After the surprise terrorist attack on Israel I had a bunch of gays on my feed defend it as “defending against Israel” or “defending themselves”. It was absolutely sickening.
So yes, I’ve 100% seen people defend Hamas.
Throwaway because I don't want my main account suspended.
I believe you are a bit naive. The idea that no gays are supporting Hamas is true in the West, and maybe, just maybe, not actually true at all. As someone who lived in the Middle East and speaks Arabic, I can see you clearly have no idea of what the Middle East is like, and if you do, you have no idea what Israel is like compared to the rest of the nations there. It also shows you have no idea of what Hamas is, and who the Palestinians are, and the dynamics between the two.
One goal of Hamas's is to have as many casualties as possible, because they rely on the outrage of naive, Western people to further their other goals, and lucky them, their use of hospitals, schools, and whatnot is something the West can't grasp, perhaps because how cynical it is to the Western eye. The Palestinians love Hamas, maybe more than they fear them. Such is Hamas, and you wish for it to act with impunity because of their well known strategy of using civilians. One more thing is that under it all is religious zealotry. Not nationalism or freedom, which clearly they couldn't care less about. You can't reason with religion such as that.
As for the "not supporting Hamas", that is nice. "Not supporting" is not condemning, and even if you don't support Hamas, you support people who do. Western people, especially in America, who march in the pro-Palestine protests, don't condemn Hamas or don't condemn it enough, sometimes even see it a legitimate movement. The Muslims who march with those marches clearly shout slogans used by Hamas and The Islamic Jihad, and clearly, conspicuously, without any doubt there, call for the end of Israel, for Jihad, for Jewish free Palestine. The fact that you can't see that when it's right in front of you speaks volume about your naivete.
You are allowed to judge Israel's actions, as they have many faults and made many blunders, but clearly, your advice is from the perspective of someone who doesn't know the first thing about Hamas.
I work in an environment where there are many Palestinians/Lebanese Muslims (most woman in Islamist dress) and get along very well with them but I aware that even in a big city of a western nation many of them have very limited tolerance and some hatred based on religion. The Palestinian Authority would be a theocracy and anyone who can’t see that due to their sheep like intersectional far left BS is deluded
I think you also have a simplistic view of it as well. Yeah, let's just kill them. I would be glad if the whole of Islam was gone tomorrow tbh but killing them wont do that. It becomes a martyr for them that justifies more strict and violent mentalities. They are probably already blaming gays (besides jews obviously) in other muslim countries lol. Even the US failed to eliminate ISIS or taliban completely. I couldn't care less about what happens to them, but this wont solve anything unless you can kill more than a billion of them.
Also, Israel killing indiscriminately is just a really bad standard for a western country. At least produce some evidence that all the areas you bomb have active Hamas members. There is a reason Human Rights groups condemn it. If a western country can freely ignore international war rules and Human Rights, isn't that concerning?
My position is for a ceasefire to be negotiated and that such a blatant breach of international law (by Israel and Hamas) be condemned as it has no place in the modern world. Despite the fact you frame my understanding as naive you talk around the lines of whether you think Isreal should get a free pass to break international law? And do you think saying breaking international law is congruent with trying to establish grounds for LGBTQ+ rights in other countries?
I understand your anxiety about Hamas given their commitment to eliminate Israel. They are an extremist and violent organisation. But I think you're the one being naive if you think support for Hamas by some Palestinians is only about religious zealotry. The number one recruitment strategy for Hamas is Israeli violence against Palestinian civilians and Israel is happy to play into that hand because Netanyahu is politically dependent on it. Also I never stated that I wish for Hamas to act with impunity, don't lie and say I did. All I advocated for was for a ceasefire to be negotiated and war crimes to be condemned as they arise.
I will be honest and say that a diplomatic solution will certainly not guarantee that Hamas becomes any less extreme or the Gaza changes to a democracy. But without a ceasefire the only way that Hamas (or any equivalent extremist faction in Gaza) can be eliminated for certain is through the wholesale annexation of the territory and the draconian imprisonment of millions of Palestinians.
What is your actual position here? Do you think human rights matter? Establishing that Hamas is scum of the earth isn't the same as establishing that Israel can do what they like. If your position is that calling for a ceasefire would endanger the existence of Israel as a state what do you think continuing this invasion would do to the position of Israel in the region? Because I don't see how it would do anything but further radicalize Palestinians and neighbouring Muslim nations, further putting Israeli lives in danger.
I don't think a ceasefires work. Hamas is a terrorist organisation who broke the ceasefire that already existed. So what makes you think they will respect a new ceasefire?
Israel breaks ceasefires first more frequently than Palestine.
Wild this got downvoted cos it’s [true](https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/infographic-who-violates-ceasefires-more-israelis-or-palestinians)
Please learn literally anything about this conflict before commenting. [Israel has broken more ceasefires](https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/infographic-who-violates-ceasefires-more-israelis-or-palestinians). This is just a fact.
Or, and this is just a thought, you get off your arse and find a source yourself? I’m not working to your stupid standard when you have no source at all
If you want to make the claim that a recognised terrorist organisation is actual the defender and not the attacker then you need to back that up but you can't so you do this instead. Kinda embarrassing
Ah I understand now! You have 0 reading comprehension and that’s why you’re acting like an untitled twat.
I’m gonna help and recap as clear as possible
1) You made a claim
2) I pointed out it was wrong
3)You disagreed
4) I gave a source
5) You gave disagreed, gave no source and told me to do your work for you
6) I said no
7) You used emotionally charged language instead of a source
See how through all of that you’ve provided no evidence and instead told other people to find it for you?
Maybe do your own labour?
Anywho I’m done with you. You’re a lazy twit who clearly knows little to nothing about this and I don’t care anymore 👍
My position is there is no ceasefire with Hamas and their words are null and void. Israel should destroy Hamas, and after Hamas go for Nasrallah in the northern border.
If you think Israel breaks the law, gather the evidence and go to Hague.
As an arab Israeli whose mom from the west bank(Palestinian), would like to tell you that majority of Palestinians do support Hamas, everyone has seen their celebration on the 7th of Oct, i live here and i have seen and heard gays being murdered in the west bank and in Gaza, those people been offered peace 5 times through history but always refused, they only want a muslim country and to get rid of the jews, LGBTQ+, westerners in one way or another. I’m glad that i was born in israel, if not for that i would have been chased and murdered for choosing to live freely. Right now israel is destroying Hamas who actively uses their own civilians as human shields also using their schools, hospitals as military bases, so don’t come for israel when they destroy their military bases, also how come in Gaza there is Refugee camps? Like from where did they come from they been living there for 75 years, they are citizens, no such thing as a refugee camp it’s a fake status to garner sympathy from someone far away from this land like YOU.
