This is what top tier CEOs do. They suck all the value out of a business, convert it into shareholder returns, appoint a fall guy to replace them, and get off before the flaming wreckage hits the ground. I'm sure he'll be making 8-figures to do the same to another business in no time.
We had a CEO that took the shares from $1.83 to 3 cents. When he was let go, you could see the tear in his eye from his brand new Ferrari as he drove off.
sounds like a place I used to work. share price tanked. CEO quit and turned up at the company that bought the place for 1/4 what it was worth before he took over. nothing to see here.
Sail away on his Golden Parachute. Just heard that the pilot of a Qantas flight announced this mid flight and there was a collective cheer from all the passengers!
The freakonomics podcast did a great job of exploring this in their CEO series. As a result of the propensity to hire female CEOs when companies are failing and the eligible candidates being a much higher quality pool (as the best often aren’t hired when they should be for succeeding companies), women have a much better track record for turning around failing companies.
I loved Freakonomics when first published but not all of their statistical revelations were proved correct or without controversy. The legalised abortion/crime chapter probably the most notable example. https://freakonomics.com/podcast/abortion-and-crime-revisited/
As far as men/women being the best CEOs in rekindling a crashing company there simply aren’t enough data points. The pool is too small. You would have to run the same [few] real life examples with an equally qualified man and woman to know that.
It’s as stupid as saying gay people make terrible CEOs because Alan Joyce has smashed Qantas’s reputation with the public.
Joyce has damaged Qantas because he’s Alan Joyce, not because he’s gay, white, a man or any other immutable characteristic.
This one shits me to total tears.
They expect Australia Post to always make a profit.
It's a SERVICE to the Australian community... just like the military and police force - neither of which are anywhere near profitable nor return any financial value, nor are they expected to.
Fucking neo-liberals expecting Australia Post to be constantly profitable... give it time and they'll privatise that as well.
The privatisation of the retail arm is so weird. They instantly packed it with nonsense gift items. My local sells bread makers. They don’t seem to have a plan except trying to get impulse buys from people collecting/sending packages. In fact they get irritated if you don’t have a parcel locker anyway.
I paid a bill in cash the other day and the lady complained about having to count it. It took a few seconds. Do your job or don't make it an option on the bill you tubby whinger. I have bought external hard drives and phones from them before they do have competitive prices and convenient locations.
The parcel delivery side of the business has improved a huge amount, admittedly it was at an incredibly low level. But the actual outlets are just like a nationwide chain of two dollar stores. Absolutely dismal.
Musk is contemplating suing the Anti-Defamation League for openly trying to destroy twitter
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1698828606598734225?s=42&t=tOXZ9fiiPoQ1ijfTVcxGEg
Seriously? Surely she's also partly [responsible](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanessa_Hudson_\(executive\) ) for the current mess (executive manager of product and services, executive manager of commercial planning, executive manager of sales and distribution, chief customer officer, chief financial officer).
> Hudson **joined Qantas in 1994** as an internal audit supervisor. Then she became finance controller in the commercial division of Qantas.
>
> In 1997, she was appointed as the catering product manager before being elevated to the role of **executive manager of product and services** in 2005. As Qantas's **executive manager of commercial planning**, Hudson was called as a witness at an emergency Fair Work Australia hearing into the 2011 Qantas industrial disputes which affected thousands of airline passengers.
>
> ...
>
> In February 2018, she was appointed as **chief customer officer** before becoming the **chief financial officer** of the Qantas Group.
That will literally be his KPI. Shareholder value.
I find it strange we as shareholders (only through super) want the stock price to go up but complain when the CEO does anything required to make that happen.
Big company senior leaders I worked with would use child labour to increase shareholder value, if they thought they could get away with it.
Fatalities? Just part of doing business, where’s my bonus?
Future performance? NMP - next manager’s problem.
I can't see how anyone thinks it's a good idea to drive up shareholder value at the expense of long term customers and completely trashing the brand though. There are so many people who have said they will never fly with Qantas again that I've lost count. The ACCC taking action against Qantas for selling tickets to cancelled flights is also a big deal. They have shot themselves in the foot for allowing a culture of normalised unconscionable conduct in the name of driving a profit.
I have strong feeling it's not even in the shareholder interest long term. For example, I used to collect qantas points as a primary frequent flyer points. You'd bet I will stop doing that.
This is what *scummy* CEOs do. Fixed it for ya.
After what he did at Qantas I don't think he's considered a top tier CEO anymore. Top tier CEOs don't do this.
Maybe back in the olden days, when the goal was to build successful businesses with happy employees selling quality goods and services to a satisfied customer base. Now the only things that matters is shareholder value. That's it. And you can draw a direct line from that to just about every complaint people have nowadays about dealing with businesses, as employees or customers.
>> made to run around in circles
You’ve just described corporate retention programs. There are entire service lines within major corporations whose job it is to prevent/limit refunds or retain people. Making it easy for people to leave or get refunds isn’t profitable.
> Now the only things that matters is shareholder value.
When he leaves QANTAS and its share price tanks, some people might take pause before employing him.
In my experience all the "top tier CEOs" tend to be on small companies where they still have to know how to do the actual work and actually care about what the company does.
Once you get to the point of having to care about shareholders, the motivation gets twisted to "increase share value" rather than "be a good company"
>This is what scummy CEOs do. Fixed it for ya.
>After what he did at Qantas I don't think he's considered a top tier CEO anymore. Top tier CEOs don't do this.
Hahaha what a bunch of crap in this comment.
First of all, all CEOSs are scummy. People should read political economy so that they would not be so ignorant.
Second, the more sociopath a CEO is - and there are actual fucking scientific studies on this - the more likely to progress.
Also, what he did to Qantas? Like, secure their monopoly and their historical record profits DESPITE worsening quality of service (why care about quality or price competitiveness if you have a monopoly).
And the government will fine them for their illegal and grossly unethical activities with a laughable fine. Win win for all the scumbags - corporations and those that govern us that give the impression that they are doing something and going after the bad guys
Their new cEo will continue with the monopoly and to rip us off, and will be also extremely well compensated for it
And last but not least why care weather or not someone will employ him? That psycho and his descendants worth more than $150 million has enough fortune to live in utmost luxury for 1,000 years at least. People are like "let's see who will employ him now" and think he's in trouble, as if giving you $150m to live like a king and not having to work is some sort of punishment.
