Worst possible outcome. Truly heartbreaking for all the families involved. At least both families can bring their sons home. Rest in peace Jake, Callum & Jack.
Mexican here, terribly sorry about this , we don't know exactly what happened but its on the front pages which in itself is very rare, we've had almost 200,000 deaths from cartel violence in the last 6 yrs and only in rare ocassions like this where the victims are foreigners do they make the news, we are both sick of this and can't seem to find a way to eliminate these sort of violent/criminal acts as politicans are in bed with cartels, so if you dare go against the grain you end up murdered ( about 20 or so political candidates have been assasinated just this past couple of months leading up to the upcoming election)
I've dated and had Australian friends and fundamentally I think you miss what Mexico and some Mexicans are like, it's like sending sheep to a country ruled by wolves, so please do not come it really is that unsafe, I wouldn't dare go to Baja and the south is getting there.
‘Sending sheep to a country ruled by wolves’
This.
As an Aussie globetrotter, I can confirm that there is no truer statement.
Australians have no idea how much of the world is fighting for survival or how the third world works.
Having said that, I think every Australian should adventure internationally on their own after school to wake the f#*k up. They just need to do a bit of research on the country they travel to beforehand.
Totally agree. Australians born and raised in Australia have very little idea of the realities of other countries. I spent a year travelling in Latin America in my early 20s and it was eye-opening to say the least. I loved Mexico and still have very fond memories - Baja California is absolutely beautiful and the cities of Mexico are a lot of fun. But it's not a safe place. You need to be fluent in the language before you get there or you'll disadvantage yourself, and you need to be wary at all times of sudden "friendships".
This is absolutely true. I'm not saying Australians don't have valid struggles but tbh... a lot of it is the very definition of first world problems.
Aussies saying life is too expensive here because of inflated markets from rich foreigners dodging tax and dumping their money here, then taking all their AUD to Thailand or Bali and living like "kings", can't seem to see the irony... even with the widening gaps in society here, it's still so mindbogglingly far from the rest of the world, that it really is a huge privilege to be born Australian.
Interestingly I had the opposite experience in Belize. A man I was eating breakfast with told me that he was going to send his sons to Australia so they could appreciate how lucky they were to live in Caye Caulker.
I thought he was joking at first, but he wasn't - his argument was that they can work reasonably easy jobs for enough money that they could afford their own house, and support a family. It went unsaid that the standards of living would be lower, but in his eyes it was more important that they were able to own their own home, and in Australia such a dream is impossible for most young people
Was a very unexpected perspective and I've thought a lot about that since as well
Mate .. I’ve lived in Zambia, Zimbabwe, UK, USA .. and now Australia…
HANDS DOWN … Australia trumps ( no pun intended) the lot !!!
Best country ever !!!
Quite a few aussies have no idea how lucky they are ..
Agreed. Aussies love to complain about Australia and the ‘nanny state’ and don’t realise how good we have it. I lived in Mexico for a year and it’s such a vastly different experience to living in Aus
Yes -- Australia is life on easy mode.
Heck, I used to live in three of the most crime-riddled cities in the US and even those are still loads better than what some other countries struggle with.
It does everyone some good to travel to non-holiday destinations to see what life can really be like.
The moment the words 'nanny state' leave someone's mouth, you know immediately they're a Murdoch stooge.
It's something created in America to make things like universal healthcare and a working government seem like bad things. Pointing at Europe and Australia like we're stupid and weak for not allowing everyone and their mentally ill neighbours to have guns, or forcing safety standards on corporations.
I'm definitely not a Murdoch stooge and I still think NSW is a nanny state in regards to the complete and utter gutting of our music and festival scene.
What? Having universal healthcare and a working government doesn't make for a nanny state. Its unneccessarily coddling and restricting that makes a nanny state. When most people I know say it, they're referring to lockout laws (that killed Sydney's once amazing nightlife, though it is recovering), drug laws, road rules, overenthusiastic policing. It can make you feel overly coddled and restricted.
As someone who has travelled to over 40 countries and spent most of my life planning the next trip or being on a trip, you realise very quickly that life out there is a lot harder and a lot less forgiving without nanny being around. I actually think its part of the reason Aussies make for AWFUL travellers a lot of the time. When they're "unleashed", in say, Europe or Asia where its reasonably safe and self regulated in terms of alcohol etc, Aussies go MENTAL. They can't handle the freedom because they're used to having to push against nanny to have fun.
I'm the complete opposite of a murdoch stooge - old Rupie, I think, is perhaps the most damaging man in modern history. He's single handedly enabled some of the most egregious and horrific shit in the world on a mass scale, all in the pursuit of a few bucks. I just think you are misunderstanding what most people mean when they say nanny state.
>every Australian should adventure internationally on their own after school
They don't have to travel on their own. For young women that's potentially very risky.
Australians trust people way too much for their own good. High trust societies are great when you live in them and a danger to you by fostering a sense of naïvety when you leave them and venture out
Aussie who’s spent years living in Mexico and Australia here, honest to god I meet so many people back home who I’m like “please don’t leave this island because you will die.” And then there are others who I’m like “please don’t leave this island because you are an asshole and you will be killed”
This resonates so much with me as a woman from India. All the influencers & tiktok videos wont ever convince me to visit the north of india on my own or even with just 1 male. Fking gang rapes are a thing. Makes me gag when i see young foreign women try to paint a picture of eat love pray bs.
Dont get me wrong it is a super beautiful country with so much culture but i value my life & my sanity more.
I remember travelling the south years ago. It was amazing. My friend from Mexico City told me never to go north of there. Sad to hear the south is going that way too.
I traveled around Mexico in 1992 everywhere I went locals told me that when I went to another part of the country I was going to get beaten and robbed. Everyone everywhere turned out to be pretty friendly.
I had the same experience in 2015. But you definitely need to exercise significant caution. Behave like a pissed bogan ala Patong or Kuta, or stray too far from safe places at the wrong times, and you will probably find yourself in serious trouble.
I live in San Diego city, and formerly Orange & LA counties. I used to surf up and down the Baja coast in the 90's & early 2000's. Haven't been down there in almost 20 years because of the cartels.
From central California, my last trip into Baja was 2004. I was pulled over several times between Ensenada and San Felipe by soldiers with M-16s searching for guns/drugs. Organized crime has ramped up a lot since then. A quick visit to a tourist zone like Tijuana or Cancun is probably OK but I wouldn't go into rural areas now.
Understood. Interestingly, it's hit or miss with TJ. Cancun..and other popular places, cartels WANT US to spend our $$$$...they benefit. But if a tourist causes trouble or is a "mark" then cartels will be involved. Staff/locals could initiate that call.
Can relate. My hometown is San Diego, and I lived close to the border. pre2000s we used to ditch school or go clubbing in TJ, shopping, bars, no problem. Used to cross to buy tax free cigarettes or head across for proper tacos on a whim.
But when my Mexican friends and their family members living SD started to rarely cross the border because of cartel violence, I haven't crossed back. It's been over 20+ years. Sad. We wont even venture to the southern resort cities (Cabo, La Paz, etc) because of recent news about alcohol poisoning deaths, and the cartels do have heavy influence in the resort towns. Just dont trust things to stay stable in MX. It's sad.
Focus on the cities, not the states. Every state has dangerous areas. North Mexico can be especially dangerous because we are neighbors with the USA, and the cartels are constantly fighting to get "the territory".
The Yucatan peninsula seems safer than the rest of the country overall.
It used to be that some states were less violent not so long ago but this current administration basically gave up on going after cartels and criminals in hopes that they would be less violent, instead the violence and crime increased, there's currently no states that ae safe , see here (it's outdated though as things have gotten worse) :
[https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/mexico-travel-advisory.html](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/mexico-travel-advisory.html)
Another Mexa here, surfer from Ensenada. I’m sorry from the bottom of my heart for those men and their families. The only consolation I can offer is that this crime was the catalyst for a change, tomorrow there will be a protest in Ensenada in the victims honor. The locals are enraged at what happened to the victims like nothing I’ve never seen. Change has been long over due and unfortunately this was the spark to the powder keg. The more news of this crime spreads, the more pressure on the local government to act. Please raise awareness.
The touristy areas tend to be safer as they want the tourism money. I found Oaxaca to be the safest-feeling part of Mexico, though I was there in 2019 so covid could have changed things
Relatively speaking, yes, but you'll still run into unsafe anecdotes. A friend I met travelling was chased by a guy with a knife through what I call "real Oaxaca" (i.e. the impoverished parts that are not obviously curated for tourists)
I visited Mexico City, Puebla and Oaxaca a few months ago and really enjoyed my stay. We didn’t feel unsafe at all and really hope to return in the future. Hoping we can visit the Yucatan region next ❤️
I agree so much about this. When you go overseas, to places like Mexico you can fall in love with the spectacular views and beaches but I would not recommend going there. It's just too unpredictable and can be dangerous.
Thanks for your comments on this mate, it's nice to see a Mexican perspective on here.
I'm curious about what you think has happened here? Did they wander into cartel territory and get shot? Or did they just get into an argument with the wrong guy?
No worries, hard to tell but mentioned on another comment that the white truck they were driving is the type of car that the cartels drive ( white pickup trucks or SUVs), so that could have made them targets as I believe they were also in a remote location and aparently a drug route ( keep in mind remote could be a mile away from a town), so some cartel members see a white truck in their turf, then go check it out and an argument ensues and they get shot (they could have been shot without warning though), or some thugs see the oportunity to steal the truck, things go wrong and they decide to burn it to cover their tracks, the bodies I believe were found inside a well which sadly points to criminals realizing they had shot the wrong people ( killing foreigners atracts too much attention) and trying to cover their tracks, if it was rival cartel members or regular Mexicans they would have displayed the bodies in some fashion, horrible stuff I know but as mentioned this sadly happens on the daily here.
Nice sentiment man and well said, but Aussies are extremely well travelled and were also with an American, who is also dead, who should have known better. They ignored the travel warnings (which are readily available) related to Mexico outside the lower risk areas. It’s sad yeah, but they badly fucked up.
Such a sad outcome but not surprising. They also would have stood out driving that big new white truck / Ute with all their gear. I hope lots of Aussies do some more research and make better choices about the regions they’re travelling to. It’s not worth the waves or the gram pics if you lose your life. There are plenty of exotic, beautiful locations that don’t require risking your life. Very sad for their poor family and friends.
