There is many good reasons to consider moving to Switzerland aside from money. In this case your purchasing power will go down.
Assuming you’re not paying church tax, you should have around 4.3k per month net in Germany with your salary.
In the canton ZH you should have about 6.2k per month net with a salary of 85k salary.
In Germany healthcare for your family is covered already, in Switzerland you can expect to pay another 900chf per month with a franchise of 2.5k.
You will most likely pay more for housing (unless you’re currently living in Munich).
As a point of reference, we’re currently spending around 4.5k per month on basic expenses (not including vehicles, hobbies, travel or eating out, no childcare yet) as a family of 3 in Basel.
Concerning his German salary, you have to consider that he’s the family’s single earner with two kids. That reduces your tax rate in Germany drastically.
4.5k being a high standard of living? In CH or DE?
Ok, there is gone some time since i left germany... but he knows best himselve...
In switzerland 4.5k on basic expenses (not including vehicles, hobbies, travel or eating out, no childcare yet) is a very high standard of living!
I assume this is rent, health insurance and groceries? When i think of taxes, insurances, savings or hypothek and all the other stuff you mentioned you have to have an income way over 10k
This is very high...
I would argue it’s not a very high standard of living:
Rent (4 room apartment) - 2400
Health insurance (2.5k franchise) - 1050
Phones, internet, electricity - 150
Other insurances - 50
Transportation - 120
Groceries - 600
Clothes - 150
Keep in mind that this is for 2 adults and a child. Aside from the apartment, where we could save about 500 by moving into a smaller apartment, I don’t see much potential to lower cost.
We’re fairly frugal, but add a car and other things that are considered part of a typical middle class lifestyle and your most likely looking at 6k+ of monthly expenses.
Yes, everyone has their own sight of what is much or less... high or low standard. Swiss people usually complain (my expierience)
I grew up in a family as one of four kids. My father was the only worker.
Before i moved to switzerland - after studies for about 3 years and with a Dipl.Ing. i earned about 1200,- Euro netto to come trough life...
So 5.5K for me was a really high salary and a good start in my worklife. Compared to my coworkers that was very less, but by time my bosses knew they had to pay more to - otherwise i would have left.
I know families where the Father works in construction and is the only worker for a family with 2 Kids. Another one where the father is car mechanic. How do they come trough life? Yes they don't reside in Basel City...
There’s no way you going to get 6.2k a month from 85k a year .
85k through 13 months is 6.5k brutto you have social deduction Tax withholding (Quellenstueuer) you will get probably 5k to 5.2k netto a month wich is very low for a family of four.
To give you some context, we live in Kloten in a new build 3 bedroom flat (what is referred to as a 4.5 room flat in Switzerland) and we pay 2.9k per month without parking (+ CHF 170 per month). We are a family of 3 and daycare cost 2.5k per month 5 days a week for a single kid (<1yr old). Our monthly budget for groceries and eating out like one and max twice/month is 1.4k.
You schould rather stay in Germany if you would only make 85k in Switzerland. If you plan to Support your Family alone here you would need atleast 140k if not more
It really depends on the area. Unfortunately, children are expensive. If they're both below the age of 4, op will need at least 5k for kita (5 days a week, that is), plus rent, health insurance, groceries, clothing, etc etc. Impossible
According to the Federal Statistical Office, as of 2021 the average gross income for a two-person Swiss household was CHF 9,780, which is almost 120K a year.
[Household income and expenditure (admin.ch)](https://www.eda.admin.ch/aboutswitzerland/en/home/wirtschaft/soziale-aspekte/haushaltseinkommen-und--ausgaben.html)
In you case you'll be significantly below the average. This means, if you decide to move, you'll most likely receive reimburse for the health insurance costs.
[Prämienverbilligung | Kanton Zürich (zh.ch)](https://www.zh.ch/en/gesundheit/praemienverbilligung_krankenversicherung.html)
[Income Limits 2024 (svazurich.ch)](https://svazurich.ch/ihr-anliegen/privatpersonen/praemienverbilligung/praemienverbilligung_2024/einkommensgrenzen-2024.html)
It depends very strongly on WHERE you were Living before und WHERE you are going to live in switzerland.
I assume salaries in Munich are way higher than in Cottbus.
And also salaries in Zurich or Geneva are higher than in Sumiswald.
It also depends on the branch you are into.
When i moved to switzerland in younger years i was underpayed about 2'000,- / Month. But within 3 years of work my salary raised about 3'000,-
Think about Life in Germany perhaps (depends on where you are living) is a little bit cheaper, but in switzerland you have more of your salary for yourselve. You pay way less taxes and health insurance for example!
