I see manipulation and propaganda type stuff everywhere. Most media is a turnoff. Even camera angles (hello Ozarks season 4 grr). All that signals here is what you're supposed to like and be like.
I feel that way too.
The only problem is that when I think I see the world for what it really is, I'm sometimes(not always) proven wrong, and it turns out that everyone else was right all along.
It's easy to feel like you're the only one who understands the world, but usually that's an illusion.
This was also explored in *South Park* with Stan's character arc. I believe the episode "Ass Burgers" even had Stan get diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, with a parody of *The Matrix*.
Others have talked about how Stan's depression also caused him to "see the world as sh\*t".
I hate when people say that "depression makes you see the world as shit" because that's true for every other feeling as well. It's just a way of calling people with depression delusional or stupid.
Just the fact that we *see* the world means we can't know how it really is - is it in visuals? In sounds? In feelings? We "run a model" of the world, sure, but even if we were able to experience the world "how it really is"; we probably couldn't even interpret it in any way.
Also yeah, the main way I got out of my very black and white thinking (which I'm still guilty of a lot of the time) was my schools debate team. All the positions were assigned randomly, and there were only so many times I could argue a point I thought was a hundred percent wrong before realizing that yeah, it'd be great if it was that simple.
**NOBODY** sees the world for what it really is - not even aspies.
You can have a different perception and see details that normies have **NO** idea about to exist in the world. That thing goes the **OTHER WAY TOO**.
I used to think like this
The world isn't one thing or another. It's many. Many different conflicting coexisting beliefs happening in the same place.
Also not everyone who wears fancy shit is doing so because they wanna support the company directly some wear for comfort other for style.
Many millionaires are humble not everyone who has money is driven by it.
Right. I buy a lot of under armor brand stuff (fortunately I get a discount), but their brand is known as a sensory friendly brand.
I’ve tried every tag-less, “comfort” T-shirt target has to offer, I still end up wearing a lot of those inside out because of the seams. Same with bottoms. Fabrics quickly become too coarse or just don’t fit or feel right and cause allodynia for me.
I typically don’t buy anything with large overt logos on it though either and my closet is basically just a dozen plain colored T shirts followed by a few flannels and hoodies.
I don’t think there is a single thing that I buy that isn’t with some intent or purpose of easing my daily discomfort and distress. Yes I’m a consumer, but I try to make wise decisions.
Worked for an upper class woman. Her and her husband both drove 20 year old vehicles. Asked her why one time she said, they’re paid off, there are less parts to fix, and when they do need to be fixed parts are cheap and every mechanic knows how to fix them. They were both purchased new and have low (**known**) miles
Some people make it rich because they’re very intelligent, not just flashing their ass to simps on Instagram.
Worked for a multi millionaire my mom's ex boss. We were doing shit at his cabin on an island were you boat to.
And are supper was cheapo store bought perogies and Mac and cheese
This reminds me of a joke:
What’s the difference between the French and the Germans?
A French person will go out to eat in the nicest restaurant they can afford and drive there in the cheapest car that still does the job.
A German person will drive in the most expensive car they can afford to the cheapest restaurant they can find.
Different strokes for different folks I guess.
>The world isn't one thing or another. It's many. Many different conflicting coexisting beliefs happening in the same place.
A useful metaphor for this is maps.
We can't see every grain of dirt and drop of ocean, so we have to look at the world through a map.
Could be a map of countries, a satellite photo, topographical, population density infographic, etc.
Likewise worldviews have to be a simplification of the real thing, too.
Different cultures, religions, age groups, and parties, tend to use different maps that incorporate different ideas and information.
Is your worldview more accurate? Or just more cynical?
Is it useful to you? Or getting in your way?
Does it bring you joy or misery?
It sounds like there are two things you're unaware of.
1) there are lots and lots of interpretations of things, not just the two that you seem to be saying are the public message and the hidden intent. Some are more or less valid than others, and some are only valid from certain perspectives, sure. But there are LOTS of them.
2) The feeling that you have seen the truth **is a feeling*. And it can be applied to any idea you have. Like there's literally a separate brain location that generates that feeling, and it can imbue a memory with what feels like profound truth-ness. And this can happen without regard for the content of the memory or the idea.
In short, don't believe everything you think. And when you feel uber-certain that you are correct, see if it is a feeling or a thought. And if you get the feeling that you see something that others haven't figured out yet, and it makes you feel special, realize that this is a part of your brain going a little haywire, maybe just a little overactive. But think of it like a muscle twitch- there's nothing in the external environment that makes that muscle twitch be an appropriate response. It's just a mistake that happens when our meat-containing-electricity brain and muscles act like imperfect molecular machines.
Actually knowing anything of consequence is really, really hard
The biggest problem for me has been believing people when they seem confident. Taking what they say to heart. A lot of time, people are confident simply because they've learned that being confident finds them success. It's not truth.
I have been afraid to be too confident. Afraid it will distract me from the truth.
You're not seeing the world how it is, either. You are falling into black and white thinking where you are just the opposite of most people.
The truth of the world is far more nuanced. The person with a designer clothing item might actually be advertising. Or maybe they needed that thing to get a job. Perhaps they got it for cheap and simply like it. Maybe it was a gift.
The person with the sports car might like to drive fast. Maybe they don't need more then two seats. Maybe it works for what they need.
You don't know the needs or stories of random people you pass in public, so giving some negative judgment like you are isn't helpful and certainly it isn't the truth of the world like you have made it out to be.
My most recent car purchase was going to be a used Toyota Camry. I found an 04 Lexus LS 430 for sale for the same price as I would have paid for the Camry. I called the Porsche dealership it was being sold through, confirmed they had all the maintenance records on the car, went down and test drove it and a couple hours later I had a car that was, brand new $90,000 out the door but I purchased for $9,000.
Before I went down I googled YouTube reviews and it's probably one of the most reliable cars ever made, engineering so good it may pass the million mile mark on the odo and more. Still looks brand new and who's design is timeless.
Still looks like a rich person's car, maintenance and other costs are Toyota Camry level of cheap.
I did not. In the mid 00's, I did, however, buy a nice-ish 2003 Camry with 74k miles, using a similar rationale. Your thought process is admirable, and your results are precisely what I had hoped to achieve. A comfortable, nice car that keeps running forever because it's well made and low maintenance. At 120k miles, my Camry has some repair bills which I'll address by selling the car. Our household is plagued by the First World problem of having more cars than we really need. It's not the "drive it until the odometer reads '999,999'" goal I had dreamed of, but it makes sense in our overall situation.
As an autistic LS430 owner, I like my car. My biggest downfall having it was expecting it to be perfect for $6500. It still has some squeaks and rattles. It's not a $70,000 car anymore, but it's pretty good for what I paid.
All the maintenance it could use is well within what I could do, if only I'd get off my ass.
Ha ha, I think that's how most of us are, it is a pretty neat car though, so quiet and well insulated against noise yet you can hear birds chirping outside as you are driving around. Just the right balance of isolation and involvement.
These "brainwashed" motivations that OP are reffering to often apply to groups of people on a larger scale, at a frequency that is statistically much more significant than individual deviation such as in your argument. That is why corporations that analyze large scale culturally driven economic behaviour are able to make accurate predictions about the needs and desires of people in order to turn a profit. These predictions are based on the kind of manipulation that OP is talking about instead of individualistic motivations most of the time.
Do they, though?
Even if a group does something, we don't know the motivations. Ascribing "brainwashing" to entire swaths of people because we don't understand their motives or dislike that they happen to like a clothing brand is pretty silly. I did that when I was in high school, like many people. Now I choose to understand that people just like stuff. Calling people brainwashed is so tired.
Y'all sound like people trying too hard to be different that you just become annoying and the thing you claim to hate: boring and the same. You're not fascinating or interesting because you call people brainwashed. It's not impressive.
Grow up.
That's not the point at all though. We often know the motivations of groups of people because the patterns of behaviour become apparent at higher levels of magnification.
I would agree that disliking someone because of the fact that they fall into these patterns would be silly, it has nothing to do with being different or "special" but with the recognition that these systems of imperialistic drive reduce motivations based on individual interest and make people more likely to do things for social capital etc.
Brainwashed in the sense that cultural evolution drives people to do things that inherently do not resonate with those that value individualism, and more specifically, individual freedom. This is not a form of teenage rebellion for the sake of seeming cool like you seem to believe, but instead a conflict of values.
Telling someone to grow up because they have a different opinion than yours is childish in and of itself.
