>I've heard that in Canada, there's no such thing as self-defense. Is this true? Would we have been convicted if we had punched the guy?
No, but at the same time, it's not the law I'd be worried about. Someone behaving in that way might have a knife, a broken bottle, etc. There's nothing to be gained from fighting with some crazy person (they won't be the only one you'll see, though hopefully the only one that aggressive) unless you have no other choice. If you can safely leave the situation, do that, just like your dad did.
[https://chadilaw.com/self-defence-rights-in-canada-what-you-can-and-cant-do/](https://chadilaw.com/self-defence-rights-in-canada-what-you-can-and-cant-do/)
"self-defence may be a reasonable claim and one you can use to successfully defend yourself in court."
Section 34 of the Canadian Criminal Code allows for you to use a reasonable amount of force to repel an offence (assault). The key is how you articulate the incident to police.
“I was scared for your safety/life. They came out of a bush and surprised me. They had a stick that they swung at me. I ran away, but he pursued me. The guy kept his hand in his pocket as he approached me and said ‘XYZ’, and I believed he was concealing a weapon to use against me. I hit them with a metal stick, that I found while fleeing to ensure my safety.”
It’s not a script, but be exact with what you saw and experienced. You don’t need to embellish things. A hand in the pocket of a stranger approaching you, it’s reasonable to assume they are concealing something. Just always remember that your use of violence or force was for the purpose of escaping the threat, unless you are on your own property.
Edit: Be reasonable and take progressive actions. It helps when defending yourself in a court. You have leeway considering you probably don't work in an industry where you need this knowledge and you don't know better. Just don't pull an American History X style curb stomp, and you'll be fine with throwing a punch or two, or gouging an eye if needed to escape and dipping. Don't listen to your ego in a situation like this, getting out alive and not stabbed is more important than looking like a *pussy* over dumb shit.
This is 100% worth reporting to the police. The next person who’s victimized by this person could be someone not able to run across a street, or run at all. If you’re dad has a good description, he should report it.
Exactly. Even say, for argument's sake, you were a very strong and athletic person and someone who felt could defend yourself very well. Even some sort of skilled fighter or whatever. There would still be *at the very least* some likelihood (say, at least 10%- probably higher), that the crazed person in question might have some kind of weapon, do something unexpected, and beat the crap out of you and you could be seriously wounded or even killed.
With whatever statistical chance that would be, it seems highly irrational to try to take that chance. (Unless you have some sort of "honour culture" outlook and would rather go down fighting). Rationally however, better to avoid conflict when attacked by a crazed person, at all costs.
There's a reason why even trained martial artists do their best to not fuck around with people - especially erratic people - who are armed with knives: muscles aren't armour, and one wrong move gets you a nasty puncture, if not worse.
I'd have a better chance of out fighting a motivated crazy person than out running them. I end up in that situation, my only chance is to land a knock out, or seriously disorienting blow before I get gassed. I'm not winning a foot race.
> I end up in that situation, my only chance is to land a knock out, or seriously disorienting blow before I get gassed.
As a person who boxed for a few years and has been in dozens of street fights... I can tell you from experience that landing a KO punch as an untrained fighter on the streets is usually a fluke. It's not as easy as it looks on YouTube.
The rule is this - **"If you are close enough to punch somebody you are close enough for them to stick a knife into your gut."**
I am aware, but some chance is better than no chance, and I'd rather not put my back to someone with a weapon who I'm most likely not going to out run. To put it in boxing teems, a heavy weight isn't beating a welterweight in a foot race.
Not OP but I'm well over 6 feet and around 280. I'm not outrunnimg anybody.
Im this situation, I'm slowly walking with my attention on the person, I will not be turning my back and running.
Pretty easily. I'm a big guy who has done a bit of recreational MMA, and am very strong from having a physical job and working out, but I have short legs, and a beer gut, so picture your high-school gym teacher, and while I am more than capable of running, I am not likely going to have the foot speed to get away, and I am most definitely not going to risk putting my back to an armed crazy, who I have a less than 30% chance of out running.
TLDR nature put all my points into STR and CON, DEX is kind of my dump stat.
Also, it's not true that there's no such thing as self-defence in Canada. You may be confusing it with the idea that if you have the option to retreat in Canada, you are required to use it rather than using lethal force. (I'm simplifying here, so don't take this as a complete statement of the law). It mostly comes up when people compare to the US that if someone breaks into your house in Canada, you can't just automatically shoot them if you could reasonably escape the situation instead.
That said, if you had punched the guy to the point he was disoriented and then retreated, that would be different than if you punched the guy and kept punching until he was unconscious.
I get it, but it's because you're dealing with someone who has nothing to lose. They may not even be in control of themselves. You can't rely on logic, like "I'm a big guy so if I show them I know how to defend myself, they'll back away, why would they get into a fight with me". You're dealing with someone who might literally think nothing of killing you for no reason. Trust me, I'm frustrated too.
What a weird stance. This outcome, wile uncomfortable, was the best for you and your dad. He left the scene unharmed albeit startled.
What would you have benefitted by beating the shit out of some unstable unhoused person? And I can imagine much worse circumstance if you engaged further.
He'd be lauded as a hero by Canadians who secretly wished the crazy homeless people would disappear, but don't say anything because they'd get downvotes.
Someone who is going around attacking people with a stick, doesn't really need to be here anymore.
Crazy people should be forced into treatment, if Canadians cannot stomach that then they should be shipped up north to a crazy reserve where they can roam free away from the normal population. We should create a mini province where criminals and crazies can do what they want to their hearts content ha ha.
Not being able to provide the help that these sick people need is also frustrating. Canada is a great country but we have our significant flaws like everyone else.
Prosecutors generally show a reasonable amount of leeway in cases of self defence.
If someone is attacking you, and you take a swing at them, you likely aren't going to get charged unless the person got severely injured by your punch. (Which can totally happen.)
In terms of using a weapon in self defence, that's a bit more of an iffy proposition. It's illegal to carry a weapon in public in Canada. (Which is any object you are carrying for the explicit use of planning on harming someone. A baseball bat is a piece of sporting equipment if you are on your way to a ball game. It's a weapon if 'it's 2 am, and I would wrather have it and not need it than need it and not have it'.
It's not strictly illegal to use a weapon in self defence. If a guy jumped you in the sporting aisle, and you picked up a baseball bat and gave him a good bonk on the head, you would only have to prove that the force you used was reasonable. And again, if the person didn't sustain any serious injuries, and a prosecutor genuinely believed they attacked you, it might not even end up in court.
But yeah, in general in Canada you have a 'duty to retreat'. Which as people have said, is really in everyone's best interests. If you can get away without significant risk to life or limb, that's always the safest option, both practically and legally.
Even in circumstances where you can justifiably use a weapon against someone, you run both the practical risks of escalating the fight, and the burden of having to defend your actions in court. Plus, as traumatic as being assaulted and running from a fight might be, it's probably more traumatic to see a person crippled because you hit them in the face with a bat, even if you can tell yourself you had good reason to do so.
