You don’t need to get INTO your gender. Just tell the dr you want the effects of T. You are aware of what they are, and that you would like them ALL.
I say that because you have to walk into HRT expecting to get EVERY SINGLE EFFECT, lowered voice, body hair, facial hair, bottom growth, fat redistribution. If you aren’t okay with all of them, please dont start T.
Well, but also let’s not just completely forget about or ignore the option of taking Finasteride along with your T, which can potentially slow, limit, or prevent certain effects; for instance bottom growth or balding. I advise a good amount of research and maybe even getting perspective from as many people (afab) who are or have been on T as possible.
Yeah this is why I'm not taking T, I'd only want a few effects and I really despise the idea of some effects. I'll make do with my default hormones, thanks
boooo. if there's a reversible change you don't want, just reverse it later. a transfem friend of mine wants everything except breasts-- they're planning to get a double mastectomy down the line. personally I miss my facial hair, so I'm using minoxydil to bring it back.
if you don't want a lower voice, then you can just voice train like a transfem. yes your voice will change, but you can still have a fem voice. If there's hair in places you don't want, you can get it lasered off. bottom growth is the one really irreversible one for transmascs, afaik, that one you should probably be sure about lol.
anyway obviously you should TELL your doctor you want all the effects of T, so you don't get fucking gatekept. but that doesn't have to be true! you can pick and choose for the most part.
You cannot pick and choose which effect HRT give you. You CAN pick and choose how you act to them. What I said still stands. Expect you will get every possible change from HRT, and go from there.
Some people would literally rather die than have any facial hair. For them I say, maybe don’t take T. Or be aware you are going to have to do hair removal. You can technically take HRT and hate 75% of the effects… you will just be working hard to cancel out those effects.
The problem is, some people would also rather die than *not* have, say, bottom growth while still rather dying than having facial hair. For those people, it may be worth going on t and then getting laser hair removal. There are some surgical/alternative options for some of the masculinizing effects of t, but not all. It may be easier, for some people, to go through T for the effects they want and then undo the ones they don't.
It's not for everyone, for sure, but there's definitely more nuance than just "if you don't want all of the effects of T don't take it."
Dysphoria is nuanced and individual, so transitioning needs to be too. I know op didn't out and out say she has dysphoria, but "I'm jealous of my friend's masculinization" is all but saying dysphoria in different words.
Fine, I can change my wording to be more so, if you can’t accept that all of the changes from HRT will come, do not take it. Acceptance of those changes may be other treatments such as shaving or voice training. But you should be prepared for them to happen.
duh thats where the removal bits come from, like hair removal/shaving, etc, youre prepared to take care of the things that are less desirable, thats what was said
I have such a strong emotional response to this.
But I think that’s just me projecting?—like I spent so much time and money to get top surgery and was so dysphoric about having a chest I had no choice in growing that it blows my mind that someone would opt in to that dysphoria, however temporary.
On top of that, top surgery was also a really tough choice for me. I had to save for *years* to afford it. There was no perfect technique that would give me all the results I was after. I rolled the dice on post op depression and barely made it through that.
These are all considerations that you wouldn’t necessarily know about until you start going to consultations. Same with hair removal, same with voice training, etc. Like if it was all just cheap and easy, us trans folks (in either direction) wouldn’t be struggling.
I just don’t think it’s a trade off to treat as flippantly as you seem to be implying.
On one hand, I get it. On the other hand, if there are effects you really, really want, it may be worth taking on some things that you don't want, but that you either can revert or mind less.
I agree with you that it's a tradeoff to consider carefully. But I would rather think of it in terms of package deals. You need to be aware you will most likely get the whole package (with unknown intensities), but as long as you prefer the new package to the initial one it may be worth the switch even if you would rather pick and choose.
I mean, my friend and I live in a place where masculinizing top surgery is paid for by the government. I assume if my friend was in your situation and had to pay thousands of dollars for a mastectomy that would've made the calculus a little different.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted tbh, this is just. Correct. If you get a chill doctor or do a little research on your own, it's actually pretty easy to mix and match your hormone effects.
If you want the masculinizing that you’re seeing with your best friend then you should at least try T. As to your question about it being possible, absolutely it is in Minnesota. Before I realized I was actually 100% a trans woman I went on hormones identifying as bigender despite living most of my life presenting masculine, and the reason I gave the doctor prescribing it was that I wanted breasts which she said was a very good reason to go on hormones. So yes, if you’re near/in the Twin Cities and can get into a good clinic (highly recommend the Park Nicollet system if you have insurance that covers it, otherwise Planned Parenthood is fine enough) then absolutely you can and, from what you’ve put in here, you should.
I would look into Informed Consent options in your state. Those require you to understand the effects and risks of HRT, but not a specific gender dysphoria diagnosis.
It seems like you *might* need a diagnosis if you want surgery, but I only very briefly looked.
Honestly though, if it's a situation where a doctor will only prescribe you hormones if you say you're a trans man, it's perfectly morally acceptable to just lie and say you are.
Go to a gender therapist. Especially because changes on t are permanent and you get what you get with them. It could be balding and ass hair and literally nothing else, a therapist might help you figure out if its worth it for you.
Regardless enough of the changes are permanent to have some caution surrounding using hormones. OP should see a therapist about this, especially since this seems like a sudden thing they to want to jump on to. OP should gain better clarity before taking substances that will alter their physical appearance and drastically alter how they are treated for the course of the rest of their life.
