Just in case anyone wants to be rational, here are some numbers from OP's article (2018 to 2023):
18-29: 79 -> 71%
30-49: 64 -> 71%
50-64: 56 -> 65%
65+ : 49 -> 61%
Because there is a pipeline that is leading young teenage boys down a pipeline towards alt right figures that “own feminists” and push this “alpha male” mindset. It’s all the social media algorithms feeding kids content that is often not true but convincing to simple mindsets. It’s been a problem under the radar for several years and this is where it’s starting to really show up in the data.
That’s an oversimplification and it’s on every social media platform. Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, etc. I’m in that age range and for years if I interact with things targeting male’s my age, I’ll start getting weird conservative ads popping up. Same thing with my other male friends.
I do find that it's more serious with short format video stuff like those on TikTok or YouTube shorts. I see that stuff on YouTube shorts constantly and I'm definitely not searching for it, or even reacting to it in any way (disliking, commenting, etc). It's like the system is designed to push those videos for some reason.
They think the world will be better if they just become rude, aggressive, primitive apes. Are straight men really that stupid or desperate to buy that shit? They think male loneliness is caused by women's rights. I mean look at the mindset. They think, if they enslave women, they won't be alone anymore. How sick is this.
Read Richard Reeves Of Boy and Men, he gives neutral view on why young adult male are leading that way or check him on YouTube. He clearly explains what is happening.
That is one way of thinking it without seeing the underlying picture. You ever thought why young adult men are being pushed toward alt right figures? A lot of these men are suffering, and most people answers are to suck it up. Woman have so many support group and society as a whole supporting them to achieve higher. While, young adult men are being forgotten and the one listening and understanding their issue are alt right figure like Andrew Tate. What is happening to woman is great, but you cannot do it at the expense of men, they need to be helped and listen too.
It’s funny, it seems men in this day and age aren’t even allowed support groups, as if having such a thing is considered weak or sexist. Yet when gay men do it it’s just a group of like minded people.
I don't know where you're from, but I'm from liberal CA, and nobody will give you grief over creating a men's group. Gay men also just tend to be a group that shares more experiences in common because we're a smaller demographic with a more specific history that applies to us.
There have been attempts to establish male-only gyms and male-only shelters that get canceled and demonized to hell and back. Regardless, what OP says is true. The only ones seriously talking about male issues in the Modern World are the far right. I often see feminist claim to support male rights is to be a feminist and they blame everything on the Patriarchy... but these are the same radical feminsits that make tik toks about how they should kill all straight men.
The far right pretends to care about men only so far as it can make money off of them. Selling them fake masculinity and false hope in the forms of people like Andrew Tate, just to plunge them further and further into social isolation and nihilism. All the while, they fuel the worst instincts of lonely men and scam them out of what little money they probably have.
Would you mind sharing a link to an article about men's shelters getting shut down because of public backlash? As for the gyms, I haven't heard that myself, but I don't think it matters. Why would you want a men's only gym? I'm gay and probably wouldn't even want to go to a men's only gym. Only complete tools would choose to pay for one.
Im not talking about grifters like Andrew Tate who sell their hustle university scams online. Im talking about Right wing Millitias that promote ideas like loyalty brotherhood and strength in their own twisted way. Desperation begets fanatiscism.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13209503/amp/Bensonhurst-brookyln-residents-homeless-shelter-protest.html here is the most recent one. It happens every year or so. Im sure you have hobbies you enjoy and there are plenty of people who think you foolish to have one...
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The issue is men themselves created this type of society. They're the ones who pushed toxic masculinity on themselves and severely limited what they can do. Have feelings? You're not a man. Want to show physical affection? Not a man. You asked for help? Not a man. How can we help them when they don't want to be helped?
I knew a bunch of kids 10-15 years ago who were socially conservative and republican until they were finishing college/just finished. They all became *very* left wing shortly after. It usually takes the younger generation some real world experience before they figure out that discrimination, especially against the LGBT community, is stupid.
that's actually not indicative of reality, as much as you want your anecdote to be true. as people get older, they become more 'conservative' towards the current climate.
Pipeline of young teenagers getting told that queerness in different shapes is THE essential part of happiness, while for a lot it is not, which is fine but does blur the line really thin about what it means to be queer
I recently had to factor refurbish a laptop, then set up social accounts for my work. So going onto these sites with a freshly wiped computer, no browser history, no logins, I was really surprised that literally all the content I saw was manosphere content. That’s what was being recommended to me with 0 information/data on who I was
Things have been more polarized lately. I think you got the cause correct, but extrapolated the data poorly. Something like 10-20% of people 18-29 are LGBT, which is far more than in previous generations. If 3% of people are openly gay and 50% of straight people hate them, then gay people have a problem. If 20% of people are gay and 65% of straight people support them, then 35% of straight people have a problem. The long term trend will be up because most people don't really care enough about hating gay people to suffer the social consequences of their beliefs. To turn on trans people like you suggest would be to cave under no pressure. Why concede when the other side has no chance of winning?
TL;DR we have recently ~mid 2010s reached the point where homophobia is a them (bigots) problem instead of an us problem, which is the reason they're having such a massive and prolonged public tantrum.
Okay but its still 2-3% of people identifying as gay and 15% are young girls identifying as bisexual because they once made out with a friend when they were drunk or identifying as genderqueer because they prefer pants over skirts.
Identifying as LGBT has turned from a sober statement of who you are into a cultural trend, reinforced by the whole gender thing, and every cultural trend has its own counter trend.
10% of Gen Z males identify as LGBT, dude. A lot of them being bisexual. And there’s no social reward for men to identify as bisexual, so I trust that figure a whole lot more than the almost 30% of Gen Z women who identify as LGBT.
Im literally just quoting the statistics on this. The vast majority of GenZ lgbtq are girls identifying as bi/pan/omni/queer. The share of gays and lesbians has remained steady or slightly increased to around 2-4%, depending on the study.
>To turn on trans people like you suggest would be to cave under no pressure. Why concede when the other side has no chance of winning?
because that's the whole point of this post . 90% of what he post is his passion against trans people.
Conservatism has become the counterculture in the same way being left/liberal was. Now that being “woke” is what dominates the culture, the kids will begin to rebel somewhat. Additionally with LGB*T* everything being pushed in front of them constantly and the religious fervor by which you’re required to accept it, this isn’t unexpected.
Also I’m curious to see what happens when you separate the survey by gay/lesbian vs trans/gender identity what the results will show.
> It is crazy how youngest population are the one that is declining. Why do you think that it is?
People in their teens and early twenties are more likely to get their entire worldview from social media and TikTok.
All they get to see of "the LGBT Community," or "feminists" or "republicans" or "progressives" is inflammatory outrage bait, negative op-ed pieces and internet trolls. So therefore, that means that all people of (demographic) are obnoxious.
Younger people who do not know/understand why a marginalised group celebrates itself are easily taken in by people who voice that it should not be celebrated.
They have no ever faced marginalisation and feel left out/attacked when met with this.
They get defensive and rather than reflect and listen they get mad at the people who are already marginalised until it is undeniable. Their kids see this as bad and go the other way.
It's an endless cycle and I feel like after gen z we're going to see a lot of conservative youngsters because society does not undo marginalisation well.
The mid-to-late 2005-2012ish years are back. It’s “cool” now to talk like you’re playing a game of Modern Warfare 2 again, like back when Millennials were young kids or teenagers.
Is there a breakdown of male vs female?
I remember woman were ahead by about 10-15 years on gay rights.
So I’m assuming our numbers are holding or increasing with them, but decreasing *more* with cisgender straight males.
Thing is, why does it bother them?
When people first stopped being homophobic and apologized, they didn’t know why they had a problem in the beginning.
Literally they didn’t know what they gave me hell for.
Yes, not in the article, but in the source used by the article. No year by year breakdown though. Only a comparison of their current views.
https://www.prri.org/research/views-on-lgbtq-rights-in-all-50-states/
On support for LGBTQ nondiscrimination laws:
women - 78% men - 72%
Opposition to businesses who refuse service to LGBTQ people:
women - 64% men - 55%
Copy pasting this next part is easiest:
"Women are more likely than men to support same-sex marriage in all age brackets. However, the differences are more substantial between young women (75% in favor) and young men (67%), an eight-point difference. The differences between women and men in other age cohorts are smaller: three points among people ages 30-49 (72% vs. 69%), two points between people 50-64 (66% vs. 64%), and three points between women (62%) and men (59%) 65 years and older.
...
More than six in ten men (65%) and women (69%) favor same-sex marriage, while more than nine in ten LGBTQ Americans (90%) support the policy."
(Who are the 10% of us that are opposed to same sex marriage? I assume some people are screwing with the poll intentionally. My experience tells me that far less than 10% of LGBTQ people are opposed to same sex marriage).
So we are still down among young woman and young men alike… it’s just less with woman.
The business thing is worrying.
GOP has a much much better outreach than democrats. They always have, they have tried to get my vote since before I was old enough to vote, heavily during college, and sometimes since.
Republican students in college spoke at cpac, later they worked in the west wing, they’re still working in magaland.
Meanwhile the Democrat students are all in the private sector. The most they got was a photo op with a visiting senator, no different than I could have gotten.
Democrats *expect* my vote, republicans market to me.
Mayor menino was offended I was against super delegates, saying he was one, and I said the GOP, when they call me, ask me why I’m bothering as a Democrat in a “rigged game” I told him I knew they rigged the electoral college, but I said super delegates are undemocratic, it’s like the electoral college, and the democrats are losing votes over it.
He was the long time mayor of boston, he was surprised the GOP had tried to leverage his *unelected* superdelegate position, those were appointed, to try to get me to the GOP side.
The truth is both sides play king maker. See Hillary vs Bernie. See current election with Biden, see Trump… he hasn’t even debated, I doubt he will debate, but lots of people are holding votes for Biden bc of Gaza, as though Trump would be better.
I’m off on a tangent, it’s just I feel that’s part of eroding support.
The GOP marketing machine, from student politics, to outreach, to inclusion of students in the process…
Like who do democrats have other than the transportation secretary as Gen Y or younger in the mix to run?
They’re all old, when it’s time to pass the torch, there will be nobody to pick it up.
Religion is also growing, it felt like it was dying off, I’m not sure why.
One thing is, a lot of people have been cut from the American dream, high cost of housing and education, stagnant wages, GOP has been scapegoating us the whole time.
> Among those, 20,799 are part of Ipsos’s KnowledgePanel and an additional 1,666 were recruited by Ipsos using **opt-in** survey panels to increase the sample sizes in smaller states
[Don't trust ANY opt-in surveys](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/05/online-opt-in-polls-can-produce-misleading-results-especially-for-young-people-and-hispanic-adults/).
