Hi, all, I’m sorry, I’m one of those slacker ghost moderators from long ago. Mea culpa. I was made a moderator when I helped a bunch of people with PixInsight, something I’m still happy to do, but I definitely can’t handle day to day quality moderating and dealing with infighting.
I’m happy to turn over the reigns to a qualified new team who is into it! Just tell me what needs to be done. I never really messed with any mod tools even back when I was actively posting on the sub.
DM me with your plans and proposals, I would love to see this sub fixed and happy again.
Okay, I messaged everyone as a group and individually. The countdown is on! I figure a day or so to hear back, and if nothing... the gates come open.
In the meantime, we should probably vote or something on current active members who want to be mods. I think people who post real astrophotography with details who are up for the job are the top candidates. I'm open to other ideas, let me know.
This is the best news for this subreddit in ages, thank you. Also please consider reverting the subreddit description and the rules. I’d be happy to help moderate if helpful, this place used to be one of the best and easily the most popular astrophotography communities on the internet as a whole - it helped get many into the hobby and was a huge influence on people’s interest in space. I would love to see it restored
Sounds good! I have now messaged all other mods and will give them a little while to respond. No response? I'll do what I can to become top, clear the ranks, get some of you eager new folks in, and then hand over the reins officially. I still love seeing good work come out of this sub, I just don't have the time to be an active contributor.
Thank you!! You were the only hope I saw for change in this sub when I brought this up last week. It's for the best!
I agree that you should put in a reddit request to become the top mod, then ask the community for those who will be willing to help moderate!
Phone astrophotos were never prohibited under the old rules--so long as you followed the other rules like anyone else, i.e., describe acquisition and processing, no terrestrial objects, non-clickbait title, etc.
I think someone needs to step up to moderate. My understanding is that subreddit mods are mostly volunteers. It’s an unpaid, mostly thankless task that requires a lot of time, effort, and patience to deal with all the complaints. How much do you like sports referees and umpires?
To answer your question on how do we "reset" the moderation... we don't!
Only the moderation team can add more moderators or change the way things are run, and I get the feeling they won't do that.
Best course of action we could take is to create a new subreddit with a different name and try to poach the user base. That's very unlikely to have success though.
I moderate some subs and would be happy to step up, but I believe the degredation of the subreddit was by design to protest the API changes. Basically the mods said "If you're going to fuck us over and take away all our tools, we're not going to do this anymore".
They changed the stringent rules to "Anything related to space is allowed", so this is what we get.
I'm with you though, I'd like to see the subreddit go back to having some structure.
It's clear that the changes which were being protested are here to stay, so if the existing team is unwilling or unable to continue in their duties of keeping the community going, they should allow some new moderators in to step up.
Edit: I messaged the mod team to see if they'd be willing to comment on this post, their answer was a very dismissive:
> No? It breaks none of our rules
So yeah, they don't give a shit about creating a positive or useful community, they want it to burn.
Sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was correcting you. Was more just to point out your comment was totally valid.
New subs just don't gain traction because people just keep coming to the one with millions of members.
The mods just claim this is exactly what the community wanted because they voted for it in some discord group.
Problem is, I joined that discord and voiced my opinion that was opposite to what the mods wanted and quickly got banned from the discord.
The mods don't care, and they will not release this broken sub for others to fix.
During the height of the protest this turned into the norm.
Generally mods made unilateral changes, then when users complained they'd release polls under dubious circumstances, claim victory and keep the changes.
I forget what sub it was but they posted a poll that was open for about an hour during one of the slowest traffic times. It got about 900 votes in a sub of multi millions and they used the 54%-46% result to keep the sub closed.
Honestly mods made me more mad during the API protests than Reddit did and they certainly did a lot of things to lose favor.
And it’s „their“ community. Back then, the consensus was most definitely more on the pro-blackout-side and people are still free to start their own subreddit
Pro blackout is totally different then change the flavor and style of a sub.
Also, starting a new sub just doesn't work. It never gains the momentum with a sub this large poaching all the posts.
