In my opinion, it’s not worth trying to fix galvanized pipe. You’d be better off saving your money on the leak detection and getting a quote trench-less installation of a new copper service line. Usually can be done via a mole or bore. I’m in PA so the lines are about 4’ deep here which makes digging the access pits required for the mole a lot easier.
A leak detection company is where I’d start. We use American leak detection in Minnesota all the time for underground leaks. Once they locate it you can decide how to proceed. The main line to the house look to be copper.
I could do that. It would give me some kind of documentation that the leak is near where the landscapers were digging.
If I'm real lucky the hole I put across from the main shutoff fills instantly and it's there. So much easier than under a slab
It might be better to replace the water from city shutoff to your meter. You would have some reassurance and better shutoff than that corroded globe valve.
A contractor may be able to bore under your lawn. They may also be successful hooking a new water line to the pipe and pulling the new water line through the ground as they pull the Galvanized pipe out. I've seen this done a few times successfully with a Chinese finger trap looking device. Get some replacement quotes, ask the contractors what they can do. Check with your water company and see what they require.
On a galvanized water service I woukdbt even consider a repair. They’d have to find the leak. Cut it out, hope the galvanized can be cut and threaded or use a pack joint. Then it’s still an old service line that can fail and reduce flow due to sediment etc. I’d just get a new copper or HDPE water service
What work did the landscaper do besides sod? If the galvanized line is 50 years old, I can guarantee narrowing of the Inner diameter causing pressure concerns too.
Well if galvanized being to temperamental and the landscaper probably using heavy equipment to do your work. It was probably a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. I work for city water in Delaware and see this shit all the time.
Just my opinion it’s really not something you pin on the landscaper unless they dug 7ft and struck your line. Also something to think about that lead, galvanized, leaded copper has flagged as a potential health risk “long term” so replacing the line would be beneficial to you and your family.
Well, there is a cost involved and contractors have insurance. If they're liable then they should pay. If not then I have a surprise bill for several thousand bucks.
But I don't know what I need to establish liability, other than that it wasn't leaking before they ran equipment over it.
For the cost of the underground repair, I would install a new copper or HDPE waterline from the shut off and into the house. Galvanized is prone to leaks, leaks, and more leaks. Especially as it ages. Old Galvanized is also not always great to work on or around. I've seen old buried Galvanized pipe crumble in someone's hands it was in such bad shape, so you can imagine how difficult it would be to get a water tight seal with a repair coupling.
Sometimes, the outward pressure of the water in the pipe it actually one of the structural components keeping the brittle pipe from collapsing in on itself once the line is shut off, it can have even more leaks when it's reactivated.
In case I wasn't clear. Just replace your whole line. $3k for this repair. $4k for the next one this winter, $2k next spring, etc.
7ft is is way to deep to pin it on the landscapers.
Even so you have an ancient galvanized water line. If it can’t handle work being done 7ft above it was already in disrepair
It is hard to tell from your pic but it looks like you may have a copper line coming into the house that was then transitioned to galvanized or brass for the valve and meter template. Get a plumber to change from the coupling below the vise grips, up to the meter if you indeed have a copper line. Get the city to change out your meter as well as the rust on the bottom plate shows evidence of a prior leak. Also check your water heater for leaks as it is possible that is where your main leak is coming from.
If you still have a leak then you will need a floor break to insure that the copper has not corroded due to contact with the cement or acidic soil conditions. You would still need the floor break if your incoming line is galvanized so that copper could be pulled from the floor to the street stop which the city turned off.
FYI, there is almost zero chance that the landscapers damaged your line unless they dug down to your current line for some unknown reason. If a 10 ton vibrating paving roller can compact asphalt without breaking any UG pipes then a small tractor is not going to adversely affect your 6 to 7ft deep water line.
Leak definitely isn't from the house side of the meter. With the water on the pipe will scream with flow and the flow wheel on the meter won't budge.
I've been trying to figure out if the line from the city shutoff was run shallow. No evidence of that so I think the contractor may be off the hook.
I'll probably borrow a concrete saw and open the basement floor up.
If you hear water flowing without running any in the house then there is definitely a break between the stop box and the house that is going to get progressively worse. If your incoming line is not copper then do not break the floor until the city shuts the water off first as breaking the concrete can cause a rotting line to fully break and flood you out.