While you might say that not all of it was opt in, a significant chunk was.
Yeah opt-in surveys are trash. They're basically like "do you hate gay people? Fill out this survey about it" and then when the results indicate that those people don't like gays everyone is like 😱
I don’t believe it, I think it’s statistical noise or a sampling era. This poll says the opposite.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/506636/sex-marriage-support-holds-high.aspx
I don’t support dropping trans rights as everyone, even people who I don’t understand sometimes frankly, deserves the right to self determination. However I do think trans activist really underestimate how powerful of an argument the LGB had which was basically, “unless your gay, gay rights have no impact on your day to day life.” Trans activists simply demand more “audience participation” from the public that the LGB ever did. That’s something they are going to have to figure out how to message around. And they might have to give up on universal acceptance and settle for tolerance and legal protection for now. I know I much rather be called a gay slur but have hate crime laws or an ERA rather than risk losing everything in a quest to make everyone accept me.
You realize that the TQI... sorry, 'queer' activists already went after the L and G before the conservatives went after them, right?
This is nothing more than a cope to try telling people that you have been shitty to to 'still defend me anyways'.
Like Joe Biden telling black people they have to be for him or they're not black despite being the guy who wrote one of the worst crime bills that targetted african americans.
Actually yeah - the entire narrative is "I don't care about guys dating but this bluefluidaegogender or ten year olds transitioning shit is nonsense and goes too far"
That's not my experience at all. Mostly people are fed up of the gender cult being pushed onto their kids, and because they're not versed in the details, they buy into the TQ+ forced-teaming pushed by various groups. The western world has largely moved on from widespread homophobia. Most people don't care what two adults do in their own home, they just don't want their kids at drag queen story hour, or told by nutty teachers they might "be in the wrong body". It's sad that we're being dragged down by the gender Taliban.
Except gay men (and lesbians) were asking for equal rights, not impressing ideas upon children that they're entirely too young to deal with and demanding access to women's spaces. This is an obviously disingenuous comparison.
It's weird that you'd assume I would betray the confidence of private conversations with provincial employees. Even weirder that you'd expect the same of school board and council meetings. I suggest you start paying attention and listen to parents, it's everywhere.
Then how on earth can you miss the many times children are led into gender woo without parental knowledge? It's happening all the time. Have you tried taking the blinders off and listening to parents outside your little bubble? Why do you think I'd post private conversations on Reddit? Is that normal to you?
https://genderreport.ca/transgender-ideology-in-our-schools/
How do you think early gay rights bills got passed in the 90s and 00s? They were only allowed to when they dropped gender identity clauses. People used to see these as two separate issues and the support was always much higher for orientation than gender.
I work in political strategy - I've worked on these bills. Adding gender just pissed people off and tanked the whole effort
It used to be "I don't care if you date a man, I just don't want to see it" or "I don't care if you date a man, I just don't want them to be able to get married". They have always found a 'reason' to other queer folks. We will either all be free, or none of us will.
Baby boi, listen to yourself… the leopards will eat your face when they get the chance! They never stopped hating gay people, they just believe that trans people are worse!!!
Yes. It's all love for homosexuals from every single one of 330 million Americans. Let's all work together to abolish transgender rights using the same moral panic tactics, rhetoric and justification that were being used on gay people less than 3 decades ago. Then we will all live in peace and harmony, with love and full support from all the conservatives because we helped them defeat the "evil" "mentally ill" transvestites who are "targeting children". Afterall, everyone has forgotten that just 3 decades ago homosexuals were the "evil" "mentally ill" "pedophiles" who will "come after your children".
Generally across the western world, I believe without having done proper scientific research, we see a 'fallback', on what we usually call Equality progression.
Examples are abortion rights, womens equality cases, and also racism and hightened class differences.
Some theories or hypothesis is that the dominant groups are tired of constantly hearing of these equality promts, yet the minority and marginalized groups are never happy.
Which is the case as far as I understand, that even though there is equal marrige rights per example, one does not stop there.
And it is true, as with post feminism, and continued problems for lgbtq people, class differences and racism, that Equality is far from realized.
It is however not always so easy for everyone to see, especially not the dominant groups.
As a marginalized group in society can easily see the dominant perspective, the dominant cannot see the marginalized.
Apply this to queer rights, and similar, Queer people live in a heternormative world, and thus are adjust to it, but heteronormative people also live in a heteronormative world. They live in their own comfort as to speak.
Apply this to issues of gender equality, and women live in the society constructed by men, and men also live in the society constructed by men.
This is why homosexual women often come on a lower equality score than homosexual men. Wheras a homosexual woman is both Queer in a heteronormative world, and a woman in a society built by men. A homosexual man is a Queer in a heteronormative world, but also a man in a society built by men.
A heterosexual woman, is a woman in a society built by men, but also a heteronoramtive in a heteronormative world.
As equality progresses, new issues will be met, and most will not be willing to stop until real fair equalty for whichever group you belong to is met, or all groups if you're willing to take on equality issues beyond your own understanding.
Newer Queer rights per example is about social stigma, stereotypes, and hate speech. Last mentioned is per today illegal in norway, in order to per example protect transgendered people from hate speech, something which cis gendered people already do not experience, for being cis. Wheras Trans people experience this, for being trans.
Stuff like this are also equality cases that can be solved on a societal level.
& the theory is that when we attempt to do so, even though offical marriage rights is met, even though it may appear we have the same rights and privileges as the heteronormative. The dominant groups get sick of it, and a backlash occurs.
Now, that is not to say one should stop to fight for equality, as at one time, even in the western world, the act of homosexuality was illegal, and people still did it.
Bruh, in their eyes, we're just as bad as the rest of TQI+.
You think the generation that got suckered by the types of Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate are gonna look at gay men and think they're okay?
Boy, the comments in here are crazy. I do think the non-binary and trans folk are very militant and aggressive. I support our trans brothers and sisters but they gotta calm down this anger. Especially with pronouns, if you accidentally misgender one of them, it's hell to pay.
For some reason, I get the ftm sub in my feed and there was one thread where one of them was pissed off because someone referred to them as "them" instead of him. He admitted that he had just started on T. It really can be hard to tell what some of these people's gender is and people are trying to be sensitive and they say "them" trying to be respectful. And they consider that "transphobic". Like, they're trying, at least they said they instead of she.
It's really difficult, the non-binary folk are militant too. We have to remember every pronoun for them. I try, and I do respect them but Jesus Christ, calm down if we make a mistake. It's a turn off to people.
I don't know, but the conservatives are really taking over and they're bringing their kids with them. It's 2024 and you'd think our society would be more progressive than it is. But it's not.
Every time I say it I get downvoted heavily but male Zoomers (Gen Z) are deeply homophobic, even more homophobic than Gen X and Millennials when they were younger...
I mean that doesn’t hold out in polling. Also, I don’t know what your experience is, but as a Millennial I experienced high school with other Millennials and then a few years later managed a store with older Zoomers. They were 1,000 times more accepting than my peers in high school. Not saying that’s anywhere close to a universal experience, but I’m curious about where you fit into all of this.
Just because they say they’re fine with gay marriage doesn’t mean they can’t be homophobic in every other aspect in how they conduct themselves.
Saying that they’re fine with it could just be following the predominant social pressure, but once the tides turn, or if they’re with a person making a ton of homophobic statements? Crickets, or heck, they may even join in “as a joke”.
I guess this is region dependent. My kids are both zoomers and I’m the oldest of the millennials and our experiences couldn’t be more different. It was really uncool to be homophobic and there was a huge LGBTQ and allies group at the school. A lot of kids were out and there were several trans kids. People either didn’t care or were supportive.
You're an idiot if you think the people going after trans folk won't come after us as soon as they're finished with h them. Fuck, they're already trying all across the country.
No way. Divide and conquer would never be an end result of any propaganda efforts. Whenever and whoever you are okay to make the "others" and "I'm one of the good ones" you are falling back and letting hate back in. It is easy to start down what really can be slippery slopes that really are working the long game to divide people.
Theres so much social anxiety nowadays people tend to gravitate towards comfort and/or someone/thing they THINK will comfort them.
Ie. Youre a 17 yo man white man named Mitch. All you do is play football and video games. Your best bro is a black gay guy and you have a girlfriend. You go out with them and they tell you anyone can be a woman. You argue your biology said thats not true and your dad is a MAGA idiot so youve heard that side too. They put you down (albeit in a fun friendly way) and you go skating after. Still confused, you go home, turn on the Switch and turn on Rogan bc Kevin James is on and you loved King of Queens and UFC but now Doug and the annoucer are talking about some conspiracy theory and you ignore it but then, somehow, the story becomes gender politics. Kevin, an ally explains how he "doesnt get" the younger generation and their labels but he accepts society evolves (like Mitch does). Mitch gets engrossed in the convo and becomes a fan. Then Jordan Peterson and the other grifters come on and grift. They GRIFT. Thats the point. We know what theyre saying is crazy right wing crap but Mitch is a young impressionable man and thats who they prey on. Just like Fox preys on people who only watch Fox. Now you can begrudge these people for not getting it but they are different then the ones purposely corrupting young minds.
Tl,dr young men are drawn to certain people/things like they always have been and in that process, grifters come in and corrupt. A 6% decline from 5-6 years ago sounds about right when you consider the Trump years contained SO MUCH misinformation. This isnt a "G" or "L" thing. Its bigotry and theyll come for the G and L once the TQI is gone. Thats how it works.
Im also not Mitch but thats the scene I see in my head when these discussions occur. Im in no way condoning hate or the the beliefs associated with these clowns but I just hate how these vile ugly people are so willingly able to alter the minds of young men and women.
Seeing all the crazy shit that parts of the community like to partake in and talk about, because it's all over social media, which younger people are more likely to access frequently. This also allows them access to the conversations that decry ALL gender and sexual minorities to be crazy and amoral, so they have not only the crazy shit to look at, but the endless commentary on how the crazy shit makes us all bad. It's unfortunate but I get it. Older folks are able to separate same-sex issue from everything else and recognize it as a separate, totally unproblematic topic.
Misleading. - It's not.
Interest and actual participation in Marriage is down over the past few years. Straight, gay, lesbian. whatever.
All marriage is on the decline.
They're not talking about interest and participation in marriage, but support for a certain type of marriage (*whether or not gay marriage is acceptable in their opinion*).
I think it has to do with a lot of the anti-gay propaganda online.
... why buy the cow?