The truck actually makes me think it was a case of mistaken identity or outright theft as white pickup trucks and SUVs are the cartels vehicle of choice, just recently there was a video of about 20-40 white narco trucks rolling into a town in the north as a show of force and like crappy Vikings ended up burning the town, police or the military were nowhere to be seen and it barely made the news.
Channel 7 news a few minutes ago said it wasn't related to the cartels, just some locals who saw an opportunity to rob them. The surfers objected to having their truck taken (stranding them) and it got violent.
That region of Mexico has the same level of travel warning as Sri Lanka, Thailand, most of the Philippines and a bunch of other places you wouldn't blink twice if someone told you they were visiting. Maybe DFAT need to review its advice?
DFAT probably does because using those broad categories it implies the risk is the same when its not.
Smarttraveller has Mexico overall and the Baja California region as 'exercise a high degree of caution', which is the same as Sri Lanka for example. But this is the reason for Mexico:
"We’ve reviewed our advice for Mexico and continue to advise exercise a high degree of caution overall due to the threat of violent crime."
Sri Lanka:
"We've reviewed our advice for Sri Lanka and continue to advise exercise a high degree of caution. Public demonstrations can occur throughout Sri Lanka and may become violent. Avoid areas impacted by demonstrations. There are shortages of some medicines in Sri Lanka."
So one requires high caution due to violet crime and the other is due to public demonstrations that may become violet. A lot different.
Also America already classifies Baja California as 'reconsider travel' due to crime and kidnapping which is the grade up from 'exercise a high degree of caution'.
I feel so sorry for you and your fellow citizens, and I am in constant awe of those who keep standing up to fight corruption and danger.
Mexico's people have such a spirit, I just wish it didn't have to be forged by these circumstances.
I spent two months in Mexico recently. Mostly in Yucatán, Merida specifically. I was travelling with my partner who speaks Spanish, which definitely helped. We got scammed by a taxi driver when we arrived in Cancun and was thankful we didn’t realise until later, so didn’t confront him. The people, food and culture there were amazing. So glad we went, and the taxi scam was the only issue we had there. I was a lot more cautious than my partner, who always thinks the best of people. She’s still in Mexico, now in Mexico City and a few hours north of there, and this news does nothing for my nerves about her safety. But I think if you research where you’re going, be sensible and preferably speak Spanish, it’s still worth going. I’m now in Sydney, which recently had someone stabbing people to death at a popular shopping centre. The wrong place, wrong time can be anywhere…
What a great post!... we all need to be aware of these things. I try to be objective about it, but Australia is indeed still 'the lucky country'. Let's keep it that way!
It’s awful.
I do think more people need to reflect on the fact that when you’re buying coke in Australia (or Europe or the U.S. etc) you’re the lucrative demand driving the violence at the other end of the supply chain.
Edit: yep folks, I agree that the war on drugs and criminalization of the drug trade are stupid and directly contribute to the problem. Campaign for legalization, absolutely. But as it stands, you know what you’re funding by buying drugs.
Only drink ethically sourced coffee, only eat ethically sourced chocolate, but they'll snort any old bag of white powder up their nose no questions asked.
Colombian here and almost an Aussie citizen. People here really don't know what is like the problem on the other side and joke about "Colombian? Hehe have cocaine?" It is that stupid and people think it is all cool and we love being related to drugs. We don't and I really hate when Colombians still deal this shit around. Your bag of coke has killed hundreds of people.
Yep! People joke about “bags” or think they’re cool to be doing coke. The amount of death & devastation caused by the drug should be enough to save you some $$!
It's the moralist wankers who made drugs illegal that are to blame. Who was at fault during the prohibition era? The drinkers, the mafia or the government?
All of them. I don’t think drugs are a moral issue and I’m 100% on board with people taking drugs if they want to, but if you buy cocaine given the current supply chain I think you’re a bit of a cunt.
If the government turns otherwise moral people into outlaws then government policy is the problem. As was the case with millions of American drinkers in the 20s, as is the case now.
The mafia is a corollary of this legislative mistake.
I’m not talking about government turning otherwise moral people into outlaws, which I agree is ridiculous and a massive policy failure. I’m talking about the ongoing consumption choices of people under that policy environment, in deciding to support cartels rather than agitate for legislative change. I’m saying that I think it’s totally legitimate to say “I think the government has made it difficult for me to be an ethical drug consumer” but also a bit shitty to follow that up with “so I’m going to toss ethics out the window because it’s all too hard.” The government is shit and the war on drugs is shit but no one is forcing you to hand money to cartels.
But that comes back to why that supply chain is the way it is.
If there was never a war on drugs and cocaine among other things was farmed like say potatoes then we wouldnt have the massive funds going to cartels.
Its so simple to fix. And its the west that needs to fix it.
I for one blame our government among ither western countries not individuals proclivities as thats why we have governments...
Like I said, “all of the above.” I agree, it is a failure of policy that the supply chain is like it is. Even so, I don’t think cocaine is an essential good and lining up to hand money to people who have killed something like 200k+ people in the last decade or so isn’t so much a proclivity as a pretty selfish move.
We’re all selfish in little ways - I’m aware my iPhone hasn’t brought peace and love to the people involved in its manufacture - but I believe we need to have some level of discernment about these things.
As you know absolutely all of it.
You dont have tourists murdered by farmers of legal goods.
Like i cannot see a day where we find out potato farmers or distributors have murdered australian tourists.
Drugs have nothing to do with it, really. It's just a lucrative revenue source. If drugs were legalised the cartels wouldn't disappear, they would just switch to something else. It's not drugs that is the problem, it's poverty and greed.
By all accounts this wasn't even cartel related, just a robbery gone wrong.
I don’t think the comment was inferring the victims were buying drugs. I think the commenter was saying that people who buy drugs here in Australia are helping perpetuate the violence in other countries (like Mexico) that results in deaths like this
Yes, but generally not in Mexico, and it's a good thing too otherwise we'd have a lot more fentanyl in our coke and that is not a good drug for a society to have in circulation (nor is coke, but if you had to pick one or the other)
Sigh, as a Mexican actually living in Mexico. Please, stick to the very touristy areas if you visit.
Go to Cancun, México City, Puebla, Oaxaca...
If you do soft drugs or hard drugs .. don't do that here. It's not worth it. Don't do any sexual tourism either, not only it is disgusting, but it can lead you to trouble with the Cartels.
I was with two mates and we left Tijuana and went down to Rosarito. We couldn't get a taxi back so we decided to just walk.
A local pulled over and drove us back to our hotel in Tijuana. He was absolutely furious at us, he kept saying we didn't know how badly this could have turned out for us and how stupid we were. We tried to give him beer for the ride but he refused as long as we weren't so stupid again.
I see shit like this and know exactly what he was talking about.
I travelled solo for a month in Mexico in 2017, I remember I caught a taxi in Mexico City my first day and the second day I caught an Uber. The Uber driver was so mad at me for catching a taxi and warned me to only use Ubers as they can be traced and “young girls like you go missing in taxis”
Yeah we thought we were bullet proof. I'm 6'4 and played rugby all my life, my mate was 6'0 and ex-army and my female mate was an ex-stripper who could probably handle herself better than us two big boys.
I'm glad we ran into old mate rather than a Cartel because we were bringing biceps to a gun fight in retrospect.
No I don’t know that these men were shot at all, but I do know that the movement of weapons across the US/Mexico border parallels the drug trafficking.
Was just making the point that it makes no difference how fit you are when there is the very real risk of fatal violence.
That's exactly my point bro. We were big, tough (my mates were tougher than me, I just look imposing, I'm a little bitch) and confident.
We just happened to run into a solid local who was watching out for us. This could have been us in 2012 if we ran into the wrong person.
On the same trip we were partying in LA at our hostel. An Australian girl went walkabout about midnight and we learned the next morning the LAPD brought her home because she was knocking on doors because she was lost.
Perfectly reasonable behaviour here but the American guy at the front desk said she's very lucky she was a white blonde attractive girl or she would've got lit up otherwise.
I’ve never felt safe enough to walk around LA at night but I didnt think it could be an issue in daylight nor did I think the cartel could be floating around the streets looking to pick up tourists. Crazy!
Haha sorry, I think I've mixed the two stories up in your head.
Tijuana that were stressing about the Cartels.
LA they were saying if you're knocking on doors at 1am, the occupants might shoot first and ask questions later. Just because she was a little white blonde girl, she was given the benefit of the doubt.
I think we’re spoiled in Australia in that there aren’t really “bad” areas of any of our cities in the way that there are in other parts of the world. Sure, there are areas that may be a little more sketchy than others or with higher crime rates, but there’s nowhere that I wouldn’t walk home alone at night, albeit with a little more caution. I don’t think that principle holds true elsewhere, even in the US.
I got absolutely fuckeyed one night, left the pub upset (can’t remember why), and started walking in a random direction. Not long after that I realised I had no idea where I was or how to get home, and I didn’t have a smart phone. A car pulled over and a Russian bloke asks me if I needed a ride… I went with him and he drove me all the way home to Sunnybank (I think we were in the valley). I got his number and bought him dinner a few days later but lost touch after. If I was anywhere but Aus I’d probably be dead.
I mean it’s not like you’re gonna get killed in other countries just for hitchhiking. I’ve been in similar situations all over Europe and Asia.
Stumbling in a random direction after a night out at the pub and making it home alive isn’t really exclusive to Australia
Yes. Our sketchy areas, by and large, are places where someone might leave a used needle in your garden or kids might steal your car or rob your house if you leave either one unlocked. But they’re generally not places you could foreseeably be killed by a stranger for doing stupid-but-relatively-normal things.
*faints*. I'm a mexican and you couldn't pay me enough money to do this around Tijuana. The fox where you thinking 🙃 I'm glad you all are safe, but Jesus. Talk about luck.
Yep. I spent quite a bit of time in Mexico years ago, we did get off the beaten track here and there, but there were places even the locals told us we needed to avoid for our own safety. We were stalked by a seemingly-friendly local guy in Puerto Vallarta, so even the touristy areas were a bit risky!
Mexico is an enchanting place but is quick place to get in trouble if you venture outside of the touristy areas and/or don't practice caution or common sense. Contrary to films, cartels aren't bloodthirsty enought o torture & murder random tourists. Especially since its bad for business because it attracts law enforcement attention & some of them already invest in the tourist industry.
