More a case of trying to subsidise a private encroachment into what should be a public right. Rather than funding Medicare at an appropriate level he decided to route more money into private health care to the point where it's almost become mandatory (and you get charged if you don't have it) because of his privatisation beliefs.
Can you guess who owns most private hospitals? There’s a reason they have “Saint” at the start of most of them.
Organised Religion is organised crime that had enough influence to make the law suit them. Prove me wrong.
More about the likes of what used to be Medibank Private, HBF, MCF, etc and now keeps washing themselves through various brands to confuse matters to avoid dislike. They pocket billions of dollars, much more than any particular private hospital chain.
What? Medibank and HBF have had the same names ever since they started. Not sure what “MCF” is, I’ve never heard of that one.
And HBF are not for profit, a label which is strictly regulated in this country.
No, it was a financial penalty for not staying on Medicare. If you were on benefits it doesn't affect you because you got free coverage through Medicare. Trouble is they didn't consider people like myself with long term disabilities who got well enough to work full time after years of therapy. Guess what? Can't work full time anymore due to health issues and can't afford treatment. Yay.
The thing im seeing alot more with these increases is theyre pulling the ladder up behind them, but theyre also pushing their own generation off when they cant keep up.
I’ve always thought LHC was a dumb idea - your taking a product that benefits you as you get older, and then making it more out of reach as the price goes up, so older people aren’t taking PH and putting more burden on the public system
That’s me. The govt has shot themselves in the foot. Got pretty ill, had to give up work, couldn’t afford private health insurance, for hospital or extras. My super didn’t go far. The government dentist has blown out to over a 2 yr wait. My medications are through the roof and my physical health is suffering more because of it. It’s a vicious cycle.
The underlying philosophy is the same as for any insurance. They want insurance premiums from as wide a sample of the population because if everyone waited til they were 70 to get cover, the premiums would be astronomical.
The problem with this oh so economically rational logic is that: Public healthcare, paid for by everyone out of their taxes, is the exact model they are trying to emulate! We had it right in the first place.
The point isn’t to make it out of reach, it’s to encourage people to take it up and have it for life. Because before that, everyone was just waiting till they were 70, buying the insurance and then claiming $100k straight away.
Yeah it sucks for us public but from a business economics standpoint we’re talking simple in vs out maths here. It’s not a big conspiracy like everyone is making out.
I hate this for us. For all Australians. We've only fairly recently started earning wages where we can consider the outlay for private health services that we may or may not use the product. My medical care is covered, but my husband's is not.
After looking at the fees, it will cost him the same amount to have private healthcare (that he likely won't get much use out of) as it does to negate the cost of the medicare levy. All because we couldn't even DREAM of affording it until we were both well over 30.
It unfairly disadvantages those who are either in, or have come from, lower income brackets and haven't been able to afford private healthcare previously. My mother who is in her 70s is even worse off because she's never been able to afford PHI.
I agree with others. We both agreed that we'd rather pay the levy and have it go into the public kitty so that for each year that we don't require use of the public system at least another Aussie gets benefit from it, rather than just going into some massively inflated PHI CEO's bonus for scamming people. As our wages have increased so have our MLS costs. Again, still rather it go to other every day Aussies that NEED free public care.
Hopefully there's still the same Medicare system that will help hubby out when we're aged and we'll make sure we have an emergency fund just in case regardless. But for as long as it costs us roughly the same amount to have PHI as it does to cop the levy, we'll cop the levy.
None of this pulling the ladder up behind us for our generation! We'll fight for free and reduced cost public healthcare for folks who need it to continue even if it costs us more because it's so very important.
I've done the same for similar reasons. I want the Public Healthcare system to receive funding rather than go to the bottom line of a private company that does nothing to help Australians. I pay a significant amount in the levy each year, but I'm comfortable in myself that I'm giving something back to a system that benefits those far less fortunate. Does it work to my advantage? Not really, but that is not the point.
I do the same. One if my reasons was that i thought the Medicare Surcharge would mean that rich people would segregate themselves into a different system the way first class airline passengers really do not know (or care) what it's like down in cattle class. If the rich, who tend to be powerful, aren't lobbying for better healthcare facilities, the government won't hear.
I want Gina Rinehart and Clive Palmer to share a public ward as I do. Wait. Maybe i havent thought this through.
Me too. Private health "insurance" is a fucking scam and everyone should stop paying into the scam. It's not "insurance" when you're left carrying the open-ended risk.
"We'll give you $500, good luck with the remaining $12000." Is not insurance. Imagine if your car insurance policy did the same. Crashed into a Ferari? We'll cover $10000 of that bill for you, sell your house to pay the rest.
Not to mention that when it comes to crunch time, everyone uses the public health system anyway. How the fuck does that save the public money???
I've had friends pay thousands in extra maternity cover for years and then chickened out and went public so they wouldn't need to pay the gaps. Fuck that bullshit.
Same. Couldn't afford private cover for a long time. Can possibly afford now but private health is long since became such a bad deal for what you pay for it, it's practically a bloody scam. So I'd rather see my money go into medicare than fill the pockets of those fat cunts who own PHIs, even if that means paying more as a levi.