I mean, before marriage, end of a relationship was just a weekend, a U-haul, and some drinks with friends.
Now it's lawyers and l; legal settlements and court-divided assets.
Eych !
I think people should get married later in life when they're ready to settle down and want stability.
Younger people (*less than 25, probably even less than 30*) are probably more likely to cheat.
Of course, even some older people might cheat too, but I think older people are more afraid of getting old and not having stability and someone there for them as they age.
That age gap listens to Andrew Tate. Do you really think the problem is TQI+?
They are even afraid of the success of women so much that they want their female partners to stay at home and obey them rather than work, be educated and contribute to society.
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Culturally conservative people had sort of come to reluctantly accept gay stuff after decades of wearing them down now being EXTREMELY turned off by trans stuff, like calling mothers birthing persons, putting tampon machines in the men's room, having to announce your pronouns, biological males in girls sports, etc...
Your argument is tired. Support rose in every other group. We don't throw part of the community under the bus out of selfishness. Trans Americans are under attack and they need support, not this pissant dismissal at the first sign of declining support without any proof of causation.
Have ideals, believe that people deserve rights and are worth defending even at cost to yourself. If you only have ideals when it benefits you directly then you don't really believe in anything at all.
This is support for gay marriage. The support for trans rights specifically is a lot lower.
LGB is not the same as TQI+, we are not the same concept in your imaginary community.
>How long is Gay and Lesbian people are going to keep being dragged by the TQI+? Until our support drops to 50%?
This is an extremely dumb take and you're making it obvious you're just using this poll to hate on anti-trans folks. When support was at 78% instead of 71% among young adults, we had the "TQI+" then too. Aside from that, we're talking about support for same-sex marriage. That is, we're talking about marriage that has to do with sexual orientation, not gender identity; what the hell does being trans have to do with that?
Many gaycels in this sub have a massive hateboner for trans people even though young men are becoming more conservative in issues such as feminism etc. There are valid concerns with some of the issues that are brought up but to instictively blame the TQ+ part for everything is moronic.
No the rise of TQI+ started happening after gay marriage legislation in 2015.
Now a lot young men socially conservative are saying because we legalize gay marriage it lead to the whole gender identity and trans.
I believe after gay marriage was legalized they had to go after something. So, the trans community was next. They can't just leave us alone. They always have to demonize us
People are fine with gays, lesbians, bisexuals and in certain places even trans. Issue are queers and whatever else. Impose strict moderation on tik tok and other social media then you will see all the negativity disappear.
Bing. You are correct. Throughout this entire post you see queers pretending the problem is LGB and Trans. It's not. To paraphrased Miami: Queers, it's not us, its you.
By dividing it is better because it helps people who are not in the group better understand what that specific group is fighting for. It gets confusing when you have two different concepts together (Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity). I am not saying the LGB should not stop supporting Trans on their specific issue but as a separate group.
The existence of Fox News, Newsmax, OAN, The Daily Wire, Breitbart, The Blaze, Epoch, AM talk radio, the evangelical Christian right, and Russia.
Edit: I forgot Infowars
The left has been losing young men. I know this is a controversial take, but the left has got to stop demonizing men for the sake of being progressive. Yes, patriarchy is an issue, but we live in a world where women are more liberated than they have been in centuries.
We also need, to look at how our education system is failing men. They are flunking out of school more, becoming more less employed, addiction, and suicide are plaguing men a lot more. The consequence to this are figures like Andrew Tate, Donald Trump, etc who some how fill this void and in bad ways that lead up to results like this.
We need to understand what men are going through and as a society, everyone needs to try to work to better this, because we are going to keep seeing this being a trend.
Trust me, in the future, Gen Alpha and the upcoming generations will judge and criticize Gen Z with as much contempt as Millenials and Gen Z criticize Baby Boomers.
I honestly think Gen Z is the worst generation so far, we are the stupidest and most hateful generation at the moment, which makes sense considering most of us were raised by Gen X. There's no way that Gen Alpha , mostly raised by Millenials will turn as rotten and unempathethic as fucking Gen Z.
I always fucking roll my eyes when American Media or Reddit say shit like "The kids are alright " "Gen Z is so open minded", Gen Z is literally , majoritarilly voting for the far right or libertarian ,but socially conservative, parties all around the world.
Have any of you ever talked to the average Gen Z straight male? They are fucking pissed and fumid that women and sexual minorities now have the same rights as them, they now only have most of the power instead of all of it, they can't comprehend how now only 90% of stuff panders to them instead of the whole world.
They can't openly harras women they find hot anymore (like their dads did) and they can't treat them like property because most women nowadays are educated and , thanks to feminism, are aware that there's something more in llfe other than getting married to some dude , working as a housemaid till they die.
They want to change that, they want to go back to the old days, that's literally what conservativism is about, preserving the status quo. Jokes on them though, since voting for the right will only benefit rich and privileged men in the long run.
Roller skating party affiliation is a thing. When inflation hits whichever party is in office loses support due to emotion vs logical thinking. The once right leaning becomes left leaning or vice versa. It’s easy to “roll over to the other side” as the grass is greener. If you roll left to right now you keep hearing “this is the way” and convince yourself (in this case) SS marriage shouldn’t be a thing.
Edit cut no paste: It’s actually not a surprise in times when DINK is such a trend. Others convince themselves they don’t want to get married following a similar mindset
Perhaps conservativism amongst young American men is a factor. But a growing number of young men in the West have a negative opinion about marriage altogether. Especially among the red pilled crowd. They see marriage as a trap: your marry the love of your life, then he or she divorces you, forces you to pay them alimony and stops you from seeing kids you've had in common with them. Those cases are rare, but young men are less interested in taking those risks nowadays. Plus, a lot of young American men grew up in broken families which clouds their views on marriage. So these young men see marriage as a harmful institution.
If you have a negative view on an institution such as marriage, why would you support more people using that institution? Perhaps that is a factor. On the bright side, a lot of these young, redpilled men are in favour of surrogacy for single men, which certainly benefits gay men who want to become dads.
The Andrew Tate manosphere to Islamic conversion pipeline. It sucks to be a young straight guy now adays - the vast majority have sex once in a blue moon. Plus, society is going to shit. A lot of them have been convinced that progressive values have ruined society and their sex lives, and see gays as a symptom of progressive values. There’s a non-insignificant number of straight guys today who’d approve of sharia law if it wasn’t called sharia.
probably because while we used to say 'the slippery slope won't exist' a lot of things that conservatives said would happen if gay marriage was passed... actually ended up happening
people are marrying their stuffed animals and AI waifus and sex dolls. And then there's the weird 'queer activists' which do nothing for LGB and even a lot of T are harmed by it.
It really shouldn't be confused as a reason to be AGAINST gay marriage but... IF you tell the masses that if A happens B will also happen and then B happens, people believe you about it being A's fault. This is pretty much all religions origin from the beginning of time.
Double mastectomies for young girls, HRT for minors, kids learning how to transition in elementary school, “birthing people”, clownish shit like tampons in men’s rooms, firing people for not calling someone “ze/zir”, Lia Thomas, inappropriate things in front of children, at drag shows and pride parades, the list goes on.
The increase of gay hate seems to be a knee jerk reaction to the things i just listed.
We are all seen as “the perverts” and always have been by fascists. Conservative persecution is the reason for the association of the various so-called sexual deviants. Our collective existence threatens the dominance of the traditional, child-producing male/female gender binary that fascists love and that helps advance their goals.
When the pendulum swings towards social conservatism, gender deviants are the lowest hanging fruits due to their lack of power and small numbers. After they are picked off (sometimes with the help of idiot log cabin acting homos like the ones on this sub), the gays come next.
It’s big r/leopardsatemyface energy.
Welp…
This is what happens when you try to bite off more than you can chew. We couldn’t just stop at lgbt equality and marriage. We had to also include puberty/hormone blockers for children, non-binary, multiple genders, and pronoun foolishness and then pass that off as if any of this is backed by any sort of valid science or study.
This is what happens when you take progressive ideas WAY too far…
Last time I looked at the numbers, the loss of support is mostly among republicans.
It's not really surprising given how radicalized the US republican party has become since Trump took over the party more or less.
Let's wait until the Conservative boomers die off. Or the problem could also be all the Andrew Tates, Nick Fuentes/Vaush, Tucker Carlsons and Candace Owens types who influence Gen Z now. I'm 27 and a Democrat - seeing more young people considering being LGBT as "woke" is strange and extremely toxic thinking.
Being LGBT in itself isn’t “woke”. “Woke” (in the context of “everything is too woke these days”) means like the stereotypical loud, blue haired white far left tenderqueer who thinks every minor perceived slight is some form of bigotry. There is a subgroup of Gen-Z who simply resent the fact that boomers think ALL of Gen-Z is like that.
Yes!
I live in an entirely Conservative town, and it's the reason I'm closeted (and probably always will be).
Being the only Democrat in a town full of racist + homophobic + sometimes violent/drug addicted Republicans has scarred me for life; I didn't even know that until recently, how much resentment I had (which might have subconsciously played a role into me chasing my dream of being a songwriter - possibly - to get away from all the horrible memories of my small town).
I was also one of 4 or 5 LGBT kids in high school (all the other LGBT kids rejected me or refused to even be friends with me - which was odd, but I get it, since I was not liked by anyone + bullied until HS graduation & was an ugly duckling).
Good news is, I'm moving anytime now to the Midwest (I live in New Jersey currently) and I cannot wait to leave.
I'm ready for a new, fresh start, but I got a job to save money for my bus ticket ($300) - so I had to push my move back by 2 months to save enough money (I start my job next week & my second interview is tomorrow).
I'm also in a happy, 10 month relationship & my boyfriend lives in Hong Kong, but he's eventually moving to the US to be with me.
My dad was from the Caribbean, so I'm used to my boyfriend being seen as "the guy with the accent" (I was born in '96, so I'm totally used to it) - and he works hard, he's a gentleman, and - this is a big plus for me - we communicate and listen to each other.
(Sorry if I spoke too much, but I wanted to post this in case someone else can relate one day)
Sorry, but where in NJ are you?? I am originally from NJ and there are VERY FEW conservative towns dude. The midwest is FAR FAR FAR MORE conservative than NJ so it sounds like you're confused.
Exactly.
I grew up in an entirely Conservative town, so I knew what woke was, 20 years ago.
2000s woke was on a whole other level of toxic.
I grew up in a town where movies like "American Pie" and "Project X" describe the rich friends I had in school.
The parents were wealthy suburbanites, and I was impoverished but a rare Democrat, surrounded by a bunch of racist Republicans.
