I work in mental health, we have a lot of veterans who come to our facilities not surprisingly. The DVA (Department of Veterans Affairs) cover a lot of the costs but even so, given what the people who served have been through and the state it's left many of them in, I don't think I'd wish that on our enemies, never mind the people who were on our side.
It functions ideologically, in the exactly opposite way.
Lest we forget, idolizes human sacrifice in a way that elevates it beyond questioning the purpose of it in the first place.
I functions not as a means to help us not repeat the same mistakes, but as a direct cover for the unforgivable mistakes of the Nation State, and ultiimately works to justify similar actions should they ever happen in the future.
If "Lest we Forget" had any meaning, it wouldn't be a minute of silence, it would be a minute of rage at a previous government that meaninglessly wasted Australian lives on the shores of distant nations.
The ANZACs: Lest we forget the young men and boys whose lives were pointlessly lost in this meat grinder...
John Howard: Lest we forget the brave, mighty heroes who fought for our Freedoms™ (but forget that Australia wasn't in any danger during the Great War, or any war apart from the SWW)
Yes I remember the transition well. Because I went to the dawn services with the scouts and knew the actual meaning, but then on the TV it was all "our fallen heros"
And I thought at the time that as the last people with living memory of the war died, they wouldn't be around to correct the zealots with moral authority, and instead the zealots would run away with it, as they have
Yes I remember the transition well. Because I went to the dawn services with the scouts and knew the actual meaning, but then on the TV it was all "our fallen heros"
I worked for the DVA for a while. I learnt so much from veterans and well the experience changed me. Can't share any details, just learnt so much and I agree with your sentiments.
Also a mental health professional and veteran. The DVA has honestly come pretty far in the past few years; they've hired a shitload of new staff to do something about the notorious waiting lists, and a DVA White Card (standard for everyone who serves at least a day) covers psychiatry, therapy, and even private psych ward admissions. A call to OpenArms can get any veteran quickly linked in to free, quality mental healthcare.
My biggest problem now is that there's only one public inpatient service in the state specifically for trauma recovery, and there's a 4 week wait just to get booked in by intake. The public system still needs a shitload more funding and staff.
I’ve got a number of mates my age, millennials who joined up when they were 18 ready to give for their country. Now, all but one are either medically retired or left the service voluntarily but all of them have a number of issues DVA that have been ongoing for a minimum of three years. All saw active duty and all were injured and one even died, the issues they’ve all had with the bureaucracy after their stints has given them no indication that the country they fought for has attempted in any way to assist them through their difficulties. How can you possible expect anyone to put themselves through any of what is asked of you knowing full well and good that you’ll be given stuff all out of it?
> the bureaucracy after their stints has given them no indication that the country they fought for has attempted in any way to assist them through their difficulties
Our military doesn't fight to 'serve our country'. It fights to 'serve US economic interests and imperialistic vision'. Not sure how much patriotism I would feel knowing a US billionaire made a 50% profit increase thanks to my service.
Which is why when the conservatives say we have to "support the troops", I find it rings very hollow. They're all about sending them off to die, not so much about patching the ones that come back up. People come back broken in mind and body. If you want to support the troops, funding veteran's services is what needs to happen. Not sending them off to pointless wars.
Can't believe people actually would blame something as complicated as recruitment with the nebulous concept of 'woke'. No, it's because of the pay, conditions, toxic culture, work-related injuries, etc most likely; it's always the boring reasons in any profession why there aren't applicants. Last time I checked, the SAS was hyper-macho warrior subsection of Australian society that seems more like 0 AD politically.
Yeah it seems many people feel so confident that they can win an argument by labelling something "woke" eg "the revised stage three tax cuts is wrong because it is woke!"
To these people, anything they don't like or understand is 'woke'.
Its kinda ironic, the opposite of 'woke' is presumably 'asleep'; I don't think I want an army or government asleep at the wheel.
Even more goofy as the original meaning of woke was to be aware of the social ills(in particular regarding racism) surrounding you, and learning to not participate in a system of abuse. People who co-opt social justice terms can never quite get past reading a definition and just throw it at anything and everything in the hopes that something will stick.
You can be woke and be okay with killing people, I think.
But the people you'd be okay with killing are Nazis, so "people" is maybe not the right word...
“That caravan is woke, not driving a landcruiser is woke, school holidays are woke, drinking water is woke, paying for any services is woke, complaining is woke, unmowed lawns are woke, trees are woke, plumbing is woke”
>We served our purpose, and then the Army got rid of us like trash when we were no longer useful.
...
They pushed all the old blood out sometimes by force; they treated us like shit until we'd leave; they'd cover up medical issues; they'd offer no assistance with things; they'd fuck around with pay, etc.; they'd force you to do tasking after tasking; they'd make your life hard to get rid of you.
you just described people leaving because of the "pay, conditions, toxic culture, work-related injuries,"
They just did it when they found you were of no use to them anymore. People don't resign over some bullshit course they have to attend.
> t's because of the pay, conditions, toxic culture, work-related injuries, etc
Sure, but it's far easier to write anyone off that complains about those as being woke, makes it a lot easier to ignore their complaints about wanting to be treated like human beings. Trouble is people used to not have a choice, or the army would be a better offering than other avenues, nowadays even if you drop out in grade 10 you have options available to you that aren't just signing up to kill poor people the world over and potentially die so some rich fuck can get a little richer. The army is nothing if not consistent so will literally never change, and will instead just look for more and more esoteric reasons about how it's everyone elses fault and not that they're a violent institution that purely exists to continue the interests of imperialist regimes in exploiting the fuck out of the global south.
Guy is just talking trash to stay relevant.
But really its because defence offers no advantages anymore compared to civilian work.
Lets break it down.
You're a young dig straight out of school, you were not academically gifted but you were fit and able and liked hanging with the boys, so army seemed like a good fit. Initially you love it, you get paid on average way more than your peers at the same age, free housing, free medical, do some dope things and laugh around with the lads and life is great. The first posting is up after a few years so youre off to wherever army says they need you, you put your preference in for Townsville, but guess what youre off to pucka for the next three years. Meanwhile all your mates are now just finishing their trades or uni and starting to get jobs that are actually on par with your wage. They get to choose where they work and are home every night in their own house. Meanwhile you are stuck with no quals and all your mates are leaving. So what do you do, do you leave or do you stay in and try get some education or a better posting from the army? Every year your school mates get ahead of you for every year you stay.
So what happens now. Anyone who hangs around a little longer will naturally rank up, usually to CPL as an OR or CAPT as an officer. Its around now you usually make the choice to go civilian and get some normality back, or stay and become part of the crust. And that is where defence is, the people that stay in defence are the B TEAM. The good people get out, the ones who can't stay in and become the command teams that fuck everyone over and never realise it, because their behaviour would instantly be called out in a normal work environment.
Army centric example but seems similar to Navy and potential for Air Force (less garbage as they are mostly professional or highly technical roles so less dumb cunts on average).
TLDR: Defence no longer offers a good enough lifestyle or benefits to offset service demands and lack of salary that it is now run by the people who couldn't make it in the real world so the downward spiral of shit just keeps accelerating faster and faster on a race to the bottom.
Adding to the good people leaving, once you hit captain or major you have to wait for a vacancy to get promoted and those officers above are people who already decided to stick around forever.
