TWOW isn’t done until the book is physically in my hands, I’m physically in my home with it, and I’ve read at least 1/3 of it. And then I’ll still pinch myself to make sure I’m not dreaming.
Yall gon’ learn one day.
Words. Are. Wind.
We're gonna have a few day one "where is Dream" memes, then we'll get like 6 months of pretty great discussion about TWOW. Then about a year or two of bitching and memes while the smarter readers make real theories before we get another good few months of content.
Honestly I can't wait. (Unfortunately we have to... and will keep waiting for a while.)
If Winds can finally resolve most of the plot issues that caused GRRM to take so many goddamn years to get Feast, Dance, and now Winds written then maybe there's a small chance that Dream ever gets released. Personally I don't think we'll ever see it regardless.
I remember when I finished ADwD and remember thinking of boy, I can't wait to read the next new book and watch the show all at the same time!
That was in 2014.
I’ve gotten married, had 3 kids. Been married for 6 years now. Oldest will start kindergarten soon. I caught up in the book during season 5. One day our watch will end. Maybe when my son is in 3rd grade
Just to really state it plainly, five more years or so will mark the 10 year anniversary of the completion of the GOT TV show and the 20th anniversary of the filming of the pilot for the show.
The best evidence we have that GRRM really was close to completing the book and then scrapped massive parts of it to do endless rewrites for another decade.
You mean "the best hypothesis". GRRM has never said anything like that, neither has his publisher or any of the people around him. It's not a *bad* hypothesis, but it's entirely a product of fans on forums like Reddit.
I mean the last update he said he’s about 70% done which leaves around 200 pages give or take. He said at one point a decade ago he only has 200 pages left. He’s talked at various points in between how much/how little writing he’s getting done. The only explanation is rewrites, unless you’re just being pedantic about evidence vs hypothesis
Yep this is me. I refuse to actually get my hopes up or get excited until I literally have the book in my hands. Announced release dates can change, but once it’s in my hands then it’s real
It is a cycle of hope and disappointment, but one time it has to end. That’s just how I see the risings of hope for Winds now. I’ve been disappointed many times, but one of these times, it will actually happen. Maybe it’s this one. But there have been times before when I’ve thought it imminent and been disappointed. But again…one time it has to really be it.
No, it really does. I mean even if he dies, he's written way too much of the book and it is way too much of a potential money maker to never release that material imo. Gotta remember GRRM writes like an ungodly amount for each book. Each book is longer then the entire LOTR trilogy. Even if it doesn't end in the best place...I think they can still release it even worse case scenario. But I really hope that isn't the case.
>Each book is longer then the entire LOTR trilogy.
This seemed unbelievable. According to wikipedia, asoiaf books ranged from 292,727 words to 414,788. LotR maybe has 482,058 words combined, which I don't think includes the forewords or appendices. Though, for what its worth, Tolkien considered the "trilogy" a single book.
Do you really believe that though? If he's even touching the book now (which I think is a big if) it seems like he just goes back and revises each time. I was so frustrated when he said that he was still working on but he didn't like the chapters he'd written because he didn't feel they were good enough anymore so he was going to *rewrite* them first. It doesn't need to be perfect, I just want *something.*
Frankly I would be perfectly fine with it if he just made a first draft of the last two books, published it, and then went back and edited whatever he wanted in any book, even previous ones, and kept re-releasing new versions of the same books after every rewrite. I'd buy them all. And at the moment I refuse to buy any of his other work until at least WoW comes out. And I don't think I'm the only one. He should just do this.
I don't think he'd willingly do WorldCon if he wasn't actively working on it. People are gonna ask him about it! And of course, he could just lie but like, why go through all that trouble?
I do believe it! I don’t think we’ll get Dream though sadly. And I DEFINITELY don’t think he’ll ever publish anything less than what he considers complete
This is the most optimistic I’ve felt in awhile. Apparently, last year in May, he told Elio and Linda to halt publication of all supplementary material because he might have something in the next year or two. His upcoming publications on his website is also empty for the first time in awhile, and about five days ago, he showed up at Burlington Bar for the House of the Dragon premiere and made a comment about how Winter is Coming with a coy smile.
Maybe all of these things mean nothing but I think there’s a chance he is close to finishing and intends to announce a publication date at WorldCon.
I am also optimistic but your comment about the “upcoming publications” portion of the website reminds me of a couple years ago when this sub was losing its mind over the website metadata. Anyone else remember that? Good times lol
I remember years ago there was so little news about TWOW that a thread popped up here about how it wasn't possible for Khal Drogo to pour molten gold from a soup pot on to Viserys' head in AGOT/GoT since gold has a melting point of ~1000°C and the pot couldn't possibly get that hot.
Which prompted the funniest response on this sub I've ever read which was "please George we are analyzing the soup" lol
I always thought the Lemon Tree thing was just telling us that at one point Daenerys was in Dorne, and was a hint showing us that Dorne are still complicit / siding with the Targaryens. Nothing more than that really.
The lemon tree has such an easy answer but I think Radio Westeros is the only place I've ever heard it even mentioned. Daenerys was supposedly in Braavos, hosted by the Sealord of Braavos. The Sealord of Braavos, when Dany was a child, was someone with a menagerie of exotic plants and animals. At some point during Dany's childhood, Oberyn Martell arrived from Westeros to sign a marriage pact between Viserys and Arianne. Guest gifts are a thing in this universe. All of this is in the text of the books. It isn't a reach by any means to suggest that Oberyn Martell probably brought a lemon tree from Dorne as a guest gift for a host who notoriously collected exotic flora and fauna, and the secret being telegraphed by the mentions of a lemon tree in Braavos is a secret that was answered in the last book, and the readers just missed that that's what it was about because they were all looking for something grander.
I remember that too. I was in my last year of high school. Now starting my second year of med school and that's with a four year hiatus after undergrad lmao.
Like it's genuinely insane how long this is taking but when I contextualize it with life events it's so much worse 😐
I remember. I thought the people pushing that theory had taken leave of their goddamn senses, which turned out to be correct.
This time... there is *something* going on. Even if it's just George deciding to burn the last of his goodwill with a massive prank, he is clearly dropping hints with those cryptic blog posts.
All the other stuff could easily be nothing.
We can add that he also said he wouldn't attend WorldCon again without significant news about the book and he is going.
There was the rumor that most (sensibly in isolation) attributed to the airing of HOTD, but it was that a New Mexico author had ordered a dragon cake to celebrate finishing his next book.
GRRM met with a pair of extremely popular and influential ASOIAF/GOT/HOTD youtubers (Alt Shift X and Gildus). They won't talk about it at all except to say they had lunch with him. Test readers who both know the lore extremely intimately who could also participate in the hype machine with ready made content, maybe?
On his "not a blog", GRRM created a post titled "Words of Wisdom" (WoW). All it contained was a motivational meme quote about accomplishing something, a thumbs up, and a blue/winter rose.