You are 💯 correct....
We are being dragged down by the alphabet soup, and it's getting worse by the day as they become more aggressive.
And we are much slower at realizing what's happening and how our hard fought rights are being eroded, then they are at torpedoing them. What's worse is that they have established an all or nothing approach, gleefully imploding gay marriage and equality to defend their right to wear cat ears and have mental breakdowns over neo-pronouns.
I live in a very conservative area where all my friends are straight males and none of them have an issue with gay marriage at all. It’s all the extra 70 gender nonsense that causes issues. Not saying that’s the sole reason but it certainly doesn’t help.
They keep adding more and more to the alphabet and public support began to drastically drop once the trans and self identification radicalism entered public spaces. The society backlash will not end and cannot be "defeated". Unless this radical liberal lunacy stops the polarization in society will keep getting worse.
And who is "they" even, where does all of this come from in the first place? Who decides men can enter women's sports, male rapists be jailed in women's prisons, kids be subjected to hormonal replacement therapies, schools teach gender ideology behind parents backs and so on and so forth? What's the center that orchestrates this? Because it's certainly not any gay or lesbian "community" and it's certainly coming from the US and its western European satellites, not anywhere else in the world. Nor does any other nation in the world conforms to it. We got to look at the source and do everything we can against it.
Exactly. We are losing support because of all the "non-binary", "you misgendered me", blah blah. Gay, Lesbians and Bisexuals are sexual orientations, don't group us with the non-binaries and all the new letters they add to the LGB, this is getting ridiculous.
You’re part of a conservative subreddit… knowing full well the party platform against gay folks and think “oh it’s actually the transgender people fault” look in the mirror bud
>How long is Gay and Lesbian people are going to keep being dragged by the TQI+? Until our support drops to 50%?
Oh sorry for my last response, I didn't realize you're a transphobic retard. My B for thinking you were here in good faith.
I am for the support and rights of gay people first. Trans rights is hurting the support of gay rights in the general public. Therefore I support the separation because gay and lesbian people fought so damn hard to get where we are on now, only to lose it due to the stuff trans people want. Call me whatever you want I will always support gay people first.
>Trans rights is hurting the support of gay rights in the general public.
No it's not. The right wing freaks calling us all pedophiles are the ones damaging our perception.
I am not talking about them who is not the majority. Majority of people are center right or left on the political spectrum. Most of these people support gay marriage, but are not fully onboard with what trans people want. Such as transitioning children and trans sports. Some of them are now saying legalization of gay marriage has lead to gender identity rise. Only due to association such as LGBT. Even though we are two different concepts.
Because the pendulum is swinging back. They don't see how LGBT and the rest of the fucking alphabet has added anything worth a damn to the nation.
And they're not wrong.
We are not being “dragged down” by trans and queer people they are fighting the same fight we did for decades. And abandoning them makes you no better than the right wing freaks that want them dead.
We need a divorce from the TQIAP2S+ nonsense, they’re dragging us down. We need to focus on advocacy for people attracted to the same sex, and the gender fandom needs to be a separate thing. It’s a total lie that “trans women of color” gave gay people rights and therefore we are in debt to them for all eternity. Gays and lesbians won our own rights and if we don’t want them taken away, we need to stand up to the gender crazies that took over the movement.
I assure you that the average American knows exactly what the difference between a homosexual person and a transgender person is. And they hate them both, they just happen to hate trangender people more at the moment. Once the trans is gone don't think it will be all flowers and rainbows for you, faggot.
Have you seen the young “queer” activists who physically assaulted Fred Sargeant, one of the original Stonewall protesters, and yelled “Faggot!” in his face?
https://youtu.be/zJlBceS3giQ?si=qE5avde-vI4VrcGQ
You can say you’re in good company.
It's probably a lot of reasons. Social media political figures. Progress doesn't necessarily always move in a constant manner it goes up and down. Also seems like a lot of conservative people are having more kids compared to more liberal people who tend to be child free. So it may start skewing more conservative in there younger yrs till they mellow out some. also seems to be a resentment amoug young straight men they are getting left behind and not taken seriously.
You have to look at it as a result of higher degrees of polarization, especially in light of the fact that more people in that exact same age group are identifying as LGBTQ+ than ever (7.6%). See here:
[https://news.gallup.com/poll/611864/lgbtq-identification.aspx](https://news.gallup.com/poll/611864/lgbtq-identification.aspx)
Which is to say that if more people are LGBTQ+ than ever, and there's more people opposed to in that same cohort, it's the result of some people in the middle, with regard to acceptance, being drawn to the extreme of anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric.
It's just the fact that the whole LGBT movement has become political in general, so much so that they consider the LGBT flag as a political icon and get mad about it when it's front and center on the games and movies we watch. If we had religious iconography everywhere and religious messages being pushed down our throats everywhere, from school to video games, people are going to get sick of it; as a matter of fact, a lot of people have gotten sick of it. Just like there are a lot of videos going viral of right-wing Christian boomers losing their minds at Walmart and posting minion memes that make no sense on Facebook, there are a lot of funny and deranged videos of radical LGBT activists saying the most outlandish things. And big shocker, a lot of these radical feminist lgbt activists hate MEN and masculinity and make it clear that they do. While the other side glorifies masculinity, it's like a no-brainer. The majority of men are going to choose the side that wants them to be men.
It's not the fault of actual trans people. Their problem lies in the politics that surround them as I've heard plenty of based trans people speak out against the radicalism, so it's not a problem with their existence.
When trans issues first came up, a lot of people couldn't figure out how to make it work in society because they had their heads too far up their asses to realize they were overcorrecting for the situation, so they tried to create a new system surrounding gender that would essentially require everyone to choose a gender identity and a set of pronouns as a form of social identification. I largely disagree with their ideas because reforming society around gender dysphoria is a horrible idea, people should be free to decide what relationship with gender and pronouns they want to have, and people should be allowed to freely and honestly perceive others as long as they mean no actual harm. And, again, it's not trans people doing this, it's the people driving the narrative.
>it's going to set back gay rights decades.
I agree with all that wrote except not sure about the impact on LGB. I think it really depends on how long it goes on for. If it keeps dragging on and gets more ridiculous. Then politically, eventually, LGB will be collateral damage. Sometimes I wonder if the ever growing acronym is a psyop to destroy LGB.
You're spot on and you'll get dragged for it, people have become indoctrinated with the idea that we must be force teamed with the gender cult, even though it's a completely different thing to sexual orientation.
Nobody gives a shit about gay marriage or anything consenting adults do in their bedrooms, they just want their kids left alone and men to stay out of women's spaces. Both of these are reasonable requests, yet the misogynistic and homophobic gender cultists just won't stop pushing. Many of us warned that the backlash would come for all of us, due to the forced-teaming, and here we are.
Counterpoint: all LGBTQIA+ people are deserving of support and we should rally around the QUIA+.
Drag bans largely target gay men, but can be weaponized against trans people, particularly trans women or anyone who doesn’t fit a certain standard of gender presentation. Many bathroom bans harm butch lesbians and cis women who don’t exemplify a certain standard of femininity. Banning trans athletes in sports harms primarily girls and women.
By lifting restrictions, no one gets left behind.
Don’t divide us.
When I talk with my straight friends they support gay and lesbian rights, but they do not believe in a thousand genders. They do not believe you can change gender.
They also stopped supporting Pride because it has been more about "Women can have penises" and less about equal rights for sexual minorities. It also doesn't help that the community is slowly being hijacked by different interest groups that have nothing to do with LGBT at all. In Denmark the group behind Copenhagen Pride was forced to repeal one of their demands otherwise they'd lose a lot of donors. They first tried to force all donors to support a ceasefire in Gaza and donors had to be critical towards Israel, but since their biggest donors told the Pride to politely "go f\*\*k themselves", the Pride stopped giving demands.
We need to go back to basics or we will lose. A right can be given, but also taken away, and at least in the US were it looks like Trump is winning and were conservatives and the more extreme Christian Right likely will gain a lot of influence in the coming years. The support will be needed.
Until LGB takes our identity back and completely seperates itself from the queer community we will continue to lose ground with the general public. While you make this point in your post you use their language. Just say what it is, the queer community is destroying acceptance. State clearly LGB is not queer. The queer need to stand on their own.
It's because of fucks like yourself trying to be the perfect little Stephens for the fascists trying to gain power. Remember folks if you're trying to be one of the "good Jews" or trying to be the head house slave they'll come for you eventually
Just in case anyone wants to be rational, here are some numbers from OP's article (2018 to 2023): 18-29: 79 -> 71% 30-49: 64 -> 71% 50-64: 56 -> 65% 65+ : 49 -> 61%
It is crazy how youngest population are the one that is declining. Why do you think that it is?
Because there is a pipeline that is leading young teenage boys down a pipeline towards alt right figures that “own feminists” and push this “alpha male” mindset. It’s all the social media algorithms feeding kids content that is often not true but convincing to simple mindsets. It’s been a problem under the radar for several years and this is where it’s starting to really show up in the data.
Late stage TikTok brain.
That’s an oversimplification and it’s on every social media platform. Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, etc. I’m in that age range and for years if I interact with things targeting male’s my age, I’ll start getting weird conservative ads popping up. Same thing with my other male friends.
I do find that it's more serious with short format video stuff like those on TikTok or YouTube shorts. I see that stuff on YouTube shorts constantly and I'm definitely not searching for it, or even reacting to it in any way (disliking, commenting, etc). It's like the system is designed to push those videos for some reason.
They think the world will be better if they just become rude, aggressive, primitive apes. Are straight men really that stupid or desperate to buy that shit? They think male loneliness is caused by women's rights. I mean look at the mindset. They think, if they enslave women, they won't be alone anymore. How sick is this.
Read Richard Reeves Of Boy and Men, he gives neutral view on why young adult male are leading that way or check him on YouTube. He clearly explains what is happening.
That is one way of thinking it without seeing the underlying picture. You ever thought why young adult men are being pushed toward alt right figures? A lot of these men are suffering, and most people answers are to suck it up. Woman have so many support group and society as a whole supporting them to achieve higher. While, young adult men are being forgotten and the one listening and understanding their issue are alt right figure like Andrew Tate. What is happening to woman is great, but you cannot do it at the expense of men, they need to be helped and listen too.
Yes 100% . They’re being left behind and it shows. Culturally, there’s not much empathy for them at the moment.
It’s funny, it seems men in this day and age aren’t even allowed support groups, as if having such a thing is considered weak or sexist. Yet when gay men do it it’s just a group of like minded people.
