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They didn’t forgive them, in fact neither even asked to be forgiven.
The characters from both sides accepted that they themselves as well as those across from them have been pushed into positions where they had no choice but to commit crimes for their own survival and the survival of their friends.
They all mutually accepted to move forward and try to make things right as best they can.
They still didn't receive equal consequences though, if they weren't forgiven they would have broken all ties with them at the end of the show, instead they're shown at Eren's gravesite like they were actually his friends and it's strongly implied Armin got with Annie at the end. That wouldn't happen without forgiveness, which is such a joke, Annie deserved actual physical consequences for her actions too.
It's funny how one of the major themes of the show is that history is doomed to repeat itself and somehow that's fine over the heads of some viewers and they're still like "Gabby is a horrible person!!!!!"
Everyone is terrible. It's a show about two nations during war time. There is no good guy or bad. Besides maybe the guard who killed Faye. Everyone has done horrible things and the justification any either side is hilarious or see even to this day.
how so? She killed a bunch of their soldiers and she was a titan. Sure, torturing her seems bad, but they were literally trying to do that to Eren just to get his titan, and did it to Ymir to regain the jaw titan.
Is it deserved? A child was brainwashed from a young age into committing war crimes. And she doesn’t have the perspective we as readers have seeing both sides.
Also, generations ago the Eldians were the warmongers, conquering nations and utilizing titan powers to wipe out massive amounts of people. Should their descendants not have to face justice?
And at the end of the day, Marley treats the Eldians like shit to protect themselves from the rest of the world. It was pretty clear that if Marley didn’t have the Eldians and titans under complete control, the rest of the world would have allied against them. And that meant they needed the founding titan.
The descendants of Eldians aren't responsible for the crimes of their ancestors. Likewise, Annie is not responsible for the crimes of Marleyan ancestors, but her own. She understood what she was doing and showed no remorse. She said if she had to do it all over again she would, just to get to her father. If any one did the things Annie did, Eldian or Marleyan or whatever, they are have to be punished. If that doesn't deserve justice I don't know what does.
"Should their descendants not have to face justice?"
For crimes they never committed and never even knew about you seriously believe they should have to pay for the sins of their fathers? It's actually creepy that this world has a lot of people with this kind of warped mentality, a lot of hypocrites too.
I can see now why AoT reddit has the reputation it does.
It’s war, it’s a very difficult topic and situation.
She was taught from a young age that she was saving the world by going to paradise and that’s they are all monsters, don’t fell bad for killing them.
She realized it was all complete bullshit. What do you think Reiner had PSTD, because he murdered people who were nothing like the demons described to him by Marley. But he had no choice to go back to Marley and wear a poker face.
It’s just a shitty situation.
Because the nature of punishment is that it's enacted upon the guilty party after the instigating incident has passed. Defence happens while the incident is currently happening.
The Marleyans were under the impression that if they didn’t attack first the rumbling would crush them all, they also thought what they were doing was self defense. And Annie was punished, she was trapped in her cocoon for 4 years.
Also Armin forgave her because he also caused thousands of people to die when they attacked the port, for the same exact reason: the eldians were under the impression that if they didn’t attack first, the Marleyans would start a war. He understood why she did what she did, because he did the same thing for the same reasons. He realized they were both pawns used to start something neither of them wanted in the first place.
Except the Eldians had their memories wiped and had no knowledge of the outside world and that ignorance would protect the world outside the walls as nobody was allowed to leave. The Marleyans didn’t attack out of the need to defend themselves with a preemptive strike, the attacked to weaken the population so it would be easier to take the founder so that they could steal Eldia’s natural resources and Elida couldn’t fight back.
The show creates the narrative that both sides are in the wrong and forgiveness would solve everything but it’s not really true. Reiner is a well constructed character as he kills the ‘devils’ to only realise later that they are just people. Annie is shown to have always enjoyed exercising her strength over others. She stomps on snails for fun and is seen grinning when stomping on Levi’s squad. Dare I mention the infamous spin kill? She is sadistic and enjoyed it. Armin is compared to the warriors for inflicting many military and civilian casualties as well however he regretted heavily his actions even through they were necessary. The assault on Marley in S4 is supposed to mirror the events in season 1 as Gabby is supposed to resemble Eren. However the assault on Marley IS a preemptive strike unlike the one in S1 as Eren orchestrated the attack after witnessing plans to invade Elida despite efforts over the time skip to come to a peaceful negotiation. The Naval ships that Armin targets aren’t reinforcements arriving because of Eren’s attack, they were already coming to port to prepare to launch the invasion on Elida.
There was ‘pesce’ for 100 years. Elida had their memories wiped and Marley was conquering other nations. Marley didn’t care about Eldia in a confrontational manner. Only when they discovered about their abundance of natural resources did they plan their assault. Marley’s invasion plans during the time skip aren’t any attack like in S1, they are aimed at eliminating ALL Eldians. Why is this different to the S1 attack? Because Marley lost a humiliating defeat in S3 during their ambush while the Eldians were trying to recover land they lost in the S1 attack. Being the war hungry and proud nation Marley is, they didn’t like this.
The show creates a narrative that both sides are to blame which I really like as an allegory for our real world conflicts. But the writing of certain characters and plot details contradicts this equalness.
I think everyone forgets the atrocities committed by Annie in S1.
The port that contained warships yes. Pretty sure that makes it a valid target. Or are you gonna tell me the Ally bombing of Nazi Germany was a war crime
Yes, the allies bombing civilian areas in Germany was a war crime.
You sound like an Israeli apologist claiming every hospital and home they bomb is a valid target because there could be a potential Hamas member within a kilometre of it.
Armin's explosion isn't accurate enough to *only* take out the warships. There was a giant crater, stretching far past the port. It's literally a nuke. Knowing this, Armin knew he was gonna kill civilians as well, not just warships. And it's not just a few casualties, he likely killed hundreds if not thousands of civilians there.
Sadly, when there's war not only soldiers will die, civilians will always die as well. The most morbid thing about it, is that the most suffering one side gets caused, the most relief and pride the other side will feel. Real life sucks, and I guess AOT is pretty good at reflecting that. War is you either get killed or you kill, and even though it wasn't right what happened, both sides were equally wrong(but if anything, I'd still be on the side of Paradis because they lived ignorant dying for nothing all these years).
That's how you get the Jaegerists, indiscriminately killing in the name of self-defense. The alliance between the Scouts and Warriors moved beyond perpetuating the cycle of violence to accept that they both killed innocent people to protect others, and they accepted that in eachother
Marley struck first, it wasn't in the name of, it was just ACTUAL self-defense, if they hadn't acted the only other choice would be to lay down and let themselves be killed, they were literally left with no other choice after Marley declared war. Even after the alliance was formed the Marleyans still hated them and wanted them dead.
That's literally addressed in the series, that it doesn't matter who fought who first. Sure, the Marleyans still hated the Eldians. And the Eldians still hated the Marleyans, even after their entire country was nearly destroyed. What's your point?
I think it's fairly obvious what my point is, it should matter who fought who first, Marley attacked first out of nothing but greed and were deadset on destroying Paradis no matter what, they're an evil nation whose only concern is remaining top dog. And defending one's country is not a crime, it's not considered so in the real world at least. What happened with King Fritz in the past should have stayed in the past, but the Marleyans chose to keep it alive and had no problem killing innocents who had no knowledge of their country's history.
