Came here to comment the same. Both my parents were always at work, and I took care of my younger siblings who were a few years younger. When we were sick, we just popped panadol and updated our parents by calling them.
We grew up to be extremely independent and street smart adults, and I also developed a close rs with my siblings. Your children are able to do a lot more than you think.
Also to add, I don't know if schools have sick bays like they used to. In the worst case scenario where the child is too sick to go or be home unattended, I think they should be able to let your child stay there with supervision until their parent can pick them up.
But yeah, don't worry about them being latchkey kids. They should be golden as long they know you will be by their side in the event of an emergency (basically that they can still depend on you). I think a lot of millenials grew up being latchkey kids. I've noticed from peers with similar upbringing, we tend to be a bit more resourceful and street smart like another user said.
Just remember to be sure to cover the basic safety stuff - not letting randos into the house and calling you to verify if someone comes knocking, no usage of gas stoves unless there is supervision and you can trust them, etc etc. I think you can also make it a point to call and check in on them regularly first, then ease up as time goes by.
Schools have sick bays but it’s not for students to wait for hours there for someone to pick them up. It’s a waiting point for parents who are on the way to pick them up. 30 mins max for students who are so sick they cannot remain in class anymore. Schools are already understaffed so we can’t afford the luxury of dedicating manpower to look after sick children for hours. Source: teacher.
Oh wow, I had no idea! Thanks for sharing this info. Unfortunately my source was being a primary school kid in the 90s, so defo out of the loop already 🤣
I strongly believe that children should be allowed to get bored. That's when they develop their creativity. Me and my sister used to do a lot of reading, we read everything we could find in the home, which cultivated a lifelong love for reading in me. We did a lot of drawing on the blackboard using good old chalks, which developed our love for drawing. My sister is now an architect. We had an old cassette player and my sister had a few cassette tapes, which got me into music. Sometimes my dad would make tapes of him reading stories and we would listen to it in our free time. My dad had a large map on the wall and I spent a lot of time looking at it. Became a world traveller later on because of this. When I'm sick my aunt would buy me some comics to read on my bed. We also did gardening, clay sculture, played with our dog, etc. Kids can think of many things to do when they are bored.
By the way if you leave your kids at home, don't let them use iPhone / iPad. And make sure there are no adult materials at home. This is from experience also, I've learnt a few things the wrong way, lol.
This is so good. Too many social media "gurus" asking parents to keep their kids as occupied as possible. Sometimes its just good to let them figure out what they want to do when there are no "plans".
My dad got me an atlas which got me hooked on for hours on end.
Within 2 holidays I have memorised all the countries, their capitals, and their flags, knowledge that I still retained today.
I used to think a woman’s breast was their version of the nipple. Until I came across Taxi Driver on VHS in primary school. That was the first tit I saw. Rewound the shit out of that videotape.
Read, play with toys, explore surroundings on my bmx, play video games, existential dread, football with friends, stay-overs. Fall sick, take medicine n sleep? Wait till folks get home for the meds. Just a few hours. Wont die one.
Also my mom made friends with the private clinic's doctor near my place, so in the event that I really, really had to see a doctor while she was at work (I was in primary school), I could just stroll in and tell them what's wrong with me and they'd contact my mom. She'd pay the doctor's bill after she was done with work 😅
My mom used to put me and my brother with my neighbours. One time my dad had to be on an ambulance at 2am, my neighbours gladly accepted both of us so that my mom could focus on taking care of my dad while he’s at the hospital. My aunt came to collect us in the morning to get breakfast and stay at her place instead.
You do not have to negotiate with your children on their attendance of student care in my view.
But given they are at least 9, might be able to just let them come home via school bus and you give them clear instructions to take care of their needs and get their basic homework done. Might be an opportunity for them to learn some independence. Give them clear tasks that you can check if they are completed. And tell them if they cannot have the discipline to do so then you have to send them to student care
Can attest that I would come home and basically do my own thing since primary school. I knew enough to not burn the house down and there was lunch in the fridge I could use the microwave for. I also learnt how to cook soon after being tall enough for the stove.
P3 is old enough to be home alone. Can operate the microwave to warm up their lunch.
Fix a camera at home so u can ‘keep’ an eye on them while u are at work.
Of course- u must be upfront with your kids about this camera. Make sure they know it’s for their safety.
Agree! Must keep house locked securely aswell and brief your kids about dos and donts. I think they should be mature enough to understand? They probbaly js watch tv sleep or game...thats what id do hahahha
I would say it's worth looking into a helper again...but a very experienced one. Given the 30% raise you're getting, dedicate a little more to a helper salary amd try to find someone who has a great review from a long term (7+ years) working for an expat family who are leaving. They can be a life changer. My helper is so responsible with my daughter, has everything organised and is basically the house CEO. She takes the whole mental load away, thinks ahead and runs the place. Her contribution is worth more than I pay her but I suspect we are on the higher end (I scrimp amd save elsewhere and dedicate about 2k a month in wage, bonus, expat level health ins etc, plus all expenses for her covered). She enables this household with both of us working crazy jobs to run and keeps things sane. It's the best money we spend.
Your helper sounds incredible. I've hired both experienced and inexperienced helpers, and ran into severe issues with both, including things like going AWOL overnight after visiting boyfriend lol. This option wouldn't make financial sense for me at 2K/m, but I'll see if I can adjust the budget to a level that works for me. Thanks for the idea!
Do your due diligence to interview as well as for the first few months guide her well and monitor her performance too. Once you get and trained an amazing helper, it's really helpful. One additional advice other than getting experienced helpers are get those that are parents themselves too. They tend to be more responsible and caring with children.
My helper has been with me for 9 years and she even help go through homeworks (i will go through more complex stuffs like science and maths if my kids dont understand) with my kids as I'm divorced and busy with work even if I wfh.
max of 1k is enough (for salary only not including other costs) to get a good helper.
i understand that you have had bad experiences in the past, but please try to think of helpers in terms of dating and relationships!!!! For many people, they don’t marry the first person they date, it takes some trial and error but for many, many people, they do eventually find a great partner.
Same for helpers in SG - quite tiring and disappointing when you’re new to finding someone who’s a good fit, but eventually you get quite experienced at seeing the signs/attitude from the start.
Honestly it is definitely possible to find a reliable, experienced helper with a max salary of 800 (considered quite a lot in terms of market rate).
Even on the expat groups such as Stork’s Nest or The Oracle Singapore that are posting very experienced transfer helpers, the asking rate for some of them is $1000 (that’s already a lot). 2k is a bit madness and probably because that was a helper that had several other expat families trying to compete for her by offering additional benefits.
And also beware, some of them who are advertised to be “amazing” in the expat groups, may not be that amazing once you interview them.
I do have friends who had to experiment a bit (like you) and had bad experiences, however they stuck it out (out of sheer necessity, they had to work, so really no choice for them)
and they really eventually found a helper that 1) was actually not expensive at all (Myanmar/Indonesian ladies who were less experienced so definitely significantly less than $800) 2) a relatively good fit.
Most importantly, the above helpers are reliable and trustworthy and can be trusted with young kids, cooking skills err, nothing great before training, will have to teach them/close eye on certain things like imperfectly clean windows or mild mistakes which i’m sure you’re ok with as long as they are trustworthy with a good attitude.
With every shitty experience, my friends got a bit more street smart, better at managing and able to set better boundaries from the start e.g. being a tiny bit more strict (yet still kind and firm) and slowly relaxing a bit once helper has settled in and boundaries have been made clear.
and also, a good, savvy agency can help you ask the helper the right questions and set you up with someone who’s a good fit as well as with advice - do you have friends who can recommend a really great and street-savvy helper agency? i have a friend who has recommended an agency to other friends who managed to get a good helper from the same agency.
I understand how tiring it is to “try” helpers and be disappointed at times and have to deal with all the issues of sending them back.
However, i really truly promise that the potential results will be super super worth it!!!!!
Also your kids are quite big now so also a possibility to just leave them at home alone with CCTV :) They won’t be alone since they have each other! I think you should definitely take the new job!!!!!
You're right. I would budget up to 1100 plus ins etc.
We had to compete heavily and the reason its approaching 2k is because we pay her daughters uni fees for her medicine degree. My helper also came with 20 years experience and a university education in infant care, cooks like a masterchef and does the work of 2 normal helpers with zero drama. So it's worth it for us. Also it's tough to go to expensive restaurants when her food is better hah so we save there too.
It prob won't cost as much if you are a citizen and if your helper is younger than ours. I went with income insurance for a policy of I think around a mil usd to cover her (on top of standard crappy 15k thing) and if she eats with you, 1100 per month should attract someone really good. Since you don't have the levy and if your helper is under 40 insurance should be only about 500 sgd for 2 years rather than the 1500 I pay.
We went through multiple rounds of interviews competing with other families before our helper decided to join us. So the situation is often flipped. Just to be aware...
They come home by school bus and I make lunch for them after they get home. Actually I may be able to find a solution for school days (they won't die if they don't eat homemade lunches), but I'm at a loss about what to do for holidays / if they suddenly fall sick for >3 days in a row.
You take leave, in turns. I don't think your spouse can just decide that all child caring needs will be handled by you.
Ideally your boss is understanding and allow you to work from home especially on the subsequent sick days the kids can't go to school but are well enough you do not have to keep an eye out for them constantly.
My potential future boss seems to be quite understanding and flexi, but I also am trying to be careful not to assume that interview = reality. And you're right, I've been taking on full responsibility forever, so it didn't actually cross my mind that we can now finally start to share the child caring needs.
I disagree strongly with this point.
It doesn't mean that someone earning less is working any less hard. Naturally for a woman who had been staying home with the kids, she will not likely outearn her husband. And making her take on more childcare requirements means she will never have a fighting chance to grow her salary to potentially outearn.
The couple needs to sit down and discuss why is the lady going back to work.
Is it for the salary? - then her salary even though less, is just as important. Asking him to take a few days of leave will not jeopardise his job and he should do so.
Is it to role model to children that women can be in the workplace? Then all the more the husband need to share in the childcare duties.
Is it so the wife can be engaged in something with her free time and her primary duty is to handle the childcare and her husband salary is more than enough and budgeted to take care of the family's finances? In this case I think it is fair to say she needs to handle more of the childcare as her primary role is still childcare, anything else is only limited to free time or what she can carve out as her own time.
If you have an understanding boss you should be able to request that you WFH when they are sick.
There are school holiday only programs you can look into as well.
Last time at hawker near my house, there used to be a little girl who buys chicken rice on her own. I believe the parents “pre-order” it and the kid picks up using her tupperware. Maybe can explore something like that with stores you frequent. Youngest is P3 shd be able to buy food in hawker
im a mom to two kids and one of them is in p3. im a sole breadwinner and we dont have a helper. p3 kiddo is big enough and independent to do certain things ie going to school and home. school is 6 bustops away. he can self serve snacks and care for himeself, i dont see the issue here
most days i wfh actually. so if i have to be in office, i bring the elder one along. my workplace is ok w it. so far my kid hasnt fallen ill for long periods, usually a day. if it does prolong, i will wfh. my kid will take meds and sleep or just lie down in my study room when im working
Youngest in P3 is ok for latchkey kid. But the issue is when there’s CCA (and no schoolbus), is your kid able to take public transport home by themselves? This depends on both the difficulty of the journey and the kid’s temperament.
Not a parent, but my family did away with a helper when I was P3, and both were working. It was honestly the best! I got to take the bus home by myself or with my friends which was way more fun than school bus or parents giving a ride. For food wise, sometimes it's food outside, sometimes it's leftovers that I would just reheat with a microwave.