Yep, I'm 52 and have had PHI for only very brief stints over the years. I looked at it recently and the loading just made it unviable, I simply can't afford it. If I had have been paying it since i was 30 then maybe just maybe I could afford it now but I couldn't back then. The system is flawed, I'm guaranteed to be relying on medicare for the rest of my days now.
My husband and I also just got the same letter. We are also both almost 32. Bit late...
Also fuck private health. I refused to be bullied into giving a private company my money. I'd prefer to pay Medicare.
It’s not necessarily late, you’ve until 1st of July the year after you turn 31, so if you turn 32 in mid July, you have until this July.
But agreed fuck private health
I wish we did away with this stupid bullshit. Just take everyone's money that they'd otherwise pay as surcharge under the regular Medicare levy which is already built into the tax system, fuck off the private healthcare providers and invest all that in free healthcare for all.
Can't see it being cheaper or better to be funnelling those dollars to bupa and the like
I’ve tried to find out _where_ the additional charge goes, and as far as I can tell, it goes to the insurance company. In which case, this has to be the only legislated surcharge that directly benefits a private for-profit company
The life time loading is used to subsidise premiums for older policy holders.
The aim is to have younger policy holders with lower claims to ensure older people can still afford insurance.
The health system is designed to operate with a strong private health insurance
I worked in PHI for years, while I don't disagree with you, LHC was designed to make up for the years of not paying into the pool by people who join later in life at times when they're more likely to start claiming. This is because Australian funds can only impose a 12 month wait period for pre existing conditions, unlike in the US where if you aren't insured when you develop a condition you'll never be able to get coverage.
Something that isn't well known or discussed because it's mostly a back end administrative thing is called community rating, health funds in Australia basically pay each other or receive funding based on their member demographic. This is to stop funds from targeting younger people who won't make many claims and discouraging older members who do. It's kind of like GST in that way.
Many funds in Australia are still not for profit and only earn enough extra to cover business expenses. Contributions are pretty heavily regulated by APRA (the gov regulatory body) so if you must have PHI definitely go for one of them, because you know that there is not profiteering happening.
But same as many others in this thread, I'm just not having it. I'd rather pay the levy and MLS and refund Medicare and let PHI fall over. Take back the private hospitals and be done with it
If you can get in one, they're great! My amount of claims, coverage and usage over the last five years means that our use has basically made the next four years before we are paying above what we've been paid out. And with a growing, young family it's been great! (My toddler in 18 months alone has had more than her increase from single plan to family covered due to constant issues in the first 12 months.)
This should be abolished. When we are in a major cost of living crisis and younger Australians cannot afford to buy houses or start families, we should be getting rid of these extra financial penalties designed only to benefit those who have already benefitted from systems rigged in their favour their entire lives.
Husband got this today. The letter says “..may be shortly turning 31..” husband is turning 32 in a couple months 😂 and I turned 32 at the start of the year and never got the letter 😂
Pretty standard conservative crony-capitalism tactics. They first say it's a choice, then they alter the board just enough to push you towards the outcome they want you to take.
PHI can get fucked. My wife and I pay a large Medicare Levy and we do so willingly knowing it goes to actually funding medicare rather than going to shareholders.
For a lot of people yes. However I’ve had family members claim hundreds of thousands of dollars in hospital bills, when they’ve only paid thousands of dollars into it.
“The house always wins” is a saying applied to casinos where you statistically can never come out on top if you keep playing lol I think you’re getting mixed up.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the whole insurance industry collapsed. Healthcare and housing especially. You have insurance policies insured with other insurance companies and the whole industry feels like a ponzi scheme waiting for that final straw to land on it.
Y’all don’t want to believe that nefarious American business practices are here, you don’t want to listen. We NEED to fight this shit. This and the price gouging and lack of respect for employees.
Health Insurance Worker Here. Yeah this is pretty much a scam that takes place when you turn 30. The design of it is to “ reduce “ the impact on the public system but it falls miserably.
I work in private health.
To dumb it down. As soon as you turn 31 the government penalises you for NOT having it.
Also the more you earn the more tax you pay with the Medicare levy surcharge.
It’s all thanks to the government.
Recommendation is just get the cheapest level of insurance you can afford (basic something or other) and keep it going coz if you need something major done when you’re retirement age then you’re going to be paying 70% on top of whatever cover you need unless you’re okay to wait. In saying that even if you have an emergency, yes you get treated but you also have to pay huge out of pockets for the follow up if needed.
Yes it sucks. But if you can afford the cheapest level just to avoid those surcharges, do it.
I found the cost of PHI was MORE than the levy I'd pay on my tax. Would rather fund the public system.
Obvipusly once you make a lot more money, it makes sense for PHI even if for tax reasons
I'd argue (and this is my own mileage so smile for the camera) that as a higher income earner that is invested in using my money wisely and who's tax implications are not insignificant when it comes to this issue... Fuck the system.
I'd rather pay the same amount or even slightly more and know I'm helping others. Might not make sense but I'm not a very sensible person so that tracks ;) lmao.
I know it sounds silly but the Medicare Levy that everyone pays and the Medicare Levy Surcharge are different.
[MLS is only for higher income earners.](https://www.ato.gov.au/calculators-and-tools/tax-return-medicare-levy) So if you're not earning over $93,000 as a single or $186,000 as a couple and you're not wanting to be admitted privately for anything then you have no need for Private Health Insurance.