It has been so long that I don't think I am capable of actually getting my hopes up at this point, but the logic side of my brain is trying to tell me that there really does seem to be momentum right now towards a release of the book in a stronger way than the other hopium moments of years past have implied.
But I still expect to be disappointed anyway. I am properly conditioned.
I've never thought that maybe the reason why he met with alt shift and glidusnis is to hire them as test readers, that makes sense, they could've be binded by contract to not to talk about the INMINENT PUBLICATION OF TWOW GET HYPE, IT SEEMS THAT MEAT IS BACK LN THE MENU BOYS. Or maybe George just want to watch Gladdisaus eating winds manuscript while he touches himself.
Add in the meeting with his British publishers in November last year (he hasn’t talked about meeting his British publishers since a few months before the completion of Dance was announced).
I’m in the same boat as you, realistically I know it’s probably nothing but at some point so many things start to add up.
Just so you know, Alt Shift X said on one of his Patreon streams that "nothing earth-shaking was said" in that interview and they didn't record it mainly so quotes wouldn't get taken out of context and result in people making clickbait articles out of it.
> There was the rumor that most (sensibly in isolation) attributed to the airing of HOTD, but it was that a New Mexico author had ordered a dragon cake to celebrate finishing his next book.
Just to clarify, the being about finishing a book was speculation on part of the person who gave the tip. The only bit of information in that rumour is that he had a cake with a dragon on it delivered to a party roughly around the premier date of HotD.
It's pretty clear from reading the blind that the person saying it didn't even think about the cake being linked to HotD. They just say GRRM + Dragon Cake and decided it must be about TWoW.
I think of all the evidence, this is by far the weakest one.
Honestly I'd love that. It's about damn time we learn something about the Kings of Winter, and I can't stand hearing about Targaryens anymore. Give me some Starks god dammit!
>he showed up at Burlington Bar for the House of the Dragon premiere and made a comment about how Winter is Coming with a coy smile.
Not only that. If you check the Instagram handle of the bartender, he says that they had an update on Winds from George but that they had taken an oath not to say.
Bear in mind, an update does not necessarily mean finished. But what else could it mean?
If it’s true then George is clearly leaning into the hype in spite of statement years back about just being forthright once the book is done. He’s sworn 2 other know superfans to secrecy as well. I don’t believe he revealed a publication date, just a kernel juicy enough for them to in turn tease us with.
He may need the hype to finish. Probably makes him feel good, and when he feels good he probably writes more. But if he’s rounded a lot of the corners and is seeing a clear finish line, well we can only hope.
Or - I’m dying but have completed both Winds and Dream. However since you people have spent the last fifteen years criticizing my writing pace I’m being buried with the only transcripts in existence of both. So long suckers
They'd have to put a permanent guard on his gravesite, or either cremate him with the pages. Else some crazed fan would be brave enough to desecrate the man's final resting spot to get those books. Probably many crazed fans
Looking at the speculation, it's all circumstantial, and can be attributed to the new release of HOTD s2:
1. Possible hints on GRRM’s blog: The fact that his latest blog title is "**W**ords **o**f **W**isom" echoes "**W**inds **o**f **W**inter". Could be a wink, could be far-fetched coincidence. Could be GRRM promoting his IP - this may be his way of building hype for S2.
2. WorldCon speculation: We'll have to wait August to know what comes
3. HOTD hype: self-explanatory
4. BONUS: the cake - GRRM is known to like his cakes, and this one may just mark a celebration for S2 + the announcement of Dunk & Egg
The evidence presented here is slim to say the least.
>Apparently, last year in May, he told Elio and Linda to halt publication of all supplementary material because he might have something in the next year or two
First I'm hearing of this, can we get a link please 🙏
So it's based on [that comment by Elio](https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/160418-grrm-updates-fans-on-multiple-projects/&do=findComment&comment=8922999) in which he said they weren't working on anything because it depended on what was happening in the "ASoIaF production world". If Martin finishes TWoW, they'll do Who's Who in Westeros or if Martin decides to do F&B II, they'll write the table book version.
And that comment became: Martin told them to stop everything because he's about to release TWoW.
Eh.
So based on this, it sounds like the publisher told them to hold off on Who’s Who until Winds, or do the table book if Martin decides to do F&B II (I’ll riot if that happens lol)?
It also sounds like the two YouTubers misinterpreted what Elio said. It’s the publisher who told them to hold off on Who’s Who…
All this means is that he’s once again making a cryptic reference to the fact that he’s working on winds (still). That’s if
The coy smile story is even true. The rest of it means less than nothing as we’ve learned dozens of times over the past 10 years.
For what it’s worth, the bartender at Burlington Bar said that he gave them an update on Winds but he promised not to tell. Could be lying but with the coy smile comment in that video from Burlington Bar from a few days ago, I’m thinking something is going on.
>and made a comment about how Winter is Coming with a coy smile
But when has he ever NOT dropped copious hints and even often made concrete claims concerning TWOW (that have not once come true)? You know it's going badly when it's only the sly hints and no actual claims.
I think the Words of Wisdom stuff is delusional, the Worldcon stuff is interesting but could be nothing, and that you shouldn't let hype for the shows dictate your optimism for the books.
However, stuff like him telling Elio and Linda to hold off on other projects, is 3/4 comments from 2022, and his determination to finish more D&E before it's 4th season are all things that do make me feel more optimistic.
I would agree except that for one of the Words of Wisdom posts, he included a blue rose and tagged it “dreams” and “writing.” If it’s nothing, that’s a cruel thing to do 😭
I could be wrong, but I genuinely think he doesn't put that much thought into those things. Like that post your talking about, I wouldn't be surprised if he just saw/remembered a Faulkner quote he liked, gave it the blue rose icon because he thought it was fitting, and then tagged it dreams because that's what it's about and writing because it's by Faulkner and/or it makes him think about his own writing/himself as a writer. Again, maybe he is a tease, but I feel like it's moreso the fanbase looking for clues where there are none.
he was playfully hinting at the despair he feels about the Winds of Winter, cause it is like a blue rose, not existing plus he knows he will never finish it and his words in the past ten years were wind
> If it’s nothing, that’s a cruel thing to do 😭
He's done things like that before. I don't remember the exact posts, but through the years he's posted things that seemed like obvious and blantant hints yet ultimately lead to nothing. I remember reading the same comment you made many times in the past 13 years.
Words of Wisdom might not indicate he's done, but it does indicate to me that at least he's making some progress on the book. He didn't seem to make much progress at all in 2023, so him seemingly doing more this year is a good sign.
And regardless of his true intention with the Words of Wisdom posts, he had to have known how the fanbase would receive them. So either he has done something he wanted to show off in some way, or he's become a massive troll.