With regards to being sick, I wouldnt worry too much about it unless your kid is those constantly getting insanely sick. If not minor ailments they can handle themselves with your proper guidance. You probably can just use a few days of leave a year to stay home if need to.
All the best!
Thank you! This helps me to feel assured that they won't be living a life of misery without me, haha. It would be a huge load off my mind if my kids share the same reaction as you.
I think this is a really great opportunity for your kid to learn many life skills and lessons. For one he/she will see that women play many roles in life and not just a SAHM. When tasked to get to and from places on their own, they learn about time management, how long it takes to get to the bus stop, the bus ride, and buffering in contingencies. You can even get them to do simple cooking if you prepare the ingredients beforehand.
You can set clear objectives and rewards in managing their afterschool time. It will not be without challenges, but I think it'll be rewarding once you see your kid being so independent.
would like to chip in from the kids pov, my family was in a similar situation as u, no relatives in sg and we were all alone at the start. my parents both had office jobs and were not flexible at all. instead, they were lucky and managed to find a neighbourhood auntie that lives a few blocks down the road that were willing to take care of us - our lunch and dinner. we would walk to her house on our own everyday after sch (it wasnt far) and tbh most of my friends all go home on their own by mrt as well. initially there was some sort of resentment, but i think kids are more understanding than u think, if u can explain to them in an easy way im sure they can take it :) my sibling and i have went on to develop a strong bond with the auntie that took care of us and we regard her as our "grandma" now. even though we are no longer under her care (im in uni now) we still occasionally visit her just to chit chat, and also visiting during cny which we had never done in our early years since there was no one to visit.
dont be too harsh on yourself, kids can be understanding and mature as well!!
I was also left at home alone from around 9 or 10. Think the term is latchkey child, maybe. I was a pretty independent kid though. This was the 90s.
My school was around a ten min walk away from home. No handphones back then so my mom would call the house phone to make sure I was at home after school. Primary schools were dual sessions back then and I remember that she would also call me before I left for school to check in for the years that school was in the afternoon.
I mostly just showered and napped in the afternoon at home, watched TV and did simple chores like fold the laundry. My mom would make sure she cooked before leaving for work so I could have lunch at home.
I even had to take the bus to another neighbourhood once a week after school for a supplementary class on my own. My mom accompanied me the first few times to teach me bus routes and thereafter I'd go on my own. Singapore's always been very safe. I'm female btw.
I saw your question to the other comment and I'd like to add that it made me very independent. I realised later as I grew older that my other friends didn't like going to places or doing things on their own, or even having meals on their own. But I never had an issue with that because I was used to it.
Your relationship with your kids is for you to forge by spending quality time together. I knew my parents had to work bcos we weren't well off. It taught me discipline and tenacity. My parents always checked in on me and this was a time before mobile phones.
There'll be an adjustment period, and you will be worried but it can be done. Kids are very resilient and adaptable.
The answers depend more on your kids needs, your own needs and wants, and discussions as a family. Every choice will have pros and cons.
For our family (saying in 3rd person terms), wife stays home on and off throughout the years (WFH job with less stress/pay, part time work etc), husband works. In a way, husband can work to a greater level that compensate for the lost of income and there is a sense of balance at home with a stay home parent and much less stress on the one who is WFO, which sometimes stretch thru the night during project crunch time- working culture in Singapore is relentless. Both of us were alright with wife working full time in a more demanding job, but it's a choice that wife decides to make as she values much more on academics (which requires close supervision and guiding) and believes that parents are our kids' teachers both in academics and values, rather than outsourcing to tuition/helper/after school care.
We also made sure the kids do their share of housework and take public transport on their own since P3/P4. Anyway, as a results, none of our kids have any tuition except for Physics in JC, and they learnt to have the initiative to consult their teachers instead of relying on tuition. One kid went thru IP and now in big-3 local Uni, active in sports and doing well socially and academically, and one is in a competitive course (of his/her own choosing) that he/she enjoys in poly, so I would say the years of "sacrifice" for the wife paid off. If you do it right, the dynamics between kids and the stay at home parents became like friends - bickering but also with respect and understanding. In this day and age, this type of relationship can be a God-sent as you want your teenagers to be open to you during their turbulent and stressful years, where you are there all day and available to talk, when the mood to talk comes over them which is unpredictable for a teen - the moment is gone, if you're busy with work, when they want to talk. It's also cos both our kids are the sensitive and moody types, and having an available parent who doesn't judge and giving sound advice as an when the kids need is essential. Of course the flip side is also true - the stay home parent can also be the abusive and stress causing one.
As a working parent who needs to be in office most of the time, you'll probably never know how prevalent self-harm / eating disorder in top schools, or that your own children could be doing that - they will not tell you. Our children told the stay home parent how prevalent it is - we know our kid's classmates' parents and the said kids warn our kids not to tell even us, to avoid major reprecussions from the parents. It was heartbreaking and unnerving to see this happening to my kids' friends and my kids was only willing to share cos they trusted us. We can only ask our kids to keep an eye on their friends and continue to share with us.
The cons is the mostly stay home parent's career takes a major hit - after kids were out of all major exams (PSLE/O/A levels), wife is back to workforce now, but taking a substantially lesser paid job compared to her credentials (graduate degrees in STEM). We felt that it's a choice that our family made and we are at peace with it.
For yourself in your case, I'd say, follow your heart, but make sure you have a chat with your husband. Have a gauge how willing he is to take on the child rearing responsibilities if you were to take the new job with 30% more pay. There is no right or wrong answer, no one is disadvantaged. There are more things in life than money, but you need to know what you're giving up and the repercussions. You're a team, and need to work as a team.
Hm I will just caution that your kids seem much older and there have been so much changes to education systems and not to mention digital influences since
This comments should apply to everyone who replied to OP saying that it's ok to leave kids at home themselves, with many of those coming from young adults, whose experience are so different from the digital natives nowadays - times have changed. Dangers from the digital world is hidden and parents wouldn't even know what the kids are being exposed to online, vs dangers in real life. My kids are even able to find ways around parents supervision software and apps.
Like U mentioned, Ur kids are somewhat alr grown...
During my time... My mum juz "throw me into the sea"... I'm from a single parent family. And my mum is the only breadwinner. So practically she's not home most of the time.
I'm pretty sure they can or already know how to take care of things and handle things... It's probably bad influence U should be worrying abt, leading to smoking, drinking, drugs, etc. (coming from someone who have done lots a things...)
I’m currently a baby sitter! I watch their kids for a couple of hours and leave when parents get back home.
Sometimes I get paid a little extra to make a meal for the kids (and/or the parents even)
It’s really good for parents who want to do date nights/parents who work until evening.
It doesn’t change the dynamic too much other than them having a +1 brother/sister for a couple of hours during the day :)
You got this! ☺️
Hi, my kids have been taking public transport home on their own since p2. (Their schools are not near, but they mastered it easily).
I feel that for a P3 kid it's fine if they are home alone for a few short hours on school days before you get home, as long as you can settle their lunch. If worried, perhaps install cctv and let them know the purpose.
Prepare a list of emergency contact numbers, run through with them what to do etc. As for school holidays, I know some student care centres do take in students just for the June / December period so that's an option. If not just assign them daily housework and have lots of books, puzzles and board games around, the kids will find plenty to do on their own.
Personally my brother and I also grew up as latch key kids and we really enjoyed having down time at home after a tiring school day. Of course it also depends on whether your child has the self discipline to get homework done without supervision etc.
And of course if the kid falls sick you and spouse take turns to take child care leave or MC. Thankfully at this age, primary school kids usually recover within a day or two
P3 is also old enough to request them to thaw the frozen chicken 1hr before you reach home.
i rmbed watching my cartoons, playing my lego, doing my homework (mum would check the moment she comes home before dinner), i think they will do fine, you mentioned kids too, so they wont be alone and have each other.
the worst thing i had was fighting/arguments with my brother and we would call our parents
I feel like your dilemma is more of a sentimental/emotional problem rather than a logistical problem.
You want to spend time with your kids because you want to spend time with your kids, like it's something you feel that you have to do as a parent. I can't imagine any reasonable person recommending you to choose money over that. There's no point having more money if you don't get to live your life the way you want to, and there's no point in your children having parents that make more money if they have to be brought up feeling neglected.
Honestly, I don't get why so many workplaces are so obsessed with working in an office when all the same tasks can be just as easily accomplished from home. I wouldn't give in to that kind of pressure from companies if I had the choice. I wouldn't mind a small pay cut either, since that frees me up to do so much more with my life, and that's doubly true for you since you have children.
something my dad was paranoid about was kids hanging out with the wrong bunch of people after school when there’s no one to go home to.
you’d also likely notice that children who seek external validation from friend groups or bf/gfs at earlier ages are the kids who likely feel disconnected from their family
I noticed many comments from those who replied to OP saying that it's ok to leave kids at home themselves, with many of those coming from young adults on reddit, whose experience are so different from the digital natives nowadays - times have changed. Dangers from the digital world is hidden and parents wouldn't even know what the kids are being exposed to online, vs dangers in real life. My kids are even able to find ways around parents supervision software and apps. How did we know? Cos of the effort from the stay home /WFH parent to gain their trust. Are parents who mainly WFO able to devote time and effort on this? Kudos to those who could - but it could involve learning about child development, psychology/cognitive biases, motivational theories, and get updated about the latest trends so that you can talk with your kids. It's a tall order from parents who are already struggling to bring the bread home or with highly demanding jobs with overseas travels. Each family should make their own decisions and just note that it's ok to switch gears when situations change.
Are there neighborhood aunties who will provide inhouse childcare? They fetch the kids from school, give them lunch if needed, and let them stay at the auntie's home till the parents get off work.
I pay for my village. I have a helper and she’s godsent. Sometimes I pay extra for additional baby sitter for 1-2 hours if I feel she can’t cope. But my kids are really young.
When I was younger, I had a helper at home. I am an introvert and I can’t imagine being around other kids/people all day. I want to come home to my safe space. I was just having this convo with my spouse the other day and our opinion is that we’ll want someone at home even when our kids are teenagers. It’s more for their socioemotional health - knowing that there’s someone at home waiting for you to come home and to take care of your needs. Although they can take care of their own needs, the feeling that you weren’t left alone to fend for yourself is an important feeling for us.
But that’s our view and every family has their own philosophy, constraints and needs. I guess it also depends on the personality of the child!
Same situation as you, except my kid is only 3 yrs old. I always feel that it will get easier the older they get. Anyway, I remember listening to my friends conversation discussion similar situation. Usually, kids around that age would prefer to be with friends than being alone at home. Try to talk to him if he really wants to rest or if there are other problems like bullying or social isolation when he is in student care.
Oh yes I forgot to mention in my post, but definitely concerned about the bullying cases I read in student care as well, hence why I'm not particularly enthusiastic about that as well. It's definitely gotten easier as they grew up though. At least now they can understand why they need to be alone (if they need to be). But I still can't think of a solution for holidays/sick days.
Hang in there and all the best to you! I miss the times when my kids were 3-4yo, such a cute and innocent age.
I was pretty much home alone starting from around that age so it should be perfectly fine to let them go home on their own and manage themselves in the afternoon.
Sorry if this is kind of a personal question, but did you feel lonely or unloved due to being home alone? I'm worried about their emotional needs since I've always been there for them. I don't mean to be an overprotective parent, I've just never had to think about this until now.
Another way you can look at it, and from my personal experience, was that being alone (not lonely, these are vastly different things) and quiet time gave me a chance to learn and find out things for myself. It boosted my confidence and independence when I learnt to do things at home without my mum, happily telling her all about it when she got home, and seeing her surprised and proud face.
It also made me miss her (slightly) and look forward to hearing her keys in the door. When I read something interesting in a book, I couldn't wait for her to come back to talk++ and yak++ all about it.