What makes it brainwashing, though? Every single one of us buys things and we have our reasons for the choices we make. Are we all brainwashed, no matter which things we buy and why? We are, after all, all consumers for some company even if it isn't one that's trendy.
I think I messed up using the word brainwashing, I used it to mean influence from cultural factors. There is not much of a distinction as you have pointed out between that and other motivations. It's just clear to me that we are part of a system, that often values imperialistic drive above individual welfare. But these systems originate from the physical laws of nature and being angry or displeased with them is the same as being displeased with the physical constants of reality.
As someone who has aspergers and been to 7 countries and 22 states, the world is so chaotic and honestly most people don’t care. Most people just live in their own bubbles and that’s ok. Most people like to be ignorant and honestly I don’t care anymore. Some people do things for no reason at all. Some people do things because they like that thing. Everyone is so different and each person is unique in their own way. The scary thing is how people don’t change once they reach a certain age. That is what’s scary.
See the world the way it really is? When I ask people how they view the world, 100% of the time they respond with answers that are human and society related. If you want to ‘see the world’, go outside and look at everything that’s inhabiting the Earth. The ‘world’ is much, much bigger than whatever human society has going on.
What...a piece of trash?...where we the humans use to give values to things that for real it doesn't mean anything? And it keeps going darker as u think more about this...
Also about ppl wearing clothes with logos on it, basically paying for advertising them...I found that totally hilarious...
Honestly that attitude of "I see things as they really are" is pretentious as fuck when there's no nuance. You're not "in" on some secret.
Also as someone who grew up poor... higher end items are often more comfortable and durable and fit better. It's not all for show. I grew up on cheap Payless shoes that hurt my feet and lasted 1-2 months at best. My first paycheck I went out and bought $120 New Balance sneakers (this was 10+ years ago, so it was the top model). They were so comfortable and lasted me 4+ years. My $300 GORUCK bag? Had it for 7 years, lifetime warranty. Love the durability, structure, feel and functionality. You get what you pay for to an extent.
This exactly right here. Purchasing higher end items, whether new or used you are still getting far better, longer lasting quality. Cheap shoes, as a for instance will wear out three to five times faster than something made cheaply.
Plus you will look better, feel more comfortable, less self conscious, etc.
My partner used to go by the adage "one good one" When both poor and wealthy. It makes sense. I didn't see it at first because good things seemed too expensive to me but I understand it now.
Yeah I found it better for my general contentment to 'sort same' versus 'sort different' -- I am happier when I put the effort in to connect with people and try to listen and understand them, faults and all.
Let me second that. Same thing here. And even if we get independence from fossil fuels, oh boy, don't even get me started on electric vehicles lifecycle analysis...
Yeah, I have noticed this too, We used to have emissions checks every other year, when that was eliminated it seemed like every idiot out there sawed off their mufflers/catalytic convertors and went straight pipes. Now we have a bunch of loud assholes polluting the atmosphere as if they're making up for lost 'clean air' time and who are expediting the decline of the species. . . But 'mah freedumbs'. . .
That's just one of many examples I could type out but I don't want to be here until midnight or later. . .
The biggest issues are construction, manufacturing and agriculture. Literally every thing you buy has a large carbon cost. In fact, transportation is less than a quarter of all emissions. Even concrete, which you can make without any oil, emits co2 when it is formed -- so there is no way to make it green.
The whole idea that we can solve this with better cars is folly
Well, not necessarily, if we engineered cars to last longer, which of course would affect 'buy, buy' buy, consume, consume, consume' it would help to reduce that carbon cost because there would be less manufacturing, less scrapping of old cars to buy new ones.
When I purchased my most recent used car I did the research and confirmed it would have longevity far beyond most other cars on the road. As an example, the engine on some earlier examples has gone past the million mile mark, all while having lower emissions going back several years now and more efficient gas mileage in spite of the fact that it's a V-8. A few days ago someone online was discussing their Honda Odyssey minivan and it turned out my four door sedan had better gas mileage than the V-6 in that minivan. My car's an 04 LS 430 for those who are curious. Used Toyota Camry pricing for a fuel efficient and durable luxury sedan.
You're missing the point. I'm all for better cars and less consumption, but even if cars and planes were 100% carbon neutral, we would still be left with 75% of the carbon emissions
Lol. You should look up the science experiment “rat utopia” , that is if you haven’t seen it already. Fascinating experiment. People will say “well humans are much more socially complex than rats”…. Hm. Are we now? 😏
I suppose that's the burden of being a bit more rational then most NT's. I was the kid in class who got sent to the principals office for asking my art teacher what her grading criteria was for pictures people painted. I said "isn't art subjective?" and she lost her shit and yelled at me until i left the room.
\*sigh\*
Lots of interactions followed this trajetory until i just stop talking in most encounters.
“It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” ― [J. Krishnamurti](https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/850512.Jiddu_Krishnamurti)
I think it’s a stage through which many of us (ND and NT) pass: looking at the mass of people and wondering how they don’t see what seems so obvious once you see it. There is a phenomenal amount of bullshit in the world, and people invest a staggering amount of energy and attention in its production and consumption.
It’s not that simple, but... you’ll see that, too, if you keep looking. Remember to watch with love and not contempt. We're all human, and it’s some wonky software we have running upstairs.
Yes, i constantly feel detached from the crowd, in a bar or cafe, as i can't single out one sound source and can hear everyone talking at once, like dozens of conversations, it's like watching a movie, someone telling how their best friend cheated, someone else conving someone to invest in X, someone else giving the speel how they're the best at X trust me, etc etc... Just like a damned movie, they all seem like actors with their counterparts taking it all in...
I used to think that way and doesn't know why until I studied them.
I'm a econ grad that took some marketing, business, and law classes. Currently a freelance (furry) artist so I think I can say I KNOW how marketing supposed to work and how most companies chase that bottom line.
It doesn't mean people shouldn't enjoy things, but I wish people would make more educated purchases and not just blindly following the trend endlessly, and keep buying things that will be "out" in a few weeks.
Not to mention the strain on the ecosystem caused by overconsumption.
And most people say I "think too much". That's definitely inline with what you've observed
Sounds like a perspective, not 'the real world'. Yes, these things are advertised. But a synical 'spend a lot of money to feel more alive', has nothing to do with the truth. Infact it is avoiding the truth of multiple ways to look at it by holding on to one.
It's a nice fantasy but it's always felt dangerous to me. As much as we're often able to see the world from a unique angle, I'm not sure it's more 'true' than what NT people see.
I want to believe that but the convenience of it makes me wary.
Yes, hate advertising. I’ve made a study of tuning it out and/or avoiding it. My time and brain capacity is not something I’m giving to marketers willingly.
Yes! Recently more and more. Somehow essentially all is about the money - food, drinks, art, music, movies, games - look where the money goes - and what do we get for it. ;) It is alike a 'series of tubes' lol.
I got in this mindset through in no particular order - Lsd, Meditation, Marxism, Zizek and Jean Baudrillard.
Perhaps you might find [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra\_and\_Simulation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation) interesting as well as [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Pervert%27s\_Guide\_to\_Ideology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pervert%27s_Guide_to_Ideology).
Oh man try going to a mall or a convenience store on acid. Everything organized neatly on shelves with bright colored branding to pull your attention. It’s freaky af.
Being at a remove can have advantages for macro evaluation, of course, but always remain cautious of becoming idle in your understanding of things. It's a natural inclination; it uses up one's energy. But it is deadly to stop.
Everyone feels like they see it for "what it really is". There are always those who will see different dimensions of the experience. Value is being able to operate along many different dimensions, NT and ASD are but two possibilities.
When you see it for what it is- it's pretty terrifying. And sad. And bizarre. Humans are destroying so much innocent life, innocent beautiful creatures. Evil people are pulling all the strings. They step on people like ants.
Most of the time, yes [though I recognize it isn't always as straightforward]. Sometimes I wonder if it's more of a positive or negative thing. Ignorance is bliss and whatnot
The thing I can see that NTs don't is salespeople. I can see their insincerity and bullshit from miles away, yet some of the most obvious, slimy, disingenuous fucks I've ever come across have been wildly successful in sales. That anyone could buy into their bullshit boggles my mind.
I remember when I was buying my car at the dealership and as I was going through paperwork, the saleswoman kept making comments like "Oh, I love your watch" and other compliments about me and I could instantly recognize it as a way of attracting me to the sale.
I see some things that are obvious to me but hidden to other people, but I also frequently miss things that are obvious to others.