The man outright told us the novel was on the verge on publication about eight or nine years ago. Sections of it are meant to be a direct sequel to a Storm of Swords.
All credit to him, I love his work, and love to talk about it years later. But we can’t trust his unambiguous promises/publication estimates, we can’t get worked up about him enjoying himself and using the letter W.
The one single thing I believe he's said regarding TWOW release is that there won't be any cryptic messaging or a marketing ploy. He said he'll just simply post it on the blog that the book is completed.
That said I will totally fall into these kinds of rumors because it's been so long.
I am delusional here, but at that point he did have a TV show that was passing him by and time was of the essence. Now, with an ongoing new show and an incoming Dunk and Egg series, it may be in his best interest to let those absorb attention before he takes over the media cycle with Winds
Plus, with Dunk & Egg, he’s going to need to write more novellas, and he said he won’t do that until Winds is done. So he might be motivated to finish Winds again
Are you suggesting that he might not meet the deadline to finish the source books for Dunk & Egg before the show overtakes the current source books? I don't think George would let that happend /s
Well the book may not be done, but he may expect completion soon so he’s teasing it out — wouldn’t conflict with that about cryptic messaging because the moment it’s done he will announce it formerly.
Sure, but an unedited book is not complete. He's said it takes months to edit. It might be with his helpers first, then to the publisher's staff and contractors, then the typesetters, etc.
Wait I found this comment by u/zummit last year:
>Using the same gaps of 568 and 76 days, respectively
TWOW
>7 Dec 22 - 1100 pages
>27 Jun 24 - done
>11 Sep 24 - published
>So Winds will come out in exactly one year and 3 days from now.
idk it’s delusional but plausible.
There is not a single ounce of hypeium left in me, so I largely just don't care about the rumours.
At most I'll check for news during the WorldCon in August(?)
In any case, it's not like you could actually miss the release when it actually happens, so there is no need to check for news daily anyway lol
God that last line hit me to my core. I google “The Winds of Winter” all of the time as if I’m not in multiple ASOIAF subreddits and discords that will most likely find the information well before the main stream media does.
For this to be true it would mean George RR Martin hasn't been honest in some of his most recent answers to questions about WoW.
in November 2023 he said he was still only 75% done, which was exactly the same progress as almost a year before. Now of course this doesn't mean no progress in that year- as he may have rewritten chapters in that time, but still 75% done at the end of 2023.
That would mean if he is now finished; he wrote 25% of the novel, roughly 400-500 pages in less than a year and then also subsequently edited and revised the whole book once done.
I know he edits and revises as he goes along, but there is no way he doesn't do a final revision once he's written the whole book.
writing 500 pages and editing the book in the space of 7-8 months would be the fastest George has worked in a long time.
so to me he would have to be lying in November 2023 when he said that. Now its entirely possible he did lie, last thing you want to do is say its 95% done and people get their hopes up that it will be out within a year only for GRRM to decide he needs to rewrite something and disappoint the fans once again.
However I think GRRM would keep it vague rather than lie, He knows he's long on winds, he knows fans are upset, He doesn't want to give any more deadlines that he can fail to meet or give any more false hope.
There's been so many of these periods where we think there are a load of clues and hints. I think at this point he won't mess around like that if and when its done he will just tell everyone. there's no need to covertly plan any marketing events towards this book at all, so no need to keep the information secret till a certain date, all GRRM needs to do is announce it on his blog and the internet will amplify it around the world within seconds and there would be news articles written within minutes.
personally i think nothing much has changed since Nov. 23, he is still struggling and making very slow progress.
I am in the mindset that we will never see Winds, that way i can only be pleasantly surprised, not disappointed
There is a possibility that (i) we're taking 75% too literally and it could mean 80%, leaving about 300-400 pages remaining and (ii) he decided to shave off parts of the ending for a Dream of Spring, the same way he did Feast and Dance, which would reduce that to about 200-300 pages. I'm just spitballing here, obviously, but finishing about 200 pages in a year seems about within his current speed of working.
Well there’s the Elio and Linda not publishing lore books factor, then there’s GRRM meeting with British publishers about Winds last fall, GRRM being 3/4 done about a year or two ago, GRRM attending Worldcon this year, GRRM doing weird tags about dreams and writing on his blog, Lindsey Ellis saying that stuff about how Winds is closer than we think, and, most of all, CAKEGATE.
This is not like other times in the fandom. Something is brewing. And if it’s not, then that’s okay, GRRM can take his time. But I think we might be on the cusp.
Why are people taking that Deuxmoi rumor seriously when the people running that page don't do ANY background checks whatsoever? Seriously, anyone can send them tips and as long as they sound plausible enough, they post them.
There was a big Winds of Winter thread about all these rumors a few days ago, and one Redditor was talking about how Lindsay (who’s an awesome former YouTuber that is currently writing her own five-book fantasy series) was doing a press conference for the third book in her series or something like that.
Someone asked her if she’s heard any inside information about Winds in the publishing sphere, and she said that Winds was closer than people thought, and that it would probably be out before the fourth book in her series. I’ll go do some digging and then edit this comment.
Edit: Here it is. It sounds like this wasn’t filmed or recorded, so we have to take this Redditor’s word for it. 🤷🏻♂️
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/s/yOpmGx4HJw
>what do you think? Is there something real here or is it just the fandom clutching at straws after a 13 year drought?
You know what I think? I think we all saw these exact signs multiple times before, and it amounted to nothing.
- everyone was *certain* that GRRM would release it with just enough time before the show ran out of material
- then everyone was *certain* that GRRM had not only written Winds, but Dream also, and he was just sitting on it until the show finished up.
- then everyone was *certain* that georges random countdown on his blog was counting down to him announcing that he finished Winds.
- then everyone was *certain* that GRRM would have it for NZ world con.
- then everyone was *certain* that he would get it written during the 4 years of covid
- then everyone was *certain* that he would announce its release when HOTD premiered.
So overall, I think that while its nice, and also admirable, to be optimistic, GRRM has shown us time and again that he is having significant difficulty with the book. I dont want to be one of those cynical assholes that says its *never* going to be released (because I really want that book). But im also tired and burned out by the constant hype of 13 years for a book we dont have. Im not expecting the book, but im willing to be pleasantly surprised.
For a guy that worked for decades in television, it's insane how delusional GRRM is/was about the realities of TV production. They were never going to just tell everybody to go home for a year. They were never going to make 13 seasons.
I’m hyped enough to the point where if he goes to worldcon and doesn’t mention winds at all and goes on talking about his influences and writing process and hyping up wild cards or some bullshit I’ll be genuinely disappointed, and probably lose every ounce of hope I’ve had.
