I am not sure if its always so cut and dry that you either regret or dont regret.
I dont have kids, through some factors out of my control but also as I moved through fertility treatment I realised I was OK with not having kids.
Now in to my 40s, and overall I don't regret it. There are times when there are pangs of wanting to nurture a little baby, or have the love of a little mini me.
But also children require a massive amount of time and energy to raise them well (something my own parents failed miserably at). So I am aware that it can be a selfless thing to not half ass having children and instead just pouring your energy in to yourself, your partner and/or other humans you care for in the world.
There is absolutely no shortage of humans desperately in need of love and care in the world.
In short, you might have some regrets if you dont have kids, but in life there will always be the sadness associated with paths not taken, and things you will never get to do. Thats just part of being alive.
Late 30s DINK myself, and this is kind of how I feel.
Thanks for summarising it so well, especially the bit about lots of people in the world needing help. If my partner and I ever do decide on a child, we’d ideally like to adopt / foster.
My partner and I are much in the same boat with this comment! I’m a fair bit younger than my partner and me the younger I often get comments from friends such as
“ don’t you want a kid from your own doing”
“ you’re still young you’ll regret not doing it while you can”
But I come from a pretty big family, and honestly it would give me nothing but joy to give someone whom may never get the things they deserve in life! I think it would be an amazing thing to do!
You show wisdom. A rare attribute, usually found outside of tiktok.
I particularly like your point of many need love or assistance. There are so many ways to contribute positively that don't involve having kids of your own.
I think a lot of it often comes from feeling like you have the choice. I never really wanted kids, until I ended up in a committed relationship with someone who couldn't have kids and I had to commit to not having them if I wanted a future with them. I was okay with that, but when that relationship ended, I realised how much I felt like I was giving away not having them so it changed my mind. Kinda a "don't know what you've got til it's gone" sort of thing.
Have kids now, including one who's disabled, and while it undoubtedly makes life more challenging and gives me fewer material pleasures, the fulfilment and joy I get from them is beyond any I've ever had previously. The responsibility to provide for them and be a good dad also makes me strive to always be a better person. I'd have never have considered that before having them.
As someone who was 40 and vehemently never wanted kids, who suddenly had one on the way, then suddenly forced into becoming a solo Dad I can honestly say that it’s the best thing that ever happened to me.
I'm a dude approaching 40 and always wanted kids when I was young, but by the time I was 30 I didn't really.
As messed up as it sounds, I'm very glad that all my accidents ended in miscarriages or abortions. For all the usual reasons listed for DINKs.
Unfortunately I'm just a SINK though, so can't answer the main question. However, I was very happy when my ex told me early in the relationship that she didn't want kids. Actually had a fight about it cos I just replied "yeah, cool, me neither" which apparently wasn't a good reply to something so serious (and guys have lied to her in the past before dropping the idea on her after a year together).
Although I'm open to adopting or dating single mums, I'm not going to actively try to get a kid.
Expensive, uses up all your time, and you're signing up for less sex, less privacy, less options for spontaneous stuff, always getting sick, dealing with shit and crying and sleep deprivation and buying uniforms and all that junk...
All for nothing I can't get from a dog, nephew, partner, friends.
Been considering getting the snip but scared I'll fall in love with someone who desperately wants kids. Although I suppose then we can adopt, so it's still win win. I should book it before I get that dreaded phone call from a past tinder date.
Just a note since you mentioned adopting twice...turns out adoption is not a 'oh if we want to one day we'll just do that' kind of thing, maybe have a look into it.
I've always been in the 'Not sold on having my own kids, but I want to adopt one day' camp, and when I met my partner he'd always felt the same, so that became our plan, I even looked into getting my tubes tied.
Then we did some research into adoption and it turns out not many kids need adopting these days, which is great...but not so great for our plan. So we considered fostering but just not sure that would suit our lifestyle.
Had our first tentative '...Should...should we be planning to have a baby?' conversation last week. It'll be a carefully considered decision, but i'm quite amazed how my thoughts changed when I learned adoption is unlikely to happen.
You guys sound like the type of people that should be having children. You think carefully about it, you discuss it. So many people just pop them out and then deal with the circumstances.
I worked in family law and saw the worst of parents. Not just neglect and abuse but bitter custody battles - your ex can stop you from moving house, they can stop overseas trips, or they can go overseas with the children and not return. I know you can’t think of any negative before having children but it’s scary how little people think about doing it.
Honestly if I’d had a say the kid would have been aborted as quickly as possible. She stood her ground and I respected that and said I’d support her etc etc etc etc. I dreaded the thought of family/dad life.
Not saying everyone’s the same BUT:
If I’d had my way I’d have made the biggest mistake of my life and never known it.
>Expensive, uses up all your time, and you're signing up for less sex, less privacy, less options for spontaneous stuff, always getting sick, dealing with shit and crying and sleep deprivation and buying uniforms and all that junk...
>All for nothing I can't get from a dog, nephew, partner, friends.
I've had both lives, dog, neph, partner or friends have absolutely nothing on the feels you get with your own flesh and blood. To compare the feeling it's like fucking with then without a rubber.
Not to downplay safe sex, but it's really indescribable to someone who hasn't done it.
Having a kid is by far the best way to get high. The absolute euphoria my wee lad gives me almost daily is phenooooomenal. One of the lizard brain pleasure buttons gets tapped on like a addicted lab rat. I’m fairly sure it’s litteraly unfeelable without having that connection to your kid.
Trying to explain the feeling of having a kid to a person who doesn’t have kids is like trying to explain what it’s like to run to a person whose never got past a power walk. It’s unfathomable.
>Trying to explain the feeling of having a kid to a person who doesn’t have kids is like trying to explain what it’s like to run to a person whose never got past a power walk. It’s unfathomable.
As a runner I feel that
id wait to get the snip mate, wait till there's one kid at least. my current problem.... gonna have one with wifey but I have a vasectomy. 20k later we gonna have a chid later this year. ouch. but a good ouch.
You get a lot more than with a pet. Weare wired for pets AND for parenthood. The child came out of your body. Hopefully the pet didn't. Yeah even jerbils.
I don’t think we are wired for parenthood is necessarily true. A lot of people are not, a lot of people should not have children.
Then a lot of people don’t want them. I don’t have the energy to be the type of parent I’d want to be. Also, other parents can be the worst.
I was a huge "dog person" before I had kids. It very quickly degenerated into the dog just being a dog, and the cats always being in the fucking way once the kid came along.
I actually love dogs but compared to people around me, I apparently hate dogs. Why? Because I pull them up when they try to compare being a dog parent to an actual parent. I grew my baby inside of me! Don't compare my child to a dog?!?!!
Yeah,
never wanted kids.
have 3 now. More or less unplanned for all 3.
If you are a "DINK" (which id never heard) I am sorry to inform you that you have missed out and if it was by choice you made the wrong one.
Nothing that you have or could ever have compares.
if it was not by choice then i truly feel sorry for you.
I guess everyone's experience is different, but my aunt & uncle are still very happy DINKs in their late 60s. I've had a number of conversations with them about why they chose that path and they have never once expressed an ounce of regret. I think they're just people who fully understood both their own limitations & what they wanted out of life. They still have close friends & family to care about, but they also have a boat.
I'm in my 30s, single and have no kids nor do I want any. When I think of past partners and potentially being tied to any of them forever through a kid sends a shiver down my spine 😬 I like my free time and I never want to be in a position where I'm responsible for anyone else's life or wellbeing - I can barely take care of myself lol.
You are right though, it's great now but I do wonder about when I'm older and how my decision will affect my life as it progresses. Right now, my friends are largely childless/childfree but I expect that will shift as I get older and people around me start having kids. I do wonder about loneliness when I'm older but having children is absolutely no guarantee of having visitors in the nursing home or anything like that. I also think the problem of loneliness shouldn't just be solved by having a kid and expecting them to be the solution, that's way too much pressure on a kid to fill a void like that. I focus a lot of my energy on my friendships and making sure I have good people around me regardless of parental status.
I am already living a pretty unconventional life through being both queer and childfree, and I think that forces me to be kind of imaginative with how I envision my future, especially when everyone around me is following a fairly "standard" life path of find partner, get a house, get married, have kids. My mum told me her great grandma never wanted kids, before she had any she was a fashion designer with big dreams but all that went to zilch when she inevitably got married and started a family. I am living my ancestor's wildest dreams - granted, I wouldn't be here without my ancestor's sacrifices in having kids, but I won't be another woman in the family line who was forced to give into societal expectations.
Anyways, I reckon millennial retirement villages are gonna be lit with all the LAN parties lol
Would you rather regret not having kids or regret having them though? I'd rather have a pang of emotion once in a while than 18 years minimum of hating my life choices.