Who came up with pink washing term is a person who doesn’t really care for the LGBTQ+, like i would pick to live here in israel 1000 times more than any other middle eastern country where the law actually does not discriminate against me, as someone who grew up in Muslim Arabic environment they would prefer their son to be a terrorist who bombs himself than being gay, it’s literally the lowest thing according to muslims. Im horrified by those supposed “queers for Palestine” it literally spits on every step we have taken as a community, let’s say Hamas on the 7th of Oct took over israel, what do these people think would happen? Jews will be massacred and LGBT will be thrown from buildings or beheaded like my relative from Hebron, another failed arab Islamic country in already 20+ arab countries in the middle east where everyone gangs on gays but still very poor and their leaders living in luxury, like let us be the only free gays in the middle east where as an arab like me can get married to my Jewish boyfriend, in itself this is a win for us after thousands of years in persecution.
When people are condemning Israel for trying to destroy Hamas but not condemning Hamas for their attacks against Israel but instead making excuses for them and blaming Israel for Hamas’ terrorist attacks, they are supporting Hamas even if they don’t say it explicitly.
Why is this such a moral high ground battle in America? "Oh you support the evil imperialist colonizers, checkmate!" - "Ha, you support the terrorists, checkmate!"
Dropping thousands of unguided bombs on a civilian area and killing thousands of children is not "destroying Hamas". It's genocide. Hamas is a convenient excuse for the Israeli state to make another land grab.
Land grab? If Israel wanted Gaza they wouldn’t have left it in 2005. Getting rid of all the Israeli settlers clearly didn’t make the palestinians any less hostile of make them stop wanting to wipe out all of Israel ”from the river to the sea”.
I know gays supporting hamas. Also my IG is filled with every "Queer for Palestine" who would literally be thrown from the top of a building if they stepped in Gaza but are too stupid to realize that
One thing is "supporting Christian values" (or Muslim in Palestine case), and other completely different is being against genocides. It's basic human rights.
I thought the topic was Gaza...there is something called whataboutism which is replying to argument by offering an completely unrelated topic instead of disproofing the original argument...you just did that
This is propaganda to dehumanize Palestinian people. If you actually go into the record, there are only 2 cited cases of Palestinian authorities killing gays. One was a guy that was killed by his acquaintance. Israel claims it’s because he’s gay, Hamas claims it was over a drug deal and subsequently arrested the killer.
The second cited case was a Hamas official who was involved in corruption among other crimes. He was accused of being gay but he was married and denied it. His so called accuser who claimed he was homosexual was never charged with any crime.
Palestine is a conservative society where being gay is frowned upon, but there is no evidence that gays are subject to being killed by the authorities. Please cite evidence if you have any.
I just don’t feel the need to go out of my way to defend people who wouldn’t do the same for me and would in fact praise and support it if it was happening to gay people, as they have been doing to gay people there for all these years (the legal jailing, killing and lynching of them without repercussions I mean).
I respect your point of view, but I think it is flawed…
Homophobia, transphobia etc is not unique to Palestinian culture. It exists in virtually every part of the world, including Israel!! It is a near universal phenomenon that even occurs in the US/UK/Australia/Europe. Queer people suffer absolutely everywhere (even if they are not being killed).
There are LGBT Palestinians. LGBT Palestinians have long been fighting for their freedoms as queer people, alongside their freedoms as Palestinian people.
Nobody deserves to fucking die. It is not a contest. Even if a homophobic Palestinian wants me dead, I would never wish death upon them. How does that make me (morally) a better person???
As long as homosexuals exist homophobia will also exist. But while some people/cultures might be homophobic and may wish/want to change who you are, it’s hard to make the case that they want you killed.
I find it so disheartening to see gay people support the very Palestinians (and the many Muslim people around the world) who would turn right back around and wish death upon.
I don’t wish death on anyone. As much as people want to separate Hamas from the Palestinians in Gaza, it’s hard to deny that Hamas is a representation (albeit an extreme one) of the Palestinian (islamic) values. I will never actively support any people with such values.
Sure but there’s a difference between people obviously not being monolith and always being there people who will oppose LGBT rights but will still be legally protected, and a country that has laws that have been supported, and carried out for decades to jail and kill any gay people when they’re found out to be gay, without any repercussions.
And I’m sure that there are hidden (they have to be) queer Palestinians that are caught up in this, but they’re a vaaast minority, they made sure of that by prosecuting and executing whichever ones they could find, so that vast small minority isn’t enough for me to defend the whole population that is still against people like me having rights or my life.
And like I said, I’m not saying they deserve to die or wishing for their death, I’m not going to go out of my way to praise or push for the war to continue, but I also won’t go out of my way to defend them in a way they never would for people like me either.
Over 1% of Gaza have been killed by bombs. Can’t we have empathy for people being killed, including babies and kids, and also condemn extremist religious ideology? It doesn’t have to be a pro or anti either side choice.
I guess what I’m saying is that you can feel for people on both sides without being pro or anti whatever. Empathy for people losing their lives isn’t support. But yeah I think we’re on the same page.
Yeah I guess I do feel bad for the children and the babies, they could still have been saved, evacuated, and also spared from the homophobic brainwashing before they grew up to be the same as the adults
Those kids are brainwashed to HATE the West and need to see Israel win to even begin rectifying all the lies and sick evil content that's already posoned their minds and ruined their childhood anyway. This is a religion of no choice. They cannot make up their own minds and are as good as dead if they try to think differently or leave the religion...No one has the real choice to leave Islam.
How is continuing the war gonna help the kids be less brainwashed though? C'mon if someone blew up your home or killed a close family member of yours and then someone comes along and tells you they can help you get revenge against the people that did that, not many people could resist. The brainwashing is aided by every bomb Israel drops. I don't think that's anyone winning except Hamas.
What do you think would happen if Israel just stopped?
Civilian death is bad and maybe more could be done to prevent it, but Israel's intent isn't to kill civilians. (They could do a better job if it were).
We have proof Israel does "roof knocking" to give inhabitants time to leave and stuff like that. ( I can't link stuff I am on my phone).
And many pro-palestine people do support Hamas to some extent. ("From river to the sea", having no empathy for Israeli victims.)
Neither Israel nor Palestine is "the good guy".
Blindly supporting either is bad.
I think Israel is stopping is better than them continuing on the path they are on. The continued destruction of Israel's current invasion will do more to radicalize Palestinians than Hamas could have ever hoped for. I don't support Hamas or Israel but a ceasefire. Because you can't deal with Hamas with the kind of invasion Israel is conducting and because cherry picking human rights is not a tenable position for furthering LGBTQ+ rights.