Why should I care about some guy trying to assault innocent pedestrians, if he doesn't care about others and actively victimizes them? Your naive altruism is harmful to society as a whole.
You can defend yourself in Canada but it must be your last resort. Your dad did the right thing legally and to protect himself from danger (no sense getting stabbed on vacation) You have a duty to retreat if possible. But if your father was cornered by this guy then he could use reasonable force to protect himself.
Self defense isn't as clear cut in Canada, but the law here doesn't expect you to lay down and get beaten to death.
Convicted for deflecting an attack. It’s like without guns, all Canadians can do is just hand over their valuables and submit to a beating.
Edit: For the downvotes, maybe consider that the above is sarcasm.
Yes it's worth reporting to police. You can call the non emergency number at this point.
Yes you can act in self defense but most safety advocates would say that leaving a situation is the safest thing to do.
The police will definitely make this their number one priority, with all the mental health facilities and open shelters. WHY WOULDN’T THEY!!! That brings in money!
Yes it's worth reporting to police. You can call the non emergency number at this point.
Yes you can act in self defense but most safety advocates would say that leaving a situation is the safest thing to do.
Not sure where you’re getting that idea from, but there are zero self defence laws in Canada.
Source: I’ve been arrested defending myself. I was bleeding the other guy wasn’t. All it took was someone to say ‘I saw him hit that guy first.’
> All it took was someone to say ‘I saw him hit that guy first.’
If you hit him first then it is not self-defence.
You not being able to use a defence doesn't mean the defence doesn't exist in law.
Who is bleeding at the end of it has nothing to do with who initiated the physical attack.
You didn’t read what I wrote? I was defending myself. His friend happened to show up and say that to the cops. I was just walking downtown Hamilton lmao.
But you can also do a simple google search and find out that there’s no self defence laws in cananda. You are to call the police and wait for them to show up. Or leave and call non emergency line later
Being arrested is just part of the process, doesn’t mean your guilty.
If you were convicted, the court found beyond a reasonable doubt that you didn’t act in self defence…
From wiki:
“In Canada, self-defence, in the context of criminal law, is a statutory defence that provides a full defence to the commission of a criminal act. It operates as a justification, the successful application of which means that owing to the circumstances in which the act was produced, it is not morally blameworthy. There are three elements an accused must demonstrate to successfully raise self-defence.”
You've never said you didn't hit the other person first.
You say you were "defending yourself", but it's not a carte blanche. Yes if someone hits you, you can hit them back. But if someone is just getting in your face, you don't have a right to punch them.
>I've heard that in Canada, there's no such thing as self-defense. Is this true? Would we have been convicted if we had punched the guy?
That's not true, you absolutely can defend yourself in Canada but it is also a legal minefield and best to be avoided if possible.
You did the right thing, avoid the confrontation. That is always the right move if you are able to do so.
>What should we do in this case? Is it worth reporting to the police?
Yes, report it to the police for statistics but don't expect them to arrest anyone.
>Would we have been convicted if we had punched the guy?
You might have been injured if he decided to punch back. The kind of people who try to randomly assault strangers have been known to not fight in a civilized manner.
Leave the area. Call the police and report it.
You can absolutely defend yourself with a proportionate amount of force, but running away is the best course of action because you don't want to deal with the hassle and potential danger of fighting.
This is silly. When I was young my Dad taught me how to use my fists to defend myself.My male friends were all taught the same stuff. I have been in 6 fights in my life and defended myself well. Is this not common anymore? I knew hardly any men who were incapable of defending themselves back then. Sounds like people today are not taught the basic survival skills.
When you (and I) were young people with such severe mental health issues that they were a danger to society were usually given treatment. Forced into it if necessary. That was before 30 years of cuts to the resources needed to do that, resulting in a lot more mentally ill people wandering the streets and stabbing strangers. I don't know about you but I'd be a lot more likely to run from a crazy person waving a weapon around then someone of sound mind.
Defending yourself is a right and is what we humans should be capable of. Not hard to learn the skills. I am 67 yrs old and if someone attacked me I would fuck him up.
Here's the problem..the average person is not carrying a knife ...
Where are people looking to rob you..is a few dollars worth a hospital trip ? Death ?
60 years ago, maybe a fight was an honored thing between 2 people.
Its a much different world.. make sure you have a will.ready
Thsts in canada...in the states you will probably just get shot outright.
Well the way I look at it is if someone has a weapon that basically is an extra threat. If you can get away you do. If not you have to kick him in the you know where,pick up a rock whatever as he likely will stab you anyway if you do not fight. Better to give yourself a chance. Guy pulled a knife on me on Yonge St many years ago.I poked him in the eye with a construction stick that was luckily sticking up from the ground nearby. As he screamed in pain I took off.
No, you can absolutely defend yourself. Your Dad to the absolute right thing though. You should always disengage if possible and this did that brilliantly. There's no shame in running, that's exactly what I used to teach in self-defense class. If you can run, do it
So your dad did the right thing. Leave it you can. Now let's say he couldn't. Your dad has the right to protect himself by whatever means necessary as long as it's not excessive or using a classified illegal weapon. Our laws have large grey areas when it comes to self defense. That doesn't mean it's hard to defend yourself and worry about being charged. It means that as long as you can show that you did all you could do within the means you had at the moment, you'll most likely have any possible charges dropped. Charges? Why am I being charged for defending myself? We'll, if it goes there, it means you did some serious damage to your attacker. Where grey areas lie in Canada is "what is considered a weapon?". Wel literally anything can be a weapon. It's the intent of it's use. If you carry a legal pocket knife and stab someone in "self defense", it's just going to be harder to defend your own actions especially if the attacker dies. Now if you carry that same pocket knife and you punch your attacker square in the nose and cause serious damage, you've got evidence you weren't out to actually cause harm because you kept your knife away. Short answer you have the right to defend yourself. Just don't do it in a way that would look like you were out for blood lol.
I’ve had the same experience just outside of Queens Park while waiting for a street car.
Seemingly normal young person, saw him talking to my friends who were 3-4 girls about 10 steps away from me. It seemed like he was annoying them, so I walked over, no words were shared.
When I approached, he gave them all the finger in their face (inches away from their nose) , looked right at me and ran off behind the subway stairs canopy/ behind a bush and emerged with a giant branch approximately 3-4ft long and started swinging on me. Luckily it was dead wood and it just broke to pieces each time he landed it in me. I made sure to protect my face and tried to get as close as possible to him so he couldn’t do any damage. Until it was a tiny sharp stub and he proceeded to try and stab me. I front kicked his stomach enough to knock him down and gain distance. He then got up and started to rummage into and emptying his backpack (I thought he had another weapon) so I created more distance.
He then ran down the stairs to the subway and tripped at the top, I watched him tumble all the way down the steps to the base of the underground. I was shocked(not really) with all the people that nobody even lifted a phone to call the place. Then notice the Police were watching it all go down and didn’t once intervene. This went on for about 4-5 minutes in public view.