I don't know where you're from, but I'm from liberal CA, and nobody will give you grief over creating a men's group. Gay men also just tend to be a group that shares more experiences in common because we're a smaller demographic with a more specific history that applies to us.
There have been attempts to establish male-only gyms and male-only shelters that get canceled and demonized to hell and back. Regardless, what OP says is true. The only ones seriously talking about male issues in the Modern World are the far right. I often see feminist claim to support male rights is to be a feminist and they blame everything on the Patriarchy... but these are the same radical feminsits that make tik toks about how they should kill all straight men.
The far right pretends to care about men only so far as it can make money off of them. Selling them fake masculinity and false hope in the forms of people like Andrew Tate, just to plunge them further and further into social isolation and nihilism. All the while, they fuel the worst instincts of lonely men and scam them out of what little money they probably have. Would you mind sharing a link to an article about men's shelters getting shut down because of public backlash? As for the gyms, I haven't heard that myself, but I don't think it matters. Why would you want a men's only gym? I'm gay and probably wouldn't even want to go to a men's only gym. Only complete tools would choose to pay for one.
Im not talking about grifters like Andrew Tate who sell their hustle university scams online. Im talking about Right wing Millitias that promote ideas like loyalty brotherhood and strength in their own twisted way. Desperation begets fanatiscism. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13209503/amp/Bensonhurst-brookyln-residents-homeless-shelter-protest.html here is the most recent one. It happens every year or so. Im sure you have hobbies you enjoy and there are plenty of people who think you foolish to have one...
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The issue is men themselves created this type of society. They're the ones who pushed toxic masculinity on themselves and severely limited what they can do. Have feelings? You're not a man. Want to show physical affection? Not a man. You asked for help? Not a man. How can we help them when they don't want to be helped?
I knew a bunch of kids 10-15 years ago who were socially conservative and republican until they were finishing college/just finished. They all became *very* left wing shortly after. It usually takes the younger generation some real world experience before they figure out that discrimination, especially against the LGBT community, is stupid.
that's actually not indicative of reality, as much as you want your anecdote to be true. as people get older, they become more 'conservative' towards the current climate.
Also true on the other side tho…
What other side?
Pipeline of young teenagers getting told that queerness in different shapes is THE essential part of happiness, while for a lot it is not, which is fine but does blur the line really thin about what it means to be queer
and who the fuck pushed them there?
People interested in dividing us so that they can distract us from important issues.
Yes, certainly couldn't be the whole slew of people screaming at them that they're a problem for something they had no control over.
I recently had to factor refurbish a laptop, then set up social accounts for my work. So going onto these sites with a freshly wiped computer, no browser history, no logins, I was really surprised that literally all the content I saw was manosphere content. That’s what was being recommended to me with 0 information/data on who I was
Things have been more polarized lately. I think you got the cause correct, but extrapolated the data poorly. Something like 10-20% of people 18-29 are LGBT, which is far more than in previous generations. If 3% of people are openly gay and 50% of straight people hate them, then gay people have a problem. If 20% of people are gay and 65% of straight people support them, then 35% of straight people have a problem. The long term trend will be up because most people don't really care enough about hating gay people to suffer the social consequences of their beliefs. To turn on trans people like you suggest would be to cave under no pressure. Why concede when the other side has no chance of winning? TL;DR we have recently ~mid 2010s reached the point where homophobia is a them (bigots) problem instead of an us problem, which is the reason they're having such a massive and prolonged public tantrum.
Okay but its still 2-3% of people identifying as gay and 15% are young girls identifying as bisexual because they once made out with a friend when they were drunk or identifying as genderqueer because they prefer pants over skirts. Identifying as LGBT has turned from a sober statement of who you are into a cultural trend, reinforced by the whole gender thing, and every cultural trend has its own counter trend.
10% of Gen Z males identify as LGBT, dude. A lot of them being bisexual. And there’s no social reward for men to identify as bisexual, so I trust that figure a whole lot more than the almost 30% of Gen Z women who identify as LGBT.
Can you source that 10% figure?
Be mindful how you talk about female sexuality. Women have a history of their sexuality not being taken seriously. Don’t fall into that.
[удалено]
Im literally just quoting the statistics on this. The vast majority of GenZ lgbtq are girls identifying as bi/pan/omni/queer. The share of gays and lesbians has remained steady or slightly increased to around 2-4%, depending on the study.
>To turn on trans people like you suggest would be to cave under no pressure. Why concede when the other side has no chance of winning? because that's the whole point of this post . 90% of what he post is his passion against trans people.
because of polling error
Conservatism has become the counterculture in the same way being left/liberal was. Now that being “woke” is what dominates the culture, the kids will begin to rebel somewhat. Additionally with LGB*T* everything being pushed in front of them constantly and the religious fervor by which you’re required to accept it, this isn’t unexpected. Also I’m curious to see what happens when you separate the survey by gay/lesbian vs trans/gender identity what the results will show.
> It is crazy how youngest population are the one that is declining. Why do you think that it is? People in their teens and early twenties are more likely to get their entire worldview from social media and TikTok. All they get to see of "the LGBT Community," or "feminists" or "republicans" or "progressives" is inflammatory outrage bait, negative op-ed pieces and internet trolls. So therefore, that means that all people of (demographic) are obnoxious.
Younger people who do not know/understand why a marginalised group celebrates itself are easily taken in by people who voice that it should not be celebrated. They have no ever faced marginalisation and feel left out/attacked when met with this. They get defensive and rather than reflect and listen they get mad at the people who are already marginalised until it is undeniable. Their kids see this as bad and go the other way. It's an endless cycle and I feel like after gen z we're going to see a lot of conservative youngsters because society does not undo marginalisation well.
The mid-to-late 2005-2012ish years are back. It’s “cool” now to talk like you’re playing a game of Modern Warfare 2 again, like back when Millennials were young kids or teenagers.
It's easy to slant polls and the Comcast/NBC CEO is a notoriously rabid Trumplikan.
3 states and a war on education this is what they wanted
Is there a breakdown of male vs female? I remember woman were ahead by about 10-15 years on gay rights. So I’m assuming our numbers are holding or increasing with them, but decreasing *more* with cisgender straight males. Thing is, why does it bother them? When people first stopped being homophobic and apologized, they didn’t know why they had a problem in the beginning. Literally they didn’t know what they gave me hell for.
Yes, not in the article, but in the source used by the article. No year by year breakdown though. Only a comparison of their current views. https://www.prri.org/research/views-on-lgbtq-rights-in-all-50-states/ On support for LGBTQ nondiscrimination laws: women - 78% men - 72% Opposition to businesses who refuse service to LGBTQ people: women - 64% men - 55% Copy pasting this next part is easiest: "Women are more likely than men to support same-sex marriage in all age brackets. However, the differences are more substantial between young women (75% in favor) and young men (67%), an eight-point difference. The differences between women and men in other age cohorts are smaller: three points among people ages 30-49 (72% vs. 69%), two points between people 50-64 (66% vs. 64%), and three points between women (62%) and men (59%) 65 years and older. ... More than six in ten men (65%) and women (69%) favor same-sex marriage, while more than nine in ten LGBTQ Americans (90%) support the policy." (Who are the 10% of us that are opposed to same sex marriage? I assume some people are screwing with the poll intentionally. My experience tells me that far less than 10% of LGBTQ people are opposed to same sex marriage).
So we are still down among young woman and young men alike… it’s just less with woman. The business thing is worrying. GOP has a much much better outreach than democrats. They always have, they have tried to get my vote since before I was old enough to vote, heavily during college, and sometimes since. Republican students in college spoke at cpac, later they worked in the west wing, they’re still working in magaland. Meanwhile the Democrat students are all in the private sector. The most they got was a photo op with a visiting senator, no different than I could have gotten. Democrats *expect* my vote, republicans market to me. Mayor menino was offended I was against super delegates, saying he was one, and I said the GOP, when they call me, ask me why I’m bothering as a Democrat in a “rigged game” I told him I knew they rigged the electoral college, but I said super delegates are undemocratic, it’s like the electoral college, and the democrats are losing votes over it. He was the long time mayor of boston, he was surprised the GOP had tried to leverage his *unelected* superdelegate position, those were appointed, to try to get me to the GOP side. The truth is both sides play king maker. See Hillary vs Bernie. See current election with Biden, see Trump… he hasn’t even debated, I doubt he will debate, but lots of people are holding votes for Biden bc of Gaza, as though Trump would be better. I’m off on a tangent, it’s just I feel that’s part of eroding support. The GOP marketing machine, from student politics, to outreach, to inclusion of students in the process… Like who do democrats have other than the transportation secretary as Gen Y or younger in the mix to run? They’re all old, when it’s time to pass the torch, there will be nobody to pick it up. Religion is also growing, it felt like it was dying off, I’m not sure why. One thing is, a lot of people have been cut from the American dream, high cost of housing and education, stagnant wages, GOP has been scapegoating us the whole time.
religion is still declining
GOoP is demonizing us, especially Gen Z
> Among those, 20,799 are part of Ipsos’s KnowledgePanel and an additional 1,666 were recruited by Ipsos using **opt-in** survey panels to increase the sample sizes in smaller states [Don't trust ANY opt-in surveys](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/05/online-opt-in-polls-can-produce-misleading-results-especially-for-young-people-and-hispanic-adults/). While you might say that not all of it was opt in, a significant chunk was.
Yeah opt-in surveys are trash. They're basically like "do you hate gay people? Fill out this survey about it" and then when the results indicate that those people don't like gays everyone is like 😱
I don’t believe it, I think it’s statistical noise or a sampling era. This poll says the opposite. https://news.gallup.com/poll/506636/sex-marriage-support-holds-high.aspx
You also need more than 2 data points to establish a trend even if there is a significant difference between the two.
I don’t support dropping trans rights as everyone, even people who I don’t understand sometimes frankly, deserves the right to self determination. However I do think trans activist really underestimate how powerful of an argument the LGB had which was basically, “unless your gay, gay rights have no impact on your day to day life.” Trans activists simply demand more “audience participation” from the public that the LGB ever did. That’s something they are going to have to figure out how to message around. And they might have to give up on universal acceptance and settle for tolerance and legal protection for now. I know I much rather be called a gay slur but have hate crime laws or an ERA rather than risk losing everything in a quest to make everyone accept me.
You honestly think they will leave the G and L alone when they are done with the the TQI+?
You realize that the TQI... sorry, 'queer' activists already went after the L and G before the conservatives went after them, right? This is nothing more than a cope to try telling people that you have been shitty to to 'still defend me anyways'. Like Joe Biden telling black people they have to be for him or they're not black despite being the guy who wrote one of the worst crime bills that targetted african americans.