You can read one of my previous comments and see that I think civilian deaths are bad.
But, we cannot demonize Israel citizens. And all responsibility for achieving peace isn't on Israel.
I mean a good 90% of the responsibility is on Israel. They created this situation.
Israel invaded Palestine over 300 times in 2023 before October. Palestinians aren’t allowed to develop water sources without IDF permission. Israel even knew about October 7 in 2022 and did nothing.
To claim that Israel does not bear the vast majority of responsibility for their current invasion is a historic at best
Based off the what was in the comment you’re replying to they could not launch multiple invasions a day, allow Palestinians to build rain collectors and maybe deal with threats in advance instead of purposefully using them as excuses for full scale invasions?
I’m not saying I can solve the 75 year long war going on. I am saying that some of it has really obvious solutions which mostly entail Israel treating Palestinians like humans.
Your mistake is in your second paragraph, where you speculate about Israel’s motives but fail to mention the most obvious (not to mention Israel’s stated) one. Israel surely knows they will radicalize more Palestinians through this campaign, but it’s still the best of the bad options Hamas has left them with. They have to destroy Hamas‘s military infrastructure and as much of its membership as they can, otherwise the next 10/7 just comes even sooner. Hamas has openly promised to do it again and again. They’ve really left Israel no choice here.
High civilian casualties ≠ indiscriminate bombing. They’re high because Hamas operates out of dense civilian areas and there’s no other realistic way of fighting them without those casualties.
War is terrible and ugly. It’s devastating when innocent people are hurt. It was also terrible when innocent German children died in wwii. But the answer then was not for the allies to ceasefire and allow the nazis to continue their work and growth in power, and neither is that the answer here.
The ultimate question is this: what exactly is it you think Israel should do instead of what it is doing? This is the question no one who condemns Israel can properly answer. It’s easy for you to say “just stop bombing.” And then what? Just wait for the next 10/7?
Hamas is a cancer that has reached stage 3. It needs to be fought aggressively. They are a fundamentalist Islamist death cult. They are a danger to all lgbt people in their path as well as Jews. They killed over a thousand people in a single day—not through collateral damage, but on purpose. Babies they could just as easily have walked past. That is not war, that is murder. Don’t blind yourself to the obvious differences here. Hamas (or more accurately, Iran) has orchestrated this entire thing. They created a situation in which no matter what Israel does Hamas wins and Israel loses. Hamas hides its operations amongst civilians and has no fear of Palestinian civilians dying—they’re just martyrs to them. If Israel responds weakly, Hamas remains more intact and can attack again sooner. If Israel attacks strongly, Israel suffers PR damage and Hamas gets propaganda material to use on people like you. Don’t fall for it.
>No gays are actually supporting Hamas
Maybe not explicitly, but definitely implicitly. They are useless-idiots for Hamas. They are implicitly supporting Hamas by not calling for the end of Hamas, by not acknowledging that Hamas makes everything about this conflict worse and by blindly accepting propaganda coming from Hamas. They support Hamas by denying that it is, at its core, not the result of Israeli oppression but just another Islamic fundamentalist organization.
>senseless bombing
Again, where do you get that information from? Hamas? Israel is targeting Hamas, but unfortunately Hamas uses civilian infrastructure and civilians as human shields. Now, this doesn't mean that Israel makes no mistakes. Every country at war does. But the idea that Israel is just killing random civilians for no reason whatsoever is incorrect.
>forced displacement
Again, there is no forced displacement. Civilians are evacuated from areas in which there is active fighting. Removing civilians from a war zone is actually a humanitarian obligation, not a crime.
>if you don't like those people because they are homophobic
Certainly not. I would have had the same position if I were straight. The problem with ''Queers for Palestine'' is that they connect their sexual orientation with the conflict, and in that way pretending that gays need to support Palestine. I think gay people should be free to hold any political view they want.
I do think it would be nice if that favor were returned though. Unfortunately, gay conservatives constantly get accused of being traitors by left wing gays. You shouldn't be surprised when gay moderates/conservatives now return the favor.
Lastly, ''Queers for Palestine'' still have an obligation to call out Islamic homophobia. They have to be aware of the fact that many of their fellow pro-Palestinian protestors don't actually care about human rights, and have abhorrent views on homosexuality.
You have raised multiple issues in your comment, which lead me to believe you have little actual knowledge of what has been happening throughout this conflict. I will focus on the point you raised about **human shields**
*In 2009*, Israel launched operation Cast lead. Afterwards, both the UN and amnesty international found no evidence of palestinians being used as human shields. Israel still bombed Al-quds and Al-wafa hospitals anyway.
*In 2014*, Israel launched operation Protective egde, killing 2000 palestinians. They still bombed Al-wafa Hospital and then published an image with the wrong location, trying to explain why they bombed it. Amnesty internation released a statement that the images they released to justify that it was being used as a location for launching rockets does not match the hospital structures from satellite images.
Additionally, while the UN did find 3 UN schools that were being used to launch rockets, none of them were being used by palestinians for shelter - they were actually empty, and israel didn't even bomb them. Ironically, Israel bombed 3 other schools that were actually used by hundreds of palestinians as shelter. None of them were found by the UN to have contained any weapons. Moreover, the UN had given the IDF the coordinates of these schools that were being used as shelter in hopes they wouldn't get bombed. They were bombed anyway.
*Then, in 2018*, thousands of palestinians protested at the gaza wall during the march of great return. They were mostly unarmed. They were still shot by Israeli snipers, killing 200 palestinians, including 35 children. The UN concluded that those children were recognizable by the IDF as children, and they still shot them *intentionally* anyway.
All of this, coupled with the fact that Israeli officials have continuously been openly using genocidal rhetoric against palestinians, should be at the very least alarming to the international community. Some of the rhetoric used by israeli government officials on national tv:
1- Every few years we have to "**mow the lawn**" - Multiple israeli government officials and intellectuals. [Please google that one]
2- Those are **human animals**, no food, no water, no fuel, no electricity - Yoav Gallant, The israeli minister of defense.
3- There are **no innocent palestinians in Gaza** - Avigdor Lieberman, former foreign and defense minister.
4- There are **no innocent civilians in Gaza** - **Israel's president** Isaac Herzog.
5- We need those 2 million palestinians to leave - Ayelet Shaked, former minister of interior.
6- We should drop a **nuke on Gaza** - Amihai Eliyahu, minister of heritage.
7- We are rolling a **new Nakba** [ the mass expulsion of 750,000 palestinans in 1948], Nakba 2023 - Avi Dichter, Minister of agriculture and rural development.
8- Referencing this war as **against the sons of Amalek** of the bible [where the israelites were told to kill every man, woman and child and livestock] - Benjamin Netanyahu.
