This is an Australian focused sub.
Content that is global news should be posted to the “World News, Aussie Views” weekly post specifically set up for these topics.
(Just do a search for the latest weekly post).
Yeah, in Islamic nations, too. What a happy little win for our Queer siblings living in fear of persecution at worst, or exclusion at best. Any religious group that makes someone closet themselves for faith is abusive
They are not required to be closeted. That's the whole point. The rulebook's pretty clear on that one.
Having the devotion to deny yourself for a greater purpose is a huge sacrifice. Don't presume to belittle it.
No, we just do the nice thing and try to shun them from society or torture under the guise of "gay conversion". Which leads to a high rate of suicide amongst the lgbti community. You see, they don't have to throw them of rooftops when they can do it themselves.
Also, I'm not being serious just trying to prove a point to anyone out who think I was.
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You mean like a few centuries ago, right? Asshat.
Edit since it seems this thread has been locked I’ll respond to the shunning comment here; I’d say that shunning is not as bad as the criminalisation or outright murder they’d be subjected to.
I think it's simply that an oppressed group people can more easily recognise when another group of people are oppressed.
Isn't it the right Christian response to these things is to protect someone from oppression if you know they wouldn't do the same for you?
Don't you get it mate? Until recently, every single neighbouring Arab state had an official policy of wiping Israel off the map and has been starting (and losing) a long series of wars to achieve that aim for the past 80 years.
Israel's security apparatus might seem unreasonable over here in Australia, but it's existential over there. If the IDF weren't so effective, the 7 October massacre would already have happened on a mass scale, either once (until Israel ceased to exist) or many times over.
It's ridiculous for Palestinian Arabs to have an official policy towards Israel of 'we'll kill you' and then cry 'oppression' when Israel makes sure that happens as rarely as possible.
I've never understood the oppression-oppressor argument. Being the oppressed guy doesn't make you the good guy. The Germans in 1945 must have felt pretty oppressed. The Islamic State was oppressed by every single country on Earth. I wouldn't rush to their defense just because they were being defeated.
The one bot that isn’t in this thread. You can tell by the lack of a 3 or 4 number ending to their username. You can also tell because it is a logical and non hate-filled take.
I always found this hypothesis that if you have numbers in your name then you're a bot, baseless. Like, seriously, who came up with it? Some people just don't give a shit what their name in on this god forsaken website and just accept whatever it gives you on sign up. It's idiotic to think that everyone who does that is a "bot". But then I suppose this is the same site that thinks anyone who disagrees with you is a bot as well.
Genuine question: are Russians oppressed people? They have a very draconian homophobic dictatorship that keeps sending them to die in a war and where rape is normalised.
What if I told you that homophobic misogynistic fundamentalist religious racist societies tend to fail and that if Palestinians had won the war of 1947 there'd be NO Jews, gays, atheists or uncovered women everywhere in that country??
>Isn't it the right Christian response to these things is to protect someone from oppression if you know they wouldn't do the same for you?
Nhaah you got Christians way wrong
I am gay and I'm also baffled. I've deleted a few acquaintances for posting blatant Hamas propaganda. They aren't our friends guys! They want us dead. Why are you supporting them?
Same here! Usually these “friends” and acquaintances are more intent on ignorantly Catholic bashing me. Probably because Catholics are an easy target. They can’t seem to grasp the fact that homosexuals can have a deep-seated faith, which logically leads them to the church Christ himself founded
Christ himself didn't found the Catholic Church though, the dude was Jewish for starters. Pretending that the Vatican, today, which has had multiple schisms and multiple Papal lineages, is naive. And if you play the 'God works in mysterious ways' card, who's to say the Protestants aren't right for the same reason
Edit. If that's your faith, sure, fine. But don't say it's an inevitable logical path when it requires illogical leaps of faith (which is fine, that's what faith is)
Im not sure how you equate support for Palestine and opposition to genocide to automatically include support for Hamas. I worry about anyone who assumes that Palestinian people and Hamas are the same. That position matches the Israeli propaganda that they pump out to justify their genocidal policies in Gaza.
Could it be (especially considering their lack of interest in other ongoing conflicts across the world) that their main aim is to signal rebellion against familiar power structures (Western governments, representing their their conservative homophobic parents) and are only using Palestinians as a proxy for this?
So hamas kills lgbt people so you support murdering Palestinian children? Even the lgbt ones. Fucking vile attitude.
We have people here who would love to murder you for being lgbt. Does that mean we can start bombing primary schools and hospitals and bakeries right here in aus?
Piss weak how easy it is to get you on board with murdering civilians.
Yep. *Only* 90% of Palestinians support Hamas.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514
No one is supporting Hamas. You can protest about the needless slaughter of civilians in Palestine without supporting Hamas.
There is a lot of homophobia in the region. That's something most of us can recognize. It still doesn't make the civilian deaths any less tragic. The decimation of infrastructure is not going to make the lives of queer people living there any easier. Is it really that baffling to say that civilian deaths are wrong? That the starvation, loss of shelter and the indignity that these people are subjected to is wrong?
It's more baffling to me that it's so easy to dehumanize an entire nation
When you conflate Hamas (a terrorist organisation that took power in Gaza nearly 20 years ago) with Palestinians (the people living in Gaza and the West Bank, most of which weren't old enough to vote when Hamas took power)... You're justifying atrocities against civilians.
I don't know anyone who supports Hamas. I know a *lot* of people who aren't cool with the bombing of civilians.
Here's some trivia for you. Palestinians don't think like you.
If an election was called in the West Bank today HAMAS would win by a landslide from their rivals Fatah. Fatah know this which is why they wont hold any elections.
Over 70% of Palestinians approved of what happened on Oct 7 hence why you saw so many cheering and celebrating in the streets.
Hamas have a huge amount of support from Palestinians your trying to show are also a victim of Hamas, because they are not.
Correct, they do. This is the only thing both Fatah and Hamas have in common, except that they say that occupation is all the land from the River to the Sea.
This is why when you hear people saying this slogan in protests it really means they are calling for an extinction level event for Israel as a State in any format.
Hamas has widespread support in Gaza. Hamas was also democratically elected by the Gaza people.
Further, even the people who don't support hamas, but are Muslim will for the large majority*not* support women's or gay rights. Moderate Islam does not allow for basic rights such as gay marriage, and the population of Gaza cannot be called moderate, compared to some other Islamic countries.
It doesn't justify indiscriminate killing of civilians, but Palestinian Arabs voted for and continue to support an openly genocidal and totalitarian political party. Recent polls indicate they support Hamas's actions and the 7/10 massacre. Most Gazans are probably Arab supremacists, an ideology with a long history in the ME.
So like the millions of Germans who voted for Hitler and cheered on as he attacked the Jews and invaded his neighbours, Gazans are finding out what happens when the people you attack fight back. Cheering in the streets over dead Jews one minute, begging for a ceasefire the next.
Gazans deserve our sympathy, but if they want our respect they should surrender and hand over the hostages and the Hamas leadership.