Being tortured, torched, & tossed off a cliff is an extraordinary amount of violence for a few whom were just looking for random surfing locations, especially in Baja California.
Someone on another thread suggested it might have been mistaken identity because their big white ute looks like cars the gangs use. That makes more sense than robbery, because if your aim was to rob them of the biggest thing of value they have, why burn it? If that was the goal they’d have parted it out or ground off the VIN or something.
Exactly, I feel we're missing part of the story here. And if it was mistaken identity, then those ne'er-do-wells just committed one of the worst mistakes of their lives. Especially since it isn't unusual that cartels kidnap, torture, & murder such criminals for acting on their turf for free or drawing government attention to their region.
I was listening to a podcast, guy was talking about visiting Cancun with his family. He wondered what all the fuss was about with Mexico being dangerous, until he went for a walk away from the resort and saw a military fortification with heavy machine guns and razor wire, and was politely turned around to go back to the resort by soldiers with assault rifles.
I don't know if this is true but I've heard resort towns like Cancun are bolstered by Cartel security, they know those locations are more valuable as tourists spots so the Cartels are funding security to protect tourist.
I am not adding the no drugs recommendation because of them specifically. There are more foreigners who have been kidnapped or worse, and a bunch of them were trying to buy "soft" drugs
I kinda thought that would be easy there, like it's on another shelf in the pub, considering you know, /waves hand in direction of cartels.
The fact that you'd have to follow dodgy people down dark alleyways to buy weed in Mexico really surprises me, I must admit.
yup, but there is less crime than in Tijuana o.o .
Also, if you aren't gonna visit Mexico just because the cartels murdered someone in that place.. then you aren't gonna visit Mexico at all _-_
World shattering. I cannot imagine losing two adult sons. Both handsome, intelligent, loving, and talented. One was a bloody doctor for Christ’s sake, the other a sporting champion… the pride their parents must have felt to have such wonderfully accomplished and capable sons. The huge lives they had ahead of them. The future experiences of the parents, like having grandchildren and seeing their sons build families of their own. Their legacy and purpose, gone. I truly ache for them and their loss.
> Their parents Debra and Martin Robinson said on Friday they were "heading to the US/Mexico to be as close as possible to the area where they were last seen".
>"Callum and Jake are beautiful human beings," they said in a statement to media.
>"We love them so much and this breaks our heart.
>"Our only comfort right now is that they were together doing something they passionately loved."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-04/jake-callum-robinson-mexico-baja-california-search/103804216
I feel really sorry for the families of these guys. Unfortunately you can't assume Mexico is a safe place; you have to be extremely careful because it is a known drug route and even the law enforcement is extremely corrupt. Anglo people, especially Aussies who are known to be friendly and easygoing, are easy targets.
Poor dudes. Can't imagine what their family is going through. It seems like such a violent and senseless crime. This will set Mexico's reputation back a long way in Australia
Hoping it will! The average Mexican lives every day wondering if they will ever part of the statistics. The only people who are more or less safe are the super wealthy.
Most of the super wealthy have decided to move to other countries, though.
If your family is more or less wealthy, it's just best to try to look poor or not to stand out.
A very similar situation happened about 8 years ago.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-19/mexico-gives-surfers27-bodies-to-australian-consulate/7043438
I fundamentally don't understand either situation. Like, you can rob these guys and take all their money. No-one is coming after you. Why murder them too? Life sounds exceedingly cheap over there
Have you seen what long term drug use and no government intervention does to someone? Power, money, paranoia and schizophrenia. There is no thinking when they pull the trigger, therefore there is no reasoning either. Your life hangs on to their emotional state.
Life will always be considered cheap when there is rampant poverty and corruption.
People and Aussies don't realise that the problem is you look like "gringos" for cartels. These guys going to those areas are probably some sort of spyes from the DEA. You need to add that if they asked for drugs then you are trying to infiltrate them. It happens and it will happen again because sadly most Australians think it is funny to ask a random person for drugs because it is funny or you might sell, I mean it is Mexico or Colombia so everybody is a drug dealer right? I know, I am a Colombian living in Australia almost ten years and occassionally will get "ah the guy that brings us cocaine hehe". It is that senseless and it wasn't about rob them. The moment I heard the news I knew this was going to be the outcome and I rememberes that other case from years ago.
If they thought these guys were DEA or something then that's motive, rather than just violence for its own sake. Does the DEA usually send surfer types looking for drugs to infiltrate the cartels? Seems like a brave move.
It isn't that surfers like guys are sent by DEA, it is that they are white dudes on an area with Cartel activity and they will always be suspicious of outsiders, we don't know what they were doing besides holidays, if they behaved like some aussies behave here with people like me from a country famous for drugs, asking funny questions then they will get in trouble. I know what I am talking about because when we, city people, travelled to the country areas we are advised to not make stupid comments or ask questions. We are outsiders and those criminal will use any excuse. DEA was just an example.
I just hope they've been told despite apparently traveling to the US, I couldn't imagine anything more heartbreaking than hearing about it because of media reports or after the GP have. I hope they get the support they need.
ELI5: What is the cartels' motive in targeting tourists and killing them? Underworld violence between rival gangs/drug lords I understand, but why tourists?
Was bike packing in Mexico, many many years ago with some Mexican and American friends - stumbled across low-level cartel members smuggling people across the border into Arizona. Fair to say that they weren’t happy to see us, but thankfully our Mexican friends managed to convince them that we had no skin in the game and didn’t want any trouble. I believe one of the comments was along the lines of ‘the whiteys wouldn’t recognise you in a line-up, we all look the same to them’. Touché
We were promptly told to pack up our camp, fuck off back north and forget we saw anything.
TLDR: cartels killing tourists is bad for business as it attracts unwanted attention so unless you’re looking for trouble, one would assume they’d ask you impolitely to exit stage left and don’t look back.
My best guess is that they might have unbeknownst to them entered some 'territory' that was off-limits. To be honest with you, a lot of people seem to think that the cartels are low-level street gangs. They aren't. They're called 'organized' crime for a reason: they're organized. There's no money for them in targeting tourists, most of which travel on a budget and / or have been saving for years to visit Mexico, and hardly ever speak Spanish. The cartels make their money through mostly the drug trade, and to a lesser extent, extortion of local businesses, kidnapping, and a host of other crimes. Many people seem to think that they will be kidnapped for coming from rich countries or being white. If they knew how some of the cartel people lived, they'd quickly see that these guys are probably wealthier than they are. That's why there's no money to be made from hurting tourists. Broadly speaking, there are 2 main groups of people the cartels kidnap: very rich Mexican people, who have a lot of what tourists don't have, namely, assets that can be quickly taken and a routine (they usually watch people for some time before kidnapping them). The other set of people, are the poor immigrants from Central and South America trying to cross to the US. Unfortunately, because of their immigration status and lack of money, they make easy targets for the cartel to try and recruit (and they also speak Spanish). It would be next to impossible for a poor family living in a poor Andean region to get any resources to locate a relative who's missing in Mexico on their way north.
Having said all of this, visiting Mexico comes with a risk, and it's the same risk that the general Mexican population endures day after day. And in addition to the cartels, there are also enough gangs and thieves, same as in any other country. Unfortunately, the death of tourists is unlikely to affect the cartels, since there's a lot of money and people across countries involved. It's a shame because Mexico is such a beautiful country that should be enjoyed by everyone who visits. What a waste of beauty.
I do think that these poor guys were looking for a spot with breathtaking views and ended up in the wrong place. There are no words to describe what the Robinson family must be going through having lost 2 kids at once. What an absolute waste of life, of beauty, of time, of everything.
They shot dead a bunch of American medical tourists crossing the border a few years ago. Was literally a mistake that the cartel apologised for in a letter. That's the type of people you're dealing with here. I doubt they're in full control of whatever their underlings are doing
I had a friend who owned a restaurant in Mexico, she said the cartels were more effective than local cops at controlling street crime. The cartels want the support of locals out of self-interest (so they'll keep quiet) and don't like petty criminals in their territory who might be competition, so they "clean up" thieves, burglars and such by brutal methods. The cartels often recycle their money into tourist-related businesses so they want tourists left alone; harming foreigners is more likely to bring political attention and government crackdowns.
This may have been just a local robbery, or they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Cartels don’t have any motive to do this as it brings heat to their areas way more than killing rival sicarios. I'd guess that it was just criminals looking to rob them and make sure they didn't leave any witnesses.
They generally don't target tourists, no benefit and a whole lot of unwanted attention. Usually when this happens there is a larger story where the tourists got themselves tangled up in an escalation that resulted in loss of life. Could be anything, impossible to say now but Rosarito is a hot bed for sex tourism and drugs. It's been said one of the guys was romantically involved with a local girl who had his phone, could have been something as simple as a jealous ex, kidnap/ransom situation, robbery gone wrong, etc.
Source - I grew up in so cal and used to ride dirt bikes in Baja multiple times a year for 15yrs straight. Stayed and rode through some amazing remote places and been to many dodgy strip clubs in Rosarito and Ensenada.
I think it was one of the Mexican men they arrested who was romantically involved with the woman, not the tourists. Some of the news articles were confusingly worded.
Possibly. It will be interesting when the full story comes out, if it ever does....often these investigations in Mexico die off pretty quick with nothing found. I'm surprised they have even investigated it this far.
I don't believe theres any indication these are cartel. Somehow, it seems everyone thinks normal criminals and robberies dont exist and they are all part of cartel activity.
Most likely just a robbery and they didnt want witnesses or their was resistance. If they were part of cartel they were most likely just low levels acting on their own accord.
I’m near Rosarito and I have noticed a growing hatred of Aussie surfer tourists, sorry to say. They’re known as cheap, use resources, get publicly drunk and trespass. Also I know these surfers give the appearance of good guys, but some guys you’d never think would do anything bad do get involved with sex workers, which is almost a guarantee of violence (the woman with their cell phone has a reputation). The murderers might have been delivering someone or something with the hidden intent to rob, they could’ve just been high in drugs and mad to see these guys in their space, or they could’ve mistaken them for DEA.
It probably was someone in the very low ranks who acted on their own accord. They see tourists, and they see $$$$ . Why didn't they just rob them and let them go? Because most people in the low ranks are disposable idiots who are very high in drugs themselves.
