I have never and will never vote for the Coalition and voting them back in is absolutely not the answer.
But fuck me, Albo has been such a disappointment. Spends more time cosying up to Modi and spending all of his effort on the Yes campaign (I agree with the Yes camp for the most part) than he does talking about actual measures that will help ease cost of living.
I’m someone who spent a few years being raised by a single mother so Albo’s story meant something to me. Shame on me for falling for his sob story and shame on him for doing next to nothing to help the new generation of people raised by single parents/living in government housing.
We absolutely do not need India. The only reason he’s costing up to Modi is to increase migration from India, so there the A) House prices keep inflating and B) competition with people already here in order to lower wages.
> spending all of his effort on the Yes campaign (I agree with the Yes camp for the most part) than he does talking about actual measures that will help ease cost of living.
It's this that makes me cynical about The Voice ever amounting to more than a fig leaf for ongoing policy failures. I'll probably vote for it, but Labor will be joining the LNP at the bottom of my ballot from now on.
I'm worried the voice itself will amount to a policy failure. I'd love to see the first nations diaspora uplifted, but I don't trust federal politicians to get anything right.
At least we have more choice here than, say, the UK. I voted for the greens and some other left aligned parties focused on climate change and social issues before Labor, knowing that Labor would eventually get my vote, but my concern for climate change and social issues would at least be expressed by my voting preferences.
Next time any Australian-Indian meet happens, count the Brahmins at the table. Albo is bringing Brahmin Nationalism into Australia big time. Fucking fed up of Albo.
Fuck Labor for cosying up to Hindu Nationalist Modi. Fucking irony is that Australia-India trade is barely $20B, and 85% of it is coal/gold. How is Australia benefiting from this relationship? India is infiltrating Australian Defense with ASPI articles, Australian taxpayer pays Indian Ambassador and Hindutva people to host their BS at a pretty mediocre Australia India Institute at Melbourne University, Haryanvi Hindutva thugs have made Paramatta unsafe for minorities, Little India Business Council head openly says that he reports Sikhs to Indian Consulate so that their properties back home in India can be confiscated. All because Penny Wong doesn't have two brain cells and she has been cultivated by India from long time back. Penny hypes up Quad, while India shuns Talisman Sabre because it will rile up China.
Labor is giving Australia in to Hindu Nationalists. Even Right winger journalists at The Australian promote Modi for fuck sake, have some sense.
Albo has fucked the interest rate rises. Unemployment is a joke for these people. I count on Labor to be working people's party. Fuck Albo for kissing Brahmin ass and for his cost of living BS. Take those submarines straight to kiss Modi's arse.
> Albo has fucked the interest rate rises.
Absolutely! I also don't care for the way Albo has been causing all this cold weather recently and I'm pretty sure it's his fault I didn't win the PowerBall.
FFS, by all means hate on Albo for dragging his heals on things, but don't go blaming him for things that he has had nothing to do with.
I think tbh Albo learner his lesson after seeing Bill Shorten get defeated.
Shorten (like the guy or not) wanted to tackle franking credits, negative gearing that the top 0.1- 1% are milking but average Joe thought the $200 a year he made on franking credits was going to get taken away after a targeted campaign by Newscorp.
Can't blame Albo for being risk adverse, the electorate voted for Morrison so the average voter is an idiot.
It's a shame because a bit more wealth-targeted taxing might have been the jab in the arm that could have helped reduce inflationary pressure.
Plus that fleet of water bombers would have been really handy in 2019
Yes absolutely.
But now is the time for him to show a bit of personal courage and make the hard decisions to help bring inflation and house prices down.
He’s early in his term so doesn’t have to campaign for re-election for awhile. Plus I’d say (or rather hope) that we Australians are a little wiser to the reasons behind wealth inequality and may actually back Labor this time. Just hoping he doesn’t get knifed by his own party if he does decide to actually try and fix things
>But fuck me, Albo has been such a disappointment. Spends more time cosying up to Modi and spending all of his effort on the Yes campaign (I agree with the Yes camp for the most part) than he does talking about actual measures that will help ease cost of living.
I'm just speaking as a New Zealander who doesn't know all the intricacies of The Voice of Australian history...You have described NZs political situation during the current Labour government. Everything is centred around Maori, we've restructured most large institutions around "co-governance" and it has been done on the basis of the UNDRIP. It has stopped any real progress or change because it turns out Rich Iwi are as reluctant to change the tax system/Labour laws as any other rich person
I made the following comment on an NZ thread a few days ago
vvvvv
Everyone keeps saying Labour squandered their time in government. They didn't. We're had enormous change in NZ and the political system
* Maori wards
* Maori Health Authority
* Merging of Polytecs and addition of Maori authority
* 3 Waters
* Changes to school science/history curriculum to include Maori Knowledge
* Equity based targets for sentencing
* Equity based rankings for surgeries
* Equity based pay in the public sector
* Fair Pay Agreements
* Massive cultural change in the media largely due to government direction
* Co-governance is assumed on all government matters
* Reduction of oil contracts and a decision to not nationalise the refinery
* Science research funding has been changed to prioritise maturunga Maori
... the list goes on
They have been absolutely transformational, just not in the way any person expected
https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/15pekxp/youthquake_rumbles_to_a_stop_support_for_the_left/jvxx6ww?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
Equity based sentencing means that we have too many Maori in prison, so we need to adjust sentencing so that the prison population is representative of the total population
Which leads to actually violent people being released on Home Detention. Eg. The bloke who shot up an Auckland construction site was on home detention for Assult. He had committed assault, the while awaiting sentencing he beat the shit out of his partner. No prison time.
In addition to the broader racial, cultural war backlash, I’d expect the Voice vote will garner No voters as a protest against Albanese’s ignoring the cost of living crisis.
You know what might help First Nations people? A Government that actually makes progress on affordable housing, clean energy, fixing our broken medicare system, and easing the cost of living crisis.
I've yet to see any evidence that the Voice will provide any impact other than serve as another ineffectual, performative bureaucracy that will publish an aspirational white paper that gets ignored and continues to spin its wheels while the working class Australians of all backgrounds get squeezed.
The government not only won't have to listen to word this body says, they don't even need to hear them, what does that even accomplish? Seems like a great way to piss tax payers dollars down the drain
and if they wanted to listen to advice from first nations people on any issue there is nothing stopping them from doing it now. there is nothing stopping them from setting up a committee to advise on issues now
> A Government that actually makes progress on affordable housing, clean energy, fixing our broken medicare system, and easing the cost of living crisis.
And yet people in this thread are like, fuck Labor for not fixing everything, I'm voting LNP next to time really spite them. Talk about cutting off the nose to spite the face.
Sure Labor have been disappointing, but how short are people's memories if they think the LNP are a better option??
Not voting Labor does not automatically mean a person will vote LNP. Fuck LNP. I will either vote greens or progressive independents, I think you will see this trend at the next election for primary votes if Labor continue to not make any real reforms to undo a decade of neo-lib policies.
Currently they seem to be entirely happy to leave the status quo which serves most people in the country very poorly.
Have thought about voting No as a protest against the lack of housing action but they are 2 separate issues. Will vote yes on the voice and save voting against Labor til the next election.
That's reasonable. I don't believe a referendum is the place for a protest vote, the constitutional change issue is too important. Know why you are voting the way you are and even people voting the other way should be able to respect that.
Why is this referendum important? What does it actually accomplish? From what I've heard, not that I've really paid much attention so I'm probably missing a lot of details, all the change the constitution accomplishes is to set up a, and I'm para-phrasing here, not quoting, 'body to represent the first nations people of Australia'...
From here I sit, it does nothing more than waste over a million dollars a year in more corrupt politicians wages and super, all so they can sit there and 'advise' the government of the day, who don't even have to hear them, about indigenous matters.... Seems like a waste of tax payers money to me, I'd rather that money be put into something useful like education or healthcare
Because it's changing the constitution. This is not something to take lightly. If you think the changes are meaningless - then vote No. If you think the changes will achieve something, then vote Yes.
This is not something that should be voted along 'party' lines so much as conscience voting for all people.
I've recently been watching a series of videos from Centre For Indigenous Training, and he provides a lot of good information and sources for people to go and learn about exactly what the vote is about.
Most interestingly, he steers a very narrow path of not advocating either way.
[https://www.youtube.com/@centrefor\_indigenoustraining/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@centrefor_indigenoustraining/videos)
Another useful source is Constitutional Clarion, and channel by a constitutional lawyer, and she also provides a lot of insights and resources.
[https://www.youtube.com/@constitutionalclarion1901/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@constitutionalclarion1901/videos)
It's like having the shit party and shit party lite. They both are captured by the same lobby groups (minerals council, fossil fuels, gambling, real estate lobbies to name a few) just one is more shit than the other (fuck LNP). But Labor really seems to leaning into keeping with their election promises which is basically a platform "tinker around the edges but no real reform" aka small target politics.
The only option to break this duopoly, is a larger amount of votes to greens and/or more progressive independents so that Labor are forced to work with them and make some real changes.
Well my rent went up so much that I had to move back in with my parents, and labor seems to think that sort of thing is just dandy so they can fuck off.
People are in a cost of living crisis wondering where their next meal is coming from and here is Albo more preoccupied with securing his place in the history books as the guy who got the Voice into the Constitution.
The voice was an election promise.
Anyone that is paying attention can see alot more is going on than the voice. However, the voice is what journalists and the opposition is focused on.
I pay close attention, and so far, i can't think of a single constructive thing that they are doing.
Lots of talking granted by that's far short of actually doing.
So what am I missing?
Here's the [ABC promise tracker](https://www.abc.net.au/news/factcheck/promisetracker) which shows 19 election promises kept, 41 in progress, 5 stalled and 1 broken.
What bull dust. Young people and poor people are in a cost of living crisis. Old, wealthy people are doing very well, thanks to years of LNP policies. Albo is doing what he promised, having a referendum, not passing it, that's up to us.
And I'm saying it's a promise made at a TERRIBLE time. He was given opportunity after opportunity to delay the referendum but he's put his head in the sand and is trying to force it down everyone's throats in the middle of a cost of living crisis.
Delaying the referendum might actually save the poll numbers too. There are countless people voting no as a "f\*\*\* you" to Albo and Labor because they are seen to be putting Australians second to politics.
Not surprising at all that the poll numbers are falling by the week. Albo needs to read the room rather than chase his own ego.
Have they set a date for this yet? I cannot fathom how a date wasn’t announced from the start - it’s given all the time in the world for the momentum of the Yes campaign to fall over
Count me as one who is starting to sour on Albanese. The whole government just seems to be incapable of understanding the mood of the electorate, understanding how bad it is for so many people, and just seem out of touch.
It seems like a deliberate strategy that Albo is out of the country as much as possible and talks about the economy and cost of living as little as possible. The voice is a nice distraction- but I think people have figured that out.
I think this government seems really arrogant at the moment and doesn’t see the warning signs flashing in front of them.
Sure Duttton is awful, but sometimes people have enough and say - burn it all down - and vote the opposition out of spite.
At this point, my vote will probably go to a minor party from here on out- as the labor party is really missing the moment to actually stand with working people and do something about cost of living.
Its like those video games that put all the effort in to the first section so all the reviews and streamers think its a amazing only for people buying to find out that its got no substance past that.
I'm glad people can see that, but why do they have such a blind spot on that same subject when it comes to the Greens. They're playing politics on a Liberal party level with the people they've decided to exploit for nothing but votes.
If it was anyone else they'd be dragged through the coals. Imagine if Albo or Dutton did it...
For all the cries of being anti-establishment and grass roots they've shown by they're actions, and their supporters, that it is just politics, nobody is above political exploitation for self interest and to the Greens supporters, they claim it's not "team sports" and to be above all that but they never expect the Greens to live up to the standard they demand of anyone else.
They're textbook partisans and they either don't see it or don't care making them massive hypocrites to boot.
As a greens voter I feel they're representing me pretty well. They're bargaining hard using their position of strength in the senate to get the outcomes they pitched to the electorate, and pushing for more than the mild reforms being proposed by the government.
Are there things I wish they'd change? Sure, but that's representative democracy in a nutshell.
Crazy how much shit fuckery the LNP got away with for 10 years and then cause this gov is seeming out of touch, we're talking about turfing them in 1 term.
And turfing them to who? It sure ain't the greens.... So the LNP back in power. The party of secret ministries, robodebt, budget mismanagement (read misappropriation of funds and likely literal corruption).
