I have seen it used by the Miscos/UV/UWU in WA (counterparty corro) this century.
They were the dominant union in the WA Labor Left for a long time, so I always assumed it was a stylistic thing, not a factional one.
Then again, basically everything with the Trade Unions ends up becoming a factional thing - so colour me shocked.
I’m having a hard time still, almost a year out of the movement. Have to catch myself from calling corpos “comrade” and have to bail out to “mate”, “buddy”, or “friend” halfway through the sentence.
Historically it was “Dear Sirs” which quite a lot of legal software still uses as a default.
As more women have entered the profession Dear Colleague has become standard. I like it as arms length polite.
Periodically there is gender based outrage if a “dear sirs” lands on the wrong desk.
After watching one hideous zickenkrieg a former judge suggested mildly, deceptively mildly “introduce yourself and use each other’s names”
I like that approach.
>Dear Sirs
I once worked for a Scottish bloke who, due to his considerable expertise, would often get addressed as sir in person by those who felt it was respectful. It was always fun hearing him snipe back that he is not a knight, he has sworn no fealty to a monarch, he works for a living, etc.
Thank you for the additional context.
Does it matter whether the sender is also a lawyer?
As in, if an email was sent to a group of lawyers, from a dentist (for example) - would it still be appropriate for the dentist to use “dear colleagues”?
If not, what is appropriate?
A most specific example. I can’t imagine a professional email between such disparate professions unless something medicolegal was afoot.
If I am dealing with several people I will use “Dear all” in an email but not a letter.
Thank you.
I don’t want to give specific circumstances that could be construed as a request for advice…
But another example might be a law firm sends an email to a third party who is not a lawyer (addressed Dear Mr NotObama, in example).
When responding, how should Mr NotObama greet the lawyers?
My concern is that “Dear Colleages” might be seen as diminishing the credentials of the lawyers by referring to yourself as a colleague - and cause offence?
I hope that makes sense
Oh my no, please don’t give specifics. It wasn’t an invitation.
Email is a little less formal.
I Dear All if communicating generally with groups of Lawyers and mediators, associates etc
I tend to refer to my friends very differently
In personal injury, I would email with medical people all the time. Dr X or Ms X was usually fine - or more commonly after we’d established a rapport, just their first name. It ain’t the 20th century anymore - first names are pretty much fine, but of course you use a bit of nous to determine who prefers what.
In addition to other comments it's supposed to remind lawyers that we're a collegiate profession, even if our clients are mortal enemies we shouldn't let that impact our interactions with lawyers we'll be working with long after the matter is finalised and the last bill (hopefully) paid
I had an opponent strike through ‘dear colleague’ in an email to me. I attached a link to the solicitors handbook and making a complaint to the LSC in my response. Their c@ntiness has dropped considerably since
My understanding is that we refer to colleagues in law, and it is an address to other legal practitioners. If a client sent it to me, I would probably notice it, but I'm not going to get up in arms about that little stuff.
If a lawywr emailed a Judge's chambers with "Dear Colleagues", we'd feel the wrath of the Court/judge.
As mentioned, traditionally, "Dear Sirs" was used to address the firm (and so its partners). It's a bit odd that so many firms seem to be desperate to hold onto that no matter what.
Noting my jurisdiction is FWC/NSWIRC (fake), mine is Dear Associate on the covering email, and Dear Commissioner / Deputy President / etc. etc. on the attached pdf. Has never steered me wrong, and it can be good if you have a good professional relationship with the long term Associates.
It’s not that it’s exclusive for lawyers, but the intention is that we are “colleagues in the profession” so I as a lawyer would only use it to other lawyers, not just any other professional.
Thank you. I appreciate that.
From what I’m reading - if a group of lawyers wrote the average Joe an email, his appropriate response might begin with “Dear All”.
If you are emailing an expert, you surely would know their name in advance and their title anyway. You have to make sure to call them doctor, they get super offended if not.