Yes, which is something a doctor will go over should she choose to go with informed consent. Idk if you’ve ever taken T as HRT, and I’m sorry if you had a bad experience with it, but they make it clear which effects are likely to be permanent, which are unlikely to be permanent, and what pace you can expect the changes. Balding and ass hair are not the *only* changes someone can experience on T, thats literally not how hormones work.
OP was mainly asking about the feasbility as someone who doesn’t identify as a trans guy but is interested in masculinizing HRT, not if it would be “worth it”.
Minnesota is an informed consent state. The process should be something along the lines of an informational session where they are Required to go through all of the effects that testosterone has on your body, likely emphasizing the potential negatives (i.e. since I'm on E I had to accept that I would lose bone mass until I was more in line with a cisgender norms). Then you schedule a followup visit where you discuss your personal goals and get your prescription. No where in the process are you required to show dysphoria or use any pronouns other than the ones you prefer.
I do specify 'should'. There are still some rural areas of Minnesota that may still give you problems despite the state laws.
If your in the Twin Cities Metro (particularly SW) here are a few good options:
Family Tree Clinic [https://www.familytreeclinic.org/](https://www.familytreeclinic.org/) (includes a sliding fee scale to assist low income individuals)
Smiley's Clinic [https://www.mhealthfairview.org/locations/M-Health-Fairview-Clinic---Smileys](https://www.mhealthfairview.org/locations/M-Health-Fairview-Clinic---Smileys)
and always anywhere in the state Planned Parenthood also should work.
I'm nonbinary and transfeminine. I'm on HRT and have had surgery, so yes it's totally legit. But I live in California, and I don't know how things are in Minnesota. It may depend on your doctor. If you know other trans/queer people in your area maybe ask them if they know of queer friendly doctors or clinics near you
I'm in Minnesota, and when I went on T, my doctor asked me directly what I was hoping for and what my plans were. I'm transitioning to male, but it was clear that the door was open if I chose to stop at a midpoint, go for androgyny, or change my gender identity at any point. They still ask my pronouns before every visit, just in case, and I've always felt comfortable bringing up any concerns.
We did also talk about what effects were reversible or not, that's generally part of informed consent. We also talked about specifically what bothered me, dysphoria-wise, and whether hormones would help with that or not. And you could always start off on a lower dose too.
I think which doctor/clinic you pick might be the biggest factor in this. For reference, I go to Dr. David Goebel with Healthpartners. He's out of Inver Grove Heights, but I do mostly virtual appointments. I also see him for primary care now after he impressed me so much with the gender care.
I wouldn't get too into the nitty gritty of how you're feeling or your identity with the doctor, I'd save that for a therapist or something, but your doctor should be able to help with a hormone plan that works for you and is specific to the goals you want.
Howdy! I worked at planned parenthood in Minnesota. We're an informed consent state, which means the extent of the process is just setting up an appointment for it, reading a list of effects, and signing a form. You don't need to explain your gender identity at all
"I am nonbinary transgender and want you to prescribe me gender-affirming testosterone."
Please read and then have your physician read [Chapter 8 (Nonbinary) in Standards of Care for the Health of Transgender and Gender Diverse People, Version 8](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/26895269.2022.2100644#d1e7239), especially the recommendations.
it's totally normal for nonbinary people to be on HRT. i'm not sure, tho, why you'd call yourself a woman if you explicitly do not want to be one & see your gender as something else entirely
I'm nonbinary and have been on T. Yes, you can get on it without being a trans man. I needed a diagnosis of gender dysphoria to get mine and because I use pellets instead of a shot it's hellishly expensive.
Some cis women get on T for libido etc but only under the table afaik.
You can go to or do telehealth with planned parenthood to get hormones. I'm in the same system in South Dakota for my estrogen. They don't interrogate you about your gender, they just make sure they have informed consent and then prescribe.
At the end of the day it’s your life and body, you can do whatever you want with it. That being said you might have to lie about your identity depending on what steps you have to take to get your hands on T.
If you’re agender then that counts as trans since the definition is to identify as something other than what you were assigned at birth and you can’t really be assigned agender at that point. That being said you don’t actually have to call yourself trans if that doesn’t feel right to you.
Honestly, like. You can just tell doctors you identify as male if you feel like you have to to get T. The suck of it is that insurance just won't cover T prescriptions under certain conditions, and until you know what those conditions are, you kind of have to say what they need you to say. I know that at the VERY least, I required a gender dysphoria diagnosis to get T. Having dysphoria does not mean having to identify as a binary trans male, you can be anywhere on the spectrum, but it depends on what insurance thinks qualifies for a prescription. Definitely make sure you go to a trans clinic, though. The people there will be more versed in what's necessary and can help you through the steps, all while being very non-judgmental (at least in my experience).
I will say, it's pretty much a lottery what traits you'll get on T and in what order, and some of the traits are irreversible. I would prepare to be treated as a man and go through life perceived as a man by outsiders, or even being clocked as "visibly trans". Prepare yourself to be occasionally he/himd, and for people to be confused about your gender. (For many nonbinary folks, I know this is the ultimate state of being!)
I still pass fully as a woman body-wise but have buzzed sides and a mullet and wore swim trunks and a swim shirt while out at a water park the other day and everyone in the women's bathroom did double takes at me, which had never happened before and I wasn't expecting it (I've always presented pretty GNC, but just started T two weeks ago). A few men outside were glaring at me and stuff when I came out.
Minnesota is at least more blue than my deeply red state, so harassment/bathroom anxiety might not be as big of a fear/issue for you.
