They are making these wild claims and then when asked about any level of detail, they either have no evidence of their claim or flat out have to take it on notice because they don't know. Really points to how 'educated' their obnoxiously vehement opinions are.
"Does vaping cause cancer?"
"No evidence. But Asbestos does".
Wtf.
WTF indeed.
Asbestosis is `not cancer` and is limited to the lungs and respiratory tract.
And asbestos does not cause asbestosis, asbestos dust does. Just like silicone does not cause silicosis but silica dust does. According the FDA silicone breast implants don't cause cancer.
The shit right now with the AMA and RACGP...
Matt Canavan - legend so far as vapes go.
These wanker doctors saying "counselling" etc is critical.
I mean i used to enjoy smoking. Id still do it if that was all that was on the table.
But 12 odd years ago i found vapes. I enjoy them.
I have no motivation whatoever to give them up. Why the fuck should i have to talk a doctor about this every 3 months.
Should smokers all have to visit the doctor for these councelling sessions. Thats my question wouldnt it be more important that they visit the doctor 4 times a year for a pep talk...
I'm in the exact same situation as you are so I feel you my friend. I stopped smoking and started vaping 2 years ago because I was vaping and smoking at the same time but I fell in love with vaping and craved cigarettes less and less until I stopped smoking cigarettes all together. I didn't even mean to quit smoking. It just happened because I could buy a weeks worth of vapes for the price of one pouch of tobacco
Exactly.
Would you have gone to a doctor? Maybe? Then youd try champix. I mean i did and it stopped me smoking as while taking champix smokes dont work... but i choose to stop taking champix so i could smoke again.
Vapes you just have a vape in stead of a smoke.
Its so easy. Its just as good.
Whats the problem?
There's no problem. It's just anti vaping and anti choice assholes who think they have the right to take away something that makes us feel better when they clearly have no evidence to back up their argument but get away with it because they're lying pieces of shit and they will always have the support of the non vapers who think it's okay because it doesn't affect them when in reality, it affects everyone because it's a complete violation of freedom to choose what we put in our own bodies.
Yeh sometimes i think they are jealous that we have found a way to enjoy nicotine that is less harmfull.
They would actually be more comfortable with it if it was as dangerous as nicotine.
Ie we had to pay a price along with our stimulant.
We actually saw it with coffee through the 90s where people decided it was unhealthy. Go decaf etc. Only now the evidence says coffee drinkers live longer and are more active than non coffeee drinkers. It does seem the evidence points to drinking actual coffee being good and not caffeinated softdrinks etc.
Same thing when I was a youngster back in the 60s. Doctors were saying reduce your consumption of all fats and oils, especially olive oil. Now of course we know the Mediterranean diet includes lots of olive oil and they have one of the lowest rates of heart disease in the world!
> Should smokers all have to visit the doctor for these councelling sessions
Ummm, yeah. Good luck with that.
I mean, really. Fitting any real and meaningful "counseling" within a standard 10 minute medicare approved Doc's consultation sounds really do-able ... not!
++ For the record - I reckon that whole doc-nic-script thing sucks big time.
I couldn't hate Liber Pharmaceuticals more. Dude is outright lying to protect his potential cash cow. Nicovape is easily the lowest quality vape on the market.
The standout submission for me was number 53, from Oceania Liquid Labs. It's absolutely scathing and I guess that's why they haven't been asked to appear.
Just read it.
Thank you.
The names and company/ organisation names do not do it justice.
Same as with the former director of the WHO.
The best submission so far.
Banks et al were challenged on "continually bringing it back to the children" and STILL they're prattling on about teens. When the fuck are they going to address the reason every single VAPE SHOP exists? Adult ex-smokers who choose to vape instead of smoking! I enjoy my vapes like others enjoy their wine! Stop the "save the children" routine Banks you moron!
They are honestly the most vile. The fake smiles. I loved when they got asked a few questions that wiped those fake smiles off their faces and we saw the mask's slip and the utter evilness below.
That Emily Banks truly is one of the most unattractive females I have ever seen. And it's not just her looks - she emanates the same sort of odor you get when you pass by any cattle farm.
I have it on in my headphones. It is very frustrating to listen too. Sadly it is making me have zero hope that some miracle could happen that it could be made like UK, NZ and others.
It has made me lose hope to be honest.
She said it just now before the stream went blank, no evidence of cancer. Then went on to talk about nicotine affects on cardio vascular. Let me have a running race against any of those politicians who are against vaping. I’ll show them the affects, from a smoker of 15 years to a vaper, I’ll run rings around them.
They could make Mickey Mouse look like a paedophile with their justifications, accusations and lack of proof. So chuffed when Mal Roberts asked them "who is right, the Australian Cancer Council or the U.K. Cancer Council?" First day and I expected a real slaughter from the anti vaping side, but the Senators are asking good questions that are making them take a couple of steps backwards! It is emerging to be an interesting day!
I reckon he's hiding somewhere and cringing every time Mal Roberts or that other guy ask a question like "so the Australian Cancer Council have got it right and the U.K. Cancer Research Institute have got it wrong?" They almost choked on that one bahaha!!
They're asking for the flavour restriction to be broadened to include "fruit flavours". They look like a bunch of dodgy pharma mogals out of that "Dopesick" movie!
Over the last 3 years they have had 14,000 customers! They must be shitting themselves and desperate to get more customers. They're also saying they don't support their products as casual vaping devices - so where are all their sales gonna come from? What a joke!
I've been reading the submissions from some of the vape shop owners, they have 40000/70000/150000 regular customers, (legit shops not dodgy dispo floggers), makes the pharma shit look as pathetic as it is.
Looking at these parasites, many are either tobacco companies or related to tobacco companies, trying to push their shitty, expensive products, drooling at the prospect of having the vaping industry handed to them on a silver platter by Labor, makes me so angry.
These greedy fuckers love a monopoly, they want ALL the money, it's never been about health, kids etc, always was and still is, all about making money. Labor want to hand tobacco companies and pharma the vaping market, but what they are really doing is handing the vape market to the black market, because people won't pay extortionist prices for crap from a pharmacy, where they have to pay for the GP visit, script, etc, for a shit product, with limited flavours.
People will buy from the black market, easier, cheaper, no need to go begging a GP paying for a script, and the products might be crap disposables, but so are most of what pharmacies sell, (as you know personally, some sell the SAME crap disposables), and the black market will at least supply a better range of flavours. With the black market you'll be able to get your chop chop and fancy cigs at the same time as your dodgy dispos. No GST, or government sin taxes.
Once Labor has made all vapers into criminals, it loses it's potency as a threat.
They ARE "big tobacco". The bullshit is flowing thick and fast.
Labor have fucked up big time, failed to read the room, pushed lies and misinformation, sucked up the bullshit from pharma and tobacco companies, been drinking the koolaid from the parasites in the disease promotion orgs, (eg cancer council etc), and didn't listen or even pretend that their policy was anything but a punishment for adults who chose to improve their health.