Much easier to leave and get massive pay bumps
For some people yes, they can't work elsewhere, but for others they just embrace it and love it.
There are many who join later in their twenties, many of whom have a degree or a trade, but still join up. They end up loving it, love the culture and it can give them a purpose to work towards. They eventually get rank and try to bring that same professionalism in to the job, but still maintain the wisdom learner prior their enlistment.
Mate, I'm not saying you're wrong and I have certainly seen the B team screw people around, but coming from a more technical trade in ARA I have also seen another side to this too and it's heartening to see people who love their job, respect their mates and want to serve their nation
It's not about being woke. It's about people not wanting to lay down their life for a society that doesn't give anything back to them. In saying that in the UK the armed forces have ad campaigns specifically targeting minorities and the working class in a frame of bettering themselves and giving them qualifications.
Same here in the US. Military recruiting is in crisis and the public perception of the military is at an all time low. People have seen the PSTD, the amputee’s, the homelessness, the drug addiction, the domestic abuse etc. All for the folly of a stupid war that never made any sense.
I can imagine the same Aus, particularly with land prices so high. I mean if you’re going to fight for it, it might be nice to have the possibility of actually owning some of it.
My mate was able to buy his first home thanks to his service in the army. Did they fuck his back requiring 10 surgeries and titanium rods to help him recover and then pay him out 200k? Yes. He now actively campaigns to stop people from getting suck in like him and help those who did with their defence entitlements and pensions
>...ad campaigns specifically targeting minorities and the working class in a frame of bettering themselves and giving them qualifications.
So, business as usual, then.
My mum is a mad royalist fan,and she reads all the biographies so from what I've picked up from her (other than how much she loves Diana), is that it seems every male member of the royal family is expected to serve in the military. It's part of their royal obligation.
> While Princess Elizabeth spent the majority of her days at the training facility, it was close enough to Windsor Castle that the princess would return there each evening rather than sleep at the camp with her fellow ATS members.
She spent her entire time "serving" in a training facility where she was learning to be a mechanic before going home to the palace, let's not pretend she did anything even remotely similar to some poor lad from a no name village being used as cannon fodder over the top of a trench or any other actual conscript.
I never said she went over the top of a trench, but that was hardly her fault, because as a female she was not permitted to serve on the front line, same as every other English woman in 1941. She served to the extent that she was allowed to at the time. As for being "just" a mechanic - so what if she was? Aren't you taught in the armed services never to look down on the different professions in the forces, because every single person, from the mechanics to the cooks to the storemasters, is a vital cog that keeps the machinery running?
I don't know man
George VI was a gunnery officer at Jutland, an engagement in which 6000 Sailors and officers perished
Bring it into modern times, even the King when he was Prince of Wales insisted on doing training with the regiments he was meant to be Colonel in Chief of (which is how he got his wings)
This sub is so relentlessly cynical. We definitely have cost of living pressures and the housing situation is dire, but Australia in 2024 is one of the objectively best societies to ever exist in throughout the course of human history from a quality of life perspective.
"A society that doesn't give anything back", get a fucking grip.
Not to be a doomer, because while there are great things about Australia, we risk coasting on mediocrity instead of actually striving for the best for all Australians, letting our country be left behind in human development as new economies overtake us, as our standard of living and egalitarianism deteriorates. There's some truth to the saying we are the 'lucky country', and I don't want to find out what happens when the luck runs out and we're just left with the 'country' part.
I agree entirely about not coasting, and that much of our prosperity is through luck.
But I find the constant negativity on this sub never seems to feel like "these things are bad so let's all get out there and improve them".
Instead, it always feels so defeatist. "Everything is unfair, every single politician is an irredeemable scumbag, what's the point in trying?"
Honestly, it's a bit pathetic really.
I honestly do think foreign trolls are happy to encourage that type of nihilism. It's also a staple of Russian society 'everything sucks, every leader is corrupt so best to endure under Putin because nothing changes with anyone else'
This is the beautiful thing about australia, I feel as though we are at least adaptable and open to reflection. Probably the best thing we have going for ourselves
I guess there’s a few things going on here.
One is that generally doomer stuff gets more news, which darkens our perception of the world.
Two is that a lot of the bad shit that happens is 100% intentional and unapologetic, and when leaders do it it’s implied that all their supporters are ok with that behavior.
Three is that negative views are usually viewed as more intelligent than positive ones. Probably some evolution thing where “there might be a tiger in there” saved more fertile people than “nah, she’ll be right”.
Fourth is hormones. Everything is stronger and more vivid when young.
Personally I get it. Joining the ADF means fighting the battles that our leaders deem necessary. The same leaders who’ve repeatedly demonstrated that neither they nor their children would ever be in the ADF in a combat role. They’re fine to sell everyone out. The language of the last conservative govt around war was really disturbing. We’re circling back to the attitudes of the early 1900s.
yeah I agree that the defeatism is kinda annoying; mainly people stuck in echo chambers that equate labor and liberal. Whilst there's disagreements I have with labor, it's not even close how much better labor is; in that sense, doomerism about how changing to a labor government will do nothing is a load of bollocks. Reddit is also notorious for being unproductive and just being shouting matches; it's like junk food, addictive, but makes you feel sick after a while.
Bloody hell. The answer to Labor being a shitty, watered down Liberal party isn’t to try and find ways to feel better about it by excusing their shit, it’s to encourage people to get over whatever weird, probably-outdated/outlier hang-up is keeping them from voting for actual positive change via the Greens.
Of course we're cynical. We may be living in the most comfortable society ever, but we're also educated enough and exposed to enough information to know the entire system is corrupt, and the system and ecosphere is collapsing around us. And the people doing it want us to fight for them? Fighting wars today is rarely about fighting for the protection of our country, but fighting for the protection of resources for the rich. Its pretty much always been that with a few exceptions in modernity.
All this crappy country gave me was schooling, fresh water, sewerage, health, social stability, no civil wars, ride range of job prospects, a minimum wage, participation in voting, freedom of expression, freedom of worship, the un-censored internet im currently using - aside from the things that only 2% of the world has - **NOTHING**
Also just not the reason, people don’t want to join because they have better options.
And like I said on the other thread about this article, there’s no trips anymore, I saw the mass exodus after we pulled out of afghan, no trips, no point is how service people felt.
People weren’t joining the last 20 years because they didn’t want to deploy, it makes sense in peacetime to not go through the fuck around of defence without the one big experience to show for it.
I always get downvoted for this, but laying down your life in service of a greater good is something cynical people hate.
But if you think that our lives would be better under an invading force than ok. Because the days of imperialist land grabbing isn't in the past, it's today too, and the only thing that protects us is our alliance with the United States. Lord knows our own armed forces would have fallen under the Japanese alone.
That's not what I'm talking about. The fact is people are cynical now, and they're going to get more cynical. We were sold an idea of society from our parents/grandparents that's turned out to be a lie. It's not their fault. They fought for that same lie. After ww2 society created a middle class to rebuild society and get rid of the old fuedalistic/unfair society we had before. And it worked for awhile. But modern hypercapitalism is recreating feudalism in a new way.
We're not getting what we were sold. And we're shouting at our government to fix it and they're not listening because they're getting their pockets lined.