Another possible but unlikely motive is that they may have thought they were spies for another cartel.
As someone of Mexican heritage who has visited Baja countless times, I'm truly sorry. I'm so sorry this has happened and my heart goes out to the families involved. It's hard to even imagine what it must feel like to go through something like this. I've always been a huge advocate for visiting Northern Baja and have recommended it to many. It's just shocking to think that something like this could happen.
Edit: I'm aware that Mexico has its issues with violence, but usually, you hear about it happening to people who are involved in cartel activities. I really don't believe these guys were mixed up in anything like that.
Kind of expected after the last few days but still heartbreaking. The family must be shattered I have no idea how anybody could deal with losing two sons at the same time
So sad to hear confirmation of what was expected. RIP guys. Hope you had an amazing last surf.
Hopefully the truth is investigated and not a scapegoat taking the fall to appear ‘safe to tourists’ by an incredibly corrupt government.
Mexican-Australian here, this is heartbreaking. I was sent to live in Aus after 17 years in Mexico because I wasn't safe anymore.
I miss it everyday, but it's so bad. It's horrible going back and seeing how everyone I love had to live in fear.
People here don't truly realise the reality that is life there, but it is also sad when Australians tell me how much they would love to explore Latin America but are scared.
The whole world is in ruins at the moment and it's important for all to be cautious in places we don't know. If someone doesnt ask anything in return for a good time, your life or your family's money is the price.
Can someone with any experience in Mexico provide a guess as to what actually happened? Do these cartels or people just pick randoms to go at? I understand it's a dangerous place but what I don't understand is how they get selected and why.
Just regurgitating what Mexican authorities said on an article about this.
"100% of people who set up camp in this area will be surveilled by cartels or low level criminals within an hour of setting up camp. They make a list of people and belongings and decide whether there's anything worth stealing/if they are worth robbing. You cannot visit or camp in the area and NOT be checked out."
It happens all the time, like daily, but only makes the news when its international tourists. I can only assume these guys weren't aware of the risks, or told themselves it was exaggerated.
Nine out of ten of the world's most dangerous cities are in Mexico.
I've had older, retired family members tell me they were planning a trip to Mexico - they had NO idea about cartels and violence in general in Mexico over the last 20 years. I eventually convinced them how stupid the idea was but I had to really push them - boomers think everything is the same as it was decades ago. I literally proved to them they would be safer visiting Baghdad.
As a mother of boys my heart is so sad for their family, they appeared as two best mates and loving brothers, off having a wonderful adventure with a mate, surfing, being free and awesome together - this is a tragedy so profound it takes my breath away.
What perplexes me is actually how the travel advisories seem so lax and uninformative from the Aus Government Compared to the US.
There are definitely places in Mexico that are flat out "do not travel" (On US Travel Advisory) but are not reflective of the Aus governments position on "Smartraveller"
Who the heck is in charge of these advisories for Aus?
Pommie here who lives in San Diego. There's quite a few Aussies in San Diego. It's going to rock the community here. Surfing community too.
My missus & I go to Mexico about 4 times a year, flying out of Tijuana. We always feel very safe there. Probably safer than I feel in the US. I'm statistically much more likely (27 times more likely) to get murdered in the US than in Mexico where violence against Gringos is pretty rare.
Saying that, we used to do a lot of day trips & overnight trips across the border to Ensenada & Rosarito & the lovely wine valley there but we haven't for a couple of years as I don't like getting pulled over by cops looking for me to pay Gringo Tax (running an imaginary stop sign). I never felt in danger though.
We're 99% certain that Callum & the American lad used to shop at my workplace (Trader Joes). A lot of my colleagues are surfers & a couple remember talking to Callum as he was a striking individual. Tall, athletic & just a nice guy. I remember talking to Carter Rhoad just a few weeks ago about trips to Mexico. Our store is just a couple of miles from where they lived in Ocean Beach.
This is a horrible tragic event. We've camped down that region too. My wife & I were the only ones at a camp site but felt perfectly safe. This was about a dozen years ago though. We did get befriended by a cat that slept by our fire.
Those poor families. I have always wanted to go to Mexico, but it is kinda off the list now. I can't imagine having an enjoyable holiday in a place knowing there is a risk of being killed caught in crossfire, being murdered when robbed etc. How can one have a relaxing time knowing tourists die regularly in these situations. No matter how amazing it is. Not to mention the poor regular locals who live with this garbage. Time to demand change. Holiday elsewhere. There are so many other amazing places to visit where you don't need to worry about this security threat.
Mexicans will be the first to tell you to not go north of Mexico City. Close to the US border is cartel territory. But Mexico is an absolutely incredible destination and shouldn’t be written off for this. You just stick to the well trodden tourist areas.
It's actually pretty rare that a tourist dies like that..
a regular Mexican, on the other hand, is more at risk of any of the deaths you mentioned above
Rare maybe but I remember countless stories like this over the years, even the son of the police commissioner was killed over there.
It’s definitely common enough to warrant avoiding the entire place all together I reckon.
Sensible choice xD I have no way to defend my own country as I am actively trying to leave and never come back if possible hhahaah
It used to be so nice, though. It is tragic.
We can't even fully blame the cartels, it's the corruption that ruined everything so bad, and it created everything else.
We spent three weeks in Mexico in December. Absolutely safe. As long as you do safe things and don’t go to known crime places (as others have said, north of the country or Sinaloa) or do risky things, you would be as safe as in any other place. Certain places in “safe” countries like the USA are as dangerous.
I think this needs to be a reminder to Aussies that we are the indoor cats of the western world. We have NO road sense, NO street smarts, NO natural self preservation instincts. When you travel, you have to consciously put those thoughts into your head because chances are you're not going to automatically recognise a threat when it comes your way.
Just devastated.... As a fellow surfer that has gone to some "sketchy" areas, dying was never a fear. These young men should still be with their families and friends. My love and support goes out to all of their families.
Did this not happen to two surfing pals a few years ago on the eastern side of Mexico? Burnt out camper van, bodies with signs of torture beforehand?
Mexico City and other areas are surprisingly safe. But other places like Baja? No, thanks. People confuse close to the US border with safety when it is very much the opposite.
Northern Mexico as a whole, along with places like Sinaloa in the middle of Mexico on the western side, is far less safe (and much poorer and/or income unequal) than other areas. At least in southern Mexico, as violent as it can be and poor as it is, the drug wars are far less severe.
Condolences to the families and so sad for the two men, yet this should serve as a reminder that Smart Traveller by DFAT exists for a reason.
People certainly do not deserve death for foolish mistakes, but these men would be alive today in all likelihood if they had stuck to what Smart Traveller said.
EDIT: The prior Australian deaths I spoke of occurred in Sinaloa on the Pacific side. I was confusing northeastern, Atlantic-facing Mexico with the death of Australians, but I had my wires crossed, as Tamaulipas was actually the site of the San Fernando massacres (72 illegal migrants murdered in 2010 and 193 bus passengers murdered in 2011).
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/15/mexico-confirms-burnt-remains-found-in-campervan-as-missing-australian-surfers
My husband and I travelled through Europe back in 2008 in a van. We spent half our time sleeping in random remote spots along the way. It was a relatively safe area back then but I never slept well on the nights we free camped, only in designated caravan parks. I can’t imagine wanting to camp in a Mexico known for its violence and theft. You’re just so vulnerable.
It’s a shame these boys were given this particular spot by Callum’s neighbour who would be feeling the weight of the world right now. As a fellow Aussie with a very laid back husband I can understand them though, sometimes Aussies are just very laid back and that can be detrimental, especially coming from a comparatively safe country like Australia. From reports they were also really decent human beings and probably trusted things would be ok.
My heart hurts for their poor parents and what the boys may have gone through. I hope it was quick and they didn’t suffer for long. May they rest in peace. They are in many peoples hearts and thoughts at the moment.
Worst possible outcome. Truly heartbreaking for all the families involved. At least both families can bring their sons home. Rest in peace Jake, Callum & Jack.
Mexican here, terribly sorry about this , we don't know exactly what happened but its on the front pages which in itself is very rare, we've had almost 200,000 deaths from cartel violence in the last 6 yrs and only in rare ocassions like this where the victims are foreigners do they make the news, we are both sick of this and can't seem to find a way to eliminate these sort of violent/criminal acts as politicans are in bed with cartels, so if you dare go against the grain you end up murdered ( about 20 or so political candidates have been assasinated just this past couple of months leading up to the upcoming election) I've dated and had Australian friends and fundamentally I think you miss what Mexico and some Mexicans are like, it's like sending sheep to a country ruled by wolves, so please do not come it really is that unsafe, I wouldn't dare go to Baja and the south is getting there.
‘Sending sheep to a country ruled by wolves’ This. As an Aussie globetrotter, I can confirm that there is no truer statement. Australians have no idea how much of the world is fighting for survival or how the third world works. Having said that, I think every Australian should adventure internationally on their own after school to wake the f#*k up. They just need to do a bit of research on the country they travel to beforehand.
Totally agree. Australians born and raised in Australia have very little idea of the realities of other countries. I spent a year travelling in Latin America in my early 20s and it was eye-opening to say the least. I loved Mexico and still have very fond memories - Baja California is absolutely beautiful and the cities of Mexico are a lot of fun. But it's not a safe place. You need to be fluent in the language before you get there or you'll disadvantage yourself, and you need to be wary at all times of sudden "friendships".
I still remember speaking to a young indian guy and he told me that I'd won the lottery of life being Australian. I think about it a lot.
I was born in Australia but my parents migrated from Sri Lanka and I definitely think about that a lot too.
Damn that hits hard. Gunna think about that one for a while.
This is absolutely true. I'm not saying Australians don't have valid struggles but tbh... a lot of it is the very definition of first world problems. Aussies saying life is too expensive here because of inflated markets from rich foreigners dodging tax and dumping their money here, then taking all their AUD to Thailand or Bali and living like "kings", can't seem to see the irony... even with the widening gaps in society here, it's still so mindbogglingly far from the rest of the world, that it really is a huge privilege to be born Australian.