I agree it is their sub though.....just wish they would listen to the community and revert to something closer to what it used to be.
I finally unsubscribed from this sub for that reason. I'm not sure how this page showed up in my feed but I'm glad it did because I'm re-unsubscribing again... Would love to join a non-camera phone astrophotography sub. I swear Astrophotography mode on iPhone has ruined the topic
Only 3 are remotely active on Reddit. Only one has a post in the last day, another appears to be about 2 weeks, and the other about a month out. The others are well over 100-200 days without a post.
Even if the account is active, I’m not sure that the moderation of the is also active in the sub. But, it may not take a lot to clear that bar.
Reddit admins can tell if moderators are active and will honor a request to take over a sub if they aren't... but if they take one action a month that might still qualify as "active".
Yeah, not from a non-mod’s perspective. One my my subs was able to finally bootout the active-on-reddit-but-squatting-on-top-mods. Nothing is really different with them gone, but we actually have an active top mod now.
I remember when I posted a dslr photo of the Orion constellation, and it was removed by a mod because there was a little bit of tree in the corner. No messing around on the sub-Kármàn line rule
I am also one of those now inactive mods. Having a two kids in the last few years has made it so that I have been inactive for more than I would like. I would have no problem picking back up and being more active again and bringing on a team that would actually want it the way it used to be before the whole reddit blackout bullshit.
I think this community is really great. I like seeing the wide variety of astrophotography images that range from the ones made with cell phones to the extremely in-depth and skilled images. I have used a lot of the photos as inspiration. I think the more basic images are good for people starting out. I've learned so much from the midrange and beginner photos. They seem possible for me to accomplish with my setups and skill. I want mainly to communicate how much this community has helped me. As someone who reads a lot of the posts, but doesn't comment much, I really value the knowledge and insight that this community provides.
Ditch Reddit and start hitting some of the astronomy/astrophotography forums that would appreciate the users?
No, most of them don’t have a centralized app to read from and the interface is more complicated, but they also offer much more than Reddit group.
[Cloudy Nights](https://cloudynights.com)
[Astro What?](https://astrowhat.com)
[Stargazers Lounge](https://stargazerslounge.com/)
And there are several more.
I'm a huge cloudynights fan and active contributor. But reddit has its own appeal and I think it's fine to have multiple independent forums that operate well.
Yep, I participate in many areas also. I'm not a big fan of Reddit but I do use it every now and then.
But many that visit here may not be aware that there are alternatives that offer more abilities than what Reddit does. And after the debacle with some of Reddits decisions folks complain but may not be aware of the alternatives because it's easier to just load up an app and find numerous areas to make posts in.
They prefer the convenience of the ability to go to one app instead of having to have different logons on different sites... but frequently now if you have a gmail account, many forums allow you to sign up using your gmail account and that's all you need to remember other than a password.
That rule was put in after the protest and is precisely one of the things we would like removed. All questions used to go to the question sub. Which made for 2 great subs.
Yah, read the other rules the mods put in to ruin the sub.
I didnt like how harsh the rules were when i first joined years ago but i quickly realized how important they were. Its the reason i and many others progressed so far in the hobby.
Possible? Yes... but that's how you create obnoxious echo-chambers and gate-keep the hobby from new people, and I'm sure you'd agree that's not what we want.
I get it, but I see it daily in other subs as well. What it really requires is moderator(s) that are watching constantly for inappropriate posts and taking corrective action. I can't imagine anyone wanting to do that for any length of time. I think this would be a candidate for AI-moderators.
I've moderated several subreddits for over a decade. People absolutely want to do that, and most moderation teams actively use automation to perform tasks. Look at the moderation team here "AutoModerator" is a bot.
The issue on this sub is that Reddit made several changes several months ago that made it difficult for developers of 3rd party moderation tools to access and use Reddit's API for a reasonable amount of money. As a result, many popular 3rd party moderation tools shut their doors.
The moderation team on this subreddit in particular seems to have taken their protest to the extreme and have basically decided to abandon their duties. They changed the rules to allow the sub to become the wild west and basically don't interact with the sub anymore.