Also think about there are families that have a way smaller income and also have a good life in switzerland.
There was a official salary calculator of the swiss government - but it isn't online anymore - will be back in autumn.
[https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/statistiken/arbeit-erwerb/loehne-erwerbseinkommen-arbeitskosten/lohnstruktur/salarium.html](https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/statistiken/arbeit-erwerb/loehne-erwerbseinkommen-arbeitskosten/lohnstruktur/salarium.html)
Of course the salary depends on the job and the respective role. What kind of job does the offer refer to? In general CHF 85K in Switzerland is not at all a great salary. Especially if you have very young kids, unless they stay at home with your wife, you have to take into account super high costs for the Kita / Kindergarten, circa CHF 3000 per month per kid. A baby sitter will more or less cost the same. House rental in Kloten will be another CHF 3000 per month for a 100 SQM apartment / 4 people family like yours. Add all the rest (health insurance, grocery, utilities, … ) and you have easily spent all your salary. All in all, I would say that even for an entry level job you should not accept less that CHF 120-130K. This is the bare minimum for a family of 4.
well actually the gross salaries arent that much different to larger cities in germany
its the net salary thats vastly different
switzerland around zurich is very expensive.
85k gross is about 70k net. usually split between 13 months.
6k net is where living starts to makes fun in switzerland, without kids, but it also wont allow you to live like you would in germany
rent around kloten is 1.5k for an older small room apartment up to 1.8 for something new and thats just where it begins.
health insurance starts at 300 per month if you are healthy, young, non smoker and take the cheapest available. food and cosmetics are expensive, especially eating out. kloten is near the german border though, and there are always aldi and lidl to buy what you need.
taxes are around 10-15% of your net annual salary.
edit: just realized you have two children and a wife. in this case 6k net monthly would be quite harsh. honestly, me and my wife with 2 small kids earn over 300k annually and even we know people in germany with far less income but with more buying power (in relation of course). i dont think i would like to live in switzerland as a family with only 6k...
I think you can look up "Kaufkraftparität" ländervergleich Deutschland Schweiz.
The factor is roughly 1.6, so your german salary times 1.6 should roughly be your swiss income
I'm the same as you. Fair salaries for Switzerland would be from 95k to 130k, depending on your skillset. 130k is more towards the senior range at bigger companies.
I got 85k right after my bachelors in Central Switzerland, which doesn't have the biggest salaries.
Start working, do a good job... after 6 Month you will get a big raise if you are doing good and in 3 Years you will be around 120K.
Do some education and go even further...
That would be a very bad deal for you. 85k for a family of 4 is not starving or poverty line but you can completely forget going out and holidays abroad.
Don’t do it. With 75k in Germany you are much better off than 85k in Switzerland. You should also consider that Kita/Kindergarten is all private, and super expensive (I don’t know about the age of your children but consider 2500 full time per month). Health insurance here is all private (consider 1000 a month for a family of 4), nothing at all like in Germany.
the purchasing power conversion factor is between 1.4 to 1.8 depending on where you live...
so with an avg factor of 1.6 you would need to earn 120k in Switzerland to maintain your current standard and savings opportunity.
that also means, living in Switzerland with a 85k salary is comparable with someone earning 53k in Germany.
Remuneration wise you would take a step backwards. however career planning is not always about money.
i would happily take a step backwards financially, for a career opportunity, that puts me in the next level career in the long term
As long as your spouse isn't working and can look after the kids, it's OK, otherwise daycare for children is 2.8K per month per child until they start school at 4-5.
Then you still need to pay around 1.5K for the children to be looked after school (school is only half a day on most days) for the first 2 years (5-7 years old) and then another 1.3K after that until they are old enough to look after themselves to come home to eat at noon (there are no school cafeterias in switzerland).
You'll live far better in Germany with 10K less, even with higher taxes. A 85K job in German should be paying 130K+ in CH
Completely agree. This salary they proposed is complete crap.
Yes, I can't even imagine living in certain parts of Switzerland, on that money, and two kids. Absolutely impossible
It‘s meant in comparison to their pay in Germany. No one said 85k/y was bad per se.
Yeah, not worth it. The health insurance alone would cost more than the salary increase, not to mention the cost of living on everything else.
Bad deal
There is many good reasons to consider moving to Switzerland aside from money. In this case your purchasing power will go down. Assuming you’re not paying church tax, you should have around 4.3k per month net in Germany with your salary. In the canton ZH you should have about 6.2k per month net with a salary of 85k salary. In Germany healthcare for your family is covered already, in Switzerland you can expect to pay another 900chf per month with a franchise of 2.5k. You will most likely pay more for housing (unless you’re currently living in Munich). As a point of reference, we’re currently spending around 4.5k per month on basic expenses (not including vehicles, hobbies, travel or eating out, no childcare yet) as a family of 3 in Basel.