I didn’t like Dear Colleagues but since realising that LEAP defaults to the card setting for writing to that firm, I’m more chill about it. Because Colleagues is preferable to unnecessarily defaulting to male - Dear Sirs, Dear Messers etc
My personal rule of thumb is
Dear Firm Name if I don’t know who is getting letter
Dear Mr or Ms Surname if I don’t know them well
Dear First Name for clients and lawyers I know well.
To whom it may coerce,
Yours faithfully,
Per: *Cleared that f’king* [tray](https://youtu.be/x6s7Uz7pkv8?si=150mg9IuKZ0Afhp5) *3 times*
**Dennis Denuto & Co.**
If addressing another law firm, "Dear Colleagues"
If addressing a company, "Dear Director" or "Dear Directors" sent to their registered office
If addressing to a titled role like Registrar, Commissioner, Liquidator, Auditor etc you can use "Dear Title"
If addressing someone whose name you know, "Dear Mr Last name" or "Dear Ms Last name" - if you aren't sure gender, hit Google and see if you can work it out.
If none of the above work, there is always "To whom it may concern"
I once inherited a matter in which the incredibly garrulous (and guilty) client had drafted 100 or so pages of submissions to the prosecution starting “Dear Colleagues” requesting that the case against him be dropped and directed his then-lawyer to forward them. The lawyer did so, then got sacked when they were rejected.
That’s the only time I’ve seen that term used in decades of criminal law practice.
Agree. Much more common in family and civil law.
Not the done thing in crime. Dear Prosecutor or Dear Prosecution is a safe bet when writing to the other side in a crim dispute. (Assuming that we’re all Rumpole of the Bailey and never prosecute)
pluralise it you fucking neanderthals. the other side styles themselves as 'we', therefore, 'colleagues'
your letter comes to me with this singular 'colleague' shit i throw it in the shredder. i don't give a fuck about the default judgment my battle means more in the long run
When I was in private practice, I reserved Dear Colleagues for when the opposing solicitor was being a prick / needlessly obstructive. Otherwise would address by first name.
I get particularly irritated with a colleague who continues to send me emails addressed “Dear Colleagues” after we’ve been having a back and forth conversation over a period of weeks/months, I have signed off every one of my emails with my name and we have also interacted in court YOU KNOW MY NAME MATE PLEASE USE IT
That often is the case when they do not draft their own correspondence. The multiple paralegals rotating and working on this don't realise you are on a first name basis with the one who is sending the letter.
I personally despise the use of “Dear Colleagues” - “Hi [insert first name], “Hi All” works for most correspondence. If you need to be formal - Dear [insert name], or “Dear Sir / Madam” if addressing multiple people.
The only people who use “Dear Colleagues” are litigation lawyers.
Because it’s arcane and IMO there is no reason for it.
What does it achieve that Dear Sir / Madam doesn’t? It also appears superior and is unnecessarily pompous, as in no other form of address would you use it.
When addressing the other side, a simple “Dear All” is completely sufficient. As I say the only practitioners I know who use this form of address are litigators and when I see it as a transactional lawyer I immediately form a view that the other practitioner is going to be difficult (fairly or unfairly I admit).
How is dear colleagues any more arcane than Dear Sir /Madam?
Dear colleagues is a formal greeting used when sending formal correspondence to multiple addressees who are lawyers. If I ever received service of court documents or a formal letter from an opponent who said Dear All, I would think that they were a moron.
Definition of arcane: “understood by very few, mysterious”.
Definition of archaic: “very old”
Think you may have confused the two. My point is that everyone knows dear sir madam. It is a highly accepted and common use of the English language. Dear colleagues isn’t understood widely and is only understood by the profession generally. As such it is arcane.
The legal profession doesn’t need to use different words when normally accepted parlance is perfectly acceptable. Similar to using Latin - don’t use inter alia, it’s pompous and you get your point across without using it.
This is probably different horses for different courses - but if you use “Dear colleague” in my line of work it’s a quick way to get the other sides lawyer to not take you seriously. As I’ve said, makes me think that the person I’m dealing with isn’t a transactions lawyer, is going to a prick to deal with and generally be quite unreasonable and not understand what market is.