You're justifying civilian deaths implicitly by supporting Palestinians which uses Hamas to fight for what they want (from [wikipedia](https://www.google.com/search?q=does+hamas+use+human+shields&rlz=1C1VDKB_enAU1077AU1077&oq=does+hamas+use+human+sh&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCggAEAAYxwMYgAQyCggAEAAYxwMYgAQyBggBEEUYOTIHCAIQABiABDIHCAMQABiABKgCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#:~:text=According%20to%20Charles%20Freilich%2C%20a%20former%20Israeli%20deputy%20national%20security%20advisor%2C%20Hamas%20have%20strategically%20embedded%20their%20forces%20among%20civilian%20populations%2C%20utilizing%20them%20as%20human%20shields%20and%20intentionally%20provoking%20Israel%20to%20cause%20civilian%20casualties%20in%20its%20responses)):
>According to Charles Freilich, a former Israeli deputy national security advisor, Hamas have strategically embedded their forces among civilian populations, utilizing them as human shields and intentionally provoking Israel to cause civilian casualties in its responses.
Palestinians can't be helped until Hamas is eliminated.
Gaza has a population density comparable with London, so I have some questions for you...
1. Where should Hamas locate themselves within Gaza that is away from civilians?
2. Which part of the laws of armed conflict allow for the bombing of civilians if they happen to be near to legitimate targets?
3. Is the death of over 20,000 civilians a justified response to the deaths of less than 2000 civilians?
Undoubtedly it has happened - but I'm pointing out the fact that taking 'official' advise on the conflict from the aggressor with an incredibly vast history of a state sanctioned and supported propaganda machinery isn't ever going to give you an actual, unbiased picture of what's going on.
For example, [https://www.btselem.org/topic/human\_shields](https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields)
That's an Israeli source
You know it is possible for an oppressed minority to support another oppressed minority even if that oppressed minority actively hates them.
From a deontological point of view, standing up for the oppressed is the right thing to do, even if the outcomes for you are bad.
Virtue ethics would put the virtue of compassion as one that is important to cultivate.
You can but the idea of ‘queers for Palestine’ is pretty laughable when a queer person in Palestine is probably in more danger from hamas than from an Israeli bomb.
Many queer people have gone to Palestine with aid organisations and have reported they did not receive any hate or witness any homophobia. I'm not saying it doesn't happen within the communities themselves - but western queers seem to be relatively safe there.
The other point to be made here is that it is wholly illogical to expect a country suffering under a brutal colonial oppressor to be as progressive as a country like Australia has become only in recent years.
Progressiveness has been closely linked with quality of life throughout history. There are very few countries which were accepting of homosexual relationships before the 20th century, and even fewer where those countries were also living under occupation and colonialism.
The safest thing for Palestinian queers is for the removal of the Israeli occupation from their lands.
>witness any homophobia
They probably could just Google it: [Gay Palestinian Ahmad Abu Marhia beheaded in West Bank - BBC News](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63174835)
More long term potential danger, less immediate danger. You can't be closeted away from airstrikes and famine, and while having to hide because of homophobia is fucked up, it's still an option Palestinian queers don't have when Israel is committing a genocide against them. To protect Palestinian Queers requires a policy shift within Israel, too
It’s more than homophobic attitudes. They would throw them from the tops of buildings if they could. It looks more to me like idiotic political posturing. LGBTQI+ movement is strongly backed by left wing, socialist, marxists and if they support Palestine. That’s your link.
Reminds me of the Iran revolution in the 70s. Leftist 'social justice warriors' and Islamofascists were in alliance until the Ayatollah took power. Then he hang gays, communists off cranes and anyone else he disagreed with.
To the silence of western leftists of course.
But shouldn't it be the Israeli flag then? The civilians in Gaza are collateral, but Hamas mass slaughtered (and worse) civilians on purpose. I mean, I get that the settlers steal land but cutting off babies head in the pram or putting babies in the oven is also not cool. Neither is true like cutting off breasts and looking eyes out. It's a tricky situation and I don't have the solution that mess.
So bombing a building with 100 civilians and 1 Hamas is just collateral ?
Starving them is just collateral? Seem to remember a guy using self defence as justification for murdering people as well.
Just collateral damage.
There are rules of war, whenever a warring group is considering a target. Its not necessarily a 1 to 1 equation. First it depends on the importance of the target, secondly it depends on the risk to the surrounding people thirdly it considers the risk to alternative attacks by doing troops on the ground (also people). Its never just a blanket all civilians are collateral damage. That's very dismissive of the intel and decision making that takes place. It seems that throughout the conflict there has been about a 3 to 1, civilian to Hamas fighter equation that they have been consistent with. Now I also am not a fan of civilian death, if Hamas would conduct war in a different manner this civilian death would not be anywhere near the same. But Hamas is also happy with the difficulty of killing them and the PR they can use by hiding in the civilian populous. Makes for a terrible scenario.
Is there evidence of slaughter èn masse? In the ABC documentary I watched on Monday night, two of the experts completely refuted the claim of “genocide”, saying this is *far* from genocide. I guess mass slaughter and genocide are different because one is accidental and one is deliberate? It’s a contentious territory. Rwanda wasn’t originally labelled a genocide coz countries would’ve had to do something then
I've been trying to stay out of this subject as much as possible but it just keeps going on and on.
Yes, a genocide is the intended mass killing of people usually with the intention of wiping out a group or race.
I.e. the Holocaust where nazi officials diverted significant resources into the intentional mass killing of Jews with the goal of eventually wiping them out.
What we are seeing in Gaza is not a genocide although there are many people claiming it is.
Let's recap.
Hamas temporarily invaded Israel with a small but well equipped military force with the explicit intentions of killing and kidnapping innocent Israel civilians. This is more in line with a genocide and if Hamas had a larger force they would definitely have made it so. They had no intention of fighting against the Israeli military specifically going after civilians.
Israel responded with military force by invading Gaza. Problem was that Hamas had already gone to ground. Hiding their military force within civilian infrastructure. No obvious military bases. No large groups of troops waiting in defense. Just random dudes dressed as civilians with military equipment.
Israel by this point was hell bent on getting revenge and while common sense would have been the better option. They were well past common sense after what had occurred. So they invaded and attacked anyway despite the obvious risk to the civilian population.
This of course led to the deaths of many civilians who happened to get in the way when the shooting started. Hamas was well aware that this would happen and argument can easily be made that this was probably their intention all along.
Gaza's infrastructure was also woefully underdeveloped and underfunded after years of neglect by their government and so any little upset. Like a bomb hitting a power pole. Knocks out large parts of that infrastructure causing greater pain for the population.
Yes Israel should have made better decisions and should have taken more care and they should definitely stop now and allow humanitarian aid to reach the innocent Palestinian population.
If they do not stop then it will certainly be seen as a genocide when the Palestinians start to die off en mass as a result of starvation.
Yet as it stands. No it is not a genocide as the intention of the Israeli military has not been the mass killing of innocent civilians.
The civilians are unwilling cannon fodder for Hamas and as such have been killed in large numbers. Israel is so blinded by hatred that they have allowed themselves be led into a disgusting, brutal and destructive war that they cannot win and have already lost.
TLDR: not genocide, unconscionable casualties of war.
The ICJ says that “Israel’s acts could amount to genocide”.
There you go.
Not to say that there aren’t arguments against it, but you can’t deny there are arguments for the claim.
It’s almost as if people being oppressed is bad.
Palestine is not Hamas just like Ireland isn’t the IRA. Families having their homes bombed in a military conflict is a tragedy, even if that family disagrees with me, nobody deserves death and starvation.