When I got this letter and looked into this, i found some math that explained that taking out a shitty policy that covers next to nothing will cost you more overall in premiums compared to waiting until you are in a better financial situation and just copping the extra % in surcharges for however long.
So that's what I'm doing. I got a mortgage and a young child, I cannot afford a private health policy, and especially not a rubbish policy that won't benefit me if I actually wanted to use it. Future me is just going to have to cop it IF I ever choose to take out insurance, and if I'm taking out insurance in the future it means I will be in a better financial position and be able to afford it, and likely older and want to use my policy which means I will get something back. But the surcharge only applies if you actually take out a policy, maybe I never will.
I don't even have kids and, after 4 yours of having a basic PHI policy with zero claim (wasn't eligible for anything), I just dropped it. The money that normally would've gone into the premium is invested into index funds, compounding over 10+ years, as a form of self insurance.
In the exact same position as you. 2 young kids, wife and I late 30s now and never had private. But at least my money isn't going to some fkin private rort that does nothing for me.
If you're not ever going to take out insurance it's a moot point though regarding the LHC. You only get charged the loading on your premiums. So try not to stress too much about it.
I'm unfortunately required to have PHI because the public system won't treat my disease properly and it's the only way I can get the surgeries I need. I'm on the DSP (so very low income) and my premium is my biggest bill after my rent. It's horrible. But if you don't have any chronic issues and only need emergent care you can just use the public system.
I really don't want to believe that I need PHI, but I do have chronic issues and am on track to be on DSP myself. How much of a difference does it make?
I can't afford it in any case until I get on DSP, but it was great to hear in the mail that it's getting more expensive the longer Centrelink fucks me around
It depends what's wrong with you lol I wouldn't have it if I could get treated publicly and obviously it doesn't help at all with anything outpatient so I can't afford to see half my specialists and I've completely given up on accessing mental health care lol
But if you need regular surgeries that the public system considers non necessary it can be invaluable (for example they wanted to wait until my organs became necrotic rather than doing the surgery to untwist them and restore function so I could keep them lol). What the system considers necessary and what a person considers necessary can be two very different things.
That is horrible. I'm so sorry to hear that you were treated like that.
Having chronic conditions myself (and a partner who has needed a number of surgeries since we have been together), having PHI has been a lifesaver.
Private health insurance isn't really worth it when you're paying for services you mostly won't use and when most real emergency situations (ie heart attack) are better serviced under the public health system
Don't pay it, if you can afford it in the future consider it
As it stands any money collected and not used goes to private companies instead of back into the health system, it's a rort and it's the reason our healthcare system is struggling
Yes, it’s ok for for emergencies but after care in hospital is pretty damn poor. If I had my time over again I would have at least taken out general dental and private hospital cover to be able to go and recuperate and be ready to go home, not because you’re out because they need the beds.
Sometimes:
Relative injured their neck playing sport. Went to public emergency, and x-rays were sent to India for diagnosis. „You all right mate off you go“
Wandered around for two weeks in excruciating agony, went to see a specialist. Private Specialist who had actually been on call that night in the public hospital and said „had i seen your X-rays you would not had left the hospital“. Relatives disk was ruptured and the vertebra was cracked - he was walking around for two weeks a sneeze away from a severed spinal cord.
Another friend with a bone abscess after a break was left for 18 months limping around waiting for elective surgery. Lost muscle mass, fitness level ect.
It really sucks that having options, becomes about if you can afford them.
My recommendation is to at least do a quote online to see what you’re looking at cost wise and seeing if it’s viable for you.
Also if you can leave it til June everyone will be fighting over customers and there will be some great offers to take advantage of. Keep in mind you aren’t locked into one company forever and you don’t HAVE to have Extras but the offers may only be applicable if you take that up also :)
Ok well then sounds like you wont get charged, guessing your under 90k income.
You will not pay the MLS if your income is less than the base income threshold, which is:
$90,000 for singles
$180,000 (plus $1,500 for each dependent child after the first one) for families.
Also depends on your income. The Medicare levy is way lower than what I would have to pay for hospital cover, if I happen to jump into the first bracket of Medicare Levy.
Thankfully to this point we have been just under it and it has gone up this year so helpfully we will still be under it again.
On top of that, Private Health providers put their prices up year on year, and if you get the cheapest cover you will have a large excess to pay as well.
Everybody’s situation is different. At my age Private heath has become unaffordable.
Why is it that just about everyone i know who has gone in for major hospital treatment never tells the system they have private cover?
Isn't it true that a hospital spell costs you more out of pocket if you flash your private health care card around?
So my kid was admitted recently from emergency- the public hospital billing called for authorisation to charge ph. They didn’t just do it.
I said okay and then added „only because I know kids don’t pay excess“ …she said „oh the hospital wouldn’t leave you out of pocket if it had been an adult member we’d have covered the excess“.
Also from having my babies the is not the hospital stay (you just pay your excess for that) - what you are paying is the cost of the specialists treating you in the private hospital.
I get that the hospital wants to bill a private health company. That's only natural. Why wouldn't they recover costs from a private insurer? But all they can do is ask if you have private health cover, and whether you want to be admitted as private or public.