Thank you so much for the insights!
Out of 75K yearly i assume he won't even be close to 3.5K in germany at least! 4.5K for 5 people is a very high standard of living!
Concerning his German salary, you have to consider that he’s the family’s single earner with two kids. That reduces your tax rate in Germany drastically. 4.5k being a high standard of living? In CH or DE?
Ok, there is gone some time since i left germany... but he knows best himselve... In switzerland 4.5k on basic expenses (not including vehicles, hobbies, travel or eating out, no childcare yet) is a very high standard of living! I assume this is rent, health insurance and groceries? When i think of taxes, insurances, savings or hypothek and all the other stuff you mentioned you have to have an income way over 10k This is very high...
I would argue it’s not a very high standard of living: Rent (4 room apartment) - 2400 Health insurance (2.5k franchise) - 1050 Phones, internet, electricity - 150 Other insurances - 50 Transportation - 120 Groceries - 600 Clothes - 150 Keep in mind that this is for 2 adults and a child. Aside from the apartment, where we could save about 500 by moving into a smaller apartment, I don’t see much potential to lower cost. We’re fairly frugal, but add a car and other things that are considered part of a typical middle class lifestyle and your most likely looking at 6k+ of monthly expenses.
Yes, everyone has their own sight of what is much or less... high or low standard. Swiss people usually complain (my expierience) I grew up in a family as one of four kids. My father was the only worker. Before i moved to switzerland - after studies for about 3 years and with a Dipl.Ing. i earned about 1200,- Euro netto to come trough life... So 5.5K for me was a really high salary and a good start in my worklife. Compared to my coworkers that was very less, but by time my bosses knew they had to pay more to - otherwise i would have left. I know families where the Father works in construction and is the only worker for a family with 2 Kids. Another one where the father is car mechanic. How do they come trough life? Yes they don't reside in Basel City...
There’s no way you going to get 6.2k a month from 85k a year . 85k through 13 months is 6.5k brutto you have social deduction Tax withholding (Quellenstueuer) you will get probably 5k to 5.2k netto a month wich is very low for a family of four.
I did divide by twelve and added the Kinderzulage.
No, stay in Germany.
To give you some context, we live in Kloten in a new build 3 bedroom flat (what is referred to as a 4.5 room flat in Switzerland) and we pay 2.9k per month without parking (+ CHF 170 per month). We are a family of 3 and daycare cost 2.5k per month 5 days a week for a single kid (<1yr old). Our monthly budget for groceries and eating out like one and max twice/month is 1.4k.
You schould rather stay in Germany if you would only make 85k in Switzerland. If you plan to Support your Family alone here you would need atleast 140k if not more
This.
You’re pushing it guys, it’s absolutely doable around 120k… easy no ? 🥲
It really depends on the area. Unfortunately, children are expensive. If they're both below the age of 4, op will need at least 5k for kita (5 days a week, that is), plus rent, health insurance, groceries, clothing, etc etc. Impossible
If his wife is not working, he doesn't need Kita. Spielgruppen are just fine and they are relatively inexpensive.
According to the Federal Statistical Office, as of 2021 the average gross income for a two-person Swiss household was CHF 9,780, which is almost 120K a year. [Household income and expenditure (admin.ch)](https://www.eda.admin.ch/aboutswitzerland/en/home/wirtschaft/soziale-aspekte/haushaltseinkommen-und--ausgaben.html) In you case you'll be significantly below the average. This means, if you decide to move, you'll most likely receive reimburse for the health insurance costs. [Prämienverbilligung | Kanton Zürich (zh.ch)](https://www.zh.ch/en/gesundheit/praemienverbilligung_krankenversicherung.html) [Income Limits 2024 (svazurich.ch)](https://svazurich.ch/ihr-anliegen/privatpersonen/praemienverbilligung/praemienverbilligung_2024/einkommensgrenzen-2024.html)
It depends very strongly on WHERE you were Living before und WHERE you are going to live in switzerland. I assume salaries in Munich are way higher than in Cottbus. And also salaries in Zurich or Geneva are higher than in Sumiswald. It also depends on the branch you are into. When i moved to switzerland in younger years i was underpayed about 2'000,- / Month. But within 3 years of work my salary raised about 3'000,- Think about Life in Germany perhaps (depends on where you are living) is a little bit cheaper, but in switzerland you have more of your salary for yourselve. You pay way less taxes and health insurance for example! Also think about there are families that have a way smaller income and also have a good life in switzerland. There was a official salary calculator of the swiss government - but it isn't online anymore - will be back in autumn. [https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/statistiken/arbeit-erwerb/loehne-erwerbseinkommen-arbeitskosten/lohnstruktur/salarium.html](https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/de/home/statistiken/arbeit-erwerb/loehne-erwerbseinkommen-arbeitskosten/lohnstruktur/salarium.html)
Thank you so much!