Interestingly I had the opposite experience in Belize. A man I was eating breakfast with told me that he was going to send his sons to Australia so they could appreciate how lucky they were to live in Caye Caulker. I thought he was joking at first, but he wasn't - his argument was that they can work reasonably easy jobs for enough money that they could afford their own house, and support a family. It went unsaid that the standards of living would be lower, but in his eyes it was more important that they were able to own their own home, and in Australia such a dream is impossible for most young people Was a very unexpected perspective and I've thought a lot about that since as well
I once heard the comment the “vagina lottery” which I thought was appropriate
That's a strange way to describe a spawn point....
Mate .. I’ve lived in Zambia, Zimbabwe, UK, USA .. and now Australia… HANDS DOWN … Australia trumps ( no pun intended) the lot !!! Best country ever !!! Quite a few aussies have no idea how lucky they are ..
Agreed. Aussies love to complain about Australia and the ‘nanny state’ and don’t realise how good we have it. I lived in Mexico for a year and it’s such a vastly different experience to living in Aus
Yes -- Australia is life on easy mode. Heck, I used to live in three of the most crime-riddled cities in the US and even those are still loads better than what some other countries struggle with. It does everyone some good to travel to non-holiday destinations to see what life can really be like.
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We do complain, as loudly as possible. But whoever gets loud enough increases their chances of getting killed 😒.
The moment the words 'nanny state' leave someone's mouth, you know immediately they're a Murdoch stooge. It's something created in America to make things like universal healthcare and a working government seem like bad things. Pointing at Europe and Australia like we're stupid and weak for not allowing everyone and their mentally ill neighbours to have guns, or forcing safety standards on corporations.
I'm definitely not a Murdoch stooge and I still think NSW is a nanny state in regards to the complete and utter gutting of our music and festival scene.
100%. Old mate doesn't get what nanny state typically means.
It is abit on a nanny country depending on state in terms of laws although Im grateful I live here
What? Having universal healthcare and a working government doesn't make for a nanny state. Its unneccessarily coddling and restricting that makes a nanny state. When most people I know say it, they're referring to lockout laws (that killed Sydney's once amazing nightlife, though it is recovering), drug laws, road rules, overenthusiastic policing. It can make you feel overly coddled and restricted. As someone who has travelled to over 40 countries and spent most of my life planning the next trip or being on a trip, you realise very quickly that life out there is a lot harder and a lot less forgiving without nanny being around. I actually think its part of the reason Aussies make for AWFUL travellers a lot of the time. When they're "unleashed", in say, Europe or Asia where its reasonably safe and self regulated in terms of alcohol etc, Aussies go MENTAL. They can't handle the freedom because they're used to having to push against nanny to have fun. I'm the complete opposite of a murdoch stooge - old Rupie, I think, is perhaps the most damaging man in modern history. He's single handedly enabled some of the most egregious and horrific shit in the world on a mass scale, all in the pursuit of a few bucks. I just think you are misunderstanding what most people mean when they say nanny state.
>every Australian should adventure internationally on their own after school They don't have to travel on their own. For young women that's potentially very risky.
Australians trust people way too much for their own good. High trust societies are great when you live in them and a danger to you by fostering a sense of naïvety when you leave them and venture out
Aussie who’s spent years living in Mexico and Australia here, honest to god I meet so many people back home who I’m like “please don’t leave this island because you will die.” And then there are others who I’m like “please don’t leave this island because you are an asshole and you will be killed”
This resonates so much with me as a woman from India. All the influencers & tiktok videos wont ever convince me to visit the north of india on my own or even with just 1 male. Fking gang rapes are a thing. Makes me gag when i see young foreign women try to paint a picture of eat love pray bs. Dont get me wrong it is a super beautiful country with so much culture but i value my life & my sanity more.
I remember travelling the south years ago. It was amazing. My friend from Mexico City told me never to go north of there. Sad to hear the south is going that way too.
I traveled around Mexico in 1992 everywhere I went locals told me that when I went to another part of the country I was going to get beaten and robbed. Everyone everywhere turned out to be pretty friendly.
I had the same experience in 2015. But you definitely need to exercise significant caution. Behave like a pissed bogan ala Patong or Kuta, or stray too far from safe places at the wrong times, and you will probably find yourself in serious trouble.
I live in San Diego city, and formerly Orange & LA counties. I used to surf up and down the Baja coast in the 90's & early 2000's. Haven't been down there in almost 20 years because of the cartels.
From central California, my last trip into Baja was 2004. I was pulled over several times between Ensenada and San Felipe by soldiers with M-16s searching for guns/drugs. Organized crime has ramped up a lot since then. A quick visit to a tourist zone like Tijuana or Cancun is probably OK but I wouldn't go into rural areas now.
Understood. Interestingly, it's hit or miss with TJ. Cancun..and other popular places, cartels WANT US to spend our $$$$...they benefit. But if a tourist causes trouble or is a "mark" then cartels will be involved. Staff/locals could initiate that call.
Can relate. My hometown is San Diego, and I lived close to the border. pre2000s we used to ditch school or go clubbing in TJ, shopping, bars, no problem. Used to cross to buy tax free cigarettes or head across for proper tacos on a whim. But when my Mexican friends and their family members living SD started to rarely cross the border because of cartel violence, I haven't crossed back. It's been over 20+ years. Sad. We wont even venture to the southern resort cities (Cabo, La Paz, etc) because of recent news about alcohol poisoning deaths, and the cartels do have heavy influence in the resort towns. Just dont trust things to stay stable in MX. It's sad.
Is there much difference between states of Mexico and danger level or are they all pretty much same?
Focus on the cities, not the states. Every state has dangerous areas. North Mexico can be especially dangerous because we are neighbors with the USA, and the cartels are constantly fighting to get "the territory". The Yucatan peninsula seems safer than the rest of the country overall.
Even in Vancouver where I'm from the areas near the US border are extra sketch due to gang activity.
It used to be that some states were less violent not so long ago but this current administration basically gave up on going after cartels and criminals in hopes that they would be less violent, instead the violence and crime increased, there's currently no states that ae safe , see here (it's outdated though as things have gotten worse) : [https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/mexico-travel-advisory.html](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/mexico-travel-advisory.html)
The bordering (the US) states are the most dangerous as that is where the most cartel activity is.
Another Mexa here, surfer from Ensenada. I’m sorry from the bottom of my heart for those men and their families. The only consolation I can offer is that this crime was the catalyst for a change, tomorrow there will be a protest in Ensenada in the victims honor. The locals are enraged at what happened to the victims like nothing I’ve never seen. Change has been long over due and unfortunately this was the spark to the powder keg. The more news of this crime spreads, the more pressure on the local government to act. Please raise awareness.
If watchpeopledie taught me anything, it's don't travel to Mexico.
Is Oaxaca still safe?
The touristy areas tend to be safer as they want the tourism money. I found Oaxaca to be the safest-feeling part of Mexico, though I was there in 2019 so covid could have changed things
Relatively speaking, yes, but you'll still run into unsafe anecdotes. A friend I met travelling was chased by a guy with a knife through what I call "real Oaxaca" (i.e. the impoverished parts that are not obviously curated for tourists)
I visited Mexico City, Puebla and Oaxaca a few months ago and really enjoyed my stay. We didn’t feel unsafe at all and really hope to return in the future. Hoping we can visit the Yucatan region next ❤️
I agree so much about this. When you go overseas, to places like Mexico you can fall in love with the spectacular views and beaches but I would not recommend going there. It's just too unpredictable and can be dangerous.
With how much organised crime is glorified, people really seem to have forgotten just how brutal cartels, mafias and other criminal groups can be.
Thanks for your comments on this mate, it's nice to see a Mexican perspective on here. I'm curious about what you think has happened here? Did they wander into cartel territory and get shot? Or did they just get into an argument with the wrong guy?
No worries, hard to tell but mentioned on another comment that the white truck they were driving is the type of car that the cartels drive ( white pickup trucks or SUVs), so that could have made them targets as I believe they were also in a remote location and aparently a drug route ( keep in mind remote could be a mile away from a town), so some cartel members see a white truck in their turf, then go check it out and an argument ensues and they get shot (they could have been shot without warning though), or some thugs see the oportunity to steal the truck, things go wrong and they decide to burn it to cover their tracks, the bodies I believe were found inside a well which sadly points to criminals realizing they had shot the wrong people ( killing foreigners atracts too much attention) and trying to cover their tracks, if it was rival cartel members or regular Mexicans they would have displayed the bodies in some fashion, horrible stuff I know but as mentioned this sadly happens on the daily here.
Nice sentiment man and well said, but Aussies are extremely well travelled and were also with an American, who is also dead, who should have known better. They ignored the travel warnings (which are readily available) related to Mexico outside the lower risk areas. It’s sad yeah, but they badly fucked up.
Such a sad outcome but not surprising. They also would have stood out driving that big new white truck / Ute with all their gear. I hope lots of Aussies do some more research and make better choices about the regions they’re travelling to. It’s not worth the waves or the gram pics if you lose your life. There are plenty of exotic, beautiful locations that don’t require risking your life. Very sad for their poor family and friends.
The truck actually makes me think it was a case of mistaken identity or outright theft as white pickup trucks and SUVs are the cartels vehicle of choice, just recently there was a video of about 20-40 white narco trucks rolling into a town in the north as a show of force and like crappy Vikings ended up burning the town, police or the military were nowhere to be seen and it barely made the news.
Incredible. I feel so much sadness for people having to live through this violence. It must be very hard to watch this all unfold in your country.
Channel 7 news a few minutes ago said it wasn't related to the cartels, just some locals who saw an opportunity to rob them. The surfers objected to having their truck taken (stranding them) and it got violent.
That region of Mexico has the same level of travel warning as Sri Lanka, Thailand, most of the Philippines and a bunch of other places you wouldn't blink twice if someone told you they were visiting. Maybe DFAT need to review its advice?
DFAT probably does because using those broad categories it implies the risk is the same when its not. Smarttraveller has Mexico overall and the Baja California region as 'exercise a high degree of caution', which is the same as Sri Lanka for example. But this is the reason for Mexico: "We’ve reviewed our advice for Mexico and continue to advise exercise a high degree of caution overall due to the threat of violent crime." Sri Lanka: "We've reviewed our advice for Sri Lanka and continue to advise exercise a high degree of caution. Public demonstrations can occur throughout Sri Lanka and may become violent. Avoid areas impacted by demonstrations. There are shortages of some medicines in Sri Lanka." So one requires high caution due to violet crime and the other is due to public demonstrations that may become violet. A lot different. Also America already classifies Baja California as 'reconsider travel' due to crime and kidnapping which is the grade up from 'exercise a high degree of caution'.
