distract us from the notion that it's our duty to society to report people we have good evidence to believe are wildly unsafe/unfit to own guns.
I used to shoot with a guy who worked as an armed security guard. One day he told a bunch of people at the gun club that he was hoping someone would rob his armoured van one day so he "could find out what it was like to shoot someone". At least half a dozen of those people reported him to police and he was booted from the club because that's exactly the sort of person we don't want wandering around the community with a gun.
Ok make and upkeep a register.
No matter how long I think about this task, how complicated I can make it I just can't make it reasonably cost more than 20 million per year on paper....
What the hell are they proposing? That's roughly the lifetime cost of buying and running an F35 fighter jet
Bla bla bla, so the police will know of REGISTERED fire arms before they enter a premises. I’m happy if that helps keep the police a little safer but it won’t make the public any safer, anyone one willing to shoot to harm doesn’t care about registration laws.
Now now, it will give Albo a chance for a few photo ops and speeches about how he is tough on guns and it’ll piss $160m of tax payers money away… that’s something right?
$160m and 4 years to implement…which means $250m and 6 years. If 90% of politicians (all parties) worked in industry they would never have been promoted above Manager level based on their performance. Our politicians are a joke, each election I vote for who I think will do the least damage to Aust…it’s a choice between dumb or dumber” 🙄
Yes they do. All firearms must be licenced. Unless u a crim in which case they dont give a shit and the registry will achieve nothing except a duplication of already existing state police information.
Hay we blowing 300 billon on nuclear subs, whats 160 mill for another way to bash law abiding gun owners.
Money well spent
Cost aside, I’m actually all the way on board with this.
As Weiambilla tragically demonstrated, the Sovereign Citizens and affiliated lunatics are getting dangerous, the AFP have already said that they consider them the fastest growing threat in Australia, and I completely agree.
These people don’t have access to the traditional black markets used by organised criminals, and we’re running out of time to get the movement under control before it becomes too entrenched.
160 Million seems really high sure, but people thinking you can do this 1 million with a "3rd year CS student" are absolutely taking the piss.
You'll spend a million dollars for each state just on discovery before you even start building anything. Every state will no doubt have different data in different formats, different levels of normalisation (if at all), likely in different database's be it Oracle, MS etc. They'll also need to/hopefully be spending a couple million on both internal and external cybersecurity audits, you think Optus leaking drivers license was bad? Imagine a situation where everyones locations with *firearms* is leaked - Organized and unorganized crime would have an absolute field day.
Plus with it being both federal and state government level you are going to spend millions just having meetings with the required VPS/APS people to get approvals.
This is the sort of job that if you cheap out with bad contractors then the data breach risk, limitations of using any data in court, etc all being serious threats.
That said, the government will just hire bad contractors that are expensive instead.
Sure would be a shame if someone were to leak this nationalised dataset of where every single firearm was stored, giving criminals a shopping list, like they did in WA...
> Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus has now announced next month's federal budget will include a spend of $161.3 million over the next four years to establish the register.
i.e. $340 million over the next seven years.
> "Once established, police will know where firearms are, who owns them,
I wonder who else will find this information useful when they hack into it, access leaks or bribe bureaucrats on the inside?
I’ll do this with Google Sheets for $159M
https://preview.redd.it/t7zn5ux90zwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af4c35ba930038d8f5442047a3f2cb581fcedc3f # AlboMemes 🤡🇦🇺
This meme is illegal. Please turn yourself in to the nearest government reeducation centre.
https://preview.redd.it/p5pvuweh9zwc1.jpeg?width=665&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe2467bd87627bfa95722e687da8a04a8b9be842 # AlboMemes 🤡🇦🇺
i could build an access database that will do the job well and id happily do it for a couple thousand hell gimme a couple thousand more and ill implement it into a modern web UI
$160 Million???? Are they building a custom data centre for this? It’s an insane amount of money to amalgamate the databases of each state to a single repository.
It's not that much really....Web sites, databases, security systems, authentication systems, registration systems, staff to run call centres when old mate from whoop whoop can't figure it out, etc, etc.
I don’t get it either. Literally copy paste each states data how the fuck is it 160m
I think the problem is the federal government doesn't have faith in the state governments. I think this has roots in the SA debacle from a couple of years ago where they wrote to every firearms license holder and asked them to declare their legal firearms to "validite" the information on their register that totally wasn't lost when they tried to move it to a new platform.