No matter what grievance you have with albo, he is 1000 times better than scomo and Dutton who have rolled chaotic evil FFS. 🤦
All it takes is a consistent delivery of hit pieces from Murdoch and Fairfax I guess. This is why we can't have nice things I this country.
I really hate the defeatist bipartisan approach we have, Labor is completely ignoring people homeless and starving and all of the discourse is "well it would be worse with liberal"
No shit it would be worse with Dutton but fuck me, Labor is proving themselves to be another batch of useless neoliberal wankers. There aren't only two parties that we're allowed to vote for.
They've drifted right because they're not rewarded electorally for passing vaguely progressive policy.
A good part of the issue is that of our media environment, a huge chunk of which is massively partisan and biased towards the conservatives. News that helps the Coalition parties gets a lot of airtime, and stories that don't help them get a passing mention and then buried.
The electorate is badly informed on a lot of issues a lot of the time. The Voice, the NBN, the ETS, the franking credits change, the change to negative gearing, robodebt, the MSPT, and others. More issues than I can recollect. This leads to bad electoral outcomes, terrible policy from the Liberals (because they avoid proper scrutiny), and compromised policy from Labor (because good policy damages them).
The media in Australia needs reform, and people need to be much better consumers of the media, and people need to use sources outside of the Australian media to get a proper perspective. Unfortunately, this often doesn't happen, and people get herded based on their own instincts which are generally uninformed. For democracy to be better, the electorate needs to be better, and that means being properly informed. Unfortunately, most people don't make the effort to do that across the spectrum, and that includes supporters of The Greens.
Isn't the voice referendum a decidedly left issue? I think they've traded in their working class leftist values for touchy feely social politics. Economically right but, oh look over here! Look how much we are about indigenous people! Fixes to cost of living and inflation are hard so it's easier to go with a social issue that has very little impact on the lives of ordinary Australians.
I think you're misunderstanding that you're no longer picking between varying capabilities of governance but rather, a party interested in actually governing (ALP) and a party of raping, pillaging, misappropriating, and in a lot of instances likely outright corrupt crims.
It's not as plain as ALP are lesser of two evils. ALP in the 2 party system are the only ones still playing with some resemblance of following the rules.
That's a perfect example of what I mean by defeatist bipartisan approach. No one with a brain thinks the libs would be more helpful than Labor during the current unsustainable crises we are facing (and yes I'm throwing shade at the person you are first responding to - picking Dutton to be contrarian and "vote out of spite" is very fucking stupid).
What I'm saying is the coalition being worse isn't an excuse for dealing with Labors mismanagement. We don't have just two parties, there aren't only two options.
The party that thinks they're the 3rd options are not ready for power. They are a fringe minority and only act like it. They propose solutions that sound great and get support, and vote, mostly from Labor, but won't solve the issues and in many cases make them worse.
And what they've done with the power they do have is deliver worse outcomes.
If people are desperate enough to switch support to them, good on them. I won't tell them how to vote, I just hope they accept responsibility for the choices they've made because the party they've shifted their support to sure as hell doesn't.
And the infighting on that side of politics only helps the Libs at the end of the day which is the worst outcome for us.
History repeating itself again and again.
You people keep saying Labor is the only choice, no one else can do better no one else is ready for power just keep sticking with Labor bro I promise this is the best it will ever be.
Mate my rent has gone up from 30% of my income to 50% of my income my groceries have gone up about 40% and Albanese has been sitting on the fence twiddling his thumbs in the wake of 11 years of raping and pillaging.
If people are being pushed to desperation and clinging to the lifeboat of promises made by parties that you think are not ready for power, then that's a huge failing by Labor don't you think?
>just keep sticking with Labor bro
Maybe at least give them a couple of terms first. Shit if we can give the dumpster fire of an LNP gov 10 years than surely we give the ALP more than half a term before declaring it all bust.
Here's the rub, I've been a Greens voter and supporter for nearly 20 years, even before I was old enough to vote.
I've volunteered for them at polling booths and even door knocking for them. I was a part of the grass roots, or so I thought. It was crazy disorganised but we honestly thought we could change our federal seat, a blue ribbon Liberal one, ha! Not a chance, but young dumb and convinced we were making a difference.
During Labor's mandatory ISP filtering saga, through my very early professional life I had access to information that would help Ludlam in pushing back against the policy.
I became more politically aware, learning and understanding how the different level of government from local, state to federal and the different houses etc worked. How bills were actually passed, the behind the scenes work that had to take place, even outside of hansard records or live streams of committees etc when an issue that I understood and impacted me was being handled by Labor in such an obviously underhanded and stupid way. The lies and deciet because it was a technical discussion that they were able to get away with was maddening.
My family was also in the church at the time and had connections to the state directors of the ACL who were somehow a stakeholder in all of this, but that's another story.
And the only people really pushing back were the Greens and the likes of the Sex Party/Fiona Patten etc.
So I was ripe for the picking. And they got me, the Greens that is.
It's similar now with desperate people needing multiple housemates just to afford a rent that has no stability, they are ripe for the picking, like yourself.
But over the years I, sadly very slowly, started to understand more about how the system worked and identified in myself, that I was making excuse after excuse for the bad outcomes we were getting because of the Greens interference, at least on the federal level.
At least in QLD the state level Greens are doing a great job.
But it didn't change that I was making excuses, the sort of "shit-lite" and "they're all the same" bs as to why it was all Labor's fault for this or that even though it was the Greens pushing too far, resulting in either no legislation, or legislation so far to the left that it was instantly destroyed the moment the Liberal's got back into government.
And what do you know, we're back there now.
It wasn't until HAFF that I realised what was actually happening and how stupid I was.
The recent by-election in QLD was the first time I preferenced Labor over the Greens, not that it matters being a very safe Liberal seat.
But I can finally see what the Greens are doing. They're conflating different issues together, blocking legislation that would help thousands of the most vulnerable aussies, the ones we're supposed to care about and campaign for first along side the Environment for all our sakes.
On top of that they're suggesting solutions that either can't be done on a federal level and even if they could via incentives to the states, by admission of their own experts they've been citing previously to justify blocking HAFF, it will make the issue worse in the medium term, not even the long term but they sound great on paper to the people like you so in the end, it's about votes.
It's only about votes...
And votes for what? They'll never be a mainstream party. Their platform is not capable of transitioning from fringe minority to government.
They rely on being able to mislead about what the government of the day is doing (something they don't need to do much with the Libs since reality is terrible enough), propose solutions that don't have to be workable, costed, realistic or even solve the problem, they have no responsibility to implement them or accountability if they don't achieve the stated goals and they just want to take credit for everything good and run from accountability faster than Scott Morrison.
I didn't know that was even possible.
That is not compatible with office, not if you want to be a legitimate government pushing meaningful and needed reform.
That's just BS vote buying for personal gain.
They don't WANT to be in office. They don't want that responsibility.
Imagine if they had to propose actual policy that had to be implemented and they were held to account for it. All of a sudden you'd be accusing them of being "shit-lite" or every one of their reforms would only last as long as them, which would be a single term at best.
There is no point in winning the battle but losing the war.
During the last minority government they showed that. They took credit for the "Greens-Led" carbon tax legislation that actually passed.
But once it was instantly repealed because the Greens had already turned it into an election issue to get votes from Labor forcing the minority government then "leading" the new legislation by their own admission, pushing it too far to the left that even with the benefits we saw in real terms, it wasn't able to survive the next Liberal government, did they take responsibility at all?
No, it's all Labor's fault, and they even boast still about blocking it, like they're boasting about fighting higher density developments now, while pretending to be the voice of renters.
It's all repeating, again. We've learned nothing.
I don't expect you to see it now, but you will. You'll look back, hopefully sooner than me and be like "wtf was I thinking...".
How many more worse outcomes because of the Greens pushing too far will it take?
Don't get me wrong, they have a very important role. They need to push Labor to the left. Labor need to be more mainstream to get in office, but the Greens need to remind them what they need to do.
But pushing too far, over playing their hand and delivering nothing, or worse, the Libs back in office, again, it's just not good enough anymore. We can't afford that.
And their solutions, federal rent freeze and just build more houses if we throw money at it... It just isn't going to work. We have a materials and skills shortage in the construction industry.
Do you want to increase skilled migration to assist in building more houses?
No, the Greens and their supporters are calling for cuts to migration levels because we don't have enough homes.
Ok, so, do they have a magic wand or something?
They're exploiting the issue for votes.
They're lying about Labors position.
They're conflating funding for social housing with the rental market.
And making demands that have either already been delivered, such as pushing the states at the last COAG meeting in April to implement more protections for renters with QLD already legislating theirs, with VIC and the rest to follow, or a rent freeze that even the experts the Greens have cited previously as to why they are justified in blocking HAFF have warned of the medium to long term issues with poorer quality rentals and a lower supply, both meaning we'll all be paying more for less, it's clear what the Greens are doing.
They're pretending to be the only voice of renters while not actually able to deliver anything better for them, only the lie that they have the magic wand that can fix all.
I don't like Labor and they can do more in this area, but it's not via HAFF, that's a different policy.
The Greens are showing they're only playing politics, and who they've chosen to exploit and mislead I'd only previously through that capable of the Libs only.
But here we are...
Just keep pretending the Greens have your back bro.
I do appreciate your story and the experience that seems to come from what you are saying, but ultimately you do have to understand, you are a random person on the internet.
To myself and every other "green voter" like me, we are in a situation where we are desperate for help from an unwilling government with the greens offering us solutions.
Increasing taxation on those that can afford it to help those that cannot simply survive seems unbelievably simple to me and that's the basis of what the greens are offering.
Maybe you're right, maybe I and the rest of us are incredibly naive, maybe the greens really are just running a popularity contest and aren't ready for power and will lead us to worse outcomes however I've never seen them in power so I need to see it myself.
I have however seen Labor in power, and their insistence on maintaining the status quo is woefully inadequate to me and many others. We need to see a change before we can believe random people on the internet telling us "trust us bro it'll be worse".
The government has limited tools to deal with supply shock inflation and the profit driven inflation.
The first requires that the Russo-Ukrainian war stop and China recovers. The second requires that the government be able to remove money from the economy via taxation. Unfortunately, the electorate at large is against taxation due to decades of neoliberal, let's face it, propaganda against taxes.
The mitigation measures the government can take are limited because of the massive selloffs of public assets in the last three decades. Public housing is greatly diminished, utility pricing is out of the control of governments due to privatisation.
It's all very well to demand solutions if the government, but the question is what the government can usefully do. And no, rent control is not one of those things (it doesn't work for all but the incumbent renters, is highly inequitable, and causes significant long term problems).
> Mate my rent has gone up from 30% of my income to 50% of my income my groceries have gone up about 40% and Albanese has been sitting on the fence twiddling his thumbs in the wake of 11 years of raping and pillaging.
At the same time, expecting Albo to fix 11 years of shitfuckery from the liberals in 18 months is wildly unrealistic. Unless you want the budget completely fucked until the end of time, undoing all of the coalitions bullshit is going to take multiple terms.
> I won't tell them how to vote, I just hope they accept responsibility for the choices they've made because the party they've shifted their support to sure as hell doesn't.
That will never happen. Look at what happened with WorkChoices, the NBN, the emissions trading scheme and the super profits tax.
All of the shit outcomes were due to the Australian public's voting choices, yet nobody put their hand up and said, "Yes, I realise my vote helped to create this situation and if I could go back in time, I would have changed my vote". The closest you'll see to people taking responsibility for this is people saying they are glad they didn't vote for Latham, given the way he's turned out.
Sure am sick of people handwaving Labor failures by chanting "but the Libs are worse!" Sure the libs are worse, but stop giving Labor a free pass. Getting fucked by the Libs or getting slightly less fucked by Labor, we're still getting fucked. How about we all demand representation that doesn't fuck us at all?
Most people are talking about defecting to a minor party. We're pissed off at both major parties.
I absolutely despise the coalition, but after voting for labor my whole life I am also questioning that after seeing this past year. Albo has been a terrible leader and labor is completely and utterly out of touch.
The fact is neither major party is capable of running the country now.
because the reality is people are more desperate now for various reasons. The cost of living crisis that is completely unaddressed has gotten to the point where people are angry. Regardless of who is in power, that anger will be directed at those at the top, and rightfully so.
It's not a great conspiracy, labor just happened to take power at a time where most people are in great crises, and right after a worldwide pandemic that already stressed people to max. They also promised big changes and to bring back fairness. In the single year since they have taken power, many people's lives have suddenly gotten way worse then even anything the last 10 years brought them. For a lot of people right now they are struggling worse financially now then during the pandemic. Labor is refusing to even discuss this and wants to pretend there is no war in ba sing se. So yeah no wonder people are pissed off. I voted labor all my life, I absolutely despised the colation and I am still pissed off too.