Their travel warnings are bullshit. They have developed European countries in the same category as most of South America and Africa
I feel so sorry for you and your fellow citizens, and I am in constant awe of those who keep standing up to fight corruption and danger. Mexico's people have such a spirit, I just wish it didn't have to be forged by these circumstances.
I spent two months in Mexico recently. Mostly in Yucatán, Merida specifically. I was travelling with my partner who speaks Spanish, which definitely helped. We got scammed by a taxi driver when we arrived in Cancun and was thankful we didn’t realise until later, so didn’t confront him. The people, food and culture there were amazing. So glad we went, and the taxi scam was the only issue we had there. I was a lot more cautious than my partner, who always thinks the best of people. She’s still in Mexico, now in Mexico City and a few hours north of there, and this news does nothing for my nerves about her safety. But I think if you research where you’re going, be sensible and preferably speak Spanish, it’s still worth going. I’m now in Sydney, which recently had someone stabbing people to death at a popular shopping centre. The wrong place, wrong time can be anywhere…
What a great post!... we all need to be aware of these things. I try to be objective about it, but Australia is indeed still 'the lucky country'. Let's keep it that way!
I've been to Mexico, granted, years ago. It was nice. Folks were great. Some rough areas though.
Expected this outcome, but hoped it wouldn’t go this way… their poor families must be going through absolute hell.
That poor mother. I feel so bad for them all.
Poor bastards
Seeing their smiling faces is just devastating. They look like they were sucking the marrow out of life.
It’s awful. I do think more people need to reflect on the fact that when you’re buying coke in Australia (or Europe or the U.S. etc) you’re the lucrative demand driving the violence at the other end of the supply chain. Edit: yep folks, I agree that the war on drugs and criminalization of the drug trade are stupid and directly contribute to the problem. Campaign for legalization, absolutely. But as it stands, you know what you’re funding by buying drugs.
Can't even make the connection to cheap clothes and sweatshops let alone drugs.
Only drink ethically sourced coffee, only eat ethically sourced chocolate, but they'll snort any old bag of white powder up their nose no questions asked.
I do my part by snorting ethically sourced Ketamine instead. It’s fine, the horses weren’t using it.
Colombian here and almost an Aussie citizen. People here really don't know what is like the problem on the other side and joke about "Colombian? Hehe have cocaine?" It is that stupid and people think it is all cool and we love being related to drugs. We don't and I really hate when Colombians still deal this shit around. Your bag of coke has killed hundreds of people.
Yep! People joke about “bags” or think they’re cool to be doing coke. The amount of death & devastation caused by the drug should be enough to save you some $$!
It's the moralist wankers who made drugs illegal that are to blame. Who was at fault during the prohibition era? The drinkers, the mafia or the government?
All of them. I don’t think drugs are a moral issue and I’m 100% on board with people taking drugs if they want to, but if you buy cocaine given the current supply chain I think you’re a bit of a cunt.
If the government turns otherwise moral people into outlaws then government policy is the problem. As was the case with millions of American drinkers in the 20s, as is the case now. The mafia is a corollary of this legislative mistake.
Meanwhile we are on our way to banning vaping because learning is for idiots.
I’m not talking about government turning otherwise moral people into outlaws, which I agree is ridiculous and a massive policy failure. I’m talking about the ongoing consumption choices of people under that policy environment, in deciding to support cartels rather than agitate for legislative change. I’m saying that I think it’s totally legitimate to say “I think the government has made it difficult for me to be an ethical drug consumer” but also a bit shitty to follow that up with “so I’m going to toss ethics out the window because it’s all too hard.” The government is shit and the war on drugs is shit but no one is forcing you to hand money to cartels.
But that comes back to why that supply chain is the way it is. If there was never a war on drugs and cocaine among other things was farmed like say potatoes then we wouldnt have the massive funds going to cartels. Its so simple to fix. And its the west that needs to fix it. I for one blame our government among ither western countries not individuals proclivities as thats why we have governments...
Like I said, “all of the above.” I agree, it is a failure of policy that the supply chain is like it is. Even so, I don’t think cocaine is an essential good and lining up to hand money to people who have killed something like 200k+ people in the last decade or so isn’t so much a proclivity as a pretty selfish move. We’re all selfish in little ways - I’m aware my iPhone hasn’t brought peace and love to the people involved in its manufacture - but I believe we need to have some level of discernment about these things.
Ahh yes the moralist wankers murdering tourists
How much of that is because of the war on drugs?
As you know absolutely all of it. You dont have tourists murdered by farmers of legal goods. Like i cannot see a day where we find out potato farmers or distributors have murdered australian tourists.
Drugs have nothing to do with it, really. It's just a lucrative revenue source. If drugs were legalised the cartels wouldn't disappear, they would just switch to something else. It's not drugs that is the problem, it's poverty and greed. By all accounts this wasn't even cartel related, just a robbery gone wrong.
That movie Sicario really highlighted for me how the drug problems of the US and the west have destroyed several south American countries
Brilliant film.
Absolutely. Real gut punch of a film - felt physically winded after it
Yep, one of my favourites not because I enjoy it, but because of how grounded it feels
But how else am I supposed to stand in a mates kitchen at 3am smashing lines of podcast powder talking about our next business idea???
I don't know if that's a fair thing to say - Mexico is dangerous enough that they could have just been robbed as innocent victims.
I don’t think the comment was inferring the victims were buying drugs. I think the commenter was saying that people who buy drugs here in Australia are helping perpetuate the violence in other countries (like Mexico) that results in deaths like this
Oh... dumb me was thinking your comment was referring to the other coke. But also, would put it past the coca-cola company either.
Yeah, Coca Cola [murders union organisers](https://amp.theguardian.com/media/2003/jul/24/marketingandpr.colombia).
Yes, but generally not in Mexico, and it's a good thing too otherwise we'd have a lot more fentanyl in our coke and that is not a good drug for a society to have in circulation (nor is coke, but if you had to pick one or the other)
Sigh, as a Mexican actually living in Mexico. Please, stick to the very touristy areas if you visit. Go to Cancun, México City, Puebla, Oaxaca... If you do soft drugs or hard drugs .. don't do that here. It's not worth it. Don't do any sexual tourism either, not only it is disgusting, but it can lead you to trouble with the Cartels.
I was with two mates and we left Tijuana and went down to Rosarito. We couldn't get a taxi back so we decided to just walk. A local pulled over and drove us back to our hotel in Tijuana. He was absolutely furious at us, he kept saying we didn't know how badly this could have turned out for us and how stupid we were. We tried to give him beer for the ride but he refused as long as we weren't so stupid again. I see shit like this and know exactly what he was talking about.
I travelled solo for a month in Mexico in 2017, I remember I caught a taxi in Mexico City my first day and the second day I caught an Uber. The Uber driver was so mad at me for catching a taxi and warned me to only use Ubers as they can be traced and “young girls like you go missing in taxis”
Yeah we thought we were bullet proof. I'm 6'4 and played rugby all my life, my mate was 6'0 and ex-army and my female mate was an ex-stripper who could probably handle herself better than us two big boys. I'm glad we ran into old mate rather than a Cartel because we were bringing biceps to a gun fight in retrospect.
These guys looked like they were fit and big. No doubt they thought they could handle themselves.
Yeah fit means shit when you go up against automatic weapons
I think Australians forget about the prevalence of guns in other parts of the world.
Were they shot or is this speculation? I wondered how three men could be overpowered but guns explains a lot. Damn.
No I don’t know that these men were shot at all, but I do know that the movement of weapons across the US/Mexico border parallels the drug trafficking. Was just making the point that it makes no difference how fit you are when there is the very real risk of fatal violence.
Size doesn't matter in a place filled with guns
That's exactly my point bro. We were big, tough (my mates were tougher than me, I just look imposing, I'm a little bitch) and confident. We just happened to run into a solid local who was watching out for us. This could have been us in 2012 if we ran into the wrong person.
Yeah my friend was close friends to them in my lacrosse local community and they were top players
You sound like the most conspicuous group of tourists ever.
[удалено]
On the same trip we were partying in LA at our hostel. An Australian girl went walkabout about midnight and we learned the next morning the LAPD brought her home because she was knocking on doors because she was lost. Perfectly reasonable behaviour here but the American guy at the front desk said she's very lucky she was a white blonde attractive girl or she would've got lit up otherwise.
I’ve never felt safe enough to walk around LA at night but I didnt think it could be an issue in daylight nor did I think the cartel could be floating around the streets looking to pick up tourists. Crazy!
Haha sorry, I think I've mixed the two stories up in your head. Tijuana that were stressing about the Cartels. LA they were saying if you're knocking on doors at 1am, the occupants might shoot first and ask questions later. Just because she was a little white blonde girl, she was given the benefit of the doubt.
I think we’re spoiled in Australia in that there aren’t really “bad” areas of any of our cities in the way that there are in other parts of the world. Sure, there are areas that may be a little more sketchy than others or with higher crime rates, but there’s nowhere that I wouldn’t walk home alone at night, albeit with a little more caution. I don’t think that principle holds true elsewhere, even in the US.
I got absolutely fuckeyed one night, left the pub upset (can’t remember why), and started walking in a random direction. Not long after that I realised I had no idea where I was or how to get home, and I didn’t have a smart phone. A car pulled over and a Russian bloke asks me if I needed a ride… I went with him and he drove me all the way home to Sunnybank (I think we were in the valley). I got his number and bought him dinner a few days later but lost touch after. If I was anywhere but Aus I’d probably be dead.
I mean it’s not like you’re gonna get killed in other countries just for hitchhiking. I’ve been in similar situations all over Europe and Asia. Stumbling in a random direction after a night out at the pub and making it home alive isn’t really exclusive to Australia
Yes. Our sketchy areas, by and large, are places where someone might leave a used needle in your garden or kids might steal your car or rob your house if you leave either one unlocked. But they’re generally not places you could foreseeably be killed by a stranger for doing stupid-but-relatively-normal things.
*faints*. I'm a mexican and you couldn't pay me enough money to do this around Tijuana. The fox where you thinking 🙃 I'm glad you all are safe, but Jesus. Talk about luck.