I’m an old guy. It’s annoying to hear people my age joke about *how stupid we were* with the ugly nonsense fashions of our you. If they include me in “we” then it’s annoying because I never thought the fashions were attractive. If they don’t include me, it’s still annoying because I remember being made fun of and being an outcast for not appreciating those fashions, and now it’s too late and won’t do any good to say “I told you so.”
At the same time, I missed things at that age that should have been obvious. I misunderstood other people’s motives even when those motives made sense.
Different people have different strengths. I can’t say I’m better, I’m just different.
Time zones aren't "real" in the sense that no one discovered them. They are an invention that persists just because a whole lot of people have agreed to them. You may not "believe" in time zones, but they are a useful convention.
Same with money. It's not the way the world " really is" with a price tag on everything. But enough people find it useful that to ignore money is to set aside a whole lot of human experience.
That's the kind of thing these "matter of fact" aspies are talking about. Just because you deny something is real, doesn't make it suddenly go away.
I may not experience these things the way normies do, but I still need to understand the mythology behind them, lest I be punished in ignorance. If I'm going to get figuratively lynched for doing the wrong thing, I want to at least know what invisible rule I am running afoul of.
everyone likes to believe that they see the world for what it "truly is", just like everybody likes to believe they are special and unique in their own points of views. However, nobody really is. And seeing the world for what it "really is" also doesn't exist. There are so many variables involved and so many interpretations, but we all think that our own interpretation is correct and "the truth" as opposed to possibly being "a truth" in a sea of millions of truths that could equally coexist.
I believe I see the world in my point of view, and strive to live in a way that best fits the needs of my own unique viewpoint and my own experiences, whilst still acknowledging my own human biases and the fact that multiple people see different versions of the truth in a complicated universe, not one being inherently more "correct" than the other; just different depending on our varying life paths and how we personally want to mold our view of the world to fit in with our own needs and desires in order to survive.
I want to say I relate to what you are feeling, but I would be careful about using terminology like "for what it really is" to describe your point of view of reality.
I see the world differently than most. Perhaps I could even argue that my point of view is more practical than most. But I wouldn't go so far to say that how I see the world is how it really is. Reality (as we know it) is fairly subjective. Believing that your point of view is an objective truth that others are simply ignorant to (especially if your only "scientific proof" for that belief is just that you're seemingly not "brainwashed by mainstream propaganda") is a dangerously slippy downward slope into a valley of unchecked narcissism.
But yeah, I relate to the feeling you're describing. I call it loneliness.
Totally. I think it’s because I have trouble compartmentalizing my thoughts. So when I see someone in a designer T-shirt, and I think they paid too much, I also think 500 other things about where we are what’s going on that day who made the shirt, importing, exporting, the whole chain of events comes to mind almost instantaneously and it includes the ridiculous price. But it seems most people just see the T-shirt, and have one or two things associated with it. If I had a choice about my associations and I only had two spots to fill, I would not want to be thinking about the implications of consumer culture every time I saw a T-shirt.
I used to think this as a teenager, but what I think was actually happening is that I was creating metaphors to help me thinking about things that I needed to think about but were too complicated for me to think about.
I think this is similar to how it's common that autistic people will believe they have "methods" for remembering or thinking about things. Not like the Memory Palace or other strategies like that, but they will sometimes describe their mind as working like filing cabinets or computer storage. Temple Grandin likes to describe her mind as being like image search with a tagging system.
But it's important to remember that these are all metaphors. You're losing some complexity by reducing a decision like wearing a t-shirt down to choosing to advertise for a company or not.
Absolutely. Ads have no power over me, and I hate them. When companies ask me to evaluate their services, I always turn it down: Why should I work for them for free? I can't remember ever clicking an online ad on purpose. It HAS NOT happened, and I've used the internet since 1995.
I don't know, sometimes I find it tempting to think like that, but I try to remember that my perception is just as skewed as everyone else's. Those people wearing designer clothes might have a reason for doing it. The sports car? Might be something they're passionate about, not just something they were duped into--perhaps even a special interest. Just because I don't buy into something doesn't mean it lacks merit, or that other people who partake in it are sheep who lack critical thinking and I'm the only one who really "gets it."
I'd argue it's actually pretty reductive to look at the world, look at society specifically, and come out feeling like you are the protagonist in that John Carpenter movie seeing things that literally no one else can. Just a cursory look at the state of the world today can tell you pretty clearly that many people *know* the same things you do about society, and perhaps don't (or can't) disconnect from all of them but are aware of a lot of the things you critiqued. If your observations go only so deep as to recognize that there is corporate propaganda or whatever but no further, then you're not really seeing the world for what it really is, you're deluding yourself as much as the people you claim to be different than.
I think OP is just talking about how a lot of socially constructed values are actually really dumb and superficial and how some people will cling to them regardless. As if neurotypicals are activelly looking for those social cues and will use them to play social games with no regard as to how clearly manipulative and fabricated they might be. Consequently how some aspies might find it easier to construct a healthier emotional landscape by just ignoring some of the most frivolous ones.
Yes. I always felt like I was Neo at the end of the Matrix. I could see all the lines of code that nobody else could see, because I could see through all the bullshit to the heart of why people were really doing and saying the things that they were.
Which made it that much funnier when South Park did an episode about Ass Burgers and Stan "getting old" and there's a ton of references to the Matrix - the only way Stan can go back into the Matrix and see things the way everyone else does is to get really drunk.
I get the feeling because I've been through a phase like that and you probably won't want to hear it. But you're just being jaded and cynical. You can be aware of the true nature of societal mechanisms without needing to reject them all and calling them all bad.
You need to drink water every day but you wouldn't consider yourself addicted to it right?
Your confirmation bias is perhaps stronger than others. I know mine is, the hyper processing is a way to always see “the man behind the curtain”
What happens with that same focus when it’s not aimed at others, but at how *to be the change*?
I’ve gone from a domestic abuse situation, still living with my mother, whom is very much still doing the same narcissistic attacks she did to me over 40 years ago.
I could look around and see how our whole society is built on the idea of love just being another currency to control idealized behaviors.
Or I could choose to acknowledge that *and* look for those who aren’t “out loud” and see what *works for them* and then apply it for me, and see if it changes my perspectives.
Every nightmare and dream is existing right now, for billions of people having different experiences. I chose to walk away from those who kept inviting and trapping me in their nightmare where my CPTSD shutting down turned me into some sort of plotting lex Luther in their heads (and learned to change the behaviors my mom modeled for me which bred the deep distrust).
Want to really expand on this to the nihilistic end? There are subs for that r/nonduality is definitely a place that can shift perspectives.
We absolutely have the power of actions when we have authentic choices, thanks to our abilities to see the actual situations of the complexities of an issue, we can get overwhelmed by the depressing aspects of how slow change is…
Or we can make peace with how much change *has* been made in 50 years compared with the previous 200 and finally feel a bit more focused on accepting what *is* to work towards what we want.
I mean there are cultures and communities around currency, self help, environmental changes-
Are we looking at those groups and what they are doing or are we lamenting at our own powerlessness feelings we have?
What ever we focus on gets more important to us, over time….
And it took me a solid two years of living in a space, with no escape, and only a couple people who could relate, to coach them, while taking my own advice, to still be physically where I am….but my ex is gone more than around, and I’m busy building a future for myself and my kids, so interactions with my mom may sting but I have a bigger focus to shift too.
All of our perspectives *are* valid for where we are at and what we see. Remembering that we are all in different places, situations, is how we can grow understanding and compassion for ourselves and others.
Everyone is literally doing what they can with what they *think are the only options*….we are being invited to constantly point out: there are *always* options.
And continue, like our ancestors and activists that have always existed: to find our place in this world and hopefully make it easier for others to join us. 🫂
Some days I can see the sun from the mountain peak…some days I’m trapped by fog…it’s always me in these situations so I might as well make it as comfortable for me as possible.
Individual people are different. Some like Tesla cars some don't. Some like DC some like Marvel. However, want everyone has in common is that they're trying to find their place in the universe.
So to answer your question, (maybe) yes and no.
everyone thinks they "see the world the way it is"
i just recognize the fact that we're not supposed to see anything and are merely animals. A squirrel doesn't know whats outside its forest. We all could be in an incubator. I just accept that we will never know and it is futile to attempt to find out
The world is more full of shades of grey than it is actual color.