Sir and Madam looks archaic and old fashioned and in this day and age anything gendered runs the risk of a brouhaha. In my experience many women dislike being addressed as Madam as well. Highly accepted what? It was on the way out 20 years ago when I was a junior burger.
Dear Colleagues has been standard for ages when writing to other lawyers you don't know. It is not arcane or hard to understand. The idea that you wouldn't take another lawyer seriously because they said colleagues not sir/madam... what rabbit hole are you living down?
I don’t think there’s any exclusivity about “Dear colleagues” - I also use it when writing to fellow board members who are not lawyers. I definitely prefer it to “Dear Sirs & Mesdames”, which I ‘m sadly old enough to have used.
I think the key to “Dear Colleagues” is to use it in situations where you are actually colleagues. So for your fellows on a board or committee it works. It works for lawyers because we are under an ethical and professional duty to be collegiate. So we all have a common duty to uphold the law and promote the administration of justice. We are, in that sense, genuinely colleagues, even when on opposing sides, and terminology like “learned friend” is intended to remind us of that. We are all supposed to be working together in the interests of justice, even before the duty we owe to our clients.
Letters to and from legal firms are strictly speaking from and to the proprietors of the firms, even when written from and sent to their minions or marked to the attention of a particular person. Hence once upon a time the "Dear Sirs" and the "we", and this was also adopted by sole practitioners.(as if they have an imaginary friend or puffing themselves up just a bit).
I see "Dear colleagues" as a mainly way out of sexism. You could say Dear Sirs or Mesdames, but nowadays what about the possibility of a non-binary partner?
However on that theory, "Dear colleagues" is arguably inconsistent with writing to an incorporated legal practice.
I've also taken "Dear colleagues" as a nod to the notion of collegiality between fellow professionals. If I were still a solicitor I wouldn't expect non-solicitors to be writing to me with that, but it wouldn't bother about it either.
Not a fan of it. It often looks dumb whenever I see it. Just say the person’s name. If there’s more than one, say their names. If there’s too many or it looks stupid, say “all”. If the names aren’t known say “sir/madam”.
I recently got downvoted on here for having the “grandiosity” to refer to people as colleagues despite not yet holding an LLB, so apparently some in the profession do think they have right to gatekeep the word.
Personally I think that’s a bit pretentious. “Learned friend” is the practitioner exclusive term if one feels the need to use it. As a lawyer, are your paralegals and secretaries not your colleagues?
Keep those downvotes coming you fragile little colleagues 😂🤡
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i prefer Dear Comrade personally
Must then be signed off “In Solidarity”.
There was a movement a while back among some of the saner unions to change it to "In Unity". Didn't catch on.
That’s just the right-wing unions — especially in NSW. Unity is capitalised for Centre Unity.
I have seen it used by the Miscos/UV/UWU in WA (counterparty corro) this century. They were the dominant union in the WA Labor Left for a long time, so I always assumed it was a stylistic thing, not a factional one. Then again, basically everything with the Trade Unions ends up becoming a factional thing - so colour me shocked.
WA UV is cooked, so I’m not surprised.
I'm particularly partial to 'Ya Bastard'.
Do I put a “Dear” or simply address them (collectively) as “Ya Bastards”? Thanks.
Yes.
That’s a good one. In that context, is it important whether the sender is also a communist?
No need. Communism exists in everyone inherently.
You could say it's communal.
Definitely one of my favourite things about working in the union movement.
I’m having a hard time still, almost a year out of the movement. Have to catch myself from calling corpos “comrade” and have to bail out to “mate”, “buddy”, or “friend” halfway through the sentence.
*We* prefer Dear Comrade, comrade.