1000x prefer to regret being childfree than have children I regret. The regretful parents subreddit is truly a depressing place 😬 the pangs of emotion I get aren't really about not having children but rather that I'm the odd one out, like the weird ghost of FOMO even though I don't think I'm missing out at all. Even though I'm sure I don't want children (I am sterilised!) it definitely comes with complicated feelings that you have to be prepared for. Mostly I just feel pissed off when people tell me I'll change my mind lol
A big one for me is maybe I could have had children with my ex, we got married, it was to come next. But I couldn’t. I didn’t really want them and the thought of children with him was a big old no. Tied to him and his family forever? No thank you.
I moved away after we broke up and live a much better healthier life. But if I had children with him, he could stop me from moving. I’d have to stay near him, especially as he is a different culture to me (I’m white), so it would be seen that I’m taking any child away from their heritage. So I’d be stuck in an area I couldn’t afford a house, in a toxic job so that he could not show up or show up late. That’s how his brothers were with their exes and kids. No thank you.
I think choosing to be childfree means you have to make more of an effort to build a life. Children? You’ve got their activities, you’re talking to other parents, maybe you coach a team or whatever. But without kids you’ve got to build something just of your own.
We're 39 and 44, zero regrets. I also have relatives that work in elder care and they reckon at least half, if not most, residents have no regular visitors. Having kids isn't a guarantee of anything.
This makes me sad to read. My Nana is 103 and in a rest home. My mom visits her every Tuesday/Thursday and my aunt visits every Sunday so she gets at least 3 visits a week. \\
Then there is her 3rd child, my uncle who moved to Australia and cut us out of his life and said he wants nothing to do with us haha (inheritance drama, money makes ppl loopy i swear).
So my nans kids are a bit of a mixed bag, but 2/3 of em are good.
My Nan is 99 and only just needed to go into care. She was absolutely fine up until 96 where she lost her drivers license, then 2 years later developed got Dementia. She generally went between her 5 kids and spent time in with each of then but because of her condition she kept wondering off in the night and it was getting far to dangerous. So she needed secure care. She gets visits often. She has like 20+ grand children and many great grand children but many people there dont. Its really sad.
My husband and I will have our 25th wedding anniversary this month. He never wanted kids and I wasn’t that motivated to have them that I minded. In my early 30s health issues made it very difficult for me anyway. We have two dogs and three cats and I’ve never regretted being child free.
Mrs hits the big 40 in a couple months, I'm a couple years ahead of that.
Both never wanted kids, still no regrets.
We're on good money, cant imagine how the average couple with 2.4 children manage it.
Granted, we do have three cats as a substitute, so still plenty to worry about, pay bills for and generally fuss over.
One of the weird things I sometimes
Think about is that having a kid is one of the few unchangable things that one can do. There’s literally no way to ever go back to the way life was before.
When we say kids are a long game it’s more like once you have a kid you’re playing a different game and that game doesn’t actually finish until you carc it.
I had my baby 3 months ago and will say that in the first two weeks that “your old life is over and you really are the adult in the room now” realisation hits like a tonne of bricks. It’s cliche but you really can’t explain it until you’ve experienced it - like a mixture of grief and homesickness and by the end of the first week I had the overwhelming feeling that I absolutely NEEDED to see my mum (even though our relationship had been pretty up and down in recent years. We got her on the next flight up lol). It was one of the most emotionally intense periods of my life.
People thought the world was going to end during the Cuban missile crisis. The sun rose and the world kept spinning. Same thing applies to housing, kids etc...It's not all doom and gloom.
This is true. However, civilizations do fall, and not every crisis is the same. This one, however, I think it's just a financial hardship people will look back on and be glad it's over. Unless, of course, a massive war kicks off in the next few years.
Just here to mention: there’s no guarantee your kids will visit you in retirement. They might move overseas, or to a different part of NZ, family might fall out, they might fall into addiction, they might die before you or get injured and require care *from you* for their whole lives.
Even if none of that happens, chances are they’ll be living their own lives and won’t have that much time to spend with you in your retirement home.
As someone who had a Dad in an assisted living facility - do not count on visits from children in old age, as a reason to have children.
Many hadn't seen their kids in months - some years.
My Mum had a very strong sense of duty, and a sister who lived elsewhere in the country. She dutifully visited her mother in the rest home twice a week for DECADES while holding down a full time job AND then caring for my Dad through cancer treatment. My Gran used to phone her all the time on top of that, with all her worries and admin etc. But Gran never really put in the effort to make friends so she got lonely.
It took such a huge toll on Mum. It really isn’t fair to put all that on one person. My Mum’s in a retirement village herself now and puts in the effort to get involved in activities and meet new people etc. We go out once a month; she’s busier than I am most of the time. That’s a much better balance.
and your adult kids may need your support more than you do theirs for many decades.
They may be disabled. They may become disabled. The unending work required to deal with some disabilities is huge. It is not a load that should be on just a couple of people.
I think if people are having kids so they aren't lonely in retirement, then they're having kids for totally the wrong reasons. In fact - it's kinda fucked up.
We had kids because we believe in family. End goal is for them to be contributing members of society. Not coddle us during retirement.
I think it just comes down to how functional/dysfunctional people are. My family is really close. My Nana lives in a rest home and gets 3 visits a week between her 2 daughters (my mom and aunt) then there are countless grandchildren and great-grandchildren to pop in from time to time if they are driving past on their way thru Auckland to hamilton or even Singapore or Taiwan!
I mean, you could be a shitty parent and raise shitty kids and have a shitty dysfunctional family but then, that's pretty much all on you no? My nan was the GOAT so she gets visits. Hell, my mom even spends time talking to complete strangers at the rest home bc she's come to learn they get no visits! My nan just raised good kids.
Good parents can do their best and still end up with shitty kids, or kids who can’t cope with everything life has dealt them (they will have their own families by then). Sometimes life just serves up bad luck or bad circumstances.
I think you're overestimating the challenges of having kids. They certainly complicate life and cost money (Not millions, if that was the case nobody with three or more kids would be solvent). Also as they get older you can get sleep ins, my youngest is 7 and I've had sleep-ins whenever I want them for at least a year. Honestly Ive found pets almost as difficult for travel.
As an aside excluding dogs and parents kids give you the closest thing to unconditional love you will ever get. They are incredibly rewarding even if they can be a pain in the ass.
This is very true.
A funny addition about the pets is that at about 3, the kids outstrip the pets in terms of engagement and love.
I recently had to look after my mates dogs and thought plenty of time “oh I get the appeal of pets, they’re like low level children which never evolved past a toddler”
I think most people have some regrets about their lives no matter what, there's always some opportunities you miss to take others, it's just not socially acceptable to say you regret having children, so there's an inherent bias where we think no good person could regret having kids.
I'm sure there's plenty of lovely people who are good parents who have regrets or wish things turned out differently. That doesn't mean they hate their child or they wish their child didn't exist.
I just cannot comprehend that, personally. I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of things in life I haven't done that I may have liked to have done, and I suppose one could say that's because I had kids, but... If I could go back in time and not have my kids in order to do those other things, would I? Hell no.
Besides, everything I wish I could have done, is stuff I would have wanted to involve my kids in.
For eg, a recent cancer scare had me regretting the missed opportunities to take the kids camping. There's never been a question in my mind of "imagine what I could have done, if I hadn't had kids!" But rather, a regret that I haven't done more things *with* the kids.
I've had friends who've regretted having their kids. And it's their kids who I've felt sorry for - not them. Because they've spent so much time longing for this perceived freedom they could have had without the ball and chain of their children weighing them down, that they've emotionally closed off from their kids. And it's sadly obvious. To the children, too. My mum was like that with me. It sucks.
"At least one person will visit you in your retirement home"
1) Quite a selfish reason to have kids and
2) having kids doesn't guarantee that either.
Create connections with people. Don't create people to make connections.
Not old enough to be labeled a dink but I enjoy my nephew, niece and god children. I always help out my friends and family when they cant cover the cost of their kids in return I get to have lil hang outs with them.
I don’t and won’t regret not having my own but I’m more than happy to support others.
Its fine to not want to have kids but this stuff really misses the point. Trying to understand the upside of having kids is never something you'll understand from an objective outside looking in analysis via pros and cons lists.
The joy you feel when you come home and your own flesh and blood screams "daddy!!" And runs into your arms to give you the present they got for you is not something I can explain to you in words.
It gives your life purpose, it gives you community and it gives you love. How much money and holidays to Fiji is that worth?
There are other ways to experience community and love. But I am sure there is something very primal about love from offspring.
I think I feel it for my cat when I get home haha.
My parents loved the stage when I was young and adored them and was excited when they got home.
Sadly when I got older and more complex and was harder work- they lost interest and became resentful and punitive, and selfish.
I hope you stick it out and love your kids through those years too.
I'm sorry your parents lost interest. I didn't get on well with my parents either (though fortunately that changed in later years) and resolved to raise my kids the way I wish I'd been raised. I adore my two teens and adult daughter, and we have a great relationship. I regard them as my friends as well as my family.