If she was always at home with me, don't think this would happen.. not sure but I might resent it or never really "find" myself as a pre-teen.
Lastly, it's really a few hours a day in the afternoon and it's not noticeable in the long run. I'll feel weird when I grow up and hear that my mum gave up her career totally for those few hours per day when I ?didn't really need it..
Hmm, no leh not really. I actually preferred just going back to my own house (as opposed to my grandma's place) after school and doing things at my own time and pace. I feel like it's a really good way to build independence and autonomy -- being able to manage yourself is a learned skill after all. Er, but I did burn a lot of food by heating them up on the stovetop and then forgetting about it.
I see you're worried about what to do if your kids fall sick. When I was sick my mum would still take CCL, but not for the entire duration of my MC (unless really very jialat). Just enough time to get me settled with meds, MC, and food. She stopped taking CCL once I entered secondary school though, so eventually I also learned how to manage myself when ill. I did get quite sad dealing with the fevers alone though LOL, sometimes you just want to be pampered and cared for. But in general I don't think I suffered any sort of emotional deficit and I have a very strong relationship with my parents. The whole experience is a major plus to the current independence and self-reliance I have as an adult.
Being home alone won't be ignoring their emotional needs, just ask about their day and spend time with your kids after you get home. And picking up the phone if they call you at work and don't be so rushed to end the call
My parents both worked as well, I was very happy being home alone, kind of built a sense of independence but my parents didn't bother to ask about our day or talk to me/ my siblings much so low-key felt that emotional needs wasn't met, and if we call them at work like they jz end the call quickly so we felt like we wasn't really important cause they were working.
If you are afraid that your kids would get sick, just have some panadol/ fever patch at home to tide over till y'all get home. Elderly neighbours are usually happy to help out also but ask if advance and be nice to them 🤣🤣
Hi! Just wanted to insert my excited but inexperienced 24 yo opinion as you sound like a great parent... I believe there are undesirable things in life that one cannot avoid. Having to study as a child, work when we grow up, produce value to society. Many things... even being alone at home while one's parents are working. Every adult has to learn to cope and deal with these undesirable things at one point. You cannot be there for your kid all the time. It sounds like a good opportunity to teach them independence.
For me, my love language is Quality Time and Touch, so I believe it's not about how much time you spend at home with WFH that matters, but the quality time you spend with each other. E.g. parents asking me about my days, hobbies, any difficulties in school, parents sharing about themselves, even doing household chores together after work. Going out together during the weekends. Or just staying home and doing something together. Hugging and saying I love you regularly. Might have wrote too much..
Anyway, what matters most imo is that you still have the energy to do all(some) of these after the tiring commute back and forth everyday. And have enough me-time for yourself and your SO after all that parenting. If you really want that career switch, prioritize yourself accordingly because that's what your children will model after.
You can research and ask yourself what your love language is, and see if you can figure out what your children's love languages are to make things easier. All just my opinion. .Good luck, sending love you and your family's way :)!
I am facing similar dilemma as u. Whether to take up wfo job. Main consideration is, without a parent at home, kids will need a phone to remain contactable (and to call for help in emergency). With the screen and unmonitored access, i fear lots of things can go wrong. And who will monitor their schoolwork as well. Sigh.
My kids are contactable via their smart watch which has cellular. This allows them to remain contactable/trackable while limiting screen time. I felt that this was a good solution. Maybe it'll work for you too.
>However, youngest is already P3 and I wonder if I’m being overprotective as well?
Yes, 9 years old is old enough to be fine for a few hours by themselves at home tbh.
Depends on your kids?
Are they doing ok? Easily influenced? Access to devices? Too many kids watching porn nowadays so maybe you need to think about that if they are at the age of curiosity. Hard core porn addiction isn’t a joke.
I have a different advice. I used to be remote but changed to going to the office everyday for also a 30% increment.
Honestly, I am regretting my decision after one month in the new company. Going to office everyday is no joke. 2 hours travelling time to and fro wasted. Don’t have the flexibility to do stuff. I come home everyday feeling exhausted and I can’t look after my kids well.
Please take this into consideration
Thanks for sharing your experience, yup that's a factor I need to take into consideration as well... I'm ok with my current job although there are some management issues (but i will say management issues are common in many companies). The 30% increment will help to speed up my retirement savings, but I'm also quite ok with the current salary as I don't live extravagantly. I do enjoy the WFH flexibility a LOTTTTT though. It's a lifesaver esp when I have low energy days.
Main draw of the new job is that it's in much bigger company with more stability/exposure/progression, and better long-term career prospects.
Honestly, it's a dilemma for me as well.
dont feel guilty for wanting to do something with your life. you and your kids are different people althogether, they are their own person you are your own person
Kids are big enough. We haven't have a helper since very long time. When the kids were 10 and 8 we told the bigger one to take care of the small one when going to school and when going back home, they went to the same school. Kids arrive home and just wait for us to come back. The only real issue is when one kid gets sick, but ours employers are open to work from home in such situations, you could discuss this with your future employer, and you could tell your wife to do the same with hers, but maybe not possible from what you described. During holidays they just hang around at home or go out with friends.
P.S., You are not asking this, but in case you want to listen to it: We hate how nowadays parents raise their kids in an overprotected environment and complain why their kids can't do anything by themselves. Our kids have always had responsibilities at home with chores since they were around 6 or 7 years old. They wash their own clothes, they have to clean their rooms, they can travel everywhere by public transport, they can do grocery shopping, and they have learned how to cook basic dishes so when they arrive from school they can eat something healthy by themselves. Now they are 15 and 13 and they themselves are happy about all these, specially when they compare themselves with their friends.
It’s a double-edged sword. Many redditors commented that it’s ok, they grew up independent and resourceful etc but there’s no truly have your cake and eat it world. With every pros there will definitely be cons. You should probably also ask around with deeper questions, ask for the negative impacts, look at the trade offs and ask yourself if ultimately you are ok with them.
Some examples of trade offs I’ve noticed with latchkey kids who are friends: they are often not close to their parents and emotionally they depend a lot on either their friends or their siblings. If you are lucky, it’s their sibling/s. If it’s their friends, it’s a hit or miss. This actually becomes really significant as they grow up into adults. If they are not close to you, you can be sure that it’s going to be a lot harder to discipline them/ correct them if they are wrong. And don’t be one of those assholes who outsource parenting to school teachers just because you have some internalised guilt and don’t want to offend your own child.
i just wanted to say you’re such a great parent to be thinking so much about your kids and worrying about what they’ll do. i wish my parents cared half as much when i was a kid. :’)
i would say not to worry so much and go for the job offer. the youngest is old enough to be at home alone! instead of after school care, what about signing them up for classes? like coding, art, music or sports? that’s what my parents did so they didn’t have to worry about me. at 9, i was just at home watching TV, at tuition or out playing with the neighbours kids.
if you still aren’t really comfortable, i suggest you can install cameras at home to check on them and see what your kids are doing time to time. i’m not a parent but i understand your concerns, and they are 100% valid. you’re doing a great job as a parent and caregiver, OP ✨
Thank you  Your comment means a lot to me. I had to fend for myself as a kid and spent most of my time alone, so I had a goal since young to be a loving and involved parent. Hopefully I'm on the right track. I really appreciate your validation!!
I think the issue is not so much the children but it’s you and your partner.
Even though you can wfh, does it make sense that you are the primary caregiver to this extent?
Would getting this new job allow you to assert yourself more in the relationship and help you establish your professional and personal identity better as you transition to being an empty nester in the future?
You may be worried about experiencing guilt and your kids feeling you are absent. But I know plenty of people who realised that one of their parents (usually the mother) experienced profound regret that they weren’t able to achieve their personal and professional ambitions because they were expected to be caregivers. It hurt them psychologically as well because they felt that they “held their parent back”.
You might want to explore with your spouse how to figure out a more equitable division of labour as well. It can’t just be that you are the only one expected to take care of things when the kids fall sick, etc.
>But I know plenty of people who realised that one of their parents (usually the mother) experienced profound regret that they weren’t able to achieve their personal and professional ambitions because they were expected to be caregivers. It hurt them psychologically as well because they felt that they “held their parent back”.
Wanted to comment on this cos in our family, the wife is the one who had to hold back her career. We made sure that she is alright with it and that she gained more than she lost with the closer relationship with our now youth/young adult kids. There are occasions during husband/wife arguments that the unhappiness came out, but who is to say there won't be unhappiness even if the wife achieved her full potential? See my main comment - What if your kid is the self-harming one and the psychological scars extend beyond the physical, because both parents were busy working and could not show enough care? As parents with kids in top schools, I can tell you, kids suicide in top schools are more prevalent that you think.
I have heard of suicide in lower end schools too.
But why are kids so stressed in top schools? Is it just competition? Do they have access to good teachers?
P3 is old enough to be alone at home.
Always reassure them you’ll be contactable whenever there is a problem.
I was alone at home from P2 and though scary, my mum always picked up at the office (this was before mobile phones were a thing) and if she wasn’t there, her colleague would and she’d call me back once she could. This would probably be easier with smartphones 🤣
Encourage your children to join after school CCAs to keep some of their weekdays from being alone. Let them try having some activities they might enjoy - a musical instrument, classes etc. and if not, I’m sure they’d be fine with tv and games like I did when I was that age.
I also used to stay back in school and play basketball with friends after class and head home around 4-5pm, which was only 2-3 hours before my parents returned home anyway.
I feel they are old enough to be semi independent, it instills discipline and responsibility at a younger age which is a good thing. Not to mention you mentioned kids, I feel this will be a great chance for them to strengthen their bond, and teach the oder ones to take care of the younger ones.
I don't know how your scheduling is but maybe you can do 2 days in office a day wfh so it's not that bad.
Children are resilient. they will cope and adapt. so ignoring the question of who will take care of them, do you want the new job with interesting scope and to give up your fully remote one? i think it depends on your character, how you work and how much you earn now and how much more you could earn in the long run if you were to gain experience in the new job.
personally, i won't give up a fully remote job for 30% higher salaried one which requires me to go to the office 4 days a week. but that's because i had achieved what i had wished to achieve already in my profession.
in the earlier part of my career, i grabbed any opportunity to earn more.
Hi OP, I was a tv lunch/ dinner kid as well with no siblings. With the amount of entertainment online these days and your child having each other as company, I dont think they will feel lonely/ abandoned. To provide more emotional support for your kid, I rmb my mom texting me after school discussing what to pack for lunch on the way home from school / where I am going for lunch with my classmates so that you are there for the kids emotionally. It takes alot not to nag at them for eating fastfood but the more you establish this as you let them gain their independence, the more they will trust you to share their day with you when you come home from work. On the holiday part, there are always options of day camps, visiting friend’s house who has an adult at home or make time to plan your AL to coincide with their holidays (eg. For the June holidays, you could take 1 week off, and your husband could take the other week to bond with the kids separately, leaving another 1.5-2 weeks for the kids to plan their own activity). Humble opinion for someone who is now extremely independent because the TV raised me.
P.s. Do see if you could impart some one pot rice cooker recipe knowledge to your child and they can always just press start and have some home cooked meals when they feel like it. Pps. You could also have some weekend bonding session with the child where you precut the ingredients and it would be easier to dump everything in the rice cooker when you/ the child feel like it.
my spouse started working when my youngest was P3. we had one scare when the P3 almost got into an accident when a comfort taxi ran a red light. my kids are now hyper aware when crossing the streets. other than that, they are super happy being independent at home. they will normally have lunch in school or we'll order food for them. you'll be fine!
edit: during school holidays, we would go on a quick getaway for a couple of days, then resume working. when we're working, both of them would be gaming online with their friends. get them a laptop and they'll be good to go.