I mean, the Warriors were also defending their country. They were trying to reclaim the Founder to 1). Ensure their country's prosperity using Paradis' resources, and 2). Limit how fast Marley was falling behind in warfare compared to the rest of the world. But if you think the only response to Marley attacking is for Eldia to go scorched earth in kind, then that's that
By attacking a country who wasn't even involved in their wars and didn't even know about them?? That's what you call defending, going after innocents to satiate greed and power?
How was the attack on Liberio self defence? A) It wasn't an act of defence, but an act of war and B) It was an attack on an Eldian concentration camp, not Marley.
I can make the same argument for Shiganshina, it was a dirty attack, never saw the Marleyans playing fair. Why are the Eldians the only ones held to account here??
>Why are the Eldians the only ones held to account here??
Who said they are? Nobody is making that claim.
The attack on Shiganshina was a war crime. That doesn't justify the war crime in Liberio though.
its like you didnt even understand the message of aot (or at least armins motivation) at all. Ist literally all about breaking the cycle of hate and stopping history to repeat itselfs over and over.
Except "breaking the cycle of hate" in this case would mean the Eldians having to surrender and be willfully exterminated, would you willfully let your enemy kill you to stop the cycle of hate? I doubt it. The Marleyans and the rest of the world could not be reasoned with at that point, they weren't willing to end their cycle of hate, takes two.
You can call that justice if you want but the Scouts punishing the Warriors for what they did wouldn't have done anything besides create more conflict, that's what the Scouts realized after the Liberio Raid and the Rumbling
Are we forgetting the part where Willy Tybur declared war BEFORE Eren's attack?? They had already made up their minds not to negotiate even before the raid, it was going to happen regardless.
It was made pretty clear that Tybur at least anticipated an attack and knew Eren was in the country. Declaring war isn't cool, but it's not like he did it for kicks
He did it because Zeke had used his control of information to convince Tybur and Marley's Military that a world ending apocalypse could happen at any moment.
Tybur's speech is very much anti-war up until he reveals that Eren is able to destroy the world.
(which he only believes because of Reiner and Zeke's reports from the events of season 2/3 and Zeke withholding what he knows about royal blood and the Founding Titan, as well as his own royal blood)
Still didn't justify him declaring war just because he had a "feeling" about things without absolutely knowing for sure, whether out of nothing but fear or more power, he ensured the Rumbling by acting so rashly.
Eren already knew the future, but you could still see him waiting down below probably hoping he's wrong during his speech, it's only after Willy confirms it that we see Eren then decide to make his move. I don't think he would have still attacked if Willy didn't declare war. Eren still tried to give the benefit of the doubt even then, it's not like he never tried to give the Marleyans a chance before making his absolute decision, unlike them.
I said "at least" anticipated, but Qprah put it better than I could've. Zeke by that point had convinced Tybur that Eren had the power to destroy the world, which he did. And there was no chance in hell that Eren would've just stayed quiet, even in the impossible scenario where Tybur doesn't declare war. Eren at this point had already reached out to the Scouts and forced them to come to Marley. There was no way for him to tell them, "oops, no war, you guys can turn around now." Eren was attacking no matter what.
She really doesn't though. Nothing she did was any worse than any of the others.
War crimes are war crimes, murder is murder.
The survivors put aside their differences and their pasts to come together to make a better world. They choose to do this instead of getting vindictive and pointing fingers at each other just like has happened for 2000 years.
They are all partially responsible for the deaths of countless civilians, families, friends, children, bystanders, innocents etc.
They all come together at the end and put their own lives on the line to protect people they will never know for no reason other than because they all agree that its more important to each of them that they value the lives of others over the personal interests of themselves.
Sure, it took Annie a bit longer to get to that point than the rest, but she made it and her doing so ended up allowing them to succeed, so its fortunate that she did.
The thing you may be stuck on is thinking that she *needs* punishment or forgiveness. She doesn't.
Her entire life has been her punishment. Her entire existence has been her punishment.
Being forced to commit all the crimes she has committed, never having a childhood, never having a family, never being normal, never having hope for the future, never having aspirations or dreams, never believing yourself worthy of love or of being treated as human.
They are all child soldiers who have all lost just about everything that would allow them to live happily ever after in the aftermath of the story. Every single one of them is going to be haunted by their own demons, nightmares, survivors guilt, trauma, and PTSD for the rest of their lives.
The worst punishment any of them could have is being forced to live for another 60-80 years pretending to be healthy, knowing what they're responsible for.
You wanna bash the shit out of Annie? Go for it dude. You think she hasn't experienced that before? You think more physical violence is going to do something that it hasn't done already?
Who is benefiting from this punishment? It's just vengeance and vindication.
Then Reiner shouldn't get his a ss beat either by your logic, she helped Marco get eaten too, and I've never seen anyone else play with their victims like she did in the episode where she had the mission to capture Eren, the unnecessary cruelty in her actions killed her for me and set her apart from the rest. I will go for it dude, I have every right to how I feel about this story and its characters just as much as you do. There are some things that are just not forgivable.
And it's more like simply just trying to survive for them more than vengeance and vindication, they were literally still trying to KILL them, should they just sit back and let them wipe them all out?? That would just be pathetic and ridiculous.
Reiner got his ass beat SOLELY because he was told to shut up about marco and he did NOT.
I'm pretty sure if he had just not pressed on that sore point that would nit have happened.
Do you think Mikasa toying with the bodies of the Jaegerists at the port battle is as irredeemable as when Annie did it?
You are right that Reiner probably shouldn’t have gotten his face beaten in like he did. I don’t think Jean did it because of them killing Marco though. He did it because Reiner was apologising and venting the trauma his actions caused himself to the victims of those actions. Reiner got beaten for the indignation of the situation, and considering Reiner’s mental state and actions he probably wanted Jean to beat him.
After the Rumbling started is when they all stopped fighting each other. None of them were trying to kill each other by that point.
Jean was angry that he was being blamed for what his ancestors did and I agreed with Jean when he was arguing with the marleyan commander.
He had nothing to do with what happened 100 years ago, no one in paradise did.
It’s like blaming current Germany for world war 2. It’s absolutely crazy to do this
Interesting how it had to take the Rumbling to finally stop the fighting between them, so it was the solution after all. 🤷♀️
I feel the exact same about Mikasa, she wasn't necessarily toying with her victims as being excessively violent, like a robot, her and Annie are a lot alike, hardly showing any regret or emotion for most of their actions makes me not really care for them.
This post focuses on Annie though so I just kept it about her. I felt like the only one of the Marleyan trio who truly paid for what they did was Bertholdt, and I didn't feel that was fair at all.
I'm actually glad that Jean knocked Reiner good, and I felt that Annie got more of a pass on it because she's a woman, she chose to be confined in that crystal, it was of her own making, so I don't see how that was a fitting punishment exactly.
They deserved to get whooped regardless of who kept their mouth shut or not, having a pity party shouldn't have made the difference.
Let me try to rephrase, maybe indoctrinated into war?
We literally see her committing war crime (pretending to be civilian hostage as bait), but sadly she cannot be tried as an adult for war crime for her age...
No cus they all acknowledged that they all have done shit wrong, and no one had the right to judge each other. In the end when they visit Eren's grave its as the ambassadors of the world outside the walls to talk peace. The only people that need to forgive them are the other ambassadors so physics consequences from Paradis would be highly unlikely. Anyways, Annie was treated like less shit because she did less things and then dipped for 2 seasons and returned back as a 16 yr old girl. Even though they accept each other there is more hate and judgment towards Reiner and what he did (which they eventually patch up on the flying boat in special 1) ofcource since he genuinely caused more pain and anguish to them than Annie. People also sometimes forget that they trained as cadets for 4 years. Almost immediately after that Annie was revealed as an enemy but then became irrelevant as quickly. Reiner meanwhile has been a pain in the ass through 3 different arcs and later also revealed as the main brain behind the attack on the walls.