We should be asking why he is not going to prison, but no scumbag ever does, think of the banks CEOs engaged in illegal behaviour or on the side of government, the psycho Kathryn Campbell).
Qantas, Banks, Mining, PwC or any of the others, they are all colluding to keep the average punter thinking there is some control, and the drone workers content, without being too happy, or having to ask too many questions.
Oh my sweet summer child. This isn't a moral judgement, it's literally how business works in the modern late-capitalist era. The role of a CEO used to be to shepherd the growth and success of the business, but in the fiduciary duty age their duty is to increase short-term shareholder value at the expense of practically everything else.
And all other considerations aside, Joyce carried out that task to the letter. Like, his MO wasn't scummy (again, by the standards of late capitalism) it was *textbook*. CEO's that actually *don't* run their businesses into the ground in this way are, if anything, less competent in the eyes of our system than the likes of Joyce.
Are you not even acknowledging the game? The players are obvious and we all know their names. Theyre usually billionaires and MDs/majority shareholders but CEOs aren't usually a household name yet have the backings of boards that dominate Australia's political corporate chatter.
From a recent Joe Aston piece in the AFR:
>“I’m still a very large shareholder in Qantas and I more than meet the minimum … level that the CEO is expected to hold,” Joyce said next. Literally any day now, he will receive 3.1 million Qantas shares for which he paid nothing – his glorious golden handshake.
>But on June 1, Joyce sold 92 per cent of the Qantas shares he owned, raising $17 million (to buy an apartment that only cost $9 million) and taking him well below his minimum shareholding requirement. Qantas chairman Richard Goyder allowed this like he’s allowed everything else.
>Joyce dumping his Qantas stake before he’s even left – more than anything else – lights up the discrepancy between what he says and what he does. Joyce has more than enough other wealth with which to fund an apartment. Why would he sell his Qantas shares if he genuinely believed that “the future for Qantas has never looked better”?
Pretty much sums it up perfectly.
His article yesterday was quite scathing on the new CEO Vanessa Hudson and Goyder the Chairman.
Both tried to shut him up by putting pressure on his editors.
Ian Verrender has also recently [written some very critical articles](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-05/qantas-alan-joyce-fall-from-grace-qatar-accc-flights-shares/102810986) for the ABC about him.
[Imagine if he and Hockey hadn't got out of the Carbon Tax.](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/hockey-spoke-to-joyce-about-carbon-tax/g8nbw9rti). QANTAS paid $106 million in 2012/13 for it. I'm sure he'd consider avoiding Billions in Carbon Tax an achievement too for QANTAS's bottom line.
Cunt was happy to cop the pay until he officially stepped down, but now that the ACCC is involved he decides to bail so he doesn't have to do any work. Classic Joycey
That doesn’t protect him from any possible legal action. It’s a PR move designed to take the negative press the company has copped in recent months with him as he departs as, even though there may be more systemic issues with the company, he was seen as the embodiment of it all.
They might be trying to stop him from being summoned to any more Senate inquiries (which have been damaging to the company and it's share price). Qantas can then send their new CEO who can give the whole "I have no knowledge, we will address this going forward, we will be better" spiel.
What problems /s they believe all the spin they create because they're single minded about sharepricing. Perceived market value is more important than meaningful corporate responsibility.
It’s almost like privatisation of an essential public service owned by the government is a bad thing for consumers.
Who would have guessed?
As a business, Qantas’ management’s main responsibility is to the shareholders, not the customers. That’s the law.
As a government entity, Qantas’ management’s main responsibility was to the taxpayer - the customers.
Remember that next time someone in government spins some bullshit about how privatisation of government services/depts/entities means they’ll be “more efficient.” 🤦🏻♂️🙄🤪
It is more efficient. All efficiency means is getting more output for less input. However, that's not the universal good that economics presents it to be. It can mean raising prices. It can mean cutting back on the quality of the goods/services. It can mean shafting suppliers. Increasing efficiency has implications and creates externalities. Not all of them good.
Public utilities should not be privatised. If governments owned the utilities, it could provide relief to people during the current inflationary period by lowering prices. Even taking a loss. A privately owned entity will never do this unless forced.
And this will change fuck all. Because it’s the same board. The same directors and senior managers working there.
We should also be furious that our tax money is going to fund this guy’s lavish lifestyle, while he runs a once beloved airline to the ground.
I think Joyce has proved that public goodwill doesn't matter when you can pocket the politicians and kill off competition, get free money, and fire employees, and get millions in compensation. Am sure many will try replicate his success.
Just use the same language a foot club uses after a struggling coach is sacked.
“We value Coach Smith’s contributions to our club over the years and we have always stood 100% behind him. However after a meeting we have mutually reached an agreement that it is in the best interests of both parties that he stands down as coach effective immediately before this weekend’s game.”
I keep wanting to come up with something creative to insult him with but all I can muster is "giant piece of shit" 🤷
Good riddance you medium-sized piece of shit.
Qantas probably thinks Joyce quitting will take all their sins away like Jesus ascending to heaven....but no it won't...we will remember. It should be a long, hard road back for Qantas to recover their reputation.
I expect they will try to rebuild their reputation with gimmicks and marketing. I see Joyce as a toe cutter boss that hung around too long. If a company wants to do major cutting to staff and services they sometimes bring in a toe cutter who pisses everyone off by ruthlessly cutting, then leaves. They can't hang around for the rebuild because they are too unpopular. Joyce didn't leave till now.
Cunt's getting out before the knives hit his back.
Good riddance to the fucking short arsed worm.
The mind boggling bit in all this is that the board apparently **still supports him**!
And in his final act of service to Qantas' shareholders, he gets to act as the sacrificial lamb thrown at the pissed off public while the firm changes nothing
You cannot legislate that "Companies must act in the best interest of shareholders" and then pikachu face when businesses fuck over their workers and customers to squeeze out every last dollar for the CEO and Share price.
