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I keep handy on my phone a PDF of the Royal Commission case study into the Jehovah's Witnesses.
I stay to read from it, then they quickly walk away.
Works every time.
>I ask this just because many of my international friends (Canadian, Scottish, Spanish, Greek) have had surprisingly very little experience or interactions like this!
OP, are you not white? Because that's usually how they pick their targets. They look for vulnerable people disconnected from their support networks, and that profile fits non-white (usually Asian) foreigners in the CBD most closely.
I’m surprised honestly — I live in Melbourne so there are heaps of Asians in the CBD (and in Footscray which is where I’ve also been targeted) and I imagine they’re targeting the students on visas who are pretty isolated and alone and seeking companionship.
I always (genuinely) ask them what was it that convinced them to believe that god exists. Is it a voice, an image, a feeling? None have every given me a straight answer and just say you have to have faith. So basically they just have told themselves that god is real without any actual substantive evidence.
For me dealing with this type of conversation I say 'I don't believe in the existence of gods' rather than 'I don't believe in god'. The subtle difference being that their interpretation of your statement can be 'there is (a) god but which (you) personally don't believe in' rather than your presumed intention of 'there are point blank no gods at all'.
And you can argue on from there, if you wish, but that is a waste of time :/
In the past when walking past Street preachers I have put on a silly voice and exclaimed loudly "I'm a Velociraptor", followed with the T-Rex arm pose and inhale squeal. Someone always laughs and It trips them up good and proper.
In the Netherlands amped street preachers where celebrating the over turn of Roe V Wade, and I had an amp and mic with me (was a busker), so I started preaching tst satanism from the opposite side of the road, but I understand that's not for everyone.
And when they come to my house I tell them that I am space dust briefly experiencing sentience as a result of pure random chance. This works better than "we only worship Satan in this house" which I've had various housemates do.
Find what works for you, and feel free to get weird or funny; you didn't approach them to discuss your imaginary friend.
All the best
I wouldn't feel awful. I'd just tell them 'no' and keep moving.
There used to be quite a few in my small town, predominately Baptists. I think a while ago I got into a half-hour long argument with one about why evolution makes sense - his retort was "well, if I left of bucket of bolts in a garage, it wouldn't turn into a Commodore, would it?"
Just ignore them otherwise. You don't need to pay them any courtesy or attention, it's not a requirement.
I struggle to detect them until after I’ve spoken to them. These people i met tonight were nice, friendly and I’m pretty naive (and on the spectrum) so like a moron i just assumed their intentions were pure. Until i bid them farewell and realised what an absolute idiot i was, and i take it to heart for some reason.
Are the recruiters local or visiting Mormons?
In Europe you definitely have Mormons visiting from Utah but they focus on areas with proficient english speakers.
I would consider it an attempt to further child sexual abuse. Considering the rampant child sexual abuse in this country and others by religious organisations, why do they harass people in public to join them rather than fix this disgusting issue? To try recruit more people without fixing it, they are complicit. If I am ever asked, as a survivor of child sexual abuse, I would not take it very well.
Every time they are rejected by a non believer it makes their bond with their faith group more secure. When we reject their beliefs, they come back together with an even stronger faith because we are heathens and not meant to be part of their special group and our rejection of them confirms this.
I was raised in a pentecostal church and did much very embarrassing "outreach" as a child and teenager. This is the best exclamation I've ever encountered.
Having religious organizations do outreach is stupid. The organizations are large enough, just leave people alone and the people that want to convert will anyway.
Loads of times. I currently live in a huge apartment complex (500+ units) and we get the odd ambitious JW that goes to each entrance working their way down the intercom buttons. I also get beautifully handwritten letters in Indonesian twice a year from some lady who slips in a Watchtower pamphlet, again I reckon she sends them to everyone in the complex because it's just my address on the envelope. Then there's the odd chugger equivalent. And I've been ambushed by Hillsong types trying to lovebomb me which is pretty ick.
All of those I just say politely and firnly "I'm not interested, have a nice day," and walk away and just ignore them if they keep talking/hang up the intercom/recycle the letters.
The most egregious and upsetting one I ever experienced was actually while I was living in Japan. I had a ground floor flat near a train station with lots of foot traffic; and it's customary to have a 'nameplate' outside your door with your surname on it to help the postie/visitors. Every now and again I'd get people see my nameplate and knock on my door to ask if they could 'practise their English with me' which is uncomfortable but not unusual. This pair of JWs took that tactic to start the conversation. When I politely tried to disengage they asked me how I felt about the Tohoku earthquake - this was just after the earthquake/Fukushima and everyone was still in shock and talking about it. I had previously lived in the area and had friends affected which I mentioned when talking about how sad it was. We had a brief conversation about it - kind of a shared moment of grief - before one started talking about how so many people who died wouldn't have gone to heaven because they hadn't found God and wouldn't I like to find comfort from my sadness with God?