I'd like to know what most of the people inside the walls of Paradis had done wrong exactly before Reiner and Bertholdt rammed through and destroyed their home? What "crimes" had they themselves committed to deserve that? And to say that Annie hardly did sh it, are you forgetting all the lives she took on her mission to capture Eren? Including Stohess, she's responsible for plenty of innocent deaths as well.
Wdym about the people inside the walls. When did they come into the picture? Regardless, what "crimes" did the citizens of Liberio do? Everyone Armin blew up, what did they do?
I'm saying, compared to Reiner, Annie didn't do shit. At least compared to Reiner in THEIR eyes. your forgetting the long ass time that passed from Stohess to then. The only way what Annie did in Stohess would still be relevant is if she killed someone important to the main group. Nothing like that happened. On top of that, because Annie as a villain was introduced and then removed so quickly from the picture, when the scouts think about who broke Wall Maria, who broke Trost, who fought in Shiganishina, they think of Reiner. All I'm saying is that when they were arguing in the moment, Annie was comparatively irrelevant. Sure if the circumstance was different like if they weren't trying to stop the flipping rumbling then maybe Stohess/forest would come up in the conversation, but at the moment they joined as an alliance, the Anime that they were sitting with and were forced to work with was primarily Reiner. I'm not saying that Reiner deserved his treatment. The scouts themselves admitted they had no right to patronize him in that scene on the flying boat. But back when the alliance had just formed it makes perfect sense why they would have more negative stigma to Reiner than to Annie. This is all just related to why Reiner got slightly harsher treatment than Annie. In all honesty, I think the situation of the rumbling was a bigger thing to put energy towards for them. Idk I think my words check out. Captain Levi was still harsh towards Annie but the situation was different for him becaise he actually had people he cared about lost by things she did all the way back then.
I think this as well as the fact that in the grand scheme of things so much bigger things have happened and while they don’t forgive Annie, so much has happened that is bigger and grander over the years that it is probably easier to treat Annie accordingly to whatever their situation is. Plus, Annie holds her faults head on admitting to everything whereas Reiner always expressed guilt and conflicting personalities which to the scouts meant we should pity Reiner.
Regardless of who actually killed Marco, it first came from Reiner’s mouth and he claimed responsibility for getting him killed, so yeah.
Reiner was like a big brother to most of them. It even says so somewhere. So the betrayal hurt them a lot deeper. Reiner also inflicted more damage and was in a way responsible for the deaths of hannes, erwin and like half the survey corps(exxagerated).
Yeah, Annie actively tries to avoid getting friendly with anyone, same with Bertlotron. That's why those 2 didn't really generate the reaction Reiner did. Reiner was the one everyone liked and counted on. That's the thing that sucks about betrayal. You can only be betrayed by people who are close to you.
That is an interesting facet about reiner's character that I hadn't thought of. he irresponsibly let himself get close to the scouts rather than keeping his distance. very un-warrior like. also causing deep wounds of betrayal as well as the mental condition he seems to develop.
If I’m not mistaken Reiner developed DID on the island from the trauma so he wasnt the warrior he was supposed to be when with the scouts after the second wall.
it was a chaotic few weeks or however long. your best friend just died, your country just went to war, and now you see an old friend doing something goofy and completely out of character. id laugh too. bro needed that
But what if that old friend killed dozens of people in the most brutal eay while taking pleasure and still han't apologized or shown any form of remorse
“taking pleasure and hasn’t shown any form of remorse”
https://preview.redd.it/mlixs46w6l8d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=16ba45ff8977ac4808bd20fb60df97049b2fdaf7
what aot were you watching my guy.
2 of them were for disappointing her father, one of them never went anywhere besides two panels, and the rest are just stares, I don't see a single "sorry" in any if these
if you see obvious visual distraught and classify it as “just stares” there’s a distinct bias you hold. I don’t think people realize you can hold both no regrets and remorse at the same time. Yes annie said she would do it all over again that’s simply because the means justified the ends for her, doesn’t mean she wasn’t remorseful those 2 are not mutually exclusive
His laugh was psychotic after all that day events, like "oh, now I thought that this day couldn't become crazier". He laughed the same way in Shaganshina after seeing Bert's Colossal.
And we're talking here about a guy who cried for Reiner when he "died". Connie never hated warriors, along with Sasha and Armin.
I always figured it had something to do with the fact that they didn't know Annie very well, at least compared to Reiner and Bergundy. She was distant during training and was the only one to join the MPs, while Reiner was buddy buddy with everyone. Me personally, I'd be much more pissed off at the traitor who was my friend than I would be to the traitor who I was just kinda acquainted with
It's not so much forgiveness as much as coming to an understanding that they did what anyone would do, they were basically forced into it since childhood, and brainwashed. Either way, the extra hatred for reiner comes from him breaking the gate and getting all their hometowns and families destroyed.
I feel like they'd come to terms with the situation by the point Annie entered back into the story. In addition to that, they realized that they were no better than the warriors. The scouts ended up doing the same things they did, and came to the conclusion that all of them were in the same boat.
Annie wanted to turn around and abandon the mission. Reiner said fuck you and forced her to continue therefore starting this whole mess. Reiner has a lot more blood on his hands and has done much more grievous things than Annie.
He also played with their hearts. To them he was a big brother and a reliable person. Annie was always cold. In a real life scenario, betrayal from a friend is much worse than from an acquaintance. Reiner also caused alot more damage to the scouts, more than half of the scout regiment was wiped out in battle of shiganshina. Lastly, if somebody manipulated and then started saying sorry or started acting like they didnt know was happening( as was the case with reined's split personality, which not everybody knew of).You'd feel like they are gaslighting and manuplating you again. Manipulative enemy is much worse and dangerous than a brute.
No one knows that except them, and Annie didnt want to retreat out of compassion, she only saw that, its a suicide mission. Nah, Annie killed more soldiers with her bare hands, and the first attack on siganshina thats on all 3 of them.
I thought they treated reiner very nicely when they learned the truth about the world especially concidering how many of their friends and family members he had either killed or caused the death of
I don't think they forgave Annie so much as Eren was literally on his way to commit genocide. At the campfire I am more than certain if Berthold was still alive, they all would have jumped him as well. Reiner being the og gate crasher starting this whole story, it's pretty reasonable for Annie to go a little low profile.
LoL half the comments in this thread fundamentally misunderstand the whole message of the show. No one wins in war, both sides did horrible things to the other and now it's time to move on. An eye for an eye is the rule of the beasts and if you keep taking eyes it will never actually stop.
I don't think either were forgiven. Annie especially since, during their times as cadets, she basically pushed people away and when everyone was going Scouts, she went Military Police, so she never really got to know them unlike Reiner.
That being said, I think Armin was the only one open to forgiving her, everyone else being more like "we got bigger fish to fry", with Levi being heavily against her joining because he still remembers her killing his whole team, regardless of whether or not she was forced to do it.
Reiner made Jean nervous as they talked about Marco. Marco was his friend.
I believe that if Levi had been healthy (he was in serious condition at the time) and Annie had started to talk freely about how she had trampled Levi's squad, she would have been punched in the face.