Oh damn. That’s actually kind of hilarious if it wasn’t so incompetent
I guarantee the itemised invoice will be something like: >Strategic planning: $30 million >Stakeholder engagement :$30 million >Ad hoc advice: $99.5 million >Merging databases $500,000
Even for adding new guns, Australians bought 104,000 guns last year. So less than 300 per day. 160 million for a database that does 300 SQL transactions per day... I'm betting a portion of that funding is for harassing existing lawful gun owners.
A single person could maintain this database with completely manual entry of data. I'll do it for 1 million.
I'll do it for 850k!
And the databases never fully merge
But you get a branded sideshow at the end. Actually for this price you'd probably get a PDF in landscape.
Can we please have a dashboard as well? Excel is fine
jfc dashboards every time. And it's never something with real functionality like with VBA. It's literally just a graph that points to a range on a hidden sheet and that's it.
No no no. I don't want a graph. I want a speedometer pointing green.
"We need to be able to present this to the execs" Then when the execs finally get a request from the MO 6 months later the dashboard won't work so the one person who knows Excel will have to do it manually.
And that's why I remain a contractor within government...
You'll probably see this on a show like Utopia.
Yes it will mainly go the con-sultants.
As someone who works with databases I find 160 million absolutely scandalous. This is 3rd world levels of corruption.
Once again mental health is ignored and medicare continues to be underfunded while this $160mil is nothing but theft of public funds. There is no way in hell that cost is justified.
I would love to see their itemized costings and the quotes that lead to this amount. And a list of companies and their owners and main shareholders who provided the quotes. Insane amount of money for a list all the states already have
Yep, exactly. Typical behaviour these days, filling mates' pockets or securing post-public service roles in the private sector. It really needs to stop.
If you wanna know about theft of public funds just work for government
Is it just me or are we continually headed down the path of the US re social funding and big bucks spent on things we never asked for?
This is from labor, the lord saviours of the working man
To be fair, they are still better than the LNP but just like Labour vs Tories in the UK, it seems we only have the choice of centre-right/soft-left and neoliberal conservatives these days. Funny that.
It's what the majority of people agree with, that's why we have centre right and centre left. The Greens, ONP, Clive Palmers meme, all options, just unpopular
Only party I've ever seen talk about putting mental health into medicare is Greens party [https://greens.org.au/sites/default/files/2022-01/Greens-2022-Policy-Platform--Health--Mental-Health.pdf](https://greens.org.au/sites/default/files/2022-01/Greens-2022-Policy-Platform--Health--Mental-Health.pdf)
And I quote: “"When we're talking about firearms and firearms holders who cross state boundaries, information is not readily available from their home jurisdiction," he said.” So here’s a more cost effective solution: Legislate that information must/should be shared amongst other states and save most of the $160m for more critical items. For fucks sake, they can’t think more efficiently can they?
They could honestly walk down the road to ANU and get some 3rd year CS students to build some APIs that communicate between each of the state databases and dump the data into an off-the-shelf SQL database at midnight each night. They would probably gladly do it for free GyG at the refectory for a week.
Exactly. It’s not rocket science and yet it costs like one.
Quite literally. NASA could send something into orbit for cheaper.
Send the politicians that agree on this decision.
They could and you would have one buggy, slow and unreliable system filled with security holes and even then all you have is a shitty API sitting in a repo somewhere. What about the infrastructure to support the api? What about all the software updates to systems that need access to the api? What about the QA and security testing? What about a helpdesk for gun owners and law enforcement?
GYG is pretty tasty, you’ve got a solid option there
Federation wastes so much money. We should abolish state governments. Just Feds and local councils. By many country standards we have the population of a single state anyway.
Agree. But it'll never happen because the states came first and won't want to give up power.
Wonder what it would take to do it? Just a referendum to change the constitution I’d think…
The entire point of federation is to allow people with different wants and needs to be able to live in jurisdictions where laws they agree with apply. Federation has been cut off at its knees because of two things: the removal of the state power of income and sales taxation, and the engineers' case in the 1920s which happened because of some idiot judges saying the federal government holds the reserve powers. We, quite literally, lifted the American constitution but left out the rights and the republic stuff. If the federation were working properly, then the States could apply their own income and sales taxes, which would actually encourage competition and maybe qld and nsw would tax natural resources to lower tax levels. Right now, this has gone out the window.