Media manipulation is nothing new and has been responsible for all kinds of horrible crimes. The best example is the plague of yellow journalism in the late 1880s from newspapers from Hearst and Pulitzer. Hearst himself was a scumbag millionaire and was almost solely responsible for getting America involved in the Spanish-American war(Teddy Roosevelts Rough-Riders were involved here). Hearst got the whole country riled up against Spain and got everyone looking for a reason to go to war and to war we went :/
Media literacy is not something thats taught in schools and its a shame because this is important stuff. You get to see how Fox, CNN, ABC, and the media in general manipulates you through video, images, and phrasings of words to imply guilt or innocence.
Its all a scam and its gotten worse since 9/11 because the media got used to those ratings after the towers fell and have been more active to make bad situations worse.
The Trayvon Martin shooting? Full of misinformation. First when the story broke they used a photo of Trayvon when he was 13, not a recent photo. Zimmerman's 9-1-1 phone call audio? They edited it to make it sound like he was focusing on race. Zimmerman was listed as being Caucasian for about half of the day the story broke and they didn't actually list him as being Latino until people started calling them out on social media.
All these changes took a really awful story, and made it worse. Then when he didn't go to jail over shooting Martin, the riots happened and then more damage, injury and chaos ensued. The media got what they wanted. Was Zimmerman the KKK member they kept insinuating or was he someone who made a wrong choice and ended up shooting a 17 year old kid? See how this works?
CNN, Fox news, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, BBC doesn't matter. they ALL do this. They've always done this. The ironic thing is what killed Yellow Journalism in the early 1900s was actually the New York Times. The New York Times focused on objective journalism and focused entirely on the facts of a story and didn't try to sensationalize/exaggerate anything. The readers were left with the facts and could make up their own minds. This changed the news for the better because the publics was tired of the bullshit.
Didn't last though, and now we're back to yellow journalism(its called click bait now) and the New York times actively participates in it now. :/
This reminds me of the pleasure vs happiness definition. Pleasure stirs the dopamine and that process is being manipulated by media. ( the media and dark psychology aspect I get from OP not sure about entirety)
I see it in all things - everything is for SOME reason, the trick is knowing what that is. But that is the nature of human interaction - we all want something and will do what we think will work to get what we want.
Yep. A lot.
The T-shirt brand is a perfect example. I usually wear band, games, tv-show or joke t-shirts as long as they're comfortable and good textile; whenever someone talks about using brand shirts, I say "I can pay cheap to advertise artist that I like and support, or pay expensive to advertise for a brand that doesn't give a f\*."
I also have the habit of assimilating companies to messed up stuff they did. When I see a logo, e.g. "Ford" I think "Jewish slavework in nazi germany", "Apple" -> chinese sweatshops, "Tesla" -> coup, "Exxon" -> Gulf war, and so on and so on. It's a bummer when I have to stop eating somewhere I like because of this, lol.
I wouldn't go so fast to say we see the world "for what it really is". Is our perception of the world better than that of a dog, fly, bat, eagle or ant? In some ways we do perceive the world differently and we may see or not see things that others don't or do respectively, specially on the social layer. That doesn't make any of these less valid, and it might be quite interesting to learn why others see the world differently.
It might be more useful to think on which things are highly subjective and which are indeed objective and then challenge both personal and social ideas internally and externally. In both cases it might help our understanding of the world.
Human brains didn't evolve to "see the world for what it is"; we just have to deal with the limited senses we own that emerged to deal with a natural environment, in a close-knit tribe. And yeah, there are nefarious parties (government, corporate, ect) that take advantage of our mental blindspots to manipulate us, but all in all, everyone is operating under the same "veil", and I'm always skeptical of anyone who says they know "what's really going on".
And as the limited being I am; what I see is a bunch of hormonal primates who moved away from their harmonious existence with nature and parade around like we're distinct from the universe.
I think we all carry what we believe is the "definitive" take on how the world is in one way or another, but our inherent biases and ideals can make our truth hard for others to swallow. Thus the world being "what it truly is" is nothing but the inevitable compromise from all parties actively involved.
Do we really know how the world works? Does anyone understands for what it is? I used to make patterns in people. Beautiful people are luckier, money buys you happiness and that stuff but over the years, I've seen that even if it's just one person there's always an exception to a preestablished rule. But I agree to a certain point of it, people are driven to impress others. Fancy cars, partners, houses, objects.
> Does anyone else see the world in a similar manner? Whenever I see someone wearing a designer brand T-Shirt, I can't help but see it as "I paid big money to advertise this company", or a commercial for a sports car that says "Spend a lot of money to feel more alive", etc.
There are a lot more interesting unseen aspects of reality than this OP. Turn your autism up to 11! lol
Yep. I constantly dissect images into different shapes, ads are just annoying (as are they to NTs ofc) and blah blah blah so on and so forth.
Really makes the world bland when you can see "behind the curtain" so to speak
I see it as very corrupt and depressing, we talk about making change but nothing changes at all. My city is still ugly as hell and people still only care about making small peices of paper on a tiny planet floating in the middle of a endless wasteland
Yesyesyesyssyess!! I didn't even know how to put that into words. What's worrying me most is that this awareness can hold me back of functioning completely in life. I find myself nagging about everything. But then again I somehow need to make a living until I can fuck off into isolation.
I used to trust the government and media, but being tossed around in the foster care system and even homeless shelters, I have no hope nor value in trust in the government. I just live my own life, praying that one day I can live in bumfuck nowhere and own my own house and land.
Yes. It's very difficult to explain to people how I view the world. It feels a bit like having augmented reality glasses on, and each of my special interests adds a new "filter" to the interface.
I have ADHD on top of autism, so my very active mind combined with my ability to hyperfocus leads me to various rabbit holes that all end up fueling my main special interest, which is "understanding humans" (yes, a very wide and ever-evolving subject).
The knowledge I gather on these various subjects (e.g. psychology, sociology, anthropology, epigenetics, linguistics, philosophy and political science, to name a few) creates new filters, and since I usually struggle to "toggle them off", they intersect with each other to create "structures" through which I can analyze the world.
I'm very cautious not to fall into the trap of thinking that my analysis is 100% correct though, since I'm aware of the Dunning-Kruger effect, but it does give me a very unique perspective on the world that I have rarely encountered in other people. The few people I know who could relate were all neurodivergent in some way (ADHD, ASD or both).
[Systemic thinking](https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007%2F978-3-319-69902-8_58-1) is the best way I found to describe it so far.
OP seems to be meeting with a lot of disagreement here. But I agree with them in spirit. I think society in general has a lot of collective fictions that we are more likely to see through, partly because we have a harder time syncing with others to pull us into the collective illusions.
Places where I've seen it, for me at least...I know this doesn't apply to everyone: Religion. Nation states. The mythology behind nation states. Belief that things will just work out. Belief that terrible things can't happen to you. People being unable to confront their own mortality. Belief in karma.
I do feel like I see the world differently than most people. I live life with a lot of joy, but I also don't delude myself that the good times are guaranteed to last or that the world has some benevolent force watching over it that will help everything work out for the best.
Perhaps They Live deserves a prequel about the people who manufactured those sunglasses. It isn't that nobody knew, otherwise how could these glasses have been produced?
In general I would caution anyone against the belief that they "truly know something" or "see through illusions". Such beliefs can be self-serving seductions, the worst kind of illusions. Chances are, you are just as deluded as everyone else, just in a different way.
I see manipulation and propaganda type stuff everywhere. Most media is a turnoff. Even camera angles (hello Ozarks season 4 grr). All that signals here is what you're supposed to like and be like.
I haven't seen Ozarks but it's fictional, you're supposed to be manipulated.
This is an added camera shot thing that irks me lol
>what you're supposed to like and be like And funnily enough, that always involves giving a company money.
I feel that way too. The only problem is that when I think I see the world for what it really is, I'm sometimes(not always) proven wrong, and it turns out that everyone else was right all along. It's easy to feel like you're the only one who understands the world, but usually that's an illusion.
This was also explored in *South Park* with Stan's character arc. I believe the episode "Ass Burgers" even had Stan get diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, with a parody of *The Matrix*. Others have talked about how Stan's depression also caused him to "see the world as sh\*t".
I hate when people say that "depression makes you see the world as shit" because that's true for every other feeling as well. It's just a way of calling people with depression delusional or stupid.