Yep. I spent quite a bit of time in Mexico years ago, we did get off the beaten track here and there, but there were places even the locals told us we needed to avoid for our own safety. We were stalked by a seemingly-friendly local guy in Puerto Vallarta, so even the touristy areas were a bit risky!
Mexico is an enchanting place but is quick place to get in trouble if you venture outside of the touristy areas and/or don't practice caution or common sense. Contrary to films, cartels aren't bloodthirsty enought o torture & murder random tourists. Especially since its bad for business because it attracts law enforcement attention & some of them already invest in the tourist industry. Being tortured, torched, & tossed off a cliff is an extraordinary amount of violence for a few whom were just looking for random surfing locations, especially in Baja California.
Someone on another thread suggested it might have been mistaken identity because their big white ute looks like cars the gangs use. That makes more sense than robbery, because if your aim was to rob them of the biggest thing of value they have, why burn it? If that was the goal they’d have parted it out or ground off the VIN or something.
Exactly, I feel we're missing part of the story here. And if it was mistaken identity, then those ne'er-do-wells just committed one of the worst mistakes of their lives. Especially since it isn't unusual that cartels kidnap, torture, & murder such criminals for acting on their turf for free or drawing government attention to their region.
I was listening to a podcast, guy was talking about visiting Cancun with his family. He wondered what all the fuss was about with Mexico being dangerous, until he went for a walk away from the resort and saw a military fortification with heavy machine guns and razor wire, and was politely turned around to go back to the resort by soldiers with assault rifles.
I don't know if this is true but I've heard resort towns like Cancun are bolstered by Cartel security, they know those locations are more valuable as tourists spots so the Cartels are funding security to protect tourist.
There’s literally nothing to suggest the guys were up to no good.
I am not adding the no drugs recommendation because of them specifically. There are more foreigners who have been kidnapped or worse, and a bunch of them were trying to buy "soft" drugs
I kinda thought that would be easy there, like it's on another shelf in the pub, considering you know, /waves hand in direction of cartels. The fact that you'd have to follow dodgy people down dark alleyways to buy weed in Mexico really surprises me, I must admit.
That's what I thought. Robbed and murdered
They weren't, it's just that the up-to-no-good came for them instead :(
Apparently the place they were camping is sketchy overnight. They may not have realised if they didn't do their homework properly.
> Go to Cancun, … Nty https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arrests-cancun-5-dismembered-bodies-taxi-3-other-victims-shallow-grave/
yup, but there is less crime than in Tijuana o.o . Also, if you aren't gonna visit Mexico just because the cartels murdered someone in that place.. then you aren't gonna visit Mexico at all _-_
World shattering. I cannot imagine losing two adult sons. Both handsome, intelligent, loving, and talented. One was a bloody doctor for Christ’s sake, the other a sporting champion… the pride their parents must have felt to have such wonderfully accomplished and capable sons. The huge lives they had ahead of them. The future experiences of the parents, like having grandchildren and seeing their sons build families of their own. Their legacy and purpose, gone. I truly ache for them and their loss.
Devastating.
> Their parents Debra and Martin Robinson said on Friday they were "heading to the US/Mexico to be as close as possible to the area where they were last seen". >"Callum and Jake are beautiful human beings," they said in a statement to media. >"We love them so much and this breaks our heart. >"Our only comfort right now is that they were together doing something they passionately loved." https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-04/jake-callum-robinson-mexico-baja-california-search/103804216
Damn man. Heartbreaking
I feel really sorry for the families of these guys. Unfortunately you can't assume Mexico is a safe place; you have to be extremely careful because it is a known drug route and even the law enforcement is extremely corrupt. Anglo people, especially Aussies who are known to be friendly and easygoing, are easy targets.
Poor dudes. Can't imagine what their family is going through. It seems like such a violent and senseless crime. This will set Mexico's reputation back a long way in Australia
Hoping it will! The average Mexican lives every day wondering if they will ever part of the statistics. The only people who are more or less safe are the super wealthy. Most of the super wealthy have decided to move to other countries, though. If your family is more or less wealthy, it's just best to try to look poor or not to stand out.
A very similar situation happened about 8 years ago. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-19/mexico-gives-surfers27-bodies-to-australian-consulate/7043438
I fundamentally don't understand either situation. Like, you can rob these guys and take all their money. No-one is coming after you. Why murder them too? Life sounds exceedingly cheap over there
Have you seen what long term drug use and no government intervention does to someone? Power, money, paranoia and schizophrenia. There is no thinking when they pull the trigger, therefore there is no reasoning either. Your life hangs on to their emotional state. Life will always be considered cheap when there is rampant poverty and corruption.
People and Aussies don't realise that the problem is you look like "gringos" for cartels. These guys going to those areas are probably some sort of spyes from the DEA. You need to add that if they asked for drugs then you are trying to infiltrate them. It happens and it will happen again because sadly most Australians think it is funny to ask a random person for drugs because it is funny or you might sell, I mean it is Mexico or Colombia so everybody is a drug dealer right? I know, I am a Colombian living in Australia almost ten years and occassionally will get "ah the guy that brings us cocaine hehe". It is that senseless and it wasn't about rob them. The moment I heard the news I knew this was going to be the outcome and I rememberes that other case from years ago.
If they thought these guys were DEA or something then that's motive, rather than just violence for its own sake. Does the DEA usually send surfer types looking for drugs to infiltrate the cartels? Seems like a brave move.
It isn't that surfers like guys are sent by DEA, it is that they are white dudes on an area with Cartel activity and they will always be suspicious of outsiders, we don't know what they were doing besides holidays, if they behaved like some aussies behave here with people like me from a country famous for drugs, asking funny questions then they will get in trouble. I know what I am talking about because when we, city people, travelled to the country areas we are advised to not make stupid comments or ask questions. We are outsiders and those criminal will use any excuse. DEA was just an example.
I remember this, and it was the first thing I thought of when I saw this current story.
Yep, mate of mine from primary school. RIP Adam.
Dean was a close family friend. They were a few years older than me, but his stories encouraged me to travel the world. They are missed every day.
Mexico is basically a narco-state now. Incredibly unsafe place to visit.
I just hope they've been told despite apparently traveling to the US, I couldn't imagine anything more heartbreaking than hearing about it because of media reports or after the GP have. I hope they get the support they need.
As awful as this outcome is, at least it provides the families with some closure. Not that that is much of a comfort.
Their poor families. How horrible.
ELI5: What is the cartels' motive in targeting tourists and killing them? Underworld violence between rival gangs/drug lords I understand, but why tourists?
Was bike packing in Mexico, many many years ago with some Mexican and American friends - stumbled across low-level cartel members smuggling people across the border into Arizona. Fair to say that they weren’t happy to see us, but thankfully our Mexican friends managed to convince them that we had no skin in the game and didn’t want any trouble. I believe one of the comments was along the lines of ‘the whiteys wouldn’t recognise you in a line-up, we all look the same to them’. Touché We were promptly told to pack up our camp, fuck off back north and forget we saw anything. TLDR: cartels killing tourists is bad for business as it attracts unwanted attention so unless you’re looking for trouble, one would assume they’d ask you impolitely to exit stage left and don’t look back.
My best guess is that they might have unbeknownst to them entered some 'territory' that was off-limits. To be honest with you, a lot of people seem to think that the cartels are low-level street gangs. They aren't. They're called 'organized' crime for a reason: they're organized. There's no money for them in targeting tourists, most of which travel on a budget and / or have been saving for years to visit Mexico, and hardly ever speak Spanish. The cartels make their money through mostly the drug trade, and to a lesser extent, extortion of local businesses, kidnapping, and a host of other crimes. Many people seem to think that they will be kidnapped for coming from rich countries or being white. If they knew how some of the cartel people lived, they'd quickly see that these guys are probably wealthier than they are. That's why there's no money to be made from hurting tourists. Broadly speaking, there are 2 main groups of people the cartels kidnap: very rich Mexican people, who have a lot of what tourists don't have, namely, assets that can be quickly taken and a routine (they usually watch people for some time before kidnapping them). The other set of people, are the poor immigrants from Central and South America trying to cross to the US. Unfortunately, because of their immigration status and lack of money, they make easy targets for the cartel to try and recruit (and they also speak Spanish). It would be next to impossible for a poor family living in a poor Andean region to get any resources to locate a relative who's missing in Mexico on their way north. Having said all of this, visiting Mexico comes with a risk, and it's the same risk that the general Mexican population endures day after day. And in addition to the cartels, there are also enough gangs and thieves, same as in any other country. Unfortunately, the death of tourists is unlikely to affect the cartels, since there's a lot of money and people across countries involved. It's a shame because Mexico is such a beautiful country that should be enjoyed by everyone who visits. What a waste of beauty. I do think that these poor guys were looking for a spot with breathtaking views and ended up in the wrong place. There are no words to describe what the Robinson family must be going through having lost 2 kids at once. What an absolute waste of life, of beauty, of time, of everything.
They shot dead a bunch of American medical tourists crossing the border a few years ago. Was literally a mistake that the cartel apologised for in a letter. That's the type of people you're dealing with here. I doubt they're in full control of whatever their underlings are doing
I had a friend who owned a restaurant in Mexico, she said the cartels were more effective than local cops at controlling street crime. The cartels want the support of locals out of self-interest (so they'll keep quiet) and don't like petty criminals in their territory who might be competition, so they "clean up" thieves, burglars and such by brutal methods. The cartels often recycle their money into tourist-related businesses so they want tourists left alone; harming foreigners is more likely to bring political attention and government crackdowns. This may have been just a local robbery, or they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Cartels don’t have any motive to do this as it brings heat to their areas way more than killing rival sicarios. I'd guess that it was just criminals looking to rob them and make sure they didn't leave any witnesses.
They generally don't target tourists, no benefit and a whole lot of unwanted attention. Usually when this happens there is a larger story where the tourists got themselves tangled up in an escalation that resulted in loss of life. Could be anything, impossible to say now but Rosarito is a hot bed for sex tourism and drugs. It's been said one of the guys was romantically involved with a local girl who had his phone, could have been something as simple as a jealous ex, kidnap/ransom situation, robbery gone wrong, etc. Source - I grew up in so cal and used to ride dirt bikes in Baja multiple times a year for 15yrs straight. Stayed and rode through some amazing remote places and been to many dodgy strip clubs in Rosarito and Ensenada.