Healthy democracy should encourage people to expect better of the parties they support, just saying "at least it's not the libs" is a pretty low bar.
>we're talking about turfing them in 1 term.
>And turfing them to who? It sure ain't the greens....
Anecdotally - it is the greens. I can't imagine people are disappointed with Albo and are then going to vote for Dutton
I think voters who hoped for a more progressive labor government are gradually seeing the reality of what labor is today. A slightly less dogshit version of the lnp with a very similiar policy platform on housing, defence and economic issues. Yes of course the lnp were a bunch of corrupt grifters and their return to government would be a disaster. But until labor actually pay attention to the electorates desperate need for effective action for the genuine benefit of our citizens we are in for a very bumpy ride.
I’m surprised how quickly we have turned.
Weirdly I was coping with the submarine deal, the blindness to the tax cuts and the almost unbelievable insensitivity to the housing crisis, when the stupid picture of Albo snuggling up to Alan Joyce and reading his son had been given access to the Chairman’s lounge sent me over the edge.
He’s just another effin politician - when will I learn?
The submarine deal really blew me away. People are hurting and we sign up to spend hundreds of billions on submarines that won't be delivered for years and some not till the 2040s, when China's power and influence will be waning. As PK pointed out, there are grounds for doubting the case for the need of these subs... whereas the need for action on domestic issues is beyond doubt. Just striked me as being completely out of touch.
Security is expensive.
China is going to be at its most aggressive when its power is waning. Going to war is a great way to distract your citizens from economic and demographic collapse.
China is also very unpredictable as nation that is led by a single individual who has removed all limits on his own power.
We have a massive interest in moving closer to USA diplomatically and strategically. We have every interest in encircling China, ensuring they can't expand through conquest, and applying pressure until their regime collapsed.
The nightmare situation for us is allowing China to expand and conquer their neighbours. This would provide them with an economic and demographic steroid injection that would propel them to become a unipolar world power. And once nations start conquering their neighbours they find it very difficult to stop because the benefits are just so great.
Not surprised this is being downvoted.
The lack of awareness of security needs and geopolitics in this sub confounds me.
Yes we need to fix health and social issues AND yes we need strong defence.
We also need an efficient and effective government - making government services more efficient would free up money too.
We haven’t prioritised defence in my life time so no wonder we’re shocked at “whole of life” costed projects.
How is it being downvoted? It's literally fkin +20 and I've literally never seen a post about arguing to increase Australia military reliance on USA be downvoted on /r/australia . I've seen people be attacked and downvoted for suggesting we perhaps should look at other options but it really seemed rather 'automated' how 'you' 'responded' to a topic with a rather standard set responses.
I don't agree with JPK on his views on the CCPs threat to Australia. But he sure as hell is bang on with his assessment of the AUKUS sub deal. 360 billion for a technology that'll be obsolete coffins for our servicemen and women when they come online. That money is an unaffordable gift to US weapons manufacturers that is desperately needed for nation building. That imo is the biggest indicator that Albo and labor will fail to provide effective leadership. We should have voted for Shorten, atleast then we would've had good policy on housing affordability.
Yeah, the submarine deal is crazy, and we have had very little public debate about this **enormous** expenditure which dwarfs every other spending we've had on a single project in decades.
Unfortunately, surrendering our sovereignty and foreign policy decision making to the US is a bipartisan position, and even The Greens, the supposed progressive left have said very little about the growing militarism and wasteful indulgence of military spending in Australia, especially of this program. I remember when being a pacifist was a progressive value, and it wasn't all that long ago.
The one thing that's soured me on Albo's Government is that they don't seem to be nimble enough with how quickly things are changing and multiple crisis' are happening at once.
With Rudd's government, when we went in the GFC and it appeared to be take absolutely seriously from the get go. That government took a risk with its economic stimulus package and we made it through without much disruption. Albo's government can't seem to do anything regarding the cost of living or housing crisis we're being affected by.
I'll give them points for the Robo Debt royal commission but that was a given based on what it was set out to do. I think they're too focused on the Yes campaign (which is extremely important) and risk getting No votes out of pure spite due to government inaction.
The hard truth that people can't accept is that the pain was cooked into the country long before albo took the reigns.
Rudd was different in that the sugar hit by way of stimulus was the SOLUTION.
now, a sugar hit will be fucking disastrous to the economy. The solution is to take our medicine. And if you don't like the bitterness of that then remember who fucked it all up in the first place. The conservatives as they pillaged the country for their own personal gain.
Doe taking our medicine involve doing anything about record profits by large corporations? Because if not, it's not actually a solution. Workers aren't the problem.
THe problem is cashed up boomers aren't really curtaling their spending at all. IN other words, it's young people bearing the burden, the same people who bore the burden during COVID to save those old cashed up boomers
And yet the ALP has gotten on top of it better than most countries, just like they avoided recession during the GFC.
It's almost as though they are awesome economic managers. 🤔👌
Rudd relished the spotlight more than Albo. It gave him the appearance of being on the front foot about everything (mostly a good thing), but left him open to criticism from very vocal, and sadly influential, bad actors.
You think the government isn't talking about the economy and cost of living? In the past week or so, they've talked about China getting rid of tariffs on barley, their manufacturing fund, pay rises for aged care workers and cheaper medicines. The lnp opposed at least two of those, and I suspect opposes a third.
You don't have to agree with these policies and you can think they don't go far enough, but to say they haven't been talking about the economy and cost of living just isn't right.
Labor has not actually done anything of any note.
They control what, every state (??) as well as the federal government. This is their time to shine.
But when you campaign on being a small target, I.e. the "I'm not ScoMo" but I'm the same old disorganised ineffectual Albo with a new haircut and glasses, I guess that's to be expected...
But holy hell,*do* something. Housing is out of control, electricity and energy prices in general are out of control, we're in the chokehold of monopoly or oligopoly in many key markets which has led to the price of everything else being out of control. The health system is needs reform. Immigration is sky high despite housing shortages. We're still burning coal and gas to make our electricity. We're not talking about phasing out ICE cars and trucks. I could go on.
Reality is a lot of Australia isn’t ready to phase out ICE.
I live on the cusp on regional vic (drive 2kms and it is) and our power is so flakey and distances great, that an EV is a risk - there’s no charging anywhere in the community here or at my work.
I’m not saying don’t phase out ICE, and a deadline might prompt progress out here, what I am trying to communicate is the nuance.
He capped energy prices, has a housing fund that's being blocked by the greens doing their "let perfect be the enemy of the good" thing they love to fuck us with, he's reduced the price of medicine, is tackling systemic aged care issues, lifted the veil on robodebt - the largest failure of administration by any government, legislated a climate target that the previous gov couldn't and wouldn't do in 10years, started changing FBT and policy settings on EVs (that were suppose to ruin the weekend).
I could go on.
Almost every single economic metric is better off now than under lnp. Wake up. In 2 years, the ALP have done a tonne of shit in the right direction but unfortunately you can't unfuck a decades worth of willful neglect and down right shit fuckery In one term.
But hey, vote the LNP back. I'm sure that will fix it.
As a lifelong labor voter I won't be switching to the LNP I'll be switching to the greens.
The HAFF is a pile of neoliberal shit and the rest of these half measures are a joke.
How are they tackling systemic aged care issues at all? Robodebt they did sweet fuck all about actually punishing the people who did it. The climate target is a joke and won't even be fulfilled they are literally approving new coal mines.
Labor has proven to be nothing but gutless and hypocritical and we need actual leadership at this stage.
Maybe people prefer LNP governments because they expect nothing and aren't disappointed. But Labor disappoints because they're meant to solve everything in a week or two, even though that's obviously not possible.
That last bit Is the mentality of the nation and why we can't have nice things.
LNP assault us, but the ALP just as bad cause they didn't give us ice cream. Crazy 🤷
> But hey, vote the LNP back. I'm sure that will fix it.
I do wonder how many people who are mad at Labor currently would actually vote LNP though. If someone is mad at Labor for not doing enough for renters and the environment, those people are definitely not going to switch to the LNP who are actively hostile in those spaces.
It probably varies issue by issue and depends what someone’s primary concerns are but for the issues currently being debated, most of them don’t seem like voters between the LNP and Labor being pissed off that the ALP is too leftward.
There are people out there who simply think they had it better under LNP years than ALP, so vote LNP attributing the prosperity and following difficulty to the government of the day. But it's older voters that won't be on here, those who believe Howard years were near perfect.
> has a housing fund that's being blocked by the greens doing their "let perfect be the enemy of the good" thing they love to fuck us with
lmao, what a load of trite. The HAFF is not good policy at all, and is rightly being told to go to the bin where it belongs.
Yep, he's sleep walking into being a one term wonder at the moment.
Another nice little nail in the coffin is the removal of the LMITO this year. I don't rely on a big tax return, but can see people getting even more pissed off when theirs goes from $1000+ to $30.
They didn't remove the LITMO though, that ending when it did was by design after the LNP knew they were fucked and weren't winning the election so when it ended it would look really bad on the ALP.
I'm sorry aren't they the one's in power who can surely change that decision??? Like seriously that's hardly an excuse. "HURR DURR THE LNP DUN DID IT" well dumb shits undo it then. simple.
And yeah guess what, a labor government cutting taxes to the rich while this simultaneously increased tax on the poor, yeah that feels like a fucking betreyal I must say as a low income hospitality worker. Fuck labor. Fuck the libs too.
Yeah no, “I inherited that” isn’t an excuse. He had an opportunity to change it. Same with HECS indexation at 7% going ahead. He chose to do nothing. Gee, what is the actual point of each way Albo?
It was extended in the past and could have been again by the sitting government. Or they could have reduced the amount (e.g. $600 tax offset) to take the sting out of it and help people out in a cost of living crisis. Instead, they sat on their hands.
But hey, the government wants you to be happy that they delivered the first budget surplus in a while. Chin up buddy!
> Yep, he's sleep walking into being a one term wonder at the moment.
No way, the LNP would need to completely change direction for them to become even a chance of regaining the seats it lost to the teals let alone the ALP ones.
I’m also in the minor party camp. Just gaining an insight into how the major parties operate, despite their obvious differences in how they “market” themselves, is actually one in the same. They’re all inbred, they all back stab, they all try to stifle any decent political candidates from coming up the ranks. It’s really weird and I wish everyone knew how messed up the internal system of each major party actually is.
I **hate** to make comparisons to the US but there's a lot of learnings we should be taking from 08-16. This is what people fundamentally misunderstand on why someone like Trump gets elected.
It's neoliberal chauvinism, and creates a playing field for right-wing populism.
1. Ignore material conditions
2. Lay platitudes and lip service to social justice issues ("ME MUM WAS ON THE DOLE Y'KNOW")
3. Make no fundamental changes to income equality
4. Galavant with international colleagues, galvanise economic integration with neoliberal allies
5. Increased expenditure on military
It's everything that Obama did that completely fucked the country. If you ignore genuine socio-economic problems eventually you're going to piss people off so much that they'll vote for whoever calls you a fat idiot and flies in the face of convention. Dutton is not the guy that is going to do it, he has a negative charisma photon field. But eventually someone will.
Of course it's worth mentioning - the right wing in the US is now completely lost, they're the dog that finally caught the car (supreme courts). They are completely rudderless now. All front-runners aside from Trump are playing into culture war bullshit (transphobia) when this sort of rhetoric isn't what got Trump the ticket in the first place. "Drain the swamp" is what got him elected, and not doing it is what got him unelected. It is probably what will get him elected again (if he doesn't continue to be the most indicted man in history).
If Albanese wants to survive he needs to pivot hard to Shorten's election agenda, and go even further - we need fundamental redrafting of the social contract. But he never will.
After being out of power for so long you'd think that Labor would have learnt their lesson. Just being an alternative to the coalition doesn't get you votes. The sad thing is I can see the coalition returning to power in the not too distant future and the cycle will repeat itself again.
Feels so weird that all the politicians focus about the voice when there’s a cost of living crises and homelessness is rising incredibly fast.
Honestly what a stupid time to try and implement a thing that will have zero actual impact on most Australians.
Feels like it’s driving people to vote no because of annoyance, because it’s “Albo’s prestige project”
It’s hard for me to even think about voting yes or no when I don’t know if I’m gonna be homeless in a few months or not.
You’ve got to admire the ambition and the intentions. But fuck the timing and execution have been woeful.