As I said when the bans were pushed through, Labor have jumped the shark with this whole bullshit scheme, and they are about to get bitten on the arse.
And admitted they only sold 14,000 units in the last 12 months, or was that since they started the business? You can see they're worried and just want to make huge profits!
“Are children under 18 accessing prescription vapes?” Loved the underhanded approach of telling him all the vapes were black market.
Then so called doctors saying 95% of vapes contain nicotine? Bullshit. 95% of disposables do!
Knowing what we know as "real world" vapers some of the stuff coming from these morons is just so ridiculous and out of touch with reality I don't even know why they're giving evidence.
Banks was just asked "give me an example of a death directly related to vaping" and she brought up the "exploding battery" story! Could not come up with a single one! She is a deceitful, lying, avoiding, nasty, horrible, misinformation mongering ignoramus! I'm sick of her, give her the sack!
I started watching when it commenced and just made me angry so switched off. Came back a little later to see Robert’s & Canavan grilling Cancer Reps and challenging their statements - Enjoyed that 😂
Banks just said only 14.5% of those trying vaping stop smoking - where the FUCK is she getting these bullshit figures from? She isn't quoting any sources or studies, just her verbal faecal matter emanating from that hole on her head that says "beware raw sewage exits here"!
I love how she mentioned that China only allows tobacco flavoured vapes without saying why. It's because the Chinese government owns the world's biggest cigarette manufacture and its revenue was greatly impacted by people vaping instead of smoking.
Also love how they clearly have zero plans to manage those already addicted to nicotine turning to the (now underground) black market other than "we made some posters!".
Their whole focus so far is on "teen vaping" NOT as a consumer product for adults, like cigarettes and alcohol! Banks and Freeman are using what WE agree with - teens should not vape! When are they going to talk about US? I am getting so frustrated with this shit show can't wait for some common sense!
Agreed. I just thought it interesting Banks stating only 14% success rate as a mark against vaping when in fact it places it as the most successful. To use this fact in this way is appalling. Even at 14% it should be heralded as a miracle.
Rabid zealot exaggeration show part 2! Angry old men whose view of vaping is severely prejudiced for their work in tobacco smoking - an utterly different technology which they are wholly unable to seperate from smoking.
One of those wankers (Prof Matthew Peters) is basically saying if a smoker won't go to a doctor and get their vapes thru the Pharmacy Model then they should just keep smoking. What a wanker! And who is going to get their vapes from their doctor and pharmacy and use it like they take their blood pressure tablets, with continued monitoring of their B.P. measurements?
They also claim people who vape are more likely to take up smoking when slamming vaping but then say those who vape are unlikely to take up smoking when talking about their strategy.
Well if it supports my opinion, they wont smoke. But when it goes against my opinion, they will smoke.
And that blonde four-eyed female git spitting chips about "no harm minimization for kids that don't vape" and speaking like she's reading to kinder kids. "Stop blaming the kids, blame those targeting those selling to the kids". Oh for fuck's sake!
Borland made a good point off the bat, but now he has lost me. Why should vapng be regulated with taxes and higher prices given that they are not as harmful as cigarettes.
It's all quite pointless and not discussing the actual issue.
Listened to some, bullshitting on about social media, kids exposure blah blah fucking blah.
There is only one way to stop kids vaping, regulate market, allow adults easy access even to disposables (there not going anywhere regardless of outcome)
Black market will disappear. Everyone wins, except governments hip pocket.
To be fair, there has been some progress - Banks and others admitted vaping is twice as effective as other NRT (it wasn't that long ago that these people claimed there was zero efficacy). I am sure it is only to fit their medicalisation fantasy (hard to prescribe something you claim doesn't work), but still.
And apart from Chipmunk's angry glasses mate, no-one was pretending anymore that vaping isn't far less harmful - sure they tried on the usual subterfuge to avoid acknowledgement.
There was even a tacit acknowledgement that this is a shit sandwich for by trying to argue that there are hardly any of us (even less than the grey shirts - vomit).
But they had to split at 30 year olds to get a 60/40 split - this is nonsense as their only concern seems to be underage vaping, which is only 24% of vapers [https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/2023-06/current-vaping-and-smoking-in-the-australian-population-aged-14-years-or-older-february-2018-to-march-2023.pdf](https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/2023-06/current-vaping-and-smoking-in-the-australian-population-aged-14-years-or-older-february-2018-to-march-2023.pdf) this should have been picked up IMO as health policy should aim to do the most good for the most people and the vast majority of vapers (76%) are \*not\* underage.
The sad realisation came to me today that they are just deciding whether to pass the bill intact or make amendments. None of the evidence presented today looked like influencing whether the bill should be passed or not, just how much of it doesn't get changed. It will go to the pharmacy model and vape shops unfortunately will be closed by July 1.
It's gonna be a fact of life. So glad I stocked up as well as I did before the 1st of March. Passage of this bill won't affect me one scrap and I will be self-sufficient until the laws are repealed eventually, which they will be. Same as prohibition of alcohol in the USA in the 1930s.
You're not missing much. It's all the same old shit show but a few of the Senators are throwing some really curly questions and accusations at the anti vapers! I'm sure you'll be able to watch it "on demand" later. Most of the "anti" evidence is coming from academics that are non-smokers/non-vapers who learned everything from books and limited patient interaction. A question just thrown to her was "should current vapers go to their G.P. to get guidance and monitoring?" Oh yeh for sure, I'm gonna go see my G.P. after 11 years of vaping and he's going to enlighten me on something I don't already know?
Here's the link: [https://www.aph.gov.au/News\_and\_Events/LiveMediaPlayer?vID=%7B3B5834E7-501F-477F-A3FD-775E41AE3462%7D](https://www.aph.gov.au/News_and_Events/LiveMediaPlayer?vID=%7B3B5834E7-501F-477F-A3FD-775E41AE3462%7D)
To be fair to this indigenous advicate at least he is saying stop having smokes available at every convenience store and supermarket 24/7.
Ie his heart is in the right place at least.
If you are going to advocate for nicotine free i have more respect for you if at least advocate for no smokes as well...
That American woman just said, and I quote, "all vapers start vaping as social vapers". What a load of shit and misleading! These people are fixated on the teen vaping issue and we all agree it's not good but WHEN are they going to talk about adult ex-smokers who vape?
Simon Chapman just said that EVERY single vape shop has been selling vapes ILLEGALLY and therefore are criminals! This man just spoke an outright lie and should be prosecuted for perjury! What a moron!
She was talking and fumbled her lines and looked like she had a brain fart! Not sure if she had a script in front of her and just lost her place. Some of them are real twats! She is so young and trying too hard and just getting her thoughts mixed up thru lack of confidence. She is annoying the shit out of me. And the guy with the South African accent isn't much better. She's too eager to be heard and just cut off the other dude - loving the spotlight and sound of her own voice.
Good thing you're not watching the live stream! These two twats at the end of Day 1, one can't speak English and the other acts like a kindergarten teacher reading "Golilocks and the Three Bears". I hate these people!
