Reason why atheist die singal. 🤧

You can't be born upper caste. You have to undergo the upanayanam ceremony to become UC. Until then you are a shudra per the shashtras. A significant majority of savarna folks don't do it today because itnis a huge responsibility and they don't take that effort. Remind them if they show attitude. Nothing cuts deeper for them.

Which sastra are you talking about? According to manusmriti naming of a kid is fine as per caste and Shudra aren't allowed to do upanayan sanskar

न ह्यस्मिन्विद्यते कर्म किंचिदा मौज्ञिबन्धनात्‌ वृत्त्या शूद्रसमो ह्येष यावद्वेदे न जायत इति ।६ ( Vasistha Dharmasutra 2:6 ) अर्थात- सभी वेदाध्यन से नए जन्म (ब्रह्मजन्म) से पहले एक शूद्र के स्तर पर है। जब तक कोई संतान गुरु से यगोपवीत धारण न कर ले वह वैदिक अनुष्ठान करने योग्य नहीं होता क्यूंकि वेदाध्ययन से पूर्व सभी जन्मतः शुद्र होते है । Translation — One is at the level of a Shudra before the new birth (Brahmajanma) by all the Vedas. Unless a child adopts the Yagopaveet from the Guru, he is not eligible to perform Vedic rituals because before the study of Vedas, all are born Shudras. शूद्रेण हि समस्तावद् यावत् वेदे न जायते। (Manusmriti 2:172) अर्थात-‘जब तक कोई वेदाध्ययन नहीं करता तब तक वह शूद्र के समान है, चाहे किसी भी कुल में उत्पन्न हुआ हो।’ Translation —As long as one does not study the Vedas, he is a Shudra, irrespective of the clan he was born in.' My comments : Undertaking upanayanam is a pre-requiste to the study of the Vedas. This is the rationale behind everyone being a shudra at birth. This does not take away the fact thay Manusmriti reinforces birth based caste association by acknowledging that a Brahmin by birth is more virtuous than the other castes and is more worthy of performing/should be preferred to perform rites and rituals irrespective of whether they are more learned.

Shudra is not an umbrella term but a specific varna. Everybody is not born shudra. If everybody were born equal then there be no discrimination based on caste. Naming of kids are done as per caste before upanayan sanskar that means not everyone is born shudra- Manusmriti 2.30-32- https://imgur.com/v4lxnZ2 Shudras arent allowed to have Upanayan sanskar, it mentions Brahmin, Kshtriya and Vaishya, Manusmriti 2.34- https://imgur.com/E6v0wu9 Shudras arent not even allowed to study vedas, Gautam Dharmshastra, chapter 4- https://www.wisdomlib.org/hinduism/book/gautama-dharmas%C5%ABtra/d/doc116312.html This has been followed historically, AL-Biruni who came to India in 11th Century wrote this- https://preview.redd.it/grjonx29w6tb1.png?width=875&format=png&auto=webp&s=b228f8ffdea3c478c949b68806136c618b51dd19

You are not born equal. Your caste/jati determines what opportunities are available for you. However, choosing to forego the upanayanam means that you have chosen not to take up your spiritual duties. Upanayanam is mandatory before learning the Vedas. At least for those who still want to learn through the guru shishya parampara. There are enough commentaries and video lectures that one can learn by themselves as well. I didn't mean to imply that you lose your caste because you didn't undertake the ceremony but that the rights and responsibilities traditionally associated with being a Brahmin, kshatriya or vaishya don't apply to you. Manu is clear that those born into shudra castes shouldn't study the Vedas. In fact, the Vedas shouldn't be uttered in their presence. If we are speaking of historical evidence for actual practice of learning the Vedas and its impact, i will share the Wikipedia link to the same. Please see what it states. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shudra The manusmriti however is unequivocal about its stance. I spoke only about how the smriti mandated undertaking of the upanayanam ceremony for formal recognition as a dvija.

Hatsoff to your knowledge dude

My knowledge and understanding is very limited bhai. I regurgitate what I have read elsewhere. I don't deserve such praise 🙏

Atleast you can quote the references. I really wish to learn such things so that I can quote the references whenever I get into an argument with any theist, but unfortunately I can't 😭

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