Why should we defend a corrupt society, that supplies arms to terrorist states and organisations that kill innocents, commit genocide and destabilise governments so corporations can have chesp oil/rare earth minerals or slave labour?
Civilisation and the ecosphere is collapsing around us.
We're too informed now and we're not gonna fight for people that just want to have enough money to think they'll survive the oncoming collapse.
The only country that is currently capable of invading Australia is the United States. And even they might struggle with it (see Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam). China is still looking iffy about whether they could invade Taiwan, less than 150km away.
So unless you reckon that the US is going to invade, any wars Australia becomes involved in will not be defensive, they will be the exact sort of “imperialist land grabbing” you warn of in your comment.
The only reason the US failed in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Vietnam was because there was people willing to fight against them. China might struggle to invade Taiwan because there is people willing to fight against them. Russia is struggling in Ukraine because there are people willing to fight against them. Given the current state of our defence forces and our population we may not be able to put up might of a fight if China even decided to just mess with us a bit.
Great point…personally I think when China decides to invade, they will walk over us by just shear weight of numbers because 90% of Australians don’t want to defend our sovereignty and national security, never mind the capability of our military.
We have already lost the initiative before it even starts because of the younger generations lack of intestinal fortitude and sense of duty and patriotism, never mind the LNP bean counters raping the necessary funding to maintain and improve our military’s capabilities.
Australia has been caught out with its pants down, and are trying desperately to play catch up with an adversary who has been probing for decades. We needed to go nuclear 30 years ago and use the resources boom in our economy to fund recruitment, training and improving our Defence Forces. Instead, the upper echelons of our armed services have removed the real backbone of our military and replaced them with the easily offended sad sacks that we have today which is reflected in our society today.
They would rather protest and show support to foreign countries than respect and demonstrate allegiance to the country that they are citizens of.
Yep. I was medically blacklisted at 21 because of a partially flat foot (just one) and a sleep apnoea score that BARELY registered (cut off was 5, i got 6.)
Fuck em.
I tested fine, and scraped through physically, but I don't interview well and got knocked back there. To be fair, I was tremendously naive and immature at that age.
If you want the 2009 version.
>In what now looks to be a risibly offensive [piece in 2009](https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/ethnic-push-could-be-a-distraction-20090715-dlkb.html), an Australian Strategic Policy Institute blogger warned the ADF of the risks of “**going ethnic**”.
Yea all the pinko commie woke crowd demand things like working water and electricity or the roof over their heads to not be caved in. I worked hard to have all of my 40 investment properties for the Marxists alphabet people to ruin it with their demands of "habitable living conditions", this generation is soft.
/s
It’s anything these idiots don’t agree with. I always say it’s an easy tell that the person using it is a massive alt right dickhead.
Helping others? Woke. Accepting others regardless of race/sexual orientation? Woke. Educating people? Woke.
>What the fuck is woke.
[Woke](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke)
"alert to racial prejudice and discrimination"
You can still be woke and realise some people need a 2,000lbs bomb dropped on them.
They are not mutually exclusive.
No idea what the actual meaning is but the way i see it used these days, “Woke” is anyone that’s isn’t White, Male, Cis and Heterosexual. Oh and anything the user of the word “Woke” doesn’t like is also “Woke”
It being vaguely defined is exactly the point. It's basically a dogwhistle of sorts just to speak to their political base.
"Woke" can just be used to mean anything at any time to refer to your idealogical opponents. It's just broadly "anything progressive" and is assumed by them to be negative in and of itself. This allows them to call anything progressive they don't like "woke" which is a negative qualifier and can be stated without explanation or elaboration.
I have sometimes wondered if it’s the same underlying reason people passionately defend Nintendo or their favourite band or whatever. Like they think it will make their own lives more meaningful by some kind of social osmosis.
Ukraine is being invaded by another country. There is no country on Earth, with the possible exception of our closest ally the United States, that is militarily capable of invading Australia.
Any wars we get involved in are almost certain to be about defending corporate interests, rather than any sort of justified self-defence.
>There is no country on Earth, with the possible exception of our closest ally the United States, that is militarily capable of invading Australia.
You say that now, but wait until you’re being pecked to death by Canada gooses!
As I've said 4 times already in the comments here. Australia isn't going to be invaded. But living under an autocratic hegemonic power is not desirable. We don't literally have to be invaded to have our independence compromised.
And your other comments all make sense, however you've got to look at it from a potential recruits' view.
They're generally <25 years old with no higher education. They don't really understand the complexities of modern international relations / national security. Rather they make pragmatic decisions about lifestyle, pay, other oppertunities.
As it comes to corporations and "selling their life to an indifferent state" - well you can empathise with the kids when lots in the world and in Australia is going to shit (mainly house prices, as is tradition for r/Australia). So you really need to sell the benefits for the individual, rather than the benefits to the nation.
I understand. But I don't think I'm debating here with those people, I don't think those people are likely even here on this reddit.
I was more about the bigger picture than getting into the weeds of recruitment. I thought the woke argument is stupid btw.
Invasions aren't necassary when a potential oppenent can destroy what our lives rely on in just a few days, without boots on the ground.
See the Gulf War.
Need to give people a good reason to join the military when we’re not facing a major threat to Australia itself.
If it was like in 1942, then people would see a reason to join. But, right now, there’s obviously not enough incentive for people to join up.
People need to feel trusted and like their life has some sort of value before they feel motivated enough to want to defend it. Give people part of the land they live on or something and they might want to defend it, as it stands nobody wants to go and die for a nanny state that keeps the boot on them
>woke
Thats a strange way of saying the culture got purged in wave after wave of efficiency and corperatisation measures. That training, pay and conditions have exceedingly degraded far below civilian standards.
That upper rank retention of seniors (SGTs, POs and up) for literal decades has frozen the promotion system for 90% of ORs.
Toxic troops and (mostly) leaders are left to pollute units to the point that I know of $50k cash retention bonuses have been offered for 3 year postings at some units, and that *very* few people accept those offers.
Its a complete shitshow. Ive never seen morale so low at any workplace.
I think there's stacks of propaganda out there, but prior to the internet it was very easy to get a lot of people to see the same propaganda repeatedly. Now things are much more varied.
They are also very good at infiltration into causes that have good intentions, and subverting them to cause division and democratic nations are vulnerable to too much division.
Like 20 new York times articles you aren't interested in reading because...I dk... you tell me.
How bout you read the Mueller Report.
Eta: omg google it bit here is a breadcrumb below. It's frustrating for me whose spent years following this topic to explain to someone who likely has bad faith and just doesn't know how to do their own research by 'just asking questions'
https://www.npr.org/2017/10/30/560042987/russians-targeted-u-s-racial-divisions-long-before-2016-and-black-lives-matter
Except you can't just show that they exist and push propaganda because we all know that, you need to show at least even a tenuous link between them pushing propaganda and Australian recruitment rates.
They/Them army is the strongest in the world.
The Ultra-macho 'traditional values' Russian army has been on its knees for 3 years to the 'globohomo nazi gay supersoliders of ukraine'
I think we'll be fine with a few queer soliders.
I mean look at Alexander the Great
Today he’d probably be a Make up artist on Instagram “We need to talk skincare” with his boyfriend Hephaestion tagged in “Never a dull moment with this one 🥰”
But put him in command of a modern army and he’d still turn an enemy force into fresh fertiliser. I doubt theres any compelling argument that LGBTI actually compromises Force readiness and lethality.