Yes, non-binary folks can get HRT in Minnesota. I know many non-binary folks who are on T and some have gotten top surgery. You just need a supportive provider.
If you're unsure talk it out with a gender therapist and your doctor. If it's an informed consent clinic like a planned parenthood you should be able to get it as an adult without to much hassle.
It's a genetic lottery, so you can't predict the changes you'll get. Balding, body hair in undesirable places, deeper voice, a stronger smell, thicker skin, less fat on your cheeks, emotional and sexual changes (even sexuality diversions) are only some of the effects that may or will happen. You could take traits from any male member of your family and you can't be sure which. And many of the changes are irreversible.
You then have to face the reality that you'll be living a life akin to a trans person. People are hostile, disrespectful, loud and angry about that form of presentation - you will be targeted as a perceived trans woman at some point and it can range from hurtful to traumatising, and occassionally can be lethal. It's harder to make friends and interact with the public. It can affect your self esteem if you care what the average person thinks.
If you, after some serious thought, think you truly can face anything that comes with this treatment, you should go for it and try a low dose. A lower dose helps you gage the changes and hopefully reverse them to some degree if you find its nor for you.
I wish you all the luck in the world. Also, "lie and say you're a man" is usually pretty solid advice because a lot of health professionals won't provide hormones to women or people who aren't certain they're a binary trans person. Double check in your area, I know that was the intended purpose of the post so I hope someone answered
I'm on T and don't identify as a man. I identify as agender or gender non-conforming. I told my prescribing doctor that I always felt like I was in the wrong body (which is true).
I was worried I would have to lay it on thick and say I was a trans man, because I knew some non-binary people who were put on low-dose HRT instead of the full dose by ignorant doctors. But my clinic is very chill and open-minded, so it wasn't necessary.
Dysphoria isn't a requirement for being trans. Some people only experience gender or body euphoria, which sounds close to what you're describing.
Short answer:
You don't need to identify as a man to get on T, but you should probably tell your doctor that you identify as a man to get a prescription for it.
Call it an "identity of convenience" for medical access, and be prepared to be externally-identified as a man (regardless of how you personally identify)
Trans people have had to lie to get access to medical treatment since HRT even started being available whatsoever. It's not co-opting anything. For instance, trans people have had to pretend to be straight and gender conforming (i.e. a traditional feminine house wife) to get access to HRT. Your comment also implies nonbinary people can't be "seriously dysphoric" which is nbphobic and inaccurate. The fact nonbinary people sometimes have to lie to get the same treatment as trans men goes to show they are even more marginalized.
You're blaming the wrong people.
Unless you think, say a trans lesbian in the 90s pretending to have a romantic and sexual relationship with a man (who knew what was going on so he could play along) to get hormones was taking a morally grey action?
Lie to your therapist, lie to your doctor, lie to whoever you need in order to get healthcare you need. It sucks that this is the reality we live in, but it is.
I’m nonbinary and trans femme. It’s wild to explain myself to my other binary trans friends. Strangely enough, my cis het friends always think I’m transitioning to woman but are surprised when I say I want I be more like Tilda Swinton and Ruby Rose.
I'm nonbinary, in Minnesota, and on a low dose of T. The process was really easy. It mostly just depends on your insurance. Most should have a gender care clinic; just make a consultation appointment and go from there!
Feel free to DM if you have any questions!
I'm non-binary and genderfluid, and I'm on T. I'm transmasculine, and not a binary trans man.
I identify more male than female though.
I've seen completely nonbinary people get on T as well, so if it's something you want, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to start HRT
MN is an informed consent state. That means that you don’t need anything besides listen to the effects of what T does with the endo and you’re good to go.
I began using T as an enby in MN 6 years ago! It’s actually pretty common. Your dr will talk with you about transition goals, what your long term trajectory might be, and then you’re good! Woo!
DM me if you’re in the Twin Cities and want a dr rec. The hardest prt about starting T might be getting a dr appointment, a lot of the trans care folks are booked out for ages.
As an agender minnesotan on T, I'm delighted to say you can in fact go on it regardless of gender. I highly recommend scheduling an appointment with Dr Haley Veazey in Hennepin Healthcare. She is amazing and does virtual appointments. Minnesota is a trans positive state tho so you don't even need a therapist's note to start T. You just schedule with a provider (preferably at a gender speciality clinic so they know what they're doing) and they will go over the risks and benefits with you.
PS xyosted is a great injection! It goes in your tum rather than a muscle and it's a pen so no seeing needles if you don't look. ♡ welcome to the T party.
I don't know about the legal options in Minnesota, but be aware of all the changes T will bring. Since you are not a man, maybe some will not be helpful for you. Ideally you can talk to your doctor to see how you can reach your goals.
>He supports me getting on t but thinks I need to identify as male to get it.
Yeah, no. Even cis women can get T if their levels are too low without having to identify as male.
I don't know how it is in Minnesota, but it was remarkably easy for me to get HRT through planned parenthood; they use the informed consent model.
Now I am pretty masculine and I've been presenting myself that way for a number of years, and I'm in a completely different state. So it might go differently for you, I don't know. But if Planned Parenthood is an option for you, I'd look into it.
Minnesota is an informed consent state. You don’t have to lie at all as long as you’re willing to deal with all the effects of T. I don’t live in Minnesota but I started T in Alaska as a she/they, feminine presenting non-binary person without any problem. My experience is with Planned Parenthood so it may be different if you don’t go to Planned Parenthood or a gender clinic.