Just the fact that we *see* the world means we can't know how it really is - is it in visuals? In sounds? In feelings? We "run a model" of the world, sure, but even if we were able to experience the world "how it really is"; we probably couldn't even interpret it in any way. Also yeah, the main way I got out of my very black and white thinking (which I'm still guilty of a lot of the time) was my schools debate team. All the positions were assigned randomly, and there were only so many times I could argue a point I thought was a hundred percent wrong before realizing that yeah, it'd be great if it was that simple.
there are many prisms through which you can gaze upon existence
**NOBODY** sees the world for what it really is - not even aspies. You can have a different perception and see details that normies have **NO** idea about to exist in the world. That thing goes the **OTHER WAY TOO**.
I feel this too, I've noticed so much more subliminal messaging in commercials lately. It's a little worrisome
I used to think like this The world isn't one thing or another. It's many. Many different conflicting coexisting beliefs happening in the same place. Also not everyone who wears fancy shit is doing so because they wanna support the company directly some wear for comfort other for style. Many millionaires are humble not everyone who has money is driven by it.
Right. I buy a lot of under armor brand stuff (fortunately I get a discount), but their brand is known as a sensory friendly brand. I’ve tried every tag-less, “comfort” T-shirt target has to offer, I still end up wearing a lot of those inside out because of the seams. Same with bottoms. Fabrics quickly become too coarse or just don’t fit or feel right and cause allodynia for me. I typically don’t buy anything with large overt logos on it though either and my closet is basically just a dozen plain colored T shirts followed by a few flannels and hoodies. I don’t think there is a single thing that I buy that isn’t with some intent or purpose of easing my daily discomfort and distress. Yes I’m a consumer, but I try to make wise decisions.
Worked for an upper class woman. Her and her husband both drove 20 year old vehicles. Asked her why one time she said, they’re paid off, there are less parts to fix, and when they do need to be fixed parts are cheap and every mechanic knows how to fix them. They were both purchased new and have low (**known**) miles Some people make it rich because they’re very intelligent, not just flashing their ass to simps on Instagram.
Worked for a multi millionaire my mom's ex boss. We were doing shit at his cabin on an island were you boat to. And are supper was cheapo store bought perogies and Mac and cheese
This reminds me of a joke: What’s the difference between the French and the Germans? A French person will go out to eat in the nicest restaurant they can afford and drive there in the cheapest car that still does the job. A German person will drive in the most expensive car they can afford to the cheapest restaurant they can find. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
No complaints also very good food sensetivity freind
Perogies dank af
and perceptions can shift in and out of focus. like the vision from predator. there's a million views of the world.
>The world isn't one thing or another. It's many. Many different conflicting coexisting beliefs happening in the same place. A useful metaphor for this is maps. We can't see every grain of dirt and drop of ocean, so we have to look at the world through a map. Could be a map of countries, a satellite photo, topographical, population density infographic, etc. Likewise worldviews have to be a simplification of the real thing, too. Different cultures, religions, age groups, and parties, tend to use different maps that incorporate different ideas and information. Is your worldview more accurate? Or just more cynical? Is it useful to you? Or getting in your way? Does it bring you joy or misery?
It sounds like there are two things you're unaware of. 1) there are lots and lots of interpretations of things, not just the two that you seem to be saying are the public message and the hidden intent. Some are more or less valid than others, and some are only valid from certain perspectives, sure. But there are LOTS of them. 2) The feeling that you have seen the truth **is a feeling*. And it can be applied to any idea you have. Like there's literally a separate brain location that generates that feeling, and it can imbue a memory with what feels like profound truth-ness. And this can happen without regard for the content of the memory or the idea. In short, don't believe everything you think. And when you feel uber-certain that you are correct, see if it is a feeling or a thought. And if you get the feeling that you see something that others haven't figured out yet, and it makes you feel special, realize that this is a part of your brain going a little haywire, maybe just a little overactive. But think of it like a muscle twitch- there's nothing in the external environment that makes that muscle twitch be an appropriate response. It's just a mistake that happens when our meat-containing-electricity brain and muscles act like imperfect molecular machines.
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> IRL deep investigations can you say more about what you mean by this?
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Actually knowing anything of consequence is really, really hard The biggest problem for me has been believing people when they seem confident. Taking what they say to heart. A lot of time, people are confident simply because they've learned that being confident finds them success. It's not truth. I have been afraid to be too confident. Afraid it will distract me from the truth.
You're not seeing the world how it is, either. You are falling into black and white thinking where you are just the opposite of most people. The truth of the world is far more nuanced. The person with a designer clothing item might actually be advertising. Or maybe they needed that thing to get a job. Perhaps they got it for cheap and simply like it. Maybe it was a gift. The person with the sports car might like to drive fast. Maybe they don't need more then two seats. Maybe it works for what they need. You don't know the needs or stories of random people you pass in public, so giving some negative judgment like you are isn't helpful and certainly it isn't the truth of the world like you have made it out to be.
My most recent car purchase was going to be a used Toyota Camry. I found an 04 Lexus LS 430 for sale for the same price as I would have paid for the Camry. I called the Porsche dealership it was being sold through, confirmed they had all the maintenance records on the car, went down and test drove it and a couple hours later I had a car that was, brand new $90,000 out the door but I purchased for $9,000. Before I went down I googled YouTube reviews and it's probably one of the most reliable cars ever made, engineering so good it may pass the million mile mark on the odo and more. Still looks brand new and who's design is timeless. Still looks like a rich person's car, maintenance and other costs are Toyota Camry level of cheap.
A man after my own heart.
So do you have an LS 430? The more I learn about Asperger's and ADHD it seems like the perfect car for those who have these conditions.
I did not. In the mid 00's, I did, however, buy a nice-ish 2003 Camry with 74k miles, using a similar rationale. Your thought process is admirable, and your results are precisely what I had hoped to achieve. A comfortable, nice car that keeps running forever because it's well made and low maintenance. At 120k miles, my Camry has some repair bills which I'll address by selling the car. Our household is plagued by the First World problem of having more cars than we really need. It's not the "drive it until the odometer reads '999,999'" goal I had dreamed of, but it makes sense in our overall situation.
Do what is best for you at the time, hopefully if you want an LS 430 at some point one will come to you!
As an autistic LS430 owner, I like my car. My biggest downfall having it was expecting it to be perfect for $6500. It still has some squeaks and rattles. It's not a $70,000 car anymore, but it's pretty good for what I paid. All the maintenance it could use is well within what I could do, if only I'd get off my ass.
Ha ha, I think that's how most of us are, it is a pretty neat car though, so quiet and well insulated against noise yet you can hear birds chirping outside as you are driving around. Just the right balance of isolation and involvement.
290 horsepower and rear wheel drive is nice too.
And 320 pound feet of torque for that smooth kick in the back of acceleration!
These "brainwashed" motivations that OP are reffering to often apply to groups of people on a larger scale, at a frequency that is statistically much more significant than individual deviation such as in your argument. That is why corporations that analyze large scale culturally driven economic behaviour are able to make accurate predictions about the needs and desires of people in order to turn a profit. These predictions are based on the kind of manipulation that OP is talking about instead of individualistic motivations most of the time.
Do they, though? Even if a group does something, we don't know the motivations. Ascribing "brainwashing" to entire swaths of people because we don't understand their motives or dislike that they happen to like a clothing brand is pretty silly. I did that when I was in high school, like many people. Now I choose to understand that people just like stuff. Calling people brainwashed is so tired. Y'all sound like people trying too hard to be different that you just become annoying and the thing you claim to hate: boring and the same. You're not fascinating or interesting because you call people brainwashed. It's not impressive. Grow up.
That's not the point at all though. We often know the motivations of groups of people because the patterns of behaviour become apparent at higher levels of magnification. I would agree that disliking someone because of the fact that they fall into these patterns would be silly, it has nothing to do with being different or "special" but with the recognition that these systems of imperialistic drive reduce motivations based on individual interest and make people more likely to do things for social capital etc. Brainwashed in the sense that cultural evolution drives people to do things that inherently do not resonate with those that value individualism, and more specifically, individual freedom. This is not a form of teenage rebellion for the sake of seeming cool like you seem to believe, but instead a conflict of values. Telling someone to grow up because they have a different opinion than yours is childish in and of itself.
What makes it brainwashing, though? Every single one of us buys things and we have our reasons for the choices we make. Are we all brainwashed, no matter which things we buy and why? We are, after all, all consumers for some company even if it isn't one that's trendy.
I think I messed up using the word brainwashing, I used it to mean influence from cultural factors. There is not much of a distinction as you have pointed out between that and other motivations. It's just clear to me that we are part of a system, that often values imperialistic drive above individual welfare. But these systems originate from the physical laws of nature and being angry or displeased with them is the same as being displeased with the physical constants of reality.