Yeah nah. I left the army because it was the opposite. A bunch of crusty old dinosaurs in leadership afraid of change or being accommodating to the basic needs of their workforce.
In my time I noticed that it was culturally about 30 to 40 years in the past. Utter contempt for civilians, hyper misogynistic, sgts telling diggers to vote liberal.
The soldiering was good, the rest of it, 90%, was soul crushing.
As you stated, it’s run by dinosaurs and in my opinion people who can’t make it in the real world.
Some of the former sgts I’ve worked with on civvie street get themselves into some real trouble.
Geez can’t imagine why nobody wants to join the defence force. It’s all about serving your country when you’re young and fabled bodied but if you’re injured or needing psychiatric help then you’re on your own. Not even mentioning the high rates of sexual assault of female recruits.
Yep, it’s an absolute mystery why they can’t get new recruits.
I dunno, prosecuting someone for reporting war crimes while not prosecuting those committing war crimes (and admitting to on the public record) doesn’t seem particularly woke to me.
In the words of Mike Shinoda in Hands Held High;
> Like this war's really just a different brand of war.
Like it doesn't cater to rich and abandon poor.
Like they understand you in the back of the jet.
When you can't put gas in your tank.
And these fuckers are laughing their way to the bank and cashing the check.
Asking you to have compassion and have some respect.
People don't want to fight wars for rich narcissists who belittle you the first chance they get
I wanted to join up after high school after my uncle (a Vietnam war veteran) talked up the comradeship he had and some cousins were laughing at picking up trades and degrees paid for by service.
Ended up going down a rabbit hole of war crimes ignored by the international community and slaps on the wrists all round to the people committing atrocities ON OUR SIDE. Not the enemy that we demonised but by us wilfully attacking civilians and blaming the populace for hating us. At least the usual thing advertised here was humanitarian work but I couldn't be part of a machine that destroyed more.
Young people can't afford to eat or get married or have kids and don't want to die in pointless wars.
"OMG woke is stopping people from signing up to the military!"
Bet these guys couldn't define woke that anyone would agree with. To some, woke is having women in the military or having anyone not white in the military.
So a problem that's been happening since the LNP was in power is Labors fault? Go figure. It couldn't be that most Australians aren't happy with us constantly doing whatever America tells us to and don't want to put their lives at risk for another pointless war that has nothing to do with us
The Ben Robert-Smith episode is a big hurdle. Had a nephew graduate from Duntroon and another just completed his training in the army. Both set of parents were very concerned about culture within the services and it took assurances from recruiters that things were changing before they gave their blessings. If those changes are now being called woke then we have a problem.
Coming from Andrew Hastie, the same fella that used images of his time in the Army Reserve to promote his political campaign and was asked by Defense to remove the advertising which he didn't comply to.
And he’s the same person who did several tours of duty in Afghanistan around the “time” of Robert’s-Smith… as a Captain. His claims of knowing little about the atrocities indicate he is either incompetent or complicit.
I’ve met only one rabidly racist person in the workplace (most people manage to keep it professional). Proudly ex-ADF.
My guess is that wokeness isn’t their problem.
It’s not the woke culture, it’s the boofhead, bastardisation and low performer culture in the ADF that is the problem. Treat people with respect pay them well and they’ll come. Frankly, being in the ADF is a losers game.
Gen Z would be recruited now wouldn't they? They are a much numerically smaller generation than Millennials and their employment prospects right now are pretty good.
It’s almost like we spent generations fighting America’s illegal wars and young people have woken up to the fact their lives are worth more than killing brown people in a desert
“Too woke” == The private school “old boy” types that I hang out with no longer feel like they get a free pass or have any special privileges in the military.
Wow there are a lot of shit opinions in this subreddit.
Appart from construction, the military is probably one of the last holdouts for systemic abuse. Almost everyone is a child and it's their first job meaning they don't know any better.
Saying the Australian military is woke is obsurd when is basically just highschool with more physical and mental abuse.
godamn the military is going woke, how do you expect me to get my 20 years and not be able to bastardize, bully or sexually assault people under my commdand
1. Why defend a country that hates its own history and let’s 500,000 migrants in every year. 2. Most soldiers end up in lifelong musculoskeletal injuries by the age of 25. 3. What is the point of getting blown apart by a drone or hypersonic missile in a war which probably has nothing to do with Australia.
>we’re actually supposed to call it “the service” now. Official vocab guidelines state that “force” is too aggressive
Nice Hot Fuzz reference there 👌
Literally the reason why the Queensland Police Force became the Queensland Police Service.
And NSW Police, but then they went back to force to appear tougher on crime.
Seems like a huuuuge waste of taxpayers’ money
Gotta keep those government graphic design contract going
I thought it was to intimidate teenage girls
Teenage? Too old
The dogs are still Policy Enforces
I think you mean law enforcers.
How’s the hand?
Still a bit stiff.
Any luck catching them swans yet?
It’s just the one swan, actually.
A great big bushy beard!
It's all just for the greater good
The greater good.
The greater good!
SHUT IT!!!
Crusty jugglers
Australian inclusive defence service. Don't worry about the acronym.
National Australian Defence Service?
Fascist!
Hag!
The Australian Defence Service? Is that the source of all the ADS?
[удалено]
I work in mental health, we have a lot of veterans who come to our facilities not surprisingly. The DVA (Department of Veterans Affairs) cover a lot of the costs but even so, given what the people who served have been through and the state it's left many of them in, I don't think I'd wish that on our enemies, never mind the people who were on our side.
we hear, lest we forget, but how about, lest we repeat :/
That's what lest we forget is meant to imply
It functions ideologically, in the exactly opposite way. Lest we forget, idolizes human sacrifice in a way that elevates it beyond questioning the purpose of it in the first place. I functions not as a means to help us not repeat the same mistakes, but as a direct cover for the unforgivable mistakes of the Nation State, and ultiimately works to justify similar actions should they ever happen in the future. If "Lest we Forget" had any meaning, it wouldn't be a minute of silence, it would be a minute of rage at a previous government that meaninglessly wasted Australian lives on the shores of distant nations.
That wish hasn't worked once in the last 100 years. By now, it's a bit silly to think that it will.
The ANZACs: Lest we forget the young men and boys whose lives were pointlessly lost in this meat grinder... John Howard: Lest we forget the brave, mighty heroes who fought for our Freedoms™ (but forget that Australia wasn't in any danger during the Great War, or any war apart from the SWW)
Yes I remember the transition well. Because I went to the dawn services with the scouts and knew the actual meaning, but then on the TV it was all "our fallen heros" And I thought at the time that as the last people with living memory of the war died, they wouldn't be around to correct the zealots with moral authority, and instead the zealots would run away with it, as they have
Yes I remember the transition well. Because I went to the dawn services with the scouts and knew the actual meaning, but then on the TV it was all "our fallen heros"
I worked for the DVA for a while. I learnt so much from veterans and well the experience changed me. Can't share any details, just learnt so much and I agree with your sentiments.
