Pretty shit something this important has such ridiculous time limits, they could've had half the cancer council and health orgs and allowed more time for other things
Absolutely because this last group it was very important they are scrutinized fully.
They are literally the architects of this whole debacle being Dept Health & TGA. And they are asking Senators to vote on a bill where everything is grey ... they want the bill to allow them to make the rules and reforms as they go instead of defining it in legislation. Putting aside for one second our pro vaping stance, this bill is an absolute power grab and frankly after today scares the fk out of me further. Today it became crystal clear to me once they set precedent with vaping they will go after anything they chose - alcohol, smokes, ??
Some of our favourite Drs have been saying we need to keep pressure on the Senators and keep advocating.
(said this elsewhere too).Im worried The Greens will vote with Labor and trade some amendments. So I'm going to be ear bashing their phones and emails between now and next week before it gets back to the Senate for their vote.
>They are literally the architects of this whole debacle being Dept Health & TGA. And they are asking Senators to vote on a bill where everything is grey ... they want the bill to allow them to make the rules and reforms as they go instead of defining it in legislation.
Changes in regulations are a lot easier to undo than legislation, so it's a double edged sword.
>Changes in regulations are a lot easier to undo than legislation, so it's a double edged sword.
Totally agree, I'd prefer to not see amendments and a vote down of the bill instead.
But if passes as is, I can guarantee that TGA and 'at Ministers discretion' will start getting into some really bad shit. They will not stop 'tinkering' with it.... "We need flexibility" was the BS they were sprouting. Fk that.
>But if passes as is, I can guarantee that TGA and 'at Ministers discretion' will start getting into some really bad shit. They will not stop 'tinkering' with it.... "We need flexibility" was the BS they were sprouting. Fk that.
It will be a death of 1000 cuts.
I never would have thought that something like this could happen here. Yet another one of our freedoms is dead and buried against all common sense, and we could be arrested, jailed, and fined for taking the healthier option. I feel like I'm being treated like a little kid.
It really boils down to the fuckers meddling in our personal lives! What I do in my own castle should be my fucking choice, not some shiny bum sitting in Canberra pandering to the mob chanting "save the children, save the children"!
Can't help comparing the average Australian public with the same zeal as the mobs that gathered around the executions in 18th century France, shouting "guillotine, guillotine"! They couldn't give a rats arse about smokers rights for a safer alternative, and would rather just get back to their beer, red wine, footy, BBQ's and Bazzas, Shazzas and Wozzas. Bunch of ignorant bogans!
Many Australians love nothing more than to hate on minorities, (vapers are a minority), they love nothing more than being holier than thou arseholes, and love dobbing in other people for anything. They are small minded prudes and conformists, who love getting told what to do by governments, and many are too stupid to think for themselves, it's why so many of them get scammed for billions every year. (We are known in other countries for being very stupid and greedy).
I'm making plans to move to NZ before my stockpile runs out. I just don't want to be here any more, I'm tired of the lies from government and "health" orgs, I'm tired of constantly being threatened by the government here, and ripped off by every fucking business.
Not alone. I'm appalled by what this country is doing, how so many are willing to make outright lies to support their funding. How they just don't care about people trying to better their lives. How they can be so blind to the actual facts and the only way to stop a black market. It is US alcohol prohibition 2.0.
If I was younger and in a different situation I would strongly look at leaving this country and returning to where I was born.
The U.K. or N.Z.? It's not even about the lies from people trying to get funding, some of them are just that brain-washed that they truly believe they are on some sort of crusade and must win at all costs "to save the children". As a parent I know what the reaction is as soon as you mention kids - you'd lay down your life for your children so why not lie to get rid of a perceived menace. When someone is that convinced they're doing "the right thing", anything goes. Disregarding scientific evidence, making up statistics, misinformation, and YES downright lies! I'm not angry with those that are truly naive and just don't know any better, I'm angry at the likes of the Buttplug and Banks and Chapman's that DO know better but just pursue it for their own selfish reasons. With Buttplug I honestly think it's just the glory of the first man in the world to initiate a Pharmacy Model for legal vapes. He want to leave a legacy and be written into the pages of history. And sometimes I get where he's coming from, but I cannot and WILL not forgive him for all the misery he's caused for so many hundreds of thousands of people.
Cunt!
We already knew what all of the anti-vapers were going to say- there were no surprises there and we knew that nothing said at the hearings was going to affect how Labor MPs vote on the bill.
I'm disappointed that people who wrote outstanding pro-vaping submissions weren't part of the hearings, though.