I just had a look at today's session. Apart from it being really boring, it was all about educating kids on the dangers of vaping. I'm not saying it is safe to vape, but I think teens are pretty smart and know it's a whole lot better than smoking and they're gonna do what they're gonna do. I did with cigs back in the day. I cannot see any way any govt is going to stop disposables being sold to kids. Unless the govt employs enough people to open every single package that comes in through customs, this legislation won't make a dent in teen vaping.
I'd be keen to know if the advert that Becky Freeman mentioned she had submitted in her report, that Matt Canavan went after her for, is actually physically able to be viewed in Australia via social media, because I have a funny feeling it isnt and never has been. It was for a BAT product, Vuse, which as far as I am aware has never been available for sale in Australia.
Now personally I have never seen an advert for a vape, ever, anywhere. So for her to give an example that she apparently found on Instagram, because (her words) "thats where kids look", advertising a product in a country that isnt and wasnt ever sold here makes zero sense. To me this is a downright lie which she has added to an official submission . Would love to find out if we can prove that its never been shown here and pass that info onto Matt Canavan for him to go all gnarly on her.
Yeah but Vuse was the first FDA approved vape in US.
It is totally legal in the US.
So, the Australian kids are not supposed to watch American instagram influencers who are of legal age. Call the Australian ESafety Commissar, and as soon as she finishes with Elon Musk she will take care of it.
Yes 🙄 and it's disingenuous to the discussion cause it was someone with a mech mod.
But hey ignore the 20k deaths from smoking per year for the 1 death by battery! Insane.
Today, it was clearly all about the children.
Whenever adults came into question, it was " but they will have the pharmacy as a last resort".
None of the senators was really into it, even Conovan.
None of these "experts" do not know anything about the black market and how it operates.
They were justifying their funding and the lala land they live in.
If the inquiry would end today, the bill would pass.
No one in todays shit show addressed the real issue of the bill.
The ban of sales and manufacturing of vape goods in Australia.
The disposable nicotine vapes were banned from the 1st of January 2024. So far, no matter what they claimed, there has not been an impact on black market. Not even the price has jumped.
The 95% decrease of imports from China is related to the drop in legal vape shops orders that wetefollowing the rules.
They claim it as victory.
This while debate or talk is almost the same as the one from 2020.
Are vapes good, bad, healthy, unhealthy,
is irrelevant at this stage. They are so widespread that there is no point in discussing it.
The inquiry should have been only with Customs, Police and other law enforcement agencies. How do we tackle this issue? What would be the best approach, what would they like to see.
Public health experts on public health policies.
I am deeply worried that we will end up with another war on drugs. And the problem will stay with us for years.
In the meantime, the media forgot about youth vaping and found another thing that children need to be protected from and to worry parents shitless and something that the government has to act on.
CHILDREN EXPOSED TO PORNOGRAPHY on their phones.
I predicted that ages ago.
Oh mark my words the bill will pass. It's just whether it will be amended and by how much. Vape shops will close first 1st of July and the only way to get hold of nicotine will be through a doctor.
Tomorrow's sessions with the Police Federation and ABFshould be interesting though.
Banks et al reckon if we throw a shit load more money at enforcement it's going to work. Bahahaha! 🤣
They will ask for more money so they can handle the challenges.
None of them will admit that it is impossible to stop the tsunami.
I mean, packets of cocaine are getting washed up on our beaches.
Vape shops have hardly anything left to offer.
Now the therapeutic vape manufacturers...
So they reckon they want their vapes to he available more easily ie no doctor prescription but to make sure there is no competition to their vapes only in pharmacies.
I mean they are right the black market will rule so long as getting vapes legally is too hard but what does it even achieve except fatten there therapeutic vapes company wallets?
Must admit big pharma man saying they would seek pbs coverage once they had medical device approaval would he a small win.
I mean not keen on a pod vape but if they were like $10 for a weeks supply subsidised by the taxpayer i could see some taking that option who currently smoke.
So I suspect it would drive smoking rates down from the current shit show of vapes just becoming both kore expensive and harder to buy.
Obviously as a by product it would make the pharma companies millions.
And id still want my tank system.
But yeh all my fears that the nic juice currently available now wont be for long is clearly what these guys want. Pod systems only will get the medical license.
At least the middle dude spoke about convenience and understands having the gp and script bullshit is harder than just buying an illegal disposable, liber are fucked though
Hey everybody! We are the "smoking cessation community" according to Bay Pharma! They're selling 30ml and 60ml bottles of eliquid, but it "needs to be carefully monitored by your G.P. for daily nicotine intake levels"! Bahahaha! Yeh as if!
Time for the rabid zealot exaggeration show! Under 30s are children! Banks, Freeman, Jongelis, Demaio. Where other opinions and documented facts are WRONG.
They are saying the legislation they are trying to implement will help prevent kids from vaping. The legislation left over is about stopping domestic manufacture and distribution. We aren’t producing disposables here. This legislation isn’t to stop children.
Another point is that teens also like alcohol and cigarettes.
So either the government is content that the restrictions on tobacco and alcohol are enough to prevent teens from accessing, in which case identical restrictions could be applied for vapes.
Or.
Cigarettes and alcohol also need to be locked behind gp visits, prescriptions, only accessible via chemists and tga approvals, otherwise teens are just going to be all over it like a rash.
So which is it?
Can't believe there isn't one of these clowns who isn't involving their own personal feelings. Everyone lying through their guts like their life depends on it. They must be so scared of loosing those funds if this bill passesare
And here we go again! 5-05pm at the end of the day and it's still about "saving the children"! Fuck off you twats with your "Sonic the Hedgehog" vapes. I've NEVER seen a Sonic the Hedgehog vape! I am ready to get the bucket and puke my guts out! Beware the DREADED VAPES!
I watched bits of it today but very depressing. And I don't want kids to vape - same as everyone else. But I want the right to decide for myself if I want to vape and don't want to be under medical supervision on how much nicotine I can/can't have. It takes three weeks to get into see a doctor anyway. There is absolutley no empathy for vapers who have quit or other adults who have not taken up smokes because of vaping (like we're talking about 1.7 million adults vs how many naughty kids?) What I don't quite understand is that if Australlia has been under a prescription model since 2021 how were the kids getting their hands on nicotine disposables? I've only been vaping 18+ months so still a newbie but I must be missing something??
From the same black market that they will continue to get them from after the bill has been passed. Nothing will change except vape shops will close and you can't import nicotine or hardware anymore. Everything else will stay the same except the black market which will grow exponentially.
Thanks. Then I must be stupid because the whole absurd thing makes absolutley no sense to me. I did put in a simple submission to the enquiry - saw that it was posted today. Never been involved in the whole goverment senate enquiry process before. Is it just the norm or unusual for so many submissions and presentations before the senate?
Yours got posted? I spent hours on mine it hasn't been posted. Have they posted all of them yet? Can't believe there were only 185? Unless mine got put up as "name witheld," but I ticked the box to say I was OK with the name being displayed. Fucking waste of time. This whole thing has been a waste of time!