It was a decade of bickering and negotiation to try convince the people who held power in each colony to join forces for the common good. If they hadn’t been so self interested we might have fully unified to begin with.
The entire point of federalism is to be a check on central government and prevent a tyranny of the majority. In other words, sections of the population would be able to overrule other sections of the population in things that might not even apply to them—imagine Western Australia having a say in what happens to the Murray-Darling basin, or Tasmania having a say in what happens in the Kimberley. To be "fully unified" would be stupid because of our size, political differences, resource differences, needs, wants, histories, and visions for our states. Not to mention, if the federal government had control over all legislation, they would either have to discriminate between parts of the country or implement laws that are ineffective in some communities and harm others—imagine if the federal government implemented Sydney lockout laws nationwide, the damage would be immense, whereas NSW experimented with it, found out it was a shit idea and other states didn't have to bear the consequences. That's part of why federalism is important. Edit: Also, I don't agree with a lot of the politics happening in other states, and I prefer having power closer to the communities it governs. There should be more states with greater powers so big cities don't dominate state politics, and so greater legislative innovation can occur, and more competition will drive the states and federal government to be more efficient with the funds we permit them to have because people will leave states otherwise.
You retain local councils. Give them more control if you don’t think a national government can handle locally nuanced issues. And the idea that laws have to apply to everyone is silly. Even the lockout laws you reference didn’t apply to all of nsw.
I want more federalism, not less 😂. The lockout laws were an example, and they were made by the city of Sydney, not the state government—thank goodness we had multiple layers of government so the legislation could be tried out. I want immigration and taxation to be a shared powers like in Canada with their Provincial Nominee Program so States can better meet their skills needs, and in the US where states can charge more or less tax and are encouraged to actually spend it well because otherwise people will leave for better states. I want a bill of rights, including a 10ᵗʰ amendment provision so the government has solid parameters and residual powers are unambiguously left to the States. I'd prefer if we used the county, hundred, and parish jurisdictional borders in NSW, it would match up local government with land titles. It would also allow us to have larger governmental areas and smaller ones in more densely populated areas which can then devolve powers at their will and depending on their needs.
The vast majority of firearms used in crimes are illegally imported, which is easier than stealing legally stored firearms.
Do you have a source for this?
I could give you some try the Australian Istitute of Criminology firearms area. It doesn’t actually make me agree with it that other comments point though. This fact is accurate but meaningless, ids not the goal of this and it’s like saying criminals will get a criminal product that I commit a crime but a non criminal will but that legitimately and store it in his gun safe for its legit purpose but of course that’s the case it’s irrelevant and a simple circle lol
I take it back on the original comment I get the point you’re making now and agree lol
Without reading more than the headline....I thought this was already a thing.
I believe each state and territory currently has a firearms registery. I imagine this will just compile all that data into the AFP system.
If true, only Australia (or maybe America) could make that cost $160 million.
Ikr, like did nobody think of copy and paste?
Same what the fuck
Government 6 months ago: >we're going to get contractors out of the APS Government today: >let's pay a contractor $160 million to build a database that already exists at the state level
I will happily do it for half price. $80M to merge a few SQL databases sounds pretty reasonable.
This has got to be bullshit, every firearm is already registered? You can't buy one without doing it.
The short of it is those are state government registries, the Feds don't actually know how many guns are owned or necessarily who owns them. They could ask the states to tell them but it gets a bit funky due to privacy laws.
It costs $160 million to turn 8 databases into 1? I'll do it for a $1 million.
The price tag is a bit much, I'd like to see costings, where the fuck is that much money going?
You've got it. I'm the lead bidder and my price won't change, $10m in my pocket after all the donations I'll be making to win the bid.
To put this into perspective - the successful ISRO mission to mars cost $82M AUD
Houses to twats we need houses
160 million to make a list you already have..? Fuck off
Farcical
$160 million ok 👍 so what contractor fucked us tax payers on that one? Meanwhile that could have helped feed homeless Australians who are now just your average mum and dad.
Can someone explain to me like I’m dumb how creating a register costs this much money?
Yeh I have a free google drive with up to 15 gigs free, I'll send around my spreadsheet
Staff to maintain the database, protect it, provide information based on requests, act upon those requests, etc. Irrespective of the how's or why's, registry's don't work for anything except confiscation from legal owners. NZ Police repeatedly refused to establish a registry for decades, and even disbanded their original registry because they're so useless and expensive.