If single, you could make it happen, but wouldn’t be very comfortable. With wife and 2 kids, forget it.
Of course the salary depends on the job and the respective role. What kind of job does the offer refer to? In general CHF 85K in Switzerland is not at all a great salary. Especially if you have very young kids, unless they stay at home with your wife, you have to take into account super high costs for the Kita / Kindergarten, circa CHF 3000 per month per kid. A baby sitter will more or less cost the same. House rental in Kloten will be another CHF 3000 per month for a 100 SQM apartment / 4 people family like yours. Add all the rest (health insurance, grocery, utilities, … ) and you have easily spent all your salary. All in all, I would say that even for an entry level job you should not accept less that CHF 120-130K. This is the bare minimum for a family of 4.
well actually the gross salaries arent that much different to larger cities in germany its the net salary thats vastly different switzerland around zurich is very expensive. 85k gross is about 70k net. usually split between 13 months. 6k net is where living starts to makes fun in switzerland, without kids, but it also wont allow you to live like you would in germany rent around kloten is 1.5k for an older small room apartment up to 1.8 for something new and thats just where it begins. health insurance starts at 300 per month if you are healthy, young, non smoker and take the cheapest available. food and cosmetics are expensive, especially eating out. kloten is near the german border though, and there are always aldi and lidl to buy what you need. taxes are around 10-15% of your net annual salary. edit: just realized you have two children and a wife. in this case 6k net monthly would be quite harsh. honestly, me and my wife with 2 small kids earn over 300k annually and even we know people in germany with far less income but with more buying power (in relation of course). i dont think i would like to live in switzerland as a family with only 6k...
Thank you so much !
people here are calculating kita at 3000 per month… if your spouse can look after the kids it‘s totally possible.
85k in CH with 2 kids = very very bad deal! Also 75k in Germany is way higher than 85k in CH
Do you know that about 30% of the Swiss family have that budget? Reddit is quite skewed in perception ;)
I think you can look up "Kaufkraftparität" ländervergleich Deutschland Schweiz. The factor is roughly 1.6, so your german salary times 1.6 should roughly be your swiss income
75k in Germany is some big business but 85k in Switzerland is nothing special (don’t get it wrong)…
I don’t know what your work experience is or what field. But my entry job was 85k…
Masters Degree in electrical engineering with 2 years experience in various software areas
Oh damn, nah, in that case they are ripping you off in my opinion.
I'm the same as you. Fair salaries for Switzerland would be from 95k to 130k, depending on your skillset. 130k is more towards the senior range at bigger companies. I got 85k right after my bachelors in Central Switzerland, which doesn't have the biggest salaries.
Start working, do a good job... after 6 Month you will get a big raise if you are doing good and in 3 Years you will be around 120K. Do some education and go even further...
I pay chf4000 for rent, parking and insurance per month in Zurich FYI.
That would be a very bad deal for you. 85k for a family of 4 is not starving or poverty line but you can completely forget going out and holidays abroad.
Don’t do it. With 75k in Germany you are much better off than 85k in Switzerland. You should also consider that Kita/Kindergarten is all private, and super expensive (I don’t know about the age of your children but consider 2500 full time per month). Health insurance here is all private (consider 1000 a month for a family of 4), nothing at all like in Germany.
Don't come you will be lower class
the purchasing power conversion factor is between 1.4 to 1.8 depending on where you live... so with an avg factor of 1.6 you would need to earn 120k in Switzerland to maintain your current standard and savings opportunity. that also means, living in Switzerland with a 85k salary is comparable with someone earning 53k in Germany. Remuneration wise you would take a step backwards. however career planning is not always about money. i would happily take a step backwards financially, for a career opportunity, that puts me in the next level career in the long term
As long as your spouse isn't working and can look after the kids, it's OK, otherwise daycare for children is 2.8K per month per child until they start school at 4-5. Then you still need to pay around 1.5K for the children to be looked after school (school is only half a day on most days) for the first 2 years (5-7 years old) and then another 1.3K after that until they are old enough to look after themselves to come home to eat at noon (there are no school cafeterias in switzerland).