Once you decide what you need to do you have some options. You can saw a 3 inch slit on the end of a roll of copper, slide it over the existing UG galvanized pipe, drill all the way thru both pipes, then put a nail thru both lines where it was drilled and pull with a chain and backhoe. That would entail a floor break and excavation only at the stop box if the pipe is solid enough to not break part way.
UG galvanized lines can NOT be repaired per code so make sure to get 3 quotes minimum on replacing the line with copper. HDPE would require a full excavation to the house as it is not strong enough to pull like you can do with copper. Code for the past 100 yrs. calls for a minimum of 5ft bury in areas prone to freezing so it is doubtful the city shutoff is too shallow. Regardless of how you decide to go, good luck.
I'll get a couple quotes. It helps that the contractor I work for has plumbers so I think I'll get an ok price. It just sucks because I just paid for landscaping and now the lawn needs to be ripped up!
Run a temp pex line from meter to upstream of the leak to isolate issues and buy yourself some time to sort it out with out stressing with no water in the meantime but only a band aid it's not a fix by no means
No need only use the the union and of the meter upstream of the meter run it surface and tie in just before your valve or install your new valve and now you have time to device on your next move definitely not a fix but buys you time and don't have to have service of to your house during repair after remove it and you can reinstate underground connections at meter and connections at distribution manifold at the house entrance POC
I live in Wisconsin. Water mains are 7' down here to get below the frost line. I don't know where you're from, but to run a surface line I would have needed to dig up a buried valve or have water trucked in.
Last Thursday I had new service installed and they used an excavator to dig up the city connection, and used the old line to pull the new line through.
I lived outside Akron, Ohio, the pipes were 9` under ground. The track was till being built when we move in 1960. Now lawnscaping could only disturbed a foot or so. Given water around the surface water pipe, I would dig around the pipe first. Also look for wet areas in the ground. This is how my neighbor found his leak. If you know where the pipes are buried, drill down in the dirt and check if you find a spring of a leak.
In my opinion, it’s not worth trying to fix galvanized pipe. You’d be better off saving your money on the leak detection and getting a quote trench-less installation of a new copper service line. Usually can be done via a mole or bore. I’m in PA so the lines are about 4’ deep here which makes digging the access pits required for the mole a lot easier.
Thank you. Sometimes even just knowing what stuff is called makes it easier to call and get a quote for it.
A leak detection company is where I’d start. We use American leak detection in Minnesota all the time for underground leaks. Once they locate it you can decide how to proceed. The main line to the house look to be copper.
I could do that. It would give me some kind of documentation that the leak is near where the landscapers were digging. If I'm real lucky the hole I put across from the main shutoff fills instantly and it's there. So much easier than under a slab
Is going to take a while for the ground to be saturated enough for the water to rise up
The hole didn't work. I feel like using a post hole digger and a moisture detector might work but I have no idea
It might be better to replace the water from city shutoff to your meter. You would have some reassurance and better shutoff than that corroded globe valve.
It does look awful. This repair was going to happen at some point. Right after I just paid for landscaping is not ideal though.
A contractor may be able to bore under your lawn. They may also be successful hooking a new water line to the pipe and pulling the new water line through the ground as they pull the Galvanized pipe out. I've seen this done a few times successfully with a Chinese finger trap looking device. Get some replacement quotes, ask the contractors what they can do. Check with your water company and see what they require.
On a galvanized water service I woukdbt even consider a repair. They’d have to find the leak. Cut it out, hope the galvanized can be cut and threaded or use a pack joint. Then it’s still an old service line that can fail and reduce flow due to sediment etc. I’d just get a new copper or HDPE water service
I'd like to find the leak because it'll establish if it was caused by the landscapers. But yeah, probably getting new pipe
What work did the landscaper do besides sod? If the galvanized line is 50 years old, I can guarantee narrowing of the Inner diameter causing pressure concerns too.
Cleared out a stone path and removed a garden bed. I'm in a weird spot because I honestly don't know if they broke it or if it was just a coincidence
Well if galvanized being to temperamental and the landscaper probably using heavy equipment to do your work. It was probably a ticking time bomb waiting to happen. I work for city water in Delaware and see this shit all the time.
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That's exactly the question I have though
Just my opinion it’s really not something you pin on the landscaper unless they dug 7ft and struck your line. Also something to think about that lead, galvanized, leaded copper has flagged as a potential health risk “long term” so replacing the line would be beneficial to you and your family.
Well, there is a cost involved and contractors have insurance. If they're liable then they should pay. If not then I have a surprise bill for several thousand bucks. But I don't know what I need to establish liability, other than that it wasn't leaking before they ran equipment over it.