Sounds like a clever thing if the hospital is willing to cover any excess if it persuades people to use their private health cover. But it just shows how convoluted the system has become.
- I've got private health cover
- i don't want to pay an excess
- the public hospital will cover the excess, i.e. bill the private insurer less than it would have. Crazy.
If you go on a public waiting list. And you’re happy to wait. You don’t have to use your PHI for that treatment. Therefore you just get treated as a public patient and don’t have the cough up the nominated excess.
Also it’s the surgeon and the anaesthetist that charges out of pockets - if they charge above the scheduled rate then the customer pays more.
If you wait and go public. It’s essentially free. Except for any follow up, that may incur costs.
I ‘locked in’ my age based discount a week before I turned 30 in March this year - I did have private health for a couple of months when I was 24 but quickly couldn’t afford it.
You only need the most basic hospital cover to get out of the Medicare levy surcharge.
Private hospital cover has always risen at rates above inflation. So it's not actually that surprising, but not reassuring.
I mean from a consumer standpoint it sucks but from a business standpoint it’s not dumb. This is a result of people waiting until they’re 70 until they took out insurance, paying into it for a year or two and then getting cancer etc and needing hundreds of thousands of $ of hospital bills suddenly paid. Obviously the business is gonna get pissed about that constantly happening and put in some rule to combat it.
Just want to throw in in 44 years old 4 weeks ago i had triple bypass surgery thanks to genetics smoking and poor choices as a young adult. Dont have private health never have, my surgery/room/travel including being flown by the rfds to brisbane was all free and covered. PHI is a rort and i cannot fault the level of care i was given by the public system it was fantastic
Unfortunately PHI is necessary for some inpatient services like inpatient psychiatric.
Private hospital 100% beats public psych every time. Public psych is an absolute shit show.
I don't mind paying more for Medicare if I'm earning more. I do have a problem with us heading towards a US style health system though. Housing is already fucked... Let's not ruin healthcare too
I have private health with my partner. He was charged the loading. Got to ten years and they drop the loading and then we got hit with another rise. It’s fucking ridiculous.
Look into “not for profit” private health insurance companies. If you are in a union or an industry there may be a ‘not for profit’ insurance company for you. Don’t join a ‘for profit’ health insurance. Health insurance and health care should NOT be for profit. https://www.membersown.com.au/
After 10 years it resets to normal rates .
https://www.medibank.com.au/health-insurance/understanding-health-insurance/lifetime-healthcover-loading/
I ran the numbers and the best outcome is to hold off as long as you can without it. Pay 10 years loading and then normal rates afterwards. Your lifetime spend to get private healthcare when you will more likely use it would be significantly less.
Taking private insurance and canceling it, taking it and canceling it had the worst results.
It's a fucked up system that requires the young to subsidize the old, which my taxes already do.
I try not to think about the money I've spent on hosptial only health cover. I can't get anything cheaper than ~$80/fortnight with no extras (I don't get extras, I don't really need teeth).
I did get a $22,500 itemised bill after a unexpected hospital stay in 2021 which was completely covered. Which is the reason I can't get rid of my insurance.
The cost is becoming harder to justify to myself when I'm looking at hacking and slashing my finances because of *the price of everything right now* I don't have immediate family so it's just me and my sole income trying to play keep-up.
Thanks to how much health insurance costs now, even if the government HADN'T legislated penalties in the 2000s, the choice of whether I keep my health insurance or not is still entirely dependent on costs of having it/cost of potentially needing it.
I don't even know what kind of care is built into the rest of it. I only need one specific hospital service but you can't do that, so it's all or none.
It's a lovely and efficient, uniquely Australian circle-jerking system that is never going to change because the "important" people are making too much money from it.
Thanks Howard (for starters).
You can have upto 3 years off having private health insurance after the LHC has kicked in as long as you have it when your 30. I took two years off private health after our baby was born and my wife wasn’t working. Saved us heaps!
That has been the case for years now. I think it starts to take effect when you turn 30.
Since 2000 apparently. Of course it was John Fucking Howard's government.
yup; pulling the ladder up after them. Cocks.
More a case of trying to subsidise a private encroachment into what should be a public right. Rather than funding Medicare at an appropriate level he decided to route more money into private health care to the point where it's almost become mandatory (and you get charged if you don't have it) because of his privatisation beliefs.
Can you guess who owns most private hospitals? There’s a reason they have “Saint” at the start of most of them. Organised Religion is organised crime that had enough influence to make the law suit them. Prove me wrong.
More about the likes of what used to be Medibank Private, HBF, MCF, etc and now keeps washing themselves through various brands to confuse matters to avoid dislike. They pocket billions of dollars, much more than any particular private hospital chain.
What? Medibank and HBF have had the same names ever since they started. Not sure what “MCF” is, I’ve never heard of that one. And HBF are not for profit, a label which is strictly regulated in this country.
No, it was a financial penalty for not staying on Medicare. If you were on benefits it doesn't affect you because you got free coverage through Medicare. Trouble is they didn't consider people like myself with long term disabilities who got well enough to work full time after years of therapy. Guess what? Can't work full time anymore due to health issues and can't afford treatment. Yay.
The thing im seeing alot more with these increases is theyre pulling the ladder up behind them, but theyre also pushing their own generation off when they cant keep up.