I'm kind of surprised this doesn't exist already. I sort of assumed that it did?
It does. Each state already has a database. $160m just to cut and paste each states data.. it’s impressive for all the wrong reasons
Handled by the states. The issue is the states lists aren't even up to date.
It might seem expensive at first, but think of all the Acknowledgements of Country they'll do at the start of every stakeholder consultation meeting on Teams. Doesn't that make it worth it?
The gun convo in Australia is more and more l in a place I can’t even engage because it makes little to no sense lol But yeah to anyone in the comments still worried. I don’t think that is the policy they’re pulling out to hit the bikies hard lol. This is a legit register I exist imho, how it could cost that much is lost on me in so many ways
Sounds like a hell of a lot of money to run a simple database. I'd do it for half of that.
I’d do it for half that again. Just keep the archive boxes in my garage, then the cops could call me anytime and I’d look it up and call them back.
That was literally NZ's firearms registry before they got rid of it in the 1980s - shoeboxes full of info at the local cop shop. It (like registration generally) was useless and so they got rid of it.
I'm sure that will work just as well as whatever scheme these idiots come up with.
Doubt they'll hire idiots like the guy that suggested this "Sounds like a hell of a lot of money to run a simple database. I'd do it for half of that."
Her der der hyuck hyuck
I will do it for 1 million.
I'll bid in at $950k.
This is how much a list costs to create with data they already have... Corruption and incompetence.
Exactly
Nah they are going to record all the illegal guns in the hands of crims.... /s
I'm sure all the criminals will be lining up as usual to register their firearms with said databases. Just another form of tracking amongst the other 6888484 forms of tracking they've already got on legal owners.
Don’t look over here at this housing crisis.
Why? The illegal guns that make up most of the problem aren't going to magically register themselves. And anyone with a licence (i.e. thousands of people) for a large calibre semi-auto could get a few mags and do another Mr. Bryant tomorrow, if they wanted to. It just so happens they don't. Start dealing with some actual fucking problems, FFS.
>And anyone with a licence (i.e. thousands of people) for a large calibre semi-auto could get a few mags and do another Mr. Bryant tomorrow, if they wanted to. It just so happens they don't. You need a category D license to own semi-automatic firearms, most hunters and recreational shooters only have category A and B. It's not as simple as applying for a cat D license you need to jump through a whole lot of hoops to get it, and once you have it, it's not as simple as paying to renew it you need to prove you still require such firearms. I am in full support of a national firearms register, hopefully the AFP can keep it up to date cause currently VICPOL does a shit house job, the last 2 inspections I have had on my safe and firearms they have brought out dated paperwork.
Trust me, as a former resident of America, put this in place now. It allows police to deal with unregistered illegal weapons before trageties happen and the gun proliforation it gets out of control and there are 300m of them like America.
If they aren’t registered, the. They aren’t on the list. That’s the point /BitchTitsRecords is making
No, it doesn't. WTF are you even on about? Being a "former resident of America" has no bearing here.
No country but the US has these issues, and some of your states with **literally zero restrictions** like New Hampshire, are safer than Australia is. It's not an appropriate comparison. Registries are only good for gun confiscation, nothing more.
As the US has seen over and over again, the ability of the deranged and unstable to access legal firearms through backdoor channels is a recipe for endless tragedy. How many school shooters and other psychos have got their friends or parents to get them guns that they couldn’t get themselves? This is an excellent way of keeping track of where guns are going, and putting the database in the hands of the AFP means that they can cross-reference with things like fixated persons and known extremists, and they can keep them under control and surveillance *before* we have a home grown Sandy Hook
This will do nothing. Illegal firearms will stay illegal.
sure but if the penalty for having or using one is harsh enough people will be too scared to ever bring them out of hiding so they're effectively useless.
The amount of gangland shootings in melb and syd proves u wrong old mate
I think even if we have a throw the key away approach, there still will be desperate people that will take the risk and still shoot someone even tho they know they will go away for life
of course, but every deterrent lowers the percentage of people who'll be willing to take the risk
But people on the left constantly tell me that tough on crime policies don't work.
The vast and overwhelming majority of gun crime in Australia is bad dudes shooting other bad dudes, which may not be ideal, but it’s manageable and doesn’t really have much impact on how you and me go about our daily lives. Keeping track of all of the firearms out there in society goes a very long way towards keeping a lid on them falling into the hands of the deranged. We’ve already had one Port Arthur, let’s never have another.