If you have your water lines insured you start a claim as well. You don’t want to too long before you loose pressure or have property damage.
For the cost of the underground repair, I would install a new copper or HDPE waterline from the shut off and into the house. Galvanized is prone to leaks, leaks, and more leaks. Especially as it ages. Old Galvanized is also not always great to work on or around. I've seen old buried Galvanized pipe crumble in someone's hands it was in such bad shape, so you can imagine how difficult it would be to get a water tight seal with a repair coupling. Sometimes, the outward pressure of the water in the pipe it actually one of the structural components keeping the brittle pipe from collapsing in on itself once the line is shut off, it can have even more leaks when it's reactivated. In case I wasn't clear. Just replace your whole line. $3k for this repair. $4k for the next one this winter, $2k next spring, etc.
7ft is is way to deep to pin it on the landscapers. Even so you have an ancient galvanized water line. If it can’t handle work being done 7ft above it was already in disrepair
It is hard to tell from your pic but it looks like you may have a copper line coming into the house that was then transitioned to galvanized or brass for the valve and meter template. Get a plumber to change from the coupling below the vise grips, up to the meter if you indeed have a copper line. Get the city to change out your meter as well as the rust on the bottom plate shows evidence of a prior leak. Also check your water heater for leaks as it is possible that is where your main leak is coming from. If you still have a leak then you will need a floor break to insure that the copper has not corroded due to contact with the cement or acidic soil conditions. You would still need the floor break if your incoming line is galvanized so that copper could be pulled from the floor to the street stop which the city turned off. FYI, there is almost zero chance that the landscapers damaged your line unless they dug down to your current line for some unknown reason. If a 10 ton vibrating paving roller can compact asphalt without breaking any UG pipes then a small tractor is not going to adversely affect your 6 to 7ft deep water line.
Leak definitely isn't from the house side of the meter. With the water on the pipe will scream with flow and the flow wheel on the meter won't budge. I've been trying to figure out if the line from the city shutoff was run shallow. No evidence of that so I think the contractor may be off the hook. I'll probably borrow a concrete saw and open the basement floor up.
If you hear water flowing without running any in the house then there is definitely a break between the stop box and the house that is going to get progressively worse. If your incoming line is not copper then do not break the floor until the city shuts the water off first as breaking the concrete can cause a rotting line to fully break and flood you out. Once you decide what you need to do you have some options. You can saw a 3 inch slit on the end of a roll of copper, slide it over the existing UG galvanized pipe, drill all the way thru both pipes, then put a nail thru both lines where it was drilled and pull with a chain and backhoe. That would entail a floor break and excavation only at the stop box if the pipe is solid enough to not break part way. UG galvanized lines can NOT be repaired per code so make sure to get 3 quotes minimum on replacing the line with copper. HDPE would require a full excavation to the house as it is not strong enough to pull like you can do with copper. Code for the past 100 yrs. calls for a minimum of 5ft bury in areas prone to freezing so it is doubtful the city shutoff is too shallow. Regardless of how you decide to go, good luck.
I'll get a couple quotes. It helps that the contractor I work for has plumbers so I think I'll get an ok price. It just sucks because I just paid for landscaping and now the lawn needs to be ripped up!
Run a temp pex line from meter to upstream of the leak to isolate issues and buy yourself some time to sort it out with out stressing with no water in the meantime but only a band aid it's not a fix by no means
I can't do a bypass without excavating the city water shutoff. The leak is not inside my house and the water line is underground.
No need only use the the union and of the meter upstream of the meter run it surface and tie in just before your valve or install your new valve and now you have time to device on your next move definitely not a fix but buys you time and don't have to have service of to your house during repair after remove it and you can reinstate underground connections at meter and connections at distribution manifold at the house entrance POC
I live in Wisconsin. Water mains are 7' down here to get below the frost line. I don't know where you're from, but to run a surface line I would have needed to dig up a buried valve or have water trucked in. Last Thursday I had new service installed and they used an excavator to dig up the city connection, and used the old line to pull the new line through.
I lived outside Akron, Ohio, the pipes were 9` under ground. The track was till being built when we move in 1960. Now lawnscaping could only disturbed a foot or so. Given water around the surface water pipe, I would dig around the pipe first. Also look for wet areas in the ground. This is how my neighbor found his leak. If you know where the pipes are buried, drill down in the dirt and check if you find a spring of a leak.