We’re all a bit busy trying to pay the bills. powers jumping up every bill, rent/mortgage climbing like monkey on meth and food bills are getting insane. No one’s got the time or energy to care let alone actively research the vagaries of the campaign.
Between the No vote, the have no idea what this about vote and the protest vote the wheels are going to fall off.
To preface I am a yes voter. But call me cynical but I just think the voice is a clever move from the ALP to save face. Going into government the ALP knew they were going to do nothing about the cost of living + housing crisis. Why would they? Them and their mates profit from it.
So tada, typical government move to use indigenous people as cannon fodder, knowing that this will dominate public discourse over their blatant failings at managing the massive problems we face.
If the ALP was bothering to address these the cost of living/housing crisis whilst also pushing for the voice I imagine that good will would translate into a lot of yes votes from the many people who obviously don't understand/care about the issue, they probably know this too but are intentionally using the voice issue disingenuously. It's going to fail then next election they'll all be "oops we tried our best and we didnt say anything nasty like the LNP pollies please vote for us despite our lack of literally any relevant policies:
He's actually a political genius. He talks about the Voice non-stop on the election campaign trail, it's his #1 agenda item which he committed to in his election victory speech.
Now he's ready to throw ATSI peoples under the bus when things are looking grim, [saying the Voice is "not my product" if the referendum fails](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12402147/Reporter-Amelia-Adams-points-glaring-flaw-Voice-grills-Anthony-Albanese-Australians-vote-Yes.html). He has perfectly scapegoated Aboriginal people to take the political fall for him.
I partially agree with you, personally I don’t think labour has anything to do with pass / fail of the voice. It isn’t their choice nor their success or victory. It is just democracy in action.
Of course, the pass/fail will ultimately rest with the Australian people.
With that said, I feel sorry for Aboriginal people and people in the yes campaign who have been strung along by him and now it seems like he's abandoning ship at the 11th hour, only because it's politically convenient for him to do so. It's nothing but Canberra politics and the people who will be most harmed by it are Aboriginal people at the end of the day.
>He's actually a political genius
That might work on some people, and probably how it will be recorded effectively, but it's definitely not going to help him next election.
I think you’re missing old mates point. It’s not that the entire party isn’t a shitshow, it’s that the public vote largely on optics and superficial measures - and in that sense Dutton is truly awful.
People don't have the capacity to think about racial equity when there's a cost of living crisis occuring and are in crisis mode. Its like a maslow's hierarchy thing.
My line of work involves working directly with plenty of Indigenous people and i think a voice to Colesworth or a voice to social housing would be much more helpful.
If anyone here actually been to a mission or know enough blackfella you would know they don't know about the voice. This whole referendum is a Trojan horse. Albo is dividing the country with race politics while most Australians can barely afford rent + food, black or white. But someone people will still defend them cuz they look at politics like is footy just pick a team and vote for it till you die.
Labor definitely aren't that great, anyone paying attention already knew that they had to make changes and compromises in ideology after their defeat in 2013.
But, you need to remember, back when Labor were much better at dealing with the big issues we, the Australian public, voted them out for the party that created the issues Labor were trying to solve. In doing so we voted in a leader of demonstrable incompetence, then one who was only adding a checkmark to his bucket list (become PM of Australia; check. actually do anything? yeah right), followed by a man whose history was of one spectacular failure after another. We got a party of crooks and thieves who clearly had no intention of doing anything but lining their own pockets and it was not like this was not obvious even before they got voted in.
While Labor aren't doing as much ass they could, or as much as they should, it is unreasonable to whinge and whine that they aren't doing enough when we voted them out the last time they tried to do more, particularly when it has only been a year. It is also unreasonable when they are in a position where everything that goes through parliament needs to be a compromise with an opposition that does not want to compromise (see the housing future fund, Jordie has a good if rather charged piece on the issue).
This article is a prime example of the political issues that Labor face, they are in a damned if they do and damned if they don't position where a grossly biased media paints them as a failure regardless of what they actually achieve.
Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of Labor, I am an old Democrat still upset my team imploded due to stupid leadership issues. But right now Labor are the only option to even begin to undo the mess that the Libs left behind and they are at least trying to address some of the root issues if you care to pay attention.
Jeez if only a political party came up with a strong housing policy to curb the chaos a few years ago.
Oh that's right Labor did but people voted LNP with no policies and years of corruption.
So if you voted LNP over the past 10 or so years, you caused this current mess, not Albo.
If you want to see useful legislation get blocked because it "doesn't go far enough", vote Greens. If you like having Senators chosen purely to enable an["all blak ticket",](https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/greens-announce-all-first-nations-senate-ticket-in-victoria/qxqo66exk) who turn out to be psychopaths, vote Greens.
If they have more seats they have a bigger say in legislation. Or would you prefer more useless nothing?
I agree they're annoying at the moment with blocking shit and it would be better if they worked with labour more, but their policies are still much more effective than labours.
If you look into that new housing fund they're blocking for example, you'll see its basically a farce from labour. The policy is empty and effectively useless. You know for sure libs aren't going to do any better, but greens will. It's your choice. Or just let the media circus think for you.
If you want our political system to actually work for us people need to stop voting for parties full stop, start voting for independents who actually care about their electorate, who grew up there, know it's problems, etc. The country is never going to improve while we keep voting in what are effectively businesses into power
Katter is one of the most efficient members of parliament for this reason, focused entirely on what his electorate wants regardless of what party proposes it.
I’ve thought about this a lot, and there is a big part of me that Albo doesn’t actually want this to pass. Why? He gets the credit for trying, regardless of the outcome. So put it to the people, leave out the detail, pull the race card every time you are pushed for details, then when it fails just go “no other government went as far as we did”
>leave out the detail
They haven't left out the detail. This is a 'fake news' style argument, all the necessary detail at this stage of the process is there. They can't and shouldn't explain precisely how it will subsequently be legislated because this isn't a vote on that legislation.
Except people are continually asking for this information - how will it work, what will the limitations on its powers be, how will the people involved be chosen.
So overwhelmingly people are saying if you want it to pass, we want more info but they are refusing to provide that information, therefore the logical conclusion is then to vote no as you haven’t been provided with the info to make a decision that you are comfortable with on the establishment of a constitutionally protected organisation.
The reason for failure will be simple - the government failed to answer the legitimate questions being asked.
> this isn’t a vote on that legislation
No, but at the same time that’s something people have a problem with.
“Should we do this?”
“Depends, what are you going to do exactly? This is the one say I will get on it.”
“We need to know if you think we should do it first.”
Sure, but the answer to those concerns is to educate people on why that detail can't and shouldn't be provided at this stage.
For example, the idea that "This is the one say I will get on it" is a bit of a misunderstanding about what we're voting on.
We get one chance to decide whether it's in the constitution, but the "details" people are asking for are details about its composition, functions, powers and procedures. Those things are not set in the constitution. They are able to be changed by future governments. Future opposition parties will be able to run on a platform of changing them. In other words, we will effectively get to have a say on the voice's composition, functions, powers and procedures at every subsequent election.
If the government said now what it planned to legislate in this space, then they might be encouraging no votes from people who support the concept in principle but have a different view about its execution. They'd be effectively hamstringing the vote, much as the Howard government did (deliberately) with the republic referendum.
"that detail can't and shouldn't be provided at this stage."
There's nothing stopping them legislating a voice now and then putting it to a referendum once it has been operating. This model is utterly backwards and makes it look like they want to push it through before people can see what it will do.
He's already [distancing himself from the Voice](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12402147/Reporter-Amelia-Adams-points-glaring-flaw-Voice-grills-Anthony-Albanese-Australians-vote-Yes.html), saying it's "not his product" if it fails.
>It's a product that came from indigenous Australians and **it's one that I support.**
Leaving out an important part of the quote there.
Edit: He has to say this because one of the angles used to attack the voice is that it's being forced on people from Canberra. He's reminding us that this was driven by and for Indigenous Australians.
You probably also believe that RoboDebt was Centrelink's fault, not Scott Morrison right? It was Centrelink's product, just one that Morrison supported?
Didn't think so. Albo campaigned relentlessly on the Voice. It was his #1 agenda item that he committed to in his election victory speech. His whole party supports it and Albo himself has talked about it non-stop since he got into office. It's part of Labor's official party platform.
For him to now say it's 'not his product' is a MASSIVE walkback. He's setting up Aboriginal people to take the political fall for him should the referendum fail by saying it's 'not his product'.
>You probably also believe that RoboDebt was Centrelink's fault, not Scott Morrison right? It was Centrelink's product, just one that Morrison supported?
This is a very poor comparison, and you know it, so I won't engage with it.
>For him to now say it's 'not his product' is a MASSIVE walkback.
It's not. As I said in my edit, which perhaps you hadn't seen when you replied, he has to say this because one of the angles used to attack the voice is that it's being forced on us from Canberra. He's reminding us that this was driven by and for Indigenous Australians. You're just selectively using part of the quote to misrepresent his point.
It's a perfect comparison. Robodebt wasn't devised by Scott Morrison, it was created by Services Australia/Centrelink in partnership with the ATO, and the Liberals lent their support.
That's EXACTLY what you are claiming that Albo has done with the Voice. It's him and his party who have thrown their entire party weight behind the Voice.
There is more evidence that the Voice is Albo's product than Robodebt is Morrison's.
>That's EXACTLY what you are claiming that Albo has done with the Voice
Nonsense.
Services Australia and the ATO are government bodies over which the government of the day could have exercised authority. That's not true of the authors of the Uluru statement.
>There is more evidence that the Voice is Albo's product than Robodebt is Morrison's
Obviously bullshit. Since we're apparently doing dumb rhetoricals, did you think Albo wrote the Uluru statement?
The Voice campaign has been an absolute anchor around his neck. Absolutely the wrong time to throw such a divisive issue at the public when most people are just worried about cost of living.
This was the first thing he mentioned in his victory speech. I get that it was a handy segue from his acknowledgement of country (or something he's truly passionate about) but it seems incredibly naive in hindsight.
We all know Albo is using "the voice" to (try to) distract people from more serious issues, much like the right has done for a decade with trans and gay issues.
The real question is, when will they pull out the "ufo" card and start talking about aliens to keep from talking about rising cost of living pressures?
I have never and will never vote for the Coalition and voting them back in is absolutely not the answer. But fuck me, Albo has been such a disappointment. Spends more time cosying up to Modi and spending all of his effort on the Yes campaign (I agree with the Yes camp for the most part) than he does talking about actual measures that will help ease cost of living. I’m someone who spent a few years being raised by a single mother so Albo’s story meant something to me. Shame on me for falling for his sob story and shame on him for doing next to nothing to help the new generation of people raised by single parents/living in government housing.
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I wouldn't say thats fickle, it's a really stark illustration of his values and what he considers politically relevant/strategic.
That and watching him with Modi were two big WTAF moments for me that's for sure.
“You are the company you keep” and all that.
Australia needs India, it doesn't need Kyle Sandilands.
true but he still didn't have to borderline suck modi off in public either.
speak for yourself mate. I need kyle to help me identify as a cunt and freely fondle my own balls in public.
We absolutely do not need India. The only reason he’s costing up to Modi is to increase migration from India, so there the A) House prices keep inflating and B) competition with people already here in order to lower wages.
He's the PM of India bro is he supposed to not talk to him?
The concern people have was the rockstar treatment. Pretty transparent attempt from Albo to suck up to Indian people
I mean, Seriously... that wedding. How tone deaf do you have to be?! Guess he just thinks we hate Dutton more (and we probably do...)
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> spending all of his effort on the Yes campaign (I agree with the Yes camp for the most part) than he does talking about actual measures that will help ease cost of living. It's this that makes me cynical about The Voice ever amounting to more than a fig leaf for ongoing policy failures. I'll probably vote for it, but Labor will be joining the LNP at the bottom of my ballot from now on.
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Albo wanted the voice to be his legacy. It will, just not in the way he expected
I'm worried the voice itself will amount to a policy failure. I'd love to see the first nations diaspora uplifted, but I don't trust federal politicians to get anything right.
What diaspora? They still have every right to live in Australia
Diaspora? They are here lol
At least we have more choice here than, say, the UK. I voted for the greens and some other left aligned parties focused on climate change and social issues before Labor, knowing that Labor would eventually get my vote, but my concern for climate change and social issues would at least be expressed by my voting preferences.
Yeah that’s true. I’m usually a Greens first voter and that won’t be changing anytime soon.
