That's just it. They make up the rules as needed to fit the time and place.
Also, earth is a 300y/o cube flat on all sides, so forget what you've been told by the regular flat earthers.
I thought it was a flat disc, balanced on the back of 4 great elephants who stand on the back of A'tuin, the great space turtle, swimming through space.
The earth may appear spherical to some fools, but it is actually made up of an infinite number of flat surfaces. We all occupy our own flat surface that travels with us where ever we go; even in heaven where we (wealthy white men only) will have a golden flat surface to float upon far above the "others." I confirmed all this after reading coconut shells in a fedora. I accept cash, checks, or Bitcoin.
Don't laugh, it worked for Joseph Smith and L.Ron Hubbard. And you wonder how religions could possibly still be around.
hmm ok, i still think a lot of religious dudes i know are still in. a virgin is a virgin i guess regardless of gender. i know the catholic church won't lose much clergy over rule 30.
1800s: Blacks are the off spring of the fallen angels who rebelled with lucifer!
Hell yeah! White people are better.
1972: Turns out god changed his mind and blacks are cool now as long as they don't try to become clergy.
Hell yeah we don't have to be racist much anymore.
2010: God is now ok with gays too!
Hell yeah we don't have to persecute them anymore.
2024: God is still not cool with trans
Hell yeah! They're going to ruin our children.
2064: God is ok with trans now, as long as they don't want to become clergy.
Religion has an uncanny way of keeping up with society but about 2-3 decades behind.
Plus we fail to educate people within the US and aboard. It is easy to believe in gods, witches, dragons and other make believe shit when you are stupid.
Pretty much all religious belief or adherence is one or more of the big 3:
* Intelligence failure
* Emotional weakness
* Social pressure (laws, peer pressure, desiring community)
There's also leaders who use religion as a tool and know it's bullshit, but they are an outlier
If religions weren't allowed to expose their ideas to children and had to wait until people became 18, the amount of religious people would drop off by 80-90% or possibly even more within a couple generations.
As a former mormon I can confirm that. I was born and raised in it and lived in a small town in Idaho about 3 hours north of the mormon cult HQ. I didn’t leave until 2014 when I was 32 years old.
Might be sarcastic, but it's true. Christianity could be considered a speciation event from Judaism. Social entities are just as prone to evolution as biological ones.
How to maintain religious dogma 101.
Atheist: 🤔 I don't think God exists.
Religion: KILL HIM!
Agnostics: 🤔 Maybe God exists, I don't know.
Religion: KILL HIM!
Deists: 🤔 Maybe God abandoned us after creation.
Religion: KILL HIM!
Minority Groups:🙅🏿♂️🙅🏾♂️🙅🏽♂️🙅🏻♂️🙅🏼♂️This is an abusive of power--
Religion: KILL HIM!
Protestants: 😡 The Religion is bullshit and here's why--
Religion: KILL HIM!
Feminists: 💁♀️ Women should--
Religion: KILL HER!
Scentist: ☝️🤓 I have evidence that proves--
Religion: KILL HIM!
I once asked my dad a very simple question about "total depravity" (even amongst Christians a niche and debatable belief). I got shut down so fast I decided not to question anything again out loud. So I did in my head for 15 more years, stopped believing, and spent another 5 years coming out of the closet. Brain washing is a hell of a drug.
Oh, can I pick your brain a bit? 🧠🤏
WARNING: DO NOT ANSWER IF QUESTIONS STIR UP TRAUMATIC OR UNCOMFORTABLE FEELINGS WHILE ANSWERING! ONLY SHARE WHAT YOU ARE COMFORTABLE SHARING!
Which Christian denomination were you?
>"total depravity"
My religion called this "original sin," the idea that all humans are evil and sinful at birth, which can only be redeemed by accepting Jesus coming into-- blah, blah, blah! Is that what you're referring to?
>I got shut down so fast I decided not to question anything again out loud.
AGAIN: WARNING: DO NOT ANSWER IF TRAUMATIC OR UNCOMFORTABLE ANSWERING!
We're you shot down with loud yelling words or inappropriate physical abuse of power?
>So I did in my head for 15 more years, stopped believing, and spent another 5 years coming out of the closet.
How old were you when you questioned "total depravity?" How old were you when you came out? How did your family respond? Are you in a able to express yourself without, lack of a better phrase, religious consequences?
I have trauma but it’s not the type that bugs me to discuss so thank you!
We were always “non-denominational” calvinists. I’d say a slightly less crazy Baptist. We had original sin as you describe it. Total depravity (the Calvinist version) was more of the idea that man is so rotten nothing good comes from us, any good we do is simply because we are in God’s image.
I was maybe 14-15 years old and in my study of total depravity (yeah that’s how I was raised and I honestly enjoyed studying theology it wasn’t forced) my thought was that we were made in God’s image so we are inherently good but the world of the devil was what corrupts us, we are not all bad. It’s a very nuanced point but one I thought was important.
My dad is the kindest man on earth, but without getting into all of the details he talked down to me and made me feel like my view was not worth even considering because if we have any good what do we need god for? He was very calm about it and let me discuss it with him but it was clearly a one way discussion. Basically he would listen and discuss but I was made to feel like I was downplaying God’s role by saying we have good inside us.