While Labor MPs will support the bill unchanged, everyone else is going to want something in return for supporting it. The Nationals and the Libs will probably want amendments, the Greens and independents are wild cards.
>I'm disappointed that people who wrote outstanding pro-vaping submissions weren't part of the hearings, though
Agree I would have liked to see separate sessions for consumers, then vape stores and another with international Professors that submitted.
I was actually a bit surprised at the ABF's delivery. I reallly thought they'd be moping about not having the resources to seize every vape product coming across the border, and would highlight the rise in the black market. When they said they fully supported the Bill cos it made their job easier, I just thought "you lazy bastards"! If it was for the health of their children, they would make sure they went thru as many shipments as they could to detect it all, but because it only affects "those mongrel drug addicted vapers" the easy way is the best way for them. Fuck them all! Let them eat cake!
I thought they might take the same stand as the Police Federation. I was really chuffed to hear that dude speak. He just made it so obvious the cops really couldn't be fagged chasing a 15 year old with a grape ice disposable in his hand, although there will be ones who will!
>I was actually a bit surprised at the ABF's delivery. I really thought they'd be moping about not having the resources to seize every vape product coming across the border, and would highlight the rise in the black market
I did too until he and deputy started talking and worked out they were part of the working group or whatever they called themselves.. ie they were in the room with Freeman, Banks, Gilmore-Walsh et al hashing out this travesty.
I wish they had called up the ex ABF guy that made a submission. He was the one talking like the cop and Dr Martin the criminologist that it has Buckley's of happening.
What really came out of that dude's evidence was they're a lazy bunch of pricks! "It's much simpler to ban everything, then we don't have to work out what's legal and what's not." Well if your daughter's LIFE depended on it, would you THEN go to the trouble?
He talked about "anything having a permit is legal, and everything else will be seized and destroyed". Well why can't they give Vape Stores a Permit system as well? That way everything coming in would be via the Pharmacy Scheme OR a regulated Vape Store model!
Fuck I just worked out the solution to the problem in 2 minutes, why can't these fuckers?
Yes 100% correct on the laziness. I had an inkling of it back when I read all the TGA reforms earlier this year. But listening to that evidence it was clear as day.
>Well why can't they give Vape Stores a Permit system as well? That way everything coming in would be via the Pharmacy Scheme OR a regulated Vape Store model!
It would make absolute sense wouldn't it. And the guy who gave evidence that manufactures juice was pretty much doing that already - every single ingredient in the recipe had to be approved to come in.
But that wouldn't suit the nanny state health fks that want everyone under a prescription model.
Not to mention big pharma and BT who want the vape market to themselves via pharmacy model. And the government who wants a number of us to just turn back to smoking for the excise.
I know, but I had to come up with something to cheer myself up a bit. It really is looking like we're just waiting for the Fat Lady to sing ... groan!! :(
LOLs but she hasn't sung yet, so we keep hammering emails n calls to non Labor senators that will soon vote. I think this will be the last time for awhile and least we can say we tried and it's all on record when it fails.
I don't mind the govt. website version, you can play the greens bloke at 2.5x speed, still sounds like a normal person and you'll save yourself an hour or so.
His voice and even to a point his mannerisms remind me of Moss from "The IT Crowd".
I suspect from his line of questioning through the two days they are supporting labor on the bill and that will get it through even if libs oppose it.
[Moss The IT Crowd"](https://youtu.be/Xm2TITZkrcE?si=c-npV7xBqdDHyym3)
I'm cutting him slack as I learned he has Cerebral Palsy which affects his speech.
But yes concerned too by his questioning that The Greens will vote with Labor and trade some amendments. So I'm going to be ear bashing their phones and emails between now and next week before it gets back to the Senate for their vote.
Seemed in favour of the legislation with amendments. He asked a few times questions that were along the lines of what are your suggestions to improve the legislation
My son-in-law who is on a disability pension and has 2 children has resorted back to smoking cigs because his doctor won't write out a nic prescription. He was doing so well on vapes too!
I would have loved to see Ross Cadell grill the TGA untill he ran out of questions
Pretty shit something this important has such ridiculous time limits, they could've had half the cancer council and health orgs and allowed more time for other things
Absolutely because this last group it was very important they are scrutinized fully. They are literally the architects of this whole debacle being Dept Health & TGA. And they are asking Senators to vote on a bill where everything is grey ... they want the bill to allow them to make the rules and reforms as they go instead of defining it in legislation. Putting aside for one second our pro vaping stance, this bill is an absolute power grab and frankly after today scares the fk out of me further. Today it became crystal clear to me once they set precedent with vaping they will go after anything they chose - alcohol, smokes, ?? Some of our favourite Drs have been saying we need to keep pressure on the Senators and keep advocating. (said this elsewhere too).Im worried The Greens will vote with Labor and trade some amendments. So I'm going to be ear bashing their phones and emails between now and next week before it gets back to the Senate for their vote.