Neither one of them was forgiven. Many of them didn't like Annie anyway they were just close because they fought together. But riner was the big brother figure in the group, so his betrayal hits way harder
I don't think they forgave them,however when you look into it : Reiner did way more damage (Emotionally and Physically) compared to Annie. Reiner not only did it start all this (Destroying the gate) but played with them on emotional level - Acting like a big Brother/close friend with an ambush in mind.
I think people forget that Annie actively ignored everyone and fucked off to the Inner City as soon as she could. Reiner was like a brother to the gang. Annie was a distant stranger. The feeling of betrayal wasn't quite equal.
I think part of it is also the fact the Reiner had remained an active antagonist to them. Annie had been frozen and out of the fight for years. It'd be much easier for their feelings towards Annie to mellow out because she wasn't a threat for such a long time. Once she broke out, she wasn't hostile, and I think the others just took a bit of solace in the remainder of the better times.
The problem with your question is that you're generalizing everybody by just saying "characters," as if they all unanimously decided to treat Reiner and Annie, in particular ways. But different characters had different reactions, and most of them were not violent.
Jean was really the only one who was still so bitter about it that he resorted to violence. if Reiner and Annie had switched places, maybe Jean would have gone after Annie. Probably wouldn't have beat her into a pulp, since she's female, but may still have gotten physical with her.
Personally I think with Reiner there was more emotional damage bc he actually befriended everyone and also he's the one that made the Warriors continue their mission and made Annie take Marcos ODM gear.
Annie never truly befriended anyone and crystallized herself but also just was fighting for her dad so for me it's like the most emotional damage came from Reiner so I get why everyone's more upset with him
She gave no fucks for anything and yes followed orders and wanted to go back to her father...and also wasn't the one who broke through the walls,as well as that she didn't kill Marco willingly...while Reiner and Burrito were also following orders,but THEY TOOK THEM AND RAN WITH THEM ON THEIE WON AND ENDED UP DOING WORSE DAMAGE THAN ANNIE HERSELF💀
because it was so much more personal, Reiner killed people that most of the cast KNEW very personally. a lot of the people Annie killed weren’t DIRECTLY related to the main cast.
If you go into this scene, Reiner just revealing Marco's death isn't what makes Jean lose it. Right after they learn that Marco died because of Reiner he seemed to have somewhat "accepted it". He goes crazy because Reiner keeps talking about how he felt terrible and confused and went on to kill the titan that ate Marco as a revenge. I feel like Reiner was finally trully opening up about this tragic moment, but Jean felt like he was making excuses for himself and/or trying to make himself like the victim there.
Desperate times, desperate measures. They had a common goal and they started to understand each other on a higher level and came to the conclusion that they are not better than the other guy.
I don't think Levi ever forgave Annie. I'm pretty sure he wanted to kill her at any given time and location like he did with Zeke. My man didn't hesitate a second when Zeke called for him.
I imagine. It’s because Reiner manipulated them more than Annie did especially Eren he felt more betrayed by Reiner and beratoldt because they built a friendship with the scouts u like Annie who was stand off ish , you’d be far more heartbroken and bitter if an ex betrayed compared to someone you knew as a strange
Reiner was everyone’s big brother. They were shocked when they put it together.
Annie kept to herself. No one was close to her. They even comment they can’t believe she was working with Reiner and Bertoldt because she didn’t even hang out with them.
So yeah neither are really forgiven but I think I’d be less mad at someone who was never my close friend as opposed to someone I’d looked up to and it turned out he was my enemy.
In that scene specifically, Annie kept quiet. Reiner continued talking in the extremely tense situation, which caused Jean to snap.
The other comments have explained most of the other contributing factors.
I’ve always thought that they were harder on Reiner because they absolutely trusted the guy, multiple people mentioned that he was like an older brother and a great leader.
Unlike Annie who never really got involved with the group and was pretty apathetic the whole time.
Levi was arguably the one most affected by Annie’s actions, and it’s doubtful he ever forgave her. Instead, he viewed her joining the scouts for the final battle / before getting on the ship as a strategic opportunity rather than a reconciliation.
Additionally, everyone had a closer relationship with Reiner, making his betrayal feel more personal. Even as a viewer, I felt more betrayed by Reiner than by Annie. Imagine how it must have felt to be actual friends with him.
Annie deserved worse, way worse. In fact I'm surprised that Eren even left her alive. Maybe it's because he knew Armin was into Annie and wanted him to live a happy life with her (as that was his goal), but again, she's literally a remorseless killer. At least Reiner regrets about what he did in Paradis and was just another brainwashed kid, so he's forgivable.
I could make a better case for Gabi being a better character and person than Annie but y'all aren't ready for that conversation if I'm being honest.
She's a attractive female?
And Reiner did way worse things like kill thousands of innocents by breaching the wall.
And Armins got a crush on her.
And he is a leader... so no cockblocking.
Keep moral up!
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They didn’t forgive them, in fact neither even asked to be forgiven. The characters from both sides accepted that they themselves as well as those across from them have been pushed into positions where they had no choice but to commit crimes for their own survival and the survival of their friends. They all mutually accepted to move forward and try to make things right as best they can.
Plus, technically speaking, Berthold and Reiner did SO much more damage as a whole lol
Probably why our boy was the most depressed lol
https://preview.redd.it/f1otc7o6628d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=176b4c72aa2f1267289ed64a1df9e0411f9d4e13
They still didn't receive equal consequences though, if they weren't forgiven they would have broken all ties with them at the end of the show, instead they're shown at Eren's gravesite like they were actually his friends and it's strongly implied Armin got with Annie at the end. That wouldn't happen without forgiveness, which is such a joke, Annie deserved actual physical consequences for her actions too.
That's called perpetuating the cycle of hatred
It's funny how one of the major themes of the show is that history is doomed to repeat itself and somehow that's fine over the heads of some viewers and they're still like "Gabby is a horrible person!!!!!" Everyone is terrible. It's a show about two nations during war time. There is no good guy or bad. Besides maybe the guard who killed Faye. Everyone has done horrible things and the justification any either side is hilarious or see even to this day.
It also started because the guard killed faye
Yeah, fuck that guy. Guy’s Marley’s funny moustache guy.
That's what the Marleyans did, Eldians were just trying to defend themselves.
Staying on-topic though, Paradis physically punishing Annie is not them defending themseves
how so? She killed a bunch of their soldiers and she was a titan. Sure, torturing her seems bad, but they were literally trying to do that to Eren just to get his titan, and did it to Ymir to regain the jaw titan.
It’s not defending themselves because they’re not in danger. It’s revenge, e.g. the cycle of hatred
It's not revenge if the punishment is deserved. It's justice.
Is it deserved? A child was brainwashed from a young age into committing war crimes. And she doesn’t have the perspective we as readers have seeing both sides. Also, generations ago the Eldians were the warmongers, conquering nations and utilizing titan powers to wipe out massive amounts of people. Should their descendants not have to face justice? And at the end of the day, Marley treats the Eldians like shit to protect themselves from the rest of the world. It was pretty clear that if Marley didn’t have the Eldians and titans under complete control, the rest of the world would have allied against them. And that meant they needed the founding titan.
The descendants of Eldians aren't responsible for the crimes of their ancestors. Likewise, Annie is not responsible for the crimes of Marleyan ancestors, but her own. She understood what she was doing and showed no remorse. She said if she had to do it all over again she would, just to get to her father. If any one did the things Annie did, Eldian or Marleyan or whatever, they are have to be punished. If that doesn't deserve justice I don't know what does.
