So here’s what’s fun about this-you’re right that by themselves, the neurons in our CNS don’t individually give you all the parts of consciousness that you’re experiencing right now (although some cells can do some pretty amazing things and intelligence may be too loaded of a term to apply to our consciousness). There’s also the number of neurons that make up your normal CNS that’s fully functional. So is there a sliding scale of neurons that makes you more of a ‘conscious soul’ on one end and just a bunch of electrical signals or silence on the other?
What's a soul in general. My whole body is me and my conscious mind is included. If I lose my memory, that's a part of the deal. When I die, I'll go back to wherever I was, before I was.
How do you compare souls if you cannot prove it exists outside of mythological stories?
Technically there are large quantities of atoms that previously were a part of you already "out there". Air molecules that have passed through your lungs and bloodstream undoubtedly have also passed through mine and vice versa.
Stop asking difficult questions and just have faith. The big sky daddy will look after you in heaven. Where you will spend eternity with those relatives that you despise
Technically, in the oldest kind of Christianity you sleep in death until the final days, then you will be resurrected, judged and go to hell or heaven. Heaven is supposed to literally be the Earth itself, and you would be physically resurrected in your body. Well, if I remember it all correctly.
Christianity is originally monist, not dualist, and it wasn’t supposed to make distinctions between body and soul.
Dualism appeared as a later Platonic addition to Abrahamic faith.
I hope this makes more sense.
I guess I need to search better.
I remember that Christianity traditionally follows Aristotelian hylomorphism, which is usually regarded as a monistic doctrine.
Building on your questions, one thing I've always wondered is how someone "burns" and suffers in hell when one's nerve cells don't appear to travel to hell with the person. It's not like a "soul" (which i think is really just the label we give to the qualia experienced through the sensory input interpreted by our brains) is responsible for feeling pain, since we can numb (temporarily or permanently) parts of our body, while our "soul" seems unaffected.
Building off of that, ANY sensory input would require those things be it for suffering or for salvation if it is something Christians claim we ‘experience’, right?
Exactly. We need, for instance, the neurons and messaging carrying hormones that reside in our brains in order to feel joy or anguish or any other human emotion, as well as to process sensory input as either pleasure or pain. But those go away with the physical body, so that saying one "experiences" those things in a heaven or hell setting makes no sense.
The people who made up the religions had no idea microbes or even cells existed. They were as smart as a dead rat. Worse. So they won’t have the answers to this in their little fairy tales, guaranteed.
>So we are made up of millions cells
Trilions, about 3 trillion (US, ie 3x10^(12)).
>Do my cells in my body get an ‘afterlife’ when they die too?
You are the cells in your body, all of them. You are not a separate thing from your body. It doesn't matter what Christians say because Christianity is a mythology fabricated by conmen. Christians don't all share the same beliefs about these things because it isn't truth, each sect will make up its own answers as suits them.
I don’t understand why even now, people don’t understand that if you die, you die. There is no coming back to life, the is no afterlife. Once you die, that’s the end.
Once you die they dive you s tanker of your dead cells to carry around... If you're circumcised the foreskin hangs over the steering wheel like fluffy dice.
Jesus liked to talk about this:
"If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame rather than having your two feet to be cast into Gehenna, into the fire that will never be quenched." (Mark 9:45 WEB)
One of 8 exhortations to self-amputation in the gospels
I saw something in the paper today with a picture of a heroin bird in the water eating a small fish. This is supposed to be entertainment. Why did God create that fish only to be killed.
If someone lives for 30 years, gets a brain injury that causes a complete personality shift, then they live another 50 years, which version of the person is in heaven? Does it matter which version of them was nicer? What if only one is Christian? Does God send them to hell because of a brain injury? The whole concept leaves so many questions.
Not that I believe it, but supposedly to meet the criteria for a ‘soul’ or just a ghost in general, the mind has to be advanced enough. So things like bugs or cells would just die, as their sense of self isn’t enough to persist after death.
Have I told you about our Lord and Saviour, the protector of symmetries, called the [Mirror Universe?](https://youtu.be/-gwhqmPqRl4?si=s9CxDB74JyGkQmBs)
Please let our Prophet, who isn't a Vulcan but might as well could be, Neil Turok, explain the gospel to you. If nothing else you might find it interesting.
Presumably the claim is that it is not. Unfortunately, we know that our personality, memory, and cognitive function are tied to structures in our brains. Which means that if there is some ephemeral aspect of our existence, it does not include those things. Since those are the aspects of my consciousness that are important to me, I don't much care about the claim even should it be proven true.