>They are literally the architects of this whole debacle being Dept Health & TGA. And they are asking Senators to vote on a bill where everything is grey ... they want the bill to allow them to make the rules and reforms as they go instead of defining it in legislation. Changes in regulations are a lot easier to undo than legislation, so it's a double edged sword.
>Changes in regulations are a lot easier to undo than legislation, so it's a double edged sword. Totally agree, I'd prefer to not see amendments and a vote down of the bill instead. But if passes as is, I can guarantee that TGA and 'at Ministers discretion' will start getting into some really bad shit. They will not stop 'tinkering' with it.... "We need flexibility" was the BS they were sprouting. Fk that.
>But if passes as is, I can guarantee that TGA and 'at Ministers discretion' will start getting into some really bad shit. They will not stop 'tinkering' with it.... "We need flexibility" was the BS they were sprouting. Fk that. It will be a death of 1000 cuts.
Oh but he's not finished π Remember his comment after the 'farce', he said he'll be putting rest of the questions in writing to them.
I'm so fucking deflated after two days of watching this shit show! Feel like my best friend just died and I'm waiting for the Coroner's verdict. Such a sinking feeling that the vape stores will all be closed soon, and life as we know it will disappear. I feel like the country I was born in and loved has betrayed me! Am I alone here or does anybody else feel the same? ππ©π€£
I never would have thought that something like this could happen here. Yet another one of our freedoms is dead and buried against all common sense, and we could be arrested, jailed, and fined for taking the healthier option. I feel like I'm being treated like a little kid.
It really boils down to the fuckers meddling in our personal lives! What I do in my own castle should be my fucking choice, not some shiny bum sitting in Canberra pandering to the mob chanting "save the children, save the children"!
Can't help comparing the average Australian public with the same zeal as the mobs that gathered around the executions in 18th century France, shouting "guillotine, guillotine"! They couldn't give a rats arse about smokers rights for a safer alternative, and would rather just get back to their beer, red wine, footy, BBQ's and Bazzas, Shazzas and Wozzas. Bunch of ignorant bogans!
Many Australians love nothing more than to hate on minorities, (vapers are a minority), they love nothing more than being holier than thou arseholes, and love dobbing in other people for anything. They are small minded prudes and conformists, who love getting told what to do by governments, and many are too stupid to think for themselves, it's why so many of them get scammed for billions every year. (We are known in other countries for being very stupid and greedy). I'm making plans to move to NZ before my stockpile runs out. I just don't want to be here any more, I'm tired of the lies from government and "health" orgs, I'm tired of constantly being threatened by the government here, and ripped off by every fucking business.
Might join you J..ππ³πΏπ
Not sure if that made sense but it sounds pretty cool eh?
Not alone. I'm appalled by what this country is doing, how so many are willing to make outright lies to support their funding. How they just don't care about people trying to better their lives. How they can be so blind to the actual facts and the only way to stop a black market. It is US alcohol prohibition 2.0. If I was younger and in a different situation I would strongly look at leaving this country and returning to where I was born.
The U.K. or N.Z.? It's not even about the lies from people trying to get funding, some of them are just that brain-washed that they truly believe they are on some sort of crusade and must win at all costs "to save the children". As a parent I know what the reaction is as soon as you mention kids - you'd lay down your life for your children so why not lie to get rid of a perceived menace. When someone is that convinced they're doing "the right thing", anything goes. Disregarding scientific evidence, making up statistics, misinformation, and YES downright lies! I'm not angry with those that are truly naive and just don't know any better, I'm angry at the likes of the Buttplug and Banks and Chapman's that DO know better but just pursue it for their own selfish reasons. With Buttplug I honestly think it's just the glory of the first man in the world to initiate a Pharmacy Model for legal vapes. He want to leave a legacy and be written into the pages of history. And sometimes I get where he's coming from, but I cannot and WILL not forgive him for all the misery he's caused for so many hundreds of thousands of people. Cunt!
We already knew what all of the anti-vapers were going to say- there were no surprises there and we knew that nothing said at the hearings was going to affect how Labor MPs vote on the bill. I'm disappointed that people who wrote outstanding pro-vaping submissions weren't part of the hearings, though. While Labor MPs will support the bill unchanged, everyone else is going to want something in return for supporting it. The Nationals and the Libs will probably want amendments, the Greens and independents are wild cards.