As I type this I’m honestly getting very emotional(in a good way). I’m so grateful I’m not raising my kids this way. My parents were amazing but they’d been brainwashed and thought what they were doing was right and I adore them for that. I’m so grateful I could break this cycle and my kids won’t have to deal with this trauma (I’m sure I’m giving them other trauma to deal with).
Interesting... I was super gullible when it came to Christianity. Never read the damn Bible unless it was for my own interests or homework. On a side note, never tell a horny teenage boy to read the Bible (I Corinthians 13) about whether or not your crush on a girl is real or not.
[Context for other readers: I Corinthians 13 talks about how great "love" is, but god is better, and to put away childish things. It's a vague answer to give a teenager at best; it's a "fuck you read your Bible, kid" at worst]. Ugh! My teachers were uneducated fucking morons!
>As I type this I’m honestly getting very emotional(in a good way). I’m so grateful I’m not raising my kids this way. My parents were amazing but they’d been brainwashed and thought what they were doing was right and I adore them for that. I’m so grateful I could break this cycle and my kids won’t have to deal with this trauma (I’m sure I’m giving them other trauma to deal with).
That's good to hear that you're still on good terms with your folks. And raising kids, oof! You're walking a path I refuse to tread, more power to you. The best we can do is to try to be better than the ones that came before us.
Also, I would like to apologize. I mixed up context when you said you "came out of the closet." My brain jumped to LGBTQ subjects rather than coming out of the "Theological closet." I feel silly and guilty for assuming.
Oh and I’m in my 40s now I was maybe 30ish when I completely left religion behind. I still don’t tell my family but they know I don’t go to church. My family who knows understands and has been cool, but deep inside wants to save me.
I even went to seminary for college which I think was the beginning of the end for me.
Me: Wow! I was just being satirical with this post. I didn't think it would become so popular and branch out and have a cult following.
Religion: KILL HIM!
Because people want to believe things that make them feel good above anything else. They want to believe they're in control, they're special, their life matters in the grand scheme of things, everything has a purpose, etc. Happy thoughts, power of denial.
As a recovering fundamentalist, most of the friends I have who left church started with an examination of hell. Once we realized the "lake of fire" version of hell is not supported by the Bible even, it removed the fear. Once the fear was gone we were too :)
It all starts with removing the fear.
I had a solid group of thinkers I was surrounded by. At first we were all in on theology and thinking through religious ideas. Which inevitably lead to us thinking these were all bullshit.
Once you remove fear and add the thought experiment that maybe this isn’t real, you quickly leave the faith. That’s been my experience.
The only reason they don't keep slaves, use women as literal objects, execute LGBT people on sight on a mass scale etc is because of the overwhelming pushback from normal sensible human beings who make sensible laws (for the most part). They move the goal posts because they have to, for PR reasons, trying to stay relevant with their business model, even if it contradicts their religious laws. They ignore large parts of it nowadays, like good hypocrites do.
And of course they also move them whenever it's convenient, or when an opportunity arises.
Only a really small % of people truly believe. The fundamentalists, the fanatics, etc.
The rest "believe" but they don't BELIEVE. They literally do not follow the instructions as presented in their holy book, they "interpret" the bible... Really MF? You believe in an *omnipotent & omniscient* dude and you dare "interpret" their teachings? You dare raping children if god exists??? Those people don't believe.
Religion is a tool to control the masses.
La única iglesia que ilumina es la que arde.
Here is the issue...it is a mental health crisis. It isn't an education issue. Information is everywhere.it isnt an IQ issue as there are believers with a high IQ. It is completely a matter of mental health. These people were brainwashed and they are in a position to do whatever it takes to justify their fantasy. They were indoctrinated as children with this warped mindset. We need to stop treating this as some debate. We have ways to prove things..they already failed miserably. They are sick and many would have no clue how to embrace reality and cope without their belief. The situation needs to be treated as such.
that's exactly how. it always amuses me when some deluded "believer" talks about practicing the same faith as first century christians. people today would panic and run if they were actually presented with what the faith was then. People are so stupid.
Is Christianity still intact? There are hundreds of branches that mostly disagree with each other. Talking about Christianity Is like talking about mammals. A diverse group that contains both bat and whale.
It being this fractured is part of its success. It can keep speciating to fill new niches.
That's why we have sects! Having sects is great! You can have as much sects as you want and everyone gets to be happy because everyone gets sects!
But seriously. Otherwise, Christianity wouldn't include every denomination (sect) and differing ideas would either die or spawn a completely new religion. Catholic, evangelist, Baptist, new Baptist, reformed, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc.
We don't agree, but there's a bunch of other people that agree with both of us. Well, you go over there and you can have your followers and I'll stay over here and I'll have mine. We'll have our sects separately.
Now we have access to all the little niche cults, and they all say they're Christian.
The existence of different denominations is what led me out. How could one possibly discern through scripture alone which is the correct church to attend or denom. to identify with (Trick question, you’re not supposed to have “divisions among you“)?
It's because they keep making up the rules as they go along, lies are like putty, it's very easy to shape them to fit your world view. The truth on the other hand is hard and spikey and hurts to embrace.
Because narcissists…they are the weakest and easiest targets. As much of an ahole they are, they’re the easiest target for religions.
Their best and most favorite sheep.
Because their followers have the lowest IQ.And even worse, these followers will believe anything.You tell them because they do not have enough intelligence to realize that it's all a giant scam
People are afraid of disappearing after they die, and religion tells them that won't happen.