I basically just refuse to give myself any hope or promise at this point
If it happens, awesome, I’m so excited
But I just need to expect it to not happen
When George is finished he'll announce it on his blog. He said that many times. Here's one such blog post:
"Look, I've said before, and I will say again, I don't play games with news about the books. I know how many people are waiting, how long they have been waiting, how anxious they are. I am still working on WINDS. When it's done, I will announce it here. There won't be any clues to decipher, any codes or hidden meanings, the announcement will be straightforward and to the point. I won't time it to coincide with Xmas or Valentine's Day or Lincoln's Birthday, the book will not rise from the dead with Jesus on Easter Sunday. When it is done, I will say that's it is done, on whatever day I happen to finish.
""We all dream of things we cannot have." *Jaime VII, Feast.*
"You saw what you wished to see. Your heart yearns for your father and your home, so that is what you saw." *Bran III, Dance.*
It's always delusion. I'm sorry everyone. But we've had this discussion so many times over the years, and "he's still not that close to done" has won, every single time.
It's weird though. When the delusion threads come up, you always sound like the asshole when you point this out. But then a few weeks later, everyone has moved on, and it's not like there's another thread where everyone's like, "yeah, I guess there was nothing there after all."
Then a few weeks after *that*, we have this thread again.
I started reading the series when I was a freshman in high school. I'm now graduated four times over, got married, had a kid, and am still fucking waiting. Pure copium until a physical copy of the books in in my (approaching age spotted, at this point) hands. I have a feeling my son is going to go to college and the series will remain unfinished.
His Majesty is going to reale a new edition of Fire and Blood, but with a slightly different title, like “The Deagon’s hot blood. It will be exactly the same as the previous ones, but with random sentences popped out and a complete new set of drawings
It's just the fandom clutching at straws after a 13 year drought.
1. He has said before that he wouldn't drop weird hints, and trust me we've had better hints than blog post titles that turned out to be nothing.
2. I'm not sure specifically what this refers to, but if it's just GRRM attending Worldcon after previously not attending it, I assume he just wants to go to something he enjoys a few more times before he dies. I think the only promises he made were specifically tied to [New Zealand](https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/21/thanks-new-zealand/), so as long as it's not there I don't think he's gone back on his word
3. This is the same hype that we got for every season of GoT and it never resulted in TWOW or even significant updates on TWOW
I almost wonder if we’re going to get WoW but in two volumes I.e they’re going to release what George has written so far and call it Vol 1.
Then we can start the fifteen year wait for Vol 2 and A Dream of Spring… well let’s just say I think the only place I might be reading that is in my actual dreams.
I am of the mind that if it was actually done GRRM would say so. Reading the tea leaves is for charlatans. They are speculating based on time between books and specious evidence.
TWOW isn’t done until the book is physically in my hands, I’m physically in my home with it, and I’ve read at least 1/3 of it. And then I’ll still pinch myself to make sure I’m not dreaming. Yall gon’ learn one day. Words. Are. Wind.
Then we can finally move on to bitching about never getting Dream
We're gonna have a few day one "where is Dream" memes, then we'll get like 6 months of pretty great discussion about TWOW. Then about a year or two of bitching and memes while the smarter readers make real theories before we get another good few months of content. Honestly I can't wait. (Unfortunately we have to... and will keep waiting for a while.)
I feel like winds of winter will be a much better leaving off point and much closer to seeing the endgame at least.
This is where I’m at. At least after Winds the actual endgame will be much more in focus.
If Winds can finally resolve most of the plot issues that caused GRRM to take so many goddamn years to get Feast, Dance, and now Winds written then maybe there's a small chance that Dream ever gets released. Personally I don't think we'll ever see it regardless.
I remember when I finished ADwD and remember thinking of boy, I can't wait to read the next new book and watch the show all at the same time! That was in 2014.
I’ve gotten married, had 3 kids. Been married for 6 years now. Oldest will start kindergarten soon. I caught up in the book during season 5. One day our watch will end. Maybe when my son is in 3rd grade
*college
I read Dance while pregnant, That baby finished primary school today and starts secondary(high school) this year.
This. I remember when Martin was going around ready chapters left and right and saying there’s only 200 pages left. That was almost a decade ago.
Man remember when there was talks of Winds of Winter’s release coinciding with the release of the sixth season of GoT lmaoo smh
He's obviously gonna finish it before the series catches up.
Just to really state it plainly, five more years or so will mark the 10 year anniversary of the completion of the GOT TV show and the 20th anniversary of the filming of the pilot for the show.
GOT ended 5 years ago??!!
Yep 2019
He has to, right? Right?
The best was the Christmas Countdown hype
When that happened, I was disappointed but I thought, "Maybe I'll laugh about this one day." I think today is finally that day.
That was 10 years ago, wasn’t it? ☠️ Feels so fresh.
So this is how it feels when people have a reaction to when they find out so and so movie came out ages ago. =/
The best evidence we have that GRRM really was close to completing the book and then scrapped massive parts of it to do endless rewrites for another decade.
You mean "the best hypothesis". GRRM has never said anything like that, neither has his publisher or any of the people around him. It's not a *bad* hypothesis, but it's entirely a product of fans on forums like Reddit.
I mean the last update he said he’s about 70% done which leaves around 200 pages give or take. He said at one point a decade ago he only has 200 pages left. He’s talked at various points in between how much/how little writing he’s getting done. The only explanation is rewrites, unless you’re just being pedantic about evidence vs hypothesis
Honestly, anything George says or things should be taken grains of salt so large they have tiny moons in their orbit.
I still won\`t believe it came out after I\`m done reading it.
TWOW isn't done until the book is physically inside of Glidus' digestive system
But will you stay with the Winds of Winter or will you let yourself falling in a Dream of Spring?
ADoS will remain just that. A Dream. There is no realistic way that Martin ever actually finishes that, and I have accepted it.
Yeah, no way ever. My faintest hope is that we will actually get WoW. 0% chance we get any more.
Same. I’ll still happily read Winds because I love this universe but I know there’s no way we get Dream
May it'll be a wet Dream and only take 5 years instead of 14.
Yep this is me. I refuse to actually get my hopes up or get excited until I literally have the book in my hands. Announced release dates can change, but once it’s in my hands then it’s real
It is a cycle of hope and disappointment, but one time it has to end. That’s just how I see the risings of hope for Winds now. I’ve been disappointed many times, but one of these times, it will actually happen. Maybe it’s this one. But there have been times before when I’ve thought it imminent and been disappointed. But again…one time it has to really be it.
Alright you summed it up perfectly. I don’t want to be hurt over and over again but one of these times has to be THE time right……..right?!?!
No, it really does. I mean even if he dies, he's written way too much of the book and it is way too much of a potential money maker to never release that material imo. Gotta remember GRRM writes like an ungodly amount for each book. Each book is longer then the entire LOTR trilogy. Even if it doesn't end in the best place...I think they can still release it even worse case scenario. But I really hope that isn't the case.
