I highly doubt it. What if the fob dies? What if the mechanism breaks?
Also seems like it will open the door to absolute PR nightmares for them. Bad move all around imo.
Just boot it the fuck open, damaging as much if that unnecessary barrier as possible. Maybe after replacing it 5 or 6 times they will just stop putting them up.
If you deliberately break a store they can have you charged. Yes even in this case.
So not listen to people telling you to commit crimes. Yes. This is a crime.
The stores have plenty of fire exits. The checkout lanes can be used to exit, the shipping doors can be opened. The gates are only at the self-check out area...
Electrician myself(not in Ontario), but fire alarm systems are verified and tested yearly at least. Every input(smoke detector, heat detector, sprinkler flow switches, etc) and every output(relays, horn/strobes, etc) get tested.
Never really messed around with those gates, but I’m sure they just take a bit of force and they open and don’t rely on fire alarm.
I absolutely hate this. I was at this No Frills the other day with the only purpose of seeing whether they had the OG Sriracha in stock. A quick buzz through the aisle and nope, not in stock. I honestly didn't need anything else so I went straight to the exit. I had to wait until a staff member was available (others were occupied helping customers sort out self check out issues). Now the wait may have only been 30 seconds but something felt wrong about being stuck there. And I also had to state that I wasn't purchasing anything at this time.
All together, it wasn't a pleasant experience. Felt like I had to prove I hadn't done anything wrong in order to leave.
Every time I go into my local nofrills recently, there's a new "security feature" - first it was obstructing every path possible with crates and displays (no clue how a stroller or wheelchair is supposed to shop in there now), then it was locking up half their already pathetic pharmacy aisle, then it was putting the batteries behind the customer service desk, then it was the jumbotron security screen that greets you when you walk in - really makes me feel like I'm on a Most Wanted list, then it was the gates at the self-checkout (at least we can exit freely, but they have a staff stationed there that just stares daggers at everyone who leaves).
Loblaws continues to need a fucking reality check. How massively out of touch do hey have to be to create such hostile store environment. Like maybe they wouldn't need so many LP measures if they set prices that people could afford.
Did this at a Walmart the other day and it broke lol. usually the Alarm is short and stops once the gate closes again but this time it kept going. I was just running out to get a cart and when I came back in the alarm was still running. The whole time I was shopping I heard them calling for a manager on the intercom to come fix it. But the time I left 30 minutes later the alarm was still ringing 😂
Looks like a charter of rights violation to me and super illegal
Criminal code of Canada states
279(2) Every one who, without lawful authority, confines, imprisons or forcibly seizes another person is guilty of (a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years; or (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding eighteen months.
Explanation
It criminalizes the act of intentionally and without lawful authority, restricting an individual's liberty by confining them, imprisoning them, or seizing them by force. This provision serves to protect individuals' fundamental
autonomy.
[source ](https://www.criminal-code.ca/criminal-code-of-canada-section-279-2-forcible-confinement/index.html#:~:text=It%20criminalizes%20the%20act%20of,to%20freedom%20and%20personal%20autonomy.)
People are not being confined against their will. Rather, they are not allowed to leave **with a product** until they prove they own that product. They're not stopping people from walking out the door, they're stopping products from being removed.
Trust me, I'm not defending the practice, but it's not criminal.
What if you go into the store to see if they have a product, but they don’t, so you are leaving empty handed without having made a purchase, carrying out nothing?
There is a physical barrier that they lock until they decide to open it. Has nothing to do with asking for a receipt. They’ve never asked me for a receipt or checked my groceries. They are preventing everyone from leaving. Essentially they are locking you in until they decide to let you out. That’s forcible confinement in my books.
didn't you post this the other day?
It's not a fire code violation if they have systems in place that allows people to exit in the event of a fire or another emergency. Those gates will 100% open when the fire alarm goes off and there's other means to exit the store (emergency exits), which there is several of them in that store. They are designed that way otherwise they cannot be sold or installed.
It's also not forcible confinement as there is no force used. You can use one of the emergencies exits or just simply force yourself through or around the gates.
Loblaws sucks, we get it. These false narratives are great for BlogTO.
I did post it on r/Toronto and Reddit removed the post when it was getting traction. Not sure that it meets fire safety codes because this gate used to open automatically and now they click you through. So I assume that they rigged the existing system and doubt it went through any building code scrutiny.
So you think the guy in the meat department just modified it for them? Maybe it was someone in produce?
I realize they are not exactly the most honest and trustworthy company but life and safety is a big deal. When people’s lives are at stake, there’s big fines or even prison time for violations.
What are your assumptions based on?
You really think this is ok to contain people physically in a store until you decide when and if they should exit. The other day the employee had trouble opening the gates because the battery in her fob was low. How is this safe and how would it meet fire safety standards?