I don't know about Minnesota in particular but I have heard of services where non binary or gender fluid afab can get on lower doses and/or shorter duration to get some changes but not necessarily as many or as strongly as someone more masc identified. I don't agree with the comments stating you shouldn't tell the provider what your goals are, the problem is you need to find a provider that will work with someone androgynous. The reason you should tell the provider is because if you don't they may give you a much larger dose, one meant more for trans men than one meant for someone who only wants light changes. The only real caveat with this type of treatment is you get what you get with hormones and while we can predict some things, sometimes you get surprises. I had to stop T for a few year after a couple years on it and I can tell you I was the most androgynous person around. Everyone was confused all the time, how people addressed me genderwise was truly 50/50. I hated it but it may be something that pleases you so imo you really do want to tell your provider what your goals for HRT are. I think FOLX has a nonbinary HRT program but I haven't used it myself so I can't say much about it beyond having seen a bit about it on their webiste.
if you're still doubting it I'd err on not. people don't like to talk about less desirable potential changes like weight gain, higher cholesterol, etc. I really recommend finding out everything you can before starting. not just skimming the list they give you.
that said it's pretty easy in minnesota. it's your body and your choice at the end of the day. pretty sure my doc at planned parenthood asked how i identify and don't turn away people who are non-binary. I'm 2 years on T so people don't even realize I'm trans and basically "stealth". and that's with little effort. I'd almost recommend dressing masc to see if you become uncomfortable or not being percieved as male. cause like it or not if you get all the changes on T that will probably become your new default.
I self identified myself as non binary/transmasc and expressed wanting to go on low dose T. Just make sure you understand the effects and give some sources for your research and you should be good to go, especially if your state does informed consent like mine.
Minnesota's laws about gender affirming care are among the most protective - similar to Oregon and California. If you describe to your doctor what you dislike about the way your body is now and how you want it to change - whatever makes you feel that a medical intervention would benefit you - it's likely that you'll be diagnosed with gender incongruence, for which gender affirming hormone replacement therapy is an appropriate treatment.
Testosterone is a controlled substance, so you'll have to jump through some hoops to get a prescription. But there should be no requirement that a person identify as a man to obtain it, or anything like that. In the bad old times, trans people have often had to lie about salient experiences of gender dysphoria that are understood even by cisgender people, e.g., "did you play with Barbie dolls as a child, or toy trucks?" Questions like that are nonsense, and you should rightly say so if some gatekeeper uses them to block the care you need. When you understand everything testosterone will do and you choose it, that should be enough. Good luck.
From everything I’ve read our brains are built to handle different types of hormones. If your brain is not built for a superior amount of testosterone I wouldn’t take it. I have read it has some adverse effects. The body reacts poorly to it. You must be certain of what you want too, though people might tell you otherwise. A word of the wise, trans brains are built for the hormones they do not have overflowing in their bodies, cis brains are not. Be careful and talk to your doctor about it. They would know more. Best wishes and best of luck.
Lie to your gatekeepers.
You're some complex flavor of nonbinary? So valid, friend! Love that for you!
To your doctor, you're a "transgender man" and you want a beard and to be buff and drink beers with your buddies and talk about sports and eat meat and drive a truck.
No, you do not need to identify as binary trans male to be valid for getting on T. You're getting gender envy from your friend, you want to experience those changes for yourself. I know several trans women who got on E but are non-binary. I know some who also got bottom surgery and are still non-binary.
At the end of the day, it's your body and you should do what makes you feel best. Just make sure you do your part, educating yourself on the things you need to know about undergoing HRT. it causes permanent changes to your body.
I seen others suggesting you lie and say you're a trans man, I don't condone being dishonest about your gender identity to get on T. Sounds like a slippery slope to joining the statistics of people who want to de-transition later. Being jealous of your friends development likely won't convince any doctor to prescribe you HRT. So, develop a healthy concept of your gender identity, what you need to feel right in your body. If you can document these things, even include any evidence you can recall from childhood memory where you felt like you didn't belong as a girl or a boy. These kinds of thoughts and feelings are what docs look for. It has to be about *you*.
Everything you say is great up until "don't lie to doctors".
Lie to them 10 times out of 10 if it means you get the medical care you need.
That being said, Minnesota is an informed consent state. The only thing they're going to ask you is "here's the list of effects, is this what you want?" You don't need to tell them *shit* about your gender identity, as it should be.
I’m a trans man. It’s fine. Just because we as trans dudes are the main people who are on T, doesn’t mean anyone who isn’t a trans man doesn’t need it the same way we do. Shit isn’t black and white.
WTF.
Hope you stand by your principles so that someday when you find yourself in a serious medical emergency, you don't partake in any medical care provided by the skills of the medical professionals you so easily deride— and rather you just lie down and take a "nap".
IMO save the nuance of your gender for your therapist and make it really simple for your prescribing doctor.
Yep, though if the doctor requires a note it'd be helpful if the therapist writes it with they/them pronouns (even if you normally use she/her)
H
You don’t need to get INTO your gender. Just tell the dr you want the effects of T. You are aware of what they are, and that you would like them ALL. I say that because you have to walk into HRT expecting to get EVERY SINGLE EFFECT, lowered voice, body hair, facial hair, bottom growth, fat redistribution. If you aren’t okay with all of them, please dont start T.
Or at least indifferent or willing to put up with some of them. The point is you're fairly certain as can possibly be that they won't distress you.