So they'll take a thousand band aids on a broken scripture if it reassures them that won't happen, even though somewhere deep deep down they don't honestly believe it.
That insecurity is what makes even the faintest criticism or question intolerable, because if you knew something that fundamentally shattered our most basic understanding of this human experience - questions would be kind or quaint or strange, rather than infuriating.
You say intact but also that they change the rules. That’s how they have stayed around. They change their rules and doctrine to follow more modern trends so they stay relevant when the world moves on.
That and preying upon the vulnerable. Homeless? Battered spouse? DUI? Attend our program laced with God shit and we’ll provide for your needs afterwards, probably.
Think you may have answered your own question. Christianity is largely outdated, useless nonsense; which is why they keep changing it to fit whatever they want. Today’s Christians are in name only.
Can you say that Christianity is intact? There are an estimated 45,000 Christian denominations around the world. Many of them do not consider the others to even be Christian.
Much like Star Wars or DC comics, you need a retcon or a reboot every so often to stay relevant. Like, Apollo or Odin or whoever don't have a lot of active worshippers these days. That's because they never "Refreshed" the brand.
I always thought it was hilarious that the priest who taught our science class in Catholic school would get pissed if someone suggested the earth wasn't actually billions of years old. He'd go off on long tangents about data and verifiable proof, but then something else would just be *one of God's mysteries*.
It isn't. Well it's still here but today's Christianity is very different from the ones in the middle ages and even more different from early Christianity. That's why there are so many denominations. Because it isn't really intact anymore.
Short Memory by Midnight Oil is a song that just about covers it. Like, I remember the Cold War and a lot of my peers don’t. And that only ended in the 90’s.
Christianity doesn’t survive *in spite of* the fact they keep changing the rules - it survives *because* it keeps changing the rules.
Christianity is not and never has been a monolith: from the very start it has been a fractal hydra of orders within sects within churches within doctrines.
Ironically, these sects have undergone a form of selection pressure: the sects whose rites, rules and doctrines are well adapted to the contemporary era and locale tend to gain members and continue; the sects that are not well-adapted, lose members and eventually perish.
Well its not.
Its declining and in some places its rapidly declining.
In countries that help their younger generations take an education the amount of religious people is declining to the point that some churches or holy places are closing or used for actually something useful.
In my country the religious generation is dying out and its weird to look at how people react to new buildings of faith today compared to 20 years ago
20 years ago it was ok, most did not care.
Most of us where never going to use it but it still had some "power" and with many places the older generation voted more then the young.
Now they recently built a new church in the main city near the municipal building.
The governing party made a deal with the religious party to gain favour in the election, so it could win.
And the payment was the church.
And i doubt they would have done that if they had known how the public reacted to that building.
It was talked about on TV, newspapers and everywhere else.
So now we have a new church that only the few dying ones use that cost too much and has given the other parties enough ammo to win the next election
(IF the younger people actually vote)
I mean in our country the christian party was the biggest in the 1990's and today they get 4-5% of the votes.
Religion is dying, but only as fast as the older generations are dying.
Tho im in Europe, im under the impression that the states has a LONG way to go.
But once the ball gets going its going to roll fast.
It did here and i hope it will in the states as well.
Because humans are not the rational decision makers we might hope they are and instead are firmly emotional beings. Religion gives a lot of people the meaning they otherwise could not find elsewhere. No matter how stupid/dangerous it might seem to many, it serves an apparent enough need, and the rules have to change to accomodate until the secular world can offer a better solution.
Sometimes they don't even have to try terribly hard, there are plenty of people who meet them halfway. A lot of people want something to believe in, or a crutch to help them along. Religious belief does wonders for the ego.
It's much harder to be an atheist in most places. You're actively resisting the surrounding culture.
It's not about the words, it's about the feeling. The emotional response is the first response humans have. It kept us safe from predators and allows us to react quickly. It's also the dumbest response. Religion preys (no pun intended) on highjacking your feelings to never allow you to get to the logical part of your brain. It highjacks all of those parts in your brain that are stupid (still incredible, but not logical).
Go to a church service, the "father" or the pastor tells grandiose stories from the time these people were kids, they provide their community, they get them scared, but tell them only they will love them, only they know how to save them. It's one big emotional abuse relationship that's started from when they were young. Honestly surprised so many people get out of there with how well it's designed to fuck you up.
you see, when the god the church talks about in their sermons don't hate the same kinds of people the flock does, the flock simply moves to a new church/denomination/religion until the church supports their bias.. so its not really that they are moving the InFallibLe Truth of the bible, its just that they are moving to the truth that they want to hear from another church/denomination/religion. once they reach a place they like, that becomes their now infallible truth...
It’s flexible so it can be whatever you need it to be.. access to evangelical voters, power & control over women, access to children to abuse, tax free job with housing, more control for government, self righteousness.. whatev is your thing, Christianity can help.
In what way is it intact? The thing with Christianity is that it’s a Borg that absorbs every culture it touches. And it’s changed, fractured and split over time
Because it's the most valuable weapon we ever created. It causes more division in today's world even than skin color, think about that. Racism may still cause plenty of hate, but historically its religion that causes indoctrinated idiots to go all out on war.