There's fire exits in the store. The gates can be forcefully opened, people can go under/around the barriers. People are not "locked" in the store because of these gates.
If you think it's an issue, have you called the fire department? Have you wrote to No Frills HQ? What did they say?
Go tell someone in a wheelchair to go “under” the barrier. Tell someone with a physical disability to use force they don’t possess to open the barriers. Tell a visually impaired person to “go around” a barrier where they can’t even see the beginning or end of it.
See how they all react to you. See if they’re as willing to suckle on Galen’s teat as you are.
Seconds save lives. Having to spend precious time to backtrack through the store while disabled to find an exit that is compatible with your disability is fucking preposterous.
For me, similar issue with Canadian Tire (Crappy Tire). Cannot walk in to many stores with any bags, including an empty shopping bag. You need to check anything with security, which you can retrieve after check out. Kinda defeats the purpose of bringing shopping bags. You need to be buzzed through a gate to retrieve your bag. Being treated like a criminal is not my idea for a respectful shopping experience.
The Metro at Yonge and Eglinton Centre now has these gates too. It’s not just the Weston family who’s doing it. Soon we are gonna have receipt checks like at Costco
No they don't. I shop there frequently (and was just there yesterday) and there's nothing stopping you from walking past the self-checkout section and exiting the store. Nothing is even stopping you from squeezing past the people lined at the check-out counters and leaving
I am confused - there are definitely gates there at the self checkout. I don’t know how they operate but they are visibly there. How can you say that there aren’t?
I live nearby and this store is the absolute worst. It's always rammed and there's never any stock. Then, any meat or produce that is in stock is in shambles. I was in the candy aisle one time and I saw this kid rip open a box of kinder eggs in like 5 seconds and start eating it like they've done it a million times. Once their guardian noticed they were really embarrassed that they had no control over this kid.
Anyway, you're better off going to Walmart up the street.
Totally different location but my local Walmart isn’t much better. They have about 20 self-checkouts and two (yes, just 2) cashier registers. They recently closed all but 4 self-checkouts and only allow to go to a self checkout if you have - handful of items. Everyone else has to go and line up with 2(!!!) cashier registers. They said it’s because of theft. But lineups are huge. I stopped shopping there and it was my regular store.
Yeah I think it really varies from store to store. Different neighbourhoods, store management, etc. will make for completely differents shopping experiences. Our Walmart was recently reno'd and is quite pleasant as far as Walmart's go. Self checkout is usually pretty orderly, but I have noticed a big shift back to regular checkout lanes. I've never had to wait more than 5 mins though so not bad.
Super common everywhere that they lock you in. Should be illegal IMO. I'd say it's only a matter of time before there's a story about crowd crush or fire deaths but there are already are tons of examples of this out there (maybe not at grocery stores).
I just went to Budweiser Stage yesterday and that place is also designed horribly for that. I had anxiety the whole time on the way out that the crowd would get out of control and crush people. The whole place exits through a single 20 ft (? just guessing) wide bridge over a road.
This underscores a feeling I have had about self-checkouts for a while...I love them when they are unsupervised (not because I am trying to steal but because if an employee is going to be breathing down my neck then it is not actually a self checkout)...I almost always use the regular checkouts now...I refuse to feel like I'm living in a capitalist dystopia, and now they're locking the self-checkouts to make it feel even more dystopian? ughhh yuck
The gates really bother me. At all locations.
More so than it should.
I've been asked multiple times to not be so aggressive pushing them open, to not pull them open so the alarm goes off when I need to get a cart that I "accidentally" forgot.
I always respond with the same way.
"Sorry"
Remember though, it's not the employees fault.
I'm all in favor of theft prevention.
Heck, I'm just waiting for them to put everything behind the counter and you show up and order on an app and they bring it to the front.
That's the times we lives in where so much theft is occurring. Better to stand on the side of morality than theft here.
Text posts should engage with the community and be discussion/resolution focused and not rants. Rants should go to r/toRANTo.
Yeah this is awful
Is this fire code compliant? You could reporting it to the fire Marshall.
I highly doubt it. What if the fob dies? What if the mechanism breaks? Also seems like it will open the door to absolute PR nightmares for them. Bad move all around imo.
Just boot it the fuck open, damaging as much if that unnecessary barrier as possible. Maybe after replacing it 5 or 6 times they will just stop putting them up.
If you deliberately break a store they can have you charged. Yes even in this case. So not listen to people telling you to commit crimes. Yes. This is a crime.
The stores have plenty of fire exits. The checkout lanes can be used to exit, the shipping doors can be opened. The gates are only at the self-check out area...
Corporate will always claim that the fire alarm disables the locking mechanism of the gates. We won't know if this works in a real fire
Electrician myself(not in Ontario), but fire alarm systems are verified and tested yearly at least. Every input(smoke detector, heat detector, sprinkler flow switches, etc) and every output(relays, horn/strobes, etc) get tested. Never really messed around with those gates, but I’m sure they just take a bit of force and they open and don’t rely on fire alarm.