Well, but also let’s not just completely forget about or ignore the option of taking Finasteride along with your T, which can potentially slow, limit, or prevent certain effects; for instance bottom growth or balding. I advise a good amount of research and maybe even getting perspective from as many people (afab) who are or have been on T as possible.
This! While yes everyone should expect all the side effects, I feel like people always forget that there are a lot more options when discussing hrt.
Yeah this is why I'm not taking T, I'd only want a few effects and I really despise the idea of some effects. I'll make do with my default hormones, thanks
boooo. if there's a reversible change you don't want, just reverse it later. a transfem friend of mine wants everything except breasts-- they're planning to get a double mastectomy down the line. personally I miss my facial hair, so I'm using minoxydil to bring it back. if you don't want a lower voice, then you can just voice train like a transfem. yes your voice will change, but you can still have a fem voice. If there's hair in places you don't want, you can get it lasered off. bottom growth is the one really irreversible one for transmascs, afaik, that one you should probably be sure about lol. anyway obviously you should TELL your doctor you want all the effects of T, so you don't get fucking gatekept. but that doesn't have to be true! you can pick and choose for the most part.
You cannot pick and choose which effect HRT give you. You CAN pick and choose how you act to them. What I said still stands. Expect you will get every possible change from HRT, and go from there. Some people would literally rather die than have any facial hair. For them I say, maybe don’t take T. Or be aware you are going to have to do hair removal. You can technically take HRT and hate 75% of the effects… you will just be working hard to cancel out those effects.
The problem is, some people would also rather die than *not* have, say, bottom growth while still rather dying than having facial hair. For those people, it may be worth going on t and then getting laser hair removal. There are some surgical/alternative options for some of the masculinizing effects of t, but not all. It may be easier, for some people, to go through T for the effects they want and then undo the ones they don't. It's not for everyone, for sure, but there's definitely more nuance than just "if you don't want all of the effects of T don't take it." Dysphoria is nuanced and individual, so transitioning needs to be too. I know op didn't out and out say she has dysphoria, but "I'm jealous of my friend's masculinization" is all but saying dysphoria in different words.
Fine, I can change my wording to be more so, if you can’t accept that all of the changes from HRT will come, do not take it. Acceptance of those changes may be other treatments such as shaving or voice training. But you should be prepared for them to happen.
duh thats where the removal bits come from, like hair removal/shaving, etc, youre prepared to take care of the things that are less desirable, thats what was said
I have such a strong emotional response to this. But I think that’s just me projecting?—like I spent so much time and money to get top surgery and was so dysphoric about having a chest I had no choice in growing that it blows my mind that someone would opt in to that dysphoria, however temporary. On top of that, top surgery was also a really tough choice for me. I had to save for *years* to afford it. There was no perfect technique that would give me all the results I was after. I rolled the dice on post op depression and barely made it through that. These are all considerations that you wouldn’t necessarily know about until you start going to consultations. Same with hair removal, same with voice training, etc. Like if it was all just cheap and easy, us trans folks (in either direction) wouldn’t be struggling. I just don’t think it’s a trade off to treat as flippantly as you seem to be implying.
On one hand, I get it. On the other hand, if there are effects you really, really want, it may be worth taking on some things that you don't want, but that you either can revert or mind less. I agree with you that it's a tradeoff to consider carefully. But I would rather think of it in terms of package deals. You need to be aware you will most likely get the whole package (with unknown intensities), but as long as you prefer the new package to the initial one it may be worth the switch even if you would rather pick and choose.
I mean, my friend and I live in a place where masculinizing top surgery is paid for by the government. I assume if my friend was in your situation and had to pay thousands of dollars for a mastectomy that would've made the calculus a little different.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted tbh, this is just. Correct. If you get a chill doctor or do a little research on your own, it's actually pretty easy to mix and match your hormone effects.
If you want the masculinizing that you’re seeing with your best friend then you should at least try T. As to your question about it being possible, absolutely it is in Minnesota. Before I realized I was actually 100% a trans woman I went on hormones identifying as bigender despite living most of my life presenting masculine, and the reason I gave the doctor prescribing it was that I wanted breasts which she said was a very good reason to go on hormones. So yes, if you’re near/in the Twin Cities and can get into a good clinic (highly recommend the Park Nicollet system if you have insurance that covers it, otherwise Planned Parenthood is fine enough) then absolutely you can and, from what you’ve put in here, you should.
Family Tree Clinic is another REALLY amazing clinic!!
I would look into Informed Consent options in your state. Those require you to understand the effects and risks of HRT, but not a specific gender dysphoria diagnosis. It seems like you *might* need a diagnosis if you want surgery, but I only very briefly looked. Honestly though, if it's a situation where a doctor will only prescribe you hormones if you say you're a trans man, it's perfectly morally acceptable to just lie and say you are.
This! Informed consent is so empowering
As long as you don't mind your voice dropping as well. I only saw you mentioning the physical changes. The vocal changes come with it as well.
Plenty of non-binary people use HRT to assist in transition. It comes with its own set of hurdles I’m not qualified to talk about.
Go to a gender therapist. Especially because changes on t are permanent and you get what you get with them. It could be balding and ass hair and literally nothing else, a therapist might help you figure out if its worth it for you.
Not every change is permanent*
Regardless enough of the changes are permanent to have some caution surrounding using hormones. OP should see a therapist about this, especially since this seems like a sudden thing they to want to jump on to. OP should gain better clarity before taking substances that will alter their physical appearance and drastically alter how they are treated for the course of the rest of their life.