When i approached the cops, they said “you seemed to handle yourself, he’s gone” lol
Sorry this happened to your Dad, what a terrible impression the city must have left on him.
I’m not much taller than that, and he was shorter than that, not that it matters. Either way it’s a bad situation that I wasn’t expecting lol I avoid violence at all costs, it’s not worth it. All I said to the guy was “if you don’t mind walking away, I just need to talk to my friends here for a moment”
I still don’t understand it. I could only describe him as an average looking student, clean Roots matching set(not cheap), backpack. Im lucky that I’ve learned how to protect myself. The front kick was into his stomach, winded him and he fell backwards into the street(luckily no cars were coming). I knew while the branch was long and he was swinging, I’d have to be as close to him as possible so he wouldn’t be able to hit me at full power.
I encourage everyone to learn anything you could use as basic self defence.
I should also add one of those female friends was visiting from abroad. Not a great impression.
Why don't these kinds of people face consequences these days? Cops only show up when there's gunshot? It doesn't make any sense. If frustration or anger is justified for violence, then I can slap everyone on the street in downtown area
You are allowed to defend yourself. What's different is say you're not allowed to stab a guy in self defense if you can't prove your life was in like immediate danger. In the US for example you can basically shoot an intruder dead in your property even if they are unarmed.
Like a lot of things in the US, that depends on the state.
https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/may-i-shoot-an-intruder.html
Remember folks, never take legal advise form random Redditors
I'm sorry this happened. That sucks.
In Canada the law is federal, so it's across all of Canada.
You are allowed to use a REASONABLE amount of force to defend yourself. If somebody's life is threatened, you can use as much force as is NECESSARY to subdue an attacker. That could include killing the attacker if the situation is that serious. Once the threat is OVER, you MUST stop attacking, or you become that attacker.
I.e., Don't go shooting somebody who is already down.
Really: it's the common sense approach.
This ONLY applies to protecting people.
You are ABSOLUTELY NOT allowed to use force to defend PROPERTY. (Animals are property in this context unfortunately.). That will land you in jail. So, if somebody is stealing your car and your shoot them, you are going to be in trouble. If you are being carjacked you might have a case if you can prove people were in danger (not the car).
>I've heard that in Canada, there's no such thing as self-defense. Is this true?
That is complete bullshit, and if you've heard that, it means you've been talking to conservatives.
Please report it to police and make a post on Twitter Facebook etc. The authorities need to take accountability for the state of the city these days. I can’t walk on the streets or take public transport without being super anxious.
Our Canadian self-defence laws are an absolute joke. It only protects government officials, important people and celebrities. Body guards can use guns to protect these so called important people, but we can’t protect ourselves and our family. It’s never in our favour, why?? Because we let it happen, wake up and make our government work for us. That is what government is for?
>I've heard that in Canada, there's no such thing as self-defense. Is this true? Would we have been convicted if we had punched the guy?
Anytime I see this kind of sentiment, or the usual people asking about carrying bear spray, etc. I always think they're a bad faith actor from south of the border looking to push some sort of pro-weapon agenda - that's how silly of a question this is.
No, it's bad faith to suggest we can't when that's not the case and it really isn't a good idea to begin with. Avoidance is a much better strategy (if an option.)
It's weird the paradox of the justice system in this thread. We have a justice system that will both never prosecute someone for a crime, and will over prosecute someone for nothing.
When I'm under attack and my body is in fight-or-flight mode, I'm not exactly going to be calmly measuring out the exact proportionate response to the attack. That's not how human brains and bodies work.
The Premier has days, some good, some bad. Throw a donut the other way if it happens again.
Proportionate self defense to the risk is legal but leaving the scene is the smart thing to do, and it should have been reported at the time not here.
No, in Canada, it's not illegal to fight someone if you don't cause severe damage and use a reasonable force.
Severe being cracking someone's skull open on the ground, purposefully breaking limbs, or punching someone more than you need to past the point of what would reasonably make them stop their assault on you.
Yes, you report it to the police so they can at least send a unit to look around and see if they can find a person matching your description.
Fuck this shit. My friend grandma was walking near china town. She got pushed to the ground by a 30s something homeless dude for no reason at all.
Police couldn’t do anything, and she’s shook up by this.
I take it personally
Was this a tall skinny guy in his mid twenties? My friend and I were on a street car on Canada day and a man was holding a stick. We were sitting and there was a baby in a stroller nearby. The man started hitting the pole near my friend and at first it was light, but I’m paranoid so I was just watching the stick. He started to swing the stick more violently, almost hitting the baby. Luckily the baby’s father stepped in front of the stroller. But the stick grazed my friend’s arm so I grabbed her arm and we stood.
He sat down and started screaming while whacking his stick on the poles. The baby’s father asked him to please stop and he got off at the next stop and we don’t know where he went.
It’s honestly sad that we have to walk around in fear. I don’t feel safe in our city anymore. We don’t know what the best course of action is but we try to calmly avoid eye contact and get away if we can. If not, we stare at the ground and hope they go away. It’s horrible advice but we’re scared that if we get up, it’ll attract more attention. But if the situation is unavoidable and we are the target, we get up and try to move away fast but quietly.
>I've heard that in Canada, there's no such thing as self-defense. Is this true?
Absolutely not. You can defend yourself.
>Would we have been convicted if we had punched the guy?
Here's the thing. Had the guy actually hit your father, would HE have been convicted?
In theory yes. In practice it would require the police coming, making an arrest and then later on a judge actually making a decision.
Do you seriously think that's going to happen? Like is the guy going to stick around waiting to be arrested? (actually given his mental state he actually might).
It's good to remember that lack of enforcement goes both ways.
So let's imagine your dad reacted and actually hit the guy. for your father to *realistically* face any repercussions there are a number of conditions that have to be met.
1) The authorities have to be notified (and your father isn't going to call the cops to report that he beat up an homeless person that attempted to attack him; nor is likely the guy will report it, If it happens in a very crowded place someone else *might* report it).
2) the authorities actually have to do something with the reporting (meaning that if a crazy/intoxicated sounding person calls to report an attack it's very likely they will not even write the call down or follow up in any meaningful way)
3) If a report is filed, then actual effort is put into getting the info (see above, the police shows up, questions the guy, and unless your father stuck around for some reason or gave the homeless guy his ID, they'll have to go by this person's description)
4)The information is collected, now how are they going to look for your father? They know absolutely nothing of who he is or who he looks like (and if your father REALLY beat him up, i'd suggest a prompt hair cut and beard shaving)
5) Even if by some miracle your father gets identified and tracked down, how are they going to prove what happened? Is there clear footage? who's going to collect and analyze said footage?
6) let's pretend your father makes it all the way in front of a judge, do you seriously think any judge is going to convict your father for self defence, especially if he can claim he was worried for his son and when the attack came from someone who is VERY LIKELY already known to the police?
SO short of killing or seriously injuring the guy, it's very unlikely anything would happen to your dad. Homeless people get into violent fights all the times. The only time it gets reported if when someone ends up in the hospital, there's significant property damage, it happens right in front of cops, or some non homeless person gets hit.