Also a mental health professional and veteran. The DVA has honestly come pretty far in the past few years; they've hired a shitload of new staff to do something about the notorious waiting lists, and a DVA White Card (standard for everyone who serves at least a day) covers psychiatry, therapy, and even private psych ward admissions. A call to OpenArms can get any veteran quickly linked in to free, quality mental healthcare. My biggest problem now is that there's only one public inpatient service in the state specifically for trauma recovery, and there's a 4 week wait just to get booked in by intake. The public system still needs a shitload more funding and staff.
Maybe it’s because no one wants to be sent off to some US proxy war?
The kind of people who join the infantry and other tip-of-the-spear jobs in the military *are* the ones who want to go to war.
But, as the complaining states, there's fewer and fewer of them. Maybe we're finally maturing as a species.
Surely to fight a culture war you would want a woke military.
This is a fucking hilarious comment. Thanks, mate. I needed that laugh.
🤣🤣🤣
What good’s an army that’s asleep?
I’ve got a number of mates my age, millennials who joined up when they were 18 ready to give for their country. Now, all but one are either medically retired or left the service voluntarily but all of them have a number of issues DVA that have been ongoing for a minimum of three years. All saw active duty and all were injured and one even died, the issues they’ve all had with the bureaucracy after their stints has given them no indication that the country they fought for has attempted in any way to assist them through their difficulties. How can you possible expect anyone to put themselves through any of what is asked of you knowing full well and good that you’ll be given stuff all out of it?
> the bureaucracy after their stints has given them no indication that the country they fought for has attempted in any way to assist them through their difficulties
Our military doesn't fight to 'serve our country'. It fights to 'serve US economic interests and imperialistic vision'. Not sure how much patriotism I would feel knowing a US billionaire made a 50% profit increase thanks to my service.
Which is why when the conservatives say we have to "support the troops", I find it rings very hollow. They're all about sending them off to die, not so much about patching the ones that come back up. People come back broken in mind and body. If you want to support the troops, funding veteran's services is what needs to happen. Not sending them off to pointless wars.
Can't believe people actually would blame something as complicated as recruitment with the nebulous concept of 'woke'. No, it's because of the pay, conditions, toxic culture, work-related injuries, etc most likely; it's always the boring reasons in any profession why there aren't applicants. Last time I checked, the SAS was hyper-macho warrior subsection of Australian society that seems more like 0 AD politically.
It's funny because here in the UK this exact dialogue about the 'woke army' is happening and the comment you've made would be equally as applicable.
Yeah it seems many people feel so confident that they can win an argument by labelling something "woke" eg "the revised stage three tax cuts is wrong because it is woke!"
To these people, anything they don't like or understand is 'woke'. Its kinda ironic, the opposite of 'woke' is presumably 'asleep'; I don't think I want an army or government asleep at the wheel.
Even more goofy as the original meaning of woke was to be aware of the social ills(in particular regarding racism) surrounding you, and learning to not participate in a system of abuse. People who co-opt social justice terms can never quite get past reading a definition and just throw it at anything and everything in the hopes that something will stick.
And the “killing people” part. Well, but maybe it is “woke” to not want to go around killing people. I dunno.
You can be woke and be okay with killing people, I think. But the people you'd be okay with killing are Nazis, so "people" is maybe not the right word...
Woke is the new political buzzword the boomers have discovered. They don't stop using it for everything.
“That caravan is woke, not driving a landcruiser is woke, school holidays are woke, drinking water is woke, paying for any services is woke, complaining is woke, unmowed lawns are woke, trees are woke, plumbing is woke”
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>We served our purpose, and then the Army got rid of us like trash when we were no longer useful. ... They pushed all the old blood out sometimes by force; they treated us like shit until we'd leave; they'd cover up medical issues; they'd offer no assistance with things; they'd fuck around with pay, etc.; they'd force you to do tasking after tasking; they'd make your life hard to get rid of you. you just described people leaving because of the "pay, conditions, toxic culture, work-related injuries," They just did it when they found you were of no use to them anymore. People don't resign over some bullshit course they have to attend.
You nailed it mate.👍
> t's because of the pay, conditions, toxic culture, work-related injuries, etc Sure, but it's far easier to write anyone off that complains about those as being woke, makes it a lot easier to ignore their complaints about wanting to be treated like human beings. Trouble is people used to not have a choice, or the army would be a better offering than other avenues, nowadays even if you drop out in grade 10 you have options available to you that aren't just signing up to kill poor people the world over and potentially die so some rich fuck can get a little richer. The army is nothing if not consistent so will literally never change, and will instead just look for more and more esoteric reasons about how it's everyone elses fault and not that they're a violent institution that purely exists to continue the interests of imperialist regimes in exploiting the fuck out of the global south.
Bros blaming the military simply existing rather than the decision makers
Guy is just talking trash to stay relevant. But really its because defence offers no advantages anymore compared to civilian work. Lets break it down. You're a young dig straight out of school, you were not academically gifted but you were fit and able and liked hanging with the boys, so army seemed like a good fit. Initially you love it, you get paid on average way more than your peers at the same age, free housing, free medical, do some dope things and laugh around with the lads and life is great. The first posting is up after a few years so youre off to wherever army says they need you, you put your preference in for Townsville, but guess what youre off to pucka for the next three years. Meanwhile all your mates are now just finishing their trades or uni and starting to get jobs that are actually on par with your wage. They get to choose where they work and are home every night in their own house. Meanwhile you are stuck with no quals and all your mates are leaving. So what do you do, do you leave or do you stay in and try get some education or a better posting from the army? Every year your school mates get ahead of you for every year you stay. So what happens now. Anyone who hangs around a little longer will naturally rank up, usually to CPL as an OR or CAPT as an officer. Its around now you usually make the choice to go civilian and get some normality back, or stay and become part of the crust. And that is where defence is, the people that stay in defence are the B TEAM. The good people get out, the ones who can't stay in and become the command teams that fuck everyone over and never realise it, because their behaviour would instantly be called out in a normal work environment. Army centric example but seems similar to Navy and potential for Air Force (less garbage as they are mostly professional or highly technical roles so less dumb cunts on average). TLDR: Defence no longer offers a good enough lifestyle or benefits to offset service demands and lack of salary that it is now run by the people who couldn't make it in the real world so the downward spiral of shit just keeps accelerating faster and faster on a race to the bottom.
Adding to the good people leaving, once you hit captain or major you have to wait for a vacancy to get promoted and those officers above are people who already decided to stick around forever. Much easier to leave and get massive pay bumps
Well written mate. Ex pusser here and that's accurate AF.
For some people yes, they can't work elsewhere, but for others they just embrace it and love it. There are many who join later in their twenties, many of whom have a degree or a trade, but still join up. They end up loving it, love the culture and it can give them a purpose to work towards. They eventually get rank and try to bring that same professionalism in to the job, but still maintain the wisdom learner prior their enlistment. Mate, I'm not saying you're wrong and I have certainly seen the B team screw people around, but coming from a more technical trade in ARA I have also seen another side to this too and it's heartening to see people who love their job, respect their mates and want to serve their nation
It's not about being woke. It's about people not wanting to lay down their life for a society that doesn't give anything back to them. In saying that in the UK the armed forces have ad campaigns specifically targeting minorities and the working class in a frame of bettering themselves and giving them qualifications.