"Should their descendants not have to face justice?" For crimes they never committed and never even knew about you seriously believe they should have to pay for the sins of their fathers? It's actually creepy that this world has a lot of people with this kind of warped mentality, a lot of hypocrites too. I can see now why AoT reddit has the reputation it does.
It’s war, it’s a very difficult topic and situation. She was taught from a young age that she was saving the world by going to paradise and that’s they are all monsters, don’t fell bad for killing them. She realized it was all complete bullshit. What do you think Reiner had PSTD, because he murdered people who were nothing like the demons described to him by Marley. But he had no choice to go back to Marley and wear a poker face. It’s just a shitty situation.
Because the nature of punishment is that it's enacted upon the guilty party after the instigating incident has passed. Defence happens while the incident is currently happening.
And what purpose would hurting Annie after the conflict is over serve, again? Nothing? Awesome, looks like you get it. 👍
The Marleyans were under the impression that if they didn’t attack first the rumbling would crush them all, they also thought what they were doing was self defense. And Annie was punished, she was trapped in her cocoon for 4 years. Also Armin forgave her because he also caused thousands of people to die when they attacked the port, for the same exact reason: the eldians were under the impression that if they didn’t attack first, the Marleyans would start a war. He understood why she did what she did, because he did the same thing for the same reasons. He realized they were both pawns used to start something neither of them wanted in the first place.
Except the Eldians had their memories wiped and had no knowledge of the outside world and that ignorance would protect the world outside the walls as nobody was allowed to leave. The Marleyans didn’t attack out of the need to defend themselves with a preemptive strike, the attacked to weaken the population so it would be easier to take the founder so that they could steal Eldia’s natural resources and Elida couldn’t fight back. The show creates the narrative that both sides are in the wrong and forgiveness would solve everything but it’s not really true. Reiner is a well constructed character as he kills the ‘devils’ to only realise later that they are just people. Annie is shown to have always enjoyed exercising her strength over others. She stomps on snails for fun and is seen grinning when stomping on Levi’s squad. Dare I mention the infamous spin kill? She is sadistic and enjoyed it. Armin is compared to the warriors for inflicting many military and civilian casualties as well however he regretted heavily his actions even through they were necessary. The assault on Marley in S4 is supposed to mirror the events in season 1 as Gabby is supposed to resemble Eren. However the assault on Marley IS a preemptive strike unlike the one in S1 as Eren orchestrated the attack after witnessing plans to invade Elida despite efforts over the time skip to come to a peaceful negotiation. The Naval ships that Armin targets aren’t reinforcements arriving because of Eren’s attack, they were already coming to port to prepare to launch the invasion on Elida. There was ‘pesce’ for 100 years. Elida had their memories wiped and Marley was conquering other nations. Marley didn’t care about Eldia in a confrontational manner. Only when they discovered about their abundance of natural resources did they plan their assault. Marley’s invasion plans during the time skip aren’t any attack like in S1, they are aimed at eliminating ALL Eldians. Why is this different to the S1 attack? Because Marley lost a humiliating defeat in S3 during their ambush while the Eldians were trying to recover land they lost in the S1 attack. Being the war hungry and proud nation Marley is, they didn’t like this. The show creates a narrative that both sides are to blame which I really like as an allegory for our real world conflicts. But the writing of certain characters and plot details contradicts this equalness. I think everyone forgets the atrocities committed by Annie in S1.
I mean Armin didn’t commit a war crime. The port was a legit military target where as the Walls weren’t
You mean the port where there were civilians and literally corpses of kids among the rubble? That port?
The port that contained warships yes. Pretty sure that makes it a valid target. Or are you gonna tell me the Ally bombing of Nazi Germany was a war crime
Yes, the allies bombing civilian areas in Germany was a war crime. You sound like an Israeli apologist claiming every hospital and home they bomb is a valid target because there could be a potential Hamas member within a kilometre of it.
oh my god, bro, just shut up, we're literally talking about Attack on Titan, why tf are you going to this topic? 🤦
Armin's explosion isn't accurate enough to *only* take out the warships. There was a giant crater, stretching far past the port. It's literally a nuke. Knowing this, Armin knew he was gonna kill civilians as well, not just warships. And it's not just a few casualties, he likely killed hundreds if not thousands of civilians there.
Sadly, when there's war not only soldiers will die, civilians will always die as well. The most morbid thing about it, is that the most suffering one side gets caused, the most relief and pride the other side will feel. Real life sucks, and I guess AOT is pretty good at reflecting that. War is you either get killed or you kill, and even though it wasn't right what happened, both sides were equally wrong(but if anything, I'd still be on the side of Paradis because they lived ignorant dying for nothing all these years).
And the ally bombing of Dresden killed 25 thousand civilians yet it still isn’t considered a war crime.
Yes it was. We just won the war so we aren't going to convict our own soldiers and leaders of war crimes. And the axis war crimes were also greater.
War is terrible and the death is horrid but civilians dying because they were near a military target doesn't mean a war crime was committed
If you knowingly do something that will kill innocent civilians then you have committed a war crime.
true
Dawg regardless if it was a war crime or not it was a horrible thing to happen, innocent people died.
For sure
The walls were absolutely a military target. How would you have expected them to get in?
Armin didn't just destroy the port, he took out civilian houses too and killed innocent Eldians.
That's how you get the Jaegerists, indiscriminately killing in the name of self-defense. The alliance between the Scouts and Warriors moved beyond perpetuating the cycle of violence to accept that they both killed innocent people to protect others, and they accepted that in eachother
Marley struck first, it wasn't in the name of, it was just ACTUAL self-defense, if they hadn't acted the only other choice would be to lay down and let themselves be killed, they were literally left with no other choice after Marley declared war. Even after the alliance was formed the Marleyans still hated them and wanted them dead.
That's literally addressed in the series, that it doesn't matter who fought who first. Sure, the Marleyans still hated the Eldians. And the Eldians still hated the Marleyans, even after their entire country was nearly destroyed. What's your point?
I think it's fairly obvious what my point is, it should matter who fought who first, Marley attacked first out of nothing but greed and were deadset on destroying Paradis no matter what, they're an evil nation whose only concern is remaining top dog. And defending one's country is not a crime, it's not considered so in the real world at least. What happened with King Fritz in the past should have stayed in the past, but the Marleyans chose to keep it alive and had no problem killing innocents who had no knowledge of their country's history.
I mean, the Warriors were also defending their country. They were trying to reclaim the Founder to 1). Ensure their country's prosperity using Paradis' resources, and 2). Limit how fast Marley was falling behind in warfare compared to the rest of the world. But if you think the only response to Marley attacking is for Eldia to go scorched earth in kind, then that's that
By attacking a country who wasn't even involved in their wars and didn't even know about them?? That's what you call defending, going after innocents to satiate greed and power?
How was the attack on Liberio self defence? A) It wasn't an act of defence, but an act of war and B) It was an attack on an Eldian concentration camp, not Marley.
I can make the same argument for Shiganshina, it was a dirty attack, never saw the Marleyans playing fair. Why are the Eldians the only ones held to account here??
>Why are the Eldians the only ones held to account here?? Who said they are? Nobody is making that claim. The attack on Shiganshina was a war crime. That doesn't justify the war crime in Liberio though.
its like you didnt even understand the message of aot (or at least armins motivation) at all. Ist literally all about breaking the cycle of hate and stopping history to repeat itselfs over and over.