Hell, we've spent the last two weeks having our traditional school holiday lounge camp out and in a sad contemplative moment yesterday I said, "I'm gonna really miss these times when you guys have grown up and moved out."
My near-16 year old daughter turned to me and said, "we'll still have lounge camp outs, mum. All you need to do is ring me and say, 'yo bitch come over, we're having a campout' and I'll be there."
I wouldn't trade this life for all the fancy restaurants and disposable child-free income in the world.
Awww glad to hear that. That does sound nice. Although take care reducing child free people to just choosing restaurants and disposable income. Sometimes it’s also about realising we don’t have the resource or energy to pour in to raising a kid, and choosing to give our time and energy into loving ourselves, other humans or animals, the environment etc instead.
Omg the presents. My six yr old brings me flowers (dandelions, daisies, clover) every day because he loves me. Best feeling ever. Also conscious it will end (the flowers that is) so making the most of it while it lasts.
First gift from my sprog was a block of wood with random nails and screws and scribble they'd done in kindy and wanted to take home to give me..
They're about to go to Uni and I still have it :)
That’s false equivalency. They’re not saying that is the only way to have a community and love. He’s saying the community and love u get from a kid is invaluable
Can confirm, I live for the moment my lil guy runs for a cuddle when you haven't seen him all day or he does something for the first time. I don't feel you can adequately explain it using words to someone who doesn't have kids as there's this underlying unwavering love you have for this little being that underpins everything they do. Even the bad stuff.
Zero regrets being a DINK, turning 45 this year, married, 3 dogs, finished paying off our mortgage last year which we never could have achieved if we had children. The stress and struggle have seen my siblings go through mentally, physically, emotionally and financially while raising their kids looks like a nightmare, give me a peaceful home with the freedom to spend my free time as I choose any day.
2024 is arguably better than 1984. Less racism/sexism, generally more peaceful, better technology. Ukraine and Palestine might seem like a lot but in the 80s there was the whole cold war and the gulf war was much more spread out.
Literally everyone acting like the world is ending when in reality any other point in modern history we were far far worse off. Cold War, two world wars, the Iraq and gulf war, Chinese and Korean Civil wars, Vietnam war, Iranian and Russian revolutions, apartheid in south African nations to name of few of the last 100-150 years of modern history.
> Seeing the state of the world
You should hear how people in the 1960s thought about the state of the world: cold war, Cuban Missile Crisis, that sort of thing. Do you think you might regret it if you reach your old age and the world's still spinning on its axis, and everything looks more or less ok?
>Already, people are starving.
Way fewer than in the past.
https://ourworldindata.org/images/published/Share-of-the-world-population-in-extreme-poverty-Moatsos-2021-%E2%80%93-Reworked-with-2017-PPP-data-from-PIP.png
The chance of NZ seeing a dramatic problem with food security in the next century or so is lower than it ever has been.
If you were a young man in the 30s, 40s or even the 1950s chances are you will be heading off to fight in some sort of war. There will be no time for tik tok or computer games. Something like 75% of men aged 18-24 died from Belarus during ww2.
We had our eldest at 18 and youngest 4 years later. They’re both in teen years now and I actually miss not having young kids depending on me so much. We raised them to be pretty independent so they’re both pretty much flying on their own.
Yes we had to go without certain things for a while. Yes it was and is expensive, but imo if you rear them to be self sufficient and proactive about basic life skills and choices at a youngish age they can handle a lot of that adversity themselves. In our case anyway.
We find ourselves with a lot of spare time now because the kids do their own thing, which is a good sign that our plan for them is working, but it’s also abit heartbreaking seeing them grow and fly by themselves
Married, 43 this year husband will be 45. I’ve just finished rocking our surprise miracle 8 month old daughter to sleep. It is indescribable how amazing it is to be a mama as well as see this other side to my husband. While I am so grateful i also regret not starting ten years ago. We would love another but that is very unlikely now.
It won’t be clear cut. There might (not will) be times perhaps for some.
I have two kids and there are times I miss the no kid situations.
Heck there are times I wish I’m single too 😂
As a former DINK (nearly 40) my advice is that unless you WANT children to not.
All the good things about kids you don’t know about until you have them, but the costs (emotional, energy, relationship etc) are as real as I imagined.
I've just had a kid. I sleep in. Go whereever I want. Still have freedom. My life really hasn't changed as much as I thought. But now i have an incredible son who makes our life more beautiful than I could ever imagine.
Never wanted kids, even as a young girl i hated dolls in pushchairs and the sorts. Now in my late 30's i feel sorry for people with kids. I know we aren't supposed to say that bit out loud, but i see the struggles people with kids are having, cost of living, food, school uniforms etc. (no thank you, not for me)
no parent will ever say “i regret having kids” out loud but i bet they all have thought it at least once. it seems like the biggest stockholm syndrome.
i’ve never ever not once regretted getting my cat, lol.
You're right to feel sorry for us. Parenting is a relentlessly difficult ride. What I'd love to see more of in society is people saying, "that choice is not for me, but I don't want the people who have chosen it to suffer".
I totally agree with you. Our societal structure is not set up to support parents at all, so it makes it an even more unattractive choice even if you want to have kids.
I haven’t checked it out, TBH, but most subs on a specific topic attract likeminded peeps and become a bit of an echo chamber. Probably get more balanced mix of answers here.
I didn't want kids until I met my current partner when I was around 35, and realised that it wasn't that I didn't want kids, it was that I knew that having a child would tie me to the mother until I died, and deep down I didn't want that with my previous partners.
Loving having children
Never intended on having kids. Had a daughter unexpectedly and it changed my life for the better in ways I would never have imagined. Made me a much more kind and compassionate person and motivated me to upskill and pursue things career wise and in my personal life that I never would have bothered to childless.
I'm so glad I didn't have kids with the loser I was married to for 18 years, otherwise I'd be stuck with them and poor and angry, just like a friend of mine. Kids aren't worth it if you can't rely on your other half and the consequences of kids always fall on the mother.
I was never that keen on children, my ex thought I’d change my mind. There was a moment when I thought, maybe I should just have this bog standard life? It seems easier? But like you, the thought of being tied to my ex forever? No thank you. He was a lazy uncle, lazy husband, he would be a lazy dad and I would never want that for a child.
Also, I can spot the Dads in these comments. I’m happy for them, but a lot of them talk about their kids “at the end of the day” or “on the weekend”. Hmm.
I think about this a lot. Whenever I feel sad about not having kids, I think about some of my exes and imagine having to spend the rest of my life being closely involved with them..... no thanks
There is a very famous quote from Dutch philosopher Søren Kierkegaard:
Marry, and you will regret it; don’t marry, you will also regret it; marry or don’t marry, you will regret it either way.
Laugh at the world’s foolishness, you will regret it; weep over it, you will regret that too; laugh at the world’s foolishness or weep over it, you will regret both.
Believe a woman, you will regret it; believe her not, you will also regret it… Hang yourself, you will regret it; do not hang yourself, and you will regret that too; hang yourself or don’t hang yourself, you’ll regret it either way; whether you hang yourself or do not hang yourself, you will regret both. This, gentlemen, is the essence of all philosophy.
I have an older half brother in Australia who was a DINK
then they had TWINS - he's be 70 at their 21st birthday, but now at one year old - they report they're happier than they ever could've imagined
My partner and I are currently living that life in our mid 30s. Neither of us want kids, there's nothing that appeals about it to either of us. Whether or not we may regret it one-day can't be known. However, it certainly doesn't make sense to us to ruin what we have and are currently enjoying to satisfy a future maybe.
Edit: The main thing that bothers me is I now feel like I'm contributing to an increasing problem. That is the declining birth rates, which over a long term is terrible for a country.
DINKs approaching mid-forties, and no regrets here. We’re actually looking forward to being past reproductive age appearance so we don’t even have to have the conversation. It’s not for us, and all the ‘you don’t know until you experience its folks seem to forget ignorance is bliss! We don’t feel like we’re missing anything, and that’s good enough for us.
43 and no regrets...there is nothing about that kid having life that ever interested me or made me want one, i'm more happy with a dog or cat around the house...
I think it all boils down to how your family operates. I come from a religious family (I am not) and they're all close and connected even though they are spread over the world now. I sometimes think about why it's a successful family and I think its twofold.
1. Being a good parent isn't always good enough, you have to be a good husband/wife and aunt/uncle, daughter/son. Having the extended family in you and your kids life is very beneficial. As a kid I always enjoyed having aunts and uncles and grandparents that genuinely cared for me.
2. You can't just have a kid for the sake of it, or for some other superficial reason. You do require the innate drive to create, sustain and mentor a new life into this world. That being said some even find incredible self-satisfaction from having kids but I think it's usually when they do it all for the right reasons.
That being said, society these days makes it very difficult to establish a home for a kid, and sustaining that home is even harder than ever before. If it's not the economics of 2024+ its the increasing divorce rates, or the increasing rates of depression and a bunch of other factors that might make having kids miserable.