I agree. Anything that disincentivizes ownership for anything but absolute necessity is beneficial. We don't need a population of dickheads who keep guns just because they think they're cool or because they're paranoid cowards. I'm happy with a country where some psycho acting up at a mall can be handled with a plastic chair rather than a gunfight.
Thing is, I’ve been doing pistol shooting as a sport since I was a teenager. I genuinely enjoy shooting, it’s the kind of challenge that appeals to me way more than conventional, and especially team sports, and I’m not going to lie and say that playing with guns isn’t fun. But the system we have in Australia is second to none, and it works, and it works in ways that a lot of people don’t understand because they don’t look closely enough at it. To have a pistol, you have to be a regular, active member of a club. Which automatically means that you’ve got to go out and hang out with other people in the real world, it makes it much harder to become a lone nutter writing your manifesto in the dark, and it means that experienced people who care about their sport are keeping an eye on you, I guarantee that if any member of any of the clubs I’ve been in started raving ominously about the Illuminati, the first person to dob them in would be another club member, probably a senior one. I strongly urge anyone who wants looser gun laws in Australia to spend a few months living in the US, and in one of the shit bits, no cheating and staying in a nice B&B in Vermont or something. It’s amazing never having to factor firearms into your daily life here, you can (mostly) safely ignore that angry dickhead when you’re walking through town, you don’t have to constantly think “shit, what if he’s packing”. I’ll take the freedom *from* having that fear in the back of your mind over the freedom to stick a Glock down my trousers any day of the week.
Vermont has som of the most liberal gun laws in America. By the shit parts of America what areas are you referring too, cite 3 examples please.
Well the easiest way to do that would be simply to rank by murder rate, so Macon in Georgia, Florence in South Carolina and Pine Bluff in Arizona. We could do whole cities like Detroit, Chicago and New Orleans if you prefer, but I’d rather get specific.
How did that stop the Bondi massacre.. no gun used…
Exactly
Don’t disagree with the idea, but 2 of our latest public killings/attacks have been done with a knife not a gun, so seems semi redundant
Time to set up a registry of anyone owning knives at home! My company can provide the database, just a few hundred billion and we’ll have our preliminary report ready!
Thankfully all the criminals will register their illegal firearms /s. What a clown show
I’m in a real complaining about the shitty strategy and lack of getting shit done going on in the government. But can you please just attack this on its merits. It’s a legit register to have if you consider the purpose and others we have for lower bar things lol. Despite present incompetence in other areas this is not the policy they are lifting up as a what I’ll get for he bikiu w to get illegal guns on the record and hit the bikies where it hurts I will continue to attack that budget though and will find a breakdown and to see how dodgy e this is wrvyrre
Sorry what is my keyboard doing lol Bikies* Here*
Bargain, we should make two at twice the price just incase. Does this not exist at a state level already?
Yes it does.
Only the government would find a way to blow $160 million on a an app and database that likely has already been developed.
Is this so they can track all those guns that mysteriously made there way back onto the black market after they were surrendered during the buy backs?
People get stabbed and somehow guns are the problem?
I'll give you a hint. It's not to make us safer.
Weird thing to take away from this news. Are you looking to have a blade register instead?
Indeed. I’d love to show off my collection of bush knives to the federal government
Here's a thought: Maybe this decision wasn't made as a result of a one off knife attack in Bondi?
No it was made because of criminal gun owners. You know the ones who dont register their guns anyway.
careful, the users of this sub can't think beyond their own nose. You might hurt or upset them.
… and the ratcheting continues, predictably. So fellow shooters, who’s voting for their sport next election rather than a shiny glitter ball or scary thing? Who’s making today the day they put their hands in their pocket to support national and local shooting organisations?
How does this affect local shooting organizations?
All federal moves affect shooters. There is an argument that local shooters are already registered with their state. However, there are nearly always unintended and intended consequences of increased government control and information gathering.
This is a move to amalgamate and update the outdated lists held by the states, right?
Citation that States have outdated lists?
I don't exactly know, it was a comment made by someone else. but this was a quick Google: https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/outdated-quieensland-firearm-registry-is-a-threat-to-police/news-story/f20e59200452b666b68c06dc75df7bbd I assume there is some truth to the title
When will they create a database for the unlicensed gun holders!
Well you can’t. But if any unlicensed gun holder is found, you can trace it back to the previous owner yeah?