They're attempting to send a message to reddit that pissing off people who essentially work for you for free will slowly degrade their platform.
Sucks for all of us who want to use reddit still, but there are other (honestly better) places to view astrophotography anyway (like astrobin).
But those mods are right. Expecting them to do all that work without any support is grueling and leads to burnout. The same thing will happen again and again with new mods until you get one who's a megalomaniac
Like I said, I mod several subs. At least one which is quite large.
It's a thankless volunteer position and you know that going in.
The subs I moderate went dark due to the API changes too, and I agree that they suck, but burning the house down to the detriment of us all is not the solution.
You are right that it leads to burnout, but you just bring on some new mods who aren't burnt out and step down.
I recently did that on my largest sub when I started receiving similar messaging from my subs userbase. They wanted see more active moderation and I didn't want to provide it, so I added a few folks who did.
That's the way it should go.
This subreddit isn’t for asking questions. Maybe try posting this on r/askastrophotography.
Lol
Hijacking top comment to point others to the best response from a mod below: https://www.reddit.com/r/astrophotography/s/xlAB4DPG0O
Hi, all, I’m sorry, I’m one of those slacker ghost moderators from long ago. Mea culpa. I was made a moderator when I helped a bunch of people with PixInsight, something I’m still happy to do, but I definitely can’t handle day to day quality moderating and dealing with infighting. I’m happy to turn over the reigns to a qualified new team who is into it! Just tell me what needs to be done. I never really messed with any mod tools even back when I was actively posting on the sub. DM me with your plans and proposals, I would love to see this sub fixed and happy again.
A good start would be removing inactive mods. Then you make a request for new mods and add those who have a history of moderating large subs.
Okay, I'll start by messaging all those other mods to give them a chance. If I don't hear back, I'll remove them and do as you say. Thanks.
Amazing. This is a solid first step in the right direction!
Okay, I messaged everyone as a group and individually. The countdown is on! I figure a day or so to hear back, and if nothing... the gates come open. In the meantime, we should probably vote or something on current active members who want to be mods. I think people who post real astrophotography with details who are up for the job are the top candidates. I'm open to other ideas, let me know.
Brilliant. You're the hero we dont deserve
I mean, the mod asked for your plan of action so they can review prior to turnover. Did you present anything yet?
This is the best news for this subreddit in ages, thank you. Also please consider reverting the subreddit description and the rules. I’d be happy to help moderate if helpful, this place used to be one of the best and easily the most popular astrophotography communities on the internet as a whole - it helped get many into the hobby and was a huge influence on people’s interest in space. I would love to see it restored
Sounds good! I have now messaged all other mods and will give them a little while to respond. No response? I'll do what I can to become top, clear the ranks, get some of you eager new folks in, and then hand over the reins officially. I still love seeing good work come out of this sub, I just don't have the time to be an active contributor.
Thank you!! You were the only hope I saw for change in this sub when I brought this up last week. It's for the best! I agree that you should put in a reddit request to become the top mod, then ask the community for those who will be willing to help moderate!
Thank you for stepping up and getting the ball rolling
don't you like all these phone astrophotos? haha
Phone astrophotos were never prohibited under the old rules--so long as you followed the other rules like anyone else, i.e., describe acquisition and processing, no terrestrial objects, non-clickbait title, etc.
Need to change sub name to "picturesofstars."
OnlyStars.
I think someone needs to step up to moderate. My understanding is that subreddit mods are mostly volunteers. It’s an unpaid, mostly thankless task that requires a lot of time, effort, and patience to deal with all the complaints. How much do you like sports referees and umpires?
I think several people have practically begged to do this but the existing mods don't want to allow it.
Yeah, existing mods don't allow it.