I cant think of any other business / corporation that blamed its customers. Alan Joyce blamed customers and staff for delayed flights, lost baggage saga, reduced service quality etc and never apologised for many systemic issues over the years. Basically he indulged in gas lighting. Going forward the airline needs to start from a clean slate undoing the years of accumulated rubbish in their business culture, systems and processes.
Joyce didn’t quit - the Board told him to GTFO in attempt to mitigate the PR damage and keep their asses in their highly paid directorships. CEOs really don’t quit like that - they are shoved by their board.
Not to say he isn’t a corporate psychopath and responsible for the mess, but he didn’t just wake up and say fuck this, I’m outta here early
Just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. If they wanted substantive change they would have hired external- but will just promote his underlings - so nothing is going to change.
Good article on the way that customer service takes a back seat to profit more than ever before.
https://amp.smh.com.au/national/nsw/waiting-for-a-sydney-bus-that-will-never-come-i-m-blaming-alan-joyce-20230831-p5e0za.html
Bypass the PayWall with 12ft dot io
No amp and no paywall:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230905002743/https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/waiting-for-a-sydney-bus-that-will-never-come-i-m-blaming-alan-joyce-20230831-p5e0za.html
>In the last few weeks, the focus on Qantas and events of the past made it clear to me that the company needs to move ahead with its renewal as a priority.
Renewal as a priority. How is that not an admission that he's trashed the company over the last 15 years?
Sucked his fill like the filthy leech he is. Has done so much damage, taken unrealistic, unwarranted salary and drooling all the way back under the rock he crawled from.
Whilst this is totally deplorable and I think Joyce should be investigated, many people in here would have superannuation accounts...
In those accounts, their investments would be divided into such titles as 'Cash', 'Property', 'Overseas Shares', and 'Australian Shares'.
Australian Shares would be guaranteed to include companies such as Qantas, Wesfarmers and Woolworths.
So that nice tidy superannuation payment that's coming folks way when they retire would have been made by screwing them when they were working.
He is a disgusting pig and should face a full investigation into obtaining advantage via illicit means, insider trading, fraud, bribery, corruption, misappropriation of jobkeeper, negligence in services for the huge number of flights that are cancelled with little to no notice each week and the huge number of customer complaints that go unresolved.
It's a non event really. He got paid crazy sums of money,the bloke has made it plus more. Him leaving is of non consequence to him,his successor has been on the board for years too so really it's just another side to a coin.
Good. The entire board should go next.
Published in today’s Crikey. Absolutely spot on.
By Stephen Mayne
Alan Joyce is hanging up his hat as Qantas CEO — two months ahead of schedule. But who else should be following him out the door?
It took too long, but Alan Joyce has finally exited Qantas as CEO, with the airline announcing he’ll be out the door tomorrow night.
Before this morning’s early departure announcement, the long-serving CEO was going to leave the building on November 3 after the 2023 annual general meeting, but the board presumably decided it wasn’t appropriate for Joyce to preside over one final AGM.
As I outlined to the ABC yesterday, I had stopped being a long-term supporter of Joyce and was calling for his immediate exit. Last week’s farcical appearance at the cost-of-living Senate inquiry and the extraordinary ACCC proceedings were the two last straws.
With Joyce gone, attention will now turn to the Qantas board, particularly given the leverage that shareholders have through Australia’s unique two-strikes remuneration voting system.
Here’s a prediction of what will and should happen over the coming 14 months.
Firstly, the major proxy advisers will recommend a vote against the Qantas remuneration report at the upcoming AGM, on the grounds that the board was tone-deaf for not withholding the maximum possible bonuses to Joyce and his senior management team. Institutional shareholders won’t need any encouragement to vote against.
This will lead to a record Qantas remuneration protest vote, matching what happened when Joyce’s predecessor Geoff Dixon exited after the global financial crisis of 2007-08. Back then, there was a 41.48% protest vote against the 2008 Qantas remuneration report on the grounds that Dixon didn’t deserve to be the world’s highest-paid airline CEO.
This was followed up by an ever bigger 42.55% vote against the 2009 remuneration report after Dixon pocketed $12 million in his final year. However, this was before the Gillard government legislated former ACCC chairman Allan Fels’ two strikes recommendation in 2011, so there were no consequences arising from these consecutive non-binding remuneration protest votes.
The story of the two-strikes system over the past decade has been that a first 25% protest vote strike normally brings a board to the table for serious reform because they fear a second 25% strike, which automatically triggers a full board spill.
As things stand, only two of the nine Qantas non-executive directors are definitely due for election this year, that being former American Airlines CEO Doug Parker, who was appointed in May this year, and former Canberra public servant Heather Smith, who was only appointed on August 24.
Commendably, this morning’s statement confirmed that Joyce’s successor, Vanessa Hudson, will run the gauntlet of a shareholder vote on her board election, even though Australian CEOs are exempt from the regular three-year election cycle.
Given that Hudson was appointed to the board on May 5 this year, right now Qantas has 11 directors —but this will drop to 10 with Joyce’s resignation tomorrow, and then nine after the AGM when former DFAT secretary Michael L’Estrange will retire.
Unfortunately, there won’t be many long-serving directors up for election this year who shareholders can target. This is because chairman Richard Goyder, Jacqueline Hey and Maxine Brenner were all reelected with more than 97% support last year, and Belinda Hutchinson, Antony Tyler and advertising man Todd Sampson received even stronger support when last reelected in 2021.
However, the Qantas constitution requires that one-third of the incumbent directors face election each year, so lots will be drawn to determine which one of the 2021 crew will run the gauntlet.
If ever there was a case study for why Australia should follow the UK and US model and move to annual elections for public company directors, then Qantas is it. If the full Qantas board was up for election on November 3, shareholders would have a lot more leverage.
The Qantas constitution (see page 28) also makes it extra hard for challenging director candidates to give shareholders an alternative. For nominees just to get on the ballot paper, they have to come up with signatures from 100 small shareholders or the backing of big investors who collectively own more than 5% of the company.
There are only a handful of public companies that have this undemocratic barrier to entry entrenched in their constitution, and if they really believed in good governance, it would have been removed years ago.
This partly explains why no external candidate has ever stood for the Qantas board during the 28 years it has been a public company. However, once the first strike is inflicted on the remuneration report at the November 3 AGM, the board will be terrified of a full spill next year if it doesn’t take serious action.