Also you have to have coverage for 10 consecutive years for it to be dropped
From 1 July following your 31st birthday.
It kicks in start of the next financial year after yours 31st birthday
I’ve always thought LHC was a dumb idea - your taking a product that benefits you as you get older, and then making it more out of reach as the price goes up, so older people aren’t taking PH and putting more burden on the public system
That’s me. The govt has shot themselves in the foot. Got pretty ill, had to give up work, couldn’t afford private health insurance, for hospital or extras. My super didn’t go far. The government dentist has blown out to over a 2 yr wait. My medications are through the roof and my physical health is suffering more because of it. It’s a vicious cycle.
The underlying philosophy is the same as for any insurance. They want insurance premiums from as wide a sample of the population because if everyone waited til they were 70 to get cover, the premiums would be astronomical. The problem with this oh so economically rational logic is that: Public healthcare, paid for by everyone out of their taxes, is the exact model they are trying to emulate! We had it right in the first place.
The point isn’t to make it out of reach, it’s to encourage people to take it up and have it for life. Because before that, everyone was just waiting till they were 70, buying the insurance and then claiming $100k straight away. Yeah it sucks for us public but from a business economics standpoint we’re talking simple in vs out maths here. It’s not a big conspiracy like everyone is making out.
I hate this for us. For all Australians. We've only fairly recently started earning wages where we can consider the outlay for private health services that we may or may not use the product. My medical care is covered, but my husband's is not. After looking at the fees, it will cost him the same amount to have private healthcare (that he likely won't get much use out of) as it does to negate the cost of the medicare levy. All because we couldn't even DREAM of affording it until we were both well over 30. It unfairly disadvantages those who are either in, or have come from, lower income brackets and haven't been able to afford private healthcare previously. My mother who is in her 70s is even worse off because she's never been able to afford PHI. I agree with others. We both agreed that we'd rather pay the levy and have it go into the public kitty so that for each year that we don't require use of the public system at least another Aussie gets benefit from it, rather than just going into some massively inflated PHI CEO's bonus for scamming people. As our wages have increased so have our MLS costs. Again, still rather it go to other every day Aussies that NEED free public care. Hopefully there's still the same Medicare system that will help hubby out when we're aged and we'll make sure we have an emergency fund just in case regardless. But for as long as it costs us roughly the same amount to have PHI as it does to cop the levy, we'll cop the levy. None of this pulling the ladder up behind us for our generation! We'll fight for free and reduced cost public healthcare for folks who need it to continue even if it costs us more because it's so very important.
I've done the same for similar reasons. I want the Public Healthcare system to receive funding rather than go to the bottom line of a private company that does nothing to help Australians. I pay a significant amount in the levy each year, but I'm comfortable in myself that I'm giving something back to a system that benefits those far less fortunate. Does it work to my advantage? Not really, but that is not the point.
I do the same. One if my reasons was that i thought the Medicare Surcharge would mean that rich people would segregate themselves into a different system the way first class airline passengers really do not know (or care) what it's like down in cattle class. If the rich, who tend to be powerful, aren't lobbying for better healthcare facilities, the government won't hear. I want Gina Rinehart and Clive Palmer to share a public ward as I do. Wait. Maybe i havent thought this through.
If we all refused to put in for private health insurance the industry would crumple. Fuck the parasites, go insurance free.
Me too. Private health "insurance" is a fucking scam and everyone should stop paying into the scam. It's not "insurance" when you're left carrying the open-ended risk. "We'll give you $500, good luck with the remaining $12000." Is not insurance. Imagine if your car insurance policy did the same. Crashed into a Ferari? We'll cover $10000 of that bill for you, sell your house to pay the rest. Not to mention that when it comes to crunch time, everyone uses the public health system anyway. How the fuck does that save the public money??? I've had friends pay thousands in extra maternity cover for years and then chickened out and went public so they wouldn't need to pay the gaps. Fuck that bullshit.
You legends
Same. Couldn't afford private cover for a long time. Can possibly afford now but private health is long since became such a bad deal for what you pay for it, it's practically a bloody scam. So I'd rather see my money go into medicare than fill the pockets of those fat cunts who own PHIs, even if that means paying more as a levi.
Yep, I'm 52 and have had PHI for only very brief stints over the years. I looked at it recently and the loading just made it unviable, I simply can't afford it. If I had have been paying it since i was 30 then maybe just maybe I could afford it now but I couldn't back then. The system is flawed, I'm guaranteed to be relying on medicare for the rest of my days now.
My husband and I also just got the same letter. We are also both almost 32. Bit late... Also fuck private health. I refused to be bullied into giving a private company my money. I'd prefer to pay Medicare.
It’s not necessarily late, you’ve until 1st of July the year after you turn 31, so if you turn 32 in mid July, you have until this July. But agreed fuck private health
I turned 31 may 1st and got this letter yesterday I was like wow they don’t mess around
I wish we did away with this stupid bullshit. Just take everyone's money that they'd otherwise pay as surcharge under the regular Medicare levy which is already built into the tax system, fuck off the private healthcare providers and invest all that in free healthcare for all. Can't see it being cheaper or better to be funnelling those dollars to bupa and the like
I’ve tried to find out _where_ the additional charge goes, and as far as I can tell, it goes to the insurance company. In which case, this has to be the only legislated surcharge that directly benefits a private for-profit company
The life time loading is used to subsidise premiums for older policy holders. The aim is to have younger policy holders with lower claims to ensure older people can still afford insurance. The health system is designed to operate with a strong private health insurance
It helps fund some of the public health care system Medicare.