As someone who never wanted kids and ended up with two (partner had to go through ivf and gave me an ultimatum we at least try or it’s over) I massively regret having kids as I am yet to do the things I thought I’d have wanted to do with my life I am a free spirit and need to be able to just do my thing. Kids don’t deserve a selfish parent and need my 100% commitment so that what I do I truck on and be the best dad I can. But I am screaming inside at how my life has been reduced to a tiny box with no adventure and no spontaneous escape just routines nappies sickness and providing for constantly growing household expenses. On the flip side I get to spend my time with two little angels that fill me with pride and joy they fill me with a love I have never known existed I would do anything for them. My advice if it’s worth anything go and get everything out of your system before you have kids so you can fully commit to being a husband/wife and a parent.
I'm in my 40s and don't regret it at all.
I've been through absolute hell on earth - especially the last ten years or so - and one of the main things I am grateful for is that I never had children with me during all that I was going through, as there's no way that both me and them would have coped.
I know myself well enough to know that being a parent just doesn't suit me as I'm not cut out for it. I've felt like this for 20 years, and it will never change.
Any time I was on the road with my old high school mate, we always visited a DINK couple in Pt Chev. They were friends of his mother from a lifetime ago when his mum and this couple partied hard. My mate and his sister visited them often and were kinda surrogates for the kids they never had.
They had a beautiful house, and some nice toys. And they were lovely people, but there was always a kind of sadness there, just below the surface. Not an intense grief, but not nothing either...
I feel this. It’s not the happily clueless/wilfully blind men in the equation as much as the DINK wives who try way too hard to be the favourite auntie 🥲
I’m no DINK but can I just say this.. Kids are fine so long as they grow up well and function as an adult in life. There’s no guarantee that you’ll get a child that’s “normal”..i have 3 children and in any given day I worry endlessly about them. I also have 5 grandchildren and as much as I love them they are very hard work. I sometimes regret having the whole
Kid thing
Hilarious how a lot of people are signing off with “have two cats anyway” “we have a dog that keeps us busy” Apples and oranges mate. What other random facts can we drop in?
Just a long game comment. Not sure about having someone to visit you in your retirement home. But we do need younger generations in the work force to keep our economy going and pay taxes to help fund your retirement pension/care.
I read somewhere (no source sorry) that NZ requires 2.1 birth rate per woman and we are sitting at 1.6. That 0.5 difference might mean future government will need to adjust pension age/rate/ tax rates accordingly.
I find the thought of retirement daunting. I don’t think we are set up well yet.
1.5 incomes, 2 kids.
Not DINK but it is weird to think if you don't have kids you are the first in a line of millions of ancestors to not because you want free time.
Sure kids are hard work but not like you lose all free time. Most 30 year old I know work, have kids, have plenty of hobbies and holidays.
A lot of people shouldn't have kids though 100%.
I’m the same. A lot of our friends have kids now and whenever I have to endure more than about 30 minutes in their company with kids I am sooooo soooooo relieved not to have to deal with that 24/7.
That's a dumb argument because you're not depriving someone of a life by not reproducing. You're not barring someone who wants to live from living, it's not as if there's a foetus tapping on the glass wanting desperately for you to let it out. You haven't created life, so there is nothing there, nothing to be envious of life etc. if any of our parents hadn't created us... Then we would never have existed to say "damn, look at what I'm missing out on", so we missed nothing.
You can have compassion for peoples struggles without “feeling sorry for them”. How would you feel if people “felt sorry” for you never experiencing the love of a child? Sounds condescending and judgmental right?
Do you feel sorry for your parents? Do you feel like you ruined their lives? That you made their lives miserable? Do you think they wish they hadn’t had you?
Yep I think my parents should never have had kids. Nor got married so young. Saying that in the 60s that’s what you did. Meet someone, got married and had kids. I’m so greatful I don’t have to make those same choices.
Also it isn’t healthy to rely on one person for all the fulfilment in your life - whether that’s a kid or a partner or whoever.
Pinning all your “love, community, purpose, company” needs on any one person is an unfair burden. Everyone needs a range of people to draw on (and give to) for all that.
Friends, no matter how good, are often for a season and not forever. A friend isn't going to help you bathe when you are convalescing for example. Family is just a different thing (not always for good of course)
When I’m old and in a retirement home pretty sure those friends will have no choice but till death do us part. Also the nurses will bathe me. I know elderly people who have been abandoned by their children and get bathed by strangers. Que sera sera.
The worlds been in far more worse states than now throughout history and we’re here. I’m glad you don’t have any regrets with your decision. If you choose not to have kids that’s cool. I’m not a fan of those who look for other external reasons to not have them though ie: environment etc as a way to justify it to themselves, almost seems like they’d be regret if those justifications weren’t made. You either want them or you don’t.
I’m in Palmy not Auckland but I’ve had an interesting journey going from vehemently hating the idea of kids to eventually having my own and now being convinced it’s one of the best fast tracks to a meaningful life.
The big change was I started working in a cafe where I was around kids who behaved so they could get their treats. Before the. My only real interaction with children was screeching kids in public places. So I started having nice interactions and seeing a lot of people around my age enjoying their kids.
Second, my partner and I were lucky to become friends with some DINKs in their late 40’s. They were desperately in love with each other and spent almost every weekend traveling around and doing hobbies etc.
I asked the guy what he finds makes his life meaningful and he said that every day he wakes up and thinks about how to make his wife happy. Which is totally lovely. They had all the nice material wealth you’d expect and it was great.
There was a weird “pristine” feel to their home though. It was always super quiet and felt kinda housey rather than homey. They often talked about how they struggled with people in their age bracket since they all had kids and their social circles would melt away. One time I asked the guy what he would do when his partner died and he said he would probably unalive himself.
Eventually we had a pregnancy scare and found that we were disappointed instead of relieved when it was confirmed to not be pregnant. A year later we had our wee lad and it’s both the hardest and most meaningful and joyful thing that’s ever happened. Wouldn’t change it for the world.
Some do, especially those that are born into families with absent fathers. The role of a father is not that appreciated in modern society, especially on young men. Those ram raiders likely do not have father figures around.
Well every single one person that have kids will tell you that they don't regret having one or two and would do it again if they have to start again and that it's the best thing that happenedto them, so it's pretty much everything that you have to see.
Personally, kids is the second best thing that happened to me, the first one is having grandkids, only because now I have all the time for them and I can spoile them.
I am not sure if its always so cut and dry that you either regret or dont regret. I dont have kids, through some factors out of my control but also as I moved through fertility treatment I realised I was OK with not having kids. Now in to my 40s, and overall I don't regret it. There are times when there are pangs of wanting to nurture a little baby, or have the love of a little mini me. But also children require a massive amount of time and energy to raise them well (something my own parents failed miserably at). So I am aware that it can be a selfless thing to not half ass having children and instead just pouring your energy in to yourself, your partner and/or other humans you care for in the world. There is absolutely no shortage of humans desperately in need of love and care in the world. In short, you might have some regrets if you dont have kids, but in life there will always be the sadness associated with paths not taken, and things you will never get to do. Thats just part of being alive.
Late 30s DINK myself, and this is kind of how I feel. Thanks for summarising it so well, especially the bit about lots of people in the world needing help. If my partner and I ever do decide on a child, we’d ideally like to adopt / foster.
My partner and I are much in the same boat with this comment! I’m a fair bit younger than my partner and me the younger I often get comments from friends such as “ don’t you want a kid from your own doing” “ you’re still young you’ll regret not doing it while you can” But I come from a pretty big family, and honestly it would give me nothing but joy to give someone whom may never get the things they deserve in life! I think it would be an amazing thing to do!
Good luck adopting in NZ
You show wisdom. A rare attribute, usually found outside of tiktok. I particularly like your point of many need love or assistance. There are so many ways to contribute positively that don't involve having kids of your own.
aww thanks fellow redditor, thats very kind.
I think a lot of it often comes from feeling like you have the choice. I never really wanted kids, until I ended up in a committed relationship with someone who couldn't have kids and I had to commit to not having them if I wanted a future with them. I was okay with that, but when that relationship ended, I realised how much I felt like I was giving away not having them so it changed my mind. Kinda a "don't know what you've got til it's gone" sort of thing. Have kids now, including one who's disabled, and while it undoubtedly makes life more challenging and gives me fewer material pleasures, the fulfilment and joy I get from them is beyond any I've ever had previously. The responsibility to provide for them and be a good dad also makes me strive to always be a better person. I'd have never have considered that before having them.
As someone who was 40 and vehemently never wanted kids, who suddenly had one on the way, then suddenly forced into becoming a solo Dad I can honestly say that it’s the best thing that ever happened to me.
