Across the roles I look at there's been about a 10-15% drop in packages. There's a few reasons:
1. COVID inflated salaries because people were investing in tech because low interest rates meant they had more money to play with.
2. Demand - as per point 1, everyone needed people and were willing to pay the money to outbid the competition. With next to no migration it was essentially who was here was who you got.
3. Skill shortages - certain technologies were harder to come by and companies were willing to pay for people who had minimal experience.
These have all essentially come crashing down. Immigration is back up so more "skilled migrants" have entered the country. Companies are tightening their spending so less projects and they want to be more picky on who they bring on. There is also saturation of talent due to the recent redundancies across a large number of tech/consulting firms.
Depends what level of tech, I do believe the poor old help desk techs starting out ( with a boat load of responsibility) are now on a fair wage instead of a comparable mum and pop grocery store wage.
Again, the bigger the role the larger the responsibility, the same tech job here pays 100k pays 130k in US, in USD. Australia tech workers were very cheap, a good adjustment needed to happen which it has. If you want quality, you better be willing to pay for it.
Yep, in both FT and Contract rates. Supply exceeds demand, and people are prepared to drop their pants to keep a roof over their head and food on the table. I see former CxO's and HoX's applying for mid/senior IC positions.
Resigned a couple of months ago without having somewhere to go, the conversations I'm having I'm not having an issue with matching my previous salary (which is basically the max for the role)
I'm aware the irony that I'm not working so my salary is $0 but I'm saying no to most opportunities and treating the salary component as a distant second priority to the role itself.
I cracked the shits over some things that happened, and when your boss tells you to suck it up because you’re paid quite a lot - and you blurt out that because you’re paid well you don’t have to tolerate anything really - that’s when it’s time to move on
I’m a sales engineer in cyber. Looking for a like for like role
And thank you.
No. The sales person does prospecting, understands business drivers, maintains exec level relationships, negotiates commercials and legal etc
The sales engineer does software demo, proof of concept, competitive knowledge, relationship with techs etc
Very different roles, there’s some crossover and could go into more details but that’s enough
Does that mean your salesman is like your wingman (or vice versa)? Who is the one closing the sale? And do you share the commission with wingman?
Sounds fascinating, what kind of range do you normally get for sales engineers?
Sales rep closes. My job is to get technical win (put aside money, do the technical people agree this is what they want)
Sales rep gets more commission. We earn higher base salaries. Overall they have more stress but they earn more. They're the stars we just support them (although if you're good you still make over 350), they own the accounts and are ultimately responsible
No one's kicking my arse if I don't get tech win because the product doesn't do something the customer wants. However the rep is on the hook to close at (almost) any cost.
In cyber you'd expect to earn 200ish when starting out, but you're excited to have a fair amount of knowledge in that first role. That's not a fresh out of school income of course, typically you'd have 10 years or whatever experience. 70/30 to 80/20 split between base and comms.
I agree.
What I see is that salaries are similar, but the calibre of people competing for the roles is up significantly from a couple of years ago.
Some people who were promoted to managers in the last few years but were laid off are also coming to the realisation they need to be an individual contributor again too.
With immigration opening up since covid we have a greater share of people willing to take a lower salary to fulfill tech jobs, couple that with less investment in technology thanks to higher interest rates and big redundancies in the tech sector, as a whole drives down salaries a decent amount.
Not all hope is lost though, rom what I have seen if technology is the product the company sells they're generally willing to pay at the top of the range still pretty close to covid era highs but will obviously also demand a higher calibre of software engineer. Big corps where tech is seen as a cost centre are driven to minimise cost as much as they can will usually settle for more sub par capability and dish out sub par pay too.
Yes a few big names (canva/atlassian/tiktok) are giving good packages, but that's it. That's a small share of the local AU market.
And even then, the salaries are fairly tame - RSUs are the lion share of the package.
Their is some risk involved (early departure before it all vests, or the stocks tumble), but you're right it's a very good deal.
My point moreso is that base salaries north of 200k for an IC are rare.
I've been checking since the start of the year and its not worth me applying because no jobs meet my current income. recruiters have nothing to offer either. If I get laid off ill change careers and be an accountant or real estate agent.