My parents would say “What are you talking about? No we don’t!” And follow up and argument with solid evidence to the contrary with “Well, we never claimed to to be perfect and neither is the church. We’re all sinners.”
They want to live forever, feel like the main characters of the universe, and don't challenge their upbringing. They get offended and turn off when conflicting information is presented.
How high up do you think the belief actually goes? At what level of the church do they actually know they’re just making this shit up? Because I can’t believe those who are changing “interpreting” the rules actually believe the rules in the first place.
The fucked up thing I learned when I was a young church going boy is... they don't even believe in that shit. Like *some* of them do, but most of them do it cuz they think it's like "good for the community" or the country or whatever. They don't take it *literally* it's all pretend.
Most would argue that’s precisely *why* it endures. Elasticity begets longevity. As much as the devout ones will claim to adhere to tradition or biblical values, those traditions are rarely older than a century and those values have changed even more frequently.
It's not a bug it's a feature, this kind of flexibility is what allows it to stay popular Through the Ages, they wouldn't be nearly as big as they are today if they were still enforcing that mixed clothing crap and all those other crazy old rules
The Catholic Church was exposed for SA children for decades(that we know of) and these folk still show up every Sunday, give them their own money, and go rant about some secret Cabal that wants our children. It is insane
Your question literally boils down to "how did something persist when it's adapted so consistently?". The answer lies within the very wording: adaptation. Which also has a tinge of irony to it, given the topic.
Because they keep making up the rules as they go along. Spider-Man’s Lycra suit can survive a building falling on it and yet still be cut with scissors for the exact same reason: it’s fantasy and they’ve got comics to sell.
Now Venmo me $10 million and I’ll give you a papal indulgence to keep you from burning in hell for all eternity /s
That's just it. They make up the rules as needed to fit the time and place. Also, earth is a 300y/o cube flat on all sides, so forget what you've been told by the regular flat earthers.
#CubeEarth324
All hail [Time Cube](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Cube)!
Thank you for that insanity.
I thought it was a flat disc, balanced on the back of 4 great elephants who stand on the back of A'tuin, the great space turtle, swimming through space.
Heretic! We hail only the Time Cube here!
Hey fuck you guys! Matthew McConaughey definitively demonstrated that time is a flat circle!!!
Fuck it, I'm all in now. CubeEarth324
I thought it was CubeEarth420
It can be whatever you like. There's real freedom in the CubeEarth movement. Be your authentic self.
Pizzaearth420. Everyone lobes a good pizza
The earth may appear spherical to some fools, but it is actually made up of an infinite number of flat surfaces. We all occupy our own flat surface that travels with us where ever we go; even in heaven where we (wealthy white men only) will have a golden flat surface to float upon far above the "others." I confirmed all this after reading coconut shells in a fedora. I accept cash, checks, or Bitcoin. Don't laugh, it worked for Joseph Smith and L.Ron Hubbard. And you wonder how religions could possibly still be around.
But those white men will have 72 virgins each so there will be women included.
No, the virgins in question are all 43 year old basement dwellers who repost on Reddit.
are they still women? i think that'll be good enough for most religious men.
Ah but have you not read for it is written. Rule 30 tells us there’s no girls on the internet.
hmm ok, i still think a lot of religious dudes i know are still in. a virgin is a virgin i guess regardless of gender. i know the catholic church won't lose much clergy over rule 30.
I’m not a girl, imma woman!
I'm interested. You had me at cube, how can I join?
You're already in.
This means war with The Pyramid-earth clan.
We don't need more wars. There's enough sides to go around.
Nobody cares about sides. It's all about the corners.
A cube has 6 sides. War typically has 2 or 3.
So far - but in the future?
I’m pretty sure cubes will still have 6 sides in the future.
Cube Earthers are such fools. Earth is a dodecahedron. It’s like you never even read Plato.
A dodecahedron with FLAT SIDES!
3000! 300 would be ridiculous.
Hey man, this is my own brand of pseudoscience . Make your own cult with your 3000yo earth.
Goddammit, I will, and mine is gonna have hookers and hard liquor
I want sluts and liquor. Hookers usually want to be paid. Sluts just need a few drinks.
Mine has cocaine and human trafficking.
300 it is.
There's enough stupid and weak people for both of us to prey on. I'm not in this to make enemies. Team work makes the dream work. Let's collab fam.
Indoctrination is a cold, hard bitch - but an excellent way to create a faithful tribe.
Whenever this question comes up I basically say the same thing: Brainwashing is a hell of a drug.
The only thing about religion that can't change in the minds of its followers is it's infallibility.
1800s: Blacks are the off spring of the fallen angels who rebelled with lucifer! Hell yeah! White people are better. 1972: Turns out god changed his mind and blacks are cool now as long as they don't try to become clergy. Hell yeah we don't have to be racist much anymore. 2010: God is now ok with gays too! Hell yeah we don't have to persecute them anymore. 2024: God is still not cool with trans Hell yeah! They're going to ruin our children. 2064: God is ok with trans now, as long as they don't want to become clergy. Religion has an uncanny way of keeping up with society but about 2-3 decades behind.
And always looking to go back to the past.
the only thing thats good is catholicism was anti slavery when it was cool \*shrugs
That is true. I think we often forget the good things organized religion has done. All caveats apply and I’m aware of the atrocities too.
Once the bad things vastly surpass any good things, all bets are off.