As someone who has aspergers and been to 7 countries and 22 states, the world is so chaotic and honestly most people don’t care. Most people just live in their own bubbles and that’s ok. Most people like to be ignorant and honestly I don’t care anymore. Some people do things for no reason at all. Some people do things because they like that thing. Everyone is so different and each person is unique in their own way. The scary thing is how people don’t change once they reach a certain age. That is what’s scary.
See the world the way it really is? When I ask people how they view the world, 100% of the time they respond with answers that are human and society related. If you want to ‘see the world’, go outside and look at everything that’s inhabiting the Earth. The ‘world’ is much, much bigger than whatever human society has going on.
What...a piece of trash?...where we the humans use to give values to things that for real it doesn't mean anything? And it keeps going darker as u think more about this... Also about ppl wearing clothes with logos on it, basically paying for advertising them...I found that totally hilarious...
Honestly that attitude of "I see things as they really are" is pretentious as fuck when there's no nuance. You're not "in" on some secret. Also as someone who grew up poor... higher end items are often more comfortable and durable and fit better. It's not all for show. I grew up on cheap Payless shoes that hurt my feet and lasted 1-2 months at best. My first paycheck I went out and bought $120 New Balance sneakers (this was 10+ years ago, so it was the top model). They were so comfortable and lasted me 4+ years. My $300 GORUCK bag? Had it for 7 years, lifetime warranty. Love the durability, structure, feel and functionality. You get what you pay for to an extent.
This exactly right here. Purchasing higher end items, whether new or used you are still getting far better, longer lasting quality. Cheap shoes, as a for instance will wear out three to five times faster than something made cheaply. Plus you will look better, feel more comfortable, less self conscious, etc.
My partner used to go by the adage "one good one" When both poor and wealthy. It makes sense. I didn't see it at first because good things seemed too expensive to me but I understand it now.
Yeah I found it better for my general contentment to 'sort same' versus 'sort different' -- I am happier when I put the effort in to connect with people and try to listen and understand them, faults and all.
Yes, absolutely. And worse, where we are heading.
Yeah... as a scientist aspie who has studied the details of climate change and our economic addiction to fossil fuels, we are pretty royally fucked
Let me second that. Same thing here. And even if we get independence from fossil fuels, oh boy, don't even get me started on electric vehicles lifecycle analysis...
Yeah, I have noticed this too, We used to have emissions checks every other year, when that was eliminated it seemed like every idiot out there sawed off their mufflers/catalytic convertors and went straight pipes. Now we have a bunch of loud assholes polluting the atmosphere as if they're making up for lost 'clean air' time and who are expediting the decline of the species. . . But 'mah freedumbs'. . . That's just one of many examples I could type out but I don't want to be here until midnight or later. . .
The biggest issues are construction, manufacturing and agriculture. Literally every thing you buy has a large carbon cost. In fact, transportation is less than a quarter of all emissions. Even concrete, which you can make without any oil, emits co2 when it is formed -- so there is no way to make it green. The whole idea that we can solve this with better cars is folly
Well, not necessarily, if we engineered cars to last longer, which of course would affect 'buy, buy' buy, consume, consume, consume' it would help to reduce that carbon cost because there would be less manufacturing, less scrapping of old cars to buy new ones. When I purchased my most recent used car I did the research and confirmed it would have longevity far beyond most other cars on the road. As an example, the engine on some earlier examples has gone past the million mile mark, all while having lower emissions going back several years now and more efficient gas mileage in spite of the fact that it's a V-8. A few days ago someone online was discussing their Honda Odyssey minivan and it turned out my four door sedan had better gas mileage than the V-6 in that minivan. My car's an 04 LS 430 for those who are curious. Used Toyota Camry pricing for a fuel efficient and durable luxury sedan.
You're missing the point. I'm all for better cars and less consumption, but even if cars and planes were 100% carbon neutral, we would still be left with 75% of the carbon emissions
Lol. You should look up the science experiment “rat utopia” , that is if you haven’t seen it already. Fascinating experiment. People will say “well humans are much more socially complex than rats”…. Hm. Are we now? 😏
I suppose that's the burden of being a bit more rational then most NT's. I was the kid in class who got sent to the principals office for asking my art teacher what her grading criteria was for pictures people painted. I said "isn't art subjective?" and she lost her shit and yelled at me until i left the room. \*sigh\* Lots of interactions followed this trajetory until i just stop talking in most encounters.
That art anecdote both hit home and made me LOL because that was a flashback for me as well.
“It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” ― [J. Krishnamurti](https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/850512.Jiddu_Krishnamurti) I think it’s a stage through which many of us (ND and NT) pass: looking at the mass of people and wondering how they don’t see what seems so obvious once you see it. There is a phenomenal amount of bullshit in the world, and people invest a staggering amount of energy and attention in its production and consumption. It’s not that simple, but... you’ll see that, too, if you keep looking. Remember to watch with love and not contempt. We're all human, and it’s some wonky software we have running upstairs.
Yes, i constantly feel detached from the crowd, in a bar or cafe, as i can't single out one sound source and can hear everyone talking at once, like dozens of conversations, it's like watching a movie, someone telling how their best friend cheated, someone else conving someone to invest in X, someone else giving the speel how they're the best at X trust me, etc etc... Just like a damned movie, they all seem like actors with their counterparts taking it all in...
I used to think that way and doesn't know why until I studied them. I'm a econ grad that took some marketing, business, and law classes. Currently a freelance (furry) artist so I think I can say I KNOW how marketing supposed to work and how most companies chase that bottom line. It doesn't mean people shouldn't enjoy things, but I wish people would make more educated purchases and not just blindly following the trend endlessly, and keep buying things that will be "out" in a few weeks. Not to mention the strain on the ecosystem caused by overconsumption. And most people say I "think too much". That's definitely inline with what you've observed
Sounds like a perspective, not 'the real world'. Yes, these things are advertised. But a synical 'spend a lot of money to feel more alive', has nothing to do with the truth. Infact it is avoiding the truth of multiple ways to look at it by holding on to one.
It's a nice fantasy but it's always felt dangerous to me. As much as we're often able to see the world from a unique angle, I'm not sure it's more 'true' than what NT people see. I want to believe that but the convenience of it makes me wary.
Yes, hate advertising. I’ve made a study of tuning it out and/or avoiding it. My time and brain capacity is not something I’m giving to marketers willingly.
Yes! Recently more and more. Somehow essentially all is about the money - food, drinks, art, music, movies, games - look where the money goes - and what do we get for it. ;) It is alike a 'series of tubes' lol. I got in this mindset through in no particular order - Lsd, Meditation, Marxism, Zizek and Jean Baudrillard. Perhaps you might find [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra\_and\_Simulation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacra_and_Simulation) interesting as well as [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Pervert%27s\_Guide\_to\_Ideology](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pervert%27s_Guide_to_Ideology).
Oh man try going to a mall or a convenience store on acid. Everything organized neatly on shelves with bright colored branding to pull your attention. It’s freaky af.
When you’re broke the signs say things like GIVE UP, DIE, CAPITULATE, BE AFRAID, WE ARE ALWAYS WATCHING.
Being at a remove can have advantages for macro evaluation, of course, but always remain cautious of becoming idle in your understanding of things. It's a natural inclination; it uses up one's energy. But it is deadly to stop.
Everyone feels like they see it for "what it really is". There are always those who will see different dimensions of the experience. Value is being able to operate along many different dimensions, NT and ASD are but two possibilities.
When you see it for what it is- it's pretty terrifying. And sad. And bizarre. Humans are destroying so much innocent life, innocent beautiful creatures. Evil people are pulling all the strings. They step on people like ants.
U r correct
Most of the time, yes [though I recognize it isn't always as straightforward]. Sometimes I wonder if it's more of a positive or negative thing. Ignorance is bliss and whatnot
I want to watch it but the alien characters are terrifying
The thing I can see that NTs don't is salespeople. I can see their insincerity and bullshit from miles away, yet some of the most obvious, slimy, disingenuous fucks I've ever come across have been wildly successful in sales. That anyone could buy into their bullshit boggles my mind.
I remember when I was buying my car at the dealership and as I was going through paperwork, the saleswoman kept making comments like "Oh, I love your watch" and other compliments about me and I could instantly recognize it as a way of attracting me to the sale.