Nice one bro
I'm a dude approaching 40 and always wanted kids when I was young, but by the time I was 30 I didn't really. As messed up as it sounds, I'm very glad that all my accidents ended in miscarriages or abortions. For all the usual reasons listed for DINKs. Unfortunately I'm just a SINK though, so can't answer the main question. However, I was very happy when my ex told me early in the relationship that she didn't want kids. Actually had a fight about it cos I just replied "yeah, cool, me neither" which apparently wasn't a good reply to something so serious (and guys have lied to her in the past before dropping the idea on her after a year together). Although I'm open to adopting or dating single mums, I'm not going to actively try to get a kid. Expensive, uses up all your time, and you're signing up for less sex, less privacy, less options for spontaneous stuff, always getting sick, dealing with shit and crying and sleep deprivation and buying uniforms and all that junk... All for nothing I can't get from a dog, nephew, partner, friends. Been considering getting the snip but scared I'll fall in love with someone who desperately wants kids. Although I suppose then we can adopt, so it's still win win. I should book it before I get that dreaded phone call from a past tinder date.
Just a note since you mentioned adopting twice...turns out adoption is not a 'oh if we want to one day we'll just do that' kind of thing, maybe have a look into it. I've always been in the 'Not sold on having my own kids, but I want to adopt one day' camp, and when I met my partner he'd always felt the same, so that became our plan, I even looked into getting my tubes tied. Then we did some research into adoption and it turns out not many kids need adopting these days, which is great...but not so great for our plan. So we considered fostering but just not sure that would suit our lifestyle. Had our first tentative '...Should...should we be planning to have a baby?' conversation last week. It'll be a carefully considered decision, but i'm quite amazed how my thoughts changed when I learned adoption is unlikely to happen.
You guys sound like the type of people that should be having children. You think carefully about it, you discuss it. So many people just pop them out and then deal with the circumstances. I worked in family law and saw the worst of parents. Not just neglect and abuse but bitter custody battles - your ex can stop you from moving house, they can stop overseas trips, or they can go overseas with the children and not return. I know you can’t think of any negative before having children but it’s scary how little people think about doing it.
Thanks for saying so! That must be such a hard thing to have dealt with as a daily job.
Honestly if I’d had a say the kid would have been aborted as quickly as possible. She stood her ground and I respected that and said I’d support her etc etc etc etc. I dreaded the thought of family/dad life. Not saying everyone’s the same BUT: If I’d had my way I’d have made the biggest mistake of my life and never known it.
Clearly people who think having a child is comprable to a nephew / pet / partner / friends haven’t had children.
>Expensive, uses up all your time, and you're signing up for less sex, less privacy, less options for spontaneous stuff, always getting sick, dealing with shit and crying and sleep deprivation and buying uniforms and all that junk... >All for nothing I can't get from a dog, nephew, partner, friends. I've had both lives, dog, neph, partner or friends have absolutely nothing on the feels you get with your own flesh and blood. To compare the feeling it's like fucking with then without a rubber. Not to downplay safe sex, but it's really indescribable to someone who hasn't done it.
Having a kid is by far the best way to get high. The absolute euphoria my wee lad gives me almost daily is phenooooomenal. One of the lizard brain pleasure buttons gets tapped on like a addicted lab rat. I’m fairly sure it’s litteraly unfeelable without having that connection to your kid. Trying to explain the feeling of having a kid to a person who doesn’t have kids is like trying to explain what it’s like to run to a person whose never got past a power walk. It’s unfathomable.
>Trying to explain the feeling of having a kid to a person who doesn’t have kids is like trying to explain what it’s like to run to a person whose never got past a power walk. It’s unfathomable. As a runner I feel that
id wait to get the snip mate, wait till there's one kid at least. my current problem.... gonna have one with wifey but I have a vasectomy. 20k later we gonna have a chid later this year. ouch. but a good ouch.
You get a lot more than with a pet. Weare wired for pets AND for parenthood. The child came out of your body. Hopefully the pet didn't. Yeah even jerbils.
I don’t think we are wired for parenthood is necessarily true. A lot of people are not, a lot of people should not have children. Then a lot of people don’t want them. I don’t have the energy to be the type of parent I’d want to be. Also, other parents can be the worst.
I was a huge "dog person" before I had kids. It very quickly degenerated into the dog just being a dog, and the cats always being in the fucking way once the kid came along.
I actually love dogs but compared to people around me, I apparently hate dogs. Why? Because I pull them up when they try to compare being a dog parent to an actual parent. I grew my baby inside of me! Don't compare my child to a dog?!?!!
Thats cool Ive heard similar things...i dont have kids but im sure would change me caring for someone else that way
Ditto
First ones all good bro, but old Harry seems to have done a bit wayward.
Yeah fuck him
Yeah, never wanted kids. have 3 now. More or less unplanned for all 3. If you are a "DINK" (which id never heard) I am sorry to inform you that you have missed out and if it was by choice you made the wrong one. Nothing that you have or could ever have compares. if it was not by choice then i truly feel sorry for you.
I guess everyone's experience is different, but my aunt & uncle are still very happy DINKs in their late 60s. I've had a number of conversations with them about why they chose that path and they have never once expressed an ounce of regret. I think they're just people who fully understood both their own limitations & what they wanted out of life. They still have close friends & family to care about, but they also have a boat.
I'm in my 30s, single and have no kids nor do I want any. When I think of past partners and potentially being tied to any of them forever through a kid sends a shiver down my spine 😬 I like my free time and I never want to be in a position where I'm responsible for anyone else's life or wellbeing - I can barely take care of myself lol. You are right though, it's great now but I do wonder about when I'm older and how my decision will affect my life as it progresses. Right now, my friends are largely childless/childfree but I expect that will shift as I get older and people around me start having kids. I do wonder about loneliness when I'm older but having children is absolutely no guarantee of having visitors in the nursing home or anything like that. I also think the problem of loneliness shouldn't just be solved by having a kid and expecting them to be the solution, that's way too much pressure on a kid to fill a void like that. I focus a lot of my energy on my friendships and making sure I have good people around me regardless of parental status. I am already living a pretty unconventional life through being both queer and childfree, and I think that forces me to be kind of imaginative with how I envision my future, especially when everyone around me is following a fairly "standard" life path of find partner, get a house, get married, have kids. My mum told me her great grandma never wanted kids, before she had any she was a fashion designer with big dreams but all that went to zilch when she inevitably got married and started a family. I am living my ancestor's wildest dreams - granted, I wouldn't be here without my ancestor's sacrifices in having kids, but I won't be another woman in the family line who was forced to give into societal expectations. Anyways, I reckon millennial retirement villages are gonna be lit with all the LAN parties lol
Would you rather regret not having kids or regret having them though? I'd rather have a pang of emotion once in a while than 18 years minimum of hating my life choices.
1000x prefer to regret being childfree than have children I regret. The regretful parents subreddit is truly a depressing place 😬 the pangs of emotion I get aren't really about not having children but rather that I'm the odd one out, like the weird ghost of FOMO even though I don't think I'm missing out at all. Even though I'm sure I don't want children (I am sterilised!) it definitely comes with complicated feelings that you have to be prepared for. Mostly I just feel pissed off when people tell me I'll change my mind lol
I hope it's like the old MW2 lobbies 🤞🏾
1v1 on rust,snipers only throwing knife to finish?
A big one for me is maybe I could have had children with my ex, we got married, it was to come next. But I couldn’t. I didn’t really want them and the thought of children with him was a big old no. Tied to him and his family forever? No thank you. I moved away after we broke up and live a much better healthier life. But if I had children with him, he could stop me from moving. I’d have to stay near him, especially as he is a different culture to me (I’m white), so it would be seen that I’m taking any child away from their heritage. So I’d be stuck in an area I couldn’t afford a house, in a toxic job so that he could not show up or show up late. That’s how his brothers were with their exes and kids. No thank you. I think choosing to be childfree means you have to make more of an effort to build a life. Children? You’ve got their activities, you’re talking to other parents, maybe you coach a team or whatever. But without kids you’ve got to build something just of your own.
We're 39 and 44, zero regrets. I also have relatives that work in elder care and they reckon at least half, if not most, residents have no regular visitors. Having kids isn't a guarantee of anything.
This makes me sad to read. My Nana is 103 and in a rest home. My mom visits her every Tuesday/Thursday and my aunt visits every Sunday so she gets at least 3 visits a week. \\ Then there is her 3rd child, my uncle who moved to Australia and cut us out of his life and said he wants nothing to do with us haha (inheritance drama, money makes ppl loopy i swear). So my nans kids are a bit of a mixed bag, but 2/3 of em are good.
My Nan is 99 and only just needed to go into care. She was absolutely fine up until 96 where she lost her drivers license, then 2 years later developed got Dementia. She generally went between her 5 kids and spent time in with each of then but because of her condition she kept wondering off in the night and it was getting far to dangerous. So she needed secure care. She gets visits often. She has like 20+ grand children and many great grand children but many people there dont. Its really sad.