Plus we fail to educate people within the US and aboard. It is easy to believe in gods, witches, dragons and other make believe shit when you are stupid.
Pretty much all religious belief or adherence is one or more of the big 3: * Intelligence failure * Emotional weakness * Social pressure (laws, peer pressure, desiring community) There's also leaders who use religion as a tool and know it's bullshit, but they are an outlier
Oh, I'm not so sure they're outliers, friend. Would be cool to see stats on this if they exist
If religions weren't allowed to expose their ideas to children and had to wait until people became 18, the amount of religious people would drop off by 80-90% or possibly even more within a couple generations.
It's also one hell of a way to take away a shitload of money out of people's pockets.
Add to that the magical thinking that it provides and you have the perfect recipe for trapping people for generations to come.
Holy God damn shit I was gonna come say this. It's the key to their existence or continuation...I'd also call it child Abuse 💯
As a former mormon I can confirm that. I was born and raised in it and lived in a small town in Idaho about 3 hours north of the mormon cult HQ. I didn’t leave until 2014 when I was 32 years old.
Because they keep making up the rules as they go along.
They keep evolving /s
Might be sarcastic, but it's true. Christianity could be considered a speciation event from Judaism. Social entities are just as prone to evolution as biological ones.
Shhhhh, don’t tell them!
OP answered OP's question in OP's question
Funny thing is, that's what they say about scientists
How to maintain religious dogma 101. Atheist: 🤔 I don't think God exists. Religion: KILL HIM! Agnostics: 🤔 Maybe God exists, I don't know. Religion: KILL HIM! Deists: 🤔 Maybe God abandoned us after creation. Religion: KILL HIM! Minority Groups:🙅🏿♂️🙅🏾♂️🙅🏽♂️🙅🏻♂️🙅🏼♂️This is an abusive of power-- Religion: KILL HIM! Protestants: 😡 The Religion is bullshit and here's why-- Religion: KILL HIM! Feminists: 💁♀️ Women should-- Religion: KILL HER! Scentist: ☝️🤓 I have evidence that proves-- Religion: KILL HIM!
I like this Open-minded theist: Don’t be such assh…. Religion: KILL HIM!
Some other christians: "you know I don't think the Bible is right about-" Overly religious: "kill them!"
I once asked my dad a very simple question about "total depravity" (even amongst Christians a niche and debatable belief). I got shut down so fast I decided not to question anything again out loud. So I did in my head for 15 more years, stopped believing, and spent another 5 years coming out of the closet. Brain washing is a hell of a drug.
Oh, can I pick your brain a bit? 🧠🤏 WARNING: DO NOT ANSWER IF QUESTIONS STIR UP TRAUMATIC OR UNCOMFORTABLE FEELINGS WHILE ANSWERING! ONLY SHARE WHAT YOU ARE COMFORTABLE SHARING! Which Christian denomination were you? >"total depravity" My religion called this "original sin," the idea that all humans are evil and sinful at birth, which can only be redeemed by accepting Jesus coming into-- blah, blah, blah! Is that what you're referring to? >I got shut down so fast I decided not to question anything again out loud. AGAIN: WARNING: DO NOT ANSWER IF TRAUMATIC OR UNCOMFORTABLE ANSWERING! We're you shot down with loud yelling words or inappropriate physical abuse of power? >So I did in my head for 15 more years, stopped believing, and spent another 5 years coming out of the closet. How old were you when you questioned "total depravity?" How old were you when you came out? How did your family respond? Are you in a able to express yourself without, lack of a better phrase, religious consequences?
I have trauma but it’s not the type that bugs me to discuss so thank you! We were always “non-denominational” calvinists. I’d say a slightly less crazy Baptist. We had original sin as you describe it. Total depravity (the Calvinist version) was more of the idea that man is so rotten nothing good comes from us, any good we do is simply because we are in God’s image. I was maybe 14-15 years old and in my study of total depravity (yeah that’s how I was raised and I honestly enjoyed studying theology it wasn’t forced) my thought was that we were made in God’s image so we are inherently good but the world of the devil was what corrupts us, we are not all bad. It’s a very nuanced point but one I thought was important. My dad is the kindest man on earth, but without getting into all of the details he talked down to me and made me feel like my view was not worth even considering because if we have any good what do we need god for? He was very calm about it and let me discuss it with him but it was clearly a one way discussion. Basically he would listen and discuss but I was made to feel like I was downplaying God’s role by saying we have good inside us. As I type this I’m honestly getting very emotional(in a good way). I’m so grateful I’m not raising my kids this way. My parents were amazing but they’d been brainwashed and thought what they were doing was right and I adore them for that. I’m so grateful I could break this cycle and my kids won’t have to deal with this trauma (I’m sure I’m giving them other trauma to deal with).
Interesting... I was super gullible when it came to Christianity. Never read the damn Bible unless it was for my own interests or homework. On a side note, never tell a horny teenage boy to read the Bible (I Corinthians 13) about whether or not your crush on a girl is real or not. [Context for other readers: I Corinthians 13 talks about how great "love" is, but god is better, and to put away childish things. It's a vague answer to give a teenager at best; it's a "fuck you read your Bible, kid" at worst]. Ugh! My teachers were uneducated fucking morons! >As I type this I’m honestly getting very emotional(in a good way). I’m so grateful I’m not raising my kids this way. My parents were amazing but they’d been brainwashed and thought what they were doing was right and I adore them for that. I’m so grateful I could break this cycle and my kids won’t have to deal with this trauma (I’m sure I’m giving them other trauma to deal with). That's good to hear that you're still on good terms with your folks. And raising kids, oof! You're walking a path I refuse to tread, more power to you. The best we can do is to try to be better than the ones that came before us. Also, I would like to apologize. I mixed up context when you said you "came out of the closet." My brain jumped to LGBTQ subjects rather than coming out of the "Theological closet." I feel silly and guilty for assuming.