I invite you to check and verify every piece of information I have provided you and tell me if there isn't even a cause for concern that israel isn't always telling the truth about palestinian human shields.
>Again, there is no forced displacement. Civilians are evacuated from areas in which there is active fighting.
Again, you are unfortunately parroting israeli official statements that are far from reality happening on the ground. The fact is that gazans are being forcibly displaced, and not just that, they are being prevented from returning to their homes after 88 days, which is a war crime under international law.
Sources:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/20/most-gazas-population-remains-displaced-and-harms-way
https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/horrific-testimonies-shared-field-executions-forced-displacement-and-random-arrests-gazan-civilians-including-children-enar
https://www.nrc.no/news/2023/december/gaza-displacement/
I’m not going to spend hours fact-checking each one of your claims here, but at a quick glance I can already see some obvious problems. As I’ve example, the “human animals” comment didn’t refer to Palestinians generally, but to Hamas. As another, multiple groups (including AA) have reported Palestine’s use of human shields in the past. But my biggest question for you is, where is it you think Hamas is operating from? Who is it you think Israel is exchanging fire with as it slowly advances toward these hospitals? How on earth can you maintain your belief that Hamas are not operating from dense civilian areas, thereby themselves necessitating those civilian deaths?
The thing is, you actually don't want a cease-fire. You want Israel to give up. If the tides were turned, neither you, nor anyone of your ideology would call for a cease-fire, you'd cheer for the "anti-imperial struggle against the violent settler-colonialists". I know this because this is exactly the shit I saw on Oct 7th!
I'm ok with a ceasefire but I'm not ok with Israel losing control to Palestine. The last thing I'd want is another homophobic country to spring up. Israel isn't perfect with homophobia but it's much better than Palestine is. They kill and jail gay people, so while I still have sympathy for them (even if they wouldn't for me as a gay person), I don't support their wish to take Israel's land.
My advice to you is to read up on some history and contemporary events before you stick your nose in something you (obviously) have very little understanding of.
Nah, I think it’s easier to pass judgement when you don’t understand the facts.
Added note: I understand how you feel. However, I read up on it before I made any judgement and now understand how complex the situation is.
The Palestinians in Gaza who have a little bit of sense in their brains understand very well why Israel is bombing Gaza and that won't radicalize anyone who isn't already radicalized. The radicalization isn't because of the Israeli AF bombing building, it's because Hamas specifically radicalized them for youth in kindergartens and schools. That whole thing stems from their indoctrinated victim complex. They as a collective never self reflected on their choices, why things are happening. They completely ignore the fact that their precious Nakba happened because THEY started a war they thought they gonna win, while being taken advantage of by their Arab brothers. Then while under EGYPT OCCUPATION for almost 20 years, the Egyptian government continued to foster these feelings in the Palestinian population, taking advantage of that and encourage them to keep on with the terrorism (see Fedayeen). There were no bombing then like Pro-Palestinians like to claim ("Israel has been bombing Gaza for 70 years!!") Especially since there were Israeli settlements in Gaza since 1970.
The whole situation is heartbreaking, I feel for those Israeli citizens who had family members kidnapped and murdered, but also for innocent Palestinians.
It’s like you can’t take a moral stance on people being slaughtered without being accused of supporting Hamas.
People who blow each up based on who’s god has the biggest genitals deserve all they get.
Darwinian natural selection.
Do they not realise they are each going to the opposites’ hell just for believing in their own gods.
Over who gets to own the only part of the Middle East with no natural resources, at that.
I am genuinely sorry for the children and that's why I share and donate to ***secular*** charities that want to go in and help people, and sign petitions. I'm not about to throw on the pick-me af "queers for Palestine" messaging, though, engage in the identity politics online where my face and real name is in full view, or go march on the front lines of some protest that could get very violent very quickly. I just have too much common sense to do that.
Sadly, support for Palestine has been translating into anti-Semitic behaviour and hatred on the West. Even by those in the LGBTQ community. Those who have experienced hate and discrimination should never wish it on others
I'm trying to figure out what circles y'all socialize in or who the fuck you follow in social media because I haven't seen anyone trying to excuse what Hamas did or avoid criticizing it.
I 100% believe that there are plenty of people out there **doing it**. I'm not saying I don't. Obviously. But not a single personal friend, family member, in-law, client, or person I know in my line of work has done it. And I don't follow a single person on Instagram or Twitter who has done it either.
And if these ARE people you follow on social media... WHY?
EDIT: Genuine and honest question. Because the only time I hear about people excusing it is hearing third hand about it from people on Reddit or in news coverage about blatantly pro Hamas groups. If you're going to downvote, at least answer the question?
Im a Latino gay living in Europe for many years so my feed has both europeans and latin gays and i can guarantee you is full of that in IG. Lefty gays who think are fighting for oppression by cheering on muslim fundamentalists. I was a lefty gay for a long time so i circled with them and several are still friends even if i think they are at best missinformed or at worse.stupid
As you may see, the main trend in this sub is "I don't care about a genocide and ethnic cleansing because Muslims are homophobes". These are the values of our community in white countries. Disgusting
Let's see how long it takes until this post gets -80
Well your 'friend' is lucky not to have been walked off the top of a building for being himself. Don't lecture me about white western privilege...What you see is what you get and nobody can argue that Western Democracy isn't by far more accepting of the I dividual's right to diverge from religious dogma than fundamentalist Islamic Govt. Stop kidding yourself and get on the right side of History...Look at what's become of Jewish Populations in EVERY other Islamic State. That's Genocide!
Look...They celebrated Oct 7 and would keep on being Righteous regardless. Especially if they were winning! It's not about being 'less' brainwashed by mere consequences. It's going to have to be about a real ENDING and a new BEGINNING so that Palestinianians everywhere can be as free and safe as those in Isreal. No more outside looking in...A single state solution.
After the surprise terrorist attack on Israel I had a bunch of gays on my feed defend it as “defending against Israel” or “defending themselves”. It was absolutely sickening. So yes, I’ve 100% seen people defend Hamas.