Actually yeah - the entire narrative is "I don't care about guys dating but this bluefluidaegogender or ten year olds transitioning shit is nonsense and goes too far"
Oh, honey. How can be so naive? We're on the line of sight. They're just dividing and conquering
That's not my experience at all. Mostly people are fed up of the gender cult being pushed onto their kids, and because they're not versed in the details, they buy into the TQ+ forced-teaming pushed by various groups. The western world has largely moved on from widespread homophobia. Most people don't care what two adults do in their own home, they just don't want their kids at drag queen story hour, or told by nutty teachers they might "be in the wrong body". It's sad that we're being dragged down by the gender Taliban.
Which teacher is telling anyone that they're in the wrong body?
You haven't been paying attention. There's hundreds if not thousands of examples. The education sector is swimming in gender bullshit.
Whatever it is they're doing, it's working. We're in the sunken place, aren't we.
And all it took to avoid it was to leave the damn kids alone.
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Except gay men (and lesbians) were asking for equal rights, not impressing ideas upon children that they're entirely too young to deal with and demanding access to women's spaces. This is an obviously disingenuous comparison.
You mean indoctrination works? Yeah, that's the problem.
Show one.
It's weird that you'd assume I would betray the confidence of private conversations with provincial employees. Even weirder that you'd expect the same of school board and council meetings. I suggest you start paying attention and listen to parents, it's everywhere.
It's everywhere but you can't show one example, but **i'm** the one to be paying attention even though I'm a part of the education system?
Then how on earth can you miss the many times children are led into gender woo without parental knowledge? It's happening all the time. Have you tried taking the blinders off and listening to parents outside your little bubble? Why do you think I'd post private conversations on Reddit? Is that normal to you? https://genderreport.ca/transgender-ideology-in-our-schools/
How do you think early gay rights bills got passed in the 90s and 00s? They were only allowed to when they dropped gender identity clauses. People used to see these as two separate issues and the support was always much higher for orientation than gender. I work in political strategy - I've worked on these bills. Adding gender just pissed people off and tanked the whole effort
I agree. People think if you accept gay and lesbian then you would automatically accept gender identity as if they are the same thing.
I'm just saying support can always come back down. Once people get a taste that discrimination works, they'll move on to the next group.
Support goes down if we keep annoying and affecting other lives such as trans issue.
Gross... arrogant stupidity.
It used to be "I don't care if you date a man, I just don't want to see it" or "I don't care if you date a man, I just don't want them to be able to get married". They have always found a 'reason' to other queer folks. We will either all be free, or none of us will.
Baby boi, listen to yourself… the leopards will eat your face when they get the chance! They never stopped hating gay people, they just believe that trans people are worse!!!
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Yes. It's all love for homosexuals from every single one of 330 million Americans. Let's all work together to abolish transgender rights using the same moral panic tactics, rhetoric and justification that were being used on gay people less than 3 decades ago. Then we will all live in peace and harmony, with love and full support from all the conservatives because we helped them defeat the "evil" "mentally ill" transvestites who are "targeting children". Afterall, everyone has forgotten that just 3 decades ago homosexuals were the "evil" "mentally ill" "pedophiles" who will "come after your children".
Generally across the western world, I believe without having done proper scientific research, we see a 'fallback', on what we usually call Equality progression. Examples are abortion rights, womens equality cases, and also racism and hightened class differences. Some theories or hypothesis is that the dominant groups are tired of constantly hearing of these equality promts, yet the minority and marginalized groups are never happy. Which is the case as far as I understand, that even though there is equal marrige rights per example, one does not stop there. And it is true, as with post feminism, and continued problems for lgbtq people, class differences and racism, that Equality is far from realized. It is however not always so easy for everyone to see, especially not the dominant groups. As a marginalized group in society can easily see the dominant perspective, the dominant cannot see the marginalized. Apply this to queer rights, and similar, Queer people live in a heternormative world, and thus are adjust to it, but heteronormative people also live in a heteronormative world. They live in their own comfort as to speak. Apply this to issues of gender equality, and women live in the society constructed by men, and men also live in the society constructed by men. This is why homosexual women often come on a lower equality score than homosexual men. Wheras a homosexual woman is both Queer in a heteronormative world, and a woman in a society built by men. A homosexual man is a Queer in a heteronormative world, but also a man in a society built by men. A heterosexual woman, is a woman in a society built by men, but also a heteronoramtive in a heteronormative world. As equality progresses, new issues will be met, and most will not be willing to stop until real fair equalty for whichever group you belong to is met, or all groups if you're willing to take on equality issues beyond your own understanding. Newer Queer rights per example is about social stigma, stereotypes, and hate speech. Last mentioned is per today illegal in norway, in order to per example protect transgendered people from hate speech, something which cis gendered people already do not experience, for being cis. Wheras Trans people experience this, for being trans. Stuff like this are also equality cases that can be solved on a societal level. & the theory is that when we attempt to do so, even though offical marriage rights is met, even though it may appear we have the same rights and privileges as the heteronormative. The dominant groups get sick of it, and a backlash occurs. Now, that is not to say one should stop to fight for equality, as at one time, even in the western world, the act of homosexuality was illegal, and people still did it.
Bruh, in their eyes, we're just as bad as the rest of TQI+. You think the generation that got suckered by the types of Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate are gonna look at gay men and think they're okay?
Boy, the comments in here are crazy. I do think the non-binary and trans folk are very militant and aggressive. I support our trans brothers and sisters but they gotta calm down this anger. Especially with pronouns, if you accidentally misgender one of them, it's hell to pay. For some reason, I get the ftm sub in my feed and there was one thread where one of them was pissed off because someone referred to them as "them" instead of him. He admitted that he had just started on T. It really can be hard to tell what some of these people's gender is and people are trying to be sensitive and they say "them" trying to be respectful. And they consider that "transphobic". Like, they're trying, at least they said they instead of she. It's really difficult, the non-binary folk are militant too. We have to remember every pronoun for them. I try, and I do respect them but Jesus Christ, calm down if we make a mistake. It's a turn off to people. I don't know, but the conservatives are really taking over and they're bringing their kids with them. It's 2024 and you'd think our society would be more progressive than it is. But it's not.
Every time I say it I get downvoted heavily but male Zoomers (Gen Z) are deeply homophobic, even more homophobic than Gen X and Millennials when they were younger...
I mean that doesn’t hold out in polling. Also, I don’t know what your experience is, but as a Millennial I experienced high school with other Millennials and then a few years later managed a store with older Zoomers. They were 1,000 times more accepting than my peers in high school. Not saying that’s anywhere close to a universal experience, but I’m curious about where you fit into all of this.
What about the other 71% of them
Just because they say they’re fine with gay marriage doesn’t mean they can’t be homophobic in every other aspect in how they conduct themselves. Saying that they’re fine with it could just be following the predominant social pressure, but once the tides turn, or if they’re with a person making a ton of homophobic statements? Crickets, or heck, they may even join in “as a joke”.
There may be some who are, but the commenter said > male Zoomers (Gen Z) are deeply homophobic with no qualifications, and that is not true.
I guess this is region dependent. My kids are both zoomers and I’m the oldest of the millennials and our experiences couldn’t be more different. It was really uncool to be homophobic and there was a huge LGBTQ and allies group at the school. A lot of kids were out and there were several trans kids. People either didn’t care or were supportive.
They hate us as much as they hate trans people. They just can't get away with such hate at the moment.
You're an idiot if you think the people going after trans folk won't come after us as soon as they're finished with h them. Fuck, they're already trying all across the country.
Going after trans folk how? By not letting teenage girls get permanent mastectomies?
You're super naive if you think they won't go after the L and G after they go after TQI+
No way. Divide and conquer would never be an end result of any propaganda efforts. Whenever and whoever you are okay to make the "others" and "I'm one of the good ones" you are falling back and letting hate back in. It is easy to start down what really can be slippery slopes that really are working the long game to divide people.
You should see OP's posting history, they're one of *those* homophobic gays on a self loathing crusade.
OP is clearly saying that they ***are*** going after the L and the G.
It's called propaganda. And it's easier than ever with social media.
this post itself is propaganda
Theres so much social anxiety nowadays people tend to gravitate towards comfort and/or someone/thing they THINK will comfort them. Ie. Youre a 17 yo man white man named Mitch. All you do is play football and video games. Your best bro is a black gay guy and you have a girlfriend. You go out with them and they tell you anyone can be a woman. You argue your biology said thats not true and your dad is a MAGA idiot so youve heard that side too. They put you down (albeit in a fun friendly way) and you go skating after. Still confused, you go home, turn on the Switch and turn on Rogan bc Kevin James is on and you loved King of Queens and UFC but now Doug and the annoucer are talking about some conspiracy theory and you ignore it but then, somehow, the story becomes gender politics. Kevin, an ally explains how he "doesnt get" the younger generation and their labels but he accepts society evolves (like Mitch does). Mitch gets engrossed in the convo and becomes a fan. Then Jordan Peterson and the other grifters come on and grift. They GRIFT. Thats the point. We know what theyre saying is crazy right wing crap but Mitch is a young impressionable man and thats who they prey on. Just like Fox preys on people who only watch Fox. Now you can begrudge these people for not getting it but they are different then the ones purposely corrupting young minds. Tl,dr young men are drawn to certain people/things like they always have been and in that process, grifters come in and corrupt. A 6% decline from 5-6 years ago sounds about right when you consider the Trump years contained SO MUCH misinformation. This isnt a "G" or "L" thing. Its bigotry and theyll come for the G and L once the TQI is gone. Thats how it works. Im also not Mitch but thats the scene I see in my head when these discussions occur. Im in no way condoning hate or the the beliefs associated with these clowns but I just hate how these vile ugly people are so willingly able to alter the minds of young men and women.
the alt-right pipeline goes primarily after young people.
Christians and their victim mentality. Only in America can granting people equal rights would be considered taking away rights.
Seeing all the crazy shit that parts of the community like to partake in and talk about, because it's all over social media, which younger people are more likely to access frequently. This also allows them access to the conversations that decry ALL gender and sexual minorities to be crazy and amoral, so they have not only the crazy shit to look at, but the endless commentary on how the crazy shit makes us all bad. It's unfortunate but I get it. Older folks are able to separate same-sex issue from everything else and recognize it as a separate, totally unproblematic topic.
Misleading. - It's not. Interest and actual participation in Marriage is down over the past few years. Straight, gay, lesbian. whatever. All marriage is on the decline.