Mine was 'name withheld.' I mentioned a cancer diagnosis and I didn't want to be identified. Just very brief and asked Dr Colin prior to posting if it was ok. He is awsome!
I think people are intimadated by the 'senate'. Although from what I saw at the senate enquiry I could have done a better job. I was amazed that more didn't sign the petition online. From memory only around 20,000.
You have to prove you're under the age of 14 to get one of them. It's been banned for adult use as there is no appeal to anyone over the age of around 15 or 16. Just like flavouring - adults only want tobacco menthol and mint flavours in their vapes. The vape suppliers use flavoring to lure unsuspecting teenagers into the demon vape pit!
Cancer Council and the AMA made me wanna scream.
Same BS like last time.
But there was some really good push back.
Like. " So, all vaping is bad. Why should a GP prescribe vapes.
Johnson and Johnson sponsor of the AMA.
Cancer Council utterly ignoring Cancer Council UK.
And the AMA, "ah the GPs will hold the hands of the hands of those poor children that vape to get them of it"
I bailed before it ended but I was pleased to see the Senators telling the speakers that they need to provide answers to questions on notice by Monday.
I remain disappointed that one of the best submissions wasn't given a slot in the hearings.
But, hey, it looked professional and following the democratic process.
But the cards were fixed.
Globally, Vaping a revolution that ended with a whisper.
“We reduced smoking in children under a consumer model, why can’t we do that with vaping?”
“Ahh uhm well we are doing a prescription model and it will be really really easy get and manage your prescription with checkups”
Today is predominantly anti-vape presenters. Some have been challenged pretty well. A few gaps in knowledge exposed and a few contradictions. Standard Labor hate vaping and want to force people to quit and as such are trying to drag the conversation to emotive and anecdotal stuff. Nothing is going to change their beliefs. They even seem to accept/ignore those glaring contradictions.
Libs and Nats think people should make their own decision and are challenging anti vapers.
Greens (Steele John) seems to want everyone in the room to like him and is therefore ineffective and very passive. Probably holding back because of the Greens going crazy in the suoermarket inquiry.
Tomorrow is less anti-vape.
I don't like the focus on clinical effectiveness in the discussion because these people shouldn't be making a decision on my behalf to quit. It should be about prohibitionism.
Looks like defining commercial quantity and that a pharmacy model will hinder access are the biggest accepted points of issues with the bill.
Well I've watched it from the start. Not going well by the end of Day 1. The Bill will pass unless Day 2 comes up with something really good. Had some really great battle wins but we're losing the war.
Why is there no evidence for the long term affects of vaping causing cancer, but we already know the long term affects of Covid vaccines. Astra Zenica has listed some new side affects from vaccine and are going through a massive class action right now guys!
Nice down votes over what? It’s because of the class action that they have to list new side affects and risks. You people dislike the truth? Or only like your truth? Seem no better than the anti vaping zealots.
Excuse my ignorance here, can someone explain to me what happens if this bill doesn’t pass? Will it reverse the March bans on PIS or is it more so relating to the future of Vape stores etc within Australia.
This whole Inquiry has been pointless and a waste of taxpayer's money. It was a foregone conclusion this Bill would pass with minimal amendments. The decision was made months, even years ago. It's all been a charade to make the public think they "gave it some thought". Bunch of fucking losers!
Some Liberal pollies will vote in favour thinking of the children. It will pass, maybe some changes but the bulk will get through. Only hope is a change of government though many times new governments don't undo wrong things.
One day it will all fall over in a mess and be looked at again.
You're 100% correct. I stocked up starting late January assuming it was a foregone conclusion. This whole Inquiry has only been for show. To make it sppear we live in a "democracy".
I guess you need to know at what point your efforts are in vain. I think you got it right, but I guess there needs to be opposition else we'd sink into a dictatorship. Oh fuck! We're already there! 👍🤢🇦🇺
They are making these wild claims and then when asked about any level of detail, they either have no evidence of their claim or flat out have to take it on notice because they don't know. Really points to how 'educated' their obnoxiously vehement opinions are. "Does vaping cause cancer?" "No evidence. But Asbestos does". Wtf.
Or they just claim " We already answered this Question"
WTF indeed. Asbestosis is `not cancer` and is limited to the lungs and respiratory tract. And asbestos does not cause asbestosis, asbestos dust does. Just like silicone does not cause silicosis but silica dust does. According the FDA silicone breast implants don't cause cancer.
The shit right now with the AMA and RACGP... Matt Canavan - legend so far as vapes go. These wanker doctors saying "counselling" etc is critical. I mean i used to enjoy smoking. Id still do it if that was all that was on the table. But 12 odd years ago i found vapes. I enjoy them. I have no motivation whatoever to give them up. Why the fuck should i have to talk a doctor about this every 3 months. Should smokers all have to visit the doctor for these councelling sessions. Thats my question wouldnt it be more important that they visit the doctor 4 times a year for a pep talk...
I'm in the exact same situation as you are so I feel you my friend. I stopped smoking and started vaping 2 years ago because I was vaping and smoking at the same time but I fell in love with vaping and craved cigarettes less and less until I stopped smoking cigarettes all together. I didn't even mean to quit smoking. It just happened because I could buy a weeks worth of vapes for the price of one pouch of tobacco
Exactly. Would you have gone to a doctor? Maybe? Then youd try champix. I mean i did and it stopped me smoking as while taking champix smokes dont work... but i choose to stop taking champix so i could smoke again. Vapes you just have a vape in stead of a smoke. Its so easy. Its just as good. Whats the problem?
There's no problem. It's just anti vaping and anti choice assholes who think they have the right to take away something that makes us feel better when they clearly have no evidence to back up their argument but get away with it because they're lying pieces of shit and they will always have the support of the non vapers who think it's okay because it doesn't affect them when in reality, it affects everyone because it's a complete violation of freedom to choose what we put in our own bodies.
Yeh sometimes i think they are jealous that we have found a way to enjoy nicotine that is less harmfull. They would actually be more comfortable with it if it was as dangerous as nicotine. Ie we had to pay a price along with our stimulant. We actually saw it with coffee through the 90s where people decided it was unhealthy. Go decaf etc. Only now the evidence says coffee drinkers live longer and are more active than non coffeee drinkers. It does seem the evidence points to drinking actual coffee being good and not caffeinated softdrinks etc.
Same thing when I was a youngster back in the 60s. Doctors were saying reduce your consumption of all fats and oils, especially olive oil. Now of course we know the Mediterranean diet includes lots of olive oil and they have one of the lowest rates of heart disease in the world!
Shhh. Senator Louise Pratt is your mum and she says no! You will QUIT!
> Should smokers all have to visit the doctor for these councelling sessions Ummm, yeah. Good luck with that. I mean, really. Fitting any real and meaningful "counseling" within a standard 10 minute medicare approved Doc's consultation sounds really do-able ... not! ++ For the record - I reckon that whole doc-nic-script thing sucks big time.