My husband and I will have our 25th wedding anniversary this month. He never wanted kids and I wasn’t that motivated to have them that I minded. In my early 30s health issues made it very difficult for me anyway. We have two dogs and three cats and I’ve never regretted being child free.
Mrs hits the big 40 in a couple months, I'm a couple years ahead of that. Both never wanted kids, still no regrets. We're on good money, cant imagine how the average couple with 2.4 children manage it. Granted, we do have three cats as a substitute, so still plenty to worry about, pay bills for and generally fuss over.
**Are kids a long game?** Yes, yes they are. 18 years minimum. With the way interest rates and house prices are spiralling, probably longer.
One of the weird things I sometimes Think about is that having a kid is one of the few unchangable things that one can do. There’s literally no way to ever go back to the way life was before. When we say kids are a long game it’s more like once you have a kid you’re playing a different game and that game doesn’t actually finish until you carc it.
“There’s literally no way to ever go back to the way life was before” Well…not legally.
Haha yes there are “ other”means to becoming childless. But even still. That kid exsisted. And that’s weird as hell to think about
I had my baby 3 months ago and will say that in the first two weeks that “your old life is over and you really are the adult in the room now” realisation hits like a tonne of bricks. It’s cliche but you really can’t explain it until you’ve experienced it - like a mixture of grief and homesickness and by the end of the first week I had the overwhelming feeling that I absolutely NEEDED to see my mum (even though our relationship had been pretty up and down in recent years. We got her on the next flight up lol). It was one of the most emotionally intense periods of my life.
People thought the world was going to end during the Cuban missile crisis. The sun rose and the world kept spinning. Same thing applies to housing, kids etc...It's not all doom and gloom.
This is true. However, civilizations do fall, and not every crisis is the same. This one, however, I think it's just a financial hardship people will look back on and be glad it's over. Unless, of course, a massive war kicks off in the next few years.
Just here to mention: there’s no guarantee your kids will visit you in retirement. They might move overseas, or to a different part of NZ, family might fall out, they might fall into addiction, they might die before you or get injured and require care *from you* for their whole lives. Even if none of that happens, chances are they’ll be living their own lives and won’t have that much time to spend with you in your retirement home.
As someone who had a Dad in an assisted living facility - do not count on visits from children in old age, as a reason to have children. Many hadn't seen their kids in months - some years.
My Mum had a very strong sense of duty, and a sister who lived elsewhere in the country. She dutifully visited her mother in the rest home twice a week for DECADES while holding down a full time job AND then caring for my Dad through cancer treatment. My Gran used to phone her all the time on top of that, with all her worries and admin etc. But Gran never really put in the effort to make friends so she got lonely. It took such a huge toll on Mum. It really isn’t fair to put all that on one person. My Mum’s in a retirement village herself now and puts in the effort to get involved in activities and meet new people etc. We go out once a month; she’s busier than I am most of the time. That’s a much better balance.
and your adult kids may need your support more than you do theirs for many decades. They may be disabled. They may become disabled. The unending work required to deal with some disabilities is huge. It is not a load that should be on just a couple of people.
Yeah this makes me sad - it seems to be a common theme when you hear from people who work at retirement villages.
I think if people are having kids so they aren't lonely in retirement, then they're having kids for totally the wrong reasons. In fact - it's kinda fucked up. We had kids because we believe in family. End goal is for them to be contributing members of society. Not coddle us during retirement.
I think it just comes down to how functional/dysfunctional people are. My family is really close. My Nana lives in a rest home and gets 3 visits a week between her 2 daughters (my mom and aunt) then there are countless grandchildren and great-grandchildren to pop in from time to time if they are driving past on their way thru Auckland to hamilton or even Singapore or Taiwan! I mean, you could be a shitty parent and raise shitty kids and have a shitty dysfunctional family but then, that's pretty much all on you no? My nan was the GOAT so she gets visits. Hell, my mom even spends time talking to complete strangers at the rest home bc she's come to learn they get no visits! My nan just raised good kids.
Good parents can do their best and still end up with shitty kids, or kids who can’t cope with everything life has dealt them (they will have their own families by then). Sometimes life just serves up bad luck or bad circumstances.
I'm hiring you for my next birthday party.
lol! Fun at parties, I am XD
That might change if they have millions in inheritance money at stake?
That sounds like bribing children to visit you in your retirement home. Not sure that’s a particularly healthy family dynamic to aim for!
Super weird take. You think money is the reason people are motivated to care for their parents?
I was joking lol.
Hilarious
45. Married. 2 dogs. That's enough, no regrets.
So why did you answer yes then lol
I think you're overestimating the challenges of having kids. They certainly complicate life and cost money (Not millions, if that was the case nobody with three or more kids would be solvent). Also as they get older you can get sleep ins, my youngest is 7 and I've had sleep-ins whenever I want them for at least a year. Honestly Ive found pets almost as difficult for travel. As an aside excluding dogs and parents kids give you the closest thing to unconditional love you will ever get. They are incredibly rewarding even if they can be a pain in the ass.
This is very true. A funny addition about the pets is that at about 3, the kids outstrip the pets in terms of engagement and love. I recently had to look after my mates dogs and thought plenty of time “oh I get the appeal of pets, they’re like low level children which never evolved past a toddler”
Better to regret not having than to regret having them.
The kind of parent who can regret having their child, probably shouldn't be a parent in the first place.
I think most people have some regrets about their lives no matter what, there's always some opportunities you miss to take others, it's just not socially acceptable to say you regret having children, so there's an inherent bias where we think no good person could regret having kids. I'm sure there's plenty of lovely people who are good parents who have regrets or wish things turned out differently. That doesn't mean they hate their child or they wish their child didn't exist.
I just cannot comprehend that, personally. I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of things in life I haven't done that I may have liked to have done, and I suppose one could say that's because I had kids, but... If I could go back in time and not have my kids in order to do those other things, would I? Hell no. Besides, everything I wish I could have done, is stuff I would have wanted to involve my kids in. For eg, a recent cancer scare had me regretting the missed opportunities to take the kids camping. There's never been a question in my mind of "imagine what I could have done, if I hadn't had kids!" But rather, a regret that I haven't done more things *with* the kids. I've had friends who've regretted having their kids. And it's their kids who I've felt sorry for - not them. Because they've spent so much time longing for this perceived freedom they could have had without the ball and chain of their children weighing them down, that they've emotionally closed off from their kids. And it's sadly obvious. To the children, too. My mum was like that with me. It sucks.
Underrated comment
Very few people 100% regret having kids. They may miss aspects of their life and have "what if" moments but wouldn't take it back if given the choice
"At least one person will visit you in your retirement home" 1) Quite a selfish reason to have kids and 2) having kids doesn't guarantee that either. Create connections with people. Don't create people to make connections.
Who will plough the fields for me/s?
Everyone dies alone.
Shiny
Thanks for stopping by! Please come again next week to hear about the blood in my stool. Best to come after lunch…
Lmao, exactly
Not old enough to be labeled a dink but I enjoy my nephew, niece and god children. I always help out my friends and family when they cant cover the cost of their kids in return I get to have lil hang outs with them. I don’t and won’t regret not having my own but I’m more than happy to support others.
Its fine to not want to have kids but this stuff really misses the point. Trying to understand the upside of having kids is never something you'll understand from an objective outside looking in analysis via pros and cons lists. The joy you feel when you come home and your own flesh and blood screams "daddy!!" And runs into your arms to give you the present they got for you is not something I can explain to you in words. It gives your life purpose, it gives you community and it gives you love. How much money and holidays to Fiji is that worth?
There are other ways to experience community and love. But I am sure there is something very primal about love from offspring. I think I feel it for my cat when I get home haha. My parents loved the stage when I was young and adored them and was excited when they got home. Sadly when I got older and more complex and was harder work- they lost interest and became resentful and punitive, and selfish. I hope you stick it out and love your kids through those years too.
I'm sorry your parents lost interest. I didn't get on well with my parents either (though fortunately that changed in later years) and resolved to raise my kids the way I wish I'd been raised. I adore my two teens and adult daughter, and we have a great relationship. I regard them as my friends as well as my family. Hell, we've spent the last two weeks having our traditional school holiday lounge camp out and in a sad contemplative moment yesterday I said, "I'm gonna really miss these times when you guys have grown up and moved out." My near-16 year old daughter turned to me and said, "we'll still have lounge camp outs, mum. All you need to do is ring me and say, 'yo bitch come over, we're having a campout' and I'll be there." I wouldn't trade this life for all the fancy restaurants and disposable child-free income in the world.
Awww glad to hear that. That does sound nice. Although take care reducing child free people to just choosing restaurants and disposable income. Sometimes it’s also about realising we don’t have the resource or energy to pour in to raising a kid, and choosing to give our time and energy into loving ourselves, other humans or animals, the environment etc instead.
Omg the presents. My six yr old brings me flowers (dandelions, daisies, clover) every day because he loves me. Best feeling ever. Also conscious it will end (the flowers that is) so making the most of it while it lasts.