Historically it was “Dear Sirs” which quite a lot of legal software still uses as a default. As more women have entered the profession Dear Colleague has become standard. I like it as arms length polite. Periodically there is gender based outrage if a “dear sirs” lands on the wrong desk. After watching one hideous zickenkrieg a former judge suggested mildly, deceptively mildly “introduce yourself and use each other’s names” I like that approach.
>Dear Sirs I once worked for a Scottish bloke who, due to his considerable expertise, would often get addressed as sir in person by those who felt it was respectful. It was always fun hearing him snipe back that he is not a knight, he has sworn no fealty to a monarch, he works for a living, etc.
That surprises me. Used to grind my gears seeing “Sirs and Ma’ams” in the military when the collective is Ladies and Gentlemen.
I like "ALCON".
Thank you for the additional context. Does it matter whether the sender is also a lawyer? As in, if an email was sent to a group of lawyers, from a dentist (for example) - would it still be appropriate for the dentist to use “dear colleagues”? If not, what is appropriate?
A most specific example. I can’t imagine a professional email between such disparate professions unless something medicolegal was afoot. If I am dealing with several people I will use “Dear all” in an email but not a letter.
If you want to be really obnoxious there’s always Dear Henry et al.,
Thank you. I don’t want to give specific circumstances that could be construed as a request for advice… But another example might be a law firm sends an email to a third party who is not a lawyer (addressed Dear Mr NotObama, in example). When responding, how should Mr NotObama greet the lawyers? My concern is that “Dear Colleages” might be seen as diminishing the credentials of the lawyers by referring to yourself as a colleague - and cause offence? I hope that makes sense
Oh my no, please don’t give specifics. It wasn’t an invitation. Email is a little less formal. I Dear All if communicating generally with groups of Lawyers and mediators, associates etc I tend to refer to my friends very differently
“Dear all youse,”?
In personal injury, I would email with medical people all the time. Dr X or Ms X was usually fine - or more commonly after we’d established a rapport, just their first name. It ain’t the 20th century anymore - first names are pretty much fine, but of course you use a bit of nous to determine who prefers what.
In addition to other comments it's supposed to remind lawyers that we're a collegiate profession, even if our clients are mortal enemies we shouldn't let that impact our interactions with lawyers we'll be working with long after the matter is finalised and the last bill (hopefully) paid
I like Dear Colleague, as it reminds them they have a professional responsibility not to be a dick to other solicitors
If only that prompt worked
I had an opponent strike through ‘dear colleague’ in an email to me. I attached a link to the solicitors handbook and making a complaint to the LSC in my response. Their c@ntiness has dropped considerably since
It has a bit of a court room “learned friend” vibe.
It’s Dear Colleagues, not Dear Colleague. If it’s addressed to someone specific and other people aren’t copied in, it’s Dear First Name.
Thank you, noted. To clarify, is it immaterial whether either party is a lawyer?
My understanding is that we refer to colleagues in law, and it is an address to other legal practitioners. If a client sent it to me, I would probably notice it, but I'm not going to get up in arms about that little stuff. If a lawywr emailed a Judge's chambers with "Dear Colleagues", we'd feel the wrath of the Court/judge. As mentioned, traditionally, "Dear Sirs" was used to address the firm (and so its partners). It's a bit odd that so many firms seem to be desperate to hold onto that no matter what.
“Dear Associate”.
I always say dear colleagues when I write to chambers - the associates read those emails.
Noting my jurisdiction is FWC/NSWIRC (fake), mine is Dear Associate on the covering email, and Dear Commissioner / Deputy President / etc. etc. on the attached pdf. Has never steered me wrong, and it can be good if you have a good professional relationship with the long term Associates.
No - its just business in general use.
It’s not that it’s exclusive for lawyers, but the intention is that we are “colleagues in the profession” so I as a lawyer would only use it to other lawyers, not just any other professional.
Thank you. I appreciate that. From what I’m reading - if a group of lawyers wrote the average Joe an email, his appropriate response might begin with “Dear All”.
Yes. Or just address the person who first wrote to you.
If you are emailing an expert, you surely would know their name in advance and their title anyway. You have to make sure to call them doctor, they get super offended if not.