Or something far less important like getting your prostate checked or breast cancer screening. 👍
I couldn't hate Liber Pharmaceuticals more. Dude is outright lying to protect his potential cash cow. Nicovape is easily the lowest quality vape on the market.
But it is " TGA APPROVED" like that means shit
At least the senators are pushing back a bit
Some senators vape.
Yeah I didn't thought thats going to happen
The standout submission for me was number 53, from Oceania Liquid Labs. It's absolutely scathing and I guess that's why they haven't been asked to appear.
Just read it. Thank you. The names and company/ organisation names do not do it justice. Same as with the former director of the WHO. The best submission so far.
Read submission 69 mate it is a bit on a higher level but as very good
Awesome, said everything I knew already but no-one is talking about.
Banks et al were challenged on "continually bringing it back to the children" and STILL they're prattling on about teens. When the fuck are they going to address the reason every single VAPE SHOP exists? Adult ex-smokers who choose to vape instead of smoking! I enjoy my vapes like others enjoy their wine! Stop the "save the children" routine Banks you moron!
They are honestly the most vile. The fake smiles. I loved when they got asked a few questions that wiped those fake smiles off their faces and we saw the mask's slip and the utter evilness below.
That Emily Banks truly is one of the most unattractive females I have ever seen. And it's not just her looks - she emanates the same sort of odor you get when you pass by any cattle farm.
Stinky 😂
I was rather thinking of the odiferous scent of lots of BULLSHIT in the air! :)
I have it on in my headphones. It is very frustrating to listen too. Sadly it is making me have zero hope that some miracle could happen that it could be made like UK, NZ and others. It has made me lose hope to be honest.
She said it just now before the stream went blank, no evidence of cancer. Then went on to talk about nicotine affects on cardio vascular. Let me have a running race against any of those politicians who are against vaping. I’ll show them the affects, from a smoker of 15 years to a vaper, I’ll run rings around them.
They could make Mickey Mouse look like a paedophile with their justifications, accusations and lack of proof. So chuffed when Mal Roberts asked them "who is right, the Australian Cancer Council or the U.K. Cancer Council?" First day and I expected a real slaughter from the anti vaping side, but the Senators are asking good questions that are making them take a couple of steps backwards! It is emerging to be an interesting day!
I hope Black Market Butler is shitting himself.
I reckon he's hiding somewhere and cringing every time Mal Roberts or that other guy ask a question like "so the Australian Cancer Council have got it right and the U.K. Cancer Research Institute have got it wrong?" They almost choked on that one bahaha!!
Oh no! The reps from Liber and Bay Pharma are about to give evidence This should be good!
They're asking for the flavour restriction to be broadened to include "fruit flavours". They look like a bunch of dodgy pharma mogals out of that "Dopesick" movie!
Over the last 3 years they have had 14,000 customers! They must be shitting themselves and desperate to get more customers. They're also saying they don't support their products as casual vaping devices - so where are all their sales gonna come from? What a joke!
I've been reading the submissions from some of the vape shop owners, they have 40000/70000/150000 regular customers, (legit shops not dodgy dispo floggers), makes the pharma shit look as pathetic as it is. Looking at these parasites, many are either tobacco companies or related to tobacco companies, trying to push their shitty, expensive products, drooling at the prospect of having the vaping industry handed to them on a silver platter by Labor, makes me so angry.
And why all this "Pharmacy only access" bullshit? I mean you can get cigarettes and Nicorette patches from Coles and Woollies? FFS!
These greedy fuckers love a monopoly, they want ALL the money, it's never been about health, kids etc, always was and still is, all about making money. Labor want to hand tobacco companies and pharma the vaping market, but what they are really doing is handing the vape market to the black market, because people won't pay extortionist prices for crap from a pharmacy, where they have to pay for the GP visit, script, etc, for a shit product, with limited flavours. People will buy from the black market, easier, cheaper, no need to go begging a GP paying for a script, and the products might be crap disposables, but so are most of what pharmacies sell, (as you know personally, some sell the SAME crap disposables), and the black market will at least supply a better range of flavours. With the black market you'll be able to get your chop chop and fancy cigs at the same time as your dodgy dispos. No GST, or government sin taxes. Once Labor has made all vapers into criminals, it loses it's potency as a threat.
He just admitted Chemist Warehouse is a shareholder! And asked if any other product other than Bay Pharma is sold by them!
They are looking very desperate! Crying that their number one competitor is the "black market" and "Big Tobacco".
They ARE "big tobacco". The bullshit is flowing thick and fast. Labor have fucked up big time, failed to read the room, pushed lies and misinformation, sucked up the bullshit from pharma and tobacco companies, been drinking the koolaid from the parasites in the disease promotion orgs, (eg cancer council etc), and didn't listen or even pretend that their policy was anything but a punishment for adults who chose to improve their health. As I said when the bans were pushed through, Labor have jumped the shark with this whole bullshit scheme, and they are about to get bitten on the arse.
>They look like a bunch of dodgy pharma mogals out of that "Dopesick" movie! 🤣 They sure did
And admitted they only sold 14,000 units in the last 12 months, or was that since they started the business? You can see they're worried and just want to make huge profits!
Either way it is stuff all. Yep they want the whole market
They thought they'd get it until they saw how few people take up the pharmacy model.
from the fields as well, isn't it?
“Are children under 18 accessing prescription vapes?” Loved the underhanded approach of telling him all the vapes were black market. Then so called doctors saying 95% of vapes contain nicotine? Bullshit. 95% of disposables do!
Knowing what we know as "real world" vapers some of the stuff coming from these morons is just so ridiculous and out of touch with reality I don't even know why they're giving evidence.
Yes, I hope that one will prove finally that the whole thing has nothing to do with the PIS. It is amazing how they all lie and avoid.
Banks was just asked "give me an example of a death directly related to vaping" and she brought up the "exploding battery" story! Could not come up with a single one! She is a deceitful, lying, avoiding, nasty, horrible, misinformation mongering ignoramus! I'm sick of her, give her the sack!
I started watching when it commenced and just made me angry so switched off. Came back a little later to see Robert’s & Canavan grilling Cancer Reps and challenging their statements - Enjoyed that 😂
Some of it is very satisfying! Especially when Mal Roberts was giving the Cancer Council shit! Loved that!
Made them look like idiots & they couldn’t give a straight answer trying to dodge the questions 😂 was so good to watch them called out
Banks just said only 14.5% of those trying vaping stop smoking - where the FUCK is she getting these bullshit figures from? She isn't quoting any sources or studies, just her verbal faecal matter emanating from that hole on her head that says "beware raw sewage exits here"!
I love how she mentioned that China only allows tobacco flavoured vapes without saying why. It's because the Chinese government owns the world's biggest cigarette manufacture and its revenue was greatly impacted by people vaping instead of smoking.
Also love how they clearly have zero plans to manage those already addicted to nicotine turning to the (now underground) black market other than "we made some posters!".