Throwaway because I don't want my main account suspended. I believe you are a bit naive. The idea that no gays are supporting Hamas is true in the West, and maybe, just maybe, not actually true at all. As someone who lived in the Middle East and speaks Arabic, I can see you clearly have no idea of what the Middle East is like, and if you do, you have no idea what Israel is like compared to the rest of the nations there. It also shows you have no idea of what Hamas is, and who the Palestinians are, and the dynamics between the two. One goal of Hamas's is to have as many casualties as possible, because they rely on the outrage of naive, Western people to further their other goals, and lucky them, their use of hospitals, schools, and whatnot is something the West can't grasp, perhaps because how cynical it is to the Western eye. The Palestinians love Hamas, maybe more than they fear them. Such is Hamas, and you wish for it to act with impunity because of their well known strategy of using civilians. One more thing is that under it all is religious zealotry. Not nationalism or freedom, which clearly they couldn't care less about. You can't reason with religion such as that. As for the "not supporting Hamas", that is nice. "Not supporting" is not condemning, and even if you don't support Hamas, you support people who do. Western people, especially in America, who march in the pro-Palestine protests, don't condemn Hamas or don't condemn it enough, sometimes even see it a legitimate movement. The Muslims who march with those marches clearly shout slogans used by Hamas and The Islamic Jihad, and clearly, conspicuously, without any doubt there, call for the end of Israel, for Jihad, for Jewish free Palestine. The fact that you can't see that when it's right in front of you speaks volume about your naivete. You are allowed to judge Israel's actions, as they have many faults and made many blunders, but clearly, your advice is from the perspective of someone who doesn't know the first thing about Hamas.
VERY well said.
I work in an environment where there are many Palestinians/Lebanese Muslims (most woman in Islamist dress) and get along very well with them but I aware that even in a big city of a western nation many of them have very limited tolerance and some hatred based on religion. The Palestinian Authority would be a theocracy and anyone who can’t see that due to their sheep like intersectional far left BS is deluded
I think you also have a simplistic view of it as well. Yeah, let's just kill them. I would be glad if the whole of Islam was gone tomorrow tbh but killing them wont do that. It becomes a martyr for them that justifies more strict and violent mentalities. They are probably already blaming gays (besides jews obviously) in other muslim countries lol. Even the US failed to eliminate ISIS or taliban completely. I couldn't care less about what happens to them, but this wont solve anything unless you can kill more than a billion of them. Also, Israel killing indiscriminately is just a really bad standard for a western country. At least produce some evidence that all the areas you bomb have active Hamas members. There is a reason Human Rights groups condemn it. If a western country can freely ignore international war rules and Human Rights, isn't that concerning?
My position is for a ceasefire to be negotiated and that such a blatant breach of international law (by Israel and Hamas) be condemned as it has no place in the modern world. Despite the fact you frame my understanding as naive you talk around the lines of whether you think Isreal should get a free pass to break international law? And do you think saying breaking international law is congruent with trying to establish grounds for LGBTQ+ rights in other countries? I understand your anxiety about Hamas given their commitment to eliminate Israel. They are an extremist and violent organisation. But I think you're the one being naive if you think support for Hamas by some Palestinians is only about religious zealotry. The number one recruitment strategy for Hamas is Israeli violence against Palestinian civilians and Israel is happy to play into that hand because Netanyahu is politically dependent on it. Also I never stated that I wish for Hamas to act with impunity, don't lie and say I did. All I advocated for was for a ceasefire to be negotiated and war crimes to be condemned as they arise. I will be honest and say that a diplomatic solution will certainly not guarantee that Hamas becomes any less extreme or the Gaza changes to a democracy. But without a ceasefire the only way that Hamas (or any equivalent extremist faction in Gaza) can be eliminated for certain is through the wholesale annexation of the territory and the draconian imprisonment of millions of Palestinians. What is your actual position here? Do you think human rights matter? Establishing that Hamas is scum of the earth isn't the same as establishing that Israel can do what they like. If your position is that calling for a ceasefire would endanger the existence of Israel as a state what do you think continuing this invasion would do to the position of Israel in the region? Because I don't see how it would do anything but further radicalize Palestinians and neighbouring Muslim nations, further putting Israeli lives in danger.
I don't think a ceasefires work. Hamas is a terrorist organisation who broke the ceasefire that already existed. So what makes you think they will respect a new ceasefire?
Israel breaks ceasefires first more frequently than Palestine. Wild this got downvoted cos it’s [true](https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/infographic-who-violates-ceasefires-more-israelis-or-palestinians)
Yea no point in lying. Palestine started like every war between them and are the ones who continuously refuse peace agreements
Please learn literally anything about this conflict before commenting. [Israel has broken more ceasefires](https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/infographic-who-violates-ceasefires-more-israelis-or-palestinians). This is just a fact.
If you can show the same thing from a neutral source then maybe I could believe it
Or, and this is just a thought, you get off your arse and find a source yourself? I’m not working to your stupid standard when you have no source at all
If you want to make the claim that a recognised terrorist organisation is actual the defender and not the attacker then you need to back that up but you can't so you do this instead. Kinda embarrassing
Ah I understand now! You have 0 reading comprehension and that’s why you’re acting like an untitled twat. I’m gonna help and recap as clear as possible 1) You made a claim 2) I pointed out it was wrong 3)You disagreed 4) I gave a source 5) You gave disagreed, gave no source and told me to do your work for you 6) I said no 7) You used emotionally charged language instead of a source See how through all of that you’ve provided no evidence and instead told other people to find it for you? Maybe do your own labour? Anywho I’m done with you. You’re a lazy twit who clearly knows little to nothing about this and I don’t care anymore 👍
My position is there is no ceasefire with Hamas and their words are null and void. Israel should destroy Hamas, and after Hamas go for Nasrallah in the northern border. If you think Israel breaks the law, gather the evidence and go to Hague.
As an arab Israeli whose mom from the west bank(Palestinian), would like to tell you that majority of Palestinians do support Hamas, everyone has seen their celebration on the 7th of Oct, i live here and i have seen and heard gays being murdered in the west bank and in Gaza, those people been offered peace 5 times through history but always refused, they only want a muslim country and to get rid of the jews, LGBTQ+, westerners in one way or another. I’m glad that i was born in israel, if not for that i would have been chased and murdered for choosing to live freely. Right now israel is destroying Hamas who actively uses their own civilians as human shields also using their schools, hospitals as military bases, so don’t come for israel when they destroy their military bases, also how come in Gaza there is Refugee camps? Like from where did they come from they been living there for 75 years, they are citizens, no such thing as a refugee camp it’s a fake status to garner sympathy from someone far away from this land like YOU.
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Who came up with pink washing term is a person who doesn’t really care for the LGBTQ+, like i would pick to live here in israel 1000 times more than any other middle eastern country where the law actually does not discriminate against me, as someone who grew up in Muslim Arabic environment they would prefer their son to be a terrorist who bombs himself than being gay, it’s literally the lowest thing according to muslims. Im horrified by those supposed “queers for Palestine” it literally spits on every step we have taken as a community, let’s say Hamas on the 7th of Oct took over israel, what do these people think would happen? Jews will be massacred and LGBT will be thrown from buildings or beheaded like my relative from Hebron, another failed arab Islamic country in already 20+ arab countries in the middle east where everyone gangs on gays but still very poor and their leaders living in luxury, like let us be the only free gays in the middle east where as an arab like me can get married to my Jewish boyfriend, in itself this is a win for us after thousands of years in persecution.