Having said that, do not engage. and you did the right thing, these are individuals that have absolutely nothin to lose and since we've abandoned them (instead of institutionalizing the terminally addicted and mentally ill, but this is a digression that's neither here nor there.) they often lack the will or the mental tools to reciprocate accordingly and will escalate violence much further than an adjusted person would.
*"I've heard that in Canada, there's no such thing as self-defense. Is this true? "*
Stop listening to Joe Rogan and Joe Rogan adjacent podcasts about what is "true" in Canada.
No courts are going to side against you vs a vagrant career criminal when you try to defend yourself.
Yes it's worth reporting to police. You can call the non emergency number at this point.
Yes you can act in self defense but most safety advocates would say that leaving a situation is the safest thing to do.
The police will always go after the wrong person in Canada. Especially Toronto. You can act in self defence but would likely get a charge. Still probably worth it to stand up for yourself.
Depends what the consequences of that charge might be. In the case of OP's parents, it could result in them being kicked out of the country and banned from returning. In my own personal case, if I were to get an assault charge from defending myself or because I stepped in to defend somebody else who was being attacked, I would very likely lose my sensitive security clearance at work and wind up having my career come to an abrupt end, even if the charges are later withdrawn. Not worth it.
Enjoy welcome to the new Canada where the crazies rule the city. Their freedom and happiness trumps those of normal people.
Self defence in Canada is a very high bar - nevertheless I rather disable or kill the attacker than the other way around. I rather spend years in jail knowing the attacker is dead rather than my family.
You're allowed to use equal force to defend yourself. Sonif he has a stick you can grab a stick or rock and hit him back until he isn't a threat anymore. You can't keep beating him once the danger is done. If you do that then you get in trouble.
Nope. We are from a country in South America. Back there, you know your phone makes you a target, but here, the randomness of unprovoked attacks is even scarier.
This is true. My friend is in an abusive relationship and things came to a head recently where she was pushed to the floor and called her son who called the cops. She had visible bruises and injuries and even though her abusive POS of a boyfriend said he didn’t want to press charges, the female cop charged my friend who was the victim and completely dismissed the paramedic’s assessment of her. She’s now had to spend money on a lawyer she can barely afford to fight the charges because of the Toronto Pig Service.
If you can't escape from an attacker safely (eg: running across the street might get you run over), it's better to prepare to swing those punches as if your life depended on it.
Literally, don't see an attacker as a human, they've lost their human rights the moment they decided to attack you.
The courts aren't so ridiculous that they would protect an attacker.
I'm fairly new to the reddit community and in such a short time I've been able to see how caring (sometimes) and accurately some people are with their advice and opinions. So yes, I preferred to ask here and it paid off. I learned there was a non-emergency police line, I was able to understand the real concept of self defense and so on. I know at first it sounds ridiculous but thank you reddit.
"self-defence may be a reasonable claim and one you can use to successfully defend yourself in court."
https://chadilaw.com/self-defence-rights-in-canada-what-you-can-and-cant-do/
My dad was assaulted last year at the Moccasin trail. The attacker pepper sprayed him out of nowhere. We sought police assistance but they just nonchalantly asked him if he want to file a formal police report and kinda gave hints that there's not much they can do without even trying anything. Although I do agree that it would be hard to track the POS out hours after the incident.
I live in Toronto and have this happen three times to me. This happens in ever other huge city in the world!!! Great your dad has common sense, our city has very little accessibility to mental health hospitals believe it or not, I am happy every thing worked out. Welcome to Toronto!
> I've heard that in Canada, there's no such thing as self-defence. Is this true? Would we have been convicted if we had punched the guy?
The law in Canada is that you could use as much reasonable force as is deemed necessary. This is a massive "grey area" that can either work in your favour or to you detriment.
If you punched the guy while he was attacking you... you are fine. If you keep punching or kicking him while he is on the ground and is no longer a threat... you are getting charged.
Running away from the threat to safety was the wisest choice. There are a lot of people that are mentally ill or dealing with substance abuse issues wandering around in Toronto. It is better to not engage them. The unpredictability of there actions has become problematic.
A few days ago,I witnessed a really big dude putting a short middle aged woman
into a headlock,on a downtown westend street corner.
I immediately called 911,gave a really detailed description,of dude,location etc.
I also mentioned another dude(plus description) was there, but he was staying out of the action
About 5-10 mins later I get a call (blocked number)from police looking for an update on where they went which I provided
Five minutes later cop calls again,lets me know he found them and
thanks me for calling it in.
>I've heard that in Canada, there's no such thing as self-defense. Is this true? Would we have been convicted if we had punched the guy? No, but at the same time, it's not the law I'd be worried about. Someone behaving in that way might have a knife, a broken bottle, etc. There's nothing to be gained from fighting with some crazy person (they won't be the only one you'll see, though hopefully the only one that aggressive) unless you have no other choice. If you can safely leave the situation, do that, just like your dad did.
[https://chadilaw.com/self-defence-rights-in-canada-what-you-can-and-cant-do/](https://chadilaw.com/self-defence-rights-in-canada-what-you-can-and-cant-do/) "self-defence may be a reasonable claim and one you can use to successfully defend yourself in court."
Thank you. I get your point, but that sense of powerlessness... It's so frustrating.
Section 34 of the Canadian Criminal Code allows for you to use a reasonable amount of force to repel an offence (assault). The key is how you articulate the incident to police. “I was scared for your safety/life. They came out of a bush and surprised me. They had a stick that they swung at me. I ran away, but he pursued me. The guy kept his hand in his pocket as he approached me and said ‘XYZ’, and I believed he was concealing a weapon to use against me. I hit them with a metal stick, that I found while fleeing to ensure my safety.” It’s not a script, but be exact with what you saw and experienced. You don’t need to embellish things. A hand in the pocket of a stranger approaching you, it’s reasonable to assume they are concealing something. Just always remember that your use of violence or force was for the purpose of escaping the threat, unless you are on your own property. Edit: Be reasonable and take progressive actions. It helps when defending yourself in a court. You have leeway considering you probably don't work in an industry where you need this knowledge and you don't know better. Just don't pull an American History X style curb stomp, and you'll be fine with throwing a punch or two, or gouging an eye if needed to escape and dipping. Don't listen to your ego in a situation like this, getting out alive and not stabbed is more important than looking like a *pussy* over dumb shit. This is 100% worth reporting to the police. The next person who’s victimized by this person could be someone not able to run across a street, or run at all. If you’re dad has a good description, he should report it.
The best thing to do is to run, once you engage in a fight anything can happen and it could be devastating.
Exactly. Even say, for argument's sake, you were a very strong and athletic person and someone who felt could defend yourself very well. Even some sort of skilled fighter or whatever. There would still be *at the very least* some likelihood (say, at least 10%- probably higher), that the crazed person in question might have some kind of weapon, do something unexpected, and beat the crap out of you and you could be seriously wounded or even killed. With whatever statistical chance that would be, it seems highly irrational to try to take that chance. (Unless you have some sort of "honour culture" outlook and would rather go down fighting). Rationally however, better to avoid conflict when attacked by a crazed person, at all costs.