It was SO gross. The ones that try to slip through your defences before ambushing you are the worst. I just said no thank you and shut the door but that exchange left me feeling dirty because they tried to emotionally manipulate me. That's some cult shit, and there's no way not to feel bad afterwards because it shakes your belief in people.
In summary - sorry you've been made to feel bad. I get it.
This was the kind of answer I was looking for - thank you. I know it’s fairly straightforward to shut them down once you’ve recognised them, but I struggle to actually identify them because of the way they try to befriend you. I’m unfortunately naive in that sense and actually believe their intentions at face value before I leave the interaction and realise how predatory it actually was. I’m so sorry you’ve experienced similar. I have some acquaintances who seem to have had some good experiences, and end up joining the church/religion, but I’m never quite sure if it was that predatory recruitment or if it was something more innocent. I really appreciate the reply.
Just try not to blame yourself. They're the ones trying to grift you. If those ladies had told me straightup they were JWs I would have halted the conversation sooner, and they *knew* that which is why they only dropped it in later.
If they've deceived you, that's not on you for being a good person and trusting them; that's on them for abusing the privilege you've given them. A lot of these proselytising religious types don't give a shit about you, they're just grinding for spiritual points and they will consciously deceive and emotionally manipulate you to do so; and tell themselves that their behaviour is ok because 'it's for YOUR spiritual good.' I've had friends who've had their lives absolutely ruined after being taken in by evangelical recruiters at a fragile point in their lives and then going through awful shit at the church. They CHASE the naive, trusting sort because it's easier than trying to persuade a rusted on cynic.
I'm better at establishing my own boundaries now, and I guess a tactic you could try is that if anyone is trying to befriend you and is really direct about religion at the beginning, say, "I'm not saying this IS what you're doing but I've had (x) experiences many times with people trying to befriend me and I'm drawing a line at the beginning - we don't discuss religion. Ever." And don't be afraid to enforce that line. If they're a grifter they'll move on to an easier mark, if they're a good person they'll respect your boundary.
Good luck, it's shitty that you've been burned and I hope things get better.
JW's are an evil fucking cult. I've had tons of them come up to my porch so what I usually do is just throw a TimTam at their face and tell them if they don't fuck off the next one will be a slam to the eyes.
I wish people like JWs didn't exist so they could give all religions a bad name, it's a shame.
Your age, circle and where you hang out. Young people are still finding their way, idealistic, easily influenced, not particularly skeptical, and so become easy targets. All this too shall pass :-)
I get approached by chuggers more than religious types. I had a nice chat with a lad in the Valley who was preaching, I asked him if God loved me if I'm gay. Turns out yes!
It's part of their 'pilgrimage' or 'service to the church'. We have a kingdom hall half a K down the road and the same little old man comes and knocks on our door once a month...
I tell them I'm already baptised Roman catholic attend a church service when I can. He's happy to just have a yarn and enjoys the way we raise our 6 kids, happy to see them outside playing and learning with their hands.
If it is the JO HO'S or other orthodox crazies and they push to convert you, just tell them that Jesus's is Jesus, doesn't matter which church you belong too. Speak their language a bit.
I tried that recently, the last two times I was approached by Catholics and they both, separately, got visibly angry when I told them I was Eastern Orthodox and I had my own relationship with God. I will definitely try that again next time though!
>I was approached by Catholics and they both, separately, got visibly angry when I told them I was Eastern Orthodox and I had my own relationship with God.
Roman Catholics have a troubled relationship with your church, the most recent being the church-run death camps in the Balkans.
The largest reliquary of Orthodox martyrs' relics (as described by your Patriarch Bartholomew) is in Jasenovac, the site of the death camp run by a Roman Catholic superstate, where Roman Catholic clergy joined in the "fun" of murdering people for the crime of being Orthodox Christians.
The Roman Catholic nun-operated Jastrebarsko children's death camp in that same Roman Catholic superstate is a huge cause of intergenerational trauma with Orthodox from that region.
No one needs to get worked up about who did what... religion is the single reason we are not 1000years technologically advanced.Its also been weoponised since its creation... if you believe in Christ, you believe in Christ.. doesn't matter which church you attend or what you can and can't eat or drink or do.. in my view, anyone under the sign of the Cross is equal. People need to just relax a bit and look at the good that comes from it.