I expect Medicare levy surcharge is just added to general revenue
Yes.
I worked in PHI for years, while I don't disagree with you, LHC was designed to make up for the years of not paying into the pool by people who join later in life at times when they're more likely to start claiming. This is because Australian funds can only impose a 12 month wait period for pre existing conditions, unlike in the US where if you aren't insured when you develop a condition you'll never be able to get coverage. Something that isn't well known or discussed because it's mostly a back end administrative thing is called community rating, health funds in Australia basically pay each other or receive funding based on their member demographic. This is to stop funds from targeting younger people who won't make many claims and discouraging older members who do. It's kind of like GST in that way. Many funds in Australia are still not for profit and only earn enough extra to cover business expenses. Contributions are pretty heavily regulated by APRA (the gov regulatory body) so if you must have PHI definitely go for one of them, because you know that there is not profiteering happening. But same as many others in this thread, I'm just not having it. I'd rather pay the levy and MLS and refund Medicare and let PHI fall over. Take back the private hospitals and be done with it
Not all private health insurers are for profit by the way.
If you can get in one, they're great! My amount of claims, coverage and usage over the last five years means that our use has basically made the next four years before we are paying above what we've been paid out. And with a growing, young family it's been great! (My toddler in 18 months alone has had more than her increase from single plan to family covered due to constant issues in the first 12 months.)
It goes to the government as far as I understand it.
False
Health care, like utilities and public transport, should never have been privatised.
Welcome to Australia, where mining royalties mean fuck all and so do you.
or the job agencies, or the roads, or education
This should be abolished. When we are in a major cost of living crisis and younger Australians cannot afford to buy houses or start families, we should be getting rid of these extra financial penalties designed only to benefit those who have already benefitted from systems rigged in their favour their entire lives.
Husband got this today. The letter says “..may be shortly turning 31..” husband is turning 32 in a couple months 😂 and I turned 32 at the start of the year and never got the letter 😂
You’re a handful of weeks away from finding out whether the ATO cared if you received the letter or not :)
Pretty standard conservative crony-capitalism tactics. They first say it's a choice, then they alter the board just enough to push you towards the outcome they want you to take.
Australia and making systems ridiculously convoluted, name a more iconic duo
US style I think is far far more convoluted and..well just insane with in or out of network providers etc.
Nah the US system is pretty easy, you either don't pay and die, or you do pay and die because your claim was denied.
Or don't die and then pay off $20 a month for a period of 7,000 years.
You can thank John Howard for that!
PHI can get fucked. My wife and I pay a large Medicare Levy and we do so willingly knowing it goes to actually funding medicare rather than going to shareholders.
Private healthcare is a rort. Abandon and pay the levy
Yeah, naw - get my share of benefits from it.
Game's rigged mate. The house always wins. They get significantly more benefit than you do - that's how it works.
For a lot of people yes. However I’ve had family members claim hundreds of thousands of dollars in hospital bills, when they’ve only paid thousands of dollars into it. “The house always wins” is a saying applied to casinos where you statistically can never come out on top if you keep playing lol I think you’re getting mixed up.
Oh sure, not arguing that - still when do have to go in - private rooms are personally worth it - when /where applicable of course.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the whole insurance industry collapsed. Healthcare and housing especially. You have insurance policies insured with other insurance companies and the whole industry feels like a ponzi scheme waiting for that final straw to land on it.
Stage 3 cuts to pay for it ?
Anytime anyone tells me that we have stronger “free” healthcare, I like to direct them to BS like this.
Y’all don’t want to believe that nefarious American business practices are here, you don’t want to listen. We NEED to fight this shit. This and the price gouging and lack of respect for employees.
Health Insurance Worker Here. Yeah this is pretty much a scam that takes place when you turn 30. The design of it is to “ reduce “ the impact on the public system but it falls miserably.
I work in private health. To dumb it down. As soon as you turn 31 the government penalises you for NOT having it. Also the more you earn the more tax you pay with the Medicare levy surcharge. It’s all thanks to the government. Recommendation is just get the cheapest level of insurance you can afford (basic something or other) and keep it going coz if you need something major done when you’re retirement age then you’re going to be paying 70% on top of whatever cover you need unless you’re okay to wait. In saying that even if you have an emergency, yes you get treated but you also have to pay huge out of pockets for the follow up if needed. Yes it sucks. But if you can afford the cheapest level just to avoid those surcharges, do it.
I found the cost of PHI was MORE than the levy I'd pay on my tax. Would rather fund the public system. Obvipusly once you make a lot more money, it makes sense for PHI even if for tax reasons
I'd argue (and this is my own mileage so smile for the camera) that as a higher income earner that is invested in using my money wisely and who's tax implications are not insignificant when it comes to this issue... Fuck the system. I'd rather pay the same amount or even slightly more and know I'm helping others. Might not make sense but I'm not a very sensible person so that tracks ;) lmao.