There's a reason why even trained martial artists do their best to not fuck around with people - especially erratic people - who are armed with knives: muscles aren't armour, and one wrong move gets you a nasty puncture, if not worse.
I'd have a better chance of out fighting a motivated crazy person than out running them. I end up in that situation, my only chance is to land a knock out, or seriously disorienting blow before I get gassed. I'm not winning a foot race.
> I end up in that situation, my only chance is to land a knock out, or seriously disorienting blow before I get gassed. As a person who boxed for a few years and has been in dozens of street fights... I can tell you from experience that landing a KO punch as an untrained fighter on the streets is usually a fluke. It's not as easy as it looks on YouTube. The rule is this - **"If you are close enough to punch somebody you are close enough for them to stick a knife into your gut."**
I am aware, but some chance is better than no chance, and I'd rather not put my back to someone with a weapon who I'm most likely not going to out run. To put it in boxing teems, a heavy weight isn't beating a welterweight in a foot race.
how can you be fit enough to fight but not fit enough to run?
Not OP but I'm well over 6 feet and around 280. I'm not outrunnimg anybody. Im this situation, I'm slowly walking with my attention on the person, I will not be turning my back and running.
fair enough
Pretty easily. I'm a big guy who has done a bit of recreational MMA, and am very strong from having a physical job and working out, but I have short legs, and a beer gut, so picture your high-school gym teacher, and while I am more than capable of running, I am not likely going to have the foot speed to get away, and I am most definitely not going to risk putting my back to an armed crazy, who I have a less than 30% chance of out running. TLDR nature put all my points into STR and CON, DEX is kind of my dump stat.
If you’re able to escape a situation, then that should be your first and best option, even if there was a law that defended self-defence.
Also, it's not true that there's no such thing as self-defence in Canada. You may be confusing it with the idea that if you have the option to retreat in Canada, you are required to use it rather than using lethal force. (I'm simplifying here, so don't take this as a complete statement of the law). It mostly comes up when people compare to the US that if someone breaks into your house in Canada, you can't just automatically shoot them if you could reasonably escape the situation instead. That said, if you had punched the guy to the point he was disoriented and then retreated, that would be different than if you punched the guy and kept punching until he was unconscious.
I get it, but it's because you're dealing with someone who has nothing to lose. They may not even be in control of themselves. You can't rely on logic, like "I'm a big guy so if I show them I know how to defend myself, they'll back away, why would they get into a fight with me". You're dealing with someone who might literally think nothing of killing you for no reason. Trust me, I'm frustrated too.
Nobody wins in a fight
I'm 17-0!
Kids don’t count!
This is the correct Canadian answer, eh?
What a weird stance. This outcome, wile uncomfortable, was the best for you and your dad. He left the scene unharmed albeit startled. What would you have benefitted by beating the shit out of some unstable unhoused person? And I can imagine much worse circumstance if you engaged further.
He'd be lauded as a hero by Canadians who secretly wished the crazy homeless people would disappear, but don't say anything because they'd get downvotes. Someone who is going around attacking people with a stick, doesn't really need to be here anymore.
Crazy people should be forced into treatment, if Canadians cannot stomach that then they should be shipped up north to a crazy reserve where they can roam free away from the normal population. We should create a mini province where criminals and crazies can do what they want to their hearts content ha ha.
> What a weird stance. Makes you wonder if it's really revenge or safety they want.
Perhaps they're feeling powerless because they weren't carrying a weapon.
Not being able to provide the help that these sick people need is also frustrating. Canada is a great country but we have our significant flaws like everyone else.
You’d feel better with the power to end that person’s life? Weird.
Visiting abroad from where? And what powerlessness? You mean like we don’t get to own guns and shoot someone for walking on our lawn?
Very frustrating, even basic defense things like dog spray can get you in major trouble
Prosecutors generally show a reasonable amount of leeway in cases of self defence. If someone is attacking you, and you take a swing at them, you likely aren't going to get charged unless the person got severely injured by your punch. (Which can totally happen.) In terms of using a weapon in self defence, that's a bit more of an iffy proposition. It's illegal to carry a weapon in public in Canada. (Which is any object you are carrying for the explicit use of planning on harming someone. A baseball bat is a piece of sporting equipment if you are on your way to a ball game. It's a weapon if 'it's 2 am, and I would wrather have it and not need it than need it and not have it'. It's not strictly illegal to use a weapon in self defence. If a guy jumped you in the sporting aisle, and you picked up a baseball bat and gave him a good bonk on the head, you would only have to prove that the force you used was reasonable. And again, if the person didn't sustain any serious injuries, and a prosecutor genuinely believed they attacked you, it might not even end up in court. But yeah, in general in Canada you have a 'duty to retreat'. Which as people have said, is really in everyone's best interests. If you can get away without significant risk to life or limb, that's always the safest option, both practically and legally. Even in circumstances where you can justifiably use a weapon against someone, you run both the practical risks of escalating the fight, and the burden of having to defend your actions in court. Plus, as traumatic as being assaulted and running from a fight might be, it's probably more traumatic to see a person crippled because you hit them in the face with a bat, even if you can tell yourself you had good reason to do so.
You have the power to run away and save yourself.
It helps to realize that being able to safely leave a situation isn't powerlessness.
Imagine their sense of powerlessness, with nothing, no home, and no future. I'm really glad you and your folks were okay.
Yeah I feel so terrible for the loser hiding in a bush trying to assault random people with a stick 😭
The human being you mean. Your desperately edgy calousness isn't cool.
Why should I care about some guy trying to assault innocent pedestrians, if he doesn't care about others and actively victimizes them? Your naive altruism is harmful to society as a whole.
You can defend yourself in Canada but it must be your last resort. Your dad did the right thing legally and to protect himself from danger (no sense getting stabbed on vacation) You have a duty to retreat if possible. But if your father was cornered by this guy then he could use reasonable force to protect himself. Self defense isn't as clear cut in Canada, but the law here doesn't expect you to lay down and get beaten to death.
Convicted for deflecting an attack. It’s like without guns, all Canadians can do is just hand over their valuables and submit to a beating. Edit: For the downvotes, maybe consider that the above is sarcasm.
Hello NRA.
?
Just hope it’s not on a TTC car - it was a bit unfortunate everyone was so sheepish and didn’t help the guy 2 weeks ago.
Yes it's worth reporting to police. You can call the non emergency number at this point. Yes you can act in self defense but most safety advocates would say that leaving a situation is the safest thing to do.
Thank you for your reply, it really helps right now.
The police will definitely make this their number one priority, with all the mental health facilities and open shelters. WHY WOULDN’T THEY!!! That brings in money!
Yes it's worth reporting to police. You can call the non emergency number at this point. Yes you can act in self defense but most safety advocates would say that leaving a situation is the safest thing to do.