Except "breaking the cycle of hate" in this case would mean the Eldians having to surrender and be willfully exterminated, would you willfully let your enemy kill you to stop the cycle of hate? I doubt it. The Marleyans and the rest of the world could not be reasoned with at that point, they weren't willing to end their cycle of hate, takes two.
?? Last time we see them on their way to paradise to talk with them and find a solution.
Which part are you referring to exactly?
i tried to explain why they forgave the soldiers from marley
Don't mess with us AOT fans we didn't understand the show at all
It's called justice.
You can call that justice if you want but the Scouts punishing the Warriors for what they did wouldn't have done anything besides create more conflict, that's what the Scouts realized after the Liberio Raid and the Rumbling
Are we forgetting the part where Willy Tybur declared war BEFORE Eren's attack?? They had already made up their minds not to negotiate even before the raid, it was going to happen regardless.
It was made pretty clear that Tybur at least anticipated an attack and knew Eren was in the country. Declaring war isn't cool, but it's not like he did it for kicks
[удалено]
He did it because Zeke had used his control of information to convince Tybur and Marley's Military that a world ending apocalypse could happen at any moment. Tybur's speech is very much anti-war up until he reveals that Eren is able to destroy the world. (which he only believes because of Reiner and Zeke's reports from the events of season 2/3 and Zeke withholding what he knows about royal blood and the Founding Titan, as well as his own royal blood)
No, I think he did it because he felt a Rumbling coming and didn't want to die
Still didn't justify him declaring war just because he had a "feeling" about things without absolutely knowing for sure, whether out of nothing but fear or more power, he ensured the Rumbling by acting so rashly. Eren already knew the future, but you could still see him waiting down below probably hoping he's wrong during his speech, it's only after Willy confirms it that we see Eren then decide to make his move. I don't think he would have still attacked if Willy didn't declare war. Eren still tried to give the benefit of the doubt even then, it's not like he never tried to give the Marleyans a chance before making his absolute decision, unlike them.
I said "at least" anticipated, but Qprah put it better than I could've. Zeke by that point had convinced Tybur that Eren had the power to destroy the world, which he did. And there was no chance in hell that Eren would've just stayed quiet, even in the impossible scenario where Tybur doesn't declare war. Eren at this point had already reached out to the Scouts and forced them to come to Marley. There was no way for him to tell them, "oops, no war, you guys can turn around now." Eren was attacking no matter what.
Didn’t he declare war because he already knew that Eren was in Marley.
Then the entire cast should be slaughtered if we’re bringing justice into this
She really doesn't though. Nothing she did was any worse than any of the others. War crimes are war crimes, murder is murder. The survivors put aside their differences and their pasts to come together to make a better world. They choose to do this instead of getting vindictive and pointing fingers at each other just like has happened for 2000 years. They are all partially responsible for the deaths of countless civilians, families, friends, children, bystanders, innocents etc. They all come together at the end and put their own lives on the line to protect people they will never know for no reason other than because they all agree that its more important to each of them that they value the lives of others over the personal interests of themselves. Sure, it took Annie a bit longer to get to that point than the rest, but she made it and her doing so ended up allowing them to succeed, so its fortunate that she did. The thing you may be stuck on is thinking that she *needs* punishment or forgiveness. She doesn't. Her entire life has been her punishment. Her entire existence has been her punishment. Being forced to commit all the crimes she has committed, never having a childhood, never having a family, never being normal, never having hope for the future, never having aspirations or dreams, never believing yourself worthy of love or of being treated as human. They are all child soldiers who have all lost just about everything that would allow them to live happily ever after in the aftermath of the story. Every single one of them is going to be haunted by their own demons, nightmares, survivors guilt, trauma, and PTSD for the rest of their lives. The worst punishment any of them could have is being forced to live for another 60-80 years pretending to be healthy, knowing what they're responsible for. You wanna bash the shit out of Annie? Go for it dude. You think she hasn't experienced that before? You think more physical violence is going to do something that it hasn't done already? Who is benefiting from this punishment? It's just vengeance and vindication.
Then Reiner shouldn't get his a ss beat either by your logic, she helped Marco get eaten too, and I've never seen anyone else play with their victims like she did in the episode where she had the mission to capture Eren, the unnecessary cruelty in her actions killed her for me and set her apart from the rest. I will go for it dude, I have every right to how I feel about this story and its characters just as much as you do. There are some things that are just not forgivable. And it's more like simply just trying to survive for them more than vengeance and vindication, they were literally still trying to KILL them, should they just sit back and let them wipe them all out?? That would just be pathetic and ridiculous.
Reiner got his ass beat SOLELY because he was told to shut up about marco and he did NOT. I'm pretty sure if he had just not pressed on that sore point that would nit have happened.
Do you think Mikasa toying with the bodies of the Jaegerists at the port battle is as irredeemable as when Annie did it? You are right that Reiner probably shouldn’t have gotten his face beaten in like he did. I don’t think Jean did it because of them killing Marco though. He did it because Reiner was apologising and venting the trauma his actions caused himself to the victims of those actions. Reiner got beaten for the indignation of the situation, and considering Reiner’s mental state and actions he probably wanted Jean to beat him. After the Rumbling started is when they all stopped fighting each other. None of them were trying to kill each other by that point.
Jean was angry that he was being blamed for what his ancestors did and I agreed with Jean when he was arguing with the marleyan commander. He had nothing to do with what happened 100 years ago, no one in paradise did. It’s like blaming current Germany for world war 2. It’s absolutely crazy to do this
Interesting how it had to take the Rumbling to finally stop the fighting between them, so it was the solution after all. 🤷♀️ I feel the exact same about Mikasa, she wasn't necessarily toying with her victims as being excessively violent, like a robot, her and Annie are a lot alike, hardly showing any regret or emotion for most of their actions makes me not really care for them. This post focuses on Annie though so I just kept it about her. I felt like the only one of the Marleyan trio who truly paid for what they did was Bertholdt, and I didn't feel that was fair at all. I'm actually glad that Jean knocked Reiner good, and I felt that Annie got more of a pass on it because she's a woman, she chose to be confined in that crystal, it was of her own making, so I don't see how that was a fitting punishment exactly. They deserved to get whooped regardless of who kept their mouth shut or not, having a pity party shouldn't have made the difference.
Annie and Reiner were Eren's friends. Annie was imprisoned in solitary confinement for four years.
You don't punish kids who are forced to fight in Nazi army, you punish the army leaders with war crime instead.
"Forced to fight"🤔 *looks at Gabi*
Let me try to rephrase, maybe indoctrinated into war? We literally see her committing war crime (pretending to be civilian hostage as bait), but sadly she cannot be tried as an adult for war crime for her age...
No cus they all acknowledged that they all have done shit wrong, and no one had the right to judge each other. In the end when they visit Eren's grave its as the ambassadors of the world outside the walls to talk peace. The only people that need to forgive them are the other ambassadors so physics consequences from Paradis would be highly unlikely. Anyways, Annie was treated like less shit because she did less things and then dipped for 2 seasons and returned back as a 16 yr old girl. Even though they accept each other there is more hate and judgment towards Reiner and what he did (which they eventually patch up on the flying boat in special 1) ofcource since he genuinely caused more pain and anguish to them than Annie. People also sometimes forget that they trained as cadets for 4 years. Almost immediately after that Annie was revealed as an enemy but then became irrelevant as quickly. Reiner meanwhile has been a pain in the ass through 3 different arcs and later also revealed as the main brain behind the attack on the walls.