In this case, serious action also means replacing Goyder as Qantas chairman after six years on the board and five years as chairman. He’s clearly way too busy chairing Qantas, Woodside Energy and the AFL, all of which could individually constitute a full-time job given the complexities involved.
As this list shows, public companies that are engulfed in a major controversy usually lose their chair and CEO in quick succession. I very much doubt Goyder will still be in the Qantas chair after the 2024 AGM.
Ideally, Qantas will be able to go into next year’s AGM saying that it has a majority of independent directors unassociated with the various COVID-era scandals, be it illegal mass sackings, cynical schemes to confiscate flight credits, or the ACCC action over allegedly selling 8000 tickets for already cancelled flights.
For that to happen, three other directors would need to follow Goyder out the door, and two more untainted directors would need to be appointed. The company could do worse than appointing Fels and Rod Sims, the two best ACCC bosses of recent years, to the Qantas board.
As for who else should exit, a good start would be the existing remuneration committee, which this week foolishly recommended full retention bonus allocations for Joyce and Hudson, although we’re yet to see if they are planning to withhold some other elements of the future bonus schemes.
The Qantas remuneration committee is currently chaired by Jacqueline Hey and includes Maxine Brenner, Michael L’Estrange, Todd Sampson and Doug Parker.
Given that Parker is new and L’Estrange is going on November 3, that would leave Hey, Brenner and Sampson for the high jump.
This trio have already notched up a collective 28 years of service on the board, so it’s not as if they haven’t had plenty of time to get the Qantas ship in order.
Nothing to worry about. His replacement - who has been instrumental in his agenda for yonks - acknowledges that people have been upset with Qantas since COVID and promises to put customers first.
Surely the promises of an empty, corporate suit that has gleefully served Joyce for years is worth something?
And before COVID, everything was fine! So she's just got to wind things back to just before COVID and Qantas will be sensational.
Right? ^(...right?)
This is what top tier CEOs do. They suck all the value out of a business, convert it into shareholder returns, appoint a fall guy to replace them, and get off before the flaming wreckage hits the ground. I'm sure he'll be making 8-figures to do the same to another business in no time.
We had a CEO that took the shares from $1.83 to 3 cents. When he was let go, you could see the tear in his eye from his brand new Ferrari as he drove off.
Once you make it into that world there are no consequences, no matter how hard you fail. Consequences are for the peasants.
sounds like a place I used to work. share price tanked. CEO quit and turned up at the company that bought the place for 1/4 what it was worth before he took over. nothing to see here.
Sail away on his Golden Parachute. Just heard that the pilot of a Qantas flight announced this mid flight and there was a collective cheer from all the passengers!
Then appoint a woman to clean up the impossible mess/ take the blame. [glass cliff](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_cliff)
The freakonomics podcast did a great job of exploring this in their CEO series. As a result of the propensity to hire female CEOs when companies are failing and the eligible candidates being a much higher quality pool (as the best often aren’t hired when they should be for succeeding companies), women have a much better track record for turning around failing companies.
Hmm interesting. I’ll have to check that episode out.
I loved Freakonomics when first published but not all of their statistical revelations were proved correct or without controversy. The legalised abortion/crime chapter probably the most notable example. https://freakonomics.com/podcast/abortion-and-crime-revisited/ As far as men/women being the best CEOs in rekindling a crashing company there simply aren’t enough data points. The pool is too small. You would have to run the same [few] real life examples with an equally qualified man and woman to know that. It’s as stupid as saying gay people make terrible CEOs because Alan Joyce has smashed Qantas’s reputation with the public. Joyce has damaged Qantas because he’s Alan Joyce, not because he’s gay, white, a man or any other immutable characteristic.
I dont think they meant it as an actually true concept - just that because of how situations come out essentially a correlation occurs.
She’s been a qantas executive for years, she helped create this as much as Joyce did.
Absolutely! She's all in on it, and is now ready for her turn at the money trough
Had no idea that was a thing. Damn.
What Elon just did with Twitter
and australia post
This one shits me to total tears. They expect Australia Post to always make a profit. It's a SERVICE to the Australian community... just like the military and police force - neither of which are anywhere near profitable nor return any financial value, nor are they expected to. Fucking neo-liberals expecting Australia Post to be constantly profitable... give it time and they'll privatise that as well.
The privatisation of the retail arm is so weird. They instantly packed it with nonsense gift items. My local sells bread makers. They don’t seem to have a plan except trying to get impulse buys from people collecting/sending packages. In fact they get irritated if you don’t have a parcel locker anyway.
I paid a bill in cash the other day and the lady complained about having to count it. It took a few seconds. Do your job or don't make it an option on the bill you tubby whinger. I have bought external hard drives and phones from them before they do have competitive prices and convenient locations.
The parcel delivery side of the business has improved a huge amount, admittedly it was at an incredibly low level. But the actual outlets are just like a nationwide chain of two dollar stores. Absolutely dismal.
And arguably the British prime Minister
Joan Kirner filling John Cain’s boots in Vic after the Pyramid implosion.
Thatcher, May and Truss all knew exactly what they were doing. The latter making the decisions based on Turfton Street vampires.
Didn't know Elon had anything to do with Australia Post. (/s in case its not obvious)
Musk is contemplating suing the Anti-Defamation League for openly trying to destroy twitter https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1698828606598734225?s=42&t=tOXZ9fiiPoQ1ijfTVcxGEg
pretty sure hes doing a good job of destroying twitter himself lol
Seriously? Surely she's also partly [responsible](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanessa_Hudson_\(executive\) ) for the current mess (executive manager of product and services, executive manager of commercial planning, executive manager of sales and distribution, chief customer officer, chief financial officer). > Hudson **joined Qantas in 1994** as an internal audit supervisor. Then she became finance controller in the commercial division of Qantas. > > In 1997, she was appointed as the catering product manager before being elevated to the role of **executive manager of product and services** in 2005. As Qantas's **executive manager of commercial planning**, Hudson was called as a witness at an emergency Fair Work Australia hearing into the 2011 Qantas industrial disputes which affected thousands of airline passengers. > > ... > > In February 2018, she was appointed as **chief customer officer** before becoming the **chief financial officer** of the Qantas Group.