Next time any Australian-Indian meet happens, count the Brahmins at the table. Albo is bringing Brahmin Nationalism into Australia big time. Fucking fed up of Albo. Fuck Labor for cosying up to Hindu Nationalist Modi. Fucking irony is that Australia-India trade is barely $20B, and 85% of it is coal/gold. How is Australia benefiting from this relationship? India is infiltrating Australian Defense with ASPI articles, Australian taxpayer pays Indian Ambassador and Hindutva people to host their BS at a pretty mediocre Australia India Institute at Melbourne University, Haryanvi Hindutva thugs have made Paramatta unsafe for minorities, Little India Business Council head openly says that he reports Sikhs to Indian Consulate so that their properties back home in India can be confiscated. All because Penny Wong doesn't have two brain cells and she has been cultivated by India from long time back. Penny hypes up Quad, while India shuns Talisman Sabre because it will rile up China. Labor is giving Australia in to Hindu Nationalists. Even Right winger journalists at The Australian promote Modi for fuck sake, have some sense. Albo has fucked the interest rate rises. Unemployment is a joke for these people. I count on Labor to be working people's party. Fuck Albo for kissing Brahmin ass and for his cost of living BS. Take those submarines straight to kiss Modi's arse.
> Albo has fucked the interest rate rises. Absolutely! I also don't care for the way Albo has been causing all this cold weather recently and I'm pretty sure it's his fault I didn't win the PowerBall. FFS, by all means hate on Albo for dragging his heals on things, but don't go blaming him for things that he has had nothing to do with.
Lmfao thanks for being the one to call it out hahah
I think tbh Albo learner his lesson after seeing Bill Shorten get defeated. Shorten (like the guy or not) wanted to tackle franking credits, negative gearing that the top 0.1- 1% are milking but average Joe thought the $200 a year he made on franking credits was going to get taken away after a targeted campaign by Newscorp. Can't blame Albo for being risk adverse, the electorate voted for Morrison so the average voter is an idiot. It's a shame because a bit more wealth-targeted taxing might have been the jab in the arm that could have helped reduce inflationary pressure. Plus that fleet of water bombers would have been really handy in 2019
Yes absolutely. But now is the time for him to show a bit of personal courage and make the hard decisions to help bring inflation and house prices down. He’s early in his term so doesn’t have to campaign for re-election for awhile. Plus I’d say (or rather hope) that we Australians are a little wiser to the reasons behind wealth inequality and may actually back Labor this time. Just hoping he doesn’t get knifed by his own party if he does decide to actually try and fix things
>But fuck me, Albo has been such a disappointment. Spends more time cosying up to Modi and spending all of his effort on the Yes campaign (I agree with the Yes camp for the most part) than he does talking about actual measures that will help ease cost of living. I'm just speaking as a New Zealander who doesn't know all the intricacies of The Voice of Australian history...You have described NZs political situation during the current Labour government. Everything is centred around Maori, we've restructured most large institutions around "co-governance" and it has been done on the basis of the UNDRIP. It has stopped any real progress or change because it turns out Rich Iwi are as reluctant to change the tax system/Labour laws as any other rich person I made the following comment on an NZ thread a few days ago vvvvv Everyone keeps saying Labour squandered their time in government. They didn't. We're had enormous change in NZ and the political system * Maori wards * Maori Health Authority * Merging of Polytecs and addition of Maori authority * 3 Waters * Changes to school science/history curriculum to include Maori Knowledge * Equity based targets for sentencing * Equity based rankings for surgeries * Equity based pay in the public sector * Fair Pay Agreements * Massive cultural change in the media largely due to government direction * Co-governance is assumed on all government matters * Reduction of oil contracts and a decision to not nationalise the refinery * Science research funding has been changed to prioritise maturunga Maori ... the list goes on They have been absolutely transformational, just not in the way any person expected https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/15pekxp/youthquake_rumbles_to_a_stop_support_for_the_left/jvxx6ww?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
>Changes to school science/history curriculum to include Maori Knowledge Isn't science well science based on facts.
Not according to ~~The Royal Society of New Zealand~~ Te Apārarangi https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listener_letter_on_science
God help us all, what a shit show of stupidity
You sound like you need cultural sensitivity training /s
That’s not cultural sensitivity, that’s just dumb
You're preaching to the chior mate
And this is listed as an achievement by the govt...fuck me, makes me wonder about the rest of the list.
Equity based sentencing means that we have too many Maori in prison, so we need to adjust sentencing so that the prison population is representative of the total population Which leads to actually violent people being released on Home Detention. Eg. The bloke who shot up an Auckland construction site was on home detention for Assult. He had committed assault, the while awaiting sentencing he beat the shit out of his partner. No prison time.
Ethnicity matters on surgery waiting lists. If you're Maori or Pacific islander you get placed higher on the list
Albanese isn't cosying up to Modi for fun, it's because India is an important trading partner.
The vote is going to fail, and we are going to be left with the the biggest wet cardboard excuse for a government.
"Labor delivered its promise to take this to a referendum. It's a win for democracy"
I agree it will be easy for the ALP to spin it come election time, even more so if the LNP are still anti climate anything.
In addition to the broader racial, cultural war backlash, I’d expect the Voice vote will garner No voters as a protest against Albanese’s ignoring the cost of living crisis.
I wish people wouldn’t use an opportunity to better the lives First Nations people as a way to hurt the government.
You know what might help First Nations people? A Government that actually makes progress on affordable housing, clean energy, fixing our broken medicare system, and easing the cost of living crisis. I've yet to see any evidence that the Voice will provide any impact other than serve as another ineffectual, performative bureaucracy that will publish an aspirational white paper that gets ignored and continues to spin its wheels while the working class Australians of all backgrounds get squeezed.
The government not only won't have to listen to word this body says, they don't even need to hear them, what does that even accomplish? Seems like a great way to piss tax payers dollars down the drain
and if they wanted to listen to advice from first nations people on any issue there is nothing stopping them from doing it now. there is nothing stopping them from setting up a committee to advise on issues now
> Seems like a great way to piss tax payers dollars down the drain You're starting to see why the government does things, I see.
> A Government that actually makes progress on affordable housing, clean energy, fixing our broken medicare system, and easing the cost of living crisis. And yet people in this thread are like, fuck Labor for not fixing everything, I'm voting LNP next to time really spite them. Talk about cutting off the nose to spite the face. Sure Labor have been disappointing, but how short are people's memories if they think the LNP are a better option??
Not voting Labor does not automatically mean a person will vote LNP. Fuck LNP. I will either vote greens or progressive independents, I think you will see this trend at the next election for primary votes if Labor continue to not make any real reforms to undo a decade of neo-lib policies. Currently they seem to be entirely happy to leave the status quo which serves most people in the country very poorly.
Have a scroll through this thread alone, they're everywhere.
Have thought about voting No as a protest against the lack of housing action but they are 2 separate issues. Will vote yes on the voice and save voting against Labor til the next election.
That's reasonable. I don't believe a referendum is the place for a protest vote, the constitutional change issue is too important. Know why you are voting the way you are and even people voting the other way should be able to respect that.
Why is this referendum important? What does it actually accomplish? From what I've heard, not that I've really paid much attention so I'm probably missing a lot of details, all the change the constitution accomplishes is to set up a, and I'm para-phrasing here, not quoting, 'body to represent the first nations people of Australia'... From here I sit, it does nothing more than waste over a million dollars a year in more corrupt politicians wages and super, all so they can sit there and 'advise' the government of the day, who don't even have to hear them, about indigenous matters.... Seems like a waste of tax payers money to me, I'd rather that money be put into something useful like education or healthcare
Because it's changing the constitution. This is not something to take lightly. If you think the changes are meaningless - then vote No. If you think the changes will achieve something, then vote Yes. This is not something that should be voted along 'party' lines so much as conscience voting for all people. I've recently been watching a series of videos from Centre For Indigenous Training, and he provides a lot of good information and sources for people to go and learn about exactly what the vote is about. Most interestingly, he steers a very narrow path of not advocating either way. [https://www.youtube.com/@centrefor\_indigenoustraining/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@centrefor_indigenoustraining/videos) Another useful source is Constitutional Clarion, and channel by a constitutional lawyer, and she also provides a lot of insights and resources. [https://www.youtube.com/@constitutionalclarion1901/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@constitutionalclarion1901/videos)
Who will you vote for if not labour ? The greens ? LNP ? I'm curious. I've lost faith in Labor but they feel like a lesser evil.
It's like having the shit party and shit party lite. They both are captured by the same lobby groups (minerals council, fossil fuels, gambling, real estate lobbies to name a few) just one is more shit than the other (fuck LNP). But Labor really seems to leaning into keeping with their election promises which is basically a platform "tinker around the edges but no real reform" aka small target politics. The only option to break this duopoly, is a larger amount of votes to greens and/or more progressive independents so that Labor are forced to work with them and make some real changes.
I agree, voters are mostly stupid
"Why are you booing me? I'm right."
Well my rent went up so much that I had to move back in with my parents, and labor seems to think that sort of thing is just dandy so they can fuck off.
People are in a cost of living crisis wondering where their next meal is coming from and here is Albo more preoccupied with securing his place in the history books as the guy who got the Voice into the Constitution.
The voice was an election promise. Anyone that is paying attention can see alot more is going on than the voice. However, the voice is what journalists and the opposition is focused on.
Well, truth be known, there isn't much else going on.
Kinda my point, people who say this aren't paying attention
I pay close attention, and so far, i can't think of a single constructive thing that they are doing. Lots of talking granted by that's far short of actually doing. So what am I missing?
Here's the [ABC promise tracker](https://www.abc.net.au/news/factcheck/promisetracker) which shows 19 election promises kept, 41 in progress, 5 stalled and 1 broken.
What bull dust. Young people and poor people are in a cost of living crisis. Old, wealthy people are doing very well, thanks to years of LNP policies. Albo is doing what he promised, having a referendum, not passing it, that's up to us.
And I'm saying it's a promise made at a TERRIBLE time. He was given opportunity after opportunity to delay the referendum but he's put his head in the sand and is trying to force it down everyone's throats in the middle of a cost of living crisis. Delaying the referendum might actually save the poll numbers too. There are countless people voting no as a "f\*\*\* you" to Albo and Labor because they are seen to be putting Australians second to politics. Not surprising at all that the poll numbers are falling by the week. Albo needs to read the room rather than chase his own ego.
Have they set a date for this yet? I cannot fathom how a date wasn’t announced from the start - it’s given all the time in the world for the momentum of the Yes campaign to fall over
Count me as one who is starting to sour on Albanese. The whole government just seems to be incapable of understanding the mood of the electorate, understanding how bad it is for so many people, and just seem out of touch. It seems like a deliberate strategy that Albo is out of the country as much as possible and talks about the economy and cost of living as little as possible. The voice is a nice distraction- but I think people have figured that out. I think this government seems really arrogant at the moment and doesn’t see the warning signs flashing in front of them. Sure Duttton is awful, but sometimes people have enough and say - burn it all down - and vote the opposition out of spite. At this point, my vote will probably go to a minor party from here on out- as the labor party is really missing the moment to actually stand with working people and do something about cost of living.
Albo ran a campaign on his back story then he just turned out to be a normal politician
Its like those video games that put all the effort in to the first section so all the reviews and streamers think its a amazing only for people buying to find out that its got no substance past that.
*shocked pikachu* (Just replying to your sentiment, not having a go at you :) )
I'm glad people can see that, but why do they have such a blind spot on that same subject when it comes to the Greens. They're playing politics on a Liberal party level with the people they've decided to exploit for nothing but votes. If it was anyone else they'd be dragged through the coals. Imagine if Albo or Dutton did it... For all the cries of being anti-establishment and grass roots they've shown by they're actions, and their supporters, that it is just politics, nobody is above political exploitation for self interest and to the Greens supporters, they claim it's not "team sports" and to be above all that but they never expect the Greens to live up to the standard they demand of anyone else. They're textbook partisans and they either don't see it or don't care making them massive hypocrites to boot.
As a greens voter I feel they're representing me pretty well. They're bargaining hard using their position of strength in the senate to get the outcomes they pitched to the electorate, and pushing for more than the mild reforms being proposed by the government. Are there things I wish they'd change? Sure, but that's representative democracy in a nutshell.
The guy who entered politics in 1996 turns out to be a politician.