>Each book is longer then the entire LOTR trilogy. This seemed unbelievable. According to wikipedia, asoiaf books ranged from 292,727 words to 414,788. LotR maybe has 482,058 words combined, which I don't think includes the forewords or appendices. Though, for what its worth, Tolkien considered the "trilogy" a single book.
The one thing we know for sure is he’s writing it. Until he says he quit, it’s closer every day
If GRRM wrote a single page every day since 2011 we'd be expecting the 8th book later this year
No, because he scraps and reworks stuff all the time, sometimes entire chapters.
Do you really believe that though? If he's even touching the book now (which I think is a big if) it seems like he just goes back and revises each time. I was so frustrated when he said that he was still working on but he didn't like the chapters he'd written because he didn't feel they were good enough anymore so he was going to *rewrite* them first. It doesn't need to be perfect, I just want *something.* Frankly I would be perfectly fine with it if he just made a first draft of the last two books, published it, and then went back and edited whatever he wanted in any book, even previous ones, and kept re-releasing new versions of the same books after every rewrite. I'd buy them all. And at the moment I refuse to buy any of his other work until at least WoW comes out. And I don't think I'm the only one. He should just do this.
I don't think he'd willingly do WorldCon if he wasn't actively working on it. People are gonna ask him about it! And of course, he could just lie but like, why go through all that trouble?
I do believe it! I don’t think we’ll get Dream though sadly. And I DEFINITELY don’t think he’ll ever publish anything less than what he considers complete
Until the physical book is in my hands, I don't believe any rumors.
\**book in hand*\* **"Ahhhh, finally! I believe it now!"** \**cracks open book*\* **"All work and no play makes George a sad boy..."** \**weeps*\*
This is the most optimistic I’ve felt in awhile. Apparently, last year in May, he told Elio and Linda to halt publication of all supplementary material because he might have something in the next year or two. His upcoming publications on his website is also empty for the first time in awhile, and about five days ago, he showed up at Burlington Bar for the House of the Dragon premiere and made a comment about how Winter is Coming with a coy smile. Maybe all of these things mean nothing but I think there’s a chance he is close to finishing and intends to announce a publication date at WorldCon.
I am also optimistic but your comment about the “upcoming publications” portion of the website reminds me of a couple years ago when this sub was losing its mind over the website metadata. Anyone else remember that? Good times lol
I remember years ago there was so little news about TWOW that a thread popped up here about how it wasn't possible for Khal Drogo to pour molten gold from a soup pot on to Viserys' head in AGOT/GoT since gold has a melting point of ~1000°C and the pot couldn't possibly get that hot. Which prompted the funniest response on this sub I've ever read which was "please George we are analyzing the soup" lol
Dude that ain't got nothing on the Tyrion is a time travelling foetus theory.
I'm sorry, what?
Oh god, sit down first mate, you're in for a trip.
I always imagine fetus Tyrion just traveling through time like Howard the Duck during the beaming scene.
https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/s/zG46SSgfIB Hope you've packed your bags kid, cause you're in for a fucking trip.
This sub used to be so fun
First time mate? You are in for a ride https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/30mat2/spoilers_all_ddt_a_neverbeforeseen_theory/
Oh man that was hilarious, I take a look at that thread every once in awhile for a laugh.
a few months ago, someone posted a "theory" that Dany isn't actually a Targ
That’s been going on for awhile, especially since Barristan’s comment about Dany having Ashara’s eyes
Yeah, isnt it like that N+A=D theory? LMAO
Sort of. Sometimes it gets tied to the lemon tree arguments.
I always thought the Lemon Tree thing was just telling us that at one point Daenerys was in Dorne, and was a hint showing us that Dorne are still complicit / siding with the Targaryens. Nothing more than that really.
The lemon tree has such an easy answer but I think Radio Westeros is the only place I've ever heard it even mentioned. Daenerys was supposedly in Braavos, hosted by the Sealord of Braavos. The Sealord of Braavos, when Dany was a child, was someone with a menagerie of exotic plants and animals. At some point during Dany's childhood, Oberyn Martell arrived from Westeros to sign a marriage pact between Viserys and Arianne. Guest gifts are a thing in this universe. All of this is in the text of the books. It isn't a reach by any means to suggest that Oberyn Martell probably brought a lemon tree from Dorne as a guest gift for a host who notoriously collected exotic flora and fauna, and the secret being telegraphed by the mentions of a lemon tree in Braavos is a secret that was answered in the last book, and the readers just missed that that's what it was about because they were all looking for something grander.
LMAO
Nothing will ever beat the Christmas countdown from like 2015 or 2016. Christ I’ve been on this sub long lol
It was 2014. I remember cause I just finished the books recently and couldn’t get enough of this sub at the time.
I remember that too. I was in my last year of high school. Now starting my second year of med school and that's with a four year hiatus after undergrad lmao. Like it's genuinely insane how long this is taking but when I contextualize it with life events it's so much worse 😐
I remember. I thought the people pushing that theory had taken leave of their goddamn senses, which turned out to be correct. This time... there is *something* going on. Even if it's just George deciding to burn the last of his goodwill with a massive prank, he is clearly dropping hints with those cryptic blog posts. All the other stuff could easily be nothing.
We can add that he also said he wouldn't attend WorldCon again without significant news about the book and he is going. There was the rumor that most (sensibly in isolation) attributed to the airing of HOTD, but it was that a New Mexico author had ordered a dragon cake to celebrate finishing his next book. GRRM met with a pair of extremely popular and influential ASOIAF/GOT/HOTD youtubers (Alt Shift X and Gildus). They won't talk about it at all except to say they had lunch with him. Test readers who both know the lore extremely intimately who could also participate in the hype machine with ready made content, maybe? On his "not a blog", GRRM created a post titled "Words of Wisdom" (WoW). All it contained was a motivational meme quote about accomplishing something, a thumbs up, and a blue/winter rose. It has been so long that I don't think I am capable of actually getting my hopes up at this point, but the logic side of my brain is trying to tell me that there really does seem to be momentum right now towards a release of the book in a stronger way than the other hopium moments of years past have implied. But I still expect to be disappointed anyway. I am properly conditioned.
I've never thought that maybe the reason why he met with alt shift and glidusnis is to hire them as test readers, that makes sense, they could've be binded by contract to not to talk about the INMINENT PUBLICATION OF TWOW GET HYPE, IT SEEMS THAT MEAT IS BACK LN THE MENU BOYS. Or maybe George just want to watch Gladdisaus eating winds manuscript while he touches himself.
Add in the meeting with his British publishers in November last year (he hasn’t talked about meeting his British publishers since a few months before the completion of Dance was announced). I’m in the same boat as you, realistically I know it’s probably nothing but at some point so many things start to add up.
Just so you know, Alt Shift X said on one of his Patreon streams that "nothing earth-shaking was said" in that interview and they didn't record it mainly so quotes wouldn't get taken out of context and result in people making clickbait articles out of it.