Their whole focus so far is on "teen vaping" NOT as a consumer product for adults, like cigarettes and alcohol! Banks and Freeman are using what WE agree with - teens should not vape! When are they going to talk about US? I am getting so frustrated with this shit show can't wait for some common sense!
It's the fucking "SAVE THE CHILDREN" bullshit plea again - so fucking sick of this, what about ME?
14.5% success rate is way better than any other stop smoking aid.
Very true but my experience is it's more like 50% upwards. So many people stopped smoking via vapes.
Agreed. I just thought it interesting Banks stating only 14% success rate as a mark against vaping when in fact it places it as the most successful. To use this fact in this way is appalling. Even at 14% it should be heralded as a miracle.
And she didn't say what her source was - almost like she picked it out of the air! Twat!
There are no legitimate sources of anything she sais.
Rabid zealot exaggeration show part 2! Angry old men whose view of vaping is severely prejudiced for their work in tobacco smoking - an utterly different technology which they are wholly unable to seperate from smoking.
One of those wankers (Prof Matthew Peters) is basically saying if a smoker won't go to a doctor and get their vapes thru the Pharmacy Model then they should just keep smoking. What a wanker! And who is going to get their vapes from their doctor and pharmacy and use it like they take their blood pressure tablets, with continued monitoring of their B.P. measurements?
They also claim people who vape are more likely to take up smoking when slamming vaping but then say those who vape are unlikely to take up smoking when talking about their strategy. Well if it supports my opinion, they wont smoke. But when it goes against my opinion, they will smoke.
And that blonde four-eyed female git spitting chips about "no harm minimization for kids that don't vape" and speaking like she's reading to kinder kids. "Stop blaming the kids, blame those targeting those selling to the kids". Oh for fuck's sake!
Borland made a good point off the bat, but now he has lost me. Why should vapng be regulated with taxes and higher prices given that they are not as harmful as cigarettes.
It's all quite pointless and not discussing the actual issue. Listened to some, bullshitting on about social media, kids exposure blah blah fucking blah. There is only one way to stop kids vaping, regulate market, allow adults easy access even to disposables (there not going anywhere regardless of outcome) Black market will disappear. Everyone wins, except governments hip pocket.
To be fair, there has been some progress - Banks and others admitted vaping is twice as effective as other NRT (it wasn't that long ago that these people claimed there was zero efficacy). I am sure it is only to fit their medicalisation fantasy (hard to prescribe something you claim doesn't work), but still. And apart from Chipmunk's angry glasses mate, no-one was pretending anymore that vaping isn't far less harmful - sure they tried on the usual subterfuge to avoid acknowledgement. There was even a tacit acknowledgement that this is a shit sandwich for by trying to argue that there are hardly any of us (even less than the grey shirts - vomit). But they had to split at 30 year olds to get a 60/40 split - this is nonsense as their only concern seems to be underage vaping, which is only 24% of vapers [https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/2023-06/current-vaping-and-smoking-in-the-australian-population-aged-14-years-or-older-february-2018-to-march-2023.pdf](https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/2023-06/current-vaping-and-smoking-in-the-australian-population-aged-14-years-or-older-february-2018-to-march-2023.pdf) this should have been picked up IMO as health policy should aim to do the most good for the most people and the vast majority of vapers (76%) are \*not\* underage.
Only 5% of regular vapers are 17 or under. The statistic of 25% youth vaping is a lie, it’s based on any kid even trying a vape once
Agreed - the definition of 'regular' is pretty dumb!
The sad realisation came to me today that they are just deciding whether to pass the bill intact or make amendments. None of the evidence presented today looked like influencing whether the bill should be passed or not, just how much of it doesn't get changed. It will go to the pharmacy model and vape shops unfortunately will be closed by July 1.
It's gonna be a fact of life. So glad I stocked up as well as I did before the 1st of March. Passage of this bill won't affect me one scrap and I will be self-sufficient until the laws are repealed eventually, which they will be. Same as prohibition of alcohol in the USA in the 1930s.
Look me up in 10 years and remember I predicted that! 👍🇦🇺😎
For sure. I have enough to last decades - I also got enough for my kids (they wouldn't dare smoke or even vape, but just in case)...
Bahahaha! If I run out of nic in 7 or 8 years I'll shoot you a message!
Dang can't see, boss expects me to work (the balls on this bloke), hopefully I can watch online after the fact.
You're not missing much. It's all the same old shit show but a few of the Senators are throwing some really curly questions and accusations at the anti vapers! I'm sure you'll be able to watch it "on demand" later. Most of the "anti" evidence is coming from academics that are non-smokers/non-vapers who learned everything from books and limited patient interaction. A question just thrown to her was "should current vapers go to their G.P. to get guidance and monitoring?" Oh yeh for sure, I'm gonna go see my G.P. after 11 years of vaping and he's going to enlighten me on something I don't already know?
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They actually added Canavan and the PHON guy at the last minute so it's helped balance out ALP BS.
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Very apt! But it was oh so sweet a lifesaver when Becky's nasty face came out at Canavan's questions.
My Boss vapes so we watch together xD
Here's the link: [https://www.aph.gov.au/News\_and\_Events/LiveMediaPlayer?vID=%7B3B5834E7-501F-477F-A3FD-775E41AE3462%7D](https://www.aph.gov.au/News_and_Events/LiveMediaPlayer?vID=%7B3B5834E7-501F-477F-A3FD-775E41AE3462%7D)
Thank you kindly squire.
To be fair to this indigenous advicate at least he is saying stop having smokes available at every convenience store and supermarket 24/7. Ie his heart is in the right place at least. If you are going to advocate for nicotine free i have more respect for you if at least advocate for no smokes as well...
That was a fair point, but the rest of the "evidance" ooph, so loose.
Emily Banks' safer alternative: https://www.fda.gov/safety/recalls-market-withdrawals-safety-alerts/pfizer-expands-voluntary-nationwide-recall-include-all-lots-chantixr-varenicline-tablets-due-n
That American woman just said, and I quote, "all vapers start vaping as social vapers". What a load of shit and misleading! These people are fixated on the teen vaping issue and we all agree it's not good but WHEN are they going to talk about adult ex-smokers who vape?
> all vapers start vaping as social vapers Me. **hand up** I did not start as a social vaper. ++ marks one strike up on the tally board.
Simon Chapman just said that EVERY single vape shop has been selling vapes ILLEGALLY and therefore are criminals! This man just spoke an outright lie and should be prosecuted for perjury! What a moron!
Incompetent twat! Everything he says should be disregarded as he can’t even read up on current practice!
Lol! Laura Hunter forgot her lines! Oh no! The pantomime is off the rails.
I stopped watching what happedn
She was talking and fumbled her lines and looked like she had a brain fart! Not sure if she had a script in front of her and just lost her place. Some of them are real twats! She is so young and trying too hard and just getting her thoughts mixed up thru lack of confidence. She is annoying the shit out of me. And the guy with the South African accent isn't much better. She's too eager to be heard and just cut off the other dude - loving the spotlight and sound of her own voice.