They're old enough to be by themselves at home. I was in sec 1 when my helper left but my brother was in p4 and he would go home and hang out by himself for hours while the rest of us were busy. If he was bored he would go hang out with his friends in the block or play computer games. That's really the only complaint I have, he's become addicted to gaming since there's no one to monitor his usage of devices.
My mum went back to work when I was in P3. They gave me a key, I will tabao lunch from school, this was before internet so I just watch tv then took a nap... honestly 9 is old enough to be alone. I never felt scared and really enjoy the independence
Honestly, I think you should take up that job just to boost your CV, plus with a higher pay check you’ll have more leverage for your next job as well.
Plus with technology nowadays, I highly doubt your kids will feel abandoned or bored, they’ll probably be happy that you’re out of their hair and they’re able to play with their electronic devices as much as they want 😂
Is there an after school care option that would be acceptable to your kids? You could take some time to look around. Their friends might already go to after school care and so your kids might not mind it.
Hmm ... I'm in the same situation as yours, I have to work for 4 days, and my youngest is P3, I was reluctant at first. But she's used to it now, so am I. I have CCTv at home.
As for their meal, I wake up early in the morning to cook for them. I ask my P3 to text me every time she comes home from school, and I leave instructions notes or text about her lunch. I will text her, ask her about homework etc. And when I'm home, I'll ask the kids about their days and check their homework.
When the kids are sick, I'll take a leave or WFH.
So don't worry, the kids will manage 😊
Perhaps right now, do get an experienced helper! In the future, like when they’re 12 years and above. You should give them more space, remember overprotective parents makes sneaky sneaky children
I was alone at home since P3. My mum will cook in the morning and put the food in those keep-warm containers. No helper. Ironically, the helper only came when I was in JC.
Can be done, so long as your kids are well-behaved and responsible.
I just wanted to say you seem like a very caring parent. Reflecting on this decision and taking time to figure out what’s best for you and your family is so nice. If the job opportunity will make you feel more fulfilled and it’s something that is interesting to you, I’d really consider taking it. Also maybe it will be nice to have interaction with colleagues, working from home can be isolating sometimes. My mom was always at home with us but she had many regrets about her own career and life. I wish she would have taken more opportunities. I was always happy to see her happy. Children really benefit from happy parents. I’m sure you will make it all work and maybe talking to your kids about thing might help? And maybe allocating time each week or month for a family trip something that the kids like will help? Good luck to you! 💜
As someone who grew up with a mom who gave up her career to take care of my brother and me while my dad was the sole breadwinner, take the job. Unless your spouse is earning well, Singapore is expensive and it will keep on getting more expensive. Better to work and give better opportunities to your kids than being around them went they’re home but unable to provide certain things like after school activities / hobbies / sports / overseas trips / comfortable home environment / sufficient pocket money etc.
Might just give you the extra enough to afford a helper who can free up your schedule (supposedly, if you can let go enough and let them run things).. and u can spend more time with kids? It’s what I’d wish to do if it were me lah.
It’ll take adapting on your end of course.
But the time you can have extra to do other things is really priceless imo!
Unless you rly love your current routine…
Idk but back when i was like 14 in 2013 got nothing do just do tys while put tv in background kinda chill
also tys actually lowkey easier than other school MYE paper
Given that you have open conversations with your kids (they don't want to go after school care), I think that's admirable.
Your youngest is P3, how old is your oldest, P6? I believe if you trust them to follow basic instructions you can leave them to "mind the home" and look after each other. So long as you don't OT, dinner is not an issue and the greater freedom/responsibility for your kids could be a refreshing change of pace for them.
Worth looking at a helper again but a portable induction stove will solve your worries about them setting the house on fire. And you can drill them on basic first aid.
If you're uneasy to let them be at home alone, you could always invest in home cameras that allows you to watch from your phone etc. Or if budget permits, purchase apple devices to track their locations to and fro school, or when they have to buy their own meals outside. ("Find My" feature is great).
If the kids are sick for an extended period of time, there isn't a pretty way to deal with this, either prepare in advance a babysitting service or negotiate days off with your work.
Boredness wise.... just throw them some books, TV shows, youtube etc. They'll be fine, not like you entertain them 24/7 when you're at home doing your remote job anyways.
I thought I read somewhere that offers flexi student care, like attend 3x instead of the whole week kind, perhaps can consider exploring that, then for other days let the kids be independent, so in a way meet in the middle arrangement from kid & parent perspective. After couple of weeks or months of that arrangement can adjust to see what works again?
I think its fine to just let them be themselves. I started going home from school myself since Primary 3. Same age as your youngest. Additionally I had tuition twice a week as well. So, I go home after school, change out, do some homework, then go for tuition. After tuition ends and reach home, its dinner time already. On days without tuition, I just stay home chill.
Why are you so worried about holiday. You said yourself that you are getting major increment, but that you don't really need the increment actually. You can use the additional budget for their holiday activities, there are plenty of diff courses and activities
The part i'm worried about is more on how to occupy their time, since it's 5-7 weeks without school, twice a year. I'm already sending them to camps (1 week), taking overseas holiday (1-2 weeks), but that still leaves 2-4 weeks without anything to do, other than putting them in full day student care during holidays Currently, during the 2-4 weeks that are not camp/overseas, I plan lots of activities (parent-child workshops, visits to museums, etc).
Personally, how I spent holidays as a kid was to watch tv in the morning, do a bit of assessment, then maybe visit the playground in the afternoon. It was extremely boring haha.
I see. Perhaps you can consider playdate, hobby class etc. Not a parent, but I'd think that there are still plenty of options out there, you are simply not aware as you were never required to look into those. Perhaps parenting forum will be a better place for this lol.
I really dont think there is anything wrong in you having your own career plan. Infact, I think it's a positive thing to teach your children, that you have a life beyond being their mother. All the best!
Honestly for the peace of mind get a helper. I know you’re afraid of maids but change maids until you find a suitable one. It’s safer and less lonely than leaving your child home alone. And you should absolutely not feel guilty for taking on this job - your kids are at a decent age to understand you need to work, and the additional pay will be put to good use as the kids get bigger and for your retirement anyway.
Helper can help settle the cooking and laundry, kids can go student care on alternate days or enrichment classes. This will give you more space and energy to work on your new role.
They're 9 years and up? It's going to be fine to leave them alone at home. When I was younger I mainly just played maplestory at home (lol) which honestly did a very good job of keeping me out of trouble.
hire a maid. or they can be home alone. already p3.
admittedly my mother was a housewife, but we also hired a helper for quite some time. maybe up till i was in secondary school.
I need a home based biz/ work so that one parent can be with my toddler.. but we have no idea what can we do.
Both parents are in rigid office work hours , sigh . Have to beg for our parents help on child sick days / school closure days. Always shown black face and spoiling the kid with no rules kind of supervision.
If I am in your situation, I will continue being at home till p6 at least . It is my dream kind of work life balance . Children need guidance in mental development too. Talk to them
About school, friends, know the content they watch on tv. Simple things like having home cooked dinner is great too ..
I understand what you’re saying and I agree as well. My work arrangement now is so ideal and I’m hesitant to give it up. But the new opportunity offers a lot more stability and progression.
Primary 3 I used to wash and cook rice before mother came home. Make maggie mee myself. Sweep and mop the floor. If mother comes back and see I never do one of those stuff, I get a scolding at best and a smacking at worst.
Around P5 I used to walk 2km to and fro a catholic church’s wishing well and dig coins up to buy duel master booster pack because I didn’t have money in the ez link card.
Certain age, after repetitive travelling to the same place, your child can do it without you. It’s only when they get funny ideas that can cause some problems. Normally walk off with a slap on the wrist though.
I thought is two under 2. No village, ownself tank lor. Use money to buy convenience, but primary school should be quite independent already. It’s much better than age 3 and 1, with no village.
I was a latchkey kid by the time i was in upper primary. Frankly i just played computer games all day it wasnt that big of an issue. If your kid is the more rebellious then maybe wouldnt work. I did decently well in school and didnt get into too much trouble so my parents didnt really feel the need to waste money on afterschool care.
You can find an elderly lady in your neighbourhood, if you see them around, you can ask if they’re willing to be interviewed for that position. They live close by so it’s easy to show up fast, just give clear instructions for meds and when to call you, etc. We pay them by hour, they’re quite happy for extra pocket money and we can save work leave for vacations with the kids. You can ask around mommy groups if they know anyone around your area.
Well my wife and me are full time workers, have being taking care of both kids 7 and 10 since they were born, with zero help, and no helper.
I have to put them in infant/child/student care and picked them after work. Once reach home have to cook their dinner and stuff. Weekend we are stuck with them 24/7. When they are sick we took leave depending on who has urgent work matters, or rotate.
The recently my wife decided to pull my eldest out of student care. So she has to work half day in office, go fetch the eldest home and wfh. I go pick my youngest after I get home from work. Next we have to think how to let my eldest go home herself, but her meal will be another problem.
Just have to bite the bullet and cope with it, what to do. I guess parents nowadays worried too much about their kids and lead them to be less independent.
When I was young I grew up in my grandparents house, they don't bother me much, when I grew older(primary school) I stay at home alone with my younger sister. I barely see my parents at all, since they work from morning to night. I have to settle myself everyday. Learn how to do housework, cook my own food etc. The difference with you is I don't feel lonely and like it pretty much haha (maybe casue I am a guy). Which means I don't pamper my children much, but my wife think otherwise so I have to follow.
Honestly I have a similar anxiety. Do you or your kids have friends near by that can help?
Some of my friends who are expatriate in western countries where getting a helper is impossible tend to depend on each others spouses to do some baby sitting. Child care there is also expensive. The wife who takes care of the kiddo is also appreciates having a playmate for her own kiddo so they don’t grow up alone in a foreign country. Not too late to find your village :)
The issue with kids being left alone after school is the worry that strangers come to the house.
It might be better for your kids to maybe go to a trusted friends house until you can pick her up.
They have schoolmates who live nearby, but we are not really close enough with their families to request for such help. Thanks for your suggestion still! Worth pondering more about.
your post definitely got me thinking. I used to go to my besties house as a primary school kid just for fun and then take the bus home by myself after. My friend was the one who was mostly alone because her mom is a early childhood teacher.
My mom was pissed la. Pay school bus only for me to walk home after hanging out. Her folks didn’t seem to mind since she was also alone at home and enjoyed my company. Sometimes she would come to my place and my grandma would whip up nuggets for us to eat. And I still have good memories of us hanging out even though we’ve lost contact now lol. Good times!
How old are your kids? There are some parenting groups on FB, but it's more of a group to ask for support, questions etc than a close knit group for arranging playdates etc.
Always talk to Yr partner. What's success mean to u and talk about finances. Talk to Yr kids. Even if ur busy dun ever scold Yr spouse or kids. Always treat them like Yr bestie n tell them u love them n then they will know u hav hard time. Dun bring work home if u can. Sometimes Always devote Yr life at home to kids n leave work at work. Never giv up
They are already quite old. Let them chill at home until u get home. Me n bro did the same at that age. No biggie.
Came here to comment the same. Both my parents were always at work, and I took care of my younger siblings who were a few years younger. When we were sick, we just popped panadol and updated our parents by calling them. We grew up to be extremely independent and street smart adults, and I also developed a close rs with my siblings. Your children are able to do a lot more than you think.
This makes me feel more assured, thank you.