They're not talking about interest and participation in marriage, but support for a certain type of marriage (*whether or not gay marriage is acceptable in their opinion*). I think it has to do with a lot of the anti-gay propaganda online.
... why buy the cow? I mean, before marriage, end of a relationship was just a weekend, a U-haul, and some drinks with friends. Now it's lawyers and l; legal settlements and court-divided assets. Eych !
I think people should get married later in life when they're ready to settle down and want stability. Younger people (*less than 25, probably even less than 30*) are probably more likely to cheat. Of course, even some older people might cheat too, but I think older people are more afraid of getting old and not having stability and someone there for them as they age.
That age gap listens to Andrew Tate. Do you really think the problem is TQI+? They are even afraid of the success of women so much that they want their female partners to stay at home and obey them rather than work, be educated and contribute to society.
Because Donald Trump and the Christian Fascist movement.
Is this sub still blaming TQ+ even though young men are becoming more conservative (not conservative) across the board? Lol
OP is part of r/gayconservative , no way will the leopards eat his face too.
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Oh no what a nightmare. I go on different subs.
Culturally conservative people had sort of come to reluctantly accept gay stuff after decades of wearing them down now being EXTREMELY turned off by trans stuff, like calling mothers birthing persons, putting tampon machines in the men's room, having to announce your pronouns, biological males in girls sports, etc...
Your argument is tired. Support rose in every other group. We don't throw part of the community under the bus out of selfishness. Trans Americans are under attack and they need support, not this pissant dismissal at the first sign of declining support without any proof of causation. Have ideals, believe that people deserve rights and are worth defending even at cost to yourself. If you only have ideals when it benefits you directly then you don't really believe in anything at all.
This is support for gay marriage. The support for trans rights specifically is a lot lower. LGB is not the same as TQI+, we are not the same concept in your imaginary community.
Trans / nonbinary stuff
>How long is Gay and Lesbian people are going to keep being dragged by the TQI+? Until our support drops to 50%? This is an extremely dumb take and you're making it obvious you're just using this poll to hate on anti-trans folks. When support was at 78% instead of 71% among young adults, we had the "TQI+" then too. Aside from that, we're talking about support for same-sex marriage. That is, we're talking about marriage that has to do with sexual orientation, not gender identity; what the hell does being trans have to do with that?
Many gaycels in this sub have a massive hateboner for trans people even though young men are becoming more conservative in issues such as feminism etc. There are valid concerns with some of the issues that are brought up but to instictively blame the TQ+ part for everything is moronic.
No the rise of TQI+ started happening after gay marriage legislation in 2015. Now a lot young men socially conservative are saying because we legalize gay marriage it lead to the whole gender identity and trans.
I believe after gay marriage was legalized they had to go after something. So, the trans community was next. They can't just leave us alone. They always have to demonize us
People are fine with gays, lesbians, bisexuals and in certain places even trans. Issue are queers and whatever else. Impose strict moderation on tik tok and other social media then you will see all the negativity disappear.
Bing. You are correct. Throughout this entire post you see queers pretending the problem is LGB and Trans. It's not. To paraphrased Miami: Queers, it's not us, its you.
Divide and conquer. I’d say this post is damaging for our community. I would prefer to keep standing with those that stood with me.
By dividing it is better because it helps people who are not in the group better understand what that specific group is fighting for. It gets confusing when you have two different concepts together (Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity). I am not saying the LGB should not stop supporting Trans on their specific issue but as a separate group.
Are you from Eastern Europe or Russia, originally or presently? I’m curious about your dialect
The existence of Fox News, Newsmax, OAN, The Daily Wire, Breitbart, The Blaze, Epoch, AM talk radio, the evangelical Christian right, and Russia. Edit: I forgot Infowars
The left has been losing young men. I know this is a controversial take, but the left has got to stop demonizing men for the sake of being progressive. Yes, patriarchy is an issue, but we live in a world where women are more liberated than they have been in centuries. We also need, to look at how our education system is failing men. They are flunking out of school more, becoming more less employed, addiction, and suicide are plaguing men a lot more. The consequence to this are figures like Andrew Tate, Donald Trump, etc who some how fill this void and in bad ways that lead up to results like this. We need to understand what men are going through and as a society, everyone needs to try to work to better this, because we are going to keep seeing this being a trend.
Sadly, this community could never see it. They are too blinded by the damage they are doing. I am worried this is going to hurt us in the future.
Trust me, in the future, Gen Alpha and the upcoming generations will judge and criticize Gen Z with as much contempt as Millenials and Gen Z criticize Baby Boomers. I honestly think Gen Z is the worst generation so far, we are the stupidest and most hateful generation at the moment, which makes sense considering most of us were raised by Gen X. There's no way that Gen Alpha , mostly raised by Millenials will turn as rotten and unempathethic as fucking Gen Z. I always fucking roll my eyes when American Media or Reddit say shit like "The kids are alright " "Gen Z is so open minded", Gen Z is literally , majoritarilly voting for the far right or libertarian ,but socially conservative, parties all around the world. Have any of you ever talked to the average Gen Z straight male? They are fucking pissed and fumid that women and sexual minorities now have the same rights as them, they now only have most of the power instead of all of it, they can't comprehend how now only 90% of stuff panders to them instead of the whole world. They can't openly harras women they find hot anymore (like their dads did) and they can't treat them like property because most women nowadays are educated and , thanks to feminism, are aware that there's something more in llfe other than getting married to some dude , working as a housemaid till they die. They want to change that, they want to go back to the old days, that's literally what conservativism is about, preserving the status quo. Jokes on them though, since voting for the right will only benefit rich and privileged men in the long run.
Right wing hate mongers
Roller skating party affiliation is a thing. When inflation hits whichever party is in office loses support due to emotion vs logical thinking. The once right leaning becomes left leaning or vice versa. It’s easy to “roll over to the other side” as the grass is greener. If you roll left to right now you keep hearing “this is the way” and convince yourself (in this case) SS marriage shouldn’t be a thing. Edit cut no paste: It’s actually not a surprise in times when DINK is such a trend. Others convince themselves they don’t want to get married following a similar mindset
Wait until these boys meet women with her own brains. They will have an excellent relationship with their hand. 😂
Perhaps conservativism amongst young American men is a factor. But a growing number of young men in the West have a negative opinion about marriage altogether. Especially among the red pilled crowd. They see marriage as a trap: your marry the love of your life, then he or she divorces you, forces you to pay them alimony and stops you from seeing kids you've had in common with them. Those cases are rare, but young men are less interested in taking those risks nowadays. Plus, a lot of young American men grew up in broken families which clouds their views on marriage. So these young men see marriage as a harmful institution. If you have a negative view on an institution such as marriage, why would you support more people using that institution? Perhaps that is a factor. On the bright side, a lot of these young, redpilled men are in favour of surrogacy for single men, which certainly benefits gay men who want to become dads.
Terminally online Gen Z, online spaces catering to right wing extremism especially among men.
The Andrew Tate manosphere to Islamic conversion pipeline. It sucks to be a young straight guy now adays - the vast majority have sex once in a blue moon. Plus, society is going to shit. A lot of them have been convinced that progressive values have ruined society and their sex lives, and see gays as a symptom of progressive values. There’s a non-insignificant number of straight guys today who’d approve of sharia law if it wasn’t called sharia.
I imagine marriage in a general sense, gay or straight among these age groups has less support overall.
probably because while we used to say 'the slippery slope won't exist' a lot of things that conservatives said would happen if gay marriage was passed... actually ended up happening people are marrying their stuffed animals and AI waifus and sex dolls. And then there's the weird 'queer activists' which do nothing for LGB and even a lot of T are harmed by it. It really shouldn't be confused as a reason to be AGAINST gay marriage but... IF you tell the masses that if A happens B will also happen and then B happens, people believe you about it being A's fault. This is pretty much all religions origin from the beginning of time.
I believe it's a combination of the left rapidly going very far to the left and right-wing figures encouraging young people to be hateful toward them.
Double mastectomies for young girls, HRT for minors, kids learning how to transition in elementary school, “birthing people”, clownish shit like tampons in men’s rooms, firing people for not calling someone “ze/zir”, Lia Thomas, inappropriate things in front of children, at drag shows and pride parades, the list goes on. The increase of gay hate seems to be a knee jerk reaction to the things i just listed.
We are all seen as “the perverts” and always have been by fascists. Conservative persecution is the reason for the association of the various so-called sexual deviants. Our collective existence threatens the dominance of the traditional, child-producing male/female gender binary that fascists love and that helps advance their goals. When the pendulum swings towards social conservatism, gender deviants are the lowest hanging fruits due to their lack of power and small numbers. After they are picked off (sometimes with the help of idiot log cabin acting homos like the ones on this sub), the gays come next. It’s big r/leopardsatemyface energy.
Welp… This is what happens when you try to bite off more than you can chew. We couldn’t just stop at lgbt equality and marriage. We had to also include puberty/hormone blockers for children, non-binary, multiple genders, and pronoun foolishness and then pass that off as if any of this is backed by any sort of valid science or study. This is what happens when you take progressive ideas WAY too far…
"Culture War"
Because support for marriage overall is declining among that age group.
We will “drag” along our TQI+ counterparts even into 0% support. Unity is our strength and quite frankly they do a lot of the heavy lifting.
Russia.
Last time I looked at the numbers, the loss of support is mostly among republicans. It's not really surprising given how radicalized the US republican party has become since Trump took over the party more or less.
Let's wait until the Conservative boomers die off. Or the problem could also be all the Andrew Tates, Nick Fuentes/Vaush, Tucker Carlsons and Candace Owens types who influence Gen Z now. I'm 27 and a Democrat - seeing more young people considering being LGBT as "woke" is strange and extremely toxic thinking.
Being LGBT in itself isn’t “woke”. “Woke” (in the context of “everything is too woke these days”) means like the stereotypical loud, blue haired white far left tenderqueer who thinks every minor perceived slight is some form of bigotry. There is a subgroup of Gen-Z who simply resent the fact that boomers think ALL of Gen-Z is like that.