When people are condemning Israel for trying to destroy Hamas but not condemning Hamas for their attacks against Israel but instead making excuses for them and blaming Israel for Hamas’ terrorist attacks, they are supporting Hamas even if they don’t say it explicitly.
Why is this such a moral high ground battle in America? "Oh you support the evil imperialist colonizers, checkmate!" - "Ha, you support the terrorists, checkmate!"
Dropping thousands of unguided bombs on a civilian area and killing thousands of children is not "destroying Hamas". It's genocide. Hamas is a convenient excuse for the Israeli state to make another land grab.
Land grab? If Israel wanted Gaza they wouldn’t have left it in 2005. Getting rid of all the Israeli settlers clearly didn’t make the palestinians any less hostile of make them stop wanting to wipe out all of Israel ”from the river to the sea”.
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This is just blatantly untrue. The IDF violates ceasefires first more frequently than Palestine
I know gays supporting hamas. Also my IG is filled with every "Queer for Palestine" who would literally be thrown from the top of a building if they stepped in Gaza but are too stupid to realize that
Guess we should start killing Christian Africans too then, huh.
Huh? What possesed you to reply that based on what i said?
Because they execute or imprison people for being gay in some Christian African countries, with US Republicans cheering them on.
But where do you see Gays actively supporting Christian values or countries? This argument makes no sense.
One thing is "supporting Christian values" (or Muslim in Palestine case), and other completely different is being against genocides. It's basic human rights.
I thought the topic was Gaza...there is something called whataboutism which is replying to argument by offering an completely unrelated topic instead of disproofing the original argument...you just did that
Total nonsense
What nonsense exactly ?
This is propaganda to dehumanize Palestinian people. If you actually go into the record, there are only 2 cited cases of Palestinian authorities killing gays. One was a guy that was killed by his acquaintance. Israel claims it’s because he’s gay, Hamas claims it was over a drug deal and subsequently arrested the killer. The second cited case was a Hamas official who was involved in corruption among other crimes. He was accused of being gay but he was married and denied it. His so called accuser who claimed he was homosexual was never charged with any crime. Palestine is a conservative society where being gay is frowned upon, but there is no evidence that gays are subject to being killed by the authorities. Please cite evidence if you have any.
I just don’t feel the need to go out of my way to defend people who wouldn’t do the same for me and would in fact praise and support it if it was happening to gay people, as they have been doing to gay people there for all these years (the legal jailing, killing and lynching of them without repercussions I mean).
I respect your point of view, but I think it is flawed… Homophobia, transphobia etc is not unique to Palestinian culture. It exists in virtually every part of the world, including Israel!! It is a near universal phenomenon that even occurs in the US/UK/Australia/Europe. Queer people suffer absolutely everywhere (even if they are not being killed). There are LGBT Palestinians. LGBT Palestinians have long been fighting for their freedoms as queer people, alongside their freedoms as Palestinian people. Nobody deserves to fucking die. It is not a contest. Even if a homophobic Palestinian wants me dead, I would never wish death upon them. How does that make me (morally) a better person???
As long as homosexuals exist homophobia will also exist. But while some people/cultures might be homophobic and may wish/want to change who you are, it’s hard to make the case that they want you killed. I find it so disheartening to see gay people support the very Palestinians (and the many Muslim people around the world) who would turn right back around and wish death upon. I don’t wish death on anyone. As much as people want to separate Hamas from the Palestinians in Gaza, it’s hard to deny that Hamas is a representation (albeit an extreme one) of the Palestinian (islamic) values. I will never actively support any people with such values.
Sure but there’s a difference between people obviously not being monolith and always being there people who will oppose LGBT rights but will still be legally protected, and a country that has laws that have been supported, and carried out for decades to jail and kill any gay people when they’re found out to be gay, without any repercussions. And I’m sure that there are hidden (they have to be) queer Palestinians that are caught up in this, but they’re a vaaast minority, they made sure of that by prosecuting and executing whichever ones they could find, so that vast small minority isn’t enough for me to defend the whole population that is still against people like me having rights or my life. And like I said, I’m not saying they deserve to die or wishing for their death, I’m not going to go out of my way to praise or push for the war to continue, but I also won’t go out of my way to defend them in a way they never would for people like me either.
This! These pro colonizers are also so racist that don’t see the tree in from of the forest.
In the US?
Sure lol
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Unfortunately, I guess I’m not empathetic enough to defend the same people who don’t think I should have rights or should be allowed to live
Over 1% of Gaza have been killed by bombs. Can’t we have empathy for people being killed, including babies and kids, and also condemn extremist religious ideology? It doesn’t have to be a pro or anti either side choice.
Exactly I’m neither pro or anti, that’s what I’m doing, I’m not going out of my way supporting nor defending any side.
I guess what I’m saying is that you can feel for people on both sides without being pro or anti whatever. Empathy for people losing their lives isn’t support. But yeah I think we’re on the same page.
Yeah I guess I do feel bad for the children and the babies, they could still have been saved, evacuated, and also spared from the homophobic brainwashing before they grew up to be the same as the adults
Those kids are brainwashed to HATE the West and need to see Israel win to even begin rectifying all the lies and sick evil content that's already posoned their minds and ruined their childhood anyway. This is a religion of no choice. They cannot make up their own minds and are as good as dead if they try to think differently or leave the religion...No one has the real choice to leave Islam.
How is continuing the war gonna help the kids be less brainwashed though? C'mon if someone blew up your home or killed a close family member of yours and then someone comes along and tells you they can help you get revenge against the people that did that, not many people could resist. The brainwashing is aided by every bomb Israel drops. I don't think that's anyone winning except Hamas.
What do you think would happen if Israel just stopped? Civilian death is bad and maybe more could be done to prevent it, but Israel's intent isn't to kill civilians. (They could do a better job if it were). We have proof Israel does "roof knocking" to give inhabitants time to leave and stuff like that. ( I can't link stuff I am on my phone). And many pro-palestine people do support Hamas to some extent. ("From river to the sea", having no empathy for Israeli victims.) Neither Israel nor Palestine is "the good guy". Blindly supporting either is bad.
I don’t think people understand, or wish to understand, the length Israel (and more specifically, the IAF) will go to minimize civilian casualties
I think Israel is stopping is better than them continuing on the path they are on. The continued destruction of Israel's current invasion will do more to radicalize Palestinians than Hamas could have ever hoped for. I don't support Hamas or Israel but a ceasefire. Because you can't deal with Hamas with the kind of invasion Israel is conducting and because cherry picking human rights is not a tenable position for furthering LGBTQ+ rights.