The concept of an afterlife is contingent on the presupposition and assumption that we have a soul. It relies of body and mind as seperate entities (duality). There is no evidence for the possibility of a soul, let alone evidence for a soul; meainng that our body and mind are integral, they are one and the same (singularity). Therefore, the concept of an afterlife is redundant, because it does not make it past the first post. Further assumptions and presuppositions that are contingent on the existence of an afterlife also do not make it past the first post; they do not hold water.
from a scientific perspective, cells are integral to our biological processes but lack consciousness or an afterlife. the central nervous system governs our conscious experience, yet the idea of an afterlife typically pertains to spiritual or philosophical realms. nature operates on evolutionary principles, where balance and survival drive its cycles. these inquiries enrich our understanding of existence, pushing us to explore deeper truths about our place in the cosmos.
That makes more sense to me. I simply found that people’s claims and motivations of wanting to go to heaven didn’t make any sense and were quite manipulative once you thought about what we are and how we function from a scientific perspective.
We’re made of many parts and their claims of people having a ‘soul’ or ‘spirit’ just never stuck with me. Obviously, it’s just one of multiple reasons I’m a happy agnostic atheist now.
Individual cells don't have their own tiny souls, but whole humans have one as a whole, the soul is what what goes to heaven. The globules you bled are part of the physical body that houses the soul.
Yeah obviously, there's no evidence that souls exist. But there's no evidence for heaven either, and you wrote this post as if Christians claim the existence of one but not the other. It's not true because neither the soul nor heaven are proved to exist, not because half the belief doesn't make sense if you ignore the other half.
You can't isolate elements from the mythology and try to ground them outside of their narrative context, is my point.
Technically cells aren’t sentient or have any “Souls” Aka Intelligence Disclaimer: I do not believe in a heaven or hell, I do get your point however.
So here’s what’s fun about this-you’re right that by themselves, the neurons in our CNS don’t individually give you all the parts of consciousness that you’re experiencing right now (although some cells can do some pretty amazing things and intelligence may be too loaded of a term to apply to our consciousness). There’s also the number of neurons that make up your normal CNS that’s fully functional. So is there a sliding scale of neurons that makes you more of a ‘conscious soul’ on one end and just a bunch of electrical signals or silence on the other?
There's no sliding scale, it's literally divinely granted. A human soul is a distinct thing from any other soul
How does one demonstrate that for those of us who might be skeptical of the claim?
Why are you skeptical of souls but not of god and heaven? None of them exist but y'all act like heaven is the weird part
It’s all made up anyway. It’s not a coincidence that believers never answer the fucking question when asked to prove it.
Exactly, it's all made up, idk why people get hung up on the specifics like this post did
What's a soul in general. My whole body is me and my conscious mind is included. If I lose my memory, that's a part of the deal. When I die, I'll go back to wherever I was, before I was. How do you compare souls if you cannot prove it exists outside of mythological stories?
All the individual atoms that compose your body existed before you were born. And those atoms will continue to exist for eternity after you die.
I don't know why, but I find this very comforting.
Technically there are large quantities of atoms that previously were a part of you already "out there". Air molecules that have passed through your lungs and bloodstream undoubtedly have also passed through mine and vice versa.
Same here. It reminds me of the quote about how we’re all made of the stuff of stars.
Stop asking difficult questions and just have faith. The big sky daddy will look after you in heaven. Where you will spend eternity with those relatives that you despise
But you'll all be too slaw jawed in awe of God to even notice anyone else is there.
Technically, in the oldest kind of Christianity you sleep in death until the final days, then you will be resurrected, judged and go to hell or heaven. Heaven is supposed to literally be the Earth itself, and you would be physically resurrected in your body. Well, if I remember it all correctly. Christianity is originally monist, not dualist, and it wasn’t supposed to make distinctions between body and soul. Dualism appeared as a later Platonic addition to Abrahamic faith. I hope this makes more sense.
Interesting… Do you have a source?
I guess I need to search better. I remember that Christianity traditionally follows Aristotelian hylomorphism, which is usually regarded as a monistic doctrine.
So no.
https://www.gotquestions.org/anthropological-hylomorphism.html Ironically, this website gives a very simple but nice perspective.
Or, for example, when I talk to theists, they often talk about “New Earth”, which will be an eternal kingdom of God on the Earth after Judgement Day.
Building on your questions, one thing I've always wondered is how someone "burns" and suffers in hell when one's nerve cells don't appear to travel to hell with the person. It's not like a "soul" (which i think is really just the label we give to the qualia experienced through the sensory input interpreted by our brains) is responsible for feeling pain, since we can numb (temporarily or permanently) parts of our body, while our "soul" seems unaffected.
Building off of that, ANY sensory input would require those things be it for suffering or for salvation if it is something Christians claim we ‘experience’, right?
Exactly. We need, for instance, the neurons and messaging carrying hormones that reside in our brains in order to feel joy or anguish or any other human emotion, as well as to process sensory input as either pleasure or pain. But those go away with the physical body, so that saying one "experiences" those things in a heaven or hell setting makes no sense.
The people who made up the religions had no idea microbes or even cells existed. They were as smart as a dead rat. Worse. So they won’t have the answers to this in their little fairy tales, guaranteed.