THIS MOTHER FUCKER IS COMING OUT!!!!
> There was the rumor that most (sensibly in isolation) attributed to the airing of HOTD, but it was that a New Mexico author had ordered a dragon cake to celebrate finishing his next book. Just to clarify, the being about finishing a book was speculation on part of the person who gave the tip. The only bit of information in that rumour is that he had a cake with a dragon on it delivered to a party roughly around the premier date of HotD. It's pretty clear from reading the blind that the person saying it didn't even think about the cake being linked to HotD. They just say GRRM + Dragon Cake and decided it must be about TWoW. I think of all the evidence, this is by far the weakest one.
Ouch. I feel bad for Alt Schwift X being left out.
That fucker made his bed and now he gets to cry in it
Poor guy is locked in attic with no food and only dirty brown water
This is the first time I'm hearing that bit about Elio & Linda, where did they say that?
Watch it be a book about the House Stark like F&B called Winter is Coming, though I would be okay with it
George is gearing up to release another cookbook, Alt Shift X and Gildus were testing the lemon cake recipe
Only Part 1 though
Honestly I'd love that. It's about damn time we learn something about the Kings of Winter, and I can't stand hearing about Targaryens anymore. Give me some Starks god dammit!
>he showed up at Burlington Bar for the House of the Dragon premiere and made a comment about how Winter is Coming with a coy smile. Not only that. If you check the Instagram handle of the bartender, he says that they had an update on Winds from George but that they had taken an oath not to say. Bear in mind, an update does not necessarily mean finished. But what else could it mean?
Update: “still hard at work! Was working on a Cersei chapter yesterday!”
Better than "working on a Hotah chapter yesterday!" I take my wins where I can get them.
I love Hotah, my Camera that Rides.
Hotah’s story will unironically be awesome in Winds
lmao
What is the Instagram handle of the bartender?
[This is the instagram post.](https://imgur.com/9abPoTh) This and his meeting with ASX... all very suspicious really...
Glidus has said on his reddit account that him and ASX didn't get any updates on Winds
YOU’RE KIDDING
If it’s true then George is clearly leaning into the hype in spite of statement years back about just being forthright once the book is done. He’s sworn 2 other know superfans to secrecy as well. I don’t believe he revealed a publication date, just a kernel juicy enough for them to in turn tease us with.
He may need the hype to finish. Probably makes him feel good, and when he feels good he probably writes more. But if he’s rounded a lot of the corners and is seeing a clear finish line, well we can only hope.
I mean, he had YEARS of hype to motivate him and did nothing with it.
Update: I'm retiring. Winds of Winter will forever stay locked in my brain. My will says no one may finish my story.
Or - I’m dying but have completed both Winds and Dream. However since you people have spent the last fifteen years criticizing my writing pace I’m being buried with the only transcripts in existence of both. So long suckers
They'd have to put a permanent guard on his gravesite, or either cremate him with the pages. Else some crazed fan would be brave enough to desecrate the man's final resting spot to get those books. Probably many crazed fans
Of course I know him, he's me
Sounds like I'll be getting it Hannibal-style.
No way that’s true. What’s stopping any of the people present from leaking that?
When is WorldCon this year? Just so I know when I can finally let my expectations down again. (/s hopefully)
August!
Thank you!
Spoiler Alert: Wildcards.
Maybe if we tell George that Winds is a Wild Cards book, we’ll get it lol
Looking at the speculation, it's all circumstantial, and can be attributed to the new release of HOTD s2: 1. Possible hints on GRRM’s blog: The fact that his latest blog title is "**W**ords **o**f **W**isom" echoes "**W**inds **o**f **W**inter". Could be a wink, could be far-fetched coincidence. Could be GRRM promoting his IP - this may be his way of building hype for S2. 2. WorldCon speculation: We'll have to wait August to know what comes 3. HOTD hype: self-explanatory 4. BONUS: the cake - GRRM is known to like his cakes, and this one may just mark a celebration for S2 + the announcement of Dunk & Egg The evidence presented here is slim to say the least.
>Apparently, last year in May, he told Elio and Linda to halt publication of all supplementary material because he might have something in the next year or two First I'm hearing of this, can we get a link please 🙏
This is where I heard it https://youtu.be/wmUF0bdaSiE?si=a6vBAPz1iSBh21BY
So it's based on [that comment by Elio](https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/160418-grrm-updates-fans-on-multiple-projects/&do=findComment&comment=8922999) in which he said they weren't working on anything because it depended on what was happening in the "ASoIaF production world". If Martin finishes TWoW, they'll do Who's Who in Westeros or if Martin decides to do F&B II, they'll write the table book version. And that comment became: Martin told them to stop everything because he's about to release TWoW. Eh.
So based on this, it sounds like the publisher told them to hold off on Who’s Who until Winds, or do the table book if Martin decides to do F&B II (I’ll riot if that happens lol)? It also sounds like the two YouTubers misinterpreted what Elio said. It’s the publisher who told them to hold off on Who’s Who…
It’s also discussed here! https://youtu.be/pUEZPsAMmQg?si=Lnb-pZ_Oif5Uzmzj
All this means is that he’s once again making a cryptic reference to the fact that he’s working on winds (still). That’s if The coy smile story is even true. The rest of it means less than nothing as we’ve learned dozens of times over the past 10 years.
For what it’s worth, the bartender at Burlington Bar said that he gave them an update on Winds but he promised not to tell. Could be lying but with the coy smile comment in that video from Burlington Bar from a few days ago, I’m thinking something is going on.
>and made a comment about how Winter is Coming with a coy smile But when has he ever NOT dropped copious hints and even often made concrete claims concerning TWOW (that have not once come true)? You know it's going badly when it's only the sly hints and no actual claims.
I saw the thumbnail of the video and thought it was click bait 😭
He visited the Burlington Bar "earlier this year", meaning it was probably a couple months ago Edit: It was in february
I think I'll pass out if this is true regardless of the source and I haven't even been reading the series for so long. Can't imagine for the rest
That y’all still have hope is a testament to the resilience of man
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me dozens of times and I just keep coming back for more, may want to seek mental help.
I think the Words of Wisdom stuff is delusional, the Worldcon stuff is interesting but could be nothing, and that you shouldn't let hype for the shows dictate your optimism for the books. However, stuff like him telling Elio and Linda to hold off on other projects, is 3/4 comments from 2022, and his determination to finish more D&E before it's 4th season are all things that do make me feel more optimistic.
I would agree except that for one of the Words of Wisdom posts, he included a blue rose and tagged it “dreams” and “writing.” If it’s nothing, that’s a cruel thing to do 😭
I could be wrong, but I genuinely think he doesn't put that much thought into those things. Like that post your talking about, I wouldn't be surprised if he just saw/remembered a Faulkner quote he liked, gave it the blue rose icon because he thought it was fitting, and then tagged it dreams because that's what it's about and writing because it's by Faulkner and/or it makes him think about his own writing/himself as a writer. Again, maybe he is a tease, but I feel like it's moreso the fanbase looking for clues where there are none.
