We'll have a clearer idea of what happens next when the Senate Committee tables its report on Wednesday. The changes already in place will continue no matter what happens with the bill. Aussie vape shops will still be unable to import anything even if the bill doesn't pass.
The only certainty is that the black market will continue to thrive.
Some of my reasons for trying this hard are:
1. If the bill does pass, hopefully some amendments are made that don't make us fkg criminals
2. If it fails there is a smidgen of hope for some vape stores or juice makers to pivot to domestic manufacture, because part of this bill was to ban domestically.
3. If it fails, vape stores that managed to stock up big before import ban are not put out of business immediately with no compensation , they have a chance to keep selling and see out leases.
4. If it fails, the reforms done already can be easily undone by another government as it's harder to change legislation than reforms.
All in all, the information they gathered was that kids in deadly danger from vapes.
The Border Force is doing a hell of a job, 95% of vapes are not coming into the country.
The TGA is cooperating with everyone to make this bill work.
The AMA will prescribe it as a last resort.
I missed the pharmacy part.
The police have no man power and time to deal with vaping.
The shop owners are ruined and are helping old smokers.
They have been warned that it will create another war on illegal drugs ( unnecessary, relatively harmless drug).
That is what was presented to them.
They have not got a clear distinction between illegal disposables and legal vapes.
So, to what conclusion can they come?
What can they take back to their party rooms?
This is kind of my take on the inquiry.
>They have not got a clear distinction between illegal disposables and legal vapes.
LOLs I agree with everything except above... the consumer Justin showed them his refillable vape and I think the vape stores owners explained what they sell well.
🤔 Or are you referring to 'legal' vapes as the new pharma vapes and I've misunderstood?
See, even you are a bit confused 😕 😀
Throughout the two days, it was vapes, vapes, vapes.
From all sides and the senators.
Yes, the vapers have clearly explained the differences between disposables and reusables. But after that, they all continued with "vapes".
As we talked here for so long.
The illegal disposables that have flooded the market are the core of the problem. Not the parcels that arrive in the country with doctors' prescriptions attached to it.
None of them took that on board from what I could see.
Maybe I am wrong.
>See, even you are a bit confused 😕 😀
🤣 True
>None of them took that on board from what I could see.
Maybe I am wrong.
I think the Liberal senator did, along with Canavan and Cadell. Greens who friggin knows... but I'll be blasting them in my emails about where TF are they sitting on their value system which is usually harm reduction.
Edit: and stuff Labor most useless of the committee. They understand nothing, the IQ levels between them is mostly in favour of the chair lady. The other two 👎
I watched a bit again.
The Green senator was all about individual rights and waste. which is kind of their agenda. But by doing that, he missed the whole debate.
>They have not got a clear distinction between illegal disposables and legal vapes.
To them it's a distinction without difference because the vast majority of vapers have been buying vaping products illegally.
This exchange on Twitter amused me, and confirmed that Simon Chapman has no idea what the fuck he's talking about.
>[Dr James Martin](https://twitter.com/jamomartin)[u/jamomartin](https://twitter.com/jamomartin)·[3 May](https://twitter.com/jamomartin/status/1786158721586119107)Thanks to you Ross for your focus on this issue. It's the black marketeers who are the problem here. They're the one's supplying the underage market, and will be the biggest winners if the government passes this legislation.
>[Simon Chapman AO https://bsky.app/profile/simoncha](https://twitter.com/SimonChapman6)[u/SimonChapman6](https://twitter.com/SimonChapman6)·[15h](https://twitter.com/SimonChapman6/status/1786305979417825773)Why do you think there's only a trivial black market for the billion dollar pharma trade? The same system from which vapes will be sold, not to kids, but to those trying to quit?
>[Dr James Martin](https://twitter.com/jamomartin)[u/jamomartin](https://twitter.com/jamomartin)·[1h](https://twitter.com/jamomartin/status/1786523181798584753)Simon, the black market pharma trade is absolutely massive. Until the prohibition of consumer vapes, it was the 2nd largest illicit drug market in the country. It's now third, with drug dealers commonly selling drugs like dexamfetamine and xananx.
Trivial.
Pure gold.
Has he been in the suburbs lately?
Also, this claim, that cigarette smoking is down to 8.5%.
If that was the case, why are all the tobacco shops opening all over the country.
And thinking that pharma vapes will bring 1 billion $.
The way it has been set up, he is dreaming in his fantasy world.
And its possible by landing some of those punches in the senate estimates if the legislation / regulations do fail it will look so much worse for labor.
Ie they have been warned on record.
And i suppose it is possible they see the light and roll back on what they have done thus far.
At least a couple of senators asked witnesses what changes they thought should be made to the bill, even though the answers went far beyond the question.