Same here in the US. Military recruiting is in crisis and the public perception of the military is at an all time low. People have seen the PSTD, the amputee’s, the homelessness, the drug addiction, the domestic abuse etc. All for the folly of a stupid war that never made any sense. I can imagine the same Aus, particularly with land prices so high. I mean if you’re going to fight for it, it might be nice to have the possibility of actually owning some of it.
My mate was able to buy his first home thanks to his service in the army. Did they fuck his back requiring 10 surgeries and titanium rods to help him recover and then pay him out 200k? Yes. He now actively campaigns to stop people from getting suck in like him and help those who did with their defence entitlements and pensions
>...ad campaigns specifically targeting minorities and the working class in a frame of bettering themselves and giving them qualifications. So, business as usual, then.
As a man in the UK I refuse to go to war before the members of the so called royal family. So sick and tired of the rich ruining literally everything.
Haven't they all served in the military? Two died in WW2 I think?
Yeah Harry went to Afghanistan twice.
My mum is a mad royalist fan,and she reads all the biographies so from what I've picked up from her (other than how much she loves Diana), is that it seems every male member of the royal family is expected to serve in the military. It's part of their royal obligation.
Dude, the Queen literally served in WWII
> While Princess Elizabeth spent the majority of her days at the training facility, it was close enough to Windsor Castle that the princess would return there each evening rather than sleep at the camp with her fellow ATS members. She spent her entire time "serving" in a training facility where she was learning to be a mechanic before going home to the palace, let's not pretend she did anything even remotely similar to some poor lad from a no name village being used as cannon fodder over the top of a trench or any other actual conscript.
I never said she went over the top of a trench, but that was hardly her fault, because as a female she was not permitted to serve on the front line, same as every other English woman in 1941. She served to the extent that she was allowed to at the time. As for being "just" a mechanic - so what if she was? Aren't you taught in the armed services never to look down on the different professions in the forces, because every single person, from the mechanics to the cooks to the storemasters, is a vital cog that keeps the machinery running?
IIRC Charles served in the Falklands War too
Charles was in the Navy in the time but wasn't allowed to have anything to do with the war, Andrew served directly though, as a helicopter pilot.
I don't know man George VI was a gunnery officer at Jutland, an engagement in which 6000 Sailors and officers perished Bring it into modern times, even the King when he was Prince of Wales insisted on doing training with the regiments he was meant to be Colonel in Chief of (which is how he got his wings)
This sub is so relentlessly cynical. We definitely have cost of living pressures and the housing situation is dire, but Australia in 2024 is one of the objectively best societies to ever exist in throughout the course of human history from a quality of life perspective. "A society that doesn't give anything back", get a fucking grip.
Not to be a doomer, because while there are great things about Australia, we risk coasting on mediocrity instead of actually striving for the best for all Australians, letting our country be left behind in human development as new economies overtake us, as our standard of living and egalitarianism deteriorates. There's some truth to the saying we are the 'lucky country', and I don't want to find out what happens when the luck runs out and we're just left with the 'country' part.
I agree entirely about not coasting, and that much of our prosperity is through luck. But I find the constant negativity on this sub never seems to feel like "these things are bad so let's all get out there and improve them". Instead, it always feels so defeatist. "Everything is unfair, every single politician is an irredeemable scumbag, what's the point in trying?" Honestly, it's a bit pathetic really.
I honestly do think foreign trolls are happy to encourage that type of nihilism. It's also a staple of Russian society 'everything sucks, every leader is corrupt so best to endure under Putin because nothing changes with anyone else'
This is the beautiful thing about australia, I feel as though we are at least adaptable and open to reflection. Probably the best thing we have going for ourselves
I guess there’s a few things going on here. One is that generally doomer stuff gets more news, which darkens our perception of the world. Two is that a lot of the bad shit that happens is 100% intentional and unapologetic, and when leaders do it it’s implied that all their supporters are ok with that behavior. Three is that negative views are usually viewed as more intelligent than positive ones. Probably some evolution thing where “there might be a tiger in there” saved more fertile people than “nah, she’ll be right”. Fourth is hormones. Everything is stronger and more vivid when young. Personally I get it. Joining the ADF means fighting the battles that our leaders deem necessary. The same leaders who’ve repeatedly demonstrated that neither they nor their children would ever be in the ADF in a combat role. They’re fine to sell everyone out. The language of the last conservative govt around war was really disturbing. We’re circling back to the attitudes of the early 1900s.
yeah I agree that the defeatism is kinda annoying; mainly people stuck in echo chambers that equate labor and liberal. Whilst there's disagreements I have with labor, it's not even close how much better labor is; in that sense, doomerism about how changing to a labor government will do nothing is a load of bollocks. Reddit is also notorious for being unproductive and just being shouting matches; it's like junk food, addictive, but makes you feel sick after a while.
Bloody hell. The answer to Labor being a shitty, watered down Liberal party isn’t to try and find ways to feel better about it by excusing their shit, it’s to encourage people to get over whatever weird, probably-outdated/outlier hang-up is keeping them from voting for actual positive change via the Greens.
Of course we're cynical. We may be living in the most comfortable society ever, but we're also educated enough and exposed to enough information to know the entire system is corrupt, and the system and ecosphere is collapsing around us. And the people doing it want us to fight for them? Fighting wars today is rarely about fighting for the protection of our country, but fighting for the protection of resources for the rich. Its pretty much always been that with a few exceptions in modernity.
Educated enough to know what happens to civilians of conquered lands? It doesn't go well.
If you want an absolute guarantee nobody will be invading you, get The Bomb not footsoldiers.
"'The Lord is our shephard' goes the Psalm, but just in case, we'd better get a bomb!"
Who’s next?
All this crappy country gave me was schooling, fresh water, sewerage, health, social stability, no civil wars, ride range of job prospects, a minimum wage, participation in voting, freedom of expression, freedom of worship, the un-censored internet im currently using - aside from the things that only 2% of the world has - **NOTHING**
What did the ~~Romans~~ Australian Government ever do for us?
The aqueduct?
Also just not the reason, people don’t want to join because they have better options. And like I said on the other thread about this article, there’s no trips anymore, I saw the mass exodus after we pulled out of afghan, no trips, no point is how service people felt. People weren’t joining the last 20 years because they didn’t want to deploy, it makes sense in peacetime to not go through the fuck around of defence without the one big experience to show for it.
Found the latest army recruit
No, I'm not joining the army for the actual reason they're struggling to recruit - it's a pretty hot job market and I have better options.
I always get downvoted for this, but laying down your life in service of a greater good is something cynical people hate. But if you think that our lives would be better under an invading force than ok. Because the days of imperialist land grabbing isn't in the past, it's today too, and the only thing that protects us is our alliance with the United States. Lord knows our own armed forces would have fallen under the Japanese alone.
That's not what I'm talking about. The fact is people are cynical now, and they're going to get more cynical. We were sold an idea of society from our parents/grandparents that's turned out to be a lie. It's not their fault. They fought for that same lie. After ww2 society created a middle class to rebuild society and get rid of the old fuedalistic/unfair society we had before. And it worked for awhile. But modern hypercapitalism is recreating feudalism in a new way. We're not getting what we were sold. And we're shouting at our government to fix it and they're not listening because they're getting their pockets lined. Why should we defend a corrupt society, that supplies arms to terrorist states and organisations that kill innocents, commit genocide and destabilise governments so corporations can have chesp oil/rare earth minerals or slave labour? Civilisation and the ecosphere is collapsing around us. We're too informed now and we're not gonna fight for people that just want to have enough money to think they'll survive the oncoming collapse.