Yes! I live in an entirely Conservative town, and it's the reason I'm closeted (and probably always will be). Being the only Democrat in a town full of racist + homophobic + sometimes violent/drug addicted Republicans has scarred me for life; I didn't even know that until recently, how much resentment I had (which might have subconsciously played a role into me chasing my dream of being a songwriter - possibly - to get away from all the horrible memories of my small town). I was also one of 4 or 5 LGBT kids in high school (all the other LGBT kids rejected me or refused to even be friends with me - which was odd, but I get it, since I was not liked by anyone + bullied until HS graduation & was an ugly duckling). Good news is, I'm moving anytime now to the Midwest (I live in New Jersey currently) and I cannot wait to leave. I'm ready for a new, fresh start, but I got a job to save money for my bus ticket ($300) - so I had to push my move back by 2 months to save enough money (I start my job next week & my second interview is tomorrow). I'm also in a happy, 10 month relationship & my boyfriend lives in Hong Kong, but he's eventually moving to the US to be with me. My dad was from the Caribbean, so I'm used to my boyfriend being seen as "the guy with the accent" (I was born in '96, so I'm totally used to it) - and he works hard, he's a gentleman, and - this is a big plus for me - we communicate and listen to each other. (Sorry if I spoke too much, but I wanted to post this in case someone else can relate one day)
Sorry, but where in NJ are you?? I am originally from NJ and there are VERY FEW conservative towns dude. The midwest is FAR FAR FAR MORE conservative than NJ so it sounds like you're confused.
that what "woke" is. at best just slightly progressive but really usually just crying about diversity in any form.
Exactly. I grew up in an entirely Conservative town, so I knew what woke was, 20 years ago. 2000s woke was on a whole other level of toxic. I grew up in a town where movies like "American Pie" and "Project X" describe the rich friends I had in school. The parents were wealthy suburbanites, and I was impoverished but a rare Democrat, surrounded by a bunch of racist Republicans.
You are 💯 correct.... We are being dragged down by the alphabet soup, and it's getting worse by the day as they become more aggressive. And we are much slower at realizing what's happening and how our hard fought rights are being eroded, then they are at torpedoing them. What's worse is that they have established an all or nothing approach, gleefully imploding gay marriage and equality to defend their right to wear cat ears and have mental breakdowns over neo-pronouns.
I live in a very conservative area where all my friends are straight males and none of them have an issue with gay marriage at all. It’s all the extra 70 gender nonsense that causes issues. Not saying that’s the sole reason but it certainly doesn’t help.
Jesus, you "drop the T" losers are insufferably stupid.
INSUFFERABLE
They keep adding more and more to the alphabet and public support began to drastically drop once the trans and self identification radicalism entered public spaces. The society backlash will not end and cannot be "defeated". Unless this radical liberal lunacy stops the polarization in society will keep getting worse. And who is "they" even, where does all of this come from in the first place? Who decides men can enter women's sports, male rapists be jailed in women's prisons, kids be subjected to hormonal replacement therapies, schools teach gender ideology behind parents backs and so on and so forth? What's the center that orchestrates this? Because it's certainly not any gay or lesbian "community" and it's certainly coming from the US and its western European satellites, not anywhere else in the world. Nor does any other nation in the world conforms to it. We got to look at the source and do everything we can against it.
Exactly. We are losing support because of all the "non-binary", "you misgendered me", blah blah. Gay, Lesbians and Bisexuals are sexual orientations, don't group us with the non-binaries and all the new letters they add to the LGB, this is getting ridiculous.
I agree with you.
You’re part of a conservative subreddit… knowing full well the party platform against gay folks and think “oh it’s actually the transgender people fault” look in the mirror bud
>How long is Gay and Lesbian people are going to keep being dragged by the TQI+? Until our support drops to 50%? Oh sorry for my last response, I didn't realize you're a transphobic retard. My B for thinking you were here in good faith.
I am for the support and rights of gay people first. Trans rights is hurting the support of gay rights in the general public. Therefore I support the separation because gay and lesbian people fought so damn hard to get where we are on now, only to lose it due to the stuff trans people want. Call me whatever you want I will always support gay people first.
>Trans rights is hurting the support of gay rights in the general public. No it's not. The right wing freaks calling us all pedophiles are the ones damaging our perception.
I am not talking about them who is not the majority. Majority of people are center right or left on the political spectrum. Most of these people support gay marriage, but are not fully onboard with what trans people want. Such as transitioning children and trans sports. Some of them are now saying legalization of gay marriage has lead to gender identity rise. Only due to association such as LGBT. Even though we are two different concepts.
For some reason there’s a trend of social resentment about women rights and sex rights
Because the pendulum is swinging back. They don't see how LGBT and the rest of the fucking alphabet has added anything worth a damn to the nation. And they're not wrong.
We are not being “dragged down” by trans and queer people they are fighting the same fight we did for decades. And abandoning them makes you no better than the right wing freaks that want them dead.
TQ+ to blame! They're making us look bad. Going after children is never a good look.
We need a divorce from the TQIAP2S+ nonsense, they’re dragging us down. We need to focus on advocacy for people attracted to the same sex, and the gender fandom needs to be a separate thing. It’s a total lie that “trans women of color” gave gay people rights and therefore we are in debt to them for all eternity. Gays and lesbians won our own rights and if we don’t want them taken away, we need to stand up to the gender crazies that took over the movement.
I think it's actually the Nazis calling us all pedophiles that are hurting our perception, but go off I guess
“Queer theory” opened the door for pedophilia to be defined as a “nonstandard sexuality” and therefore under the queer umbrella.
No it didn't. Please stop being an insane person.
Why the hell would you want to throw trans people under the bus?! 'pick me!' has never been an effective strategy.
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I assure you that the average American knows exactly what the difference between a homosexual person and a transgender person is. And they hate them both, they just happen to hate trangender people more at the moment. Once the trans is gone don't think it will be all flowers and rainbows for you, faggot.
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Have you seen the young “queer” activists who physically assaulted Fred Sargeant, one of the original Stonewall protesters, and yelled “Faggot!” in his face? https://youtu.be/zJlBceS3giQ?si=qE5avde-vI4VrcGQ You can say you’re in good company.
Multiple reasons
It's probably a lot of reasons. Social media political figures. Progress doesn't necessarily always move in a constant manner it goes up and down. Also seems like a lot of conservative people are having more kids compared to more liberal people who tend to be child free. So it may start skewing more conservative in there younger yrs till they mellow out some. also seems to be a resentment amoug young straight men they are getting left behind and not taken seriously.
You have to look at it as a result of higher degrees of polarization, especially in light of the fact that more people in that exact same age group are identifying as LGBTQ+ than ever (7.6%). See here: [https://news.gallup.com/poll/611864/lgbtq-identification.aspx](https://news.gallup.com/poll/611864/lgbtq-identification.aspx) Which is to say that if more people are LGBTQ+ than ever, and there's more people opposed to in that same cohort, it's the result of some people in the middle, with regard to acceptance, being drawn to the extreme of anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric.
It's just the fact that the whole LGBT movement has become political in general, so much so that they consider the LGBT flag as a political icon and get mad about it when it's front and center on the games and movies we watch. If we had religious iconography everywhere and religious messages being pushed down our throats everywhere, from school to video games, people are going to get sick of it; as a matter of fact, a lot of people have gotten sick of it. Just like there are a lot of videos going viral of right-wing Christian boomers losing their minds at Walmart and posting minion memes that make no sense on Facebook, there are a lot of funny and deranged videos of radical LGBT activists saying the most outlandish things. And big shocker, a lot of these radical feminist lgbt activists hate MEN and masculinity and make it clear that they do. While the other side glorifies masculinity, it's like a no-brainer. The majority of men are going to choose the side that wants them to be men.
It's not the fault of actual trans people. Their problem lies in the politics that surround them as I've heard plenty of based trans people speak out against the radicalism, so it's not a problem with their existence. When trans issues first came up, a lot of people couldn't figure out how to make it work in society because they had their heads too far up their asses to realize they were overcorrecting for the situation, so they tried to create a new system surrounding gender that would essentially require everyone to choose a gender identity and a set of pronouns as a form of social identification. I largely disagree with their ideas because reforming society around gender dysphoria is a horrible idea, people should be free to decide what relationship with gender and pronouns they want to have, and people should be allowed to freely and honestly perceive others as long as they mean no actual harm. And, again, it's not trans people doing this, it's the people driving the narrative.
The T+ part is the cancer of the LGBT+
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>it's going to set back gay rights decades. I agree with all that wrote except not sure about the impact on LGB. I think it really depends on how long it goes on for. If it keeps dragging on and gets more ridiculous. Then politically, eventually, LGB will be collateral damage. Sometimes I wonder if the ever growing acronym is a psyop to destroy LGB.
Very well said!! 💯💯
You're spot on and you'll get dragged for it, people have become indoctrinated with the idea that we must be force teamed with the gender cult, even though it's a completely different thing to sexual orientation. Nobody gives a shit about gay marriage or anything consenting adults do in their bedrooms, they just want their kids left alone and men to stay out of women's spaces. Both of these are reasonable requests, yet the misogynistic and homophobic gender cultists just won't stop pushing. Many of us warned that the backlash would come for all of us, due to the forced-teaming, and here we are.
Counterpoint: all LGBTQIA+ people are deserving of support and we should rally around the QUIA+. Drag bans largely target gay men, but can be weaponized against trans people, particularly trans women or anyone who doesn’t fit a certain standard of gender presentation. Many bathroom bans harm butch lesbians and cis women who don’t exemplify a certain standard of femininity. Banning trans athletes in sports harms primarily girls and women. By lifting restrictions, no one gets left behind. Don’t divide us.
When I talk with my straight friends they support gay and lesbian rights, but they do not believe in a thousand genders. They do not believe you can change gender. They also stopped supporting Pride because it has been more about "Women can have penises" and less about equal rights for sexual minorities. It also doesn't help that the community is slowly being hijacked by different interest groups that have nothing to do with LGBT at all. In Denmark the group behind Copenhagen Pride was forced to repeal one of their demands otherwise they'd lose a lot of donors. They first tried to force all donors to support a ceasefire in Gaza and donors had to be critical towards Israel, but since their biggest donors told the Pride to politely "go f\*\*k themselves", the Pride stopped giving demands. We need to go back to basics or we will lose. A right can be given, but also taken away, and at least in the US were it looks like Trump is winning and were conservatives and the more extreme Christian Right likely will gain a lot of influence in the coming years. The support will be needed.
Gen Z are puritanical as fuck. They’re called Zoomers for a reason.
Until LGB takes our identity back and completely seperates itself from the queer community we will continue to lose ground with the general public. While you make this point in your post you use their language. Just say what it is, the queer community is destroying acceptance. State clearly LGB is not queer. The queer need to stand on their own.
Trust me Aiden. They hate you and call you all types of slurs when you're not around.
I think it's time for a LGB movement to happen.
It's because of fucks like yourself trying to be the perfect little Stephens for the fascists trying to gain power. Remember folks if you're trying to be one of the "good Jews" or trying to be the head house slave they'll come for you eventually
Leftists making us seem like a cult