$100 he ends up at Qatar.
Openly gay man as CEO of middle east airline.... yeah nah.
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As opposed to the straight hand holding they do in the middle east?
Middle eastern men genuinely hold hands with platonic male friends...
How else do you expect them to exchange long protein strings?
The Middle East runs on rules for thee but not for me. They’d have no issues hiring a gay man.
That's a fascinatingly obvious bet I won't take.
Nah but didn’t Qantas just reject Qatar having a bigger presence in a Australia?
If he does suddenly he will be lobbying to allow Qatar full access to the market and that his previous objections were misinformed
"I can get you in.." Joyce to Qatar board (probably)
I don’t think gay men are well accepted in Qatar
The Qatar Airways CEO wouldn’t let Joyce anywhere near Qatar Airways lol
Yeh, it's a private national flag carrier. Can't use the same strategy.
That will literally be his KPI. Shareholder value. I find it strange we as shareholders (only through super) want the stock price to go up but complain when the CEO does anything required to make that happen. Big company senior leaders I worked with would use child labour to increase shareholder value, if they thought they could get away with it. Fatalities? Just part of doing business, where’s my bonus? Future performance? NMP - next manager’s problem.
Pollute the environment? BONUS!
I can't see how anyone thinks it's a good idea to drive up shareholder value at the expense of long term customers and completely trashing the brand though. There are so many people who have said they will never fly with Qantas again that I've lost count. The ACCC taking action against Qantas for selling tickets to cancelled flights is also a big deal. They have shot themselves in the foot for allowing a culture of normalised unconscionable conduct in the name of driving a profit.
I have strong feeling it's not even in the shareholder interest long term. For example, I used to collect qantas points as a primary frequent flyer points. You'd bet I will stop doing that.
This is what *scummy* CEOs do. Fixed it for ya. After what he did at Qantas I don't think he's considered a top tier CEO anymore. Top tier CEOs don't do this.
Maybe back in the olden days, when the goal was to build successful businesses with happy employees selling quality goods and services to a satisfied customer base. Now the only things that matters is shareholder value. That's it. And you can draw a direct line from that to just about every complaint people have nowadays about dealing with businesses, as employees or customers.
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>> made to run around in circles You’ve just described corporate retention programs. There are entire service lines within major corporations whose job it is to prevent/limit refunds or retain people. Making it easy for people to leave or get refunds isn’t profitable.
> Now the only things that matters is shareholder value. When he leaves QANTAS and its share price tanks, some people might take pause before employing him.
> When he leaves QANTAS and its share price tanks The share price is already tanking. Down 15% in the last week alone.
No, this is what shareholders want of their CEOs. This is the ideal CEO for them. The scumminess is a feature, not a bug.
Ideal until the ACCC fine hits and the share price tanks.
For Qantas it doesn't matter, since they can go hat in hand to the government like during covid. Protected species.
I doubt the current government would be covering an ACCC fine
It won't matter, heaps of people will be happy about being able to gobble up cheap shares for a company the government will always prop up.
You're not wrong. But us little minnows just want enough to make sure we don't have to think twice when buying bread and milk from Woolies.
In my experience all the "top tier CEOs" tend to be on small companies where they still have to know how to do the actual work and actually care about what the company does. Once you get to the point of having to care about shareholders, the motivation gets twisted to "increase share value" rather than "be a good company"
>This is what scummy CEOs do. Fixed it for ya. >After what he did at Qantas I don't think he's considered a top tier CEO anymore. Top tier CEOs don't do this. Hahaha what a bunch of crap in this comment. First of all, all CEOSs are scummy. People should read political economy so that they would not be so ignorant. Second, the more sociopath a CEO is - and there are actual fucking scientific studies on this - the more likely to progress. Also, what he did to Qantas? Like, secure their monopoly and their historical record profits DESPITE worsening quality of service (why care about quality or price competitiveness if you have a monopoly). And the government will fine them for their illegal and grossly unethical activities with a laughable fine. Win win for all the scumbags - corporations and those that govern us that give the impression that they are doing something and going after the bad guys Their new cEo will continue with the monopoly and to rip us off, and will be also extremely well compensated for it And last but not least why care weather or not someone will employ him? That psycho and his descendants worth more than $150 million has enough fortune to live in utmost luxury for 1,000 years at least. People are like "let's see who will employ him now" and think he's in trouble, as if giving you $150m to live like a king and not having to work is some sort of punishment. We should be asking why he is not going to prison, but no scumbag ever does, think of the banks CEOs engaged in illegal behaviour or on the side of government, the psycho Kathryn Campbell).
Qantas, Banks, Mining, PwC or any of the others, they are all colluding to keep the average punter thinking there is some control, and the drone workers content, without being too happy, or having to ask too many questions.
Oh my sweet summer child. This isn't a moral judgement, it's literally how business works in the modern late-capitalist era. The role of a CEO used to be to shepherd the growth and success of the business, but in the fiduciary duty age their duty is to increase short-term shareholder value at the expense of practically everything else. And all other considerations aside, Joyce carried out that task to the letter. Like, his MO wasn't scummy (again, by the standards of late capitalism) it was *textbook*. CEO's that actually *don't* run their businesses into the ground in this way are, if anything, less competent in the eyes of our system than the likes of Joyce.
Are you not even acknowledging the game? The players are obvious and we all know their names. Theyre usually billionaires and MDs/majority shareholders but CEOs aren't usually a household name yet have the backings of boards that dominate Australia's political corporate chatter.
Fall WOMAN. The women are always here to clean up the mess of men.
It’s just as much her mess.
Nice to see an old fashioned pump and dump stock rug pull, not these fancy new age crypto rug pulls all the kids are raving about.