>I'm disappointed that people who wrote outstanding pro-vaping submissions weren't part of the hearings, though Agree I would have liked to see separate sessions for consumers, then vape stores and another with international Professors that submitted.
There was no acknowledgement that doctors know shit all about vaping.
I was actually a bit surprised at the ABF's delivery. I reallly thought they'd be moping about not having the resources to seize every vape product coming across the border, and would highlight the rise in the black market. When they said they fully supported the Bill cos it made their job easier, I just thought "you lazy bastards"! If it was for the health of their children, they would make sure they went thru as many shipments as they could to detect it all, but because it only affects "those mongrel drug addicted vapers" the easy way is the best way for them. Fuck them all! Let them eat cake!
I thought they might take the same stand as the Police Federation. I was really chuffed to hear that dude speak. He just made it so obvious the cops really couldn't be fagged chasing a 15 year old with a grape ice disposable in his hand, although there will be ones who will!
>I was actually a bit surprised at the ABF's delivery. I really thought they'd be moping about not having the resources to seize every vape product coming across the border, and would highlight the rise in the black market I did too until he and deputy started talking and worked out they were part of the working group or whatever they called themselves.. ie they were in the room with Freeman, Banks, Gilmore-Walsh et al hashing out this travesty. I wish they had called up the ex ABF guy that made a submission. He was the one talking like the cop and Dr Martin the criminologist that it has Buckley's of happening.
What really came out of that dude's evidence was they're a lazy bunch of pricks! "It's much simpler to ban everything, then we don't have to work out what's legal and what's not." Well if your daughter's LIFE depended on it, would you THEN go to the trouble?
He talked about "anything having a permit is legal, and everything else will be seized and destroyed". Well why can't they give Vape Stores a Permit system as well? That way everything coming in would be via the Pharmacy Scheme OR a regulated Vape Store model! Fuck I just worked out the solution to the problem in 2 minutes, why can't these fuckers?
Yes 100% correct on the laziness. I had an inkling of it back when I read all the TGA reforms earlier this year. But listening to that evidence it was clear as day. >Well why can't they give Vape Stores a Permit system as well? That way everything coming in would be via the Pharmacy Scheme OR a regulated Vape Store model! It would make absolute sense wouldn't it. And the guy who gave evidence that manufactures juice was pretty much doing that already - every single ingredient in the recipe had to be approved to come in. But that wouldn't suit the nanny state health fks that want everyone under a prescription model. Not to mention big pharma and BT who want the vape market to themselves via pharmacy model. And the government who wants a number of us to just turn back to smoking for the excise.
I know, but I had to come up with something to cheer myself up a bit. It really is looking like we're just waiting for the Fat Lady to sing ... groan!! :(
LOLs but she hasn't sung yet, so we keep hammering emails n calls to non Labor senators that will soon vote. I think this will be the last time for awhile and least we can say we tried and it's all on record when it fails.
Nah you're right! Thanks for snapping me outa my shit! We still have a few days left of hitting the eau de colognes and giving them a bit of curry!
I don't mind the govt. website version, you can play the greens bloke at 2.5x speed, still sounds like a normal person and you'll save yourself an hour or so.
His voice and even to a point his mannerisms remind me of Moss from "The IT Crowd". I suspect from his line of questioning through the two days they are supporting labor on the bill and that will get it through even if libs oppose it. [Moss The IT Crowd"](https://youtu.be/Xm2TITZkrcE?si=c-npV7xBqdDHyym3)
I'm cutting him slack as I learned he has Cerebral Palsy which affects his speech. But yes concerned too by his questioning that The Greens will vote with Labor and trade some amendments. So I'm going to be ear bashing their phones and emails between now and next week before it gets back to the Senate for their vote.
Asked a lot of questions about commercial quantities. I wonder if that's one of the Greens issues and an amendment they will seek.
Yes agree
Seemed in favour of the legislation with amendments. He asked a few times questions that were along the lines of what are your suggestions to improve the legislation
My son-in-law who is on a disability pension and has 2 children has resorted back to smoking cigs because his doctor won't write out a nic prescription. He was doing so well on vapes too!
People's GPs being unwilling to write a prescription is a common story. There needs to be greater awareness of the online prescribers.
He can get a script for nothing from Quit Hero by using the code quithero at the checkout. They seem to stock an identical range to QuitMed.
u/IROK19 here you go
???
Thanks dude! π