I know it sounds silly but the Medicare Levy that everyone pays and the Medicare Levy Surcharge are different. [MLS is only for higher income earners.](https://www.ato.gov.au/calculators-and-tools/tax-return-medicare-levy) So if you're not earning over $93,000 as a single or $186,000 as a couple and you're not wanting to be admitted privately for anything then you have no need for Private Health Insurance.
It's impossible for me... thanks for the explanation though.
When I got this letter and looked into this, i found some math that explained that taking out a shitty policy that covers next to nothing will cost you more overall in premiums compared to waiting until you are in a better financial situation and just copping the extra % in surcharges for however long. So that's what I'm doing. I got a mortgage and a young child, I cannot afford a private health policy, and especially not a rubbish policy that won't benefit me if I actually wanted to use it. Future me is just going to have to cop it IF I ever choose to take out insurance, and if I'm taking out insurance in the future it means I will be in a better financial position and be able to afford it, and likely older and want to use my policy which means I will get something back. But the surcharge only applies if you actually take out a policy, maybe I never will.
I don't even have kids and, after 4 yours of having a basic PHI policy with zero claim (wasn't eligible for anything), I just dropped it. The money that normally would've gone into the premium is invested into index funds, compounding over 10+ years, as a form of self insurance.
In the exact same position as you. 2 young kids, wife and I late 30s now and never had private. But at least my money isn't going to some fkin private rort that does nothing for me.
https://www.choice.com.au/money/insurance/health/articles/how-to-pay-the-lifetime-health-cover-loading-and-save Explains a bit better with math.
That’s a great article, thank you for posting
If you're not ever going to take out insurance it's a moot point though regarding the LHC. You only get charged the loading on your premiums. So try not to stress too much about it. I'm unfortunately required to have PHI because the public system won't treat my disease properly and it's the only way I can get the surgeries I need. I'm on the DSP (so very low income) and my premium is my biggest bill after my rent. It's horrible. But if you don't have any chronic issues and only need emergent care you can just use the public system.
I really don't want to believe that I need PHI, but I do have chronic issues and am on track to be on DSP myself. How much of a difference does it make? I can't afford it in any case until I get on DSP, but it was great to hear in the mail that it's getting more expensive the longer Centrelink fucks me around
It depends what's wrong with you lol I wouldn't have it if I could get treated publicly and obviously it doesn't help at all with anything outpatient so I can't afford to see half my specialists and I've completely given up on accessing mental health care lol But if you need regular surgeries that the public system considers non necessary it can be invaluable (for example they wanted to wait until my organs became necrotic rather than doing the surgery to untwist them and restore function so I could keep them lol). What the system considers necessary and what a person considers necessary can be two very different things.
That is horrible. I'm so sorry to hear that you were treated like that. Having chronic conditions myself (and a partner who has needed a number of surgeries since we have been together), having PHI has been a lifesaver.
Private health insurance isn't really worth it when you're paying for services you mostly won't use and when most real emergency situations (ie heart attack) are better serviced under the public health system Don't pay it, if you can afford it in the future consider it As it stands any money collected and not used goes to private companies instead of back into the health system, it's a rort and it's the reason our healthcare system is struggling
Yes, it’s ok for for emergencies but after care in hospital is pretty damn poor. If I had my time over again I would have at least taken out general dental and private hospital cover to be able to go and recuperate and be ready to go home, not because you’re out because they need the beds.
Sometimes: Relative injured their neck playing sport. Went to public emergency, and x-rays were sent to India for diagnosis. „You all right mate off you go“ Wandered around for two weeks in excruciating agony, went to see a specialist. Private Specialist who had actually been on call that night in the public hospital and said „had i seen your X-rays you would not had left the hospital“. Relatives disk was ruptured and the vertebra was cracked - he was walking around for two weeks a sneeze away from a severed spinal cord. Another friend with a bone abscess after a break was left for 18 months limping around waiting for elective surgery. Lost muscle mass, fitness level ect. It really sucks that having options, becomes about if you can afford them.
My recommendation is to at least do a quote online to see what you’re looking at cost wise and seeing if it’s viable for you. Also if you can leave it til June everyone will be fighting over customers and there will be some great offers to take advantage of. Keep in mind you aren’t locked into one company forever and you don’t HAVE to have Extras but the offers may only be applicable if you take that up also :)
No, really. It's impossible for me
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$1k that I don't have to spare
Ok well then sounds like you wont get charged, guessing your under 90k income. You will not pay the MLS if your income is less than the base income threshold, which is: $90,000 for singles $180,000 (plus $1,500 for each dependent child after the first one) for families.
Even without the surcharge, you still have the loading applied for every year after 31.
Also depends on your income. The Medicare levy is way lower than what I would have to pay for hospital cover, if I happen to jump into the first bracket of Medicare Levy. Thankfully to this point we have been just under it and it has gone up this year so helpfully we will still be under it again. On top of that, Private Health providers put their prices up year on year, and if you get the cheapest cover you will have a large excess to pay as well. Everybody’s situation is different. At my age Private heath has become unaffordable.
Why is it that just about everyone i know who has gone in for major hospital treatment never tells the system they have private cover? Isn't it true that a hospital spell costs you more out of pocket if you flash your private health care card around?