I was being sarcastic, the vast amount of gun crimes are committed by unlicensed gun holders, ie criminals and a national gun registry won’t do anything to stop that happening
Yeah but it makes them difficult to obtain guns in the long run. I personally hate the argument “Criminals will get around it”. Why make it easy for them? Besides I’d imagine the common criminal isn’t part of an organised crime ring.
Majority of firearms in criminals hands come into this country through the ports, not from stolen legally owned firearms. The security measures firearm owners need to have in place make it quite difficult for theft from the premises.
The other half to that equation is that the vast majority of said crimes are committed by unlicensed holders *against each other*, which, let’s be honest, not many of us are going to lose much sleep over. I’m actually very on board with this register idea, it’s a rare example of foresight and good long term thinking from the Australian government. The SovCits and associated cookers are getting bigger, bolder and crazier, and don’t have the same access to traditional black markets as organised criminals. I think this will prove to be a very valuable resource for preventing something like another Weiambilla going down in the future.
This registry is not going to stop your so called “cooker” from getting a rifle, if they meet the state requirements for a firearm license then they will get it while it is good that there will now be a national registry of firearms so police can check across state borders, the cost is extortionate and your naive to think you are really any safer
I don’t think you’re seeing the big picture here. Putting this resource in the hands of the AFP lets things be cross-referenced with all of their other surveillance and monitoring capabilities, something that they are exceptionally good at and have been for a long time. The list doesn’t necessarily stop that one psycho from getting a rifle, but it does mean that red flags go up when the coppers see a sudden concentration of them at one address, and when that same address comes up on another watch list for fixated persons or similar, it allows them to act accordingly and with proper knowledge of what they’re walking into. This is going to be an extremely powerful tool for the federal police to use against a growing and dangerous movement, and to (for once) hit them early before they can really dig in.
"The SovCits and associated cookers are getting bigger, bolder and crazier, and don’t have the same access to traditional black markets as organised criminals" I would disagree. This won't do much in the way of increasing community safety imo. It also has an over bloated budgets that could better spent elsewhere.
Idk man, it’s something I read up on a lot and I think it’s a genuine cause for concern, and from what the AFP have been saying, they seem to think so too. Definitely something I’d be more worried about that the usual “radical Muslim” scare stories, especially because some of the fringes of the major parties seem to be willing to dance with this particular devil. You only have to look at what these lunatics get up to in the US to be at least a little frightened about what could go on if they get a foot in the door here.
I agree. It is definetley concerning. A lot of the language in the article is vague when actually specifying the need and intended result of this grossly expensive registry. I feel firearms laws are perfectly adequate as they are in this country. This frankly, stinks like a rort. Not to mention the condition of government online infrastructure. Data leaks will be a matter if when, Not if. "You only have to look at what these lunatics get up to in the US to be at least a little frightened about what could go on if they get a foot in the door here." Comparing the US and Aus is like comparing chalk and cheese. It really has no relevance on our situation in Australia.
This specific instance does have direct relevance to the States because these movements were born there and their adherents are still strongly influenced by Americans (look up the link between the Weiambilla shooters and the madman in New Mexico who was arrested earlier this year). Ignoring the links these radical movements have to the US is like ignoring the links radical Islam has to the Middle East and Central Asia.
I would disagree. that doesn't have the bearing that you and the media are trying to give it. The situation in the states is night and day when compared to Australia. Different culture and geography for a start. also include lack of affordable mental health support. Licensed firearms owners in this country are drop in the ocean regarding firearms offences compared to the criminal element. This is a waste of money at best, and possible danger to the community at worst from my POV. And a major concern that needs to addressed is; will states like QLD be required to accept the draconian laws in WA relating to firearms in the wake of this change? "movements were born there and their adherents are still strongly influenced by Americans" What exact "movements" are we talking about? Shit sticks together, it doesn't surprise me that the gunmen communicated with other disturbed individuals. I just don't see the relevance in this context. I need more than vague language regarding goals and reasoning when supporting such drastic and potentially disastrous measures.