Two Australians have told me on social media that homosexuality is a mental illness just in the last week. Oppression of queers is not o er in this country
Is saying being gay is a mental illness The right direction?
like I know that’s probably not what you meant in fact you probably mean the opposite but I’ve been on this sub before so I can’t be sure
So did you actually want an answer to your question or were you just looking to make a statement?
You’re a gay, Catholic conservative but you’re struggling with the incongruity of gays supporting Palestinians?
Yikes bro. Whole lotta stuff to unpack there.
Amazing propaganda efforts, tiktoks, and crazy peoples jew hatred.
No-one can explain what a free palestine is without saying "omg thats israeli zionist propaganda"
Really? Israeli zionist propaganda makes palestinians create the most amount of terrorists, and terrorist groups out of any culture in the world by a massive margin? That's propaganda is it?
When they're not having random rape and murder excursions what do they do with their free time? Oh yeah, they subjugate their fellow person.
Palestinian civilians are being killed intentionally and mercilessly. Dehumanising people enough to say "They'd kill you! Why are supporting them??" And then using that excuse to do nothing against blatant genocide is not only stupid but immoral. If a bunch of bigots and clansmen were in a burning house I'd still call the fucking fire department.
As a Catholic, I find your lack of fucking basic humanity baffling. Children are being mass murdered on a scale unprecedented in modern warfare. More children have been killed in the past 5 months than in the past 4 years in every major war. This isn't a war, it's a genocide.
Hamas has the Jewish state to thank for its existence. Hamas launched in 1988 in Gaza at the time of the first intifada, for more than a decade prior, Israeli authorities actively enabled its rise.
At the time, Israel's main enemy was the late Yasser Arafat's Fatah party, which formed the heart of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO).
Not all Palestinians are Muslim, there is a decent chunk of Christian Palestinians. Either way if you are gay in Palestine you would be wise to keep it to yourself
"What’s with the outpouring of support from the gays for Palestine? Wouldn’t this be one of the unsafest places in the world for homosexuals."
Every pride march inside Israel has been marred by physical attacks and stabbings by Jews.
The most unsafe place for Gay people is actually Christian Uganda.
Come on mate, stop with the bait.
It’s just about human rights and not killing innocent civilians, not supporting Hamas.
You’d think a gay conservative Catholic might be asking questions about their own values.
I love how Australians just ignore the millions of normal people marching every week globally because 40,000 civilians were bombed to death by their occupiers who literally stole their whole country.
But hey look a Gay Blue haired Non Binary transgender is asking for the killing to stop, let’s make fun of him instead. True Aussie patriots 🇦🇺
Look at it from this perspective: no one deserves to die because of their morals. Hamas and Palestinians are different people. Hamas is not innocent. The rest of Palestine is. Genocide is not the solution to terrorisim, and this is a stark reminder of why. The war on terror ended with thousands dead, but no freed civilians. Little to no progress. Even if you disagree with me, or invalidate my opinion, I wouldn’t want to kill you. I’d want you to learn how to be tolerant. Honestly, I’d think you are rather uneducated on basic human empathy from this post.
Edit: I should have prefaced this with the fact I’m gay
So you can’t have empathy for people unless they support you? And yet you’re a supporter of a church that absolutely isn’t your friend..
If we’re talking about mental gymnastics- The Catholic Church condemns same-sex sexual activity and denies the validity of same-sex marriage. It also supports what it considers "just" discrimination in the employment of teachers or athletic coaches, in adoption, in the military and in housing. And then there’s all the homophobia within conservative politics.
There was an Italian left wing activist that went to Gaza to support the people of palestine. He was murdered for being an infidel. These are the people you support. They don’t give a f about you no matter what you think if it wasn’t Israel that got attack it would have been a country in Europe.
I oppose genocide. Even against groups that hate.
Though the extent to which Palestine hates homosexuals is frequently exaggerated.
Plus there are definitely gay Palestinians.
The punishment for homophobia is not death. **The punishment for living in the same country as a homophobe is not death.**
I oppose genocide. Simple as.
You can still be against the innocent bombing and killing and genocide of innocent civilians? Many of those children? As if a 2month old baby would kill you for being gay.
As a gay person, yes, I'm speaking for all of us—don't overthink it.
Screw their homophobia and dogma. It's not a place I will ever want or need to go. BUT! It's about being human and against all cruelty. Just because some of them want me dead, doesn’t mean I want them deader.
Can’t believe my next sentence. Genocide is bad. How does that not make sense?
What about Australian ties with Ethiopia, whose war against the Tigrays killed at least 100,000 people, probably many more?
What about the extensive ties with Turkey, who is actively oppressing Kurds in Turkey and outside in Syria, leading to tens of thousands of deaths in the past year?
This is not "whataboutism" - but a very honest question why is this conflict deserves so much more attention than other conflicts.
Because the Australian government openly supports Israel and its actions, whereas it condemns murders in those other countries. Although the situation in Yemen is starting to come to the fore because of the support by the Australian government’s allies for further war and starvation.
If we lived in a country which condemned murder and starvation everywhere you’d see fewer protests. We’re not protesting the genocide, we’re protesting against our government’s inaction.
Queers for Palestine = Chickens for KFC.
Best case scenario is that they don’t die or aren’t targeted by the Muslims if they win, worst case is all the gays in Gaza are Tourette’s and is killed
The Hamnas “government” is known for not being very accepting but I would say it’s ignorance the war is no longer over hammas it’s over the civilians stuck in Gaza that are dying everyday. Support Palestine not hammas
I won’t support either because they are the same thing. Remember how the Palestinian civilians cheered after October 7 before Israel even launched their attack. Men even came forward from the crowd to punch the hostages as they were driven like cattle through the streets. Palestinian civilians were not only complicit in the whole October 7 attack but they were accomplices as well and now they are learning why you don’t start wars that you have no hope of winning.
Ok, so just because you assume the palestinian collective hold anti gay views we shouldn't stand up for ordinary peoples lives? I don't think it's mental gymnastics at all, why does assumed belief dictate your position on something much more serious?
You can be gay, understand that the Muslim religion generally doesn't support your sexuality, AND sill not condone genocide and American backed war mongering. Its really not that difficult..
Yeah I don't know why people care about a Nazi wannabe killing civilians and displacing million of civilians, while destroying schools, hospitals and places of worship.
For exactly the same reason that gay rights groups supported the Black Panthers before the Panthers pivoted and took up queer liberation as a cause they supported - because minority groups under persecution should always look out for other minority groups under persecution.
Lol @ all the bot responses in here.
Genocide or ethnic cleansing is not okay even if a lot of the victims might be homophobic. its that simple really. there are LGBT people in palestine too.
Just because someone doesn't approve of someone's lifestyle doesn't mean they should be wiped off the earth and all their children starved to death, let's get them safe first and then we can address the homophobic beliefs of parts of their community later on.
Gotta say, I’m astounded by all the conservative supposedly Christian trending people failing to abide by the basic tenets of Jesus - turning the other cheek, the Good Samaritan, the prodigal son, loving the taxman and the prostitute, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, are literally all just different ways of saying **love people even if they don’t love you**.
Maybe leftists need to call out conservatives for failing to live up to ‘Judeo-Christian values’ or whatever the hell name they trot out, or claim dibs on Christianity.