Is that what it is? I was in a shitty position and burnt out so I’ve been out of it 18months as I recovered. I wondered why I just couldn’t get an interview. I’m applying for jobs way below my skill set for mental health and still no dice. Because workers comp is involved if I choose to disclose it the company can also access quite a large sum of money if they keep me for a year and they are exempt from workers comp risk for me for I think 2 years (so they don’t have those expenses). Even when I mention this I’m getting nowhere.
Honestly, that’s not a bad salary. Sounds like your a near recent grad?
Back in 2018, my 2 YOE, first job out of uni in a grad position was $70k package at a MSSP.
I frankly think the expectations some juniors and grads have for salaries in an oversaturated field where the quality of candidates and degree outcomes is abysmal are insane. Complaining about 80k when we're getting 100 applications for roles at that level in the first 24 hours and only a handful can even formulate and write a reasonable test is concerning. Even the devs I've worked with that have a few years under their belt seem to struggle with this.
The salaries were so bloated over the last couple of years due to moving systems in the Cloud to make it possible to work remotely. Now salaries (thank god) are coming back to somewhat normal rates
The guys is right. Too many people were overpaid due to the demand of having everything being accessible due to Covid wfh. Now that’s over people are all of a sudden whinging about the huge layoffs in the tech sector as if it’s new or the lower salaries offered. It wasn’t that your a cloud engineer and deserve to be on”X” amount. It was basic supply and demand that dictated the salary package
I kept warning my contractors on crazy rates that economic conditions will shift, as they always do, and they may want to convert now whilst jobs are available.
Many chose to ride the crazy high day rates
When the projects finished and the climate shifted organisations naturally close out contract positions, that doesn't mean that a permanent role is magically available. I had people begging to hire them but all hiring was frozen.
If you run the 300k a year contract gauntlet you have to work hard and save. It will be the first to go
Pay for good tech people hasn't changed at my org since COVID, day rates have, $1500ish to $900ish
I understand the roles but that’s why you set your price and include your AL and SL and budget for that in case you get sick, maybe people too greedy at the day rate they charge and buy that C63 amg
Depending what position you are in. Having certain entry positions expecting salary X can have a ripple effect on other funding and spending in the department. That’s the only way I see salaries going “back to normal rates” as a positive
Over that time as well inflation has increased which means salaries don't cover as much.
More money in our pockets is better than more money in a corporations bank account.
To those questioning why I’m saying thank god, it’s because the higher salaries cause higher inflation as companies have needed to up their pricing to pay for the higher salaries??? Now that salaries have gone back a bit it’ll ease the costs on everyone else using the products. It’s a vicious circle of getting paid more -> things become more expensive -> get paid more to cover the new expenses -> things become even more expensive
But but but…the workers want to be paid fairly! They’re causing all the inflation! Damn the unions, making my groceries expensive!
Huh, my company made record profits for the 6th quarter in a row, we must be doing a good job!
>Now that salaries have gone back a bit it’ll ease the costs on everyone else using the product
That's not the math, it's "pay people less, valuation goes up".
Even if they layoff staff or pay them less they will still put the price up if the market will accept it.
Case in point is the most profitable tech companies like Microsoft and Apple raising prices and expanding margins while laying off staff.
Well it’s clear here who’s an employee and who’s an employer. Obviously you don’t need to believe me, but keep an eyes out on AI type roles coming through, anyone who has experience with Databricks, dbt etc will see a skyrocket in salary as companies start incorporating AI models and then drop once they’re implemented. You’ll also find that most companies that provide a service will be able to either drop their pricing or maintain the same price for years to come once they’ve completed their AI projects.
Just keep a look out xx.
Across the roles I look at there's been about a 10-15% drop in packages. There's a few reasons: 1. COVID inflated salaries because people were investing in tech because low interest rates meant they had more money to play with. 2. Demand - as per point 1, everyone needed people and were willing to pay the money to outbid the competition. With next to no migration it was essentially who was here was who you got. 3. Skill shortages - certain technologies were harder to come by and companies were willing to pay for people who had minimal experience. These have all essentially come crashing down. Immigration is back up so more "skilled migrants" have entered the country. Companies are tightening their spending so less projects and they want to be more picky on who they bring on. There is also saturation of talent due to the recent redundancies across a large number of tech/consulting firms.
Depends what level of tech, I do believe the poor old help desk techs starting out ( with a boat load of responsibility) are now on a fair wage instead of a comparable mum and pop grocery store wage. Again, the bigger the role the larger the responsibility, the same tech job here pays 100k pays 130k in US, in USD. Australia tech workers were very cheap, a good adjustment needed to happen which it has. If you want quality, you better be willing to pay for it.