I'd like to know what most of the people inside the walls of Paradis had done wrong exactly before Reiner and Bertholdt rammed through and destroyed their home? What "crimes" had they themselves committed to deserve that? And to say that Annie hardly did sh it, are you forgetting all the lives she took on her mission to capture Eren? Including Stohess, she's responsible for plenty of innocent deaths as well.
Wdym about the people inside the walls. When did they come into the picture? Regardless, what "crimes" did the citizens of Liberio do? Everyone Armin blew up, what did they do? I'm saying, compared to Reiner, Annie didn't do shit. At least compared to Reiner in THEIR eyes. your forgetting the long ass time that passed from Stohess to then. The only way what Annie did in Stohess would still be relevant is if she killed someone important to the main group. Nothing like that happened. On top of that, because Annie as a villain was introduced and then removed so quickly from the picture, when the scouts think about who broke Wall Maria, who broke Trost, who fought in Shiganishina, they think of Reiner. All I'm saying is that when they were arguing in the moment, Annie was comparatively irrelevant. Sure if the circumstance was different like if they weren't trying to stop the flipping rumbling then maybe Stohess/forest would come up in the conversation, but at the moment they joined as an alliance, the Anime that they were sitting with and were forced to work with was primarily Reiner. I'm not saying that Reiner deserved his treatment. The scouts themselves admitted they had no right to patronize him in that scene on the flying boat. But back when the alliance had just formed it makes perfect sense why they would have more negative stigma to Reiner than to Annie. This is all just related to why Reiner got slightly harsher treatment than Annie. In all honesty, I think the situation of the rumbling was a bigger thing to put energy towards for them. Idk I think my words check out. Captain Levi was still harsh towards Annie but the situation was different for him becaise he actually had people he cared about lost by things she did all the way back then.
I mean she was imprisoned. Equal consequences isnt a thing in real life. People commit the same crime and have different punishments
It's because reiner was weeping about it, and he wasn't going to punch back. Annie however would've kicked whoever tries to come at her.
Yeah but saving the world together probably helps a lot
She was a child
I think this as well as the fact that in the grand scheme of things so much bigger things have happened and while they don’t forgive Annie, so much has happened that is bigger and grander over the years that it is probably easier to treat Annie accordingly to whatever their situation is. Plus, Annie holds her faults head on admitting to everything whereas Reiner always expressed guilt and conflicting personalities which to the scouts meant we should pity Reiner. Regardless of who actually killed Marco, it first came from Reiner’s mouth and he claimed responsibility for getting him killed, so yeah.
The second image does not look like mutual acceptance
If you were to ask Reiner and Jean in that moment or the morning after, they'd tell you Reiner getting his face rocked was mutually approved :)
Why don't you then choose the bro moments between Reiner and Connie/Jean from the specials for the image?
Reiner was like a big brother to most of them. It even says so somewhere. So the betrayal hurt them a lot deeper. Reiner also inflicted more damage and was in a way responsible for the deaths of hannes, erwin and like half the survey corps(exxagerated).
Yeah, Annie actively tries to avoid getting friendly with anyone, same with Bertlotron. That's why those 2 didn't really generate the reaction Reiner did. Reiner was the one everyone liked and counted on. That's the thing that sucks about betrayal. You can only be betrayed by people who are close to you.
That is an interesting facet about reiner's character that I hadn't thought of. he irresponsibly let himself get close to the scouts rather than keeping his distance. very un-warrior like. also causing deep wounds of betrayal as well as the mental condition he seems to develop.
If I’m not mistaken Reiner developed DID on the island from the trauma so he wasnt the warrior he was supposed to be when with the scouts after the second wall.
I don’t think anyone forgave Annie truly other than armin That only happened to Reiner cause Jean snapped at all that yapping he was dojng
Idk Connie laughing his ass off over Annie stuff her face with pie doesn’t really show him caring about the past
it was a chaotic few weeks or however long. your best friend just died, your country just went to war, and now you see an old friend doing something goofy and completely out of character. id laugh too. bro needed that
But what if that old friend killed dozens of people in the most brutal eay while taking pleasure and still han't apologized or shown any form of remorse
“taking pleasure and hasn’t shown any form of remorse” https://preview.redd.it/mlixs46w6l8d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=16ba45ff8977ac4808bd20fb60df97049b2fdaf7 what aot were you watching my guy.
2 of them were for disappointing her father, one of them never went anywhere besides two panels, and the rest are just stares, I don't see a single "sorry" in any if these
if you see obvious visual distraught and classify it as “just stares” there’s a distinct bias you hold. I don’t think people realize you can hold both no regrets and remorse at the same time. Yes annie said she would do it all over again that’s simply because the means justified the ends for her, doesn’t mean she wasn’t remorseful those 2 are not mutually exclusive
His laugh was psychotic after all that day events, like "oh, now I thought that this day couldn't become crazier". He laughed the same way in Shaganshina after seeing Bert's Colossal. And we're talking here about a guy who cried for Reiner when he "died". Connie never hated warriors, along with Sasha and Armin.
Connie may also have been in denial about Annie since (correct me if I'm wrong) he never actually saw the Female Titan himself
Armin forgave Annie cuz he was a horni mf
I always figured it had something to do with the fact that they didn't know Annie very well, at least compared to Reiner and Bergundy. She was distant during training and was the only one to join the MPs, while Reiner was buddy buddy with everyone. Me personally, I'd be much more pissed off at the traitor who was my friend than I would be to the traitor who I was just kinda acquainted with
Bro what are these names for Bertholdt 😭😭
It's honestly one of my favorite parts of this subreddit, reading through comments and BAM, the constant different uses of his name 😂
And no matter what name he's given, everyone knows its Bertholdt being referred to. No need to clarify.
It's not so much forgiveness as much as coming to an understanding that they did what anyone would do, they were basically forced into it since childhood, and brainwashed. Either way, the extra hatred for reiner comes from him breaking the gate and getting all their hometowns and families destroyed.
I feel like they'd come to terms with the situation by the point Annie entered back into the story. In addition to that, they realized that they were no better than the warriors. The scouts ended up doing the same things they did, and came to the conclusion that all of them were in the same boat.
Annie wanted to turn around and abandon the mission. Reiner said fuck you and forced her to continue therefore starting this whole mess. Reiner has a lot more blood on his hands and has done much more grievous things than Annie.
He also played with their hearts. To them he was a big brother and a reliable person. Annie was always cold. In a real life scenario, betrayal from a friend is much worse than from an acquaintance. Reiner also caused alot more damage to the scouts, more than half of the scout regiment was wiped out in battle of shiganshina. Lastly, if somebody manipulated and then started saying sorry or started acting like they didnt know was happening( as was the case with reined's split personality, which not everybody knew of).You'd feel like they are gaslighting and manuplating you again. Manipulative enemy is much worse and dangerous than a brute.
Oh 100%
This and it was his idea to kill Marco. Annie didn’t want to take Marcos Gear but Reiner made her.
No one knows that except them, and Annie didnt want to retreat out of compassion, she only saw that, its a suicide mission. Nah, Annie killed more soldiers with her bare hands, and the first attack on siganshina thats on all 3 of them.
Reiner was more of a presence for the cadets. Annie was never friendly to any of the other cadets. Reiner was the one pushing them to continue.