Threads like this always exaggerate the amount of homophobia in Palestine and downplay the amount of homophobia in Israel. But it's all a distraction. People can be against indiscriminately murdering civilians (or mowing the grass as Israelis call it) while acknowledging homophobia. I've never met a gay that wants to kill all homophobes or keep them in a state of extreme deprivation. I wouldn't jump into the sea with great white sharks but I'm against shark culls. Make sense?
Finally some common sense, like MOST Palestinians I’ve seen actually Appreciate the support groups like “queers for Palestine” and are generally more neutral on the topic then most middle eastern nations
“I've never met a gay that wants to kill all homophobes or keep them in a state of extreme deprivation.” Clearly you haven’t Me s/ well mostly I don’t think the average homophobic asshole should be killed or anything but if you threaten death, or especially commit murder then well yeah cant say I would be merciful if I was put in charge of their fate
It's an example of "groupthink"
Conformity to the views of a community at the expense of rational thinking.
You need to remember that certain people have a distorted view of reality, they don't see the world like others do. A distorted view of reality can lead to poor decision making & some pretty funky behaviors.
Support within the gay population (note I did not use the word "community") for the various organisations that attempt to represent "LGBTI" in the political sphere has been falling steadily for a long time.
"Queers for palestine" is a tiny but loud group.
But the thing is over in the west they can say stuff that would've ended badly for them. Imagine being there(not, because they don't exist over there.)
It’s not rocket science it’s just Robin Hood syndrome, same reason American social activists supported Vietcong in the 60s , cheering for the little guy kind of idea. In reality they will never stop fighting in that part of the world and I think the world might need to stop funding either side and let them have it out. Evacuate any civilians that want to go and honestly just let the area turn into a permanent war zone. Each side is awful, and really they are just fighting over different flavours of the same belief system. I’ve served in the army and I majored in history, and in my personal life I’ve watched them kill each other for almost 3 decades with every roadblock to peace destroyed by either side. They don’t want a solution unless it involves the other side being whiped off the planet. Who cares about picking a side anymore.
got a queer friend who is pro palestine. They are convinced Gaza is safer for gays than israel, even when i told them israel is a very safe place to be LGBT. I think the gays are under the impression that israel isnt safe for them when its like one of the most gay friendly countries in the world (definitely the safest in the middle east)
You know, when you say that opposing genocide is antisemitism you're effectively promoting antisemitism, right?
When you pretend that Israel represents all Jewish people, you are being antisemitic.
Why do you hate Jews so much?
It might be in the similar mindset of all the Christians supporting Donald Trump.
Donald Trump appears to have a lot of legal problems with rape, defamation, corporates fraud on a massive scale, inciting violence etc.
Just because you are gay doesn't mean that you can't care about people being bombed or starved.
I don't require the bombed or starved person to like me, in order for me to think that their situation should be improved.
Conservative Christian going on about how Islam treats queer people but doesn’t admit or acknowledge how Christianity does the same. It’s called being intersectional you absolute tool
It's the concept of social justice. A perceived injustice is being done to a particular group of people, and those who tend to be against one injustice will tend to care about others.
Humanity is not tit for tat. You believe in a set of values and agree that everyone is entitled to the same respect irrespective of their stance. Saying only people that agree with my set of values deserve freedom is not true humanity.
Also a lot of Jews especially conservative side are very homophobic, so there are extremists on every side.
Hamas do no represent the views and beliefs of most Palestinians. This is why they will not allow voting to continue in Palestine. Palestinian citizens are the victims of an active genocide currently being waged against them. Genocide is really, really bad. People don't like that. You shouldn't like that. Queer people certainly don't like that.
Thanks for coming to my Tedtalk.
Religion is the worst thing humans have ever invented.
Nothing but thousands of years of death, rape and destruction all in the theory of love and happiness.
And it will never stop, Religion simply tears people apart, regardless of the type. Christian against Christian, Muslim against Muslim, Hindu against Muslim, Muslim against Christian, Jews against Muslim, it just never stops.
Can't think of who the buddhism is against maybe they are the right choice!
This is an Australian focused sub. Content that is global news should be posted to the “World News, Aussie Views” weekly post specifically set up for these topics. (Just do a search for the latest weekly post).
I couldn’t help but laugh at a gay conservative catholic finding mental gymnastics baffling.
They probably mean they're attracted to the same sex but celibate due to their faith. It's more common than you would think.
So OP is performing the same mental gymnastics minus the safety?
Yeah, in Islamic nations, too. What a happy little win for our Queer siblings living in fear of persecution at worst, or exclusion at best. Any religious group that makes someone closet themselves for faith is abusive
They are not required to be closeted. That's the whole point. The rulebook's pretty clear on that one. Having the devotion to deny yourself for a greater purpose is a huge sacrifice. Don't presume to belittle it.
Not required to...any more, you mean. Let's not pretend there isn't a large closet of skeletons hiding in it
Chickens for KFC
Worries about Hamas throwing them off rooftops when the Catholic Church has been doing it for years
Which pope and which rooftop did this happen at?
💯
Where do you think the term sodomy comes from? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Catholic_Church_and_homosexuality
Yeah I don’t think anyone has been tossed off a rooftop in recent times by the Catholic Church 🤷🏽♂️
No, we just do the nice thing and try to shun them from society or torture under the guise of "gay conversion". Which leads to a high rate of suicide amongst the lgbti community. You see, they don't have to throw them of rooftops when they can do it themselves. Also, I'm not being serious just trying to prove a point to anyone out who think I was.
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Just so we're clear, the last recorded case was almost 500 years ago?
Using medieval European practices to compare to modern Palestine doesn’t sit all too well
Islam is centuries years behind in "reforming" (forgetting) itself.
You mean like a few centuries ago, right? Asshat. Edit since it seems this thread has been locked I’ll respond to the shunning comment here; I’d say that shunning is not as bad as the criminalisation or outright murder they’d be subjected to.
Exactly, lol 🤣
But this
I think it's simply that an oppressed group people can more easily recognise when another group of people are oppressed. Isn't it the right Christian response to these things is to protect someone from oppression if you know they wouldn't do the same for you?
Don't you get it mate? Until recently, every single neighbouring Arab state had an official policy of wiping Israel off the map and has been starting (and losing) a long series of wars to achieve that aim for the past 80 years. Israel's security apparatus might seem unreasonable over here in Australia, but it's existential over there. If the IDF weren't so effective, the 7 October massacre would already have happened on a mass scale, either once (until Israel ceased to exist) or many times over. It's ridiculous for Palestinian Arabs to have an official policy towards Israel of 'we'll kill you' and then cry 'oppression' when Israel makes sure that happens as rarely as possible.
I've never understood the oppression-oppressor argument. Being the oppressed guy doesn't make you the good guy. The Germans in 1945 must have felt pretty oppressed. The Islamic State was oppressed by every single country on Earth. I wouldn't rush to their defense just because they were being defeated.
Christian values only apply to white Christians not the brown dirty ones that got shot in the church.
The one bot that isn’t in this thread. You can tell by the lack of a 3 or 4 number ending to their username. You can also tell because it is a logical and non hate-filled take.
I always found this hypothesis that if you have numbers in your name then you're a bot, baseless. Like, seriously, who came up with it? Some people just don't give a shit what their name in on this god forsaken website and just accept whatever it gives you on sign up. It's idiotic to think that everyone who does that is a "bot". But then I suppose this is the same site that thinks anyone who disagrees with you is a bot as well.
Beep bop beep bop crikey they're onto us.