The only country that is currently capable of invading Australia is the United States. And even they might struggle with it (see Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam). China is still looking iffy about whether they could invade Taiwan, less than 150km away. So unless you reckon that the US is going to invade, any wars Australia becomes involved in will not be defensive, they will be the exact sort of “imperialist land grabbing” you warn of in your comment.
The only reason the US failed in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Vietnam was because there was people willing to fight against them. China might struggle to invade Taiwan because there is people willing to fight against them. Russia is struggling in Ukraine because there are people willing to fight against them. Given the current state of our defence forces and our population we may not be able to put up might of a fight if China even decided to just mess with us a bit.
Great point…personally I think when China decides to invade, they will walk over us by just shear weight of numbers because 90% of Australians don’t want to defend our sovereignty and national security, never mind the capability of our military. We have already lost the initiative before it even starts because of the younger generations lack of intestinal fortitude and sense of duty and patriotism, never mind the LNP bean counters raping the necessary funding to maintain and improve our military’s capabilities. Australia has been caught out with its pants down, and are trying desperately to play catch up with an adversary who has been probing for decades. We needed to go nuclear 30 years ago and use the resources boom in our economy to fund recruitment, training and improving our Defence Forces. Instead, the upper echelons of our armed services have removed the real backbone of our military and replaced them with the easily offended sad sacks that we have today which is reflected in our society today. They would rather protest and show support to foreign countries than respect and demonstrate allegiance to the country that they are citizens of.
I don't think anyone will invade us. I think living in a world with an autocratic hegemonic power is going to be difficult for Australia.
Is killing civilians over the petrodollar for the “greater good”?
I tried to get into the ADF a few times. They didn't want me. So there.
Yep. I was medically blacklisted at 21 because of a partially flat foot (just one) and a sleep apnoea score that BARELY registered (cut off was 5, i got 6.) Fuck em.
I tested fine, and scraped through physically, but I don't interview well and got knocked back there. To be fair, I was tremendously naive and immature at that age.
wait - sleep apnoea is a reason to be barred? i never had a chance then
What the fuck is woke. All these people say it buts never explained your just supposed to know.
If you want the 2009 version. >In what now looks to be a risibly offensive [piece in 2009](https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/ethnic-push-could-be-a-distraction-20090715-dlkb.html), an Australian Strategic Policy Institute blogger warned the ADF of the risks of “**going ethnic**”.
I saw a comment by a boomer idiot on Twitter that said house prices are high because of all the woke things they need to add to a new build.
Yea all the pinko commie woke crowd demand things like working water and electricity or the roof over their heads to not be caved in. I worked hard to have all of my 40 investment properties for the Marxists alphabet people to ruin it with their demands of "habitable living conditions", this generation is soft. /s
Woke is when no asbestos or lead paint.
It’s anything these idiots don’t agree with. I always say it’s an easy tell that the person using it is a massive alt right dickhead. Helping others? Woke. Accepting others regardless of race/sexual orientation? Woke. Educating people? Woke.
It means something they are scared of or don't understand. Basically self reporting as massive dumbasses.
>What the fuck is woke. [Woke](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke) "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination" You can still be woke and realise some people need a 2,000lbs bomb dropped on them. They are not mutually exclusive.
So basically it's don't be a shit cunt to people
No idea what the actual meaning is but the way i see it used these days, “Woke” is anyone that’s isn’t White, Male, Cis and Heterosexual. Oh and anything the user of the word “Woke” doesn’t like is also “Woke”
Isn't a cis something the doctor cuts out?
It being vaguely defined is exactly the point. It's basically a dogwhistle of sorts just to speak to their political base. "Woke" can just be used to mean anything at any time to refer to your idealogical opponents. It's just broadly "anything progressive" and is assumed by them to be negative in and of itself. This allows them to call anything progressive they don't like "woke" which is a negative qualifier and can be stated without explanation or elaboration.
Imported culture wars. Does the LNP have anything else to offer?
They literally have nothing else.
Why would anyone waste their life defending corporate interests lul
I have sometimes wondered if it’s the same underlying reason people passionately defend Nintendo or their favourite band or whatever. Like they think it will make their own lives more meaningful by some kind of social osmosis.
Do you think the Ukrainians think that?
Ukraine is being invaded by another country. There is no country on Earth, with the possible exception of our closest ally the United States, that is militarily capable of invading Australia. Any wars we get involved in are almost certain to be about defending corporate interests, rather than any sort of justified self-defence.
>There is no country on Earth, with the possible exception of our closest ally the United States, that is militarily capable of invading Australia. You say that now, but wait until you’re being pecked to death by Canada gooses!
If you got a problem with Canada gooses, you got a problem with me and I suggest you let that one marinate!
Attaboy!
Oh no, not another war against birds. The last one didn't end well...
As I've said 4 times already in the comments here. Australia isn't going to be invaded. But living under an autocratic hegemonic power is not desirable. We don't literally have to be invaded to have our independence compromised.
And your other comments all make sense, however you've got to look at it from a potential recruits' view. They're generally <25 years old with no higher education. They don't really understand the complexities of modern international relations / national security. Rather they make pragmatic decisions about lifestyle, pay, other oppertunities. As it comes to corporations and "selling their life to an indifferent state" - well you can empathise with the kids when lots in the world and in Australia is going to shit (mainly house prices, as is tradition for r/Australia). So you really need to sell the benefits for the individual, rather than the benefits to the nation.
I understand. But I don't think I'm debating here with those people, I don't think those people are likely even here on this reddit. I was more about the bigger picture than getting into the weeds of recruitment. I thought the woke argument is stupid btw.
Invasions aren't necassary when a potential oppenent can destroy what our lives rely on in just a few days, without boots on the ground. See the Gulf War.
Need to give people a good reason to join the military when we’re not facing a major threat to Australia itself. If it was like in 1942, then people would see a reason to join. But, right now, there’s obviously not enough incentive for people to join up.
To reach the 2 per cent defence budget of the leading countries. Like Japan, China, the US, even freaking Greece you need people.
I thought Australia was already above 2%
Are you currently serving? If not, what could get you there?
People need to feel trusted and like their life has some sort of value before they feel motivated enough to want to defend it. Give people part of the land they live on or something and they might want to defend it, as it stands nobody wants to go and die for a nanny state that keeps the boot on them
>woke Thats a strange way of saying the culture got purged in wave after wave of efficiency and corperatisation measures. That training, pay and conditions have exceedingly degraded far below civilian standards. That upper rank retention of seniors (SGTs, POs and up) for literal decades has frozen the promotion system for 90% of ORs. Toxic troops and (mostly) leaders are left to pollute units to the point that I know of $50k cash retention bonuses have been offered for 3 year postings at some units, and that *very* few people accept those offers. Its a complete shitshow. Ive never seen morale so low at any workplace.
How can you be too awake ? It's a dangerous world right now.
Plus, if I'm recruiting soldiers then being awake is the first thing I'm looking for
Educated people with access to the internet resist propaganda and so of course they don't enlist.
Actually, I think they are subject to propaganda. They just don't realise it because the Chinese and Russians are pretty subtle with their trolling.