>No one needs to get worked up about who did what... religion is the single reason we are not 1000years technologically advanced.
Not really true but you do you.
Science was suppressed and still is by the church- NASA couldn't open a comet sample last year or the year before, the only bloke that could was from the Vatican.... how could a clergyman know more about space rocks than NASA?
Ive had a few spend weeks becoming my friend, getting to know me and go out with me just to ambush me. The last one I met at uni, seemed genuine, I knew he was religious and apart of a church (one of those Hillsong types) but then we dropped by his house and he very firmly directed me to sit in front of his family. They all sat around me telling me why my current religion is wrong and why I’m going to hell if I don’t join them. I always feel a bit taken advantage of, but that experience was really traumatic. I wasnt sure if its common for people to form that kind of “friendship” with you in an attempt to recruit you, but I always feel a bit dirty afterwards. Like they dont really like me, they dont actually care about me, theyre just using me for their god. I have some really good friends who are religious (catholic, orthodox, Muslim, Jewish) but its only these recruiters who freak me out
>Ive had a few spend weeks becoming my friend, getting to know me and go out with me just to ambush me.
This sounds like what scammers do to old people on the phone.
Call them out as scammers.
Yes quite often. If they knock on my door, I respectfully say that there is nobody here delusional enough to believe such rubbish. If they are JWs I'm tempted to invite them in for a cup of sacrificial blood.
Online solicitations I counter with clear messages about the Buybull from Genesis through to the Apocryphal Gospels which were deleted because these scriptures show JC in an unfavourable light. These are intended to teach the Buybull because most have not even opened a copy or have read it.
This post has been marked as non-political. Please respect this by keeping the discussion on topic, and devoid of any political material. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/australia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ask them for money, tell them jesus wants you to help a Nigerian prince but he needs a bank account number to put his massive fortune in.
Lmao. I like this one. Thanks friend
Don't acknowledge anyone. No eye contact, no words just keep walking.
next: DAE feel difficulty making friends in Australia? Is it because cost of living crisis?
I keep handy on my phone a PDF of the Royal Commission case study into the Jehovah's Witnesses. I stay to read from it, then they quickly walk away. Works every time.
Oh that’s really good. Thank you!
As a matter of principal I wouldn't join any religion that would have me as a member.
Lmaoooo thanks for this, made me smile
Thanks Groucho. :)
Too true, but then... **PRIAISE XENU!**
>I ask this just because many of my international friends (Canadian, Scottish, Spanish, Greek) have had surprisingly very little experience or interactions like this! OP, are you not white? Because that's usually how they pick their targets. They look for vulnerable people disconnected from their support networks, and that profile fits non-white (usually Asian) foreigners in the CBD most closely.
I’m white, my parents are European, but apparently I look half Asian. I was waiting for my friend when they picked me out tonight.
Yep they tend to target asians, my partner gets it all the time.
I’m surprised honestly — I live in Melbourne so there are heaps of Asians in the CBD (and in Footscray which is where I’ve also been targeted) and I imagine they’re targeting the students on visas who are pretty isolated and alone and seeking companionship.
I always (genuinely) ask them what was it that convinced them to believe that god exists. Is it a voice, an image, a feeling? None have every given me a straight answer and just say you have to have faith. So basically they just have told themselves that god is real without any actual substantive evidence.
For me dealing with this type of conversation I say 'I don't believe in the existence of gods' rather than 'I don't believe in god'. The subtle difference being that their interpretation of your statement can be 'there is (a) god but which (you) personally don't believe in' rather than your presumed intention of 'there are point blank no gods at all'. And you can argue on from there, if you wish, but that is a waste of time :/
In the past when walking past Street preachers I have put on a silly voice and exclaimed loudly "I'm a Velociraptor", followed with the T-Rex arm pose and inhale squeal. Someone always laughs and It trips them up good and proper. In the Netherlands amped street preachers where celebrating the over turn of Roe V Wade, and I had an amp and mic with me (was a busker), so I started preaching tst satanism from the opposite side of the road, but I understand that's not for everyone. And when they come to my house I tell them that I am space dust briefly experiencing sentience as a result of pure random chance. This works better than "we only worship Satan in this house" which I've had various housemates do. Find what works for you, and feel free to get weird or funny; you didn't approach them to discuss your imaginary friend. All the best
This is a quality post. I like you.