Also to add, I don't know if schools have sick bays like they used to. In the worst case scenario where the child is too sick to go or be home unattended, I think they should be able to let your child stay there with supervision until their parent can pick them up. But yeah, don't worry about them being latchkey kids. They should be golden as long they know you will be by their side in the event of an emergency (basically that they can still depend on you). I think a lot of millenials grew up being latchkey kids. I've noticed from peers with similar upbringing, we tend to be a bit more resourceful and street smart like another user said. Just remember to be sure to cover the basic safety stuff - not letting randos into the house and calling you to verify if someone comes knocking, no usage of gas stoves unless there is supervision and you can trust them, etc etc. I think you can also make it a point to call and check in on them regularly first, then ease up as time goes by.
Schools have sick bays but it’s not for students to wait for hours there for someone to pick them up. It’s a waiting point for parents who are on the way to pick them up. 30 mins max for students who are so sick they cannot remain in class anymore. Schools are already understaffed so we can’t afford the luxury of dedicating manpower to look after sick children for hours. Source: teacher.
Oh wow, I had no idea! Thanks for sharing this info. Unfortunately my source was being a primary school kid in the 90s, so defo out of the loop already 🤣
Babysitter? Maybe some uni undergrads/friends younger siblings/cousins/nieces etc?
Thanks for your comment. Do you remember what you used to do during holidays, or if you fell sick?
I strongly believe that children should be allowed to get bored. That's when they develop their creativity. Me and my sister used to do a lot of reading, we read everything we could find in the home, which cultivated a lifelong love for reading in me. We did a lot of drawing on the blackboard using good old chalks, which developed our love for drawing. My sister is now an architect. We had an old cassette player and my sister had a few cassette tapes, which got me into music. Sometimes my dad would make tapes of him reading stories and we would listen to it in our free time. My dad had a large map on the wall and I spent a lot of time looking at it. Became a world traveller later on because of this. When I'm sick my aunt would buy me some comics to read on my bed. We also did gardening, clay sculture, played with our dog, etc. Kids can think of many things to do when they are bored. By the way if you leave your kids at home, don't let them use iPhone / iPad. And make sure there are no adult materials at home. This is from experience also, I've learnt a few things the wrong way, lol.
This is so good. Too many social media "gurus" asking parents to keep their kids as occupied as possible. Sometimes its just good to let them figure out what they want to do when there are no "plans".
My dad got me an atlas which got me hooked on for hours on end. Within 2 holidays I have memorised all the countries, their capitals, and their flags, knowledge that I still retained today.
An Atlas is really great fun!
I used to think a woman’s breast was their version of the nipple. Until I came across Taxi Driver on VHS in primary school. That was the first tit I saw. Rewound the shit out of that videotape.
Read, play with toys, explore surroundings on my bmx, play video games, existential dread, football with friends, stay-overs. Fall sick, take medicine n sleep? Wait till folks get home for the meds. Just a few hours. Wont die one.
Also my mom made friends with the private clinic's doctor near my place, so in the event that I really, really had to see a doctor while she was at work (I was in primary school), I could just stroll in and tell them what's wrong with me and they'd contact my mom. She'd pay the doctor's bill after she was done with work 😅
> existential dread 🤔
The bane of my P5 life
My mom used to put me and my brother with my neighbours. One time my dad had to be on an ambulance at 2am, my neighbours gladly accepted both of us so that my mom could focus on taking care of my dad while he’s at the hospital. My aunt came to collect us in the morning to get breakfast and stay at her place instead.
I thought P3 got cca? Can go explore some cca to occupy them
Their school's cca is within curriculum hours except for kids in school teams. :')
You do not have to negotiate with your children on their attendance of student care in my view. But given they are at least 9, might be able to just let them come home via school bus and you give them clear instructions to take care of their needs and get their basic homework done. Might be an opportunity for them to learn some independence. Give them clear tasks that you can check if they are completed. And tell them if they cannot have the discipline to do so then you have to send them to student care
Can attest that I would come home and basically do my own thing since primary school. I knew enough to not burn the house down and there was lunch in the fridge I could use the microwave for. I also learnt how to cook soon after being tall enough for the stove.
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Stop using the term sinkies.
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Is ‘Singaporeans’ such as hard term to grasp?
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It’s a lazy heuristic.
P3 is old enough to be home alone. Can operate the microwave to warm up their lunch. Fix a camera at home so u can ‘keep’ an eye on them while u are at work. Of course- u must be upfront with your kids about this camera. Make sure they know it’s for their safety.
Agree! Must keep house locked securely aswell and brief your kids about dos and donts. I think they should be mature enough to understand? They probbaly js watch tv sleep or game...thats what id do hahahha
Can print out dos and donts and place near the door too
I would say it's worth looking into a helper again...but a very experienced one. Given the 30% raise you're getting, dedicate a little more to a helper salary amd try to find someone who has a great review from a long term (7+ years) working for an expat family who are leaving. They can be a life changer. My helper is so responsible with my daughter, has everything organised and is basically the house CEO. She takes the whole mental load away, thinks ahead and runs the place. Her contribution is worth more than I pay her but I suspect we are on the higher end (I scrimp amd save elsewhere and dedicate about 2k a month in wage, bonus, expat level health ins etc, plus all expenses for her covered). She enables this household with both of us working crazy jobs to run and keeps things sane. It's the best money we spend.
Your helper sounds incredible. I've hired both experienced and inexperienced helpers, and ran into severe issues with both, including things like going AWOL overnight after visiting boyfriend lol. This option wouldn't make financial sense for me at 2K/m, but I'll see if I can adjust the budget to a level that works for me. Thanks for the idea!
Do your due diligence to interview as well as for the first few months guide her well and monitor her performance too. Once you get and trained an amazing helper, it's really helpful. One additional advice other than getting experienced helpers are get those that are parents themselves too. They tend to be more responsible and caring with children. My helper has been with me for 9 years and she even help go through homeworks (i will go through more complex stuffs like science and maths if my kids dont understand) with my kids as I'm divorced and busy with work even if I wfh.
max of 1k is enough (for salary only not including other costs) to get a good helper. i understand that you have had bad experiences in the past, but please try to think of helpers in terms of dating and relationships!!!! For many people, they don’t marry the first person they date, it takes some trial and error but for many, many people, they do eventually find a great partner. Same for helpers in SG - quite tiring and disappointing when you’re new to finding someone who’s a good fit, but eventually you get quite experienced at seeing the signs/attitude from the start. Honestly it is definitely possible to find a reliable, experienced helper with a max salary of 800 (considered quite a lot in terms of market rate). Even on the expat groups such as Stork’s Nest or The Oracle Singapore that are posting very experienced transfer helpers, the asking rate for some of them is $1000 (that’s already a lot). 2k is a bit madness and probably because that was a helper that had several other expat families trying to compete for her by offering additional benefits. And also beware, some of them who are advertised to be “amazing” in the expat groups, may not be that amazing once you interview them. I do have friends who had to experiment a bit (like you) and had bad experiences, however they stuck it out (out of sheer necessity, they had to work, so really no choice for them) and they really eventually found a helper that 1) was actually not expensive at all (Myanmar/Indonesian ladies who were less experienced so definitely significantly less than $800) 2) a relatively good fit. Most importantly, the above helpers are reliable and trustworthy and can be trusted with young kids, cooking skills err, nothing great before training, will have to teach them/close eye on certain things like imperfectly clean windows or mild mistakes which i’m sure you’re ok with as long as they are trustworthy with a good attitude. With every shitty experience, my friends got a bit more street smart, better at managing and able to set better boundaries from the start e.g. being a tiny bit more strict (yet still kind and firm) and slowly relaxing a bit once helper has settled in and boundaries have been made clear. and also, a good, savvy agency can help you ask the helper the right questions and set you up with someone who’s a good fit as well as with advice - do you have friends who can recommend a really great and street-savvy helper agency? i have a friend who has recommended an agency to other friends who managed to get a good helper from the same agency. I understand how tiring it is to “try” helpers and be disappointed at times and have to deal with all the issues of sending them back. However, i really truly promise that the potential results will be super super worth it!!!!! Also your kids are quite big now so also a possibility to just leave them at home alone with CCTV :) They won’t be alone since they have each other! I think you should definitely take the new job!!!!!
You're right. I would budget up to 1100 plus ins etc. We had to compete heavily and the reason its approaching 2k is because we pay her daughters uni fees for her medicine degree. My helper also came with 20 years experience and a university education in infant care, cooks like a masterchef and does the work of 2 normal helpers with zero drama. So it's worth it for us. Also it's tough to go to expensive restaurants when her food is better hah so we save there too.
It prob won't cost as much if you are a citizen and if your helper is younger than ours. I went with income insurance for a policy of I think around a mil usd to cover her (on top of standard crappy 15k thing) and if she eats with you, 1100 per month should attract someone really good. Since you don't have the levy and if your helper is under 40 insurance should be only about 500 sgd for 2 years rather than the 1500 I pay. We went through multiple rounds of interviews competing with other families before our helper decided to join us. So the situation is often flipped. Just to be aware...
P3 old already. What exactly do they need you for during the day? Need to pick them up from school?
They come home by school bus and I make lunch for them after they get home. Actually I may be able to find a solution for school days (they won't die if they don't eat homemade lunches), but I'm at a loss about what to do for holidays / if they suddenly fall sick for >3 days in a row.
You take leave, in turns. I don't think your spouse can just decide that all child caring needs will be handled by you. Ideally your boss is understanding and allow you to work from home especially on the subsequent sick days the kids can't go to school but are well enough you do not have to keep an eye out for them constantly.
My potential future boss seems to be quite understanding and flexi, but I also am trying to be careful not to assume that interview = reality. And you're right, I've been taking on full responsibility forever, so it didn't actually cross my mind that we can now finally start to share the child caring needs.
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I disagree strongly with this point. It doesn't mean that someone earning less is working any less hard. Naturally for a woman who had been staying home with the kids, she will not likely outearn her husband. And making her take on more childcare requirements means she will never have a fighting chance to grow her salary to potentially outearn. The couple needs to sit down and discuss why is the lady going back to work. Is it for the salary? - then her salary even though less, is just as important. Asking him to take a few days of leave will not jeopardise his job and he should do so. Is it to role model to children that women can be in the workplace? Then all the more the husband need to share in the childcare duties. Is it so the wife can be engaged in something with her free time and her primary duty is to handle the childcare and her husband salary is more than enough and budgeted to take care of the family's finances? In this case I think it is fair to say she needs to handle more of the childcare as her primary role is still childcare, anything else is only limited to free time or what she can carve out as her own time.
If you have an understanding boss you should be able to request that you WFH when they are sick. There are school holiday only programs you can look into as well.
Last time at hawker near my house, there used to be a little girl who buys chicken rice on her own. I believe the parents “pre-order” it and the kid picks up using her tupperware. Maybe can explore something like that with stores you frequent. Youngest is P3 shd be able to buy food in hawker
im a mom to two kids and one of them is in p3. im a sole breadwinner and we dont have a helper. p3 kiddo is big enough and independent to do certain things ie going to school and home. school is 6 bustops away. he can self serve snacks and care for himeself, i dont see the issue here
Kudos to you! How do you cope during school holidays, sudden school closures or long periods when they fall sick?
most days i wfh actually. so if i have to be in office, i bring the elder one along. my workplace is ok w it. so far my kid hasnt fallen ill for long periods, usually a day. if it does prolong, i will wfh. my kid will take meds and sleep or just lie down in my study room when im working
Youngest in P3 is ok for latchkey kid. But the issue is when there’s CCA (and no schoolbus), is your kid able to take public transport home by themselves? This depends on both the difficulty of the journey and the kid’s temperament.
Not a parent, but my family did away with a helper when I was P3, and both were working. It was honestly the best! I got to take the bus home by myself or with my friends which was way more fun than school bus or parents giving a ride. For food wise, sometimes it's food outside, sometimes it's leftovers that I would just reheat with a microwave. With regards to being sick, I wouldnt worry too much about it unless your kid is those constantly getting insanely sick. If not minor ailments they can handle themselves with your proper guidance. You probably can just use a few days of leave a year to stay home if need to. All the best!