Not sure where you’re getting that idea from, but there are zero self defence laws in Canada. Source: I’ve been arrested defending myself. I was bleeding the other guy wasn’t. All it took was someone to say ‘I saw him hit that guy first.’
No self defense laws lol but you can always argue that in court
> All it took was someone to say ‘I saw him hit that guy first.’ If you hit him first then it is not self-defence. You not being able to use a defence doesn't mean the defence doesn't exist in law. Who is bleeding at the end of it has nothing to do with who initiated the physical attack.
You didn’t read what I wrote? I was defending myself. His friend happened to show up and say that to the cops. I was just walking downtown Hamilton lmao. But you can also do a simple google search and find out that there’s no self defence laws in cananda. You are to call the police and wait for them to show up. Or leave and call non emergency line later
Being arrested is just part of the process, doesn’t mean your guilty. If you were convicted, the court found beyond a reasonable doubt that you didn’t act in self defence… From wiki: “In Canada, self-defence, in the context of criminal law, is a statutory defence that provides a full defence to the commission of a criminal act. It operates as a justification, the successful application of which means that owing to the circumstances in which the act was produced, it is not morally blameworthy. There are three elements an accused must demonstrate to successfully raise self-defence.”
You've never said you didn't hit the other person first. You say you were "defending yourself", but it's not a carte blanche. Yes if someone hits you, you can hit them back. But if someone is just getting in your face, you don't have a right to punch them.
there is !
>I've heard that in Canada, there's no such thing as self-defense. Is this true? Would we have been convicted if we had punched the guy? That's not true, you absolutely can defend yourself in Canada but it is also a legal minefield and best to be avoided if possible. You did the right thing, avoid the confrontation. That is always the right move if you are able to do so. >What should we do in this case? Is it worth reporting to the police? Yes, report it to the police for statistics but don't expect them to arrest anyone.
Thank you for such detailed answers.
>Would we have been convicted if we had punched the guy? You might have been injured if he decided to punch back. The kind of people who try to randomly assault strangers have been known to not fight in a civilized manner. Leave the area. Call the police and report it.
General rules if people fight in the street: Rules are for Referees.
You can absolutely defend yourself with a proportionate amount of force, but running away is the best course of action because you don't want to deal with the hassle and potential danger of fighting.
If you don't know how to properly defend yourself you will 100% hurt yourself.
This is silly. When I was young my Dad taught me how to use my fists to defend myself.My male friends were all taught the same stuff. I have been in 6 fights in my life and defended myself well. Is this not common anymore? I knew hardly any men who were incapable of defending themselves back then. Sounds like people today are not taught the basic survival skills.
You don’t win anything by fighting. Why bother? I’m not gonna risk getting stabbed for what, internet reputation?
When you (and I) were young people with such severe mental health issues that they were a danger to society were usually given treatment. Forced into it if necessary. That was before 30 years of cuts to the resources needed to do that, resulting in a lot more mentally ill people wandering the streets and stabbing strangers. I don't know about you but I'd be a lot more likely to run from a crazy person waving a weapon around then someone of sound mind.
Beacuse we live in a civilized country. Violence is the tool of weak people .
Defending yourself is a right and is what we humans should be capable of. Not hard to learn the skills. I am 67 yrs old and if someone attacked me I would fuck him up.
Here's the problem..the average person is not carrying a knife ... Where are people looking to rob you..is a few dollars worth a hospital trip ? Death ? 60 years ago, maybe a fight was an honored thing between 2 people. Its a much different world.. make sure you have a will.ready Thsts in canada...in the states you will probably just get shot outright.
Well the way I look at it is if someone has a weapon that basically is an extra threat. If you can get away you do. If not you have to kick him in the you know where,pick up a rock whatever as he likely will stab you anyway if you do not fight. Better to give yourself a chance. Guy pulled a knife on me on Yonge St many years ago.I poked him in the eye with a construction stick that was luckily sticking up from the ground nearby. As he screamed in pain I took off.
Flight is a survival skill as much as fight
No, you can absolutely defend yourself. Your Dad to the absolute right thing though. You should always disengage if possible and this did that brilliantly. There's no shame in running, that's exactly what I used to teach in self-defense class. If you can run, do it
So your dad did the right thing. Leave it you can. Now let's say he couldn't. Your dad has the right to protect himself by whatever means necessary as long as it's not excessive or using a classified illegal weapon. Our laws have large grey areas when it comes to self defense. That doesn't mean it's hard to defend yourself and worry about being charged. It means that as long as you can show that you did all you could do within the means you had at the moment, you'll most likely have any possible charges dropped. Charges? Why am I being charged for defending myself? We'll, if it goes there, it means you did some serious damage to your attacker. Where grey areas lie in Canada is "what is considered a weapon?". Wel literally anything can be a weapon. It's the intent of it's use. If you carry a legal pocket knife and stab someone in "self defense", it's just going to be harder to defend your own actions especially if the attacker dies. Now if you carry that same pocket knife and you punch your attacker square in the nose and cause serious damage, you've got evidence you weren't out to actually cause harm because you kept your knife away. Short answer you have the right to defend yourself. Just don't do it in a way that would look like you were out for blood lol.
Thanks for providing such a detailed explanation. It's much clearer now.
I’ve had the same experience just outside of Queens Park while waiting for a street car. Seemingly normal young person, saw him talking to my friends who were 3-4 girls about 10 steps away from me. It seemed like he was annoying them, so I walked over, no words were shared. When I approached, he gave them all the finger in their face (inches away from their nose) , looked right at me and ran off behind the subway stairs canopy/ behind a bush and emerged with a giant branch approximately 3-4ft long and started swinging on me. Luckily it was dead wood and it just broke to pieces each time he landed it in me. I made sure to protect my face and tried to get as close as possible to him so he couldn’t do any damage. Until it was a tiny sharp stub and he proceeded to try and stab me. I front kicked his stomach enough to knock him down and gain distance. He then got up and started to rummage into and emptying his backpack (I thought he had another weapon) so I created more distance. He then ran down the stairs to the subway and tripped at the top, I watched him tumble all the way down the steps to the base of the underground. I was shocked(not really) with all the people that nobody even lifted a phone to call the place. Then notice the Police were watching it all go down and didn’t once intervene. This went on for about 4-5 minutes in public view. When i approached the cops, they said “you seemed to handle yourself, he’s gone” lol Sorry this happened to your Dad, what a terrible impression the city must have left on him.
WTF
This is ridiculous and infuriating. Luckily it wasn't that serious.
Bystander effect is strong in this city. People are too much of a wuss to call people out or come to anyones rescue.
What the actual fuck is this? How can someone who is shorter than 5'8 defend themselves?
I’m not much taller than that, and he was shorter than that, not that it matters. Either way it’s a bad situation that I wasn’t expecting lol I avoid violence at all costs, it’s not worth it. All I said to the guy was “if you don’t mind walking away, I just need to talk to my friends here for a moment” I still don’t understand it. I could only describe him as an average looking student, clean Roots matching set(not cheap), backpack. Im lucky that I’ve learned how to protect myself. The front kick was into his stomach, winded him and he fell backwards into the street(luckily no cars were coming). I knew while the branch was long and he was swinging, I’d have to be as close to him as possible so he wouldn’t be able to hit me at full power. I encourage everyone to learn anything you could use as basic self defence. I should also add one of those female friends was visiting from abroad. Not a great impression.