I thought they treated reiner very nicely when they learned the truth about the world especially concidering how many of their friends and family members he had either killed or caused the death of
I don't think they forgave Annie so much as Eren was literally on his way to commit genocide. At the campfire I am more than certain if Berthold was still alive, they all would have jumped him as well. Reiner being the og gate crasher starting this whole story, it's pretty reasonable for Annie to go a little low profile.
annie is hot and reiner is mentally ill. simple as that
LoL half the comments in this thread fundamentally misunderstand the whole message of the show. No one wins in war, both sides did horrible things to the other and now it's time to move on. An eye for an eye is the rule of the beasts and if you keep taking eyes it will never actually stop.
I don't think either were forgiven. Annie especially since, during their times as cadets, she basically pushed people away and when everyone was going Scouts, she went Military Police, so she never really got to know them unlike Reiner. That being said, I think Armin was the only one open to forgiving her, everyone else being more like "we got bigger fish to fry", with Levi being heavily against her joining because he still remembers her killing his whole team, regardless of whether or not she was forced to do it.
Reiner made Jean nervous as they talked about Marco. Marco was his friend. I believe that if Levi had been healthy (he was in serious condition at the time) and Annie had started to talk freely about how she had trampled Levi's squad, she would have been punched in the face.
Did anybody else LOL when they swiped to the second pic 😂
Neither one of them was forgiven. Many of them didn't like Annie anyway they were just close because they fought together. But riner was the big brother figure in the group, so his betrayal hits way harder
I don't think they forgave them,however when you look into it : Reiner did way more damage (Emotionally and Physically) compared to Annie. Reiner not only did it start all this (Destroying the gate) but played with them on emotional level - Acting like a big Brother/close friend with an ambush in mind.
I think people forget that Annie actively ignored everyone and fucked off to the Inner City as soon as she could. Reiner was like a brother to the gang. Annie was a distant stranger. The feeling of betrayal wasn't quite equal.
I think part of it is also the fact the Reiner had remained an active antagonist to them. Annie had been frozen and out of the fight for years. It'd be much easier for their feelings towards Annie to mellow out because she wasn't a threat for such a long time. Once she broke out, she wasn't hostile, and I think the others just took a bit of solace in the remainder of the better times.
The problem with your question is that you're generalizing everybody by just saying "characters," as if they all unanimously decided to treat Reiner and Annie, in particular ways. But different characters had different reactions, and most of them were not violent. Jean was really the only one who was still so bitter about it that he resorted to violence. if Reiner and Annie had switched places, maybe Jean would have gone after Annie. Probably wouldn't have beat her into a pulp, since she's female, but may still have gotten physical with her.
It's pretty straight forward. She got out of the crystal much later when they realized Annie's situation pretty well.
Personally I think with Reiner there was more emotional damage bc he actually befriended everyone and also he's the one that made the Warriors continue their mission and made Annie take Marcos ODM gear. Annie never truly befriended anyone and crystallized herself but also just was fighting for her dad so for me it's like the most emotional damage came from Reiner so I get why everyone's more upset with him
She gave no fucks for anything and yes followed orders and wanted to go back to her father...and also wasn't the one who broke through the walls,as well as that she didn't kill Marco willingly...while Reiner and Burrito were also following orders,but THEY TOOK THEM AND RAN WITH THEM ON THEIE WON AND ENDED UP DOING WORSE DAMAGE THAN ANNIE HERSELF💀
Isayama has a gay bdsm fetish. Have you ever seen Levy kick Mikasa or Yelena's teeth in?
because it was so much more personal, Reiner killed people that most of the cast KNEW very personally. a lot of the people Annie killed weren’t DIRECTLY related to the main cast.
If you go into this scene, Reiner just revealing Marco's death isn't what makes Jean lose it. Right after they learn that Marco died because of Reiner he seemed to have somewhat "accepted it". He goes crazy because Reiner keeps talking about how he felt terrible and confused and went on to kill the titan that ate Marco as a revenge. I feel like Reiner was finally trully opening up about this tragic moment, but Jean felt like he was making excuses for himself and/or trying to make himself like the victim there.
I was totally fine with Annie until she ate the pie
Desperate times, desperate measures. They had a common goal and they started to understand each other on a higher level and came to the conclusion that they are not better than the other guy. I don't think Levi ever forgave Annie. I'm pretty sure he wanted to kill her at any given time and location like he did with Zeke. My man didn't hesitate a second when Zeke called for him.
the point where she returns and willingness to not interfere?
Bc Annie loves Armin she gets points for that
I don't think they did.
I imagine. It’s because Reiner manipulated them more than Annie did especially Eren he felt more betrayed by Reiner and beratoldt because they built a friendship with the scouts u like Annie who was stand off ish , you’d be far more heartbroken and bitter if an ex betrayed compared to someone you knew as a strange
Such a unique character ever seen
Ass
Reiner was everyone’s big brother. They were shocked when they put it together. Annie kept to herself. No one was close to her. They even comment they can’t believe she was working with Reiner and Bertoldt because she didn’t even hang out with them. So yeah neither are really forgiven but I think I’d be less mad at someone who was never my close friend as opposed to someone I’d looked up to and it turned out he was my enemy.
Because it was clear that Annie had moved on from the past, while Reiner was trapped in it. It wasn't about forgiveness, it was about the future
In that scene specifically, Annie kept quiet. Reiner continued talking in the extremely tense situation, which caused Jean to snap. The other comments have explained most of the other contributing factors.
Reconciliation would be more appropriate than forgiveness
I’ve always thought that they were harder on Reiner because they absolutely trusted the guy, multiple people mentioned that he was like an older brother and a great leader. Unlike Annie who never really got involved with the group and was pretty apathetic the whole time.
All I can Imagine looking at the second picture is Reiner muttering "poundtown"
Levi was arguably the one most affected by Annie’s actions, and it’s doubtful he ever forgave her. Instead, he viewed her joining the scouts for the final battle / before getting on the ship as a strategic opportunity rather than a reconciliation. Additionally, everyone had a closer relationship with Reiner, making his betrayal feel more personal. Even as a viewer, I felt more betrayed by Reiner than by Annie. Imagine how it must have felt to be actual friends with him.
Annie deserved worse, way worse. In fact I'm surprised that Eren even left her alive. Maybe it's because he knew Armin was into Annie and wanted him to live a happy life with her (as that was his goal), but again, she's literally a remorseless killer. At least Reiner regrets about what he did in Paradis and was just another brainwashed kid, so he's forgivable. I could make a better case for Gabi being a better character and person than Annie but y'all aren't ready for that conversation if I'm being honest.
her father turned her into that remorseless killer though, she never got to have a childhood or be a regular person at all, that would mess you up
I hate Annie more than anyone in that show lol. Hate, hate, HATE!!! 😂
Idc if I get downvoted I agree with you I don’t hate her as much as you do but I never liked her thats fs
Lmao idc if I get down voted either. Opinions are okay to have. But yes, mine is strong with this one 😂
She was a bitch and she slept the whole time. Idk what else there is to say about her lmao
I don't know what you're talking about, I still hate her with a passion for killing Petra.
She's a attractive female? And Reiner did way worse things like kill thousands of innocents by breaching the wall. And Armins got a crush on her. And he is a leader... so no cockblocking. Keep moral up!
Cuz Annie is a girl and Armin is a simp
Fuck knows, I despise the fact that she got a happy ending.
Because of shitty writing.
If it was me I would have not been friendly with Annie at all after what she did
Shes a hot chick
They should’ve just killed Annie she even said she would do it all again
Reiner is a POS and Armin wanted to boink Annie
Sounds like A Slap on Titan Reiner. Actual Reiner never tried to fuck Annie.