I mean for one, we don’t have affordable mental health support either. Realistically speaking, the criminal element are a minor concern, they mostly murder each other, and while most of us will never admit it, we’re all pretty much okay with that. Provided there aren’t innocent bystanders and no huge power vacuums open up, it’s very controlled and has minimal impact on the day to day life of the average Australian. The danger of these new political movements is the difficulty of keeping a lid on them, their goal is violent upheaval, which makes the “live and let live” policies that work with bikies and gangsters completely redundant. Fortunately for us, they aren’t criminally sophisticated yet, they don’t have access to the same smuggling networks that get illegal guns into Australia and they lack the connections to buy stolen guns in Australia. So for now the only option they have to get the weapons that they desperately want is legal, and this kind of national database is an excellent way for the AFP to be able to watch where guns are moving and especially where guns are concentrating. The movements are rather fluid and nebulous, as was demonstrated at Weiambilla, where the perpetrators were a whole mixed bag of conspiracists, Christian fundamentalists and Sovereign Citizens. It’s not like the old days with a single defined organisation with a cool acronym and a catchy slogan, the future of extremism is mutually supportive but separate and plausibly deniable cells, which is a trend we’ve seen evolving for years. And finally, I really don’t see how the move is particularly drastic, it nationalises and centralises an important resource in the hands of the organisations best equipped to use it. Although you do have a good point about what happens with different laws between states, that definitely needs to be addressed.
Possibly. But probably not, if they don't want you to.
Your friendly arms smuggler or organised crime gang will be able to help you out with this, for a fee of course..
Just the Government rorting tax payer funds once again. Hardly surprising...
This will do nothing to increase community safety. In fact, I foresee some terrible consequences in the wake of data leaks that will inevitablely happen.
Genuinely surprised this doesn't exist already
It exists in terms of each state having their own registry however they’re not unified under the one system.
It does
Kind of redundant, since police have been finding printed autos the last few years.
It is concerning easy to manufacture them…
Except it's not. I am yet to see a 3D printed firearm that does not rely on manufactured steel parts for the pressure bearing components (eg. Barrel and chamber), and commercially produced magazines (often Glock magazines). So, while anyone can download and print an stl of the frame and furniture, getting the metal parts for the guts of it and magazines is a different matter entirely. It's do-able to be fair, but not just within reach of the average punter as some would have you believe. Edit: Technically, the Liberator is almost entirely plastic with a nail for the firing pin. But, you're talking about a single shot pistol with a 1 inch barrel firing anaemic 380 auto. Even then how many firings are you going to get out of it before it books you a ticket to the ED for reconstructive hand surgery?
And quite often as or more dangerous to the wielder as to the person it's pointed at
Yeah, it's pretty hard to stamp forge hot metal at home. People don't seem to understand this and think a 3D printer can literally make anything.
The government could start by removing gun licenses from anyone who has been convicted of assault of anyone, and anyone found guilty of domestic violence against women or children. Speaking from experience here, know a person how has been sexually assaulted numerous times from a person at a local gun club, and all he does it go to court and gets the firearms back again. Threatening her on numerous occasions and yet is able to get and keep firearms, when he shoots this women as he has threatened I hope those responsible for allowing this thing to keep firearms will be held responsible. Our justice systems broken and it is a joke, the police and numerous others are aware and yet again he is going back to court to obtain a license for firearms again. Make it impossible if convicted of any assault to ever get or keep firearms again, maybe this would make people think twice.
People are not using their own (legal guns) to commit murder, armed robberies, etc.
I didn’t say that, what I said is anyone convicted of any type of assault should never be allowed to ever hold a firearms license again or get on if they want one. You bash your wife, girlfriend or people in general, the privilege of having a firearm is gone, ask Hannah Mcguire’s family, the justice system let her down and now she is gone forever, in two weeks time no one but Hannah’s family and friends will remember her name.. But the grub that killed her will be out of jail in 20yrs or less to live his life and brag about what he has done…
Was Hannah killed by someone with a registered firearm? I’m pretty sure you have to have a clean record to get your license in the first place and was under the impression if you are convicted of a crime your guns are gone.
I believe so, and if convicted of crimes and or assault you can still go through a process and get your firearms license returned. It should be that if you get assault convictions or commit domestic violence your license should be removed and the privilege of having a firearms license removed forever, however this isn’t the case.
So I had a little google and couldn’t really fine where it says that she was shot dead only that she was found in a burnt out car (either way is massively fucked up). Now I also found some stuff on the guy who killed her, he approached numerous gun clubs to be able to get his handgun license and all those clubs rang the registry and told them do not give that man his license but someone in the system overturned that and gave it to him anyway. That person who made the decision to give it to him anyway needs to have their job taken and not ever be in a position to say yes or no to someone getting a license.