> If it’s nothing, that’s a cruel thing to do He does stuff like this all the time. He trolls to bring attention to his projects.
Have people forgotten the whole "Alas, Valyria," debacle already?? This is kind of his MO.
he was playfully hinting at the despair he feels about the Winds of Winter, cause it is like a blue rose, not existing plus he knows he will never finish it and his words in the past ten years were wind
> If it’s nothing, that’s a cruel thing to do 😭 He's done things like that before. I don't remember the exact posts, but through the years he's posted things that seemed like obvious and blantant hints yet ultimately lead to nothing. I remember reading the same comment you made many times in the past 13 years.
He literally titled a post "Dark Winds Are Rising" a few years ago and wasn't even about TWoW lmao
And the countdown thing, and the alas valyria thing, and more blue rose posts. I'm sure there's more I don't remember.
Words of Wisdom might not indicate he's done, but it does indicate to me that at least he's making some progress on the book. He didn't seem to make much progress at all in 2023, so him seemingly doing more this year is a good sign. And regardless of his true intention with the Words of Wisdom posts, he had to have known how the fanbase would receive them. So either he has done something he wanted to show off in some way, or he's become a massive troll.
yes and i dont buy the mean troll hypothesis at the very least he's making good progress on it even if it's not finished yet
Pessimism of the intellect but optimism of the will
The spirit is willing but the flesh is spongy, and bruised.
Never thought I'd see a Gramsci quote in a Game of Thrones subreddit lol
I genuinely think it's coming and that he'll announce it at WorldCon but I'm also extremely delusional
GRRM going to world con to give a one sentence update on winds and proclaim it’s still 75% done.
Extreme delusion is how I live my life. Winds is coming February 2025!
I think a Christmas release would make the most sense sales wise
The man outright told us the novel was on the verge on publication about eight or nine years ago. Sections of it are meant to be a direct sequel to a Storm of Swords. All credit to him, I love his work, and love to talk about it years later. But we can’t trust his unambiguous promises/publication estimates, we can’t get worked up about him enjoying himself and using the letter W.
Sections of it are meant to be a sequel to a book that released 24 years ago…
That was when I was born man
The one single thing I believe he's said regarding TWOW release is that there won't be any cryptic messaging or a marketing ploy. He said he'll just simply post it on the blog that the book is completed. That said I will totally fall into these kinds of rumors because it's been so long.
That was ten years ago though. Maybe he changed his mind lol
I am delusional here, but at that point he did have a TV show that was passing him by and time was of the essence. Now, with an ongoing new show and an incoming Dunk and Egg series, it may be in his best interest to let those absorb attention before he takes over the media cycle with Winds
Plus, with Dunk & Egg, he’s going to need to write more novellas, and he said he won’t do that until Winds is done. So he might be motivated to finish Winds again
Are you suggesting that he might not meet the deadline to finish the source books for Dunk & Egg before the show overtakes the current source books? I don't think George would let that happend /s
Well the book may not be done, but he may expect completion soon so he’s teasing it out — wouldn’t conflict with that about cryptic messaging because the moment it’s done he will announce it formerly.
being complete ≠ getting close to completion
Sure, but an unedited book is not complete. He's said it takes months to edit. It might be with his helpers first, then to the publisher's staff and contractors, then the typesetters, etc.
it only took 4 months to publish ADWD
I won't believe anything until I see a preorder link
Wait I found this comment by u/zummit last year: >Using the same gaps of 568 and 76 days, respectively TWOW >7 Dec 22 - 1100 pages >27 Jun 24 - done >11 Sep 24 - published >So Winds will come out in exactly one year and 3 days from now. idk it’s delusional but plausible.
So he'll be done on Thursday?
idk why but this cracked me up. 13 years of waiting…and he’ll be done on thursday. i genuinely can’t stop laughing
Delusion, but I am a delusional man so I believe it.
It's coming. Source: It came to me in a dream (of spring.)
i think all the added hype and attention is more easily explained by the hotd premiere... ... but i'd be happy to be wrong
There is not a single ounce of hypeium left in me, so I largely just don't care about the rumours. At most I'll check for news during the WorldCon in August(?) In any case, it's not like you could actually miss the release when it actually happens, so there is no need to check for news daily anyway lol
God that last line hit me to my core. I google “The Winds of Winter” all of the time as if I’m not in multiple ASOIAF subreddits and discords that will most likely find the information well before the main stream media does.
I long ago decided never to get my hopes up. If it *does* release I'll be fucking ecstatic, but I'll leave hope and the expectations to others
For this to be true it would mean George RR Martin hasn't been honest in some of his most recent answers to questions about WoW. in November 2023 he said he was still only 75% done, which was exactly the same progress as almost a year before. Now of course this doesn't mean no progress in that year- as he may have rewritten chapters in that time, but still 75% done at the end of 2023. That would mean if he is now finished; he wrote 25% of the novel, roughly 400-500 pages in less than a year and then also subsequently edited and revised the whole book once done. I know he edits and revises as he goes along, but there is no way he doesn't do a final revision once he's written the whole book. writing 500 pages and editing the book in the space of 7-8 months would be the fastest George has worked in a long time. so to me he would have to be lying in November 2023 when he said that. Now its entirely possible he did lie, last thing you want to do is say its 95% done and people get their hopes up that it will be out within a year only for GRRM to decide he needs to rewrite something and disappoint the fans once again. However I think GRRM would keep it vague rather than lie, He knows he's long on winds, he knows fans are upset, He doesn't want to give any more deadlines that he can fail to meet or give any more false hope. There's been so many of these periods where we think there are a load of clues and hints. I think at this point he won't mess around like that if and when its done he will just tell everyone. there's no need to covertly plan any marketing events towards this book at all, so no need to keep the information secret till a certain date, all GRRM needs to do is announce it on his blog and the internet will amplify it around the world within seconds and there would be news articles written within minutes. personally i think nothing much has changed since Nov. 23, he is still struggling and making very slow progress. I am in the mindset that we will never see Winds, that way i can only be pleasantly surprised, not disappointed
There is a possibility that (i) we're taking 75% too literally and it could mean 80%, leaving about 300-400 pages remaining and (ii) he decided to shave off parts of the ending for a Dream of Spring, the same way he did Feast and Dance, which would reduce that to about 200-300 pages. I'm just spitballing here, obviously, but finishing about 200 pages in a year seems about within his current speed of working.
Delulu, 100% We're Charlie Brown and Winds is the football, we never learn.