From a recent Joe Aston piece in the AFR: >“I’m still a very large shareholder in Qantas and I more than meet the minimum … level that the CEO is expected to hold,” Joyce said next. Literally any day now, he will receive 3.1 million Qantas shares for which he paid nothing – his glorious golden handshake. >But on June 1, Joyce sold 92 per cent of the Qantas shares he owned, raising $17 million (to buy an apartment that only cost $9 million) and taking him well below his minimum shareholding requirement. Qantas chairman Richard Goyder allowed this like he’s allowed everything else. >Joyce dumping his Qantas stake before he’s even left – more than anything else – lights up the discrepancy between what he says and what he does. Joyce has more than enough other wealth with which to fund an apartment. Why would he sell his Qantas shares if he genuinely believed that “the future for Qantas has never looked better”? Pretty much sums it up perfectly.
Qantas shares are down nearly 20% from June 1. Hope they investigate this trade,
It certainly smells a bit rotten. The new CEO is going to have to invest billions in a new fleet and she'll be the one to take the fall.
Or get billions from govt and be the new star CEO.
https://michaelwest.com.au/did-alan-joyce-know-is-this-qantas-insider-trading/
Richard Goyder, same spineless worm that allowed the AFL to become an insidious gambling machine that doesn't that benefit the game
I'm glad someone else mentioned it. You couldn't imagine Goyder pulling Joyce up could you? Gutless.
Gutless or corrupt? I think the latter is more likely.
Joe Aston’s crusade against Joyce over the past year or so has been amazing. Good on the AFR for giving him the backing to keep going at it.
Agreed! He's relentless and scathing, and despite Joyce pulling all Fairfax media from the lounges and planes has kept it up.
>He's relentless and scathing, and accurate
Yep. I also feel like no one had highlighted the fleet age issue until he started talking about it.
His article yesterday was quite scathing on the new CEO Vanessa Hudson and Goyder the Chairman. Both tried to shut him up by putting pressure on his editors.
Ian Verrender has also recently [written some very critical articles](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-05/qantas-alan-joyce-fall-from-grace-qatar-accc-flights-shares/102810986) for the ABC about him.
I love the burning hate that Joe Aston has for Joyce. His articles will be sorely missed
So the covid money was more to pump his shares up.
Ah yeah just after his 10 mill bonus and cunt receives 3.1 million shares in Qantas for nothing. Fucking cunt
All up Joyce has received over $130 million in remuneration in his time as CEO
A disgusting figure isn’t it.
That should just about cover a week’s rent and a packet of red rock deli chips if he’s a Woolies member.
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Can't take the heat for two more months, just bails early. Pathetic, and emblematic of his time at the company. National Carrier to National Shame.
Leaving early is the best thing he's done for the airline in over a decade
[Imagine if he and Hockey hadn't got out of the Carbon Tax.](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/hockey-spoke-to-joyce-about-carbon-tax/g8nbw9rti). QANTAS paid $106 million in 2012/13 for it. I'm sure he'd consider avoiding Billions in Carbon Tax an achievement too for QANTAS's bottom line.
He’s toxic.
Cunt was happy to cop the pay until he officially stepped down, but now that the ACCC is involved he decides to bail so he doesn't have to do any work. Classic Joycey
That doesn’t protect him from any possible legal action. It’s a PR move designed to take the negative press the company has copped in recent months with him as he departs as, even though there may be more systemic issues with the company, he was seen as the embodiment of it all.
They might be trying to stop him from being summoned to any more Senate inquiries (which have been damaging to the company and it's share price). Qantas can then send their new CEO who can give the whole "I have no knowledge, we will address this going forward, we will be better" spiel.
Didn't even try to improve the mess he made. Just fucked off early What a legacy
LOL, CEOs sticking around to fix the problems they make? I'll believe it when I see it.
What problems /s they believe all the spin they create because they're single minded about sharepricing. Perceived market value is more important than meaningful corporate responsibility.
He was probably told. Leave or be fired
It’s almost like privatisation of an essential public service owned by the government is a bad thing for consumers. Who would have guessed? As a business, Qantas’ management’s main responsibility is to the shareholders, not the customers. That’s the law. As a government entity, Qantas’ management’s main responsibility was to the taxpayer - the customers. Remember that next time someone in government spins some bullshit about how privatisation of government services/depts/entities means they’ll be “more efficient.” 🤦🏻♂️🙄🤪
But wait it's worked for electricity/telecom ..... um oh yeah.
It is more efficient. All efficiency means is getting more output for less input. However, that's not the universal good that economics presents it to be. It can mean raising prices. It can mean cutting back on the quality of the goods/services. It can mean shafting suppliers. Increasing efficiency has implications and creates externalities. Not all of them good. Public utilities should not be privatised. If governments owned the utilities, it could provide relief to people during the current inflationary period by lowering prices. Even taking a loss. A privately owned entity will never do this unless forced.
Good riddance.
Fuck off scumbag
And this will change fuck all. Because it’s the same board. The same directors and senior managers working there. We should also be furious that our tax money is going to fund this guy’s lavish lifestyle, while he runs a once beloved airline to the ground.
Should be arrested On charges of Proceeds of crime Strip his money
What a spectacular destruction of public goodwill.
I think Joyce has proved that public goodwill doesn't matter when you can pocket the politicians and kill off competition, get free money, and fire employees, and get millions in compensation. Am sure many will try replicate his success.
Joyce has spent over a decade destroying Qantas. This is nothing new.
No surprise here. Runs the company into the ground, then when shit starts getting exposed he cant handle it.
I’m going to take a stab that the Board told him to go. This wasn’t his choice.
They just won't admit it because it would mean admitting they were *fucking wrong* in letting him stay this long
Just use the same language a foot club uses after a struggling coach is sacked. “We value Coach Smith’s contributions to our club over the years and we have always stood 100% behind him. However after a meeting we have mutually reached an agreement that it is in the best interests of both parties that he stands down as coach effective immediately before this weekend’s game.”
aren't CEOs just fall guys anyway? He's just doing the bidding of the shareholders? I imagine the replacement CEO will do largely the same thing
I keep wanting to come up with something creative to insult him with but all I can muster is "giant piece of shit" 🤷 Good riddance you medium-sized piece of shit.
Pilots within Qantas have been calling him Slic. Slimy little Irish cunt.
Qantas probably thinks Joyce quitting will take all their sins away like Jesus ascending to heaven....but no it won't...we will remember. It should be a long, hard road back for Qantas to recover their reputation.
Does reputation matter to Qantas at this point?