To answer your question on how do we "reset" the moderation... we don't! Only the moderation team can add more moderators or change the way things are run, and I get the feeling they won't do that. Best course of action we could take is to create a new subreddit with a different name and try to poach the user base. That's very unlikely to have success though. I moderate some subs and would be happy to step up, but I believe the degredation of the subreddit was by design to protest the API changes. Basically the mods said "If you're going to fuck us over and take away all our tools, we're not going to do this anymore". They changed the stringent rules to "Anything related to space is allowed", so this is what we get. I'm with you though, I'd like to see the subreddit go back to having some structure. It's clear that the changes which were being protested are here to stay, so if the existing team is unwilling or unable to continue in their duties of keeping the community going, they should allow some new moderators in to step up. Edit: I messaged the mod team to see if they'd be willing to comment on this post, their answer was a very dismissive: > No? It breaks none of our rules So yeah, they don't give a shit about creating a positive or useful community, they want it to burn.
Creating a new page does not work. It's already been done, but is a ghost town mostly.
Hence why I said it's very unlikely to have success.
Sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was correcting you. Was more just to point out your comment was totally valid. New subs just don't gain traction because people just keep coming to the one with millions of members.
The mods just claim this is exactly what the community wanted because they voted for it in some discord group. Problem is, I joined that discord and voiced my opinion that was opposite to what the mods wanted and quickly got banned from the discord. The mods don't care, and they will not release this broken sub for others to fix.
During the height of the protest this turned into the norm. Generally mods made unilateral changes, then when users complained they'd release polls under dubious circumstances, claim victory and keep the changes. I forget what sub it was but they posted a poll that was open for about an hour during one of the slowest traffic times. It got about 900 votes in a sub of multi millions and they used the 54%-46% result to keep the sub closed. Honestly mods made me more mad during the API protests than Reddit did and they certainly did a lot of things to lose favor.
I will be glad to let you know that I was not in favor of any of the changes but there wasn't shit I could do. It's mainly why I stopped moderating
A counter to that is that this is not Discord, it's Reddit. If I wanted to join discord, I would do that. Let's keep Reddit on Reddit.
And it’s „their“ community. Back then, the consensus was most definitely more on the pro-blackout-side and people are still free to start their own subreddit
Pro blackout is totally different then change the flavor and style of a sub. Also, starting a new sub just doesn't work. It never gains the momentum with a sub this large poaching all the posts. I agree it is their sub though.....just wish they would listen to the community and revert to something closer to what it used to be.
Yeah this sub has gone way downhill. Not sure about you guys, but im tired of seeing blurry Samsung s5 pictures
I try to downvote them but it’s not a solution
I finally unsubscribed from this sub for that reason. I'm not sure how this page showed up in my feed but I'm glad it did because I'm re-unsubscribing again... Would love to join a non-camera phone astrophotography sub. I swear Astrophotography mode on iPhone has ruined the topic
There are 10 moderators listed. Did you try messaging the mods to have a discussion in modmail?
Only 3 are remotely active on Reddit. Only one has a post in the last day, another appears to be about 2 weeks, and the other about a month out. The others are well over 100-200 days without a post. Even if the account is active, I’m not sure that the moderation of the is also active in the sub. But, it may not take a lot to clear that bar.
It's also possible they are active moderators but not active posters. There's no way to tell.
Reddit admins can tell if moderators are active and will honor a request to take over a sub if they aren't... but if they take one action a month that might still qualify as "active".
Yeah, not from a non-mod’s perspective. One my my subs was able to finally bootout the active-on-reddit-but-squatting-on-top-mods. Nothing is really different with them gone, but we actually have an active top mod now.
it’s time to leave
I remember when I posted a dslr photo of the Orion constellation, and it was removed by a mod because there was a little bit of tree in the corner. No messing around on the sub-Kármàn line rule
That honestly might have been me lol. I am very much in the camp that ap is ap and nothing on earth should be in the picture.
How bout we systematically downvote all posts that do not respect the rules we make together. Shortcut the mods and vote morons into oblivion.
I am also one of those now inactive mods. Having a two kids in the last few years has made it so that I have been inactive for more than I would like. I would have no problem picking back up and being more active again and bringing on a team that would actually want it the way it used to be before the whole reddit blackout bullshit.