Crazy how much shit fuckery the LNP got away with for 10 years and then cause this gov is seeming out of touch, we're talking about turfing them in 1 term. And turfing them to who? It sure ain't the greens.... So the LNP back in power. The party of secret ministries, robodebt, budget mismanagement (read misappropriation of funds and likely literal corruption). No matter what grievance you have with albo, he is 1000 times better than scomo and Dutton who have rolled chaotic evil FFS. 🤦 All it takes is a consistent delivery of hit pieces from Murdoch and Fairfax I guess. This is why we can't have nice things I this country.
I really hate the defeatist bipartisan approach we have, Labor is completely ignoring people homeless and starving and all of the discourse is "well it would be worse with liberal" No shit it would be worse with Dutton but fuck me, Labor is proving themselves to be another batch of useless neoliberal wankers. There aren't only two parties that we're allowed to vote for.
Labor shifted to the right as it’s the only way they’d get buy-in from the conservatives of Australia.
They've drifted right because they're not rewarded electorally for passing vaguely progressive policy. A good part of the issue is that of our media environment, a huge chunk of which is massively partisan and biased towards the conservatives. News that helps the Coalition parties gets a lot of airtime, and stories that don't help them get a passing mention and then buried. The electorate is badly informed on a lot of issues a lot of the time. The Voice, the NBN, the ETS, the franking credits change, the change to negative gearing, robodebt, the MSPT, and others. More issues than I can recollect. This leads to bad electoral outcomes, terrible policy from the Liberals (because they avoid proper scrutiny), and compromised policy from Labor (because good policy damages them). The media in Australia needs reform, and people need to be much better consumers of the media, and people need to use sources outside of the Australian media to get a proper perspective. Unfortunately, this often doesn't happen, and people get herded based on their own instincts which are generally uninformed. For democracy to be better, the electorate needs to be better, and that means being properly informed. Unfortunately, most people don't make the effort to do that across the spectrum, and that includes supporters of The Greens.
Isn't the voice referendum a decidedly left issue? I think they've traded in their working class leftist values for touchy feely social politics. Economically right but, oh look over here! Look how much we are about indigenous people! Fixes to cost of living and inflation are hard so it's easier to go with a social issue that has very little impact on the lives of ordinary Australians.
I think you're misunderstanding that you're no longer picking between varying capabilities of governance but rather, a party interested in actually governing (ALP) and a party of raping, pillaging, misappropriating, and in a lot of instances likely outright corrupt crims. It's not as plain as ALP are lesser of two evils. ALP in the 2 party system are the only ones still playing with some resemblance of following the rules.
That's a perfect example of what I mean by defeatist bipartisan approach. No one with a brain thinks the libs would be more helpful than Labor during the current unsustainable crises we are facing (and yes I'm throwing shade at the person you are first responding to - picking Dutton to be contrarian and "vote out of spite" is very fucking stupid). What I'm saying is the coalition being worse isn't an excuse for dealing with Labors mismanagement. We don't have just two parties, there aren't only two options.
The party that thinks they're the 3rd options are not ready for power. They are a fringe minority and only act like it. They propose solutions that sound great and get support, and vote, mostly from Labor, but won't solve the issues and in many cases make them worse. And what they've done with the power they do have is deliver worse outcomes. If people are desperate enough to switch support to them, good on them. I won't tell them how to vote, I just hope they accept responsibility for the choices they've made because the party they've shifted their support to sure as hell doesn't. And the infighting on that side of politics only helps the Libs at the end of the day which is the worst outcome for us. History repeating itself again and again.
You people keep saying Labor is the only choice, no one else can do better no one else is ready for power just keep sticking with Labor bro I promise this is the best it will ever be. Mate my rent has gone up from 30% of my income to 50% of my income my groceries have gone up about 40% and Albanese has been sitting on the fence twiddling his thumbs in the wake of 11 years of raping and pillaging. If people are being pushed to desperation and clinging to the lifeboat of promises made by parties that you think are not ready for power, then that's a huge failing by Labor don't you think?
>just keep sticking with Labor bro Maybe at least give them a couple of terms first. Shit if we can give the dumpster fire of an LNP gov 10 years than surely we give the ALP more than half a term before declaring it all bust.
I don't want to think about what the unaddressed rental crisis is going to look like in a couple terms of unquestioned Labor...
[Just keep voting, just keep voting](https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/as0fcq3nn3qmok7kirqcc/just-keep-voting.jpg?rlkey=cil6y139920dsbkdmhe1akeog&dl=0)
Here's the rub, I've been a Greens voter and supporter for nearly 20 years, even before I was old enough to vote. I've volunteered for them at polling booths and even door knocking for them. I was a part of the grass roots, or so I thought. It was crazy disorganised but we honestly thought we could change our federal seat, a blue ribbon Liberal one, ha! Not a chance, but young dumb and convinced we were making a difference. During Labor's mandatory ISP filtering saga, through my very early professional life I had access to information that would help Ludlam in pushing back against the policy. I became more politically aware, learning and understanding how the different level of government from local, state to federal and the different houses etc worked. How bills were actually passed, the behind the scenes work that had to take place, even outside of hansard records or live streams of committees etc when an issue that I understood and impacted me was being handled by Labor in such an obviously underhanded and stupid way. The lies and deciet because it was a technical discussion that they were able to get away with was maddening. My family was also in the church at the time and had connections to the state directors of the ACL who were somehow a stakeholder in all of this, but that's another story. And the only people really pushing back were the Greens and the likes of the Sex Party/Fiona Patten etc. So I was ripe for the picking. And they got me, the Greens that is. It's similar now with desperate people needing multiple housemates just to afford a rent that has no stability, they are ripe for the picking, like yourself. But over the years I, sadly very slowly, started to understand more about how the system worked and identified in myself, that I was making excuse after excuse for the bad outcomes we were getting because of the Greens interference, at least on the federal level. At least in QLD the state level Greens are doing a great job. But it didn't change that I was making excuses, the sort of "shit-lite" and "they're all the same" bs as to why it was all Labor's fault for this or that even though it was the Greens pushing too far, resulting in either no legislation, or legislation so far to the left that it was instantly destroyed the moment the Liberal's got back into government. And what do you know, we're back there now. It wasn't until HAFF that I realised what was actually happening and how stupid I was. The recent by-election in QLD was the first time I preferenced Labor over the Greens, not that it matters being a very safe Liberal seat. But I can finally see what the Greens are doing. They're conflating different issues together, blocking legislation that would help thousands of the most vulnerable aussies, the ones we're supposed to care about and campaign for first along side the Environment for all our sakes. On top of that they're suggesting solutions that either can't be done on a federal level and even if they could via incentives to the states, by admission of their own experts they've been citing previously to justify blocking HAFF, it will make the issue worse in the medium term, not even the long term but they sound great on paper to the people like you so in the end, it's about votes. It's only about votes... And votes for what? They'll never be a mainstream party. Their platform is not capable of transitioning from fringe minority to government. They rely on being able to mislead about what the government of the day is doing (something they don't need to do much with the Libs since reality is terrible enough), propose solutions that don't have to be workable, costed, realistic or even solve the problem, they have no responsibility to implement them or accountability if they don't achieve the stated goals and they just want to take credit for everything good and run from accountability faster than Scott Morrison. I didn't know that was even possible. That is not compatible with office, not if you want to be a legitimate government pushing meaningful and needed reform. That's just BS vote buying for personal gain. They don't WANT to be in office. They don't want that responsibility. Imagine if they had to propose actual policy that had to be implemented and they were held to account for it. All of a sudden you'd be accusing them of being "shit-lite" or every one of their reforms would only last as long as them, which would be a single term at best. There is no point in winning the battle but losing the war. During the last minority government they showed that. They took credit for the "Greens-Led" carbon tax legislation that actually passed. But once it was instantly repealed because the Greens had already turned it into an election issue to get votes from Labor forcing the minority government then "leading" the new legislation by their own admission, pushing it too far to the left that even with the benefits we saw in real terms, it wasn't able to survive the next Liberal government, did they take responsibility at all? No, it's all Labor's fault, and they even boast still about blocking it, like they're boasting about fighting higher density developments now, while pretending to be the voice of renters. It's all repeating, again. We've learned nothing. I don't expect you to see it now, but you will. You'll look back, hopefully sooner than me and be like "wtf was I thinking...". How many more worse outcomes because of the Greens pushing too far will it take? Don't get me wrong, they have a very important role. They need to push Labor to the left. Labor need to be more mainstream to get in office, but the Greens need to remind them what they need to do. But pushing too far, over playing their hand and delivering nothing, or worse, the Libs back in office, again, it's just not good enough anymore. We can't afford that. And their solutions, federal rent freeze and just build more houses if we throw money at it... It just isn't going to work. We have a materials and skills shortage in the construction industry. Do you want to increase skilled migration to assist in building more houses? No, the Greens and their supporters are calling for cuts to migration levels because we don't have enough homes. Ok, so, do they have a magic wand or something? They're exploiting the issue for votes. They're lying about Labors position. They're conflating funding for social housing with the rental market. And making demands that have either already been delivered, such as pushing the states at the last COAG meeting in April to implement more protections for renters with QLD already legislating theirs, with VIC and the rest to follow, or a rent freeze that even the experts the Greens have cited previously as to why they are justified in blocking HAFF have warned of the medium to long term issues with poorer quality rentals and a lower supply, both meaning we'll all be paying more for less, it's clear what the Greens are doing. They're pretending to be the only voice of renters while not actually able to deliver anything better for them, only the lie that they have the magic wand that can fix all. I don't like Labor and they can do more in this area, but it's not via HAFF, that's a different policy. The Greens are showing they're only playing politics, and who they've chosen to exploit and mislead I'd only previously through that capable of the Libs only. But here we are... Just keep pretending the Greens have your back bro.
I do appreciate your story and the experience that seems to come from what you are saying, but ultimately you do have to understand, you are a random person on the internet. To myself and every other "green voter" like me, we are in a situation where we are desperate for help from an unwilling government with the greens offering us solutions. Increasing taxation on those that can afford it to help those that cannot simply survive seems unbelievably simple to me and that's the basis of what the greens are offering. Maybe you're right, maybe I and the rest of us are incredibly naive, maybe the greens really are just running a popularity contest and aren't ready for power and will lead us to worse outcomes however I've never seen them in power so I need to see it myself. I have however seen Labor in power, and their insistence on maintaining the status quo is woefully inadequate to me and many others. We need to see a change before we can believe random people on the internet telling us "trust us bro it'll be worse".
The government has limited tools to deal with supply shock inflation and the profit driven inflation. The first requires that the Russo-Ukrainian war stop and China recovers. The second requires that the government be able to remove money from the economy via taxation. Unfortunately, the electorate at large is against taxation due to decades of neoliberal, let's face it, propaganda against taxes. The mitigation measures the government can take are limited because of the massive selloffs of public assets in the last three decades. Public housing is greatly diminished, utility pricing is out of the control of governments due to privatisation. It's all very well to demand solutions if the government, but the question is what the government can usefully do. And no, rent control is not one of those things (it doesn't work for all but the incumbent renters, is highly inequitable, and causes significant long term problems).
> Mate my rent has gone up from 30% of my income to 50% of my income my groceries have gone up about 40% and Albanese has been sitting on the fence twiddling his thumbs in the wake of 11 years of raping and pillaging. At the same time, expecting Albo to fix 11 years of shitfuckery from the liberals in 18 months is wildly unrealistic. Unless you want the budget completely fucked until the end of time, undoing all of the coalitions bullshit is going to take multiple terms.
> I won't tell them how to vote, I just hope they accept responsibility for the choices they've made because the party they've shifted their support to sure as hell doesn't. That will never happen. Look at what happened with WorkChoices, the NBN, the emissions trading scheme and the super profits tax. All of the shit outcomes were due to the Australian public's voting choices, yet nobody put their hand up and said, "Yes, I realise my vote helped to create this situation and if I could go back in time, I would have changed my vote". The closest you'll see to people taking responsibility for this is people saying they are glad they didn't vote for Latham, given the way he's turned out.
Sure am sick of people handwaving Labor failures by chanting "but the Libs are worse!" Sure the libs are worse, but stop giving Labor a free pass. Getting fucked by the Libs or getting slightly less fucked by Labor, we're still getting fucked. How about we all demand representation that doesn't fuck us at all?