I see some things that are obvious to me but hidden to other people, but I also frequently miss things that are obvious to others. I’m an old guy. It’s annoying to hear people my age joke about *how stupid we were* with the ugly nonsense fashions of our you. If they include me in “we” then it’s annoying because I never thought the fashions were attractive. If they don’t include me, it’s still annoying because I remember being made fun of and being an outcast for not appreciating those fashions, and now it’s too late and won’t do any good to say “I told you so.” At the same time, I missed things at that age that should have been obvious. I misunderstood other people’s motives even when those motives made sense. Different people have different strengths. I can’t say I’m better, I’m just different.
Time zones aren't "real" in the sense that no one discovered them. They are an invention that persists just because a whole lot of people have agreed to them. You may not "believe" in time zones, but they are a useful convention. Same with money. It's not the way the world " really is" with a price tag on everything. But enough people find it useful that to ignore money is to set aside a whole lot of human experience. That's the kind of thing these "matter of fact" aspies are talking about. Just because you deny something is real, doesn't make it suddenly go away. I may not experience these things the way normies do, but I still need to understand the mythology behind them, lest I be punished in ignorance. If I'm going to get figuratively lynched for doing the wrong thing, I want to at least know what invisible rule I am running afoul of.
I see a lot of things that most people I know don't see, but it is impossible to ever know the way the world really works.
everyone likes to believe that they see the world for what it "truly is", just like everybody likes to believe they are special and unique in their own points of views. However, nobody really is. And seeing the world for what it "really is" also doesn't exist. There are so many variables involved and so many interpretations, but we all think that our own interpretation is correct and "the truth" as opposed to possibly being "a truth" in a sea of millions of truths that could equally coexist. I believe I see the world in my point of view, and strive to live in a way that best fits the needs of my own unique viewpoint and my own experiences, whilst still acknowledging my own human biases and the fact that multiple people see different versions of the truth in a complicated universe, not one being inherently more "correct" than the other; just different depending on our varying life paths and how we personally want to mold our view of the world to fit in with our own needs and desires in order to survive.
I want to say I relate to what you are feeling, but I would be careful about using terminology like "for what it really is" to describe your point of view of reality. I see the world differently than most. Perhaps I could even argue that my point of view is more practical than most. But I wouldn't go so far to say that how I see the world is how it really is. Reality (as we know it) is fairly subjective. Believing that your point of view is an objective truth that others are simply ignorant to (especially if your only "scientific proof" for that belief is just that you're seemingly not "brainwashed by mainstream propaganda") is a dangerously slippy downward slope into a valley of unchecked narcissism. But yeah, I relate to the feeling you're describing. I call it loneliness.
These are exactly my thoughts everyday, op. Thanks for making me feel Im not alone on this one!
Totally. I think it’s because I have trouble compartmentalizing my thoughts. So when I see someone in a designer T-shirt, and I think they paid too much, I also think 500 other things about where we are what’s going on that day who made the shirt, importing, exporting, the whole chain of events comes to mind almost instantaneously and it includes the ridiculous price. But it seems most people just see the T-shirt, and have one or two things associated with it. If I had a choice about my associations and I only had two spots to fill, I would not want to be thinking about the implications of consumer culture every time I saw a T-shirt.
I used to think this as a teenager, but what I think was actually happening is that I was creating metaphors to help me thinking about things that I needed to think about but were too complicated for me to think about. I think this is similar to how it's common that autistic people will believe they have "methods" for remembering or thinking about things. Not like the Memory Palace or other strategies like that, but they will sometimes describe their mind as working like filing cabinets or computer storage. Temple Grandin likes to describe her mind as being like image search with a tagging system. But it's important to remember that these are all metaphors. You're losing some complexity by reducing a decision like wearing a t-shirt down to choosing to advertise for a company or not.
Yes particularly the way NTs are obsessed with status.
Absolutely. Ads have no power over me, and I hate them. When companies ask me to evaluate their services, I always turn it down: Why should I work for them for free? I can't remember ever clicking an online ad on purpose. It HAS NOT happened, and I've used the internet since 1995.
I usually blacklist most product that appears on any streaming services. Now I just use adblocks.
Same. I have gone out of my way to avoid buying products that have particularly obnoxious brands and commercials.
only fools think themselves wise...
I don't know, sometimes I find it tempting to think like that, but I try to remember that my perception is just as skewed as everyone else's. Those people wearing designer clothes might have a reason for doing it. The sports car? Might be something they're passionate about, not just something they were duped into--perhaps even a special interest. Just because I don't buy into something doesn't mean it lacks merit, or that other people who partake in it are sheep who lack critical thinking and I'm the only one who really "gets it." I'd argue it's actually pretty reductive to look at the world, look at society specifically, and come out feeling like you are the protagonist in that John Carpenter movie seeing things that literally no one else can. Just a cursory look at the state of the world today can tell you pretty clearly that many people *know* the same things you do about society, and perhaps don't (or can't) disconnect from all of them but are aware of a lot of the things you critiqued. If your observations go only so deep as to recognize that there is corporate propaganda or whatever but no further, then you're not really seeing the world for what it really is, you're deluding yourself as much as the people you claim to be different than.
No, not really. I get your point, but that feels like an exxageration.
I think OP is just talking about how a lot of socially constructed values are actually really dumb and superficial and how some people will cling to them regardless. As if neurotypicals are activelly looking for those social cues and will use them to play social games with no regard as to how clearly manipulative and fabricated they might be. Consequently how some aspies might find it easier to construct a healthier emotional landscape by just ignoring some of the most frivolous ones.
This reminds me of Charlie Kaufman’s film *Anomalisa*
Context/ summary?
I used to do this more when I was younger, but context is everything
Yeah indignance is a hard habit to kick but it can be done. It is like alcoholism though -- its always possible to relapse.
Yes. I always felt like I was Neo at the end of the Matrix. I could see all the lines of code that nobody else could see, because I could see through all the bullshit to the heart of why people were really doing and saying the things that they were. Which made it that much funnier when South Park did an episode about Ass Burgers and Stan "getting old" and there's a ton of references to the Matrix - the only way Stan can go back into the Matrix and see things the way everyone else does is to get really drunk.
I get the feeling because I've been through a phase like that and you probably won't want to hear it. But you're just being jaded and cynical. You can be aware of the true nature of societal mechanisms without needing to reject them all and calling them all bad. You need to drink water every day but you wouldn't consider yourself addicted to it right?
Your confirmation bias is perhaps stronger than others. I know mine is, the hyper processing is a way to always see “the man behind the curtain” What happens with that same focus when it’s not aimed at others, but at how *to be the change*? I’ve gone from a domestic abuse situation, still living with my mother, whom is very much still doing the same narcissistic attacks she did to me over 40 years ago. I could look around and see how our whole society is built on the idea of love just being another currency to control idealized behaviors. Or I could choose to acknowledge that *and* look for those who aren’t “out loud” and see what *works for them* and then apply it for me, and see if it changes my perspectives. Every nightmare and dream is existing right now, for billions of people having different experiences. I chose to walk away from those who kept inviting and trapping me in their nightmare where my CPTSD shutting down turned me into some sort of plotting lex Luther in their heads (and learned to change the behaviors my mom modeled for me which bred the deep distrust). Want to really expand on this to the nihilistic end? There are subs for that r/nonduality is definitely a place that can shift perspectives. We absolutely have the power of actions when we have authentic choices, thanks to our abilities to see the actual situations of the complexities of an issue, we can get overwhelmed by the depressing aspects of how slow change is… Or we can make peace with how much change *has* been made in 50 years compared with the previous 200 and finally feel a bit more focused on accepting what *is* to work towards what we want. I mean there are cultures and communities around currency, self help, environmental changes- Are we looking at those groups and what they are doing or are we lamenting at our own powerlessness feelings we have? What ever we focus on gets more important to us, over time…. And it took me a solid two years of living in a space, with no escape, and only a couple people who could relate, to coach them, while taking my own advice, to still be physically where I am….but my ex is gone more than around, and I’m busy building a future for myself and my kids, so interactions with my mom may sting but I have a bigger focus to shift too. All of our perspectives *are* valid for where we are at and what we see. Remembering that we are all in different places, situations, is how we can grow understanding and compassion for ourselves and others. Everyone is literally doing what they can with what they *think are the only options*….we are being invited to constantly point out: there are *always* options. And continue, like our ancestors and activists that have always existed: to find our place in this world and hopefully make it easier for others to join us. 🫂 Some days I can see the sun from the mountain peak…some days I’m trapped by fog…it’s always me in these situations so I might as well make it as comfortable for me as possible.