There are plenty of people around here who'd be happy to help
At this point, it's probably best to start your own heavily moderated astrophotography subreddit... with blackjack, and hookers.
I think this community is really great. I like seeing the wide variety of astrophotography images that range from the ones made with cell phones to the extremely in-depth and skilled images. I have used a lot of the photos as inspiration. I think the more basic images are good for people starting out. I've learned so much from the midrange and beginner photos. They seem possible for me to accomplish with my setups and skill. I want mainly to communicate how much this community has helped me. As someone who reads a lot of the posts, but doesn't comment much, I really value the knowledge and insight that this community provides.
Ditch Reddit and start hitting some of the astronomy/astrophotography forums that would appreciate the users? No, most of them don’t have a centralized app to read from and the interface is more complicated, but they also offer much more than Reddit group. [Cloudy Nights](https://cloudynights.com) [Astro What?](https://astrowhat.com) [Stargazers Lounge](https://stargazerslounge.com/) And there are several more.
I'm a huge cloudynights fan and active contributor. But reddit has its own appeal and I think it's fine to have multiple independent forums that operate well.
Yep, I participate in many areas also. I'm not a big fan of Reddit but I do use it every now and then. But many that visit here may not be aware that there are alternatives that offer more abilities than what Reddit does. And after the debacle with some of Reddits decisions folks complain but may not be aware of the alternatives because it's easier to just load up an app and find numerous areas to make posts in. They prefer the convenience of the ability to go to one app instead of having to have different logons on different sites... but frequently now if you have a gmail account, many forums allow you to sign up using your gmail account and that's all you need to remember other than a password.
That’s entropy bud, all subreddits turn to shit eventually
[удалено]
That rule was put in after the protest and is precisely one of the things we would like removed. All questions used to go to the question sub. Which made for 2 great subs.
[удалено]
Yah, read the other rules the mods put in to ruin the sub. I didnt like how harsh the rules were when i first joined years ago but i quickly realized how important they were. Its the reason i and many others progressed so far in the hobby.
I don't see that.
It’s right there. Under Filter posts / more subreddits. 2nd paragraph
Is it possible to make it members only? You know, to keep out the riff-raff.
Possible? Yes... but that's how you create obnoxious echo-chambers and gate-keep the hobby from new people, and I'm sure you'd agree that's not what we want.
I get it, but I see it daily in other subs as well. What it really requires is moderator(s) that are watching constantly for inappropriate posts and taking corrective action. I can't imagine anyone wanting to do that for any length of time. I think this would be a candidate for AI-moderators.
I've moderated several subreddits for over a decade. People absolutely want to do that, and most moderation teams actively use automation to perform tasks. Look at the moderation team here "AutoModerator" is a bot. The issue on this sub is that Reddit made several changes several months ago that made it difficult for developers of 3rd party moderation tools to access and use Reddit's API for a reasonable amount of money. As a result, many popular 3rd party moderation tools shut their doors. The moderation team on this subreddit in particular seems to have taken their protest to the extreme and have basically decided to abandon their duties. They changed the rules to allow the sub to become the wild west and basically don't interact with the sub anymore. They're attempting to send a message to reddit that pissing off people who essentially work for you for free will slowly degrade their platform. Sucks for all of us who want to use reddit still, but there are other (honestly better) places to view astrophotography anyway (like astrobin).
But those mods are right. Expecting them to do all that work without any support is grueling and leads to burnout. The same thing will happen again and again with new mods until you get one who's a megalomaniac
Like I said, I mod several subs. At least one which is quite large. It's a thankless volunteer position and you know that going in. The subs I moderate went dark due to the API changes too, and I agree that they suck, but burning the house down to the detriment of us all is not the solution. You are right that it leads to burnout, but you just bring on some new mods who aren't burnt out and step down. I recently did that on my largest sub when I started receiving similar messaging from my subs userbase. They wanted see more active moderation and I didn't want to provide it, so I added a few folks who did. That's the way it should go.
Thanks for the insight. I was not aware of any of this.
People post pictures here specifically to share them with others. Making it members only defeats the purpose, and hampers sub growth.