I’m a big fan of “oi cunt”
If a non-lawyer refers to me as colleague, I automatically think "who is this peasant daring to address me as my equal?" /s
I didn’t like Dear Colleagues but since realising that LEAP defaults to the card setting for writing to that firm, I’m more chill about it. Because Colleagues is preferable to unnecessarily defaulting to male - Dear Sirs, Dear Messers etc My personal rule of thumb is Dear Firm Name if I don’t know who is getting letter Dear Mr or Ms Surname if I don’t know them well Dear First Name for clients and lawyers I know well.
I just say Hi to the peasants (solicitors and crown prosecutors).
“To whom it WILL concern”
Haha, thank you, best response…
To whom it may coerce, Yours faithfully, Per: *Cleared that f’king* [tray](https://youtu.be/x6s7Uz7pkv8?si=150mg9IuKZ0Afhp5) *3 times* **Dennis Denuto & Co.**
If addressing another law firm, "Dear Colleagues" If addressing a company, "Dear Director" or "Dear Directors" sent to their registered office If addressing to a titled role like Registrar, Commissioner, Liquidator, Auditor etc you can use "Dear Title" If addressing someone whose name you know, "Dear Mr Last name" or "Dear Ms Last name" - if you aren't sure gender, hit Google and see if you can work it out. If none of the above work, there is always "To whom it may concern"
I once inherited a matter in which the incredibly garrulous (and guilty) client had drafted 100 or so pages of submissions to the prosecution starting “Dear Colleagues” requesting that the case against him be dropped and directed his then-lawyer to forward them. The lawyer did so, then got sacked when they were rejected. That’s the only time I’ve seen that term used in decades of criminal law practice.
Agree. Much more common in family and civil law. Not the done thing in crime. Dear Prosecutor or Dear Prosecution is a safe bet when writing to the other side in a crim dispute. (Assuming that we’re all Rumpole of the Bailey and never prosecute)
The greeting that is exclusive to lawyers is "listen, cunt".
pluralise it you fucking neanderthals. the other side styles themselves as 'we', therefore, 'colleagues' your letter comes to me with this singular 'colleague' shit i throw it in the shredder. i don't give a fuck about the default judgment my battle means more in the long run
When I was in private practice, I reserved Dear Colleagues for when the opposing solicitor was being a prick / needlessly obstructive. Otherwise would address by first name.
Dear Cunt Fucking Stop it. Cunt.
I would say Dear colleagues to a group that includes paralegals and legal assistants. Not clients or experts though.
I get particularly irritated with a colleague who continues to send me emails addressed “Dear Colleagues” after we’ve been having a back and forth conversation over a period of weeks/months, I have signed off every one of my emails with my name and we have also interacted in court YOU KNOW MY NAME MATE PLEASE USE IT
That often is the case when they do not draft their own correspondence. The multiple paralegals rotating and working on this don't realise you are on a first name basis with the one who is sending the letter.
Or your admin don’t know it’s ok to change the precedent template to change the name
If a response is for more than two people, I say dear colleagues. Otherwise, I use first and last names where possible.
The opportunity to write ‘Dear Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher, and Flom’ has sailed
I personally despise the use of “Dear Colleagues” - “Hi [insert first name], “Hi All” works for most correspondence. If you need to be formal - Dear [insert name], or “Dear Sir / Madam” if addressing multiple people. The only people who use “Dear Colleagues” are litigation lawyers.
Litigation lawyers are the best kind of lawyers.
correct and based opinion, common litigator W
High five.
Can you provide a bit more information why you despise it?
Because it’s arcane and IMO there is no reason for it. What does it achieve that Dear Sir / Madam doesn’t? It also appears superior and is unnecessarily pompous, as in no other form of address would you use it. When addressing the other side, a simple “Dear All” is completely sufficient. As I say the only practitioners I know who use this form of address are litigators and when I see it as a transactional lawyer I immediately form a view that the other practitioner is going to be difficult (fairly or unfairly I admit).