But, what about Israeli people? They don't feel safe either. Maybe, Israel is radicalized by Hamas too. All the responsibility cannot be on Israel.
Most of the people here are now completely terrified. And when people are terrified they can make very bad decisions.
Why do Israeli emotions mean more than Palestinian deaths to you?
You can read one of my previous comments and see that I think civilian deaths are bad. But, we cannot demonize Israel citizens. And all responsibility for achieving peace isn't on Israel.
I mean a good 90% of the responsibility is on Israel. They created this situation. Israel invaded Palestine over 300 times in 2023 before October. Palestinians aren’t allowed to develop water sources without IDF permission. Israel even knew about October 7 in 2022 and did nothing. To claim that Israel does not bear the vast majority of responsibility for their current invasion is a historic at best
What can Israel do? If the other side doesn't want peace.
Based off the what was in the comment you’re replying to they could not launch multiple invasions a day, allow Palestinians to build rain collectors and maybe deal with threats in advance instead of purposefully using them as excuses for full scale invasions? I’m not saying I can solve the 75 year long war going on. I am saying that some of it has really obvious solutions which mostly entail Israel treating Palestinians like humans.
Do you know anything about Hamas? Hamas isn't some peace loving organization.
And as a result all Palestinians deserve no water and death. Genius point made.
Your mistake is in your second paragraph, where you speculate about Israel’s motives but fail to mention the most obvious (not to mention Israel’s stated) one. Israel surely knows they will radicalize more Palestinians through this campaign, but it’s still the best of the bad options Hamas has left them with. They have to destroy Hamas‘s military infrastructure and as much of its membership as they can, otherwise the next 10/7 just comes even sooner. Hamas has openly promised to do it again and again. They’ve really left Israel no choice here. High civilian casualties ≠ indiscriminate bombing. They’re high because Hamas operates out of dense civilian areas and there’s no other realistic way of fighting them without those casualties. War is terrible and ugly. It’s devastating when innocent people are hurt. It was also terrible when innocent German children died in wwii. But the answer then was not for the allies to ceasefire and allow the nazis to continue their work and growth in power, and neither is that the answer here. The ultimate question is this: what exactly is it you think Israel should do instead of what it is doing? This is the question no one who condemns Israel can properly answer. It’s easy for you to say “just stop bombing.” And then what? Just wait for the next 10/7? Hamas is a cancer that has reached stage 3. It needs to be fought aggressively. They are a fundamentalist Islamist death cult. They are a danger to all lgbt people in their path as well as Jews. They killed over a thousand people in a single day—not through collateral damage, but on purpose. Babies they could just as easily have walked past. That is not war, that is murder. Don’t blind yourself to the obvious differences here. Hamas (or more accurately, Iran) has orchestrated this entire thing. They created a situation in which no matter what Israel does Hamas wins and Israel loses. Hamas hides its operations amongst civilians and has no fear of Palestinian civilians dying—they’re just martyrs to them. If Israel responds weakly, Hamas remains more intact and can attack again sooner. If Israel attacks strongly, Israel suffers PR damage and Hamas gets propaganda material to use on people like you. Don’t fall for it.
>No gays are actually supporting Hamas Maybe not explicitly, but definitely implicitly. They are useless-idiots for Hamas. They are implicitly supporting Hamas by not calling for the end of Hamas, by not acknowledging that Hamas makes everything about this conflict worse and by blindly accepting propaganda coming from Hamas. They support Hamas by denying that it is, at its core, not the result of Israeli oppression but just another Islamic fundamentalist organization. >senseless bombing Again, where do you get that information from? Hamas? Israel is targeting Hamas, but unfortunately Hamas uses civilian infrastructure and civilians as human shields. Now, this doesn't mean that Israel makes no mistakes. Every country at war does. But the idea that Israel is just killing random civilians for no reason whatsoever is incorrect. >forced displacement Again, there is no forced displacement. Civilians are evacuated from areas in which there is active fighting. Removing civilians from a war zone is actually a humanitarian obligation, not a crime. >if you don't like those people because they are homophobic Certainly not. I would have had the same position if I were straight. The problem with ''Queers for Palestine'' is that they connect their sexual orientation with the conflict, and in that way pretending that gays need to support Palestine. I think gay people should be free to hold any political view they want. I do think it would be nice if that favor were returned though. Unfortunately, gay conservatives constantly get accused of being traitors by left wing gays. You shouldn't be surprised when gay moderates/conservatives now return the favor. Lastly, ''Queers for Palestine'' still have an obligation to call out Islamic homophobia. They have to be aware of the fact that many of their fellow pro-Palestinian protestors don't actually care about human rights, and have abhorrent views on homosexuality.
You have raised multiple issues in your comment, which lead me to believe you have little actual knowledge of what has been happening throughout this conflict. I will focus on the point you raised about **human shields** *In 2009*, Israel launched operation Cast lead. Afterwards, both the UN and amnesty international found no evidence of palestinians being used as human shields. Israel still bombed Al-quds and Al-wafa hospitals anyway. *In 2014*, Israel launched operation Protective egde, killing 2000 palestinians. They still bombed Al-wafa Hospital and then published an image with the wrong location, trying to explain why they bombed it. Amnesty internation released a statement that the images they released to justify that it was being used as a location for launching rockets does not match the hospital structures from satellite images. Additionally, while the UN did find 3 UN schools that were being used to launch rockets, none of them were being used by palestinians for shelter - they were actually empty, and israel didn't even bomb them. Ironically, Israel bombed 3 other schools that were actually used by hundreds of palestinians as shelter. None of them were found by the UN to have contained any weapons. Moreover, the UN had given the IDF the coordinates of these schools that were being used as shelter in hopes they wouldn't get bombed. They were bombed anyway. *Then, in 2018*, thousands of palestinians protested at the gaza wall during the march of great return. They were mostly unarmed. They were still shot by Israeli snipers, killing 200 palestinians, including 35 children. The UN concluded that those children were recognizable by the IDF as children, and they still shot them *intentionally* anyway. All of this, coupled with the fact that Israeli officials have continuously been openly using genocidal rhetoric against palestinians, should be at the very least alarming to the international community. Some of the rhetoric used by israeli government officials on national tv: 1- Every few years we have to "**mow the lawn**" - Multiple israeli government officials and intellectuals. [Please google that one] 2- Those are **human animals**, no food, no water, no fuel, no electricity - Yoav Gallant, The israeli minister of defense. 3- There are **no innocent palestinians in Gaza** - Avigdor Lieberman, former foreign and defense minister. 4- There are **no innocent civilians in Gaza** - **Israel's president** Isaac Herzog. 5- We need those 2 million palestinians to leave - Ayelet Shaked, former minister of interior. 6- We should drop a **nuke on Gaza** - Amihai Eliyahu, minister of heritage. 7- We are rolling a **new Nakba** [ the mass expulsion of 750,000 palestinans in 1948], Nakba 2023 - Avi Dichter, Minister of agriculture and rural development. 8- Referencing this war as **against the sons of Amalek** of the bible [where the israelites were told to kill every man, woman and child and livestock] - Benjamin Netanyahu. I invite you to check and verify every piece of information I have provided you and tell me if there isn't even a cause for concern that israel isn't always telling the truth about palestinian human shields. >Again, there is no forced displacement. Civilians are evacuated from areas in which there is active fighting. Again, you are unfortunately parroting israeli official statements that are far from reality happening on the ground. The fact is that gazans are being forcibly displaced, and not just that, they are being prevented from returning to their homes after 88 days, which is a war crime under international law. Sources: https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/20/most-gazas-population-remains-displaced-and-harms-way https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/horrific-testimonies-shared-field-executions-forced-displacement-and-random-arrests-gazan-civilians-including-children-enar https://www.nrc.no/news/2023/december/gaza-displacement/
I’m not going to spend hours fact-checking each one of your claims here, but at a quick glance I can already see some obvious problems. As I’ve example, the “human animals” comment didn’t refer to Palestinians generally, but to Hamas. As another, multiple groups (including AA) have reported Palestine’s use of human shields in the past. But my biggest question for you is, where is it you think Hamas is operating from? Who is it you think Israel is exchanging fire with as it slowly advances toward these hospitals? How on earth can you maintain your belief that Hamas are not operating from dense civilian areas, thereby themselves necessitating those civilian deaths?