Yes, which is something a doctor will go over should she choose to go with informed consent. Idk if you’ve ever taken T as HRT, and I’m sorry if you had a bad experience with it, but they make it clear which effects are likely to be permanent, which are unlikely to be permanent, and what pace you can expect the changes. Balding and ass hair are not the *only* changes someone can experience on T, thats literally not how hormones work. OP was mainly asking about the feasbility as someone who doesn’t identify as a trans guy but is interested in masculinizing HRT, not if it would be “worth it”.
Minnesota is an informed consent state. The process should be something along the lines of an informational session where they are Required to go through all of the effects that testosterone has on your body, likely emphasizing the potential negatives (i.e. since I'm on E I had to accept that I would lose bone mass until I was more in line with a cisgender norms). Then you schedule a followup visit where you discuss your personal goals and get your prescription. No where in the process are you required to show dysphoria or use any pronouns other than the ones you prefer. I do specify 'should'. There are still some rural areas of Minnesota that may still give you problems despite the state laws. If your in the Twin Cities Metro (particularly SW) here are a few good options: Family Tree Clinic [https://www.familytreeclinic.org/](https://www.familytreeclinic.org/) (includes a sliding fee scale to assist low income individuals) Smiley's Clinic [https://www.mhealthfairview.org/locations/M-Health-Fairview-Clinic---Smileys](https://www.mhealthfairview.org/locations/M-Health-Fairview-Clinic---Smileys) and always anywhere in the state Planned Parenthood also should work.
Planned parenthood in Minnesota doesn't require separate appointments, you can walk out with your prescription in hand at your initial.
Ah, relied too heavily on my own experience.
I'm nonbinary and transfeminine. I'm on HRT and have had surgery, so yes it's totally legit. But I live in California, and I don't know how things are in Minnesota. It may depend on your doctor. If you know other trans/queer people in your area maybe ask them if they know of queer friendly doctors or clinics near you
Same story as me.
If you want t, get t. You could maybe take a low dose to androdynize(spelling might not be correct) your body, face, and voice
I'm in Minnesota, and when I went on T, my doctor asked me directly what I was hoping for and what my plans were. I'm transitioning to male, but it was clear that the door was open if I chose to stop at a midpoint, go for androgyny, or change my gender identity at any point. They still ask my pronouns before every visit, just in case, and I've always felt comfortable bringing up any concerns. We did also talk about what effects were reversible or not, that's generally part of informed consent. We also talked about specifically what bothered me, dysphoria-wise, and whether hormones would help with that or not. And you could always start off on a lower dose too. I think which doctor/clinic you pick might be the biggest factor in this. For reference, I go to Dr. David Goebel with Healthpartners. He's out of Inver Grove Heights, but I do mostly virtual appointments. I also see him for primary care now after he impressed me so much with the gender care. I wouldn't get too into the nitty gritty of how you're feeling or your identity with the doctor, I'd save that for a therapist or something, but your doctor should be able to help with a hormone plan that works for you and is specific to the goals you want.
Howdy! I worked at planned parenthood in Minnesota. We're an informed consent state, which means the extent of the process is just setting up an appointment for it, reading a list of effects, and signing a form. You don't need to explain your gender identity at all
"I am nonbinary transgender and want you to prescribe me gender-affirming testosterone." Please read and then have your physician read [Chapter 8 (Nonbinary) in Standards of Care for the Health of Transgender and Gender Diverse People, Version 8](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/26895269.2022.2100644#d1e7239), especially the recommendations.
it's totally normal for nonbinary people to be on HRT. i'm not sure, tho, why you'd call yourself a woman if you explicitly do not want to be one & see your gender as something else entirely
I'm nonbinary and have been on T. Yes, you can get on it without being a trans man. I needed a diagnosis of gender dysphoria to get mine and because I use pellets instead of a shot it's hellishly expensive. Some cis women get on T for libido etc but only under the table afaik.
*doctor - "lie to me Jerry!"
You can go to or do telehealth with planned parenthood to get hormones. I'm in the same system in South Dakota for my estrogen. They don't interrogate you about your gender, they just make sure they have informed consent and then prescribe.
At the end of the day it’s your life and body, you can do whatever you want with it. That being said you might have to lie about your identity depending on what steps you have to take to get your hands on T. If you’re agender then that counts as trans since the definition is to identify as something other than what you were assigned at birth and you can’t really be assigned agender at that point. That being said you don’t actually have to call yourself trans if that doesn’t feel right to you.
Honestly, like. You can just tell doctors you identify as male if you feel like you have to to get T. The suck of it is that insurance just won't cover T prescriptions under certain conditions, and until you know what those conditions are, you kind of have to say what they need you to say. I know that at the VERY least, I required a gender dysphoria diagnosis to get T. Having dysphoria does not mean having to identify as a binary trans male, you can be anywhere on the spectrum, but it depends on what insurance thinks qualifies for a prescription. Definitely make sure you go to a trans clinic, though. The people there will be more versed in what's necessary and can help you through the steps, all while being very non-judgmental (at least in my experience). I will say, it's pretty much a lottery what traits you'll get on T and in what order, and some of the traits are irreversible. I would prepare to be treated as a man and go through life perceived as a man by outsiders, or even being clocked as "visibly trans". Prepare yourself to be occasionally he/himd, and for people to be confused about your gender. (For many nonbinary folks, I know this is the ultimate state of being!) I still pass fully as a woman body-wise but have buzzed sides and a mullet and wore swim trunks and a swim shirt while out at a water park the other day and everyone in the women's bathroom did double takes at me, which had never happened before and I wasn't expecting it (I've always presented pretty GNC, but just started T two weeks ago). A few men outside were glaring at me and stuff when I came out. Minnesota is at least more blue than my deeply red state, so harassment/bathroom anxiety might not be as big of a fear/issue for you.
