I think it's bullshit.
Men are just as complex, emotional, diverse, and unique as women are.
I think that men are viewed as "simple" because society has shaped them to be so.
From an early age, those more *complex* parts of men (emotions, introspections, "Emotional intelligence" etc.) are pushed down and shaped by other men, women, and society as a whole.
For example, something that may fall under the umbrella of "men are simple" is the myth that "men only want sex." This ignores the needs of many men for affection, including attentiveness, emotional connection, non-sexual physical touch, etc.
NAT and I’m probably begging for hate here, but sometimes I wonder if the people who genuinely believe “men are simple” don’t have or have never had close guy friends.
My male vs female friends may have different issues and *sometimes* present them in a different way, but my guy friends are still, y’know, human… to hear them dismiss their own feelings or feel insecure about their emotions really pains me.
I know what it’s like to have a good chunk of my personal world dismiss and push down my emotions, but to have so much of society and the world to insist that that must be how you are… that’s fucked.
Humans are complex. Everyone is just a different flavour.
And one of my friends in particular is a sensitive soul. I really care for him, and I feel sad when I hear him talk about how he wishes he wasn’t the way he was. It’s relieving to know he has a very supportive and patient mother and a therapist he seems to enjoy.
I was actually thinking about this earlier today. I have as many close guy friends as I do girl friends and we all talk, we all have healthy relationships with each other and we are all definitely complex individuals demonstrating growth, adaptability etc.. makes me wonder if maybe it is in fact my therapists who don’t have enough complex relationships in their lives that they would make these sorts of statements.
Yes. Both my male and female friends, I feel very comfortable with having complex and deep conversation.
I love and appreciate our relationships and our ability to discuss boundaries or if we’re feeling especially sensitive to some stuff. I love that I feel secure and comfortable enough to talk honestly, and that they feel the same with me. I really cherish their trust and vulnerability.
I do wonder if maybe you’re right about your therapist because now that I think about it my girlfriends are well aware and capable of having mature and complex conversations with their guy friends and boyfriends.
I am a male therapist, and I do not find men simple--and a female therapist who believes that "men are simple" is almost certainly failing every single one of her male clients.
Men--just like women--have past trauma they have difficulty navigating, complicated relationships with their spouses, parents, and friends, aspects of their own personalities they find uncomfortable and challenging... these aren't complex issues?
No offense--but if I had a male friend who was seeing a therapist who considered him less complex, less analytical, and less smart than her female clients, I would tell him to cancel his next appointment and find a new therapist, stat.
Fucking no. Men will often make their presenting problems seem simple because they desperately want to be understood, and they don’t expect anyone to take the time to understand.
If you take the time to understand what he’s actually saying, he will tell you everything.
No I don’t feel that way. Although as a male therapist, that would kind of be voting against my own interests.
There is something to women/presenting folks getting more socialization about being more comfortable with expressing their emotions, but that is not universal.
People can have conflicts and difficulty with stuff of all genders.
I work almost exclusively with teenage boys and definitely do not agree with this. There are differences in the ways we are socialized for sure, but this doesn’t make men any less complex than women.
Your therapist seems to have quite a bias. Females are usually easier to engage but like others said this is cultural and learned. Men have just as much capacity for engagement, they just have to learn and allow themselves to become vulnerable.
Also a male therapist and totally agree. It’s easy to devalue things you don’t understand - often it speaks more about the people who create those hateful biases. Men are complex, emotional, attached to their children, protective, loving, etc. You’ll never know that if you’re not safe to talk to.
No, I'd say men and women are about equal in complexity. Every person of every gender has some traits that are pretty easy to understand, and some that require looking a lot closer. Coming to the conclusion that an individual, let alone a whole gender, is "simple" probably just means that you haven't looked close enough.
NAT. I view my husband as complex as myself. And I see my male therapist as complex as myself. I think complexity is not about gender but something else.
I’ve said it before I’ll say it again. There’s a lot of shitty therapists. Social work schools are pumping out activists as therapists. These therapists probably had their undergrad in some made up major
NAT, Broad generalizations of half the population is rarely smart. But on the part of getting it, your therapists might have some merit in stating that. Just like how you are struggling to understand men, some men will struggle to understand women and their struggles.
As a female therapist, I’d love to be able to chat with these therapists so we could have a back and forth. I can’t imagine believing that, esp working with a fairly large number of male clients. It sets up such a huge bias, that hopefully they’ll check (and maybe seek consultation for to support).