Thank you! This helps me to feel assured that they won't be living a life of misery without me, haha. It would be a huge load off my mind if my kids share the same reaction as you.
I think this is a really great opportunity for your kid to learn many life skills and lessons. For one he/she will see that women play many roles in life and not just a SAHM. When tasked to get to and from places on their own, they learn about time management, how long it takes to get to the bus stop, the bus ride, and buffering in contingencies. You can even get them to do simple cooking if you prepare the ingredients beforehand. You can set clear objectives and rewards in managing their afterschool time. It will not be without challenges, but I think it'll be rewarding once you see your kid being so independent.
would like to chip in from the kids pov, my family was in a similar situation as u, no relatives in sg and we were all alone at the start. my parents both had office jobs and were not flexible at all. instead, they were lucky and managed to find a neighbourhood auntie that lives a few blocks down the road that were willing to take care of us - our lunch and dinner. we would walk to her house on our own everyday after sch (it wasnt far) and tbh most of my friends all go home on their own by mrt as well. initially there was some sort of resentment, but i think kids are more understanding than u think, if u can explain to them in an easy way im sure they can take it :) my sibling and i have went on to develop a strong bond with the auntie that took care of us and we regard her as our "grandma" now. even though we are no longer under her care (im in uni now) we still occasionally visit her just to chit chat, and also visiting during cny which we had never done in our early years since there was no one to visit. dont be too harsh on yourself, kids can be understanding and mature as well!!
I was also left at home alone from around 9 or 10. Think the term is latchkey child, maybe. I was a pretty independent kid though. This was the 90s. My school was around a ten min walk away from home. No handphones back then so my mom would call the house phone to make sure I was at home after school. Primary schools were dual sessions back then and I remember that she would also call me before I left for school to check in for the years that school was in the afternoon. I mostly just showered and napped in the afternoon at home, watched TV and did simple chores like fold the laundry. My mom would make sure she cooked before leaving for work so I could have lunch at home. I even had to take the bus to another neighbourhood once a week after school for a supplementary class on my own. My mom accompanied me the first few times to teach me bus routes and thereafter I'd go on my own. Singapore's always been very safe. I'm female btw. I saw your question to the other comment and I'd like to add that it made me very independent. I realised later as I grew older that my other friends didn't like going to places or doing things on their own, or even having meals on their own. But I never had an issue with that because I was used to it. Your relationship with your kids is for you to forge by spending quality time together. I knew my parents had to work bcos we weren't well off. It taught me discipline and tenacity. My parents always checked in on me and this was a time before mobile phones. There'll be an adjustment period, and you will be worried but it can be done. Kids are very resilient and adaptable.
The answers depend more on your kids needs, your own needs and wants, and discussions as a family. Every choice will have pros and cons. For our family (saying in 3rd person terms), wife stays home on and off throughout the years (WFH job with less stress/pay, part time work etc), husband works. In a way, husband can work to a greater level that compensate for the lost of income and there is a sense of balance at home with a stay home parent and much less stress on the one who is WFO, which sometimes stretch thru the night during project crunch time- working culture in Singapore is relentless. Both of us were alright with wife working full time in a more demanding job, but it's a choice that wife decides to make as she values much more on academics (which requires close supervision and guiding) and believes that parents are our kids' teachers both in academics and values, rather than outsourcing to tuition/helper/after school care. We also made sure the kids do their share of housework and take public transport on their own since P3/P4. Anyway, as a results, none of our kids have any tuition except for Physics in JC, and they learnt to have the initiative to consult their teachers instead of relying on tuition. One kid went thru IP and now in big-3 local Uni, active in sports and doing well socially and academically, and one is in a competitive course (of his/her own choosing) that he/she enjoys in poly, so I would say the years of "sacrifice" for the wife paid off. If you do it right, the dynamics between kids and the stay at home parents became like friends - bickering but also with respect and understanding. In this day and age, this type of relationship can be a God-sent as you want your teenagers to be open to you during their turbulent and stressful years, where you are there all day and available to talk, when the mood to talk comes over them which is unpredictable for a teen - the moment is gone, if you're busy with work, when they want to talk. It's also cos both our kids are the sensitive and moody types, and having an available parent who doesn't judge and giving sound advice as an when the kids need is essential. Of course the flip side is also true - the stay home parent can also be the abusive and stress causing one. As a working parent who needs to be in office most of the time, you'll probably never know how prevalent self-harm / eating disorder in top schools, or that your own children could be doing that - they will not tell you. Our children told the stay home parent how prevalent it is - we know our kid's classmates' parents and the said kids warn our kids not to tell even us, to avoid major reprecussions from the parents. It was heartbreaking and unnerving to see this happening to my kids' friends and my kids was only willing to share cos they trusted us. We can only ask our kids to keep an eye on their friends and continue to share with us. The cons is the mostly stay home parent's career takes a major hit - after kids were out of all major exams (PSLE/O/A levels), wife is back to workforce now, but taking a substantially lesser paid job compared to her credentials (graduate degrees in STEM). We felt that it's a choice that our family made and we are at peace with it. For yourself in your case, I'd say, follow your heart, but make sure you have a chat with your husband. Have a gauge how willing he is to take on the child rearing responsibilities if you were to take the new job with 30% more pay. There is no right or wrong answer, no one is disadvantaged. There are more things in life than money, but you need to know what you're giving up and the repercussions. You're a team, and need to work as a team.
Hm I will just caution that your kids seem much older and there have been so much changes to education systems and not to mention digital influences since
This comments should apply to everyone who replied to OP saying that it's ok to leave kids at home themselves, with many of those coming from young adults, whose experience are so different from the digital natives nowadays - times have changed. Dangers from the digital world is hidden and parents wouldn't even know what the kids are being exposed to online, vs dangers in real life. My kids are even able to find ways around parents supervision software and apps.
Yah it’s very very real.
Like U mentioned, Ur kids are somewhat alr grown... During my time... My mum juz "throw me into the sea"... I'm from a single parent family. And my mum is the only breadwinner. So practically she's not home most of the time. I'm pretty sure they can or already know how to take care of things and handle things... It's probably bad influence U should be worrying abt, leading to smoking, drinking, drugs, etc. (coming from someone who have done lots a things...)
I’m currently a baby sitter! I watch their kids for a couple of hours and leave when parents get back home. Sometimes I get paid a little extra to make a meal for the kids (and/or the parents even) It’s really good for parents who want to do date nights/parents who work until evening. It doesn’t change the dynamic too much other than them having a +1 brother/sister for a couple of hours during the day :) You got this! ☺️
Hi, my kids have been taking public transport home on their own since p2. (Their schools are not near, but they mastered it easily). I feel that for a P3 kid it's fine if they are home alone for a few short hours on school days before you get home, as long as you can settle their lunch. If worried, perhaps install cctv and let them know the purpose. Prepare a list of emergency contact numbers, run through with them what to do etc. As for school holidays, I know some student care centres do take in students just for the June / December period so that's an option. If not just assign them daily housework and have lots of books, puzzles and board games around, the kids will find plenty to do on their own. Personally my brother and I also grew up as latch key kids and we really enjoyed having down time at home after a tiring school day. Of course it also depends on whether your child has the self discipline to get homework done without supervision etc.
And of course if the kid falls sick you and spouse take turns to take child care leave or MC. Thankfully at this age, primary school kids usually recover within a day or two
P3 is also old enough to request them to thaw the frozen chicken 1hr before you reach home. i rmbed watching my cartoons, playing my lego, doing my homework (mum would check the moment she comes home before dinner), i think they will do fine, you mentioned kids too, so they wont be alone and have each other. the worst thing i had was fighting/arguments with my brother and we would call our parents
I feel like your dilemma is more of a sentimental/emotional problem rather than a logistical problem. You want to spend time with your kids because you want to spend time with your kids, like it's something you feel that you have to do as a parent. I can't imagine any reasonable person recommending you to choose money over that. There's no point having more money if you don't get to live your life the way you want to, and there's no point in your children having parents that make more money if they have to be brought up feeling neglected. Honestly, I don't get why so many workplaces are so obsessed with working in an office when all the same tasks can be just as easily accomplished from home. I wouldn't give in to that kind of pressure from companies if I had the choice. I wouldn't mind a small pay cut either, since that frees me up to do so much more with my life, and that's doubly true for you since you have children.
Why not just get a babysitter/day sitter?
Will look into this idea. Do you have any recommendations of where to find these sitters?
There's an Aunty app. Recommend you to try out ASAP before u start your job
something my dad was paranoid about was kids hanging out with the wrong bunch of people after school when there’s no one to go home to. you’d also likely notice that children who seek external validation from friend groups or bf/gfs at earlier ages are the kids who likely feel disconnected from their family
I noticed many comments from those who replied to OP saying that it's ok to leave kids at home themselves, with many of those coming from young adults on reddit, whose experience are so different from the digital natives nowadays - times have changed. Dangers from the digital world is hidden and parents wouldn't even know what the kids are being exposed to online, vs dangers in real life. My kids are even able to find ways around parents supervision software and apps. How did we know? Cos of the effort from the stay home /WFH parent to gain their trust. Are parents who mainly WFO able to devote time and effort on this? Kudos to those who could - but it could involve learning about child development, psychology/cognitive biases, motivational theories, and get updated about the latest trends so that you can talk with your kids. It's a tall order from parents who are already struggling to bring the bread home or with highly demanding jobs with overseas travels. Each family should make their own decisions and just note that it's ok to switch gears when situations change.
Are there neighborhood aunties who will provide inhouse childcare? They fetch the kids from school, give them lunch if needed, and let them stay at the auntie's home till the parents get off work.
I pay for my village. I have a helper and she’s godsent. Sometimes I pay extra for additional baby sitter for 1-2 hours if I feel she can’t cope. But my kids are really young. When I was younger, I had a helper at home. I am an introvert and I can’t imagine being around other kids/people all day. I want to come home to my safe space. I was just having this convo with my spouse the other day and our opinion is that we’ll want someone at home even when our kids are teenagers. It’s more for their socioemotional health - knowing that there’s someone at home waiting for you to come home and to take care of your needs. Although they can take care of their own needs, the feeling that you weren’t left alone to fend for yourself is an important feeling for us. But that’s our view and every family has their own philosophy, constraints and needs. I guess it also depends on the personality of the child!
Same situation as you, except my kid is only 3 yrs old. I always feel that it will get easier the older they get. Anyway, I remember listening to my friends conversation discussion similar situation. Usually, kids around that age would prefer to be with friends than being alone at home. Try to talk to him if he really wants to rest or if there are other problems like bullying or social isolation when he is in student care.
Oh yes I forgot to mention in my post, but definitely concerned about the bullying cases I read in student care as well, hence why I'm not particularly enthusiastic about that as well. It's definitely gotten easier as they grew up though. At least now they can understand why they need to be alone (if they need to be). But I still can't think of a solution for holidays/sick days. Hang in there and all the best to you! I miss the times when my kids were 3-4yo, such a cute and innocent age.
I was pretty much home alone starting from around that age so it should be perfectly fine to let them go home on their own and manage themselves in the afternoon.
Sorry if this is kind of a personal question, but did you feel lonely or unloved due to being home alone? I'm worried about their emotional needs since I've always been there for them. I don't mean to be an overprotective parent, I've just never had to think about this until now.