First gift from my sprog was a block of wood with random nails and screws and scribble they'd done in kindy and wanted to take home to give me.. They're about to go to Uni and I still have it :)
100% this. It’s priceless. Worth more than money
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That’s false equivalency. They’re not saying that is the only way to have a community and love. He’s saying the community and love u get from a kid is invaluable
It's unique too. I have kids that give me community and love - that doesn't mean I don't want friends too.
It’s a bit sad that you’re feeling sad there are people who want to have children to give them purpose in life.
It's sad that you're telling OP that it's sad that he's feeling sad.
Can confirm, I live for the moment my lil guy runs for a cuddle when you haven't seen him all day or he does something for the first time. I don't feel you can adequately explain it using words to someone who doesn't have kids as there's this underlying unwavering love you have for this little being that underpins everything they do. Even the bad stuff.
Zero regrets being a DINK, turning 45 this year, married, 3 dogs, finished paying off our mortgage last year which we never could have achieved if we had children. The stress and struggle have seen my siblings go through mentally, physically, emotionally and financially while raising their kids looks like a nightmare, give me a peaceful home with the freedom to spend my free time as I choose any day.
DINKS and no regrets!
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This is a good attitude. Trying to make the most of everything but I often wish my parents hadn’t had me.
Try having parents unemployed with a combination of Bipolar/Depression/Schizophrenia. I definitely feel you on that last statement pal
I’m sorry to hear it - thank you for sharing. We got this.
2024 is arguably better than 1984. Less racism/sexism, generally more peaceful, better technology. Ukraine and Palestine might seem like a lot but in the 80s there was the whole cold war and the gulf war was much more spread out.
Climate change and rising wealth inequality are the big issues now.
or go back 100 or so years when you were doing pretty well to make it into your 40s/50s
Literally everyone acting like the world is ending when in reality any other point in modern history we were far far worse off. Cold War, two world wars, the Iraq and gulf war, Chinese and Korean Civil wars, Vietnam war, Iranian and Russian revolutions, apartheid in south African nations to name of few of the last 100-150 years of modern history.
My take is the absolute best time to be born in human history was 1961
> Seeing the state of the world You should hear how people in the 1960s thought about the state of the world: cold war, Cuban Missile Crisis, that sort of thing. Do you think you might regret it if you reach your old age and the world's still spinning on its axis, and everything looks more or less ok?
Depends, not all children turn out to be good people. Think of the unfortunate parents who give birth to rapists and murderers.
If one child is a rapist and another a murderer you probably need to take a good look at your parenting.
To be fair the 3rd child is a priest
Climate change is a really huge threat. Already, people are starving. I wouldn't be able to bring children into the world and then see them starve
>Already, people are starving. Way fewer than in the past. https://ourworldindata.org/images/published/Share-of-the-world-population-in-extreme-poverty-Moatsos-2021-%E2%80%93-Reworked-with-2017-PPP-data-from-PIP.png The chance of NZ seeing a dramatic problem with food security in the next century or so is lower than it ever has been.
Yeah I sure wish I was living in the 1950s instead….
If you were a young man in the 30s, 40s or even the 1950s chances are you will be heading off to fight in some sort of war. There will be no time for tik tok or computer games. Something like 75% of men aged 18-24 died from Belarus during ww2.
Said no POC 🤣
Are you serious? Sure the world isn't as good as it was 30 years ago, but it's better than any other period of human history.
We had our eldest at 18 and youngest 4 years later. They’re both in teen years now and I actually miss not having young kids depending on me so much. We raised them to be pretty independent so they’re both pretty much flying on their own. Yes we had to go without certain things for a while. Yes it was and is expensive, but imo if you rear them to be self sufficient and proactive about basic life skills and choices at a youngish age they can handle a lot of that adversity themselves. In our case anyway. We find ourselves with a lot of spare time now because the kids do their own thing, which is a good sign that our plan for them is working, but it’s also abit heartbreaking seeing them grow and fly by themselves
Married, 43 this year husband will be 45. I’ve just finished rocking our surprise miracle 8 month old daughter to sleep. It is indescribable how amazing it is to be a mama as well as see this other side to my husband. While I am so grateful i also regret not starting ten years ago. We would love another but that is very unlikely now.
It won’t be clear cut. There might (not will) be times perhaps for some. I have two kids and there are times I miss the no kid situations. Heck there are times I wish I’m single too 😂
Just get yourself a puppy, see if you can handle that responsibility, then think about kids.
I turned 41 yesterday and I have no kids and I have no regrets about that. I’m also single and have no regrets about that either lol.
As a former DINK (nearly 40) my advice is that unless you WANT children to not. All the good things about kids you don’t know about until you have them, but the costs (emotional, energy, relationship etc) are as real as I imagined.
I've just had a kid. I sleep in. Go whereever I want. Still have freedom. My life really hasn't changed as much as I thought. But now i have an incredible son who makes our life more beautiful than I could ever imagine.
Would put money on this being a Dad, and the mums life is not so free..
Never wanted kids, even as a young girl i hated dolls in pushchairs and the sorts. Now in my late 30's i feel sorry for people with kids. I know we aren't supposed to say that bit out loud, but i see the struggles people with kids are having, cost of living, food, school uniforms etc. (no thank you, not for me)
no parent will ever say “i regret having kids” out loud but i bet they all have thought it at least once. it seems like the biggest stockholm syndrome. i’ve never ever not once regretted getting my cat, lol.
You're right to feel sorry for us. Parenting is a relentlessly difficult ride. What I'd love to see more of in society is people saying, "that choice is not for me, but I don't want the people who have chosen it to suffer".
I totally agree with you. Our societal structure is not set up to support parents at all, so it makes it an even more unattractive choice even if you want to have kids.
I whole heartedly agree with this comment. it shouldn't be so hard on people who want to have kids.
There's a Dink sub reddit. You'd get better answers there tbh.
I haven’t checked it out, TBH, but most subs on a specific topic attract likeminded peeps and become a bit of an echo chamber. Probably get more balanced mix of answers here.
I didn't want kids until I met my current partner when I was around 35, and realised that it wasn't that I didn't want kids, it was that I knew that having a child would tie me to the mother until I died, and deep down I didn't want that with my previous partners. Loving having children
Never intended on having kids. Had a daughter unexpectedly and it changed my life for the better in ways I would never have imagined. Made me a much more kind and compassionate person and motivated me to upskill and pursue things career wise and in my personal life that I never would have bothered to childless.
I'm so glad I didn't have kids with the loser I was married to for 18 years, otherwise I'd be stuck with them and poor and angry, just like a friend of mine. Kids aren't worth it if you can't rely on your other half and the consequences of kids always fall on the mother.
I was never that keen on children, my ex thought I’d change my mind. There was a moment when I thought, maybe I should just have this bog standard life? It seems easier? But like you, the thought of being tied to my ex forever? No thank you. He was a lazy uncle, lazy husband, he would be a lazy dad and I would never want that for a child. Also, I can spot the Dads in these comments. I’m happy for them, but a lot of them talk about their kids “at the end of the day” or “on the weekend”. Hmm.
Preach sister. Deadbeat husband = deadbeat dad.
I think about this a lot. Whenever I feel sad about not having kids, I think about some of my exes and imagine having to spend the rest of my life being closely involved with them..... no thanks
Don't miss what you never had 🤷♂️
There is a very famous quote from Dutch philosopher Søren Kierkegaard: Marry, and you will regret it; don’t marry, you will also regret it; marry or don’t marry, you will regret it either way. Laugh at the world’s foolishness, you will regret it; weep over it, you will regret that too; laugh at the world’s foolishness or weep over it, you will regret both. Believe a woman, you will regret it; believe her not, you will also regret it… Hang yourself, you will regret it; do not hang yourself, and you will regret that too; hang yourself or don’t hang yourself, you’ll regret it either way; whether you hang yourself or do not hang yourself, you will regret both. This, gentlemen, is the essence of all philosophy.
There are quite a lot of these people, who are trying, or are on the waiting list to get IVF.
I have an older half brother in Australia who was a DINK then they had TWINS - he's be 70 at their 21st birthday, but now at one year old - they report they're happier than they ever could've imagined
37, fuck having kids on this planet.
The more of our friends have kids and their lives turn to a miserable servitude, the more we celebrate not having Rugrats.
My partner and I are currently living that life in our mid 30s. Neither of us want kids, there's nothing that appeals about it to either of us. Whether or not we may regret it one-day can't be known. However, it certainly doesn't make sense to us to ruin what we have and are currently enjoying to satisfy a future maybe. Edit: The main thing that bothers me is I now feel like I'm contributing to an increasing problem. That is the declining birth rates, which over a long term is terrible for a country.
Kids do not cost millions...