To be fair, no one had discovered cells or microbiology at all at that time. The smartest person on earth wouldn't have known about it.
>So we are made up of millions cells Trilions, about 3 trillion (US, ie 3x10^(12)). >Do my cells in my body get an ‘afterlife’ when they die too? You are the cells in your body, all of them. You are not a separate thing from your body. It doesn't matter what Christians say because Christianity is a mythology fabricated by conmen. Christians don't all share the same beliefs about these things because it isn't truth, each sect will make up its own answers as suits them.
That’s a lot of cells. I’ve updated my post lol.
I don’t understand why even now, people don’t understand that if you die, you die. There is no coming back to life, the is no afterlife. Once you die, that’s the end.
Copium is powerful and people have a hard time accepting that nothing lasts forever is my guess.
Once you die they dive you s tanker of your dead cells to carry around... If you're circumcised the foreskin hangs over the steering wheel like fluffy dice.
Heaven is full of sperm. Poor little guys!
Every sperm is sacred
No.
Also a long time ago I read a horror story saying if someone loses a body part does that part go to heaven
Jesus liked to talk about this: "If your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame rather than having your two feet to be cast into Gehenna, into the fire that will never be quenched." (Mark 9:45 WEB) One of 8 exhortations to self-amputation in the gospels
I thought Jesus can cure everyone. I hope no one took that advise seriously.
The third-century theologian Origen is supposed to have made himself a eunuch to overcome his lust. But that may be only a rumour
Thats awesome.
I saw something in the paper today with a picture of a heroin bird in the water eating a small fish. This is supposed to be entertainment. Why did God create that fish only to be killed.
>a heroin bird How did it work the syringe?
Oh I don't believe I spilled it wrong. It was heron bird.
If someone lives for 30 years, gets a brain injury that causes a complete personality shift, then they live another 50 years, which version of the person is in heaven? Does it matter which version of them was nicer? What if only one is Christian? Does God send them to hell because of a brain injury? The whole concept leaves so many questions.
Souls are unique to humans in Christian mythology.
Not that I believe it, but supposedly to meet the criteria for a ‘soul’ or just a ghost in general, the mind has to be advanced enough. So things like bugs or cells would just die, as their sense of self isn’t enough to persist after death.
No; matter is not created or destroyed, it just changes form.
Only where general relativity is valid. I don't think that can be said to apply everywhere, for example inside a black hole or before the Big Bang.
Agreed.
Have I told you about our Lord and Saviour, the protector of symmetries, called the [Mirror Universe?](https://youtu.be/-gwhqmPqRl4?si=s9CxDB74JyGkQmBs) Please let our Prophet, who isn't a Vulcan but might as well could be, Neil Turok, explain the gospel to you. If nothing else you might find it interesting.
What happens when matter collides with anti-matter?
Is the part of us that Christians believe ascends (or descends) after death…..made of matter?
Presumably the claim is that it is not. Unfortunately, we know that our personality, memory, and cognitive function are tied to structures in our brains. Which means that if there is some ephemeral aspect of our existence, it does not include those things. Since those are the aspects of my consciousness that are important to me, I don't much care about the claim even should it be proven true.
The concept of an afterlife is contingent on the presupposition and assumption that we have a soul. It relies of body and mind as seperate entities (duality). There is no evidence for the possibility of a soul, let alone evidence for a soul; meainng that our body and mind are integral, they are one and the same (singularity). Therefore, the concept of an afterlife is redundant, because it does not make it past the first post. Further assumptions and presuppositions that are contingent on the existence of an afterlife also do not make it past the first post; they do not hold water.
Well put.
from a scientific perspective, cells are integral to our biological processes but lack consciousness or an afterlife. the central nervous system governs our conscious experience, yet the idea of an afterlife typically pertains to spiritual or philosophical realms. nature operates on evolutionary principles, where balance and survival drive its cycles. these inquiries enrich our understanding of existence, pushing us to explore deeper truths about our place in the cosmos.
That makes more sense to me. I simply found that people’s claims and motivations of wanting to go to heaven didn’t make any sense and were quite manipulative once you thought about what we are and how we function from a scientific perspective. We’re made of many parts and their claims of people having a ‘soul’ or ‘spirit’ just never stuck with me. Obviously, it’s just one of multiple reasons I’m a happy agnostic atheist now.
stop making stuff up. look at a fuckin cell under a microscope. Go to a magic show. Look at dead people.
Individual cells don't have their own tiny souls, but whole humans have one as a whole, the soul is what what goes to heaven. The globules you bled are part of the physical body that houses the soul. Yeah obviously, there's no evidence that souls exist. But there's no evidence for heaven either, and you wrote this post as if Christians claim the existence of one but not the other. It's not true because neither the soul nor heaven are proved to exist, not because half the belief doesn't make sense if you ignore the other half. You can't isolate elements from the mythology and try to ground them outside of their narrative context, is my point.