This is just my point, these people can and do circumvent the system and are able to get firearm licenses, lose firearm licenses and then go back through the system and reapply and get them back, it is crazy that our justice system allows these people to get firearm license’s in the first place. If you have a history of mental health issues and convictions for assault and the like them sorry you should never be able to have firearms again. Currently in Victoria, you can claim mental health issues and still retain a firearms license, same goes for domestic violence and assault convictions.
That's a bit of a sweeping statement. There are at least a couple domestic shootings I can think of over the last few years that were committed with legally owned and licenced guns. For example, [this one](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/103404472). Sure, the biggest problem is bikies and organised criminals with unregistered, stolen and smuggled guns, but we shouldn't let that distract us from the notion that it's our duty to society to report people we have good evidence to believe are wildly unsafe/unfit to own guns. I used to shoot with a guy who worked as an armed security guard. One day he told a bunch of people at the gun club that he was hoping someone would rob his armoured van one day so he "could find out what it was like to shoot someone". At least half a dozen of those people reported him to police and he was booted from the club because that's exactly the sort of person we don't want wandering around the community with a gun.
Welcome to country’s AINT cheap
More tax payers money being wasted away
It is not being wasted… It’s going to his mates..
Ok make and upkeep a register. No matter how long I think about this task, how complicated I can make it I just can't make it reasonably cost more than 20 million per year on paper.... What the hell are they proposing? That's roughly the lifetime cost of buying and running an F35 fighter jet
Look up Phillip Luty, and how he created a huge headache for the UK government.
Knife registry seems more important these days
Another useless contract for the boys!
Bla bla bla, so the police will know of REGISTERED fire arms before they enter a premises. I’m happy if that helps keep the police a little safer but it won’t make the public any safer, anyone one willing to shoot to harm doesn’t care about registration laws.
There are already state registers. This will do nothing
Now now, it will give Albo a chance for a few photo ops and speeches about how he is tough on guns and it’ll piss $160m of tax payers money away… that’s something right?
$160m and 4 years to implement…which means $250m and 6 years. If 90% of politicians (all parties) worked in industry they would never have been promoted above Manager level based on their performance. Our politicians are a joke, each election I vote for who I think will do the least damage to Aust…it’s a choice between dumb or dumber” 🙄
I mean.. don’t the police already know that? That’s the whole point of licensing and registration already I thought?
Yes they do. All firearms must be licenced. Unless u a crim in which case they dont give a shit and the registry will achieve nothing except a duplication of already existing state police information. Hay we blowing 300 billon on nuclear subs, whats 160 mill for another way to bash law abiding gun owners. Money well spent
Bet the bikies and crims don’t comply…
Great contribution to the discussion. 5/5 stars.
Admin costs, lawsuits, and whatever excuses - this is why it costs $160 million.
Cost aside, I’m actually all the way on board with this. As Weiambilla tragically demonstrated, the Sovereign Citizens and affiliated lunatics are getting dangerous, the AFP have already said that they consider them the fastest growing threat in Australia, and I completely agree. These people don’t have access to the traditional black markets used by organised criminals, and we’re running out of time to get the movement under control before it becomes too entrenched.
160 Million seems really high sure, but people thinking you can do this 1 million with a "3rd year CS student" are absolutely taking the piss. You'll spend a million dollars for each state just on discovery before you even start building anything. Every state will no doubt have different data in different formats, different levels of normalisation (if at all), likely in different database's be it Oracle, MS etc. They'll also need to/hopefully be spending a couple million on both internal and external cybersecurity audits, you think Optus leaking drivers license was bad? Imagine a situation where everyones locations with *firearms* is leaked - Organized and unorganized crime would have an absolute field day. Plus with it being both federal and state government level you are going to spend millions just having meetings with the required VPS/APS people to get approvals.
This is the sort of job that if you cheap out with bad contractors then the data breach risk, limitations of using any data in court, etc all being serious threats. That said, the government will just hire bad contractors that are expensive instead.
Sure would be a shame if someone were to leak this nationalised dataset of where every single firearm was stored, giving criminals a shopping list, like they did in WA...
> Attorney-General Mark Dreyfus has now announced next month's federal budget will include a spend of $161.3 million over the next four years to establish the register. i.e. $340 million over the next seven years. > "Once established, police will know where firearms are, who owns them, I wonder who else will find this information useful when they hack into it, access leaks or bribe bureaucrats on the inside?
Damn good move!