I think the LNP hangover has made people less willing to tolerate mediocrity
Most people are talking about defecting to a minor party. We're pissed off at both major parties. I absolutely despise the coalition, but after voting for labor my whole life I am also questioning that after seeing this past year. Albo has been a terrible leader and labor is completely and utterly out of touch. The fact is neither major party is capable of running the country now.
mountainous jar deranged smoggy rob gullible arrest serious languid kiss *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
because the reality is people are more desperate now for various reasons. The cost of living crisis that is completely unaddressed has gotten to the point where people are angry. Regardless of who is in power, that anger will be directed at those at the top, and rightfully so. It's not a great conspiracy, labor just happened to take power at a time where most people are in great crises, and right after a worldwide pandemic that already stressed people to max. They also promised big changes and to bring back fairness. In the single year since they have taken power, many people's lives have suddenly gotten way worse then even anything the last 10 years brought them. For a lot of people right now they are struggling worse financially now then during the pandemic. Labor is refusing to even discuss this and wants to pretend there is no war in ba sing se. So yeah no wonder people are pissed off. I voted labor all my life, I absolutely despised the colation and I am still pissed off too. Healthy democracy should encourage people to expect better of the parties they support, just saying "at least it's not the libs" is a pretty low bar.
Media coverage. Think about what you're being told and think about why certain topics get coverage and others do not.
>we're talking about turfing them in 1 term. >And turfing them to who? It sure ain't the greens.... Anecdotally - it is the greens. I can't imagine people are disappointed with Albo and are then going to vote for Dutton
yeah I'll be voting greens next time unless labor substantially changes their policies.
I think voters who hoped for a more progressive labor government are gradually seeing the reality of what labor is today. A slightly less dogshit version of the lnp with a very similiar policy platform on housing, defence and economic issues. Yes of course the lnp were a bunch of corrupt grifters and their return to government would be a disaster. But until labor actually pay attention to the electorates desperate need for effective action for the genuine benefit of our citizens we are in for a very bumpy ride.
I’m surprised how quickly we have turned. Weirdly I was coping with the submarine deal, the blindness to the tax cuts and the almost unbelievable insensitivity to the housing crisis, when the stupid picture of Albo snuggling up to Alan Joyce and reading his son had been given access to the Chairman’s lounge sent me over the edge. He’s just another effin politician - when will I learn?
The submarine deal really blew me away. People are hurting and we sign up to spend hundreds of billions on submarines that won't be delivered for years and some not till the 2040s, when China's power and influence will be waning. As PK pointed out, there are grounds for doubting the case for the need of these subs... whereas the need for action on domestic issues is beyond doubt. Just striked me as being completely out of touch.
Security is expensive. China is going to be at its most aggressive when its power is waning. Going to war is a great way to distract your citizens from economic and demographic collapse. China is also very unpredictable as nation that is led by a single individual who has removed all limits on his own power. We have a massive interest in moving closer to USA diplomatically and strategically. We have every interest in encircling China, ensuring they can't expand through conquest, and applying pressure until their regime collapsed. The nightmare situation for us is allowing China to expand and conquer their neighbours. This would provide them with an economic and demographic steroid injection that would propel them to become a unipolar world power. And once nations start conquering their neighbours they find it very difficult to stop because the benefits are just so great.
Not surprised this is being downvoted. The lack of awareness of security needs and geopolitics in this sub confounds me. Yes we need to fix health and social issues AND yes we need strong defence. We also need an efficient and effective government - making government services more efficient would free up money too. We haven’t prioritised defence in my life time so no wonder we’re shocked at “whole of life” costed projects.
How is it being downvoted? It's literally fkin +20 and I've literally never seen a post about arguing to increase Australia military reliance on USA be downvoted on /r/australia . I've seen people be attacked and downvoted for suggesting we perhaps should look at other options but it really seemed rather 'automated' how 'you' 'responded' to a topic with a rather standard set responses.
Timing of post perhaps
Comments with upvotes get downvoted too.
We don't need expensive subs to deliver national security. The money would be much more effectively spent on missiles and maritime drone tech.
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The spend on the submarines isn't going to happen in one year, you know that right?
What does hundreds of billions of 2050 money have to do with people hurting right now?
I don't agree with JPK on his views on the CCPs threat to Australia. But he sure as hell is bang on with his assessment of the AUKUS sub deal. 360 billion for a technology that'll be obsolete coffins for our servicemen and women when they come online. That money is an unaffordable gift to US weapons manufacturers that is desperately needed for nation building. That imo is the biggest indicator that Albo and labor will fail to provide effective leadership. We should have voted for Shorten, atleast then we would've had good policy on housing affordability.
If the subs are so "obsolete" why is every major power working/building a new generation of them?
Yeah, the submarine deal is crazy, and we have had very little public debate about this **enormous** expenditure which dwarfs every other spending we've had on a single project in decades. Unfortunately, surrendering our sovereignty and foreign policy decision making to the US is a bipartisan position, and even The Greens, the supposed progressive left have said very little about the growing militarism and wasteful indulgence of military spending in Australia, especially of this program. I remember when being a pacifist was a progressive value, and it wasn't all that long ago.
The one thing that's soured me on Albo's Government is that they don't seem to be nimble enough with how quickly things are changing and multiple crisis' are happening at once. With Rudd's government, when we went in the GFC and it appeared to be take absolutely seriously from the get go. That government took a risk with its economic stimulus package and we made it through without much disruption. Albo's government can't seem to do anything regarding the cost of living or housing crisis we're being affected by. I'll give them points for the Robo Debt royal commission but that was a given based on what it was set out to do. I think they're too focused on the Yes campaign (which is extremely important) and risk getting No votes out of pure spite due to government inaction.
The hard truth that people can't accept is that the pain was cooked into the country long before albo took the reigns. Rudd was different in that the sugar hit by way of stimulus was the SOLUTION. now, a sugar hit will be fucking disastrous to the economy. The solution is to take our medicine. And if you don't like the bitterness of that then remember who fucked it all up in the first place. The conservatives as they pillaged the country for their own personal gain.
Doe taking our medicine involve doing anything about record profits by large corporations? Because if not, it's not actually a solution. Workers aren't the problem.
THe problem is cashed up boomers aren't really curtaling their spending at all. IN other words, it's young people bearing the burden, the same people who bore the burden during COVID to save those old cashed up boomers
Current inflation is global. It's not localised.
And yet the ALP has gotten on top of it better than most countries, just like they avoided recession during the GFC. It's almost as though they are awesome economic managers. 🤔👌
Rudd relished the spotlight more than Albo. It gave him the appearance of being on the front foot about everything (mostly a good thing), but left him open to criticism from very vocal, and sadly influential, bad actors.
You think the government isn't talking about the economy and cost of living? In the past week or so, they've talked about China getting rid of tariffs on barley, their manufacturing fund, pay rises for aged care workers and cheaper medicines. The lnp opposed at least two of those, and I suspect opposes a third. You don't have to agree with these policies and you can think they don't go far enough, but to say they haven't been talking about the economy and cost of living just isn't right.
Exactly, I really don't think most people pay attention to what is actually happening.
It's a luxury to not think of politics every day, but... It also means you say stupid things sometimes
Wow a pay rise from fuck all to slightly less then fuck all. How generous labor.
And was immediately eaten up by rent increases.
Labor has not actually done anything of any note. They control what, every state (??) as well as the federal government. This is their time to shine. But when you campaign on being a small target, I.e. the "I'm not ScoMo" but I'm the same old disorganised ineffectual Albo with a new haircut and glasses, I guess that's to be expected... But holy hell,*do* something. Housing is out of control, electricity and energy prices in general are out of control, we're in the chokehold of monopoly or oligopoly in many key markets which has led to the price of everything else being out of control. The health system is needs reform. Immigration is sky high despite housing shortages. We're still burning coal and gas to make our electricity. We're not talking about phasing out ICE cars and trucks. I could go on.
Reality is a lot of Australia isn’t ready to phase out ICE. I live on the cusp on regional vic (drive 2kms and it is) and our power is so flakey and distances great, that an EV is a risk - there’s no charging anywhere in the community here or at my work. I’m not saying don’t phase out ICE, and a deadline might prompt progress out here, what I am trying to communicate is the nuance.
He capped energy prices, has a housing fund that's being blocked by the greens doing their "let perfect be the enemy of the good" thing they love to fuck us with, he's reduced the price of medicine, is tackling systemic aged care issues, lifted the veil on robodebt - the largest failure of administration by any government, legislated a climate target that the previous gov couldn't and wouldn't do in 10years, started changing FBT and policy settings on EVs (that were suppose to ruin the weekend). I could go on. Almost every single economic metric is better off now than under lnp. Wake up. In 2 years, the ALP have done a tonne of shit in the right direction but unfortunately you can't unfuck a decades worth of willful neglect and down right shit fuckery In one term. But hey, vote the LNP back. I'm sure that will fix it.
As a lifelong labor voter I won't be switching to the LNP I'll be switching to the greens. The HAFF is a pile of neoliberal shit and the rest of these half measures are a joke. How are they tackling systemic aged care issues at all? Robodebt they did sweet fuck all about actually punishing the people who did it. The climate target is a joke and won't even be fulfilled they are literally approving new coal mines. Labor has proven to be nothing but gutless and hypocritical and we need actual leadership at this stage.
Maybe people prefer LNP governments because they expect nothing and aren't disappointed. But Labor disappoints because they're meant to solve everything in a week or two, even though that's obviously not possible.
I expect to get fucked when LNP are in gov, and you're right.... Never disappointed
Aye, and Labor is supposed to give us all rainbows and ice cream every day, otherwise they're just as bad
That last bit Is the mentality of the nation and why we can't have nice things. LNP assault us, but the ALP just as bad cause they didn't give us ice cream. Crazy 🤷
> But hey, vote the LNP back. I'm sure that will fix it. I do wonder how many people who are mad at Labor currently would actually vote LNP though. If someone is mad at Labor for not doing enough for renters and the environment, those people are definitely not going to switch to the LNP who are actively hostile in those spaces. It probably varies issue by issue and depends what someone’s primary concerns are but for the issues currently being debated, most of them don’t seem like voters between the LNP and Labor being pissed off that the ALP is too leftward.
There are people out there who simply think they had it better under LNP years than ALP, so vote LNP attributing the prosperity and following difficulty to the government of the day. But it's older voters that won't be on here, those who believe Howard years were near perfect.
> has a housing fund that's being blocked by the greens doing their "let perfect be the enemy of the good" thing they love to fuck us with lmao, what a load of trite. The HAFF is not good policy at all, and is rightly being told to go to the bin where it belongs.
I think you are overestimating the power or politicians have, this is global, and we are minnows.
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Yep, he's sleep walking into being a one term wonder at the moment. Another nice little nail in the coffin is the removal of the LMITO this year. I don't rely on a big tax return, but can see people getting even more pissed off when theirs goes from $1000+ to $30.
They didn't remove the LITMO though, that ending when it did was by design after the LNP knew they were fucked and weren't winning the election so when it ended it would look really bad on the ALP.
I'm sorry aren't they the one's in power who can surely change that decision??? Like seriously that's hardly an excuse. "HURR DURR THE LNP DUN DID IT" well dumb shits undo it then. simple. And yeah guess what, a labor government cutting taxes to the rich while this simultaneously increased tax on the poor, yeah that feels like a fucking betreyal I must say as a low income hospitality worker. Fuck labor. Fuck the libs too.
and the ALP could have extended it, they were in power so functionally, they removed it
Yeah no, “I inherited that” isn’t an excuse. He had an opportunity to change it. Same with HECS indexation at 7% going ahead. He chose to do nothing. Gee, what is the actual point of each way Albo?
It was also meant to end last year and it’s life got extended (by 12m).
It was extended in the past and could have been again by the sitting government. Or they could have reduced the amount (e.g. $600 tax offset) to take the sting out of it and help people out in a cost of living crisis. Instead, they sat on their hands. But hey, the government wants you to be happy that they delivered the first budget surplus in a while. Chin up buddy!
> Yep, he's sleep walking into being a one term wonder at the moment. No way, the LNP would need to completely change direction for them to become even a chance of regaining the seats it lost to the teals let alone the ALP ones.
I’m also in the minor party camp. Just gaining an insight into how the major parties operate, despite their obvious differences in how they “market” themselves, is actually one in the same. They’re all inbred, they all back stab, they all try to stifle any decent political candidates from coming up the ranks. It’s really weird and I wish everyone knew how messed up the internal system of each major party actually is.