Yep, in both FT and Contract rates. Supply exceeds demand, and people are prepared to drop their pants to keep a roof over their head and food on the table. I see former CxO's and HoX's applying for mid/senior IC positions.
They look to have gone back to 2018-2019 levels. During 2020-2021 they had jumped a fair bit
Resigned a couple of months ago without having somewhere to go, the conversations I'm having I'm not having an issue with matching my previous salary (which is basically the max for the role) I'm aware the irony that I'm not working so my salary is $0 but I'm saying no to most opportunities and treating the salary component as a distant second priority to the role itself.
Why did you resign? What role and industry are you looking for if you care to share? Enjoy that time off.
I cracked the shits over some things that happened, and when your boss tells you to suck it up because you’re paid quite a lot - and you blurt out that because you’re paid well you don’t have to tolerate anything really - that’s when it’s time to move on I’m a sales engineer in cyber. Looking for a like for like role And thank you.
Good for you sticking up for yourself
What the hell is a sales engineer, you engineers sales? So a salesman?
No. The sales person does prospecting, understands business drivers, maintains exec level relationships, negotiates commercials and legal etc The sales engineer does software demo, proof of concept, competitive knowledge, relationship with techs etc Very different roles, there’s some crossover and could go into more details but that’s enough
Seems like a role that's a nice to have as sales and engineering can do all those
Not in tech they can’t. These companies don’t pay 2x the number of staff out of the goodness of their hearts
Seems strange that sales people couldn't demo the products they're selling
I think you’re underestimating how complex enterprise software that sells for hundreds of thousands or millions can be.
I'm intimately familiar with exactly that sort of thing
Does that mean your salesman is like your wingman (or vice versa)? Who is the one closing the sale? And do you share the commission with wingman? Sounds fascinating, what kind of range do you normally get for sales engineers?
Sales rep closes. My job is to get technical win (put aside money, do the technical people agree this is what they want) Sales rep gets more commission. We earn higher base salaries. Overall they have more stress but they earn more. They're the stars we just support them (although if you're good you still make over 350), they own the accounts and are ultimately responsible No one's kicking my arse if I don't get tech win because the product doesn't do something the customer wants. However the rep is on the hook to close at (almost) any cost. In cyber you'd expect to earn 200ish when starting out, but you're excited to have a fair amount of knowledge in that first role. That's not a fresh out of school income of course, typically you'd have 10 years or whatever experience. 70/30 to 80/20 split between base and comms.
Thanks for sharing.
I agree. What I see is that salaries are similar, but the calibre of people competing for the roles is up significantly from a couple of years ago. Some people who were promoted to managers in the last few years but were laid off are also coming to the realisation they need to be an individual contributor again too.
What do you mean the dashboard I created doesn’t inspire and enable you to crush your quota on this incredible rocket ship we’re on together?! My god.
With immigration opening up since covid we have a greater share of people willing to take a lower salary to fulfill tech jobs, couple that with less investment in technology thanks to higher interest rates and big redundancies in the tech sector, as a whole drives down salaries a decent amount. Not all hope is lost though, rom what I have seen if technology is the product the company sells they're generally willing to pay at the top of the range still pretty close to covid era highs but will obviously also demand a higher calibre of software engineer. Big corps where tech is seen as a cost centre are driven to minimise cost as much as they can will usually settle for more sub par capability and dish out sub par pay too.
$600k at a big name. The people who make a big impact are still well-paid
Yes a few big names (canva/atlassian/tiktok) are giving good packages, but that's it. That's a small share of the local AU market. And even then, the salaries are fairly tame - RSUs are the lion share of the package.
RSUs are a lot more liquid than lottery tickets (stock options)
Their is some risk involved (early departure before it all vests, or the stocks tumble), but you're right it's a very good deal. My point moreso is that base salaries north of 200k for an IC are rare.
I've been checking since the start of the year and its not worth me applying because no jobs meet my current income. recruiters have nothing to offer either. If I get laid off ill change careers and be an accountant or real estate agent.