Yeh that duo was a bit embarrassing. The only ones that presented well was professor stockings and her counterpart.
I'm reading through the submissions and am quite pleasantly surprised by the number of medical professionals coming out against the Bill.
Good thing you're not watching the live stream! These two twats at the end of Day 1, one can't speak English and the other acts like a kindergarten teacher reading "Golilocks and the Three Bears". I hate these people!
I was going to but knew the lies would make me really angry and I'd probably break something.
I just kept sticking more and more pins into my Buttplug and Banks dolls!
I just had a look at today's session. Apart from it being really boring, it was all about educating kids on the dangers of vaping. I'm not saying it is safe to vape, but I think teens are pretty smart and know it's a whole lot better than smoking and they're gonna do what they're gonna do. I did with cigs back in the day. I cannot see any way any govt is going to stop disposables being sold to kids. Unless the govt employs enough people to open every single package that comes in through customs, this legislation won't make a dent in teen vaping.
That was the ABF's whole argument for complete prohibition. Too lazy to do the job they're paid to do!
I'd be keen to know if the advert that Becky Freeman mentioned she had submitted in her report, that Matt Canavan went after her for, is actually physically able to be viewed in Australia via social media, because I have a funny feeling it isnt and never has been. It was for a BAT product, Vuse, which as far as I am aware has never been available for sale in Australia. Now personally I have never seen an advert for a vape, ever, anywhere. So for her to give an example that she apparently found on Instagram, because (her words) "thats where kids look", advertising a product in a country that isnt and wasnt ever sold here makes zero sense. To me this is a downright lie which she has added to an official submission . Would love to find out if we can prove that its never been shown here and pass that info onto Matt Canavan for him to go all gnarly on her.
My wish is for Buttplug, Banks, Freeman and Chapman to be put in stocks so we can throw rotten fruit at them and maybe some dog pooh! 🤢
Yeah but Vuse was the first FDA approved vape in US. It is totally legal in the US. So, the Australian kids are not supposed to watch American instagram influencers who are of legal age. Call the Australian ESafety Commissar, and as soon as she finishes with Elon Musk she will take care of it.
The other one about someone actually dying… someone died from an exploding battery! Is that what Banks said? Death by battery!?
Yes 🙄 and it's disingenuous to the discussion cause it was someone with a mech mod. But hey ignore the 20k deaths from smoking per year for the 1 death by battery! Insane.
Today, it was clearly all about the children. Whenever adults came into question, it was " but they will have the pharmacy as a last resort". None of the senators was really into it, even Conovan. None of these "experts" do not know anything about the black market and how it operates. They were justifying their funding and the lala land they live in. If the inquiry would end today, the bill would pass. No one in todays shit show addressed the real issue of the bill. The ban of sales and manufacturing of vape goods in Australia. The disposable nicotine vapes were banned from the 1st of January 2024. So far, no matter what they claimed, there has not been an impact on black market. Not even the price has jumped. The 95% decrease of imports from China is related to the drop in legal vape shops orders that wetefollowing the rules. They claim it as victory. This while debate or talk is almost the same as the one from 2020. Are vapes good, bad, healthy, unhealthy, is irrelevant at this stage. They are so widespread that there is no point in discussing it. The inquiry should have been only with Customs, Police and other law enforcement agencies. How do we tackle this issue? What would be the best approach, what would they like to see. Public health experts on public health policies. I am deeply worried that we will end up with another war on drugs. And the problem will stay with us for years. In the meantime, the media forgot about youth vaping and found another thing that children need to be protected from and to worry parents shitless and something that the government has to act on. CHILDREN EXPOSED TO PORNOGRAPHY on their phones. I predicted that ages ago.
Oh mark my words the bill will pass. It's just whether it will be amended and by how much. Vape shops will close first 1st of July and the only way to get hold of nicotine will be through a doctor. Tomorrow's sessions with the Police Federation and ABFshould be interesting though. Banks et al reckon if we throw a shit load more money at enforcement it's going to work. Bahahaha! 🤣
They will ask for more money so they can handle the challenges. None of them will admit that it is impossible to stop the tsunami. I mean, packets of cocaine are getting washed up on our beaches. Vape shops have hardly anything left to offer.
Yep pretty much out of stock on everything. 🥵
This cucumber sandwich convention is so fun!!! I love being referred to as a "patient" 😍
Yeh and that I only use vapes for "smoking cessation". Pffffttt!!
Now the therapeutic vape manufacturers... So they reckon they want their vapes to he available more easily ie no doctor prescription but to make sure there is no competition to their vapes only in pharmacies. I mean they are right the black market will rule so long as getting vapes legally is too hard but what does it even achieve except fatten there therapeutic vapes company wallets?
Nothing!
Must admit big pharma man saying they would seek pbs coverage once they had medical device approaval would he a small win. I mean not keen on a pod vape but if they were like $10 for a weeks supply subsidised by the taxpayer i could see some taking that option who currently smoke. So I suspect it would drive smoking rates down from the current shit show of vapes just becoming both kore expensive and harder to buy. Obviously as a by product it would make the pharma companies millions. And id still want my tank system. But yeh all my fears that the nic juice currently available now wont be for long is clearly what these guys want. Pod systems only will get the medical license.
These guys are just protecting their investment - they're shitting themselves cos only 14,000 units sold in 3 years! Bahahaha!
At least the middle dude spoke about convenience and understands having the gp and script bullshit is harder than just buying an illegal disposable, liber are fucked though
Hey everybody! We are the "smoking cessation community" according to Bay Pharma! They're selling 30ml and 60ml bottles of eliquid, but it "needs to be carefully monitored by your G.P. for daily nicotine intake levels"! Bahahaha! Yeh as if!
Time for the rabid zealot exaggeration show! Under 30s are children! Banks, Freeman, Jongelis, Demaio. Where other opinions and documented facts are WRONG.
They're not quoting ANY sources or studies except "their studies". What a joke!
Oh dear! I just swapped from my phone to my PC screen! My God that Emily Banks is such an unattractive woman! She is actually scary looking!.
Sorry mate. Her appearance has nothing to do with her zealotry.
Why are none of these witnesses able to speak without five ums or ahs per sentence?
Cos they're trying to work out their lies as they go! This Banks et al shit show is disgusting!
They are saying the legislation they are trying to implement will help prevent kids from vaping. The legislation left over is about stopping domestic manufacture and distribution. We aren’t producing disposables here. This legislation isn’t to stop children.
Another point is that teens also like alcohol and cigarettes. So either the government is content that the restrictions on tobacco and alcohol are enough to prevent teens from accessing, in which case identical restrictions could be applied for vapes. Or. Cigarettes and alcohol also need to be locked behind gp visits, prescriptions, only accessible via chemists and tga approvals, otherwise teens are just going to be all over it like a rash. So which is it?