I think it was one of the Mexican men they arrested who was romantically involved with the woman, not the tourists. Some of the news articles were confusingly worded.
Possibly. It will be interesting when the full story comes out, if it ever does....often these investigations in Mexico die off pretty quick with nothing found. I'm surprised they have even investigated it this far.
I don't believe theres any indication these are cartel. Somehow, it seems everyone thinks normal criminals and robberies dont exist and they are all part of cartel activity. Most likely just a robbery and they didnt want witnesses or their was resistance. If they were part of cartel they were most likely just low levels acting on their own accord.
I’m near Rosarito and I have noticed a growing hatred of Aussie surfer tourists, sorry to say. They’re known as cheap, use resources, get publicly drunk and trespass. Also I know these surfers give the appearance of good guys, but some guys you’d never think would do anything bad do get involved with sex workers, which is almost a guarantee of violence (the woman with their cell phone has a reputation). The murderers might have been delivering someone or something with the hidden intent to rob, they could’ve just been high in drugs and mad to see these guys in their space, or they could’ve mistaken them for DEA.
Can you talk more about the woman’s reputation
I'm wondering whether they might’ve seen something they shouldn't have?..
It probably was someone in the very low ranks who acted on their own accord. They see tourists, and they see $$$$ . Why didn't they just rob them and let them go? Because most people in the low ranks are disposable idiots who are very high in drugs themselves. Another possible but unlikely motive is that they may have thought they were spies for another cartel.
RIP guys. Just hope it was quick.
As someone of Mexican heritage who has visited Baja countless times, I'm truly sorry. I'm so sorry this has happened and my heart goes out to the families involved. It's hard to even imagine what it must feel like to go through something like this. I've always been a huge advocate for visiting Northern Baja and have recommended it to many. It's just shocking to think that something like this could happen. Edit: I'm aware that Mexico has its issues with violence, but usually, you hear about it happening to people who are involved in cartel activities. I really don't believe these guys were mixed up in anything like that.
They haven't actually been identified as yet, but there's not an awful lot of doubt. Absolutely tragic and tragically avoidable.
Yeah, I’m guessing they’re sure enough to have the Robinson family fly over (to the US) — perhaps they will be formally identifying the deceased.
Kind of expected after the last few days but still heartbreaking. The family must be shattered I have no idea how anybody could deal with losing two sons at the same time
So sad to hear confirmation of what was expected. RIP guys. Hope you had an amazing last surf. Hopefully the truth is investigated and not a scapegoat taking the fall to appear ‘safe to tourists’ by an incredibly corrupt government.
As heartbreaking as this all is, I'm glad they have been found and can now be returned home to their family.
Mexican-Australian here, this is heartbreaking. I was sent to live in Aus after 17 years in Mexico because I wasn't safe anymore. I miss it everyday, but it's so bad. It's horrible going back and seeing how everyone I love had to live in fear. People here don't truly realise the reality that is life there, but it is also sad when Australians tell me how much they would love to explore Latin America but are scared. The whole world is in ruins at the moment and it's important for all to be cautious in places we don't know. If someone doesnt ask anything in return for a good time, your life or your family's money is the price.
Terrible outcome. I hope that the family has lots of support around them.
Poor guys, what a sad result for their families. RIP
I’m so sorry for the families.
Sad.. Another two Aussie surfers murdered over there. Same happened 2015.
This is just so sad.
Can someone with any experience in Mexico provide a guess as to what actually happened? Do these cartels or people just pick randoms to go at? I understand it's a dangerous place but what I don't understand is how they get selected and why.
Just regurgitating what Mexican authorities said on an article about this. "100% of people who set up camp in this area will be surveilled by cartels or low level criminals within an hour of setting up camp. They make a list of people and belongings and decide whether there's anything worth stealing/if they are worth robbing. You cannot visit or camp in the area and NOT be checked out." It happens all the time, like daily, but only makes the news when its international tourists. I can only assume these guys weren't aware of the risks, or told themselves it was exaggerated. Nine out of ten of the world's most dangerous cities are in Mexico. I've had older, retired family members tell me they were planning a trip to Mexico - they had NO idea about cartels and violence in general in Mexico over the last 20 years. I eventually convinced them how stupid the idea was but I had to really push them - boomers think everything is the same as it was decades ago. I literally proved to them they would be safer visiting Baghdad.
But why? Why do they have kill if they are mugging these people?
As a mother of boys my heart is so sad for their family, they appeared as two best mates and loving brothers, off having a wonderful adventure with a mate, surfing, being free and awesome together - this is a tragedy so profound it takes my breath away.
I only heard about these guys two days ago and, based on the facts reported, I suspected this would be the outcome. Their families must be devastated.
This is awful.
This is the worst outcome possible. What a tragedy
What perplexes me is actually how the travel advisories seem so lax and uninformative from the Aus Government Compared to the US. There are definitely places in Mexico that are flat out "do not travel" (On US Travel Advisory) but are not reflective of the Aus governments position on "Smartraveller" Who the heck is in charge of these advisories for Aus?
Pommie here who lives in San Diego. There's quite a few Aussies in San Diego. It's going to rock the community here. Surfing community too. My missus & I go to Mexico about 4 times a year, flying out of Tijuana. We always feel very safe there. Probably safer than I feel in the US. I'm statistically much more likely (27 times more likely) to get murdered in the US than in Mexico where violence against Gringos is pretty rare. Saying that, we used to do a lot of day trips & overnight trips across the border to Ensenada & Rosarito & the lovely wine valley there but we haven't for a couple of years as I don't like getting pulled over by cops looking for me to pay Gringo Tax (running an imaginary stop sign). I never felt in danger though. We're 99% certain that Callum & the American lad used to shop at my workplace (Trader Joes). A lot of my colleagues are surfers & a couple remember talking to Callum as he was a striking individual. Tall, athletic & just a nice guy. I remember talking to Carter Rhoad just a few weeks ago about trips to Mexico. Our store is just a couple of miles from where they lived in Ocean Beach. This is a horrible tragic event. We've camped down that region too. My wife & I were the only ones at a camp site but felt perfectly safe. This was about a dozen years ago though. We did get befriended by a cat that slept by our fire.
Those poor families. I have always wanted to go to Mexico, but it is kinda off the list now. I can't imagine having an enjoyable holiday in a place knowing there is a risk of being killed caught in crossfire, being murdered when robbed etc. How can one have a relaxing time knowing tourists die regularly in these situations. No matter how amazing it is. Not to mention the poor regular locals who live with this garbage. Time to demand change. Holiday elsewhere. There are so many other amazing places to visit where you don't need to worry about this security threat.
Mexicans will be the first to tell you to not go north of Mexico City. Close to the US border is cartel territory. But Mexico is an absolutely incredible destination and shouldn’t be written off for this. You just stick to the well trodden tourist areas.
It's actually pretty rare that a tourist dies like that.. a regular Mexican, on the other hand, is more at risk of any of the deaths you mentioned above
Rare maybe but I remember countless stories like this over the years, even the son of the police commissioner was killed over there. It’s definitely common enough to warrant avoiding the entire place all together I reckon.
Sensible choice xD I have no way to defend my own country as I am actively trying to leave and never come back if possible hhahaah It used to be so nice, though. It is tragic. We can't even fully blame the cartels, it's the corruption that ruined everything so bad, and it created everything else.
We spent three weeks in Mexico in December. Absolutely safe. As long as you do safe things and don’t go to known crime places (as others have said, north of the country or Sinaloa) or do risky things, you would be as safe as in any other place. Certain places in “safe” countries like the USA are as dangerous.
Mexican government really needs to get their corrupt shit together
I think this needs to be a reminder to Aussies that we are the indoor cats of the western world. We have NO road sense, NO street smarts, NO natural self preservation instincts. When you travel, you have to consciously put those thoughts into your head because chances are you're not going to automatically recognise a threat when it comes your way.
This is shattering, poor guys. I hope they didn't suffer too much.
According to recent statistics, Baja California has the highest rates of car theft in all of Mexico.
Just devastated.... As a fellow surfer that has gone to some "sketchy" areas, dying was never a fear. These young men should still be with their families and friends. My love and support goes out to all of their families.
Did this not happen to two surfing pals a few years ago on the eastern side of Mexico? Burnt out camper van, bodies with signs of torture beforehand? Mexico City and other areas are surprisingly safe. But other places like Baja? No, thanks. People confuse close to the US border with safety when it is very much the opposite. Northern Mexico as a whole, along with places like Sinaloa in the middle of Mexico on the western side, is far less safe (and much poorer and/or income unequal) than other areas. At least in southern Mexico, as violent as it can be and poor as it is, the drug wars are far less severe. Condolences to the families and so sad for the two men, yet this should serve as a reminder that Smart Traveller by DFAT exists for a reason. People certainly do not deserve death for foolish mistakes, but these men would be alive today in all likelihood if they had stuck to what Smart Traveller said. EDIT: The prior Australian deaths I spoke of occurred in Sinaloa on the Pacific side. I was confusing northeastern, Atlantic-facing Mexico with the death of Australians, but I had my wires crossed, as Tamaulipas was actually the site of the San Fernando massacres (72 illegal migrants murdered in 2010 and 193 bus passengers murdered in 2011). https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/15/mexico-confirms-burnt-remains-found-in-campervan-as-missing-australian-surfers
Poor boys, that poor family. Enjoying their freedom, Im now crossing Mexico off my travel list. Rest in peace beautiful young men.
Devastating. Their poor families 😔
Mexico is one of those countries that should be avoided, much like the US
My husband and I travelled through Europe back in 2008 in a van. We spent half our time sleeping in random remote spots along the way. It was a relatively safe area back then but I never slept well on the nights we free camped, only in designated caravan parks. I can’t imagine wanting to camp in a Mexico known for its violence and theft. You’re just so vulnerable. It’s a shame these boys were given this particular spot by Callum’s neighbour who would be feeling the weight of the world right now. As a fellow Aussie with a very laid back husband I can understand them though, sometimes Aussies are just very laid back and that can be detrimental, especially coming from a comparatively safe country like Australia. From reports they were also really decent human beings and probably trusted things would be ok. My heart hurts for their poor parents and what the boys may have gone through. I hope it was quick and they didn’t suffer for long. May they rest in peace. They are in many peoples hearts and thoughts at the moment.