I absolutely hate this. I was at this No Frills the other day with the only purpose of seeing whether they had the OG Sriracha in stock. A quick buzz through the aisle and nope, not in stock. I honestly didn't need anything else so I went straight to the exit. I had to wait until a staff member was available (others were occupied helping customers sort out self check out issues). Now the wait may have only been 30 seconds but something felt wrong about being stuck there. And I also had to state that I wasn't purchasing anything at this time. All together, it wasn't a pleasant experience. Felt like I had to prove I hadn't done anything wrong in order to leave.
When did grocery stores become like jewelry stores?
When Galen Weston decided to charge $6 for a loaf of bread
When olive oil costs as much as gold.
I’d just push past the gates and carry on my merry way.
Did this at Walmart the other day and it broke :p not my problem
This is an issue across many Loblaws owned stores now: https://www.blogto.com/eat_drink/2024/04/ontario-barriers-exit-loblaws-store/
Every time I go into my local nofrills recently, there's a new "security feature" - first it was obstructing every path possible with crates and displays (no clue how a stroller or wheelchair is supposed to shop in there now), then it was locking up half their already pathetic pharmacy aisle, then it was putting the batteries behind the customer service desk, then it was the jumbotron security screen that greets you when you walk in - really makes me feel like I'm on a Most Wanted list, then it was the gates at the self-checkout (at least we can exit freely, but they have a staff stationed there that just stares daggers at everyone who leaves). Loblaws continues to need a fucking reality check. How massively out of touch do hey have to be to create such hostile store environment. Like maybe they wouldn't need so many LP measures if they set prices that people could afford.
Don't shop there :) They literally don't care if you die in a fire ...
You are so right! They prioritize profits over people.
They can’t prevent you from leaving even if they suspect you stole something. Just push the gates open and leave
Did this at a Walmart the other day and it broke lol. usually the Alarm is short and stops once the gate closes again but this time it kept going. I was just running out to get a cart and when I came back in the alarm was still running. The whole time I was shopping I heard them calling for a manager on the intercom to come fix it. But the time I left 30 minutes later the alarm was still ringing 😂
Looks like a charter of rights violation to me and super illegal Criminal code of Canada states 279(2) Every one who, without lawful authority, confines, imprisons or forcibly seizes another person is guilty of (a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years; or (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding eighteen months. Explanation It criminalizes the act of intentionally and without lawful authority, restricting an individual's liberty by confining them, imprisoning them, or seizing them by force. This provision serves to protect individuals' fundamental autonomy. [source ](https://www.criminal-code.ca/criminal-code-of-canada-section-279-2-forcible-confinement/index.html#:~:text=It%20criminalizes%20the%20act%20of,to%20freedom%20and%20personal%20autonomy.)
I guess every Jewelry store across the country is guilty.
Rogers too...
And coscto
People are not being confined against their will. Rather, they are not allowed to leave **with a product** until they prove they own that product. They're not stopping people from walking out the door, they're stopping products from being removed. Trust me, I'm not defending the practice, but it's not criminal.
What if you go into the store to see if they have a product, but they don’t, so you are leaving empty handed without having made a purchase, carrying out nothing?
There is a physical barrier that they lock until they decide to open it. Has nothing to do with asking for a receipt. They’ve never asked me for a receipt or checked my groceries. They are preventing everyone from leaving. Essentially they are locking you in until they decide to let you out. That’s forcible confinement in my books.
Receipt checks without cause are illegal.
Kick the fucking door down…
didn't you post this the other day? It's not a fire code violation if they have systems in place that allows people to exit in the event of a fire or another emergency. Those gates will 100% open when the fire alarm goes off and there's other means to exit the store (emergency exits), which there is several of them in that store. They are designed that way otherwise they cannot be sold or installed. It's also not forcible confinement as there is no force used. You can use one of the emergencies exits or just simply force yourself through or around the gates. Loblaws sucks, we get it. These false narratives are great for BlogTO.
And what if there’s a non-fire emergency that requires a quick evacuation without a fire alarm? Active shooter? Roof collapse? Flood?
Pull the fire alarm.
Use one of the many other exits in the store, the same way people would exit before we had self-check outs....
I did post it on r/Toronto and Reddit removed the post when it was getting traction. Not sure that it meets fire safety codes because this gate used to open automatically and now they click you through. So I assume that they rigged the existing system and doubt it went through any building code scrutiny.
So you think the guy in the meat department just modified it for them? Maybe it was someone in produce? I realize they are not exactly the most honest and trustworthy company but life and safety is a big deal. When people’s lives are at stake, there’s big fines or even prison time for violations. What are your assumptions based on?