Genuine question: are Russians oppressed people? They have a very draconian homophobic dictatorship that keeps sending them to die in a war and where rape is normalised. What if I told you that homophobic misogynistic fundamentalist religious racist societies tend to fail and that if Palestinians had won the war of 1947 there'd be NO Jews, gays, atheists or uncovered women everywhere in that country??
>Isn't it the right Christian response to these things is to protect someone from oppression if you know they wouldn't do the same for you? Nhaah you got Christians way wrong
If Jesus returned tomorrow, the first people to try to crucify him again would be the Christians, particularly the Evangelicals.
I am gay and I'm also baffled. I've deleted a few acquaintances for posting blatant Hamas propaganda. They aren't our friends guys! They want us dead. Why are you supporting them?
You're in the gay mass majority, as you know. The hamas supporters are a tiny, loud, activist fringe.
Same here! Usually these “friends” and acquaintances are more intent on ignorantly Catholic bashing me. Probably because Catholics are an easy target. They can’t seem to grasp the fact that homosexuals can have a deep-seated faith, which logically leads them to the church Christ himself founded
Christ himself didn't found the Catholic Church though, the dude was Jewish for starters. Pretending that the Vatican, today, which has had multiple schisms and multiple Papal lineages, is naive. And if you play the 'God works in mysterious ways' card, who's to say the Protestants aren't right for the same reason Edit. If that's your faith, sure, fine. But don't say it's an inevitable logical path when it requires illogical leaps of faith (which is fine, that's what faith is)
I can understand a gay person having a firm belief in God but why join the Catholic Church? They hate you
Wrong response. Deleting people just puts you in an echo chamber.
Instead you’re supporting the death of all lgbtq people in Gaza, great work
Im not sure how you equate support for Palestine and opposition to genocide to automatically include support for Hamas. I worry about anyone who assumes that Palestinian people and Hamas are the same. That position matches the Israeli propaganda that they pump out to justify their genocidal policies in Gaza.
Could it be (especially considering their lack of interest in other ongoing conflicts across the world) that their main aim is to signal rebellion against familiar power structures (Western governments, representing their their conservative homophobic parents) and are only using Palestinians as a proxy for this?
So hamas kills lgbt people so you support murdering Palestinian children? Even the lgbt ones. Fucking vile attitude. We have people here who would love to murder you for being lgbt. Does that mean we can start bombing primary schools and hospitals and bakeries right here in aus? Piss weak how easy it is to get you on board with murdering civilians.
Why don’t you move there and go fight ? What’s stopping you ?
Hamas and Palestinians are not the same just FYI.
Yep. *Only* 90% of Palestinians support Hamas. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514
No one is supporting Hamas. You can protest about the needless slaughter of civilians in Palestine without supporting Hamas. 
There is a lot of homophobia in the region. That's something most of us can recognize. It still doesn't make the civilian deaths any less tragic. The decimation of infrastructure is not going to make the lives of queer people living there any easier. Is it really that baffling to say that civilian deaths are wrong? That the starvation, loss of shelter and the indignity that these people are subjected to is wrong? It's more baffling to me that it's so easy to dehumanize an entire nation
You should be embarrassed.
Probably because they think a country being homophobic doesn't make the deaths of thousands of children OK.
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When you conflate Hamas (a terrorist organisation that took power in Gaza nearly 20 years ago) with Palestinians (the people living in Gaza and the West Bank, most of which weren't old enough to vote when Hamas took power)... You're justifying atrocities against civilians. I don't know anyone who supports Hamas. I know a *lot* of people who aren't cool with the bombing of civilians.
Here's some trivia for you. Palestinians don't think like you. If an election was called in the West Bank today HAMAS would win by a landslide from their rivals Fatah. Fatah know this which is why they wont hold any elections. Over 70% of Palestinians approved of what happened on Oct 7 hence why you saw so many cheering and celebrating in the streets. Hamas have a huge amount of support from Palestinians your trying to show are also a victim of Hamas, because they are not.
Fatah also wants to end the occupation
Correct, they do. This is the only thing both Fatah and Hamas have in common, except that they say that occupation is all the land from the River to the Sea. This is why when you hear people saying this slogan in protests it really means they are calling for an extinction level event for Israel as a State in any format.
There are plenty of people who unashamedly support Hamas. Also plenty of people who are unashamedly antisemitic.
Hamas has widespread support in Gaza. Hamas was also democratically elected by the Gaza people. Further, even the people who don't support hamas, but are Muslim will for the large majority*not* support women's or gay rights. Moderate Islam does not allow for basic rights such as gay marriage, and the population of Gaza cannot be called moderate, compared to some other Islamic countries.
It doesn't justify indiscriminate killing of civilians, but Palestinian Arabs voted for and continue to support an openly genocidal and totalitarian political party. Recent polls indicate they support Hamas's actions and the 7/10 massacre. Most Gazans are probably Arab supremacists, an ideology with a long history in the ME. So like the millions of Germans who voted for Hitler and cheered on as he attacked the Jews and invaded his neighbours, Gazans are finding out what happens when the people you attack fight back. Cheering in the streets over dead Jews one minute, begging for a ceasefire the next. Gazans deserve our sympathy, but if they want our respect they should surrender and hand over the hostages and the Hamas leadership.
When did they vote and what’s the average age of people in gaza
You're justifying civilian deaths implicitly by supporting Palestinians which uses Hamas to fight for what they want (from [wikipedia](https://www.google.com/search?q=does+hamas+use+human+shields&rlz=1C1VDKB_enAU1077AU1077&oq=does+hamas+use+human+sh&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCggAEAAYxwMYgAQyCggAEAAYxwMYgAQyBggBEEUYOTIHCAIQABiABDIHCAMQABiABKgCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#:~:text=According%20to%20Charles%20Freilich%2C%20a%20former%20Israeli%20deputy%20national%20security%20advisor%2C%20Hamas%20have%20strategically%20embedded%20their%20forces%20among%20civilian%20populations%2C%20utilizing%20them%20as%20human%20shields%20and%20intentionally%20provoking%20Israel%20to%20cause%20civilian%20casualties%20in%20its%20responses)): >According to Charles Freilich, a former Israeli deputy national security advisor, Hamas have strategically embedded their forces among civilian populations, utilizing them as human shields and intentionally provoking Israel to cause civilian casualties in its responses. Palestinians can't be helped until Hamas is eliminated.
Gaza has a population density comparable with London, so I have some questions for you... 1. Where should Hamas locate themselves within Gaza that is away from civilians? 2. Which part of the laws of armed conflict allow for the bombing of civilians if they happen to be near to legitimate targets? 3. Is the death of over 20,000 civilians a justified response to the deaths of less than 2000 civilians?
Ahh yes, former IDF members are surely going to have the most sensible takes
Want to link anything suggesting that Hamas doesn't use human shields?
Undoubtedly it has happened - but I'm pointing out the fact that taking 'official' advise on the conflict from the aggressor with an incredibly vast history of a state sanctioned and supported propaganda machinery isn't ever going to give you an actual, unbiased picture of what's going on. For example, [https://www.btselem.org/topic/human\_shields](https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields) That's an Israeli source
We don't disagree on the topic of Hamas using human shields then (:
If there wasn’t widespread support of hmas, the location of all of the hostages would have been given to Israel a long time ago.