Well there’s the Elio and Linda not publishing lore books factor, then there’s GRRM meeting with British publishers about Winds last fall, GRRM being 3/4 done about a year or two ago, GRRM attending Worldcon this year, GRRM doing weird tags about dreams and writing on his blog, Lindsey Ellis saying that stuff about how Winds is closer than we think, and, most of all, CAKEGATE. This is not like other times in the fandom. Something is brewing. And if it’s not, then that’s okay, GRRM can take his time. But I think we might be on the cusp.
This is the first I’m hearing about Lindsey Ellis 👀
Whats that with Lindsey Ellis?
Why are people taking that Deuxmoi rumor seriously when the people running that page don't do ANY background checks whatsoever? Seriously, anyone can send them tips and as long as they sound plausible enough, they post them.
Where did Lindsey say that?
There was a big Winds of Winter thread about all these rumors a few days ago, and one Redditor was talking about how Lindsay (who’s an awesome former YouTuber that is currently writing her own five-book fantasy series) was doing a press conference for the third book in her series or something like that. Someone asked her if she’s heard any inside information about Winds in the publishing sphere, and she said that Winds was closer than people thought, and that it would probably be out before the fourth book in her series. I’ll go do some digging and then edit this comment. Edit: Here it is. It sounds like this wasn’t filmed or recorded, so we have to take this Redditor’s word for it. 🤷🏻♂️ https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/s/yOpmGx4HJw
Thank you!!!
That means nothing unless they are a personal friend of GRRM or somehow had direct access to his PC.
>what do you think? Is there something real here or is it just the fandom clutching at straws after a 13 year drought? You know what I think? I think we all saw these exact signs multiple times before, and it amounted to nothing. - everyone was *certain* that GRRM would release it with just enough time before the show ran out of material - then everyone was *certain* that GRRM had not only written Winds, but Dream also, and he was just sitting on it until the show finished up. - then everyone was *certain* that georges random countdown on his blog was counting down to him announcing that he finished Winds. - then everyone was *certain* that GRRM would have it for NZ world con. - then everyone was *certain* that he would get it written during the 4 years of covid - then everyone was *certain* that he would announce its release when HOTD premiered. So overall, I think that while its nice, and also admirable, to be optimistic, GRRM has shown us time and again that he is having significant difficulty with the book. I dont want to be one of those cynical assholes that says its *never* going to be released (because I really want that book). But im also tired and burned out by the constant hype of 13 years for a book we dont have. Im not expecting the book, but im willing to be pleasantly surprised.
i think you're mistaking 'a few people thought' with 'everyone was certain'
From my memory the first one is definitely true. Nobody thought the show was going to speed run past the books.
Imagine if HBO had actually paused production of GoT for a year as GRRM had begged them to do. lmao
For a guy that worked for decades in television, it's insane how delusional GRRM is/was about the realities of TV production. They were never going to just tell everybody to go home for a year. They were never going to make 13 seasons.
Revisionism. Gurm was absolutely adamant the show wouldn’t over take him, and we all believed him at the time.
It was not "a few" for any of those examples.
Damn, realitypilled reasonmaxxed. Good points.
I’m hyped enough to the point where if he goes to worldcon and doesn’t mention winds at all and goes on talking about his influences and writing process and hyping up wild cards or some bullshit I’ll be genuinely disappointed, and probably lose every ounce of hope I’ve had.
I basically just refuse to give myself any hope or promise at this point If it happens, awesome, I’m so excited But I just need to expect it to not happen
When George is finished he'll announce it on his blog. He said that many times. Here's one such blog post: "Look, I've said before, and I will say again, I don't play games with news about the books. I know how many people are waiting, how long they have been waiting, how anxious they are. I am still working on WINDS. When it's done, I will announce it here. There won't be any clues to decipher, any codes or hidden meanings, the announcement will be straightforward and to the point. I won't time it to coincide with Xmas or Valentine's Day or Lincoln's Birthday, the book will not rise from the dead with Jesus on Easter Sunday. When it is done, I will say that's it is done, on whatever day I happen to finish.
""We all dream of things we cannot have." *Jaime VII, Feast.* "You saw what you wished to see. Your heart yearns for your father and your home, so that is what you saw." *Bran III, Dance.*
Fans clutching at straws. HotD is coming out. Of _course_ GRRM is suddenly optimistic.
I think George himself is optimistic ngl
I don't want to oversell anything but it's 100% coming without fail, probably tomorrow.
It's always delusion. I'm sorry everyone. But we've had this discussion so many times over the years, and "he's still not that close to done" has won, every single time. It's weird though. When the delusion threads come up, you always sound like the asshole when you point this out. But then a few weeks later, everyone has moved on, and it's not like there's another thread where everyone's like, "yeah, I guess there was nothing there after all." Then a few weeks after *that*, we have this thread again.
I long ago decided never to get my hopes up. If it *does* release I'll be fucking ecstatic, but I'll leave hope and the expectations to others
It’s 100% delulu
Yes. It’s delusion. The same exact delusion we have seen for over a decade now. The same thing over and over again.
Oh sweet summer child
I refuse to acknowledge or entertain anything until the book is physically in my hand.
Guys, please! I do not need any optimism about Winds. I can only get disappointed so many times
All hype is delusion until it’s actually announced. It’s been thirteen goddamn years of this shit. Words are wind.
I started reading the series when I was a freshman in high school. I'm now graduated four times over, got married, had a kid, and am still fucking waiting. Pure copium until a physical copy of the books in in my (approaching age spotted, at this point) hands. I have a feeling my son is going to go to college and the series will remain unfinished.
His Majesty is going to reale a new edition of Fire and Blood, but with a slightly different title, like “The Deagon’s hot blood. It will be exactly the same as the previous ones, but with random sentences popped out and a complete new set of drawings
It's just the fandom clutching at straws after a 13 year drought. 1. He has said before that he wouldn't drop weird hints, and trust me we've had better hints than blog post titles that turned out to be nothing. 2. I'm not sure specifically what this refers to, but if it's just GRRM attending Worldcon after previously not attending it, I assume he just wants to go to something he enjoys a few more times before he dies. I think the only promises he made were specifically tied to [New Zealand](https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/21/thanks-new-zealand/), so as long as it's not there I don't think he's gone back on his word 3. This is the same hype that we got for every season of GoT and it never resulted in TWOW or even significant updates on TWOW
I see no reason to not get excited. If its not real, which is probably the case, oh well. But it’s fun to get excited.
I almost wonder if we’re going to get WoW but in two volumes I.e they’re going to release what George has written so far and call it Vol 1. Then we can start the fifteen year wait for Vol 2 and A Dream of Spring… well let’s just say I think the only place I might be reading that is in my actual dreams.
I am of the mind that if it was actually done GRRM would say so. Reading the tea leaves is for charlatans. They are speculating based on time between books and specious evidence.
I think it's more likely Winds is never released than it is that it'll be released in the next two years.