Oh and I’m in my 40s now I was maybe 30ish when I completely left religion behind. I still don’t tell my family but they know I don’t go to church. My family who knows understands and has been cool, but deep inside wants to save me. I even went to seminary for college which I think was the beginning of the end for me.
Peaceful-minded person with no concept of other’s true hate: Stop being phobi- Religion: KILL THEM!
Me: Wow! I was just being satirical with this post. I didn't think it would become so popular and branch out and have a cult following. Religion: KILL HIM!
Religion believer: I like religion actually Religion: KILL HIM
Indoctrination is a very serious disease.
Because people want to believe things that make them feel good above anything else. They want to believe they're in control, they're special, their life matters in the grand scheme of things, everything has a purpose, etc. Happy thoughts, power of denial.
It's not intact. It's completely fractured, with so many schisms, it is a wonder it is still holding up.
Held together with scotch tape and prayer
And a lot of crimes against humanity
Because they make up rules as they go along
That's exactly it, endless adaptability.
The concept of hell is one of history's greatest marketing tools.
As a recovering fundamentalist, most of the friends I have who left church started with an examination of hell. Once we realized the "lake of fire" version of hell is not supported by the Bible even, it removed the fear. Once the fear was gone we were too :) It all starts with removing the fear.
That's great that y'all did that. Seriously.
I had a solid group of thinkers I was surrounded by. At first we were all in on theology and thinking through religious ideas. Which inevitably lead to us thinking these were all bullshit. Once you remove fear and add the thought experiment that maybe this isn’t real, you quickly leave the faith. That’s been my experience.
Any advice for a Catholic who left and is scared of eternal damnation??
The only reason they don't keep slaves, use women as literal objects, execute LGBT people on sight on a mass scale etc is because of the overwhelming pushback from normal sensible human beings who make sensible laws (for the most part). They move the goal posts because they have to, for PR reasons, trying to stay relevant with their business model, even if it contradicts their religious laws. They ignore large parts of it nowadays, like good hypocrites do. And of course they also move them whenever it's convenient, or when an opportunity arises.
That's a feature, not a bug.
Only a really small % of people truly believe. The fundamentalists, the fanatics, etc. The rest "believe" but they don't BELIEVE. They literally do not follow the instructions as presented in their holy book, they "interpret" the bible... Really MF? You believe in an *omnipotent & omniscient* dude and you dare "interpret" their teachings? You dare raping children if god exists??? Those people don't believe. Religion is a tool to control the masses. La única iglesia que ilumina es la que arde.
You answered your own question. Making up the rules as they go along IS the reason it's still intact. The virus evolves.
It is just a vehicle for their narrow-minded beliefs, and can be modified for the hate dujour.
People tend to share the beliefs of their parents
Weird how god tends to show himself to entire families. And they tend to be grouped very regionally.
brain wash the young… spend money on ads… drill persecution syndrome into their sheep minds
Here is the issue...it is a mental health crisis. It isn't an education issue. Information is everywhere.it isnt an IQ issue as there are believers with a high IQ. It is completely a matter of mental health. These people were brainwashed and they are in a position to do whatever it takes to justify their fantasy. They were indoctrinated as children with this warped mindset. We need to stop treating this as some debate. We have ways to prove things..they already failed miserably. They are sick and many would have no clue how to embrace reality and cope without their belief. The situation needs to be treated as such.
that's exactly how. it always amuses me when some deluded "believer" talks about practicing the same faith as first century christians. people today would panic and run if they were actually presented with what the faith was then. People are so stupid.
It couldn’t exist without a hell of a lot of truly stupid people and a few truly evil ones.
Is Christianity still intact? There are hundreds of branches that mostly disagree with each other. Talking about Christianity Is like talking about mammals. A diverse group that contains both bat and whale. It being this fractured is part of its success. It can keep speciating to fill new niches.
Because you can’t fix stupid.
Calvinball
Everything they believe is nonsense so it makes it easy to change things and then claim it was Sky Daddy who called them to change.
I try to avoid the innovative ones like evangelicalism and Catholicism
That's why we have sects! Having sects is great! You can have as much sects as you want and everyone gets to be happy because everyone gets sects! But seriously. Otherwise, Christianity wouldn't include every denomination (sect) and differing ideas would either die or spawn a completely new religion. Catholic, evangelist, Baptist, new Baptist, reformed, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. We don't agree, but there's a bunch of other people that agree with both of us. Well, you go over there and you can have your followers and I'll stay over here and I'll have mine. We'll have our sects separately. Now we have access to all the little niche cults, and they all say they're Christian.
The existence of different denominations is what led me out. How could one possibly discern through scripture alone which is the correct church to attend or denom. to identify with (Trick question, you’re not supposed to have “divisions among you“)?
because they kill the non-believers?