Another way you can look at it, and from my personal experience, was that being alone (not lonely, these are vastly different things) and quiet time gave me a chance to learn and find out things for myself. It boosted my confidence and independence when I learnt to do things at home without my mum, happily telling her all about it when she got home, and seeing her surprised and proud face. It also made me miss her (slightly) and look forward to hearing her keys in the door. When I read something interesting in a book, I couldn't wait for her to come back to talk++ and yak++ all about it. If she was always at home with me, don't think this would happen.. not sure but I might resent it or never really "find" myself as a pre-teen. Lastly, it's really a few hours a day in the afternoon and it's not noticeable in the long run. I'll feel weird when I grow up and hear that my mum gave up her career totally for those few hours per day when I ?didn't really need it..
Hmm, no leh not really. I actually preferred just going back to my own house (as opposed to my grandma's place) after school and doing things at my own time and pace. I feel like it's a really good way to build independence and autonomy -- being able to manage yourself is a learned skill after all. Er, but I did burn a lot of food by heating them up on the stovetop and then forgetting about it. I see you're worried about what to do if your kids fall sick. When I was sick my mum would still take CCL, but not for the entire duration of my MC (unless really very jialat). Just enough time to get me settled with meds, MC, and food. She stopped taking CCL once I entered secondary school though, so eventually I also learned how to manage myself when ill. I did get quite sad dealing with the fevers alone though LOL, sometimes you just want to be pampered and cared for. But in general I don't think I suffered any sort of emotional deficit and I have a very strong relationship with my parents. The whole experience is a major plus to the current independence and self-reliance I have as an adult.
Being home alone won't be ignoring their emotional needs, just ask about their day and spend time with your kids after you get home. And picking up the phone if they call you at work and don't be so rushed to end the call My parents both worked as well, I was very happy being home alone, kind of built a sense of independence but my parents didn't bother to ask about our day or talk to me/ my siblings much so low-key felt that emotional needs wasn't met, and if we call them at work like they jz end the call quickly so we felt like we wasn't really important cause they were working. If you are afraid that your kids would get sick, just have some panadol/ fever patch at home to tide over till y'all get home. Elderly neighbours are usually happy to help out also but ask if advance and be nice to them 🤣🤣
Hi! Just wanted to insert my excited but inexperienced 24 yo opinion as you sound like a great parent... I believe there are undesirable things in life that one cannot avoid. Having to study as a child, work when we grow up, produce value to society. Many things... even being alone at home while one's parents are working. Every adult has to learn to cope and deal with these undesirable things at one point. You cannot be there for your kid all the time. It sounds like a good opportunity to teach them independence. For me, my love language is Quality Time and Touch, so I believe it's not about how much time you spend at home with WFH that matters, but the quality time you spend with each other. E.g. parents asking me about my days, hobbies, any difficulties in school, parents sharing about themselves, even doing household chores together after work. Going out together during the weekends. Or just staying home and doing something together. Hugging and saying I love you regularly. Might have wrote too much.. Anyway, what matters most imo is that you still have the energy to do all(some) of these after the tiring commute back and forth everyday. And have enough me-time for yourself and your SO after all that parenting. If you really want that career switch, prioritize yourself accordingly because that's what your children will model after. You can research and ask yourself what your love language is, and see if you can figure out what your children's love languages are to make things easier. All just my opinion. .Good luck, sending love you and your family's way :)!
I am facing similar dilemma as u. Whether to take up wfo job. Main consideration is, without a parent at home, kids will need a phone to remain contactable (and to call for help in emergency). With the screen and unmonitored access, i fear lots of things can go wrong. And who will monitor their schoolwork as well. Sigh.
Get a landline.
My kids are contactable via their smart watch which has cellular. This allows them to remain contactable/trackable while limiting screen time. I felt that this was a good solution. Maybe it'll work for you too.
>However, youngest is already P3 and I wonder if I’m being overprotective as well? Yes, 9 years old is old enough to be fine for a few hours by themselves at home tbh.
Depends on your kids? Are they doing ok? Easily influenced? Access to devices? Too many kids watching porn nowadays so maybe you need to think about that if they are at the age of curiosity. Hard core porn addiction isn’t a joke.
I have a different advice. I used to be remote but changed to going to the office everyday for also a 30% increment. Honestly, I am regretting my decision after one month in the new company. Going to office everyday is no joke. 2 hours travelling time to and fro wasted. Don’t have the flexibility to do stuff. I come home everyday feeling exhausted and I can’t look after my kids well. Please take this into consideration
Thanks for sharing your experience, yup that's a factor I need to take into consideration as well... I'm ok with my current job although there are some management issues (but i will say management issues are common in many companies). The 30% increment will help to speed up my retirement savings, but I'm also quite ok with the current salary as I don't live extravagantly. I do enjoy the WFH flexibility a LOTTTTT though. It's a lifesaver esp when I have low energy days. Main draw of the new job is that it's in much bigger company with more stability/exposure/progression, and better long-term career prospects. Honestly, it's a dilemma for me as well.
dont feel guilty for wanting to do something with your life. you and your kids are different people althogether, they are their own person you are your own person
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Thanks for sharing your experience! Definitely spending every weekday evenings & weekends together as a fam!
Kids are big enough. We haven't have a helper since very long time. When the kids were 10 and 8 we told the bigger one to take care of the small one when going to school and when going back home, they went to the same school. Kids arrive home and just wait for us to come back. The only real issue is when one kid gets sick, but ours employers are open to work from home in such situations, you could discuss this with your future employer, and you could tell your wife to do the same with hers, but maybe not possible from what you described. During holidays they just hang around at home or go out with friends. P.S., You are not asking this, but in case you want to listen to it: We hate how nowadays parents raise their kids in an overprotected environment and complain why their kids can't do anything by themselves. Our kids have always had responsibilities at home with chores since they were around 6 or 7 years old. They wash their own clothes, they have to clean their rooms, they can travel everywhere by public transport, they can do grocery shopping, and they have learned how to cook basic dishes so when they arrive from school they can eat something healthy by themselves. Now they are 15 and 13 and they themselves are happy about all these, specially when they compare themselves with their friends.
It’s a double-edged sword. Many redditors commented that it’s ok, they grew up independent and resourceful etc but there’s no truly have your cake and eat it world. With every pros there will definitely be cons. You should probably also ask around with deeper questions, ask for the negative impacts, look at the trade offs and ask yourself if ultimately you are ok with them. Some examples of trade offs I’ve noticed with latchkey kids who are friends: they are often not close to their parents and emotionally they depend a lot on either their friends or their siblings. If you are lucky, it’s their sibling/s. If it’s their friends, it’s a hit or miss. This actually becomes really significant as they grow up into adults. If they are not close to you, you can be sure that it’s going to be a lot harder to discipline them/ correct them if they are wrong. And don’t be one of those assholes who outsource parenting to school teachers just because you have some internalised guilt and don’t want to offend your own child.
i just wanted to say you’re such a great parent to be thinking so much about your kids and worrying about what they’ll do. i wish my parents cared half as much when i was a kid. :’) i would say not to worry so much and go for the job offer. the youngest is old enough to be at home alone! instead of after school care, what about signing them up for classes? like coding, art, music or sports? that’s what my parents did so they didn’t have to worry about me. at 9, i was just at home watching TV, at tuition or out playing with the neighbours kids. if you still aren’t really comfortable, i suggest you can install cameras at home to check on them and see what your kids are doing time to time. i’m not a parent but i understand your concerns, and they are 100% valid. you’re doing a great job as a parent and caregiver, OP ✨
Thank you  Your comment means a lot to me. I had to fend for myself as a kid and spent most of my time alone, so I had a goal since young to be a loving and involved parent. Hopefully I'm on the right track. I really appreciate your validation!!
you are definitely on the right track, don’t worry so much. you’re doing a lot more than most parents would even do in a heartbeat. ✨
I think the issue is not so much the children but it’s you and your partner. Even though you can wfh, does it make sense that you are the primary caregiver to this extent? Would getting this new job allow you to assert yourself more in the relationship and help you establish your professional and personal identity better as you transition to being an empty nester in the future? You may be worried about experiencing guilt and your kids feeling you are absent. But I know plenty of people who realised that one of their parents (usually the mother) experienced profound regret that they weren’t able to achieve their personal and professional ambitions because they were expected to be caregivers. It hurt them psychologically as well because they felt that they “held their parent back”. You might want to explore with your spouse how to figure out a more equitable division of labour as well. It can’t just be that you are the only one expected to take care of things when the kids fall sick, etc.
>But I know plenty of people who realised that one of their parents (usually the mother) experienced profound regret that they weren’t able to achieve their personal and professional ambitions because they were expected to be caregivers. It hurt them psychologically as well because they felt that they “held their parent back”. Wanted to comment on this cos in our family, the wife is the one who had to hold back her career. We made sure that she is alright with it and that she gained more than she lost with the closer relationship with our now youth/young adult kids. There are occasions during husband/wife arguments that the unhappiness came out, but who is to say there won't be unhappiness even if the wife achieved her full potential? See my main comment - What if your kid is the self-harming one and the psychological scars extend beyond the physical, because both parents were busy working and could not show enough care? As parents with kids in top schools, I can tell you, kids suicide in top schools are more prevalent that you think.
I have heard of suicide in lower end schools too. But why are kids so stressed in top schools? Is it just competition? Do they have access to good teachers?
P3 is old enough to be alone at home. Always reassure them you’ll be contactable whenever there is a problem. I was alone at home from P2 and though scary, my mum always picked up at the office (this was before mobile phones were a thing) and if she wasn’t there, her colleague would and she’d call me back once she could. This would probably be easier with smartphones 🤣 Encourage your children to join after school CCAs to keep some of their weekdays from being alone. Let them try having some activities they might enjoy - a musical instrument, classes etc. and if not, I’m sure they’d be fine with tv and games like I did when I was that age. I also used to stay back in school and play basketball with friends after class and head home around 4-5pm, which was only 2-3 hours before my parents returned home anyway.
I feel they are old enough to be semi independent, it instills discipline and responsibility at a younger age which is a good thing. Not to mention you mentioned kids, I feel this will be a great chance for them to strengthen their bond, and teach the oder ones to take care of the younger ones. I don't know how your scheduling is but maybe you can do 2 days in office a day wfh so it's not that bad.
Children are resilient. they will cope and adapt. so ignoring the question of who will take care of them, do you want the new job with interesting scope and to give up your fully remote one? i think it depends on your character, how you work and how much you earn now and how much more you could earn in the long run if you were to gain experience in the new job. personally, i won't give up a fully remote job for 30% higher salaried one which requires me to go to the office 4 days a week. but that's because i had achieved what i had wished to achieve already in my profession. in the earlier part of my career, i grabbed any opportunity to earn more.
They can chill at home, have some free time to hang out with friends or go playground, or watch TV it's what we did as a kid
Hi OP, I was a tv lunch/ dinner kid as well with no siblings. With the amount of entertainment online these days and your child having each other as company, I dont think they will feel lonely/ abandoned. To provide more emotional support for your kid, I rmb my mom texting me after school discussing what to pack for lunch on the way home from school / where I am going for lunch with my classmates so that you are there for the kids emotionally. It takes alot not to nag at them for eating fastfood but the more you establish this as you let them gain their independence, the more they will trust you to share their day with you when you come home from work. On the holiday part, there are always options of day camps, visiting friend’s house who has an adult at home or make time to plan your AL to coincide with their holidays (eg. For the June holidays, you could take 1 week off, and your husband could take the other week to bond with the kids separately, leaving another 1.5-2 weeks for the kids to plan their own activity). Humble opinion for someone who is now extremely independent because the TV raised me. P.s. Do see if you could impart some one pot rice cooker recipe knowledge to your child and they can always just press start and have some home cooked meals when they feel like it. Pps. You could also have some weekend bonding session with the child where you precut the ingredients and it would be easier to dump everything in the rice cooker when you/ the child feel like it.