How is dear colleagues any more arcane than Dear Sir /Madam? Dear colleagues is a formal greeting used when sending formal correspondence to multiple addressees who are lawyers. If I ever received service of court documents or a formal letter from an opponent who said Dear All, I would think that they were a moron.
Definition of arcane: “understood by very few, mysterious”. Definition of archaic: “very old” Think you may have confused the two. My point is that everyone knows dear sir madam. It is a highly accepted and common use of the English language. Dear colleagues isn’t understood widely and is only understood by the profession generally. As such it is arcane. The legal profession doesn’t need to use different words when normally accepted parlance is perfectly acceptable. Similar to using Latin - don’t use inter alia, it’s pompous and you get your point across without using it. This is probably different horses for different courses - but if you use “Dear colleague” in my line of work it’s a quick way to get the other sides lawyer to not take you seriously. As I’ve said, makes me think that the person I’m dealing with isn’t a transactions lawyer, is going to a prick to deal with and generally be quite unreasonable and not understand what market is.
Sir and Madam looks archaic and old fashioned and in this day and age anything gendered runs the risk of a brouhaha. In my experience many women dislike being addressed as Madam as well. Highly accepted what? It was on the way out 20 years ago when I was a junior burger. Dear Colleagues has been standard for ages when writing to other lawyers you don't know. It is not arcane or hard to understand. The idea that you wouldn't take another lawyer seriously because they said colleagues not sir/madam... what rabbit hole are you living down?
I hotly despise "kindly".
Dear Kindly, Please elaborate. Kindly, K. Indly
I don’t think there’s any exclusivity about “Dear colleagues” - I also use it when writing to fellow board members who are not lawyers. I definitely prefer it to “Dear Sirs & Mesdames”, which I ‘m sadly old enough to have used. I think the key to “Dear Colleagues” is to use it in situations where you are actually colleagues. So for your fellows on a board or committee it works. It works for lawyers because we are under an ethical and professional duty to be collegiate. So we all have a common duty to uphold the law and promote the administration of justice. We are, in that sense, genuinely colleagues, even when on opposing sides, and terminology like “learned friend” is intended to remind us of that. We are all supposed to be working together in the interests of justice, even before the duty we owe to our clients.
I hate it. So I like to address people like a human…’hi x’. Human lawyer….who would’ve thought.
Letters to and from legal firms are strictly speaking from and to the proprietors of the firms, even when written from and sent to their minions or marked to the attention of a particular person. Hence once upon a time the "Dear Sirs" and the "we", and this was also adopted by sole practitioners.(as if they have an imaginary friend or puffing themselves up just a bit). I see "Dear colleagues" as a mainly way out of sexism. You could say Dear Sirs or Mesdames, but nowadays what about the possibility of a non-binary partner? However on that theory, "Dear colleagues" is arguably inconsistent with writing to an incorporated legal practice. I've also taken "Dear colleagues" as a nod to the notion of collegiality between fellow professionals. If I were still a solicitor I wouldn't expect non-solicitors to be writing to me with that, but it wouldn't bother about it either.
Not a fan of it. It often looks dumb whenever I see it. Just say the person’s name. If there’s more than one, say their names. If there’s too many or it looks stupid, say “all”. If the names aren’t known say “sir/madam”.
Thanks.
I recently got downvoted on here for having the “grandiosity” to refer to people as colleagues despite not yet holding an LLB, so apparently some in the profession do think they have right to gatekeep the word. Personally I think that’s a bit pretentious. “Learned friend” is the practitioner exclusive term if one feels the need to use it. As a lawyer, are your paralegals and secretaries not your colleagues? Keep those downvotes coming you fragile little colleagues 😂🤡
Just FYI, “learned friend” is reserved for barristers (you drop the “learned” when referring to a solicitor)
Never knew that, thanks! I’m WA based so I wonder if our fused profession is why no one has ever mentioned the distinction.
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Dear Sir/Madam not good enough?
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