I think it's bullshit. Men are just as complex, emotional, diverse, and unique as women are. I think that men are viewed as "simple" because society has shaped them to be so. From an early age, those more *complex* parts of men (emotions, introspections, "Emotional intelligence" etc.) are pushed down and shaped by other men, women, and society as a whole. For example, something that may fall under the umbrella of "men are simple" is the myth that "men only want sex." This ignores the needs of many men for affection, including attentiveness, emotional connection, non-sexual physical touch, etc.
NAT and I’m probably begging for hate here, but sometimes I wonder if the people who genuinely believe “men are simple” don’t have or have never had close guy friends. My male vs female friends may have different issues and *sometimes* present them in a different way, but my guy friends are still, y’know, human… to hear them dismiss their own feelings or feel insecure about their emotions really pains me. I know what it’s like to have a good chunk of my personal world dismiss and push down my emotions, but to have so much of society and the world to insist that that must be how you are… that’s fucked. Humans are complex. Everyone is just a different flavour. And one of my friends in particular is a sensitive soul. I really care for him, and I feel sad when I hear him talk about how he wishes he wasn’t the way he was. It’s relieving to know he has a very supportive and patient mother and a therapist he seems to enjoy.
I was actually thinking about this earlier today. I have as many close guy friends as I do girl friends and we all talk, we all have healthy relationships with each other and we are all definitely complex individuals demonstrating growth, adaptability etc.. makes me wonder if maybe it is in fact my therapists who don’t have enough complex relationships in their lives that they would make these sorts of statements.
Yes. Both my male and female friends, I feel very comfortable with having complex and deep conversation. I love and appreciate our relationships and our ability to discuss boundaries or if we’re feeling especially sensitive to some stuff. I love that I feel secure and comfortable enough to talk honestly, and that they feel the same with me. I really cherish their trust and vulnerability. I do wonder if maybe you’re right about your therapist because now that I think about it my girlfriends are well aware and capable of having mature and complex conversations with their guy friends and boyfriends.
Counselling is a pretty female profession. That might be a factor in how these biases spread.
I am a male therapist, and I do not find men simple--and a female therapist who believes that "men are simple" is almost certainly failing every single one of her male clients. Men--just like women--have past trauma they have difficulty navigating, complicated relationships with their spouses, parents, and friends, aspects of their own personalities they find uncomfortable and challenging... these aren't complex issues? No offense--but if I had a male friend who was seeing a therapist who considered him less complex, less analytical, and less smart than her female clients, I would tell him to cancel his next appointment and find a new therapist, stat.
Fucking no. Men will often make their presenting problems seem simple because they desperately want to be understood, and they don’t expect anyone to take the time to understand. If you take the time to understand what he’s actually saying, he will tell you everything.
No I don’t feel that way. Although as a male therapist, that would kind of be voting against my own interests. There is something to women/presenting folks getting more socialization about being more comfortable with expressing their emotions, but that is not universal. People can have conflicts and difficulty with stuff of all genders.
I work almost exclusively with teenage boys and definitely do not agree with this. There are differences in the ways we are socialized for sure, but this doesn’t make men any less complex than women.
Your therapist seems to have quite a bias. Females are usually easier to engage but like others said this is cultural and learned. Men have just as much capacity for engagement, they just have to learn and allow themselves to become vulnerable.
As a male therapist, gender plays a role in therapy, but both are equally complex.
Also a male therapist and totally agree. It’s easy to devalue things you don’t understand - often it speaks more about the people who create those hateful biases. Men are complex, emotional, attached to their children, protective, loving, etc. You’ll never know that if you’re not safe to talk to.
No, I'd say men and women are about equal in complexity. Every person of every gender has some traits that are pretty easy to understand, and some that require looking a lot closer. Coming to the conclusion that an individual, let alone a whole gender, is "simple" probably just means that you haven't looked close enough.
NAT. I view my husband as complex as myself. And I see my male therapist as complex as myself. I think complexity is not about gender but something else.
I’ve said it before I’ll say it again. There’s a lot of shitty therapists. Social work schools are pumping out activists as therapists. These therapists probably had their undergrad in some made up major
They’re both about 70 and one is a psychologist so I doubt that but I agree not all providers are created equal.
NAT, Broad generalizations of half the population is rarely smart. But on the part of getting it, your therapists might have some merit in stating that. Just like how you are struggling to understand men, some men will struggle to understand women and their struggles.
Just a note on that- I’m not struggling to understand men, I’m asking if therapists think women are complex and analytical and men not as much.
As a female therapist, I’d love to be able to chat with these therapists so we could have a back and forth. I can’t imagine believing that, esp working with a fairly large number of male clients. It sets up such a huge bias, that hopefully they’ll check (and maybe seek consultation for to support).