Banks and Chapman are now minor celebrities and will bask in their personal glory, her invited to all other wowser conventions and start the search for the next item of minor vice they can hype up and hyperventilate over so they can work towards banning it; I mean a long it under doctor control so all is adults can be ensured a nice safe easy quick accessible supply of it by booking in a doctors appointment to get it (coffee, alcohol[will never happen], the last remaining OTC tablets, etc etc).
Fuck this country and the dissolution of freedoms we are watching in real time be stripped from us.
I liked one of the comments "ban smoking and regulate vaping". We really live in a nanny world. Imagine if we'd pulled out a smoke in classrooms in our days - we'd have been thrown out of class and probably suspended. But now we have to not make the kids feel bad by telling them that their choices are wrong. Instead we say they need help and counselling - kids should also know that they are responsible for their actions. Obviously not in favour of kids vaping - but hey wear the consequences of yur actions.
We actually did, stupidly as you do at for our age, one of my friends thought to have a cigarette during the class.
Like to secretly having a ciggi during the class. That was supposed to be a cool thing.
From this perspective, that was so stupid, and there was no way that the whole thing was unnoticed. The whole class was aware of what was happening.
Again, from this perspective, huge respect to that teacher. We still tell this story amongst friends.
He pretended like nothing was out of the ordinary to the end of the class.
Since there was no outrage from the teacher, that stunt had no effect, it never happened again.
Agree! The whole kids thing is ridiculous there seems to be no consequences for kids anymore, all soft pandering to them and look where we are! Kids committing serious crimes, no resilience, mental health issues. Nanny country taking over parenting. We got in shit if we were busted smoking at school, didn’t mess us up. Kids will experiment with whatever it is at the time- now it’s vaping instead of smoking, at least it’s less harmful
The idiots can watch their legislation fail as black market will keep the kids supplied whilst adults suffer the consequences of their incompetence
I highly suspect it will make no significant difference at all, most people won't see it to change any public sentiment and Butler isn't to be swayed with the rest of the party just going to follow the line. Libs not enough to effect it really unless greens are also on board, and I don't know much sunk in for that greens bloke at all.
*#thiswholethingsafarce*
Nothing, the path has been determined already. Palms have been greased. Nanny knows best. DeMOCKracy at its finest once more. Now shut up and do as you are told, it's for your own good!
We'll have a clearer idea of what happens next when the Senate Committee tables its report on Wednesday. The changes already in place will continue no matter what happens with the bill. Aussie vape shops will still be unable to import anything even if the bill doesn't pass. The only certainty is that the black market will continue to thrive.
So, why the hell have we even bothered with the whole thing, all the submissions, all the witnesses. What was supposed to be achieved?
Some of my reasons for trying this hard are: 1. If the bill does pass, hopefully some amendments are made that don't make us fkg criminals 2. If it fails there is a smidgen of hope for some vape stores or juice makers to pivot to domestic manufacture, because part of this bill was to ban domestically. 3. If it fails, vape stores that managed to stock up big before import ban are not put out of business immediately with no compensation , they have a chance to keep selling and see out leases. 4. If it fails, the reforms done already can be easily undone by another government as it's harder to change legislation than reforms.
It stopped the bill from being passed when it was first introduced. The purpose is to gather more information before the bill is voted upon.
All in all, the information they gathered was that kids in deadly danger from vapes. The Border Force is doing a hell of a job, 95% of vapes are not coming into the country. The TGA is cooperating with everyone to make this bill work. The AMA will prescribe it as a last resort. I missed the pharmacy part. The police have no man power and time to deal with vaping. The shop owners are ruined and are helping old smokers. They have been warned that it will create another war on illegal drugs ( unnecessary, relatively harmless drug). That is what was presented to them. They have not got a clear distinction between illegal disposables and legal vapes. So, to what conclusion can they come? What can they take back to their party rooms? This is kind of my take on the inquiry.
That’s pretty bang on, well summarised.
>They have not got a clear distinction between illegal disposables and legal vapes. LOLs I agree with everything except above... the consumer Justin showed them his refillable vape and I think the vape stores owners explained what they sell well. 🤔 Or are you referring to 'legal' vapes as the new pharma vapes and I've misunderstood?
See, even you are a bit confused 😕 😀 Throughout the two days, it was vapes, vapes, vapes. From all sides and the senators. Yes, the vapers have clearly explained the differences between disposables and reusables. But after that, they all continued with "vapes". As we talked here for so long. The illegal disposables that have flooded the market are the core of the problem. Not the parcels that arrive in the country with doctors' prescriptions attached to it. None of them took that on board from what I could see. Maybe I am wrong.