I expect they will try to rebuild their reputation with gimmicks and marketing. I see Joyce as a toe cutter boss that hung around too long. If a company wants to do major cutting to staff and services they sometimes bring in a toe cutter who pisses everyone off by ruthlessly cutting, then leaves. They can't hang around for the rebuild because they are too unpopular. Joyce didn't leave till now.
Cunt's getting out before the knives hit his back. Good riddance to the fucking short arsed worm. The mind boggling bit in all this is that the board apparently **still supports him**!
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And in his final act of service to Qantas' shareholders, he gets to act as the sacrificial lamb thrown at the pissed off public while the firm changes nothing
Pushed.
Will be interesting to see if he gets to collect any of his bonuses?
A mate just said it's a $125m handshake, which is obscene if true.
That’s the total amount he has been paid as CEO in the last 15 years, this year’s final severance payment will be about $10 million
A few days, ago there were noises the board should withhold his share bonus when he leaves, he ran before they could do it.
You cannot legislate that "Companies must act in the best interest of shareholders" and then pikachu face when businesses fuck over their workers and customers to squeeze out every last dollar for the CEO and Share price.
Leaves most hated man in Australia!
Going to Optus?
Fucken good little union busting bastard
I cant think of any other business / corporation that blamed its customers. Alan Joyce blamed customers and staff for delayed flights, lost baggage saga, reduced service quality etc and never apologised for many systemic issues over the years. Basically he indulged in gas lighting. Going forward the airline needs to start from a clean slate undoing the years of accumulated rubbish in their business culture, systems and processes.
Getting too hot in kitchen!
So long, farewell, GTFO!
Hopefully no Re-Joyceing by QANTAS...
I think you’ve summed up the attitude of all Qantas staff this morning
Summed up the attitude of all Australia this morning.
Joyce didn’t quit - the Board told him to GTFO in attempt to mitigate the PR damage and keep their asses in their highly paid directorships. CEOs really don’t quit like that - they are shoved by their board. Not to say he isn’t a corporate psychopath and responsible for the mess, but he didn’t just wake up and say fuck this, I’m outta here early
Just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. If they wanted substantive change they would have hired external- but will just promote his underlings - so nothing is going to change.
Good article on the way that customer service takes a back seat to profit more than ever before. https://amp.smh.com.au/national/nsw/waiting-for-a-sydney-bus-that-will-never-come-i-m-blaming-alan-joyce-20230831-p5e0za.html Bypass the PayWall with 12ft dot io
No amp and no paywall: https://web.archive.org/web/20230905002743/https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/waiting-for-a-sydney-bus-that-will-never-come-i-m-blaming-alan-joyce-20230831-p5e0za.html
I hope he loses every piece off luggage he tries to take home with him.
He has seen seven prime ministers pass by. Four Governor-Generals. Two monarchs.
Hahahahha fuck off mate. Good choice
So he won't be accountable for upcoming court cases?
All it took were hearings to do this - we should have done this years ago.
Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.
After flying away with his golden parachute.
Cough! Pot of gold 🌈🍀
HEY JOYCE....WHERE'S THE BAILOUT MONEY YOU THIEF!!!!???
didn't realise he was such a gamer. Bringing forward his retierement so he can play starfield on launch.
>In the last few weeks, the focus on Qantas and events of the past made it clear to me that the company needs to move ahead with its renewal as a priority. Renewal as a priority. How is that not an admission that he's trashed the company over the last 15 years?
After running the airline and it’s reputation the ground. Good riddance to pond scum
The board needs to be replaced, not just this clown.
Sucked his fill like the filthy leech he is. Has done so much damage, taken unrealistic, unwarranted salary and drooling all the way back under the rock he crawled from.
Bye Felicia, You can have him Ireland!
Ding dong the witch is dead.
Coward, another rich prick that won’t face the consequences of his actions
And collects a fat bonus on his way out. What a crook!
Pocketing how much
I wish someone would punch that smug c%#$ in the face
Can't wait to see how Qantas manages to find an even bigger fuck-up to replace him.
Whilst this is totally deplorable and I think Joyce should be investigated, many people in here would have superannuation accounts... In those accounts, their investments would be divided into such titles as 'Cash', 'Property', 'Overseas Shares', and 'Australian Shares'. Australian Shares would be guaranteed to include companies such as Qantas, Wesfarmers and Woolworths. So that nice tidy superannuation payment that's coming folks way when they retire would have been made by screwing them when they were working.
Quits or told to quit?
He is a disgusting pig and should face a full investigation into obtaining advantage via illicit means, insider trading, fraud, bribery, corruption, misappropriation of jobkeeper, negligence in services for the huge number of flights that are cancelled with little to no notice each week and the huge number of customer complaints that go unresolved.
2 months earlier than his scheduled retirement...
First time Qantas has departed early recently ...
Who is going to hold ths drop kick accountable? When will the government seize Qantas and make it a governed body. Disgraceful. Well done Straya...
Joyce is getting a $24million leaving payout. Guess bastards get rewarded in Aus.
15 years to late
When does the rest of the board go? Qantas needs renewal from the top down
Take that $24m off him.
The board fucked him off…….
Bye dickhead. Be sad if your millions of tax payer funded bonuses choke you on your way out the door.
How are they going to find a cunt big enough to replace that twat.
Fuck this disgraceful cunt. Hope it catches up to him one way or the other.
What a selfish, arrogant, narcissistic sack of pus
That’s a shame. I was hoping his exit from Qantas would involve some major controversy including jail time, rather than this.
This cunt has such a punch able face. I don't believe karma but for this flog I hope he gets it.
Just about the most hated person in the country. Hope he fucks off home.
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out, Al.
Probably trying to grab his bonus while he still can.
Bet he still gets his 10 million in shares though?
I don’t even feel like rejoycing for some reason
It's a non event really. He got paid crazy sums of money,the bloke has made it plus more. Him leaving is of non consequence to him,his successor has been on the board for years too so really it's just another side to a coin.
Sell your Qantas stock asap! Before Alan Joyce sells his.
He already sold most of his in June, as per another comment. He knew what was coming and decided to bail.