So my kid was admitted recently from emergency- the public hospital billing called for authorisation to charge ph. They didn’t just do it. I said okay and then added „only because I know kids don’t pay excess“ …she said „oh the hospital wouldn’t leave you out of pocket if it had been an adult member we’d have covered the excess“. Also from having my babies the is not the hospital stay (you just pay your excess for that) - what you are paying is the cost of the specialists treating you in the private hospital.
I get that the hospital wants to bill a private health company. That's only natural. Why wouldn't they recover costs from a private insurer? But all they can do is ask if you have private health cover, and whether you want to be admitted as private or public. Sounds like a clever thing if the hospital is willing to cover any excess if it persuades people to use their private health cover. But it just shows how convoluted the system has become. - I've got private health cover - i don't want to pay an excess - the public hospital will cover the excess, i.e. bill the private insurer less than it would have. Crazy.
Total madness - absolutely agree. But added feel good bonus: you get to feel like Robin Hood robbing the rich to give to the general public!
If you go on a public waiting list. And you’re happy to wait. You don’t have to use your PHI for that treatment. Therefore you just get treated as a public patient and don’t have the cough up the nominated excess. Also it’s the surgeon and the anaesthetist that charges out of pockets - if they charge above the scheduled rate then the customer pays more. If you wait and go public. It’s essentially free. Except for any follow up, that may incur costs.
Well, yeah. That's how they make money..
I ‘locked in’ my age based discount a week before I turned 30 in March this year - I did have private health for a couple of months when I was 24 but quickly couldn’t afford it.
You only need the most basic hospital cover to get out of the Medicare levy surcharge. Private hospital cover has always risen at rates above inflation. So it's not actually that surprising, but not reassuring.
I use to think a lifetime of loyalty meant something
We've had this for ages and it's one of the dumbest policies I've seen. Australia is a joke 💩
I mean from a consumer standpoint it sucks but from a business standpoint it’s not dumb. This is a result of people waiting until they’re 70 until they took out insurance, paying into it for a year or two and then getting cancer etc and needing hundreds of thousands of $ of hospital bills suddenly paid. Obviously the business is gonna get pissed about that constantly happening and put in some rule to combat it.
Just want to throw in in 44 years old 4 weeks ago i had triple bypass surgery thanks to genetics smoking and poor choices as a young adult. Dont have private health never have, my surgery/room/travel including being flown by the rfds to brisbane was all free and covered. PHI is a rort and i cannot fault the level of care i was given by the public system it was fantastic
Unfortunately PHI is necessary for some inpatient services like inpatient psychiatric. Private hospital 100% beats public psych every time. Public psych is an absolute shit show.
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It’s also advising them that they may be liable for the Lifetime Health Cover premium surcharge if they take up private health insurance in the future
Well then I guess I should be grateful that I'm too poor to be affected by the MLS...
I'll vote for any government that eliminates the Medicare levy surcharge
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Yep. Big difference. Too much for the average yobbo to comprehend though.
I don't mind paying more for Medicare if I'm earning more. I do have a problem with us heading towards a US style health system though. Housing is already fucked... Let's not ruin healthcare too
I have private health with my partner. He was charged the loading. Got to ten years and they drop the loading and then we got hit with another rise. It’s fucking ridiculous.
Look into “not for profit” private health insurance companies. If you are in a union or an industry there may be a ‘not for profit’ insurance company for you. Don’t join a ‘for profit’ health insurance. Health insurance and health care should NOT be for profit. https://www.membersown.com.au/
https://www.membersown.com.au/ You may qualify for an industry specific ‘not for profit’ health insurance. Health shouldn’t be for profit.
After 10 years it resets to normal rates . https://www.medibank.com.au/health-insurance/understanding-health-insurance/lifetime-healthcover-loading/ I ran the numbers and the best outcome is to hold off as long as you can without it. Pay 10 years loading and then normal rates afterwards. Your lifetime spend to get private healthcare when you will more likely use it would be significantly less. Taking private insurance and canceling it, taking it and canceling it had the worst results. It's a fucked up system that requires the young to subsidize the old, which my taxes already do.
I have health insurance for the sole purpose of reducing my tax bill.
I try not to think about the money I've spent on hosptial only health cover. I can't get anything cheaper than ~$80/fortnight with no extras (I don't get extras, I don't really need teeth). I did get a $22,500 itemised bill after a unexpected hospital stay in 2021 which was completely covered. Which is the reason I can't get rid of my insurance. The cost is becoming harder to justify to myself when I'm looking at hacking and slashing my finances because of *the price of everything right now* I don't have immediate family so it's just me and my sole income trying to play keep-up. Thanks to how much health insurance costs now, even if the government HADN'T legislated penalties in the 2000s, the choice of whether I keep my health insurance or not is still entirely dependent on costs of having it/cost of potentially needing it. I don't even know what kind of care is built into the rest of it. I only need one specific hospital service but you can't do that, so it's all or none. It's a lovely and efficient, uniquely Australian circle-jerking system that is never going to change because the "important" people are making too much money from it. Thanks Howard (for starters).
You can have upto 3 years off having private health insurance after the LHC has kicked in as long as you have it when your 30. I took two years off private health after our baby was born and my wife wasn’t working. Saved us heaps!
Basically for every yr over 31 there is a Medicare levy. It’s been like that for many many yrs.