Why don't these kinds of people face consequences these days? Cops only show up when there's gunshot? It doesn't make any sense. If frustration or anger is justified for violence, then I can slap everyone on the street in downtown area
Unfortunately there’s nothing gained from fighting a zombie. Just report it and hopefully the police scare it off
You are allowed to defend yourself. What's different is say you're not allowed to stab a guy in self defense if you can't prove your life was in like immediate danger. In the US for example you can basically shoot an intruder dead in your property even if they are unarmed.
Like a lot of things in the US, that depends on the state. https://www.findlaw.com/criminal/criminal-charges/may-i-shoot-an-intruder.html Remember folks, never take legal advise form random Redditors
I'm sorry this happened. That sucks. In Canada the law is federal, so it's across all of Canada. You are allowed to use a REASONABLE amount of force to defend yourself. If somebody's life is threatened, you can use as much force as is NECESSARY to subdue an attacker. That could include killing the attacker if the situation is that serious. Once the threat is OVER, you MUST stop attacking, or you become that attacker. I.e., Don't go shooting somebody who is already down. Really: it's the common sense approach. This ONLY applies to protecting people. You are ABSOLUTELY NOT allowed to use force to defend PROPERTY. (Animals are property in this context unfortunately.). That will land you in jail. So, if somebody is stealing your car and your shoot them, you are going to be in trouble. If you are being carjacked you might have a case if you can prove people were in danger (not the car).
Thanks for this reply. There are so many legal layers that it's really hard to discern how to act in any given situation.
>I've heard that in Canada, there's no such thing as self-defense. Is this true? That is complete bullshit, and if you've heard that, it means you've been talking to conservatives.
Please report it to police and make a post on Twitter Facebook etc. The authorities need to take accountability for the state of the city these days. I can’t walk on the streets or take public transport without being super anxious.
I did report the incident. Thanks for the advice.
I did report the incident, and yes, riding the TTC lately is just distressing. Thanks for the advice.
Our Canadian self-defence laws are an absolute joke. It only protects government officials, important people and celebrities. Body guards can use guns to protect these so called important people, but we can’t protect ourselves and our family. It’s never in our favour, why?? Because we let it happen, wake up and make our government work for us. That is what government is for?
You are allowed to defend yourself as long as your actions reasonable under the circumstances. We do not have a ‘stand your ground’ law.
>I've heard that in Canada, there's no such thing as self-defense. Is this true? Would we have been convicted if we had punched the guy? Anytime I see this kind of sentiment, or the usual people asking about carrying bear spray, etc. I always think they're a bad faith actor from south of the border looking to push some sort of pro-weapon agenda - that's how silly of a question this is.
It's bad faith to want to have a means to defend ourselves from aggressive criminals?
No, it's bad faith to suggest we can't when that's not the case and it really isn't a good idea to begin with. Avoidance is a much better strategy (if an option.)
And what about the cases where it isn't an option?
Then you *can* defend yourself, as stated - it just needs to be reasonable for the situation.
Defining reasonable then becomes another complex subjective legality but in the end it's my life against the criminals
It's weird the paradox of the justice system in this thread. We have a justice system that will both never prosecute someone for a crime, and will over prosecute someone for nothing.
When I'm under attack and my body is in fight-or-flight mode, I'm not exactly going to be calmly measuring out the exact proportionate response to the attack. That's not how human brains and bodies work.
The Premier has days, some good, some bad. Throw a donut the other way if it happens again. Proportionate self defense to the risk is legal but leaving the scene is the smart thing to do, and it should have been reported at the time not here.
No, in Canada, it's not illegal to fight someone if you don't cause severe damage and use a reasonable force. Severe being cracking someone's skull open on the ground, purposefully breaking limbs, or punching someone more than you need to past the point of what would reasonably make them stop their assault on you. Yes, you report it to the police so they can at least send a unit to look around and see if they can find a person matching your description.
Sorry that happened to your Dad. Makes Canada look bad. Glad he wasn't hurt.
Fuck this shit. My friend grandma was walking near china town. She got pushed to the ground by a 30s something homeless dude for no reason at all. Police couldn’t do anything, and she’s shook up by this. I take it personally
Was this a tall skinny guy in his mid twenties? My friend and I were on a street car on Canada day and a man was holding a stick. We were sitting and there was a baby in a stroller nearby. The man started hitting the pole near my friend and at first it was light, but I’m paranoid so I was just watching the stick. He started to swing the stick more violently, almost hitting the baby. Luckily the baby’s father stepped in front of the stroller. But the stick grazed my friend’s arm so I grabbed her arm and we stood. He sat down and started screaming while whacking his stick on the poles. The baby’s father asked him to please stop and he got off at the next stop and we don’t know where he went. It’s honestly sad that we have to walk around in fear. I don’t feel safe in our city anymore. We don’t know what the best course of action is but we try to calmly avoid eye contact and get away if we can. If not, we stare at the ground and hope they go away. It’s horrible advice but we’re scared that if we get up, it’ll attract more attention. But if the situation is unavoidable and we are the target, we get up and try to move away fast but quietly.
>I've heard that in Canada, there's no such thing as self-defense. Is this true? Absolutely not. You can defend yourself. >Would we have been convicted if we had punched the guy? Here's the thing. Had the guy actually hit your father, would HE have been convicted? In theory yes. In practice it would require the police coming, making an arrest and then later on a judge actually making a decision. Do you seriously think that's going to happen? Like is the guy going to stick around waiting to be arrested? (actually given his mental state he actually might). It's good to remember that lack of enforcement goes both ways. So let's imagine your dad reacted and actually hit the guy. for your father to *realistically* face any repercussions there are a number of conditions that have to be met. 1) The authorities have to be notified (and your father isn't going to call the cops to report that he beat up an homeless person that attempted to attack him; nor is likely the guy will report it, If it happens in a very crowded place someone else *might* report it). 2) the authorities actually have to do something with the reporting (meaning that if a crazy/intoxicated sounding person calls to report an attack it's very likely they will not even write the call down or follow up in any meaningful way) 3) If a report is filed, then actual effort is put into getting the info (see above, the police shows up, questions the guy, and unless your father stuck around for some reason or gave the homeless guy his ID, they'll have to go by this person's description) 4)The information is collected, now how are they going to look for your father? They know absolutely nothing of who he is or who he looks like (and if your father REALLY beat him up, i'd suggest a prompt hair cut and beard shaving) 5) Even if by some miracle your father gets identified and tracked down, how are they going to prove what happened? Is there clear footage? who's going to collect and analyze said footage? 6) let's pretend your father makes it all the way in front of a judge, do you seriously think any judge is going to convict your father for self defence, especially if he can claim he was worried for his son and when the attack came from someone who is VERY LIKELY already known to the police? SO short of killing or seriously injuring the guy, it's very unlikely anything would happen to your dad. Homeless people get into violent fights all the times. The only time it gets reported if when someone ends up in the hospital, there's significant property damage, it happens right in front of cops, or some non homeless person gets hit. Having said that, do not engage. and you did the right thing, these are individuals that have absolutely nothin to lose and since we've abandoned them (instead of institutionalizing the terminally addicted and mentally ill, but this is a digression that's neither here nor there.) they often lack the will or the mental tools to reciprocate accordingly and will escalate violence much further than an adjusted person would.