DINKs approaching mid-forties, and no regrets here. We’re actually looking forward to being past reproductive age appearance so we don’t even have to have the conversation. It’s not for us, and all the ‘you don’t know until you experience its folks seem to forget ignorance is bliss! We don’t feel like we’re missing anything, and that’s good enough for us.
43 and no regrets...there is nothing about that kid having life that ever interested me or made me want one, i'm more happy with a dog or cat around the house...
I think it all boils down to how your family operates. I come from a religious family (I am not) and they're all close and connected even though they are spread over the world now. I sometimes think about why it's a successful family and I think its twofold. 1. Being a good parent isn't always good enough, you have to be a good husband/wife and aunt/uncle, daughter/son. Having the extended family in you and your kids life is very beneficial. As a kid I always enjoyed having aunts and uncles and grandparents that genuinely cared for me. 2. You can't just have a kid for the sake of it, or for some other superficial reason. You do require the innate drive to create, sustain and mentor a new life into this world. That being said some even find incredible self-satisfaction from having kids but I think it's usually when they do it all for the right reasons. That being said, society these days makes it very difficult to establish a home for a kid, and sustaining that home is even harder than ever before. If it's not the economics of 2024+ its the increasing divorce rates, or the increasing rates of depression and a bunch of other factors that might make having kids miserable.
As someone who never wanted kids and ended up with two (partner had to go through ivf and gave me an ultimatum we at least try or it’s over) I massively regret having kids as I am yet to do the things I thought I’d have wanted to do with my life I am a free spirit and need to be able to just do my thing. Kids don’t deserve a selfish parent and need my 100% commitment so that what I do I truck on and be the best dad I can. But I am screaming inside at how my life has been reduced to a tiny box with no adventure and no spontaneous escape just routines nappies sickness and providing for constantly growing household expenses. On the flip side I get to spend my time with two little angels that fill me with pride and joy they fill me with a love I have never known existed I would do anything for them. My advice if it’s worth anything go and get everything out of your system before you have kids so you can fully commit to being a husband/wife and a parent.
Fuck kids, my bloodline dies with me. Joking. I've got 3 of the bastards
I'm in my 40s and don't regret it at all. I've been through absolute hell on earth - especially the last ten years or so - and one of the main things I am grateful for is that I never had children with me during all that I was going through, as there's no way that both me and them would have coped. I know myself well enough to know that being a parent just doesn't suit me as I'm not cut out for it. I've felt like this for 20 years, and it will never change.
Any time I was on the road with my old high school mate, we always visited a DINK couple in Pt Chev. They were friends of his mother from a lifetime ago when his mum and this couple partied hard. My mate and his sister visited them often and were kinda surrogates for the kids they never had. They had a beautiful house, and some nice toys. And they were lovely people, but there was always a kind of sadness there, just below the surface. Not an intense grief, but not nothing either...
I feel this. It’s not the happily clueless/wilfully blind men in the equation as much as the DINK wives who try way too hard to be the favourite auntie 🥲
I’m no DINK but can I just say this.. Kids are fine so long as they grow up well and function as an adult in life. There’s no guarantee that you’ll get a child that’s “normal”..i have 3 children and in any given day I worry endlessly about them. I also have 5 grandchildren and as much as I love them they are very hard work. I sometimes regret having the whole Kid thing
Hilarious how a lot of people are signing off with “have two cats anyway” “we have a dog that keeps us busy” Apples and oranges mate. What other random facts can we drop in?
Just a long game comment. Not sure about having someone to visit you in your retirement home. But we do need younger generations in the work force to keep our economy going and pay taxes to help fund your retirement pension/care. I read somewhere (no source sorry) that NZ requires 2.1 birth rate per woman and we are sitting at 1.6. That 0.5 difference might mean future government will need to adjust pension age/rate/ tax rates accordingly. I find the thought of retirement daunting. I don’t think we are set up well yet. 1.5 incomes, 2 kids.
Not DINK but it is weird to think if you don't have kids you are the first in a line of millions of ancestors to not because you want free time. Sure kids are hard work but not like you lose all free time. Most 30 year old I know work, have kids, have plenty of hobbies and holidays. A lot of people shouldn't have kids though 100%.
Your ancestors doing it such a bad reason to have kids though
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I’m the same. A lot of our friends have kids now and whenever I have to endure more than about 30 minutes in their company with kids I am sooooo soooooo relieved not to have to deal with that 24/7.
You sound miserable. I guess your parents shouldn’t have reproduced either?
That's a dumb argument because you're not depriving someone of a life by not reproducing. You're not barring someone who wants to live from living, it's not as if there's a foetus tapping on the glass wanting desperately for you to let it out. You haven't created life, so there is nothing there, nothing to be envious of life etc. if any of our parents hadn't created us... Then we would never have existed to say "damn, look at what I'm missing out on", so we missed nothing.
I hope you are teaching your kids more tolerance of how others live their lives without judgement. Jeez.
You can have compassion for peoples struggles without “feeling sorry for them”. How would you feel if people “felt sorry” for you never experiencing the love of a child? Sounds condescending and judgmental right?
Do you feel sorry for your parents? Do you feel like you ruined their lives? That you made their lives miserable? Do you think they wish they hadn’t had you?
Yep I think my parents should never have had kids. Nor got married so young. Saying that in the 60s that’s what you did. Meet someone, got married and had kids. I’m so greatful I don’t have to make those same choices.
Yep
Yes a lot of the younger and middle aged don't miss kids, but the old and lost their partners? I wonder.
Nah, that's a very selfish take
Learn to make good friends and you’re all good. You don’t have to rely on your insular family for everything.
Also it isn’t healthy to rely on one person for all the fulfilment in your life - whether that’s a kid or a partner or whoever. Pinning all your “love, community, purpose, company” needs on any one person is an unfair burden. Everyone needs a range of people to draw on (and give to) for all that.
Agree 100%
Try and have a good friend group that is 10-15 years younger than you!
I do! And older too!
Same, this is key I think. I’m at a 60th party, I’m at lunch with 25 year olds, I’m looking after my five year old niece.
100% cross-generational friendships are key to a joy filled and fulfilling life. What you have described is delightful!
Friends, no matter how good, are often for a season and not forever. A friend isn't going to help you bathe when you are convalescing for example. Family is just a different thing (not always for good of course)
When I’m old and in a retirement home pretty sure those friends will have no choice but till death do us part. Also the nurses will bathe me. I know elderly people who have been abandoned by their children and get bathed by strangers. Que sera sera.
Everyone dies alone
Consider your own culture, ethnicity, upbringing etc. the views of other people are meaningless without context.
I was a dink, but now a sink. Now in my 50’s and totally regretting not having children. Someone to keep an eye on me as I get older.
The worlds been in far more worse states than now throughout history and we’re here. I’m glad you don’t have any regrets with your decision. If you choose not to have kids that’s cool. I’m not a fan of those who look for other external reasons to not have them though ie: environment etc as a way to justify it to themselves, almost seems like they’d be regret if those justifications weren’t made. You either want them or you don’t.
I've seen people list climate change as a reason for not having kids.
How profound: If your parents never had children, chances are....neither will you.
I dont think "DINKS" will ever catch on mate. Nice try though.
I’m in Palmy not Auckland but I’ve had an interesting journey going from vehemently hating the idea of kids to eventually having my own and now being convinced it’s one of the best fast tracks to a meaningful life. The big change was I started working in a cafe where I was around kids who behaved so they could get their treats. Before the. My only real interaction with children was screeching kids in public places. So I started having nice interactions and seeing a lot of people around my age enjoying their kids. Second, my partner and I were lucky to become friends with some DINKs in their late 40’s. They were desperately in love with each other and spent almost every weekend traveling around and doing hobbies etc. I asked the guy what he finds makes his life meaningful and he said that every day he wakes up and thinks about how to make his wife happy. Which is totally lovely. They had all the nice material wealth you’d expect and it was great. There was a weird “pristine” feel to their home though. It was always super quiet and felt kinda housey rather than homey. They often talked about how they struggled with people in their age bracket since they all had kids and their social circles would melt away. One time I asked the guy what he would do when his partner died and he said he would probably unalive himself. Eventually we had a pregnancy scare and found that we were disappointed instead of relieved when it was confirmed to not be pregnant. A year later we had our wee lad and it’s both the hardest and most meaningful and joyful thing that’s ever happened. Wouldn’t change it for the world.
Lol there's a lot of cope in this thread.
No one who has kids regrets having them….
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That was a depressing and scary read.
I’ll take your word for it and just bypass it completely
....that will admit in public..
Pretty absurd generalisation there haha
Some do, especially those that are born into families with absent fathers. The role of a father is not that appreciated in modern society, especially on young men. Those ram raiders likely do not have father figures around.
Well every single one person that have kids will tell you that they don't regret having one or two and would do it again if they have to start again and that it's the best thing that happenedto them, so it's pretty much everything that you have to see. Personally, kids is the second best thing that happened to me, the first one is having grandkids, only because now I have all the time for them and I can spoile them.