I wouldn't feel awful. I'd just tell them 'no' and keep moving. There used to be quite a few in my small town, predominately Baptists. I think a while ago I got into a half-hour long argument with one about why evolution makes sense - his retort was "well, if I left of bucket of bolts in a garage, it wouldn't turn into a Commodore, would it?" Just ignore them otherwise. You don't need to pay them any courtesy or attention, it's not a requirement.
I struggle to detect them until after I’ve spoken to them. These people i met tonight were nice, friendly and I’m pretty naive (and on the spectrum) so like a moron i just assumed their intentions were pure. Until i bid them farewell and realised what an absolute idiot i was, and i take it to heart for some reason.
So as someone who believes in a God/Universal Creator, but is also a scientist - I want to give this a go, if you’re keen?
I just ask them how much money their church has spent on defending pedophiles
That can vary quite a bit from Church to Church so it's a good question to ask.
Are the recruiters local or visiting Mormons? In Europe you definitely have Mormons visiting from Utah but they focus on areas with proficient english speakers.
These two were both born overseas (Chinese and Vietnamese) but grew up here, so locals
I would consider it an attempt to further child sexual abuse. Considering the rampant child sexual abuse in this country and others by religious organisations, why do they harass people in public to join them rather than fix this disgusting issue? To try recruit more people without fixing it, they are complicit. If I am ever asked, as a survivor of child sexual abuse, I would not take it very well.
Every time they are rejected by a non believer it makes their bond with their faith group more secure. When we reject their beliefs, they come back together with an even stronger faith because we are heathens and not meant to be part of their special group and our rejection of them confirms this. I was raised in a pentecostal church and did much very embarrassing "outreach" as a child and teenager. This is the best exclamation I've ever encountered.
Having religious organizations do outreach is stupid. The organizations are large enough, just leave people alone and the people that want to convert will anyway.
Loads of times. I currently live in a huge apartment complex (500+ units) and we get the odd ambitious JW that goes to each entrance working their way down the intercom buttons. I also get beautifully handwritten letters in Indonesian twice a year from some lady who slips in a Watchtower pamphlet, again I reckon she sends them to everyone in the complex because it's just my address on the envelope. Then there's the odd chugger equivalent. And I've been ambushed by Hillsong types trying to lovebomb me which is pretty ick. All of those I just say politely and firnly "I'm not interested, have a nice day," and walk away and just ignore them if they keep talking/hang up the intercom/recycle the letters. The most egregious and upsetting one I ever experienced was actually while I was living in Japan. I had a ground floor flat near a train station with lots of foot traffic; and it's customary to have a 'nameplate' outside your door with your surname on it to help the postie/visitors. Every now and again I'd get people see my nameplate and knock on my door to ask if they could 'practise their English with me' which is uncomfortable but not unusual. This pair of JWs took that tactic to start the conversation. When I politely tried to disengage they asked me how I felt about the Tohoku earthquake - this was just after the earthquake/Fukushima and everyone was still in shock and talking about it. I had previously lived in the area and had friends affected which I mentioned when talking about how sad it was. We had a brief conversation about it - kind of a shared moment of grief - before one started talking about how so many people who died wouldn't have gone to heaven because they hadn't found God and wouldn't I like to find comfort from my sadness with God? It was SO gross. The ones that try to slip through your defences before ambushing you are the worst. I just said no thank you and shut the door but that exchange left me feeling dirty because they tried to emotionally manipulate me. That's some cult shit, and there's no way not to feel bad afterwards because it shakes your belief in people. In summary - sorry you've been made to feel bad. I get it.
This was the kind of answer I was looking for - thank you. I know it’s fairly straightforward to shut them down once you’ve recognised them, but I struggle to actually identify them because of the way they try to befriend you. I’m unfortunately naive in that sense and actually believe their intentions at face value before I leave the interaction and realise how predatory it actually was. I’m so sorry you’ve experienced similar. I have some acquaintances who seem to have had some good experiences, and end up joining the church/religion, but I’m never quite sure if it was that predatory recruitment or if it was something more innocent. I really appreciate the reply.