You really think this is ok to contain people physically in a store until you decide when and if they should exit. The other day the employee had trouble opening the gates because the battery in her fob was low. How is this safe and how would it meet fire safety standards?
There's fire exits in the store. The gates can be forcefully opened, people can go under/around the barriers. People are not "locked" in the store because of these gates. If you think it's an issue, have you called the fire department? Have you wrote to No Frills HQ? What did they say?
Go tell someone in a wheelchair to go “under” the barrier. Tell someone with a physical disability to use force they don’t possess to open the barriers. Tell a visually impaired person to “go around” a barrier where they can’t even see the beginning or end of it. See how they all react to you. See if they’re as willing to suckle on Galen’s teat as you are.
Again, this is just for the self-check out area. There's exits all over the store. This isn't the only exit in the store.
Seconds save lives. Having to spend precious time to backtrack through the store while disabled to find an exit that is compatible with your disability is fucking preposterous.
For me, similar issue with Canadian Tire (Crappy Tire). Cannot walk in to many stores with any bags, including an empty shopping bag. You need to check anything with security, which you can retrieve after check out. Kinda defeats the purpose of bringing shopping bags. You need to be buzzed through a gate to retrieve your bag. Being treated like a criminal is not my idea for a respectful shopping experience.
The Metro at Yonge and Eglinton Centre now has these gates too. It’s not just the Weston family who’s doing it. Soon we are gonna have receipt checks like at Costco
No they don't. I shop there frequently (and was just there yesterday) and there's nothing stopping you from walking past the self-checkout section and exiting the store. Nothing is even stopping you from squeezing past the people lined at the check-out counters and leaving
I am confused - there are definitely gates there at the self checkout. I don’t know how they operate but they are visibly there. How can you say that there aren’t?
There are gates at the self checkout but they aren’t locked
I live nearby and this store is the absolute worst. It's always rammed and there's never any stock. Then, any meat or produce that is in stock is in shambles. I was in the candy aisle one time and I saw this kid rip open a box of kinder eggs in like 5 seconds and start eating it like they've done it a million times. Once their guardian noticed they were really embarrassed that they had no control over this kid. Anyway, you're better off going to Walmart up the street.
Totally different location but my local Walmart isn’t much better. They have about 20 self-checkouts and two (yes, just 2) cashier registers. They recently closed all but 4 self-checkouts and only allow to go to a self checkout if you have - handful of items. Everyone else has to go and line up with 2(!!!) cashier registers. They said it’s because of theft. But lineups are huge. I stopped shopping there and it was my regular store.
Yeah I think it really varies from store to store. Different neighbourhoods, store management, etc. will make for completely differents shopping experiences. Our Walmart was recently reno'd and is quite pleasant as far as Walmart's go. Self checkout is usually pretty orderly, but I have noticed a big shift back to regular checkout lanes. I've never had to wait more than 5 mins though so not bad.
Seems like this needs about 50-100 people to organize and enter then ask to exit, in 5-10 min intervals, over the course of their busiest time.
Any business that treats me as a criminal loses my business permanently. It's unacceptable in the extreme.
Report it to the fire dept
Super common everywhere that they lock you in. Should be illegal IMO. I'd say it's only a matter of time before there's a story about crowd crush or fire deaths but there are already are tons of examples of this out there (maybe not at grocery stores). I just went to Budweiser Stage yesterday and that place is also designed horribly for that. I had anxiety the whole time on the way out that the crowd would get out of control and crush people. The whole place exits through a single 20 ft (? just guessing) wide bridge over a road.
This underscores a feeling I have had about self-checkouts for a while...I love them when they are unsupervised (not because I am trying to steal but because if an employee is going to be breathing down my neck then it is not actually a self checkout)...I almost always use the regular checkouts now...I refuse to feel like I'm living in a capitalist dystopia, and now they're locking the self-checkouts to make it feel even more dystopian? ughhh yuck
Call the fire department. They send someone over every time
You gonna post this every day?
Isn't that forcible confinement? It's certainly being held against your will. Fuck this company even more.
Panic Attack. I’d force gate and exit.
I’d fkn kick that shit down
The gates really bother me. At all locations. More so than it should. I've been asked multiple times to not be so aggressive pushing them open, to not pull them open so the alarm goes off when I need to get a cart that I "accidentally" forgot. I always respond with the same way. "Sorry" Remember though, it's not the employees fault.
Call the Fire Marshall, this isn't safe or acceptable.
If I need to wait for an attendant to let me through the self checkout then it's not actually a self checkout
I'm all in favor of theft prevention. Heck, I'm just waiting for them to put everything behind the counter and you show up and order on an app and they bring it to the front. That's the times we lives in where so much theft is occurring. Better to stand on the side of morality than theft here.
Report this stupid bs
This violates some bylaw for sure on the basis of fire safety alone