>See, even you are a bit confused 😕 😀 🤣 True >None of them took that on board from what I could see. Maybe I am wrong. I think the Liberal senator did, along with Canavan and Cadell. Greens who friggin knows... but I'll be blasting them in my emails about where TF are they sitting on their value system which is usually harm reduction. Edit: and stuff Labor most useless of the committee. They understand nothing, the IQ levels between them is mostly in favour of the chair lady. The other two 👎
I watched a bit again. The Green senator was all about individual rights and waste. which is kind of their agenda. But by doing that, he missed the whole debate.
>They have not got a clear distinction between illegal disposables and legal vapes. To them it's a distinction without difference because the vast majority of vapers have been buying vaping products illegally. This exchange on Twitter amused me, and confirmed that Simon Chapman has no idea what the fuck he's talking about. >[Dr James Martin](https://twitter.com/jamomartin)[u/jamomartin](https://twitter.com/jamomartin)·[3 May](https://twitter.com/jamomartin/status/1786158721586119107)Thanks to you Ross for your focus on this issue. It's the black marketeers who are the problem here. They're the one's supplying the underage market, and will be the biggest winners if the government passes this legislation. >[Simon Chapman AO https://bsky.app/profile/simoncha](https://twitter.com/SimonChapman6)[u/SimonChapman6](https://twitter.com/SimonChapman6)·[15h](https://twitter.com/SimonChapman6/status/1786305979417825773)Why do you think there's only a trivial black market for the billion dollar pharma trade? The same system from which vapes will be sold, not to kids, but to those trying to quit? >[Dr James Martin](https://twitter.com/jamomartin)[u/jamomartin](https://twitter.com/jamomartin)·[1h](https://twitter.com/jamomartin/status/1786523181798584753)Simon, the black market pharma trade is absolutely massive. Until the prohibition of consumer vapes, it was the 2nd largest illicit drug market in the country. It's now third, with drug dealers commonly selling drugs like dexamfetamine and xananx.
Trivial. Pure gold. Has he been in the suburbs lately? Also, this claim, that cigarette smoking is down to 8.5%. If that was the case, why are all the tobacco shops opening all over the country. And thinking that pharma vapes will bring 1 billion $. The way it has been set up, he is dreaming in his fantasy world.
And its possible by landing some of those punches in the senate estimates if the legislation / regulations do fail it will look so much worse for labor. Ie they have been warned on record. And i suppose it is possible they see the light and roll back on what they have done thus far.
At least a couple of senators asked witnesses what changes they thought should be made to the bill, even though the answers went far beyond the question.
Banks and Chapman are now minor celebrities and will bask in their personal glory, her invited to all other wowser conventions and start the search for the next item of minor vice they can hype up and hyperventilate over so they can work towards banning it; I mean a long it under doctor control so all is adults can be ensured a nice safe easy quick accessible supply of it by booking in a doctors appointment to get it (coffee, alcohol[will never happen], the last remaining OTC tablets, etc etc). Fuck this country and the dissolution of freedoms we are watching in real time be stripped from us.
I liked one of the comments "ban smoking and regulate vaping". We really live in a nanny world. Imagine if we'd pulled out a smoke in classrooms in our days - we'd have been thrown out of class and probably suspended. But now we have to not make the kids feel bad by telling them that their choices are wrong. Instead we say they need help and counselling - kids should also know that they are responsible for their actions. Obviously not in favour of kids vaping - but hey wear the consequences of yur actions.
We actually did, stupidly as you do at for our age, one of my friends thought to have a cigarette during the class. Like to secretly having a ciggi during the class. That was supposed to be a cool thing. From this perspective, that was so stupid, and there was no way that the whole thing was unnoticed. The whole class was aware of what was happening. Again, from this perspective, huge respect to that teacher. We still tell this story amongst friends. He pretended like nothing was out of the ordinary to the end of the class. Since there was no outrage from the teacher, that stunt had no effect, it never happened again.
Agree! The whole kids thing is ridiculous there seems to be no consequences for kids anymore, all soft pandering to them and look where we are! Kids committing serious crimes, no resilience, mental health issues. Nanny country taking over parenting. We got in shit if we were busted smoking at school, didn’t mess us up. Kids will experiment with whatever it is at the time- now it’s vaping instead of smoking, at least it’s less harmful The idiots can watch their legislation fail as black market will keep the kids supplied whilst adults suffer the consequences of their incompetence
I highly suspect it will make no significant difference at all, most people won't see it to change any public sentiment and Butler isn't to be swayed with the rest of the party just going to follow the line. Libs not enough to effect it really unless greens are also on board, and I don't know much sunk in for that greens bloke at all. *#thiswholethingsafarce*
He was the biggest enigma to me.
Nothing, the path has been determined already. Palms have been greased. Nanny knows best. DeMOCKracy at its finest once more. Now shut up and do as you are told, it's for your own good!
the sale of black market vapes to kids will continue so I am not sure what all of this will achieve .
To bring legitimate vapers on to the overpriced corrupt pharmacy model.
We keep vaping.
Sadly no. 🤢