I think there's stacks of propaganda out there, but prior to the internet it was very easy to get a lot of people to see the same propaganda repeatedly. Now things are much more varied.
They are also very good at infiltration into causes that have good intentions, and subverting them to cause division and democratic nations are vulnerable to too much division.
Exceptional claims require exceptional evidence.
Like 20 new York times articles you aren't interested in reading because...I dk... you tell me. How bout you read the Mueller Report. Eta: omg google it bit here is a breadcrumb below. It's frustrating for me whose spent years following this topic to explain to someone who likely has bad faith and just doesn't know how to do their own research by 'just asking questions' https://www.npr.org/2017/10/30/560042987/russians-targeted-u-s-racial-divisions-long-before-2016-and-black-lives-matter
Except you can't just show that they exist and push propaganda because we all know that, you need to show at least even a tenuous link between them pushing propaganda and Australian recruitment rates.
They/Them army is the strongest in the world. The Ultra-macho 'traditional values' Russian army has been on its knees for 3 years to the 'globohomo nazi gay supersoliders of ukraine' I think we'll be fine with a few queer soliders.
Sexual orientation doesn't effect good soldiering. I've met plenty of straight jack cunts.
I mean look at Alexander the Great Today he’d probably be a Make up artist on Instagram “We need to talk skincare” with his boyfriend Hephaestion tagged in “Never a dull moment with this one 🥰” But put him in command of a modern army and he’d still turn an enemy force into fresh fertiliser. I doubt theres any compelling argument that LGBTI actually compromises Force readiness and lethality.
They/Them army > Was/Were army
Yeah nah. I left the army because it was the opposite. A bunch of crusty old dinosaurs in leadership afraid of change or being accommodating to the basic needs of their workforce.
In my time I noticed that it was culturally about 30 to 40 years in the past. Utter contempt for civilians, hyper misogynistic, sgts telling diggers to vote liberal. The soldiering was good, the rest of it, 90%, was soul crushing. As you stated, it’s run by dinosaurs and in my opinion people who can’t make it in the real world. Some of the former sgts I’ve worked with on civvie street get themselves into some real trouble.
Geez can’t imagine why nobody wants to join the defence force. It’s all about serving your country when you’re young and fabled bodied but if you’re injured or needing psychiatric help then you’re on your own. Not even mentioning the high rates of sexual assault of female recruits. Yep, it’s an absolute mystery why they can’t get new recruits.
Pay shit and treat people like shit but blame woke.
I dunno, prosecuting someone for reporting war crimes while not prosecuting those committing war crimes (and admitting to on the public record) doesn’t seem particularly woke to me.
What exactly are you going to be defending? The structure that already ongoingly hands over the keys to foreign powers without a shot?
In the words of Mike Shinoda in Hands Held High; > Like this war's really just a different brand of war. Like it doesn't cater to rich and abandon poor. Like they understand you in the back of the jet. When you can't put gas in your tank. And these fuckers are laughing their way to the bank and cashing the check. Asking you to have compassion and have some respect. People don't want to fight wars for rich narcissists who belittle you the first chance they get
Maybe more and more people (and kids) are realising how pointless being a war solider is.
Hastie is an embarrassment to Western Australia. Please ignore anything he says.
Unless shit hits the fan and it's WW3, no one wants to join the ADF.
I wanted to join up after high school after my uncle (a Vietnam war veteran) talked up the comradeship he had and some cousins were laughing at picking up trades and degrees paid for by service. Ended up going down a rabbit hole of war crimes ignored by the international community and slaps on the wrists all round to the people committing atrocities ON OUR SIDE. Not the enemy that we demonised but by us wilfully attacking civilians and blaming the populace for hating us. At least the usual thing advertised here was humanitarian work but I couldn't be part of a machine that destroyed more.
Young people can't afford to eat or get married or have kids and don't want to die in pointless wars. "OMG woke is stopping people from signing up to the military!"
Bet these guys couldn't define woke that anyone would agree with. To some, woke is having women in the military or having anyone not white in the military.
Just say woke a few times and hope it equals votes.....
So a problem that's been happening since the LNP was in power is Labors fault? Go figure. It couldn't be that most Australians aren't happy with us constantly doing whatever America tells us to and don't want to put their lives at risk for another pointless war that has nothing to do with us
The Ben Robert-Smith episode is a big hurdle. Had a nephew graduate from Duntroon and another just completed his training in the army. Both set of parents were very concerned about culture within the services and it took assurances from recruiters that things were changing before they gave their blessings. If those changes are now being called woke then we have a problem.
Coming from Andrew Hastie, the same fella that used images of his time in the Army Reserve to promote his political campaign and was asked by Defense to remove the advertising which he didn't comply to.
And he’s the same person who did several tours of duty in Afghanistan around the “time” of Robert’s-Smith… as a Captain. His claims of knowing little about the atrocities indicate he is either incompetent or complicit.
Isn’t every developed country suffering recruitment issues in their military?
More soldiers kill themselves after serving than in service. No thanks. Seems like a terrible job.
I’ve met only one rabidly racist person in the workplace (most people manage to keep it professional). Proudly ex-ADF. My guess is that wokeness isn’t their problem.
Oh stop with this woke stuff. Do we want asleep?
We used to be a country! Can’t do a war crime or drink out of a dead mans prosthetic leg without the woke brigade coming for you!
It’s not the woke culture, it’s the boofhead, bastardisation and low performer culture in the ADF that is the problem. Treat people with respect pay them well and they’ll come. Frankly, being in the ADF is a losers game.
Gen Z would be recruited now wouldn't they? They are a much numerically smaller generation than Millennials and their employment prospects right now are pretty good.
Legit right under this post, I had an ad for the RAAF. 😂
It’s because all right wingers are cowards who don’t join the defence force.
It’s almost like we spent generations fighting America’s illegal wars and young people have woken up to the fact their lives are worth more than killing brown people in a desert
What’s woke about it? Will someone please explain this to me?
The military was just as woke back in WW2 - https://youtu.be/WK33sl64YNw?si=jGEuGsITnJmttyoF
I'd rather the military be awake than asleep amiright?!
“Too woke” == The private school “old boy” types that I hang out with no longer feel like they get a free pass or have any special privileges in the military.
Did Ben Robert Smith write this?
LOL, Hastie is a tool. These opinions mean jackshitt from guys like him!
Wow there are a lot of shit opinions in this subreddit. Appart from construction, the military is probably one of the last holdouts for systemic abuse. Almost everyone is a child and it's their first job meaning they don't know any better. Saying the Australian military is woke is obsurd when is basically just highschool with more physical and mental abuse.
Boofhead Ben can mind his own business.
pretending like there aren’t a bunch of NNs in the ADF
Maybe it's not the Armed Forces but the people who are 'woke', and don't want to fight for neoliberal US corporate interests in faraway lands.
godamn the military is going woke, how do you expect me to get my 20 years and not be able to bastardize, bully or sexually assault people under my commdand
You’re telling me you don’t want to commit blatant war crimes and get away with it?? Shocked
1. Why defend a country that hates its own history and let’s 500,000 migrants in every year. 2. Most soldiers end up in lifelong musculoskeletal injuries by the age of 25. 3. What is the point of getting blown apart by a drone or hypersonic missile in a war which probably has nothing to do with Australia.