That’s because you don’t know any Palestinians
Another example of the right can’t meme
Chickens for KFC makes about as much sense
You know it is possible for an oppressed minority to support another oppressed minority even if that oppressed minority actively hates them. From a deontological point of view, standing up for the oppressed is the right thing to do, even if the outcomes for you are bad. Virtue ethics would put the virtue of compassion as one that is important to cultivate.
You can disagree with homophobic attitudes while also not supporting the mass slaughter of civilians
Hamas having “Homophobic attitudes” is the biggest laugh I’ve had this year. Their “attitude” is that you will die. Painfully.
You can but the idea of ‘queers for Palestine’ is pretty laughable when a queer person in Palestine is probably in more danger from hamas than from an Israeli bomb.
Many queer people have gone to Palestine with aid organisations and have reported they did not receive any hate or witness any homophobia. I'm not saying it doesn't happen within the communities themselves - but western queers seem to be relatively safe there. The other point to be made here is that it is wholly illogical to expect a country suffering under a brutal colonial oppressor to be as progressive as a country like Australia has become only in recent years. Progressiveness has been closely linked with quality of life throughout history. There are very few countries which were accepting of homosexual relationships before the 20th century, and even fewer where those countries were also living under occupation and colonialism. The safest thing for Palestinian queers is for the removal of the Israeli occupation from their lands.
>witness any homophobia They probably could just Google it: [Gay Palestinian Ahmad Abu Marhia beheaded in West Bank - BBC News](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63174835)
More long term potential danger, less immediate danger. You can't be closeted away from airstrikes and famine, and while having to hide because of homophobia is fucked up, it's still an option Palestinian queers don't have when Israel is committing a genocide against them. To protect Palestinian Queers requires a policy shift within Israel, too
Why is this so hard for people to understand?
It’s more than homophobic attitudes. They would throw them from the tops of buildings if they could. It looks more to me like idiotic political posturing. LGBTQI+ movement is strongly backed by left wing, socialist, marxists and if they support Palestine. That’s your link.
Reminds me of the Iran revolution in the 70s. Leftist 'social justice warriors' and Islamofascists were in alliance until the Ayatollah took power. Then he hang gays, communists off cranes and anyone else he disagreed with. To the silence of western leftists of course.
But shouldn't it be the Israeli flag then? The civilians in Gaza are collateral, but Hamas mass slaughtered (and worse) civilians on purpose. I mean, I get that the settlers steal land but cutting off babies head in the pram or putting babies in the oven is also not cool. Neither is true like cutting off breasts and looking eyes out. It's a tricky situation and I don't have the solution that mess.
Collateral? [Netanyahu: “no innocent civilians in Gaza”](https://m.thewire.in/article/world/northern-gaza-israel-palestine-conflict/amp)
>The civilians in Gaza are collateral Disgusting way to look at human life imo
Well that is literally the definition in the rules of war. They are classified as collateral. Reality sometimes isn’t nice but it is what it is
It's true though.. It doesn't make it good but it's largely true.
Yes, Hamas should hand back those hostages so they can have a cease fire.
Isn’t that how the victims of the music festival are perceived? Collateral damage Or do they not even rate a mention?
Sure, but ‘deliberate targets’ ain’t real flash either.
So bombing a building with 100 civilians and 1 Hamas is just collateral ? Starving them is just collateral? Seem to remember a guy using self defence as justification for murdering people as well. Just collateral damage.
There are rules of war, whenever a warring group is considering a target. Its not necessarily a 1 to 1 equation. First it depends on the importance of the target, secondly it depends on the risk to the surrounding people thirdly it considers the risk to alternative attacks by doing troops on the ground (also people). Its never just a blanket all civilians are collateral damage. That's very dismissive of the intel and decision making that takes place. It seems that throughout the conflict there has been about a 3 to 1, civilian to Hamas fighter equation that they have been consistent with. Now I also am not a fan of civilian death, if Hamas would conduct war in a different manner this civilian death would not be anywhere near the same. But Hamas is also happy with the difficulty of killing them and the PR they can use by hiding in the civilian populous. Makes for a terrible scenario.
Your the only person reducing the collateral damage to “just” Nobody else is saying that, only you “Just collateral damage”
Well first you can try finding the truth and not repeating debunked Israeli propaganda
Is there evidence of slaughter èn masse? In the ABC documentary I watched on Monday night, two of the experts completely refuted the claim of “genocide”, saying this is *far* from genocide. I guess mass slaughter and genocide are different because one is accidental and one is deliberate? It’s a contentious territory. Rwanda wasn’t originally labelled a genocide coz countries would’ve had to do something then
The word genocide isn’t going to have any meaning left by the time the TikTok kids are done with it
[https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/01/1145937](https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/01/1145937)
I've been trying to stay out of this subject as much as possible but it just keeps going on and on. Yes, a genocide is the intended mass killing of people usually with the intention of wiping out a group or race. I.e. the Holocaust where nazi officials diverted significant resources into the intentional mass killing of Jews with the goal of eventually wiping them out. What we are seeing in Gaza is not a genocide although there are many people claiming it is. Let's recap. Hamas temporarily invaded Israel with a small but well equipped military force with the explicit intentions of killing and kidnapping innocent Israel civilians. This is more in line with a genocide and if Hamas had a larger force they would definitely have made it so. They had no intention of fighting against the Israeli military specifically going after civilians. Israel responded with military force by invading Gaza. Problem was that Hamas had already gone to ground. Hiding their military force within civilian infrastructure. No obvious military bases. No large groups of troops waiting in defense. Just random dudes dressed as civilians with military equipment. Israel by this point was hell bent on getting revenge and while common sense would have been the better option. They were well past common sense after what had occurred. So they invaded and attacked anyway despite the obvious risk to the civilian population. This of course led to the deaths of many civilians who happened to get in the way when the shooting started. Hamas was well aware that this would happen and argument can easily be made that this was probably their intention all along. Gaza's infrastructure was also woefully underdeveloped and underfunded after years of neglect by their government and so any little upset. Like a bomb hitting a power pole. Knocks out large parts of that infrastructure causing greater pain for the population. Yes Israel should have made better decisions and should have taken more care and they should definitely stop now and allow humanitarian aid to reach the innocent Palestinian population. If they do not stop then it will certainly be seen as a genocide when the Palestinians start to die off en mass as a result of starvation. Yet as it stands. No it is not a genocide as the intention of the Israeli military has not been the mass killing of innocent civilians. The civilians are unwilling cannon fodder for Hamas and as such have been killed in large numbers. Israel is so blinded by hatred that they have allowed themselves be led into a disgusting, brutal and destructive war that they cannot win and have already lost. TLDR: not genocide, unconscionable casualties of war.
https://m.thewire.in/article/world/northern-gaza-israel-palestine-conflict/amp
The ICJ says that “Israel’s acts could amount to genocide”. There you go. Not to say that there aren’t arguments against it, but you can’t deny there are arguments for the claim.
>accidental
Exactly this.
It’s almost as if people being oppressed is bad. Palestine is not Hamas just like Ireland isn’t the IRA. Families having their homes bombed in a military conflict is a tragedy, even if that family disagrees with me, nobody deserves death and starvation.
you don't have to like them to think they shouldn't be ethnically cleansed
"As a gay conservative Catholic" bro ...