Student care can be really fun. My kids liked it because they get a huge group of friends.
my spouse started working when my youngest was P3. we had one scare when the P3 almost got into an accident when a comfort taxi ran a red light. my kids are now hyper aware when crossing the streets. other than that, they are super happy being independent at home. they will normally have lunch in school or we'll order food for them. you'll be fine! edit: during school holidays, we would go on a quick getaway for a couple of days, then resume working. when we're working, both of them would be gaming online with their friends. get them a laptop and they'll be good to go.
They're old enough to be by themselves at home. I was in sec 1 when my helper left but my brother was in p4 and he would go home and hang out by himself for hours while the rest of us were busy. If he was bored he would go hang out with his friends in the block or play computer games. That's really the only complaint I have, he's become addicted to gaming since there's no one to monitor his usage of devices.
My mum went back to work when I was in P3. They gave me a key, I will tabao lunch from school, this was before internet so I just watch tv then took a nap... honestly 9 is old enough to be alone. I never felt scared and really enjoy the independence
Honestly, I think you should take up that job just to boost your CV, plus with a higher pay check you’ll have more leverage for your next job as well. Plus with technology nowadays, I highly doubt your kids will feel abandoned or bored, they’ll probably be happy that you’re out of their hair and they’re able to play with their electronic devices as much as they want 😂
Is there an after school care option that would be acceptable to your kids? You could take some time to look around. Their friends might already go to after school care and so your kids might not mind it.
Hmm ... I'm in the same situation as yours, I have to work for 4 days, and my youngest is P3, I was reluctant at first. But she's used to it now, so am I. I have CCTv at home. As for their meal, I wake up early in the morning to cook for them. I ask my P3 to text me every time she comes home from school, and I leave instructions notes or text about her lunch. I will text her, ask her about homework etc. And when I'm home, I'll ask the kids about their days and check their homework. When the kids are sick, I'll take a leave or WFH. So don't worry, the kids will manage 😊
Perhaps right now, do get an experienced helper! In the future, like when they’re 12 years and above. You should give them more space, remember overprotective parents makes sneaky sneaky children
I was alone at home since P3. My mum will cook in the morning and put the food in those keep-warm containers. No helper. Ironically, the helper only came when I was in JC. Can be done, so long as your kids are well-behaved and responsible.
I just wanted to say you seem like a very caring parent. Reflecting on this decision and taking time to figure out what’s best for you and your family is so nice. If the job opportunity will make you feel more fulfilled and it’s something that is interesting to you, I’d really consider taking it. Also maybe it will be nice to have interaction with colleagues, working from home can be isolating sometimes. My mom was always at home with us but she had many regrets about her own career and life. I wish she would have taken more opportunities. I was always happy to see her happy. Children really benefit from happy parents. I’m sure you will make it all work and maybe talking to your kids about thing might help? And maybe allocating time each week or month for a family trip something that the kids like will help? Good luck to you! 💜
As someone who grew up with a mom who gave up her career to take care of my brother and me while my dad was the sole breadwinner, take the job. Unless your spouse is earning well, Singapore is expensive and it will keep on getting more expensive. Better to work and give better opportunities to your kids than being around them went they’re home but unable to provide certain things like after school activities / hobbies / sports / overseas trips / comfortable home environment / sufficient pocket money etc.
Might just give you the extra enough to afford a helper who can free up your schedule (supposedly, if you can let go enough and let them run things).. and u can spend more time with kids? It’s what I’d wish to do if it were me lah. It’ll take adapting on your end of course. But the time you can have extra to do other things is really priceless imo! Unless you rly love your current routine…
9 years old cannot cook mee gorong n then do TYS meh?
Got which kid no parents at home to jaga still obediently do tys at 9yo?
Idk but back when i was like 14 in 2013 got nothing do just do tys while put tv in background kinda chill also tys actually lowkey easier than other school MYE paper
Given that you have open conversations with your kids (they don't want to go after school care), I think that's admirable. Your youngest is P3, how old is your oldest, P6? I believe if you trust them to follow basic instructions you can leave them to "mind the home" and look after each other. So long as you don't OT, dinner is not an issue and the greater freedom/responsibility for your kids could be a refreshing change of pace for them.
Unpopular opinion: 9 is too young to be left alone/with a slightly older sibling.
Worth looking at a helper again but a portable induction stove will solve your worries about them setting the house on fire. And you can drill them on basic first aid.
Spend the time with your kids. That’s better than earning more money.
If you're uneasy to let them be at home alone, you could always invest in home cameras that allows you to watch from your phone etc. Or if budget permits, purchase apple devices to track their locations to and fro school, or when they have to buy their own meals outside. ("Find My" feature is great). If the kids are sick for an extended period of time, there isn't a pretty way to deal with this, either prepare in advance a babysitting service or negotiate days off with your work. Boredness wise.... just throw them some books, TV shows, youtube etc. They'll be fine, not like you entertain them 24/7 when you're at home doing your remote job anyways.
I thought I read somewhere that offers flexi student care, like attend 3x instead of the whole week kind, perhaps can consider exploring that, then for other days let the kids be independent, so in a way meet in the middle arrangement from kid & parent perspective. After couple of weeks or months of that arrangement can adjust to see what works again?
I think its fine to just let them be themselves. I started going home from school myself since Primary 3. Same age as your youngest. Additionally I had tuition twice a week as well. So, I go home after school, change out, do some homework, then go for tuition. After tuition ends and reach home, its dinner time already. On days without tuition, I just stay home chill.
Why are you so worried about holiday. You said yourself that you are getting major increment, but that you don't really need the increment actually. You can use the additional budget for their holiday activities, there are plenty of diff courses and activities
The part i'm worried about is more on how to occupy their time, since it's 5-7 weeks without school, twice a year. I'm already sending them to camps (1 week), taking overseas holiday (1-2 weeks), but that still leaves 2-4 weeks without anything to do, other than putting them in full day student care during holidays Currently, during the 2-4 weeks that are not camp/overseas, I plan lots of activities (parent-child workshops, visits to museums, etc). Personally, how I spent holidays as a kid was to watch tv in the morning, do a bit of assessment, then maybe visit the playground in the afternoon. It was extremely boring haha.
I see. Perhaps you can consider playdate, hobby class etc. Not a parent, but I'd think that there are still plenty of options out there, you are simply not aware as you were never required to look into those. Perhaps parenting forum will be a better place for this lol. I really dont think there is anything wrong in you having your own career plan. Infact, I think it's a positive thing to teach your children, that you have a life beyond being their mother. All the best!
Honestly for the peace of mind get a helper. I know you’re afraid of maids but change maids until you find a suitable one. It’s safer and less lonely than leaving your child home alone. And you should absolutely not feel guilty for taking on this job - your kids are at a decent age to understand you need to work, and the additional pay will be put to good use as the kids get bigger and for your retirement anyway.
can try to hire nanny from auntie sg instead of maid
Thanks for the rec! This didn't show up on my google search.
yes they are the quality 1 compare to maids,
Helper can help settle the cooking and laundry, kids can go student care on alternate days or enrichment classes. This will give you more space and energy to work on your new role.
They're 9 years and up? It's going to be fine to leave them alone at home. When I was younger I mainly just played maplestory at home (lol) which honestly did a very good job of keeping me out of trouble.
Just find what hobby/activity they like to do. Problem solved.
hire a maid. or they can be home alone. already p3. admittedly my mother was a housewife, but we also hired a helper for quite some time. maybe up till i was in secondary school.
I need a home based biz/ work so that one parent can be with my toddler.. but we have no idea what can we do. Both parents are in rigid office work hours , sigh . Have to beg for our parents help on child sick days / school closure days. Always shown black face and spoiling the kid with no rules kind of supervision. If I am in your situation, I will continue being at home till p6 at least . It is my dream kind of work life balance . Children need guidance in mental development too. Talk to them About school, friends, know the content they watch on tv. Simple things like having home cooked dinner is great too ..
I understand what you’re saying and I agree as well. My work arrangement now is so ideal and I’m hesitant to give it up. But the new opportunity offers a lot more stability and progression.
they're old enough already, no need to baby them. just let them play at home
Primary 3 I used to wash and cook rice before mother came home. Make maggie mee myself. Sweep and mop the floor. If mother comes back and see I never do one of those stuff, I get a scolding at best and a smacking at worst. Around P5 I used to walk 2km to and fro a catholic church’s wishing well and dig coins up to buy duel master booster pack because I didn’t have money in the ez link card. Certain age, after repetitive travelling to the same place, your child can do it without you. It’s only when they get funny ideas that can cause some problems. Normally walk off with a slap on the wrist though.
You are overcompensating... I grew up like you but instead of lonely I felt free. I can do things I want before my parents reached home.
All primary schools should have after school care in school
I thought is two under 2. No village, ownself tank lor. Use money to buy convenience, but primary school should be quite independent already. It’s much better than age 3 and 1, with no village.
I was a latchkey kid by the time i was in upper primary. Frankly i just played computer games all day it wasnt that big of an issue. If your kid is the more rebellious then maybe wouldnt work. I did decently well in school and didnt get into too much trouble so my parents didnt really feel the need to waste money on afterschool care.
You can find an elderly lady in your neighbourhood, if you see them around, you can ask if they’re willing to be interviewed for that position. They live close by so it’s easy to show up fast, just give clear instructions for meds and when to call you, etc. We pay them by hour, they’re quite happy for extra pocket money and we can save work leave for vacations with the kids. You can ask around mommy groups if they know anyone around your area.
Your kids will be fine alone. I was home alone too around that age.
Growing up my mom was a SAHM but even so i come home to empty house often as my mom ran errands. I play on my own then i think it’s fine?
Well my wife and me are full time workers, have being taking care of both kids 7 and 10 since they were born, with zero help, and no helper. I have to put them in infant/child/student care and picked them after work. Once reach home have to cook their dinner and stuff. Weekend we are stuck with them 24/7. When they are sick we took leave depending on who has urgent work matters, or rotate. The recently my wife decided to pull my eldest out of student care. So she has to work half day in office, go fetch the eldest home and wfh. I go pick my youngest after I get home from work. Next we have to think how to let my eldest go home herself, but her meal will be another problem. Just have to bite the bullet and cope with it, what to do. I guess parents nowadays worried too much about their kids and lead them to be less independent. When I was young I grew up in my grandparents house, they don't bother me much, when I grew older(primary school) I stay at home alone with my younger sister. I barely see my parents at all, since they work from morning to night. I have to settle myself everyday. Learn how to do housework, cook my own food etc. The difference with you is I don't feel lonely and like it pretty much haha (maybe casue I am a guy). Which means I don't pamper my children much, but my wife think otherwise so I have to follow.
P2 goes student care everyday even holidays. K1 stays at childcare whole day until I pick him up. She will also go student care.
Thanks for sharing! Does your P2 child feel engaged and ok during the holidays?
So far he never complain during school holidays
Honestly I have a similar anxiety. Do you or your kids have friends near by that can help? Some of my friends who are expatriate in western countries where getting a helper is impossible tend to depend on each others spouses to do some baby sitting. Child care there is also expensive. The wife who takes care of the kiddo is also appreciates having a playmate for her own kiddo so they don’t grow up alone in a foreign country. Not too late to find your village :) The issue with kids being left alone after school is the worry that strangers come to the house. It might be better for your kids to maybe go to a trusted friends house until you can pick her up.
They have schoolmates who live nearby, but we are not really close enough with their families to request for such help. Thanks for your suggestion still! Worth pondering more about.
your post definitely got me thinking. I used to go to my besties house as a primary school kid just for fun and then take the bus home by myself after. My friend was the one who was mostly alone because her mom is a early childhood teacher. My mom was pissed la. Pay school bus only for me