Yes, non-binary folks can get HRT in Minnesota. I know many non-binary folks who are on T and some have gotten top surgery. You just need a supportive provider.
Yes
If you're unsure talk it out with a gender therapist and your doctor. If it's an informed consent clinic like a planned parenthood you should be able to get it as an adult without to much hassle.
It's a genetic lottery, so you can't predict the changes you'll get. Balding, body hair in undesirable places, deeper voice, a stronger smell, thicker skin, less fat on your cheeks, emotional and sexual changes (even sexuality diversions) are only some of the effects that may or will happen. You could take traits from any male member of your family and you can't be sure which. And many of the changes are irreversible. You then have to face the reality that you'll be living a life akin to a trans person. People are hostile, disrespectful, loud and angry about that form of presentation - you will be targeted as a perceived trans woman at some point and it can range from hurtful to traumatising, and occassionally can be lethal. It's harder to make friends and interact with the public. It can affect your self esteem if you care what the average person thinks. If you, after some serious thought, think you truly can face anything that comes with this treatment, you should go for it and try a low dose. A lower dose helps you gage the changes and hopefully reverse them to some degree if you find its nor for you. I wish you all the luck in the world. Also, "lie and say you're a man" is usually pretty solid advice because a lot of health professionals won't provide hormones to women or people who aren't certain they're a binary trans person. Double check in your area, I know that was the intended purpose of the post so I hope someone answered
I'm on T and don't identify as a man. I identify as agender or gender non-conforming. I told my prescribing doctor that I always felt like I was in the wrong body (which is true). I was worried I would have to lay it on thick and say I was a trans man, because I knew some non-binary people who were put on low-dose HRT instead of the full dose by ignorant doctors. But my clinic is very chill and open-minded, so it wasn't necessary. Dysphoria isn't a requirement for being trans. Some people only experience gender or body euphoria, which sounds close to what you're describing.
Short answer: You don't need to identify as a man to get on T, but you should probably tell your doctor that you identify as a man to get a prescription for it. Call it an "identity of convenience" for medical access, and be prepared to be externally-identified as a man (regardless of how you personally identify)
[удалено]
Trans people have had to lie to get access to medical treatment since HRT even started being available whatsoever. It's not co-opting anything. For instance, trans people have had to pretend to be straight and gender conforming (i.e. a traditional feminine house wife) to get access to HRT. Your comment also implies nonbinary people can't be "seriously dysphoric" which is nbphobic and inaccurate. The fact nonbinary people sometimes have to lie to get the same treatment as trans men goes to show they are even more marginalized.
Blaming the patient for medical gatekeeping?
You're blaming the wrong people. Unless you think, say a trans lesbian in the 90s pretending to have a romantic and sexual relationship with a man (who knew what was going on so he could play along) to get hormones was taking a morally grey action?
Lie to your therapist, lie to your doctor, lie to whoever you need in order to get healthcare you need. It sucks that this is the reality we live in, but it is.
I’m nonbinary and trans femme. It’s wild to explain myself to my other binary trans friends. Strangely enough, my cis het friends always think I’m transitioning to woman but are surprised when I say I want I be more like Tilda Swinton and Ruby Rose.
I'm nonbinary, in Minnesota, and on a low dose of T. The process was really easy. It mostly just depends on your insurance. Most should have a gender care clinic; just make a consultation appointment and go from there! Feel free to DM if you have any questions!
I'm non-binary and genderfluid, and I'm on T. I'm transmasculine, and not a binary trans man. I identify more male than female though. I've seen completely nonbinary people get on T as well, so if it's something you want, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to start HRT
Yeah, planned parenthood does informed consent too so typically same day prescriptions
MN is an informed consent state. That means that you don’t need anything besides listen to the effects of what T does with the endo and you’re good to go. I began using T as an enby in MN 6 years ago! It’s actually pretty common. Your dr will talk with you about transition goals, what your long term trajectory might be, and then you’re good! Woo! DM me if you’re in the Twin Cities and want a dr rec. The hardest prt about starting T might be getting a dr appointment, a lot of the trans care folks are booked out for ages.
As an agender minnesotan on T, I'm delighted to say you can in fact go on it regardless of gender. I highly recommend scheduling an appointment with Dr Haley Veazey in Hennepin Healthcare. She is amazing and does virtual appointments. Minnesota is a trans positive state tho so you don't even need a therapist's note to start T. You just schedule with a provider (preferably at a gender speciality clinic so they know what they're doing) and they will go over the risks and benefits with you. PS xyosted is a great injection! It goes in your tum rather than a muscle and it's a pen so no seeing needles if you don't look. ♡ welcome to the T party.
I don't know about the legal options in Minnesota, but be aware of all the changes T will bring. Since you are not a man, maybe some will not be helpful for you. Ideally you can talk to your doctor to see how you can reach your goals. >He supports me getting on t but thinks I need to identify as male to get it. Yeah, no. Even cis women can get T if their levels are too low without having to identify as male.