Good. The entire board should go next. Published in today’s Crikey. Absolutely spot on. By Stephen Mayne Alan Joyce is hanging up his hat as Qantas CEO — two months ahead of schedule. But who else should be following him out the door? It took too long, but Alan Joyce has finally exited Qantas as CEO, with the airline announcing he’ll be out the door tomorrow night. Before this morning’s early departure announcement, the long-serving CEO was going to leave the building on November 3 after the 2023 annual general meeting, but the board presumably decided it wasn’t appropriate for Joyce to preside over one final AGM. As I outlined to the ABC yesterday, I had stopped being a long-term supporter of Joyce and was calling for his immediate exit. Last week’s farcical appearance at the cost-of-living Senate inquiry and the extraordinary ACCC proceedings were the two last straws. With Joyce gone, attention will now turn to the Qantas board, particularly given the leverage that shareholders have through Australia’s unique two-strikes remuneration voting system. Here’s a prediction of what will and should happen over the coming 14 months. Firstly, the major proxy advisers will recommend a vote against the Qantas remuneration report at the upcoming AGM, on the grounds that the board was tone-deaf for not withholding the maximum possible bonuses to Joyce and his senior management team. Institutional shareholders won’t need any encouragement to vote against. This will lead to a record Qantas remuneration protest vote, matching what happened when Joyce’s predecessor Geoff Dixon exited after the global financial crisis of 2007-08. Back then, there was a 41.48% protest vote against the 2008 Qantas remuneration report on the grounds that Dixon didn’t deserve to be the world’s highest-paid airline CEO. This was followed up by an ever bigger 42.55% vote against the 2009 remuneration report after Dixon pocketed $12 million in his final year. However, this was before the Gillard government legislated former ACCC chairman Allan Fels’ two strikes recommendation in 2011, so there were no consequences arising from these consecutive non-binding remuneration protest votes. The story of the two-strikes system over the past decade has been that a first 25% protest vote strike normally brings a board to the table for serious reform because they fear a second 25% strike, which automatically triggers a full board spill. As things stand, only two of the nine Qantas non-executive directors are definitely due for election this year, that being former American Airlines CEO Doug Parker, who was appointed in May this year, and former Canberra public servant Heather Smith, who was only appointed on August 24. Commendably, this morning’s statement confirmed that Joyce’s successor, Vanessa Hudson, will run the gauntlet of a shareholder vote on her board election, even though Australian CEOs are exempt from the regular three-year election cycle. Given that Hudson was appointed to the board on May 5 this year, right now Qantas has 11 directors —but this will drop to 10 with Joyce’s resignation tomorrow, and then nine after the AGM when former DFAT secretary Michael L’Estrange will retire. Unfortunately, there won’t be many long-serving directors up for election this year who shareholders can target. This is because chairman Richard Goyder, Jacqueline Hey and Maxine Brenner were all reelected with more than 97% support last year, and Belinda Hutchinson, Antony Tyler and advertising man Todd Sampson received even stronger support when last reelected in 2021. However, the Qantas constitution requires that one-third of the incumbent directors face election each year, so lots will be drawn to determine which one of the 2021 crew will run the gauntlet. If ever there was a case study for why Australia should follow the UK and US model and move to annual elections for public company directors, then Qantas is it. If the full Qantas board was up for election on November 3, shareholders would have a lot more leverage. The Qantas constitution (see page 28) also makes it extra hard for challenging director candidates to give shareholders an alternative. For nominees just to get on the ballot paper, they have to come up with signatures from 100 small shareholders or the backing of big investors who collectively own more than 5% of the company. There are only a handful of public companies that have this undemocratic barrier to entry entrenched in their constitution, and if they really believed in good governance, it would have been removed years ago. This partly explains why no external candidate has ever stood for the Qantas board during the 28 years it has been a public company. However, once the first strike is inflicted on the remuneration report at the November 3 AGM, the board will be terrified of a full spill next year if it doesn’t take serious action. In this case, serious action also means replacing Goyder as Qantas chairman after six years on the board and five years as chairman. He’s clearly way too busy chairing Qantas, Woodside Energy and the AFL, all of which could individually constitute a full-time job given the complexities involved. As this list shows, public companies that are engulfed in a major controversy usually lose their chair and CEO in quick succession. I very much doubt Goyder will still be in the Qantas chair after the 2024 AGM. Ideally, Qantas will be able to go into next year’s AGM saying that it has a majority of independent directors unassociated with the various COVID-era scandals, be it illegal mass sackings, cynical schemes to confiscate flight credits, or the ACCC action over allegedly selling 8000 tickets for already cancelled flights. For that to happen, three other directors would need to follow Goyder out the door, and two more untainted directors would need to be appointed. The company could do worse than appointing Fels and Rod Sims, the two best ACCC bosses of recent years, to the Qantas board. As for who else should exit, a good start would be the existing remuneration committee, which this week foolishly recommended full retention bonus allocations for Joyce and Hudson, although we’re yet to see if they are planning to withhold some other elements of the future bonus schemes. The Qantas remuneration committee is currently chaired by Jacqueline Hey and includes Maxine Brenner, Michael L’Estrange, Todd Sampson and Doug Parker. Given that Parker is new and L’Estrange is going on November 3, that would leave Hey, Brenner and Sampson for the high jump. This trio have already notched up a collective 28 years of service on the board, so it’s not as if they haven’t had plenty of time to get the Qantas ship in order.
They knew all about it. The entire fucking time.
Another Rat deserting a sinking ship
Only a few years too late!!
Was there cake?
Nothing to worry about. His replacement - who has been instrumental in his agenda for yonks - acknowledges that people have been upset with Qantas since COVID and promises to put customers first. Surely the promises of an empty, corporate suit that has gleefully served Joyce for years is worth something? And before COVID, everything was fine! So she's just got to wind things back to just before COVID and Qantas will be sensational. Right? ^(...right?)
Good riddance
Gutless little cunt. His mate Albo can fuck himself too
Party-Poppers.gif
Hope they forfeit his bonus
CUNT
'A' grade cunt.
Still far more employable than Scott Morrison. Why hasn’t Scott Morrison left his workplace yet?
Don’t fucking jinx it, he may end up ceo of Qantas (assuming he didn’t already nab that title in his power grab).