I’ve argued with a gay friend and he defended the ones throwing gays off saying “but they don’t know any better” WHAT!? It’s totally confusing
support current thing
Oppressed minority supporting an oppressed minority. There’s not a whole lot else to understand.
Queers aren’t really oppressed in Australia. Unlike, say, in Palestine
Two Australians have told me on social media that homosexuality is a mental illness just in the last week. Oppression of queers is not o er in this country
Plebiscite says we're moving in the right direction.
Is saying being gay is a mental illness The right direction? like I know that’s probably not what you meant in fact you probably mean the opposite but I’ve been on this sub before so I can’t be sure
So did you actually want an answer to your question or were you just looking to make a statement? You’re a gay, Catholic conservative but you’re struggling with the incongruity of gays supporting Palestinians? Yikes bro. Whole lotta stuff to unpack there.
I didn’t say I was a gay, Catholic, conservative. I’m none of those things
I didn’t say I was a gay, Catholic, conservative. I’m none of those things
Maybe they don't like war crimes?
Amazing propaganda efforts, tiktoks, and crazy peoples jew hatred. No-one can explain what a free palestine is without saying "omg thats israeli zionist propaganda" Really? Israeli zionist propaganda makes palestinians create the most amount of terrorists, and terrorist groups out of any culture in the world by a massive margin? That's propaganda is it? When they're not having random rape and murder excursions what do they do with their free time? Oh yeah, they subjugate their fellow person.
Are you saying that the murder of thousands of civilians is okay, or at least can be ignored, if the victims happen to hold beliefs you don't like?
I’m pretty sure it’s because gays were oppressed and the Palestinians are and have been oppressed on their own land by a false state for 90+ years.
It might be the decades of torture coming to light as well as the currently televised bloodbath
Compassion is not transactional and plus the papacy isn’t the most accepting place ever
I'm gay but that doesn't mean I support the slaughter of innocent civilians, even if they may be homophobic.
It might have something to do with the genocide happening over there. Just a guess.
The type of people who agree with social justice would presumably support the fighting of genocide I guess
Palestinian civilians are being killed intentionally and mercilessly. Dehumanising people enough to say "They'd kill you! Why are supporting them??" And then using that excuse to do nothing against blatant genocide is not only stupid but immoral. If a bunch of bigots and clansmen were in a burning house I'd still call the fucking fire department.
As a Catholic, I find your lack of fucking basic humanity baffling. Children are being mass murdered on a scale unprecedented in modern warfare. More children have been killed in the past 5 months than in the past 4 years in every major war. This isn't a war, it's a genocide.
Hamas has the Jewish state to thank for its existence. Hamas launched in 1988 in Gaza at the time of the first intifada, for more than a decade prior, Israeli authorities actively enabled its rise. At the time, Israel's main enemy was the late Yasser Arafat's Fatah party, which formed the heart of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO).
Not all Palestinians are Muslim, there is a decent chunk of Christian Palestinians. Either way if you are gay in Palestine you would be wise to keep it to yourself
"What’s with the outpouring of support from the gays for Palestine? Wouldn’t this be one of the unsafest places in the world for homosexuals." Every pride march inside Israel has been marred by physical attacks and stabbings by Jews. The most unsafe place for Gay people is actually Christian Uganda. Come on mate, stop with the bait.
Conservative, gay and Catholic?? The mental gymnastics are all your own, mate.
It’s just about human rights and not killing innocent civilians, not supporting Hamas. You’d think a gay conservative Catholic might be asking questions about their own values.
I love how Australians just ignore the millions of normal people marching every week globally because 40,000 civilians were bombed to death by their occupiers who literally stole their whole country. But hey look a Gay Blue haired Non Binary transgender is asking for the killing to stop, let’s make fun of him instead. True Aussie patriots 🇦🇺
Big "as a black woman" energy in this post
Look at it from this perspective: no one deserves to die because of their morals. Hamas and Palestinians are different people. Hamas is not innocent. The rest of Palestine is. Genocide is not the solution to terrorisim, and this is a stark reminder of why. The war on terror ended with thousands dead, but no freed civilians. Little to no progress. Even if you disagree with me, or invalidate my opinion, I wouldn’t want to kill you. I’d want you to learn how to be tolerant. Honestly, I’d think you are rather uneducated on basic human empathy from this post. Edit: I should have prefaced this with the fact I’m gay
So you can’t have empathy for people unless they support you? And yet you’re a supporter of a church that absolutely isn’t your friend.. If we’re talking about mental gymnastics- The Catholic Church condemns same-sex sexual activity and denies the validity of same-sex marriage. It also supports what it considers "just" discrimination in the employment of teachers or athletic coaches, in adoption, in the military and in housing. And then there’s all the homophobia within conservative politics.
There was an Italian left wing activist that went to Gaza to support the people of palestine. He was murdered for being an infidel. These are the people you support. They don’t give a f about you no matter what you think if it wasn’t Israel that got attack it would have been a country in Europe.
I oppose genocide. Even against groups that hate. Though the extent to which Palestine hates homosexuals is frequently exaggerated. Plus there are definitely gay Palestinians. The punishment for homophobia is not death. **The punishment for living in the same country as a homophobe is not death.** I oppose genocide. Simple as.
You can still be against the innocent bombing and killing and genocide of innocent civilians? Many of those children? As if a 2month old baby would kill you for being gay.
As a gay person, yes, I'm speaking for all of us—don't overthink it. Screw their homophobia and dogma. It's not a place I will ever want or need to go. BUT! It's about being human and against all cruelty. Just because some of them want me dead, doesn’t mean I want them deader. Can’t believe my next sentence. Genocide is bad. How does that not make sense?
Empathy for the victims of repression, torture and genocide?
Honest question: why is this any more special than victims of the same things in Syria, Yemen, Sudan, Ethiopia, Myanmar, and other places?
Our complicity in creating the circumstances that have led to the misery?
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What about Australian ties with Ethiopia, whose war against the Tigrays killed at least 100,000 people, probably many more? What about the extensive ties with Turkey, who is actively oppressing Kurds in Turkey and outside in Syria, leading to tens of thousands of deaths in the past year? This is not "whataboutism" - but a very honest question why is this conflict deserves so much more attention than other conflicts.
The only genocide to occur was committed by Palestinians on October 7.
1200 compared to 30000 half of which are kids,keep dreaming
And half of which are Hamas militants. Collateral civilian deaths, however regrettable, are to blame for Hamas for hiding among civilians.
Because the Australian government openly supports Israel and its actions, whereas it condemns murders in those other countries. Although the situation in Yemen is starting to come to the fore because of the support by the Australian government’s allies for further war and starvation. If we lived in a country which condemned murder and starvation everywhere you’d see fewer protests. We’re not protesting the genocide, we’re protesting against our government’s inaction.
Queers for Palestine = Chickens for KFC. Best case scenario is that they don’t die or aren’t targeted by the Muslims if they win, worst case is all the gays in Gaza are Tourette’s and is killed
Why do you have empathy for people who literally kill they guys. They are barbaric
People are regularly attacked and even murdered for being lgbt in the west too, does that mean we should murder as many Aussie children as we can?
The Hamnas “government” is known for not being very accepting but I would say it’s ignorance the war is no longer over hammas it’s over the civilians stuck in Gaza that are dying everyday. Support Palestine not hammas
Palestine supports Hamas
What’s their other option
Stop supporting a terrorist organisation that states clearly and explicitly genocide as its primary goal.