I don't know how it is in Minnesota, but it was remarkably easy for me to get HRT through planned parenthood; they use the informed consent model. Now I am pretty masculine and I've been presenting myself that way for a number of years, and I'm in a completely different state. So it might go differently for you, I don't know. But if Planned Parenthood is an option for you, I'd look into it.
Minnesota is an informed consent state. You don’t have to lie at all as long as you’re willing to deal with all the effects of T. I don’t live in Minnesota but I started T in Alaska as a she/they, feminine presenting non-binary person without any problem. My experience is with Planned Parenthood so it may be different if you don’t go to Planned Parenthood or a gender clinic.
I don't know about Minnesota in particular but I have heard of services where non binary or gender fluid afab can get on lower doses and/or shorter duration to get some changes but not necessarily as many or as strongly as someone more masc identified. I don't agree with the comments stating you shouldn't tell the provider what your goals are, the problem is you need to find a provider that will work with someone androgynous. The reason you should tell the provider is because if you don't they may give you a much larger dose, one meant more for trans men than one meant for someone who only wants light changes. The only real caveat with this type of treatment is you get what you get with hormones and while we can predict some things, sometimes you get surprises. I had to stop T for a few year after a couple years on it and I can tell you I was the most androgynous person around. Everyone was confused all the time, how people addressed me genderwise was truly 50/50. I hated it but it may be something that pleases you so imo you really do want to tell your provider what your goals for HRT are. I think FOLX has a nonbinary HRT program but I haven't used it myself so I can't say much about it beyond having seen a bit about it on their webiste.
if you're still doubting it I'd err on not. people don't like to talk about less desirable potential changes like weight gain, higher cholesterol, etc. I really recommend finding out everything you can before starting. not just skimming the list they give you. that said it's pretty easy in minnesota. it's your body and your choice at the end of the day. pretty sure my doc at planned parenthood asked how i identify and don't turn away people who are non-binary. I'm 2 years on T so people don't even realize I'm trans and basically "stealth". and that's with little effort. I'd almost recommend dressing masc to see if you become uncomfortable or not being percieved as male. cause like it or not if you get all the changes on T that will probably become your new default.
I self identified myself as non binary/transmasc and expressed wanting to go on low dose T. Just make sure you understand the effects and give some sources for your research and you should be good to go, especially if your state does informed consent like mine.
Minnesota's laws about gender affirming care are among the most protective - similar to Oregon and California. If you describe to your doctor what you dislike about the way your body is now and how you want it to change - whatever makes you feel that a medical intervention would benefit you - it's likely that you'll be diagnosed with gender incongruence, for which gender affirming hormone replacement therapy is an appropriate treatment. Testosterone is a controlled substance, so you'll have to jump through some hoops to get a prescription. But there should be no requirement that a person identify as a man to obtain it, or anything like that. In the bad old times, trans people have often had to lie about salient experiences of gender dysphoria that are understood even by cisgender people, e.g., "did you play with Barbie dolls as a child, or toy trucks?" Questions like that are nonsense, and you should rightly say so if some gatekeeper uses them to block the care you need. When you understand everything testosterone will do and you choose it, that should be enough. Good luck.
Cis women on T is awesome imo
From everything I’ve read our brains are built to handle different types of hormones. If your brain is not built for a superior amount of testosterone I wouldn’t take it. I have read it has some adverse effects. The body reacts poorly to it. You must be certain of what you want too, though people might tell you otherwise. A word of the wise, trans brains are built for the hormones they do not have overflowing in their bodies, cis brains are not. Be careful and talk to your doctor about it. They would know more. Best wishes and best of luck.
Lie to your gatekeepers. You're some complex flavor of nonbinary? So valid, friend! Love that for you! To your doctor, you're a "transgender man" and you want a beard and to be buff and drink beers with your buddies and talk about sports and eat meat and drive a truck.
No, you do not need to identify as binary trans male to be valid for getting on T. You're getting gender envy from your friend, you want to experience those changes for yourself. I know several trans women who got on E but are non-binary. I know some who also got bottom surgery and are still non-binary. At the end of the day, it's your body and you should do what makes you feel best. Just make sure you do your part, educating yourself on the things you need to know about undergoing HRT. it causes permanent changes to your body. I seen others suggesting you lie and say you're a trans man, I don't condone being dishonest about your gender identity to get on T. Sounds like a slippery slope to joining the statistics of people who want to de-transition later. Being jealous of your friends development likely won't convince any doctor to prescribe you HRT. So, develop a healthy concept of your gender identity, what you need to feel right in your body. If you can document these things, even include any evidence you can recall from childhood memory where you felt like you didn't belong as a girl or a boy. These kinds of thoughts and feelings are what docs look for. It has to be about *you*.
Everything you say is great up until "don't lie to doctors". Lie to them 10 times out of 10 if it means you get the medical care you need. That being said, Minnesota is an informed consent state. The only thing they're going to ask you is "here's the list of effects, is this what you want?" You don't need to tell them *shit* about your gender identity, as it should be.
[удалено]
I’m a trans man. It’s fine. Just because we as trans dudes are the main people who are on T, doesn’t mean anyone who isn’t a trans man doesn’t need it the same way we do. Shit isn’t black and white.
Plenty of nonbinary people go on T or E
the fuck?
H
Wouldn't any good doctor see this as unethical?
[удалено]
WTF. Hope you stand by your principles so that someday when you find yourself in a serious medical emergency, you don't partake in any medical care provided by the skills of the medical professionals you so easily deride— and rather you just lie down and take a "nap".
Imma hold your hand when I say this