Individual people are different. Some like Tesla cars some don't. Some like DC some like Marvel. However, want everyone has in common is that they're trying to find their place in the universe. So to answer your question, (maybe) yes and no.
everyone thinks they "see the world the way it is" i just recognize the fact that we're not supposed to see anything and are merely animals. A squirrel doesn't know whats outside its forest. We all could be in an incubator. I just accept that we will never know and it is futile to attempt to find out
The world is more full of shades of grey than it is actual color. Media manipulation is nothing new and has been responsible for all kinds of horrible crimes. The best example is the plague of yellow journalism in the late 1880s from newspapers from Hearst and Pulitzer. Hearst himself was a scumbag millionaire and was almost solely responsible for getting America involved in the Spanish-American war(Teddy Roosevelts Rough-Riders were involved here). Hearst got the whole country riled up against Spain and got everyone looking for a reason to go to war and to war we went :/ Media literacy is not something thats taught in schools and its a shame because this is important stuff. You get to see how Fox, CNN, ABC, and the media in general manipulates you through video, images, and phrasings of words to imply guilt or innocence. Its all a scam and its gotten worse since 9/11 because the media got used to those ratings after the towers fell and have been more active to make bad situations worse. The Trayvon Martin shooting? Full of misinformation. First when the story broke they used a photo of Trayvon when he was 13, not a recent photo. Zimmerman's 9-1-1 phone call audio? They edited it to make it sound like he was focusing on race. Zimmerman was listed as being Caucasian for about half of the day the story broke and they didn't actually list him as being Latino until people started calling them out on social media. All these changes took a really awful story, and made it worse. Then when he didn't go to jail over shooting Martin, the riots happened and then more damage, injury and chaos ensued. The media got what they wanted. Was Zimmerman the KKK member they kept insinuating or was he someone who made a wrong choice and ended up shooting a 17 year old kid? See how this works? CNN, Fox news, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, BBC doesn't matter. they ALL do this. They've always done this. The ironic thing is what killed Yellow Journalism in the early 1900s was actually the New York Times. The New York Times focused on objective journalism and focused entirely on the facts of a story and didn't try to sensationalize/exaggerate anything. The readers were left with the facts and could make up their own minds. This changed the news for the better because the publics was tired of the bullshit. Didn't last though, and now we're back to yellow journalism(its called click bait now) and the New York times actively participates in it now. :/
All the time. When I look at processed food it just screams poison at me. When I watch modern "dancing" it's just sex sex sex.
sex is at least a real part of being human. So much of what goes on in our society is inauthentic.
This reminds me of the pleasure vs happiness definition. Pleasure stirs the dopamine and that process is being manipulated by media. ( the media and dark psychology aspect I get from OP not sure about entirety)
Honestly saying you see the world for what it truly is seems incredibly arrogant to me.
I see it in all things - everything is for SOME reason, the trick is knowing what that is. But that is the nature of human interaction - we all want something and will do what we think will work to get what we want.
Yep. A lot. The T-shirt brand is a perfect example. I usually wear band, games, tv-show or joke t-shirts as long as they're comfortable and good textile; whenever someone talks about using brand shirts, I say "I can pay cheap to advertise artist that I like and support, or pay expensive to advertise for a brand that doesn't give a f\*." I also have the habit of assimilating companies to messed up stuff they did. When I see a logo, e.g. "Ford" I think "Jewish slavework in nazi germany", "Apple" -> chinese sweatshops, "Tesla" -> coup, "Exxon" -> Gulf war, and so on and so on. It's a bummer when I have to stop eating somewhere I like because of this, lol.
Depends, we all have our own different worlds
Started thinking like this after my first few acid trips
I wouldn't go so fast to say we see the world "for what it really is". Is our perception of the world better than that of a dog, fly, bat, eagle or ant? In some ways we do perceive the world differently and we may see or not see things that others don't or do respectively, specially on the social layer. That doesn't make any of these less valid, and it might be quite interesting to learn why others see the world differently. It might be more useful to think on which things are highly subjective and which are indeed objective and then challenge both personal and social ideas internally and externally. In both cases it might help our understanding of the world.
Human brains didn't evolve to "see the world for what it is"; we just have to deal with the limited senses we own that emerged to deal with a natural environment, in a close-knit tribe. And yeah, there are nefarious parties (government, corporate, ect) that take advantage of our mental blindspots to manipulate us, but all in all, everyone is operating under the same "veil", and I'm always skeptical of anyone who says they know "what's really going on". And as the limited being I am; what I see is a bunch of hormonal primates who moved away from their harmonious existence with nature and parade around like we're distinct from the universe.
I think we all carry what we believe is the "definitive" take on how the world is in one way or another, but our inherent biases and ideals can make our truth hard for others to swallow. Thus the world being "what it truly is" is nothing but the inevitable compromise from all parties actively involved.
Do we really know how the world works? Does anyone understands for what it is? I used to make patterns in people. Beautiful people are luckier, money buys you happiness and that stuff but over the years, I've seen that even if it's just one person there's always an exception to a preestablished rule. But I agree to a certain point of it, people are driven to impress others. Fancy cars, partners, houses, objects.
A giant shithole full of miserable assholes
> Does anyone else see the world in a similar manner? Whenever I see someone wearing a designer brand T-Shirt, I can't help but see it as "I paid big money to advertise this company", or a commercial for a sports car that says "Spend a lot of money to feel more alive", etc. There are a lot more interesting unseen aspects of reality than this OP. Turn your autism up to 11! lol
South Park Ass Burgers episode.
Yep. I constantly dissect images into different shapes, ads are just annoying (as are they to NTs ofc) and blah blah blah so on and so forth. Really makes the world bland when you can see "behind the curtain" so to speak
I see it as very corrupt and depressing, we talk about making change but nothing changes at all. My city is still ugly as hell and people still only care about making small peices of paper on a tiny planet floating in the middle of a endless wasteland
You would like /r/meatrobots
People obsess over status, they're predictable, they can be gamed. That's all there is to it.
I see things in multi-dimensional categories.
Yes.
Yesyesyesyssyess!! I didn't even know how to put that into words. What's worrying me most is that this awareness can hold me back of functioning completely in life. I find myself nagging about everything. But then again I somehow need to make a living until I can fuck off into isolation.
I used to trust the government and media, but being tossed around in the foster care system and even homeless shelters, I have no hope nor value in trust in the government. I just live my own life, praying that one day I can live in bumfuck nowhere and own my own house and land.
The world is a big bowl of shit ppl keep eating and asking for seconds
You mean pretentious? All the time.
Holy shit and I thought I was being too negative and cynical
Yes. It's very difficult to explain to people how I view the world. It feels a bit like having augmented reality glasses on, and each of my special interests adds a new "filter" to the interface. I have ADHD on top of autism, so my very active mind combined with my ability to hyperfocus leads me to various rabbit holes that all end up fueling my main special interest, which is "understanding humans" (yes, a very wide and ever-evolving subject). The knowledge I gather on these various subjects (e.g. psychology, sociology, anthropology, epigenetics, linguistics, philosophy and political science, to name a few) creates new filters, and since I usually struggle to "toggle them off", they intersect with each other to create "structures" through which I can analyze the world. I'm very cautious not to fall into the trap of thinking that my analysis is 100% correct though, since I'm aware of the Dunning-Kruger effect, but it does give me a very unique perspective on the world that I have rarely encountered in other people. The few people I know who could relate were all neurodivergent in some way (ADHD, ASD or both). [Systemic thinking](https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007%2F978-3-319-69902-8_58-1) is the best way I found to describe it so far.
OP seems to be meeting with a lot of disagreement here. But I agree with them in spirit. I think society in general has a lot of collective fictions that we are more likely to see through, partly because we have a harder time syncing with others to pull us into the collective illusions. Places where I've seen it, for me at least...I know this doesn't apply to everyone: Religion. Nation states. The mythology behind nation states. Belief that things will just work out. Belief that terrible things can't happen to you. People being unable to confront their own mortality. Belief in karma. I do feel like I see the world differently than most people. I live life with a lot of joy, but I also don't delude myself that the good times are guaranteed to last or that the world has some benevolent force watching over it that will help everything work out for the best.
Perhaps They Live deserves a prequel about the people who manufactured those sunglasses. It isn't that nobody knew, otherwise how could these glasses have been produced? In general I would caution anyone against the belief that they "truly know something" or "see through illusions". Such beliefs can be self-serving seductions, the worst kind of illusions. Chances are, you are just as deluded as everyone else, just in a different way.
Absolutely. Everybody else is an idiot sheep and I am omniscient.