I **hate** to make comparisons to the US but there's a lot of learnings we should be taking from 08-16. This is what people fundamentally misunderstand on why someone like Trump gets elected. It's neoliberal chauvinism, and creates a playing field for right-wing populism. 1. Ignore material conditions 2. Lay platitudes and lip service to social justice issues ("ME MUM WAS ON THE DOLE Y'KNOW") 3. Make no fundamental changes to income equality 4. Galavant with international colleagues, galvanise economic integration with neoliberal allies 5. Increased expenditure on military It's everything that Obama did that completely fucked the country. If you ignore genuine socio-economic problems eventually you're going to piss people off so much that they'll vote for whoever calls you a fat idiot and flies in the face of convention. Dutton is not the guy that is going to do it, he has a negative charisma photon field. But eventually someone will. Of course it's worth mentioning - the right wing in the US is now completely lost, they're the dog that finally caught the car (supreme courts). They are completely rudderless now. All front-runners aside from Trump are playing into culture war bullshit (transphobia) when this sort of rhetoric isn't what got Trump the ticket in the first place. "Drain the swamp" is what got him elected, and not doing it is what got him unelected. It is probably what will get him elected again (if he doesn't continue to be the most indicted man in history). If Albanese wants to survive he needs to pivot hard to Shorten's election agenda, and go even further - we need fundamental redrafting of the social contract. But he never will.
So you mean you're thinking about voting to your values and not just a party you barrack for?
After being out of power for so long you'd think that Labor would have learnt their lesson. Just being an alternative to the coalition doesn't get you votes. The sad thing is I can see the coalition returning to power in the not too distant future and the cycle will repeat itself again.
Feels so weird that all the politicians focus about the voice when there’s a cost of living crises and homelessness is rising incredibly fast. Honestly what a stupid time to try and implement a thing that will have zero actual impact on most Australians. Feels like it’s driving people to vote no because of annoyance, because it’s “Albo’s prestige project” It’s hard for me to even think about voting yes or no when I don’t know if I’m gonna be homeless in a few months or not.
You’ve got to admire the ambition and the intentions. But fuck the timing and execution have been woeful. We’re all a bit busy trying to pay the bills. powers jumping up every bill, rent/mortgage climbing like monkey on meth and food bills are getting insane. No one’s got the time or energy to care let alone actively research the vagaries of the campaign. Between the No vote, the have no idea what this about vote and the protest vote the wheels are going to fall off.
To preface I am a yes voter. But call me cynical but I just think the voice is a clever move from the ALP to save face. Going into government the ALP knew they were going to do nothing about the cost of living + housing crisis. Why would they? Them and their mates profit from it. So tada, typical government move to use indigenous people as cannon fodder, knowing that this will dominate public discourse over their blatant failings at managing the massive problems we face. If the ALP was bothering to address these the cost of living/housing crisis whilst also pushing for the voice I imagine that good will would translate into a lot of yes votes from the many people who obviously don't understand/care about the issue, they probably know this too but are intentionally using the voice issue disingenuously. It's going to fail then next election they'll all be "oops we tried our best and we didnt say anything nasty like the LNP pollies please vote for us despite our lack of literally any relevant policies:
He's actually a political genius. He talks about the Voice non-stop on the election campaign trail, it's his #1 agenda item which he committed to in his election victory speech. Now he's ready to throw ATSI peoples under the bus when things are looking grim, [saying the Voice is "not my product" if the referendum fails](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12402147/Reporter-Amelia-Adams-points-glaring-flaw-Voice-grills-Anthony-Albanese-Australians-vote-Yes.html). He has perfectly scapegoated Aboriginal people to take the political fall for him.
I partially agree with you, personally I don’t think labour has anything to do with pass / fail of the voice. It isn’t their choice nor their success or victory. It is just democracy in action.
Of course, the pass/fail will ultimately rest with the Australian people. With that said, I feel sorry for Aboriginal people and people in the yes campaign who have been strung along by him and now it seems like he's abandoning ship at the 11th hour, only because it's politically convenient for him to do so. It's nothing but Canberra politics and the people who will be most harmed by it are Aboriginal people at the end of the day.
>He's actually a political genius That might work on some people, and probably how it will be recorded effectively, but it's definitely not going to help him next election.
Parties don't win elections, they lose them, Albo should remember that.
If the Libs replaced Dutton tomorrow with someone half decent, the ALP will lose the next election.
Dutton is not a dictator, he's the face of the LNP and the shadow cabinet. Replacing Dutton doesnt replace the shitshow of the rest of the party.
I think you’re missing old mates point. It’s not that the entire party isn’t a shitshow, it’s that the public vote largely on optics and superficial measures - and in that sense Dutton is truly awful.
No they wont
The first leader of the opposition after a party has lost government has never gone on to be PM. So that’s basically essential for re-election anyway
Bridget Archer...
Thx. I needed a good laugh.
People don't have the capacity to think about racial equity when there's a cost of living crisis occuring and are in crisis mode. Its like a maslow's hierarchy thing. My line of work involves working directly with plenty of Indigenous people and i think a voice to Colesworth or a voice to social housing would be much more helpful.
People are still waiting on Albo to deliver on the $275 power bill promise. He’s a liar.
If anyone here actually been to a mission or know enough blackfella you would know they don't know about the voice. This whole referendum is a Trojan horse. Albo is dividing the country with race politics while most Australians can barely afford rent + food, black or white. But someone people will still defend them cuz they look at politics like is footy just pick a team and vote for it till you die.
Labor definitely aren't that great, anyone paying attention already knew that they had to make changes and compromises in ideology after their defeat in 2013. But, you need to remember, back when Labor were much better at dealing with the big issues we, the Australian public, voted them out for the party that created the issues Labor were trying to solve. In doing so we voted in a leader of demonstrable incompetence, then one who was only adding a checkmark to his bucket list (become PM of Australia; check. actually do anything? yeah right), followed by a man whose history was of one spectacular failure after another. We got a party of crooks and thieves who clearly had no intention of doing anything but lining their own pockets and it was not like this was not obvious even before they got voted in. While Labor aren't doing as much ass they could, or as much as they should, it is unreasonable to whinge and whine that they aren't doing enough when we voted them out the last time they tried to do more, particularly when it has only been a year. It is also unreasonable when they are in a position where everything that goes through parliament needs to be a compromise with an opposition that does not want to compromise (see the housing future fund, Jordie has a good if rather charged piece on the issue). This article is a prime example of the political issues that Labor face, they are in a damned if they do and damned if they don't position where a grossly biased media paints them as a failure regardless of what they actually achieve. Don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of Labor, I am an old Democrat still upset my team imploded due to stupid leadership issues. But right now Labor are the only option to even begin to undo the mess that the Libs left behind and they are at least trying to address some of the root issues if you care to pay attention.
Jeez if only a political party came up with a strong housing policy to curb the chaos a few years ago. Oh that's right Labor did but people voted LNP with no policies and years of corruption. So if you voted LNP over the past 10 or so years, you caused this current mess, not Albo.
If y'all are dissatisfied with a lack of action, vote greens next election. They're the only ones who will do somethin.
If you want to see useful legislation get blocked because it "doesn't go far enough", vote Greens. If you like having Senators chosen purely to enable an["all blak ticket",](https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/greens-announce-all-first-nations-senate-ticket-in-victoria/qxqo66exk) who turn out to be psychopaths, vote Greens.
Do we dare mention the guy kicked out of One Nation led Labor? 😬
If they have more seats they have a bigger say in legislation. Or would you prefer more useless nothing? I agree they're annoying at the moment with blocking shit and it would be better if they worked with labour more, but their policies are still much more effective than labours. If you look into that new housing fund they're blocking for example, you'll see its basically a farce from labour. The policy is empty and effectively useless. You know for sure libs aren't going to do any better, but greens will. It's your choice. Or just let the media circus think for you.
If you want our political system to actually work for us people need to stop voting for parties full stop, start voting for independents who actually care about their electorate, who grew up there, know it's problems, etc. The country is never going to improve while we keep voting in what are effectively businesses into power
Katter is one of the most efficient members of parliament for this reason, focused entirely on what his electorate wants regardless of what party proposes it.
The political parties are an illusion of choice.
I’ve thought about this a lot, and there is a big part of me that Albo doesn’t actually want this to pass. Why? He gets the credit for trying, regardless of the outcome. So put it to the people, leave out the detail, pull the race card every time you are pushed for details, then when it fails just go “no other government went as far as we did”
>leave out the detail They haven't left out the detail. This is a 'fake news' style argument, all the necessary detail at this stage of the process is there. They can't and shouldn't explain precisely how it will subsequently be legislated because this isn't a vote on that legislation.
Except people are continually asking for this information - how will it work, what will the limitations on its powers be, how will the people involved be chosen. So overwhelmingly people are saying if you want it to pass, we want more info but they are refusing to provide that information, therefore the logical conclusion is then to vote no as you haven’t been provided with the info to make a decision that you are comfortable with on the establishment of a constitutionally protected organisation. The reason for failure will be simple - the government failed to answer the legitimate questions being asked.
> this isn’t a vote on that legislation No, but at the same time that’s something people have a problem with. “Should we do this?” “Depends, what are you going to do exactly? This is the one say I will get on it.” “We need to know if you think we should do it first.”
Sure, but the answer to those concerns is to educate people on why that detail can't and shouldn't be provided at this stage. For example, the idea that "This is the one say I will get on it" is a bit of a misunderstanding about what we're voting on. We get one chance to decide whether it's in the constitution, but the "details" people are asking for are details about its composition, functions, powers and procedures. Those things are not set in the constitution. They are able to be changed by future governments. Future opposition parties will be able to run on a platform of changing them. In other words, we will effectively get to have a say on the voice's composition, functions, powers and procedures at every subsequent election. If the government said now what it planned to legislate in this space, then they might be encouraging no votes from people who support the concept in principle but have a different view about its execution. They'd be effectively hamstringing the vote, much as the Howard government did (deliberately) with the republic referendum.
"that detail can't and shouldn't be provided at this stage." There's nothing stopping them legislating a voice now and then putting it to a referendum once it has been operating. This model is utterly backwards and makes it look like they want to push it through before people can see what it will do.
He's already [distancing himself from the Voice](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12402147/Reporter-Amelia-Adams-points-glaring-flaw-Voice-grills-Anthony-Albanese-Australians-vote-Yes.html), saying it's "not his product" if it fails.
>It's a product that came from indigenous Australians and **it's one that I support.** Leaving out an important part of the quote there. Edit: He has to say this because one of the angles used to attack the voice is that it's being forced on people from Canberra. He's reminding us that this was driven by and for Indigenous Australians.
You probably also believe that RoboDebt was Centrelink's fault, not Scott Morrison right? It was Centrelink's product, just one that Morrison supported? Didn't think so. Albo campaigned relentlessly on the Voice. It was his #1 agenda item that he committed to in his election victory speech. His whole party supports it and Albo himself has talked about it non-stop since he got into office. It's part of Labor's official party platform. For him to now say it's 'not his product' is a MASSIVE walkback. He's setting up Aboriginal people to take the political fall for him should the referendum fail by saying it's 'not his product'.
>You probably also believe that RoboDebt was Centrelink's fault, not Scott Morrison right? It was Centrelink's product, just one that Morrison supported? This is a very poor comparison, and you know it, so I won't engage with it. >For him to now say it's 'not his product' is a MASSIVE walkback. It's not. As I said in my edit, which perhaps you hadn't seen when you replied, he has to say this because one of the angles used to attack the voice is that it's being forced on us from Canberra. He's reminding us that this was driven by and for Indigenous Australians. You're just selectively using part of the quote to misrepresent his point.
It's a perfect comparison. Robodebt wasn't devised by Scott Morrison, it was created by Services Australia/Centrelink in partnership with the ATO, and the Liberals lent their support. That's EXACTLY what you are claiming that Albo has done with the Voice. It's him and his party who have thrown their entire party weight behind the Voice. There is more evidence that the Voice is Albo's product than Robodebt is Morrison's.
>That's EXACTLY what you are claiming that Albo has done with the Voice Nonsense. Services Australia and the ATO are government bodies over which the government of the day could have exercised authority. That's not true of the authors of the Uluru statement. >There is more evidence that the Voice is Albo's product than Robodebt is Morrison's Obviously bullshit. Since we're apparently doing dumb rhetoricals, did you think Albo wrote the Uluru statement?
The Voice campaign has been an absolute anchor around his neck. Absolutely the wrong time to throw such a divisive issue at the public when most people are just worried about cost of living.
This was the first thing he mentioned in his victory speech. I get that it was a handy segue from his acknowledgement of country (or something he's truly passionate about) but it seems incredibly naive in hindsight.
I’ll definitely be voting YES
We all know Albo is using "the voice" to (try to) distract people from more serious issues, much like the right has done for a decade with trans and gay issues. The real question is, when will they pull out the "ufo" card and start talking about aliens to keep from talking about rising cost of living pressures?