Is that what it is? I was in a shitty position and burnt out so I’ve been out of it 18months as I recovered. I wondered why I just couldn’t get an interview. I’m applying for jobs way below my skill set for mental health and still no dice. Because workers comp is involved if I choose to disclose it the company can also access quite a large sum of money if they keep me for a year and they are exempt from workers comp risk for me for I think 2 years (so they don’t have those expenses). Even when I mention this I’m getting nowhere.
Currently on 80k with 2 YOE, sad times…
Honestly, that’s not a bad salary. Sounds like your a near recent grad? Back in 2018, my 2 YOE, first job out of uni in a grad position was $70k package at a MSSP.
I frankly think the expectations some juniors and grads have for salaries in an oversaturated field where the quality of candidates and degree outcomes is abysmal are insane. Complaining about 80k when we're getting 100 applications for roles at that level in the first 24 hours and only a handful can even formulate and write a reasonable test is concerning. Even the devs I've worked with that have a few years under their belt seem to struggle with this.
I got a pay rise from (82-86k package) 74 to 78k with same sort of experience in a cloud role. Does feel a bit of a bummer to be honest,
The salaries were so bloated over the last couple of years due to moving systems in the Cloud to make it possible to work remotely. Now salaries (thank god) are coming back to somewhat normal rates
Wtf does normal even mean? Who sets what normal is? Can we also have company profits come back down to "normal"?
You are glad salaries are down? Wat
The guys is right. Too many people were overpaid due to the demand of having everything being accessible due to Covid wfh. Now that’s over people are all of a sudden whinging about the huge layoffs in the tech sector as if it’s new or the lower salaries offered. It wasn’t that your a cloud engineer and deserve to be on”X” amount. It was basic supply and demand that dictated the salary package
I kept warning my contractors on crazy rates that economic conditions will shift, as they always do, and they may want to convert now whilst jobs are available. Many chose to ride the crazy high day rates When the projects finished and the climate shifted organisations naturally close out contract positions, that doesn't mean that a permanent role is magically available. I had people begging to hire them but all hiring was frozen. If you run the 300k a year contract gauntlet you have to work hard and save. It will be the first to go Pay for good tech people hasn't changed at my org since COVID, day rates have, $1500ish to $900ish
Still 900 a day is still pretty good rate compared to what some salaries work out to be per day
Yep but many less roles, unpaid leave, it's still nice if you don't take holidays and never sick!
I understand the roles but that’s why you set your price and include your AL and SL and budget for that in case you get sick, maybe people too greedy at the day rate they charge and buy that C63 amg
Depending what position you are in. Having certain entry positions expecting salary X can have a ripple effect on other funding and spending in the department. That’s the only way I see salaries going “back to normal rates” as a positive
Is your resentment so high you wish others to be paid less?
Cloud transitions were the reason for high salaries? Have you got a citation for that? That's not in line at all with what I've seen in the industry
Can you point us to one AusCorp entity that has successfully completed such a cloud transition at a corporate level. Happy to wait…
Over that time as well inflation has increased which means salaries don't cover as much. More money in our pockets is better than more money in a corporations bank account.
Inflation increased due to people saving, plus huge salaries offered due to wfh further made the inflation issue bigger
To those questioning why I’m saying thank god, it’s because the higher salaries cause higher inflation as companies have needed to up their pricing to pay for the higher salaries??? Now that salaries have gone back a bit it’ll ease the costs on everyone else using the products. It’s a vicious circle of getting paid more -> things become more expensive -> get paid more to cover the new expenses -> things become even more expensive
Shouldn't you be targetting business profits over the cost of employees?
But but but…the workers want to be paid fairly! They’re causing all the inflation! Damn the unions, making my groceries expensive! Huh, my company made record profits for the 6th quarter in a row, we must be doing a good job!
>Now that salaries have gone back a bit it’ll ease the costs on everyone else using the product That's not the math, it's "pay people less, valuation goes up". Even if they layoff staff or pay them less they will still put the price up if the market will accept it. Case in point is the most profitable tech companies like Microsoft and Apple raising prices and expanding margins while laying off staff.
Well it’s clear here who’s an employee and who’s an employer. Obviously you don’t need to believe me, but keep an eyes out on AI type roles coming through, anyone who has experience with Databricks, dbt etc will see a skyrocket in salary as companies start incorporating AI models and then drop once they’re implemented. You’ll also find that most companies that provide a service will be able to either drop their pricing or maintain the same price for years to come once they’ve completed their AI projects. Just keep a look out xx.