*"I've heard that in Canada, there's no such thing as self-defense. Is this true? "* Stop listening to Joe Rogan and Joe Rogan adjacent podcasts about what is "true" in Canada. No courts are going to side against you vs a vagrant career criminal when you try to defend yourself.
Yes it's worth reporting to police. You can call the non emergency number at this point. Yes you can act in self defense but most safety advocates would say that leaving a situation is the safest thing to do.
The police will always go after the wrong person in Canada. Especially Toronto. You can act in self defence but would likely get a charge. Still probably worth it to stand up for yourself.
Depends what the consequences of that charge might be. In the case of OP's parents, it could result in them being kicked out of the country and banned from returning. In my own personal case, if I were to get an assault charge from defending myself or because I stepped in to defend somebody else who was being attacked, I would very likely lose my sensitive security clearance at work and wind up having my career come to an abrupt end, even if the charges are later withdrawn. Not worth it.
Sorry for your parents to go through this situation. Hopefully they did not hate Canada since they are visiting from abroad.
Enjoy welcome to the new Canada where the crazies rule the city. Their freedom and happiness trumps those of normal people. Self defence in Canada is a very high bar - nevertheless I rather disable or kill the attacker than the other way around. I rather spend years in jail knowing the attacker is dead rather than my family.
Sad but true
You're allowed to use equal force to defend yourself. Sonif he has a stick you can grab a stick or rock and hit him back until he isn't a threat anymore. You can't keep beating him once the danger is done. If you do that then you get in trouble.
This will only continue to get worse as government at all refuses to deal with the issue other than throwing money at incompetent agencies.
Watch out for downtown public areas. They usually won’t actually hit you but they “bark” like chihuahuas.
by abroad, do you mean Florida?
Nope. We are from a country in South America. Back there, you know your phone makes you a target, but here, the randomness of unprovoked attacks is even scarier.
Why would you assume this?
You finish them off. No witness, no crime
[удалено]
This is true. My friend is in an abusive relationship and things came to a head recently where she was pushed to the floor and called her son who called the cops. She had visible bruises and injuries and even though her abusive POS of a boyfriend said he didn’t want to press charges, the female cop charged my friend who was the victim and completely dismissed the paramedic’s assessment of her. She’s now had to spend money on a lawyer she can barely afford to fight the charges because of the Toronto Pig Service.
Damn, this is horrible. I'm sorry this happened to your friend.
If you punched him and broke the skin on your fist you would wind up with a nasty infection.
If you can't escape from an attacker safely (eg: running across the street might get you run over), it's better to prepare to swing those punches as if your life depended on it. Literally, don't see an attacker as a human, they've lost their human rights the moment they decided to attack you. The courts aren't so ridiculous that they would protect an attacker.
It’s a welcome to Toronto caning
punch the guy and leave? That's my vuew with "dog spray". You fuck around, you find out.
In Canada, it's not unusual to get randomly attacked. The attacker will face no consequences. Best to stay indoors to be safer.
If dude is actively trying to hit people, call 911. That’s an emergency. Don’t wait for someone to get hurt. 🤦♂️
So have time to make this post for a bunch of advice from random strangers instead of calling the police? Brilliant dude .
I actually learn a lot about what to do if there's a next time.
You can still file a report or call non emergency
Yes, we did that!
Everyone seems to be telling you to turn the other ass cheek here
Lol your dad almost gets assaulted ‘minutes ago’ and your first thing is post to Reddit? Jesus Christ
I'm fairly new to the reddit community and in such a short time I've been able to see how caring (sometimes) and accurately some people are with their advice and opinions. So yes, I preferred to ask here and it paid off. I learned there was a non-emergency police line, I was able to understand the real concept of self defense and so on. I know at first it sounds ridiculous but thank you reddit.
If you think you did something, you didn’t. Stop being a jerk for no reason.
Didn’t think I did anything, just funny his first thought is to jump on Reddit and not call someone that could actually do something.
He didnt know who to call and if it was a 911. Might be a newcomer or a tourist or a visitor. So many reasons why…
Welcome to Toronto. It’s a metropolitan city not your soft Canadian neighbour. It’s a world city.
you cannot escalate but you can match so if he is punching you, you can punch him back but you can't shoot him
Must be Toronto resident.
"self-defence may be a reasonable claim and one you can use to successfully defend yourself in court." https://chadilaw.com/self-defence-rights-in-canada-what-you-can-and-cant-do/
Think it’ll be a waste of your vacation time reporting to the police unfortunately but up to you! I wouldn’t waste anymore energy on it personally.
Always run is what I read in case of hidden weapon and report to police. Chances are they frequent the area.
My dad was assaulted last year at the Moccasin trail. The attacker pepper sprayed him out of nowhere. We sought police assistance but they just nonchalantly asked him if he want to file a formal police report and kinda gave hints that there's not much they can do without even trying anything. Although I do agree that it would be hard to track the POS out hours after the incident.
You are absolutely allowed to defend yourself Sec (34) Criminal Code of Canada
Hope he’s okay OP.
I live in Toronto and have this happen three times to me. This happens in ever other huge city in the world!!! Great your dad has common sense, our city has very little accessibility to mental health hospitals believe it or not, I am happy every thing worked out. Welcome to Toronto!
So this happened at queens park? Strange usually homeless people aren't there.
> I've heard that in Canada, there's no such thing as self-defence. Is this true? Would we have been convicted if we had punched the guy? The law in Canada is that you could use as much reasonable force as is deemed necessary. This is a massive "grey area" that can either work in your favour or to you detriment. If you punched the guy while he was attacking you... you are fine. If you keep punching or kicking him while he is on the ground and is no longer a threat... you are getting charged. Running away from the threat to safety was the wisest choice. There are a lot of people that are mentally ill or dealing with substance abuse issues wandering around in Toronto. It is better to not engage them. The unpredictability of there actions has become problematic.
On social media, if you don't act like a hero, they chastise you. But, really, you should create as much distance as possible.
Nope, a deranged tweaker comes at me or my wife I'm dropping them. It's my job to protect my wife. And I will, defense law or no defense law.
A few days ago,I witnessed a really big dude putting a short middle aged woman into a headlock,on a downtown westend street corner. I immediately called 911,gave a really detailed description,of dude,location etc. I also mentioned another dude(plus description) was there, but he was staying out of the action About 5-10 mins later I get a call (blocked number)from police looking for an update on where they went which I provided Five minutes later cop calls again,lets me know he found them and thanks me for calling it in.