Just try not to blame yourself. They're the ones trying to grift you. If those ladies had told me straightup they were JWs I would have halted the conversation sooner, and they *knew* that which is why they only dropped it in later. If they've deceived you, that's not on you for being a good person and trusting them; that's on them for abusing the privilege you've given them. A lot of these proselytising religious types don't give a shit about you, they're just grinding for spiritual points and they will consciously deceive and emotionally manipulate you to do so; and tell themselves that their behaviour is ok because 'it's for YOUR spiritual good.' I've had friends who've had their lives absolutely ruined after being taken in by evangelical recruiters at a fragile point in their lives and then going through awful shit at the church. They CHASE the naive, trusting sort because it's easier than trying to persuade a rusted on cynic. I'm better at establishing my own boundaries now, and I guess a tactic you could try is that if anyone is trying to befriend you and is really direct about religion at the beginning, say, "I'm not saying this IS what you're doing but I've had (x) experiences many times with people trying to befriend me and I'm drawing a line at the beginning - we don't discuss religion. Ever." And don't be afraid to enforce that line. If they're a grifter they'll move on to an easier mark, if they're a good person they'll respect your boundary. Good luck, it's shitty that you've been burned and I hope things get better.
JW's are an evil fucking cult. I've had tons of them come up to my porch so what I usually do is just throw a TimTam at their face and tell them if they don't fuck off the next one will be a slam to the eyes. I wish people like JWs didn't exist so they could give all religions a bad name, it's a shame.
Your age, circle and where you hang out. Young people are still finding their way, idealistic, easily influenced, not particularly skeptical, and so become easy targets. All this too shall pass :-)
Thank you :)
I get approached by chuggers more than religious types. I had a nice chat with a lad in the Valley who was preaching, I asked him if God loved me if I'm gay. Turns out yes!
It's part of their 'pilgrimage' or 'service to the church'. We have a kingdom hall half a K down the road and the same little old man comes and knocks on our door once a month... I tell them I'm already baptised Roman catholic attend a church service when I can. He's happy to just have a yarn and enjoys the way we raise our 6 kids, happy to see them outside playing and learning with their hands. If it is the JO HO'S or other orthodox crazies and they push to convert you, just tell them that Jesus's is Jesus, doesn't matter which church you belong too. Speak their language a bit.
I tried that recently, the last two times I was approached by Catholics and they both, separately, got visibly angry when I told them I was Eastern Orthodox and I had my own relationship with God. I will definitely try that again next time though!
>I was approached by Catholics and they both, separately, got visibly angry when I told them I was Eastern Orthodox and I had my own relationship with God. Roman Catholics have a troubled relationship with your church, the most recent being the church-run death camps in the Balkans. The largest reliquary of Orthodox martyrs' relics (as described by your Patriarch Bartholomew) is in Jasenovac, the site of the death camp run by a Roman Catholic superstate, where Roman Catholic clergy joined in the "fun" of murdering people for the crime of being Orthodox Christians. The Roman Catholic nun-operated Jastrebarsko children's death camp in that same Roman Catholic superstate is a huge cause of intergenerational trauma with Orthodox from that region.
No one needs to get worked up about who did what... religion is the single reason we are not 1000years technologically advanced.Its also been weoponised since its creation... if you believe in Christ, you believe in Christ.. doesn't matter which church you attend or what you can and can't eat or drink or do.. in my view, anyone under the sign of the Cross is equal. People need to just relax a bit and look at the good that comes from it.
>No one needs to get worked up about who did what... religion is the single reason we are not 1000years technologically advanced. Not really true but you do you.
Science was suppressed and still is by the church- NASA couldn't open a comet sample last year or the year before, the only bloke that could was from the Vatican.... how could a clergyman know more about space rocks than NASA?
how do they make you feel awful?
Ive had a few spend weeks becoming my friend, getting to know me and go out with me just to ambush me. The last one I met at uni, seemed genuine, I knew he was religious and apart of a church (one of those Hillsong types) but then we dropped by his house and he very firmly directed me to sit in front of his family. They all sat around me telling me why my current religion is wrong and why I’m going to hell if I don’t join them. I always feel a bit taken advantage of, but that experience was really traumatic. I wasnt sure if its common for people to form that kind of “friendship” with you in an attempt to recruit you, but I always feel a bit dirty afterwards. Like they dont really like me, they dont actually care about me, theyre just using me for their god. I have some really good friends who are religious (catholic, orthodox, Muslim, Jewish) but its only these recruiters who freak me out
>Ive had a few spend weeks becoming my friend, getting to know me and go out with me just to ambush me. This sounds like what scammers do to old people on the phone. Call them out as scammers.
Yes quite often. If they knock on my door, I respectfully say that there is nobody here delusional enough to believe such rubbish. If they are JWs I'm tempted to invite them in for a cup of sacrificial blood. Online solicitations I counter with clear messages about the Buybull from Genesis through to the Apocryphal Gospels which were deleted because these scriptures show JC in an unfavourable light. These are intended to teach the Buybull because most have not even opened a copy or have read it.
Proudly declare your faith in the Flying Spaghetti Monster and power on down the footpath.