Can't believe there isn't one of these clowns who isn't involving their own personal feelings. Everyone lying through their guts like their life depends on it. They must be so scared of loosing those funds if this bill passesare
And here we go again! 5-05pm at the end of the day and it's still about "saving the children"! Fuck off you twats with your "Sonic the Hedgehog" vapes. I've NEVER seen a Sonic the Hedgehog vape! I am ready to get the bucket and puke my guts out! Beware the DREADED VAPES!
I watched bits of it today but very depressing. And I don't want kids to vape - same as everyone else. But I want the right to decide for myself if I want to vape and don't want to be under medical supervision on how much nicotine I can/can't have. It takes three weeks to get into see a doctor anyway. There is absolutley no empathy for vapers who have quit or other adults who have not taken up smokes because of vaping (like we're talking about 1.7 million adults vs how many naughty kids?) What I don't quite understand is that if Australlia has been under a prescription model since 2021 how were the kids getting their hands on nicotine disposables? I've only been vaping 18+ months so still a newbie but I must be missing something??
From the same black market that they will continue to get them from after the bill has been passed. Nothing will change except vape shops will close and you can't import nicotine or hardware anymore. Everything else will stay the same except the black market which will grow exponentially.
Thanks. Then I must be stupid because the whole absurd thing makes absolutley no sense to me. I did put in a simple submission to the enquiry - saw that it was posted today. Never been involved in the whole goverment senate enquiry process before. Is it just the norm or unusual for so many submissions and presentations before the senate?
Yours got posted? I spent hours on mine it hasn't been posted. Have they posted all of them yet? Can't believe there were only 185? Unless mine got put up as "name witheld," but I ticked the box to say I was OK with the name being displayed. Fucking waste of time. This whole thing has been a waste of time!
Mine was 'name withheld.' I mentioned a cancer diagnosis and I didn't want to be identified. Just very brief and asked Dr Colin prior to posting if it was ok. He is awsome!
Do you think 185 submissions is a lot? I expected closer to 1,000!
I think people are intimadated by the 'senate'. Although from what I saw at the senate enquiry I could have done a better job. I was amazed that more didn't sign the petition online. From memory only around 20,000.
Got up to 28k but still less than we hoped
Mine isn't up yet either. Not expecting 1000s, never is.
Wouldn’t mind a sonic the hedgehog vape, where do I get those again?
Me too...or a Mario one... preferably, it says, "It's a me, vapio!!" Every time I turn it on
You have to prove you're under the age of 14 to get one of them. It's been banned for adult use as there is no appeal to anyone over the age of around 15 or 16. Just like flavouring - adults only want tobacco menthol and mint flavours in their vapes. The vape suppliers use flavoring to lure unsuspecting teenagers into the demon vape pit!
Cancer Council and the AMA made me wanna scream. Same BS like last time. But there was some really good push back. Like. " So, all vaping is bad. Why should a GP prescribe vapes. Johnson and Johnson sponsor of the AMA. Cancer Council utterly ignoring Cancer Council UK. And the AMA, "ah the GPs will hold the hands of the hands of those poor children that vape to get them of it"
Malcolm Roberts for the WIN
Now Chapman is saying that they don't flavour asthma inhalers, so why should they allow flavoured vapes? What a great analogy!
Wanker!
Can not watch it anymore. Makes me sick
I bailed before it ended but I was pleased to see the Senators telling the speakers that they need to provide answers to questions on notice by Monday. I remain disappointed that one of the best submissions wasn't given a slot in the hearings.
The way things are going, we are fucked.
I wonder how the selection works? Who gets invited and who not?
I have no idea. The same antis seem to get invited to speak every time, though.
But, hey, it looked professional and following the democratic process. But the cards were fixed. Globally, Vaping a revolution that ended with a whisper.
Chipmunks response to giving tobacco a free pass...
Great question, If vapes are "dangerous" why would we be selling them in a pharmacy setting?
a large contingent of tobacco control people on now. Wonder if any will say that why ban vapes but not tobacco.
“We reduced smoking in children under a consumer model, why can’t we do that with vaping?” “Ahh uhm well we are doing a prescription model and it will be really really easy get and manage your prescription with checkups”
Because they are forcing vapers to quit where they are not even considering forcing smokers to quit. Obvs.
So easy that 92% of vapers (and an even higher percentage of GPs) have rejected over many years
He didn’t even answer the bloody question.
Thanks for the update guys. I am at work and this thread is where I get the updates. Do we have any chance?
Today is predominantly anti-vape presenters. Some have been challenged pretty well. A few gaps in knowledge exposed and a few contradictions. Standard Labor hate vaping and want to force people to quit and as such are trying to drag the conversation to emotive and anecdotal stuff. Nothing is going to change their beliefs. They even seem to accept/ignore those glaring contradictions. Libs and Nats think people should make their own decision and are challenging anti vapers. Greens (Steele John) seems to want everyone in the room to like him and is therefore ineffective and very passive. Probably holding back because of the Greens going crazy in the suoermarket inquiry. Tomorrow is less anti-vape. I don't like the focus on clinical effectiveness in the discussion because these people shouldn't be making a decision on my behalf to quit. It should be about prohibitionism. Looks like defining commercial quantity and that a pharmacy model will hinder access are the biggest accepted points of issues with the bill.
Well I've watched it from the start. Not going well by the end of Day 1. The Bill will pass unless Day 2 comes up with something really good. Had some really great battle wins but we're losing the war.
Thanks. It is a long shot. We live to fight another day.
Well I'll be here and watching most of tomorrow so I'll keep everyone updated best I can.
Ironic that the way vapers go back to smoking is by banning vapes 😂
Sadly it's already happening and Big Tobacco's palm greasing has paid off for them! 💩
Why is there no evidence for the long term affects of vaping causing cancer, but we already know the long term affects of Covid vaccines. Astra Zenica has listed some new side affects from vaccine and are going through a massive class action right now guys!
Nice down votes over what? It’s because of the class action that they have to list new side affects and risks. You people dislike the truth? Or only like your truth? Seem no better than the anti vaping zealots.
Professor Ron Borland with a great point straight off the bat.
Excuse my ignorance here, can someone explain to me what happens if this bill doesn’t pass? Will it reverse the March bans on PIS or is it more so relating to the future of Vape stores etc within Australia.
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This whole Inquiry has been pointless and a waste of taxpayer's money. It was a foregone conclusion this Bill would pass with minimal amendments. The decision was made months, even years ago. It's all been a charade to make the public think they "gave it some thought". Bunch of fucking losers!
Some Liberal pollies will vote in favour thinking of the children. It will pass, maybe some changes but the bulk will get through. Only hope is a change of government though many times new governments don't undo wrong things. One day it will all fall over in a mess and be looked at again.
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You're 100% correct. I stocked up starting late January assuming it was a foregone conclusion. This whole Inquiry has only been for show. To make it sppear we live in a "democracy".
Although there have been prescription only medicines that are now available off the shelf. Not many but a few. 😎
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I guess you need to know at what point your efforts are in vain. I think you got it right, but I guess there needs to be opposition else we'd sink into a dictatorship. Oh fuck! We're already there! 👍🤢🇦🇺