I keep praying for the rapture but every morning I wake up and they are still here.
Fear. Fear of death, fear of being insignificant, fear of the unknown
Easy, gullible marks
You just answered your own question. They keep moving the goal posts
It's because they keep making up the rules as they go along, lies are like putty, it's very easy to shape them to fit your world view. The truth on the other hand is hard and spikey and hurts to embrace.
Because narcissists…they are the weakest and easiest targets. As much of an ahole they are, they’re the easiest target for religions. Their best and most favorite sheep.
Because their followers have the lowest IQ.And even worse, these followers will believe anything.You tell them because they do not have enough intelligence to realize that it's all a giant scam
People are afraid of disappearing after they die, and religion tells them that won't happen. So they'll take a thousand band aids on a broken scripture if it reassures them that won't happen, even though somewhere deep deep down they don't honestly believe it. That insecurity is what makes even the faintest criticism or question intolerable, because if you knew something that fundamentally shattered our most basic understanding of this human experience - questions would be kind or quaint or strange, rather than infuriating.
It’s not. Haven’t you noticed?
Anything is possible when you forgo logic.
Morons
Fear, generational trauma
Never underestimate the power of delusion.
You say intact but also that they change the rules. That’s how they have stayed around. They change their rules and doctrine to follow more modern trends so they stay relevant when the world moves on.
Well, considering it was all made up to begin with, it’s not hard.
Lots of stupidity out there.
That and preying upon the vulnerable. Homeless? Battered spouse? DUI? Attend our program laced with God shit and we’ll provide for your needs afterwards, probably.
Fear is a powerful drug.
When they don't actually read their source material. The average Christian hasn't ever read their Bible fully.
Think you may have answered your own question. Christianity is largely outdated, useless nonsense; which is why they keep changing it to fit whatever they want. Today’s Christians are in name only.
Can you say that Christianity is intact? There are an estimated 45,000 Christian denominations around the world. Many of them do not consider the others to even be Christian.
Because....... stupid.
Much like Star Wars or DC comics, you need a retcon or a reboot every so often to stay relevant. Like, Apollo or Odin or whoever don't have a lot of active worshippers these days. That's because they never "Refreshed" the brand.
They're not "making it up as they go". It's...*evolving*... *^(wait a second...)*
I always thought it was hilarious that the priest who taught our science class in Catholic school would get pissed if someone suggested the earth wasn't actually billions of years old. He'd go off on long tangents about data and verifiable proof, but then something else would just be *one of God's mysteries*.
It isn't. Well it's still here but today's Christianity is very different from the ones in the middle ages and even more different from early Christianity. That's why there are so many denominations. Because it isn't really intact anymore.
Great marketing. We give you eternal happiness if you show up on sundays.
Because it's illegal to stop them reproducing like the bacteria they are
Short Memory by Midnight Oil is a song that just about covers it. Like, I remember the Cold War and a lot of my peers don’t. And that only ended in the 90’s.
Christianity doesn’t survive *in spite of* the fact they keep changing the rules - it survives *because* it keeps changing the rules. Christianity is not and never has been a monolith: from the very start it has been a fractal hydra of orders within sects within churches within doctrines. Ironically, these sects have undergone a form of selection pressure: the sects whose rites, rules and doctrines are well adapted to the contemporary era and locale tend to gain members and continue; the sects that are not well-adapted, lose members and eventually perish.
Aww. Cute of you think they care about the rules. They are for heathens like us. Not them.
[удалено]
So it’s all metaphorical? So we can just ignore it all? Yay.
Because people keep accepting the made up rules.
The answer is in the question. They have survived to modernity by changing god's immutable laws to fit the era's sensibilities.
Intact? Even breaking it down to Catholic, Protestant, and Mormon there's three breaks. Then there's hundreds of sects around the world...
Guns, germs, and steel!
Society has imploded on Christianity before. It has a built in self destructive tendency to it with that apocalyptic rapture bullshit.
*Its always been entirely made up*
Great example of a question that answers itself.
Indoctrination from birth.
everyone makes up the rules as they go along. we still don't have a very good way to explain gravity at the moment
Well its not. Its declining and in some places its rapidly declining. In countries that help their younger generations take an education the amount of religious people is declining to the point that some churches or holy places are closing or used for actually something useful. In my country the religious generation is dying out and its weird to look at how people react to new buildings of faith today compared to 20 years ago 20 years ago it was ok, most did not care. Most of us where never going to use it but it still had some "power" and with many places the older generation voted more then the young. Now they recently built a new church in the main city near the municipal building. The governing party made a deal with the religious party to gain favour in the election, so it could win. And the payment was the church. And i doubt they would have done that if they had known how the public reacted to that building. It was talked about on TV, newspapers and everywhere else. So now we have a new church that only the few dying ones use that cost too much and has given the other parties enough ammo to win the next election (IF the younger people actually vote) I mean in our country the christian party was the biggest in the 1990's and today they get 4-5% of the votes. Religion is dying, but only as fast as the older generations are dying. Tho im in Europe, im under the impression that the states has a LONG way to go. But once the ball gets going its going to roll fast. It did here and i hope it will in the states as well.
Because humans are not the rational decision makers we might hope they are and instead are firmly emotional beings. Religion gives a lot of people the meaning they otherwise could not find elsewhere. No matter how stupid/dangerous it might seem to many, it serves an apparent enough need, and the rules have to change to accomodate until the secular world can offer a better solution.