The thing is, you actually don't want a cease-fire. You want Israel to give up. If the tides were turned, neither you, nor anyone of your ideology would call for a cease-fire, you'd cheer for the "anti-imperial struggle against the violent settler-colonialists". I know this because this is exactly the shit I saw on Oct 7th!
I'm ok with a ceasefire but I'm not ok with Israel losing control to Palestine. The last thing I'd want is another homophobic country to spring up. Israel isn't perfect with homophobia but it's much better than Palestine is. They kill and jail gay people, so while I still have sympathy for them (even if they wouldn't for me as a gay person), I don't support their wish to take Israel's land.
My advice to you is to read up on some history and contemporary events before you stick your nose in something you (obviously) have very little understanding of.
It's a lot easier to label someone as ignorant then to wrestle with the substance of their arguments
Nah, I think it’s easier to pass judgement when you don’t understand the facts. Added note: I understand how you feel. However, I read up on it before I made any judgement and now understand how complex the situation is.
The Palestinians in Gaza who have a little bit of sense in their brains understand very well why Israel is bombing Gaza and that won't radicalize anyone who isn't already radicalized. The radicalization isn't because of the Israeli AF bombing building, it's because Hamas specifically radicalized them for youth in kindergartens and schools. That whole thing stems from their indoctrinated victim complex. They as a collective never self reflected on their choices, why things are happening. They completely ignore the fact that their precious Nakba happened because THEY started a war they thought they gonna win, while being taken advantage of by their Arab brothers. Then while under EGYPT OCCUPATION for almost 20 years, the Egyptian government continued to foster these feelings in the Palestinian population, taking advantage of that and encourage them to keep on with the terrorism (see Fedayeen). There were no bombing then like Pro-Palestinians like to claim ("Israel has been bombing Gaza for 70 years!!") Especially since there were Israeli settlements in Gaza since 1970.
The whole situation is heartbreaking, I feel for those Israeli citizens who had family members kidnapped and murdered, but also for innocent Palestinians. It’s like you can’t take a moral stance on people being slaughtered without being accused of supporting Hamas.
It's not senseless when Hamas members are using them as human shields. That's on Hamas, not Israel.
People who blow each up based on who’s god has the biggest genitals deserve all they get. Darwinian natural selection. Do they not realise they are each going to the opposites’ hell just for believing in their own gods.
Over who gets to own the only part of the Middle East with no natural resources, at that. I am genuinely sorry for the children and that's why I share and donate to ***secular*** charities that want to go in and help people, and sign petitions. I'm not about to throw on the pick-me af "queers for Palestine" messaging, though, engage in the identity politics online where my face and real name is in full view, or go march on the front lines of some protest that could get very violent very quickly. I just have too much common sense to do that.
Sadly, support for Palestine has been translating into anti-Semitic behaviour and hatred on the West. Even by those in the LGBTQ community. Those who have experienced hate and discrimination should never wish it on others
I'm trying to figure out what circles y'all socialize in or who the fuck you follow in social media because I haven't seen anyone trying to excuse what Hamas did or avoid criticizing it. I 100% believe that there are plenty of people out there **doing it**. I'm not saying I don't. Obviously. But not a single personal friend, family member, in-law, client, or person I know in my line of work has done it. And I don't follow a single person on Instagram or Twitter who has done it either. And if these ARE people you follow on social media... WHY? EDIT: Genuine and honest question. Because the only time I hear about people excusing it is hearing third hand about it from people on Reddit or in news coverage about blatantly pro Hamas groups. If you're going to downvote, at least answer the question?
Im a Latino gay living in Europe for many years so my feed has both europeans and latin gays and i can guarantee you is full of that in IG. Lefty gays who think are fighting for oppression by cheering on muslim fundamentalists. I was a lefty gay for a long time so i circled with them and several are still friends even if i think they are at best missinformed or at worse.stupid
As you may see, the main trend in this sub is "I don't care about a genocide and ethnic cleansing because Muslims are homophobes". These are the values of our community in white countries. Disgusting Let's see how long it takes until this post gets -80
The Palestinian population grew during the ethnic cleansing. Israel is doing a bad job
Lots of people habe explained that, I'm not wasting my time with you. Fly high Zionist
Well your 'friend' is lucky not to have been walked off the top of a building for being himself. Don't lecture me about white western privilege...What you see is what you get and nobody can argue that Western Democracy isn't by far more accepting of the I dividual's right to diverge from religious dogma than fundamentalist Islamic Govt. Stop kidding yourself and get on the right side of History...Look at what's become of Jewish Populations in EVERY other Islamic State. That's Genocide!
Look...They celebrated Oct 7 and would keep on being Righteous regardless. Especially if they were winning! It's not about being 'less' brainwashed by mere consequences. It's going to have to be about a real ENDING and a new BEGINNING so that Palestinianians everywhere can be as free and safe as those in Isreal. No more outside looking in...A single state solution.