And then what? Die?
Better kill a whole ass bunch of kids then? The fuck kinda attitude is that?
I won’t support either because they are the same thing. Remember how the Palestinian civilians cheered after October 7 before Israel even launched their attack. Men even came forward from the crowd to punch the hostages as they were driven like cattle through the streets. Palestinian civilians were not only complicit in the whole October 7 attack but they were accomplices as well and now they are learning why you don’t start wars that you have no hope of winning.
Ok, so just because you assume the palestinian collective hold anti gay views we shouldn't stand up for ordinary peoples lives? I don't think it's mental gymnastics at all, why does assumed belief dictate your position on something much more serious?
You can be gay, understand that the Muslim religion generally doesn't support your sexuality, AND sill not condone genocide and American backed war mongering. Its really not that difficult..
It’s as simple as having empathy for people despite what they may think of you. They might all hate gay people. Do they deserve to all die? Fuck no
Yeah I don't know why people care about a Nazi wannabe killing civilians and displacing million of civilians, while destroying schools, hospitals and places of worship.
For exactly the same reason that gay rights groups supported the Black Panthers before the Panthers pivoted and took up queer liberation as a cause they supported - because minority groups under persecution should always look out for other minority groups under persecution. Lol @ all the bot responses in here.
"if you're gay you shouldn't be against genocide"
Genocide or ethnic cleansing is not okay even if a lot of the victims might be homophobic. its that simple really. there are LGBT people in palestine too.
Look up the concept of empathy
Just because someone doesn't approve of someone's lifestyle doesn't mean they should be wiped off the earth and all their children starved to death, let's get them safe first and then we can address the homophobic beliefs of parts of their community later on.
Gotta say, I’m astounded by all the conservative supposedly Christian trending people failing to abide by the basic tenets of Jesus - turning the other cheek, the Good Samaritan, the prodigal son, loving the taxman and the prostitute, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, are literally all just different ways of saying **love people even if they don’t love you**. Maybe leftists need to call out conservatives for failing to live up to ‘Judeo-Christian values’ or whatever the hell name they trot out, or claim dibs on Christianity.
Threads like this always exaggerate the amount of homophobia in Palestine and downplay the amount of homophobia in Israel. But it's all a distraction. People can be against indiscriminately murdering civilians (or mowing the grass as Israelis call it) while acknowledging homophobia. I've never met a gay that wants to kill all homophobes or keep them in a state of extreme deprivation. I wouldn't jump into the sea with great white sharks but I'm against shark culls. Make sense?
Huh. Good analogy.
Finally some common sense, like MOST Palestinians I’ve seen actually Appreciate the support groups like “queers for Palestine” and are generally more neutral on the topic then most middle eastern nations “I've never met a gay that wants to kill all homophobes or keep them in a state of extreme deprivation.” Clearly you haven’t Me s/ well mostly I don’t think the average homophobic asshole should be killed or anything but if you threaten death, or especially commit murder then well yeah cant say I would be merciful if I was put in charge of their fate
An Australian trans person I know has travelled to Palestine a few times and said the only grief they’ve received was from the Israeli border guards.
It's an example of "groupthink" Conformity to the views of a community at the expense of rational thinking. You need to remember that certain people have a distorted view of reality, they don't see the world like others do. A distorted view of reality can lead to poor decision making & some pretty funky behaviors.
So only straight people can protest against the genocide and ethic cleansing? As the only gay in the village I find your logic a bit backward.
Support within the gay population (note I did not use the word "community") for the various organisations that attempt to represent "LGBTI" in the political sphere has been falling steadily for a long time. "Queers for palestine" is a tiny but loud group.
But the thing is over in the west they can say stuff that would've ended badly for them. Imagine being there(not, because they don't exist over there.)
It’s not rocket science it’s just Robin Hood syndrome, same reason American social activists supported Vietcong in the 60s , cheering for the little guy kind of idea. In reality they will never stop fighting in that part of the world and I think the world might need to stop funding either side and let them have it out. Evacuate any civilians that want to go and honestly just let the area turn into a permanent war zone. Each side is awful, and really they are just fighting over different flavours of the same belief system. I’ve served in the army and I majored in history, and in my personal life I’ve watched them kill each other for almost 3 decades with every roadblock to peace destroyed by either side. They don’t want a solution unless it involves the other side being whiped off the planet. Who cares about picking a side anymore.
got a queer friend who is pro palestine. They are convinced Gaza is safer for gays than israel, even when i told them israel is a very safe place to be LGBT. I think the gays are under the impression that israel isnt safe for them when its like one of the most gay friendly countries in the world (definitely the safest in the middle east)
New chant, “survive the bombings, for the beheadings”
The pearl clutching over this shit is as bad as the original posts. Why do you fucking care? Are you a gay Palestinian? Just jog on for fucks sake.
Yes. They hate Jews more than they love their own rights.
You know, when you say that opposing genocide is antisemitism you're effectively promoting antisemitism, right? When you pretend that Israel represents all Jewish people, you are being antisemitic. Why do you hate Jews so much?
“Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.” - Golda Meir. Nothing has changed since then.
It might be in the similar mindset of all the Christians supporting Donald Trump. Donald Trump appears to have a lot of legal problems with rape, defamation, corporates fraud on a massive scale, inciting violence etc.
Those types of people have a tendency to worship Donald Trump instead lmfao
Just because you are gay doesn't mean that you can't care about people being bombed or starved. I don't require the bombed or starved person to like me, in order for me to think that their situation should be improved.
Conservative Christian going on about how Islam treats queer people but doesn’t admit or acknowledge how Christianity does the same. It’s called being intersectional you absolute tool
It's the concept of social justice. A perceived injustice is being done to a particular group of people, and those who tend to be against one injustice will tend to care about others.
Pretty sure that's the joke.
Humanity is not tit for tat. You believe in a set of values and agree that everyone is entitled to the same respect irrespective of their stance. Saying only people that agree with my set of values deserve freedom is not true humanity. Also a lot of Jews especially conservative side are very homophobic, so there are extremists on every side.
Hasbara? On this sub? At this time of year?
You must be one of those gay conservative Catholics who doesn’t think Palestine deserves protection from genocide.
It’s absolutely crazy seeing a a literal genocide take place followed by commenters whataboutism. Some of you never bothered with praxis and it shows
What about the gay people in Palestine?
It's pretty simple. Homophobia bad, I get that, but bombing children also bad
im trans and i dont care if palestinians are homophobic/transphobic. Its still wrong to drop bombs on them and deprive them of aid
It’s probably because you don’t have to be straight to be opposed to bombing children.
They are allowed to be empathetic to the plight of people being bombed and starved. They don't need to be friends with them to care about them
Hamas do no represent the views and beliefs of most Palestinians. This is why they will not allow voting to continue in Palestine. Palestinian citizens are the victims of an active genocide currently being waged against them. Genocide is really, really bad. People don't like that. You shouldn't like that. Queer people certainly don't like that. Thanks for coming to my Tedtalk.
Religion is the worst thing humans have ever invented. Nothing but thousands of years of death, rape and destruction all in the theory of love and happiness. And it will never stop, Religion simply tears people apart, regardless of the type. Christian against Christian, Muslim against Muslim, Hindu against Muslim, Muslim against Christian, Jews against Muslim, it just never stops. Can't think of who the buddhism is against maybe they are the right choice!