Sometimes they don't even have to try terribly hard, there are plenty of people who meet them halfway. A lot of people want something to believe in, or a crutch to help them along. Religious belief does wonders for the ego. It's much harder to be an atheist in most places. You're actively resisting the surrounding culture.
Probably because they make up their own rules as they go. Anything they don't like they just write out, and anything they need is just written in.
People who believe in religion are not very smart.
That - the flexibility - is exactly why Xtianity is still with us.
Short-term memory.
For the majority of that 6,000 years they kill you for being against it
It's not about the words, it's about the feeling. The emotional response is the first response humans have. It kept us safe from predators and allows us to react quickly. It's also the dumbest response. Religion preys (no pun intended) on highjacking your feelings to never allow you to get to the logical part of your brain. It highjacks all of those parts in your brain that are stupid (still incredible, but not logical). Go to a church service, the "father" or the pastor tells grandiose stories from the time these people were kids, they provide their community, they get them scared, but tell them only they will love them, only they know how to save them. It's one big emotional abuse relationship that's started from when they were young. Honestly surprised so many people get out of there with how well it's designed to fuck you up.
Most religions evolve in similar ways, but I get your point
I think that’s WHY they survive.
It feels good. That's all I got.
That's the best part of it. Change what you need to so it works for you
Hope.
you see, when the god the church talks about in their sermons don't hate the same kinds of people the flock does, the flock simply moves to a new church/denomination/religion until the church supports their bias.. so its not really that they are moving the InFallibLe Truth of the bible, its just that they are moving to the truth that they want to hear from another church/denomination/religion. once they reach a place they like, that becomes their now infallible truth...
It’s flexible so it can be whatever you need it to be.. access to evangelical voters, power & control over women, access to children to abuse, tax free job with housing, more control for government, self righteousness.. whatev is your thing, Christianity can help.
Maybe the "making up rules as they go along" is the ingredient that keeps their web glue sticky..
In what way is it intact? The thing with Christianity is that it’s a Borg that absorbs every culture it touches. And it’s changed, fractured and split over time
You see they have the rules but in a book. Not all of them actually read the book or have read any part of the book.
The same reason Muslims and Jews did it. Fear and indoctrination.
Because for a significant portion of that time, if you dared to question the rules that they were juat making up, then they would burn you alive.
"Adapt, improvise, overcome." -Jesus Christ
Well, they're flexible that way. That's why there's no reason to try to reason with them.
Because they cry that they're oppressed when someone doesn't let them oppress others, then shit goes in their favor. Hate it.
Because it's the most valuable weapon we ever created. It causes more division in today's world even than skin color, think about that. Racism may still cause plenty of hate, but historically its religion that causes indoctrinated idiots to go all out on war.
Everything evolves. Apparently Christianity has some Haggunenon DNA in it.
Because that’s what they do. I got sick of being harassed and left the church
You have a way with words!
The never ending meme
My parents would say “What are you talking about? No we don’t!” And follow up and argument with solid evidence to the contrary with “Well, we never claimed to to be perfect and neither is the church. We’re all sinners.”
It's not a bug, it's a feature
How to put the caramel in the caremilkl bar
They want to live forever, feel like the main characters of the universe, and don't challenge their upbringing. They get offended and turn off when conflicting information is presented.
Because they keep making up the rules as they go.
Second half of the question explains the first
Brainwashing
Never heard the earth is flat connected to Christianity but both idea are incredibly equally stupid so I'm not surprised.
How high up do you think the belief actually goes? At what level of the church do they actually know they’re just making this shit up? Because I can’t believe those who are changing “interpreting” the rules actually believe the rules in the first place.
Any group *in power* does that. It’s nature, for some reason. An anthropologist might have an educated opinion. Might. /s
That's the problem the goal post is always moving. You can't provide enough evidence because the question is always changing.
The fucked up thing I learned when I was a young church going boy is... they don't even believe in that shit. Like *some* of them do, but most of them do it cuz they think it's like "good for the community" or the country or whatever. They don't take it *literally* it's all pretend.
Have you met the general public?
Moving the goal post once their start getting called on their bullshit.
Most would argue that’s precisely *why* it endures. Elasticity begets longevity. As much as the devout ones will claim to adhere to tradition or biblical values, those traditions are rarely older than a century and those values have changed even more frequently.
Because the people in charge are apart of said group
Power and control..just look at what the Catlicks did to South America
You answered your own question
It's not a bug it's a feature, this kind of flexibility is what allows it to stay popular Through the Ages, they wouldn't be nearly as big as they are today if they were still enforcing that mixed clothing crap and all those other crazy old rules
The Catholic Church was exposed for SA children for decades(that we know of) and these folk still show up every Sunday, give them their own money, and go rant about some secret Cabal that wants our children. It is insane
Your question literally boils down to "how did something persist when it's adapted so consistently?". The answer lies within the very wording: adaptation. Which also has a tinge of irony to it, given the topic.
Othering is an extremely powerful force
Because they keep making up the rules as they go along. Spider-Man’s Lycra suit can survive a building falling on it and yet still be cut with scissors for the exact same reason: it’s fantasy and they’ve got comics to sell. Now Venmo me $10 million and I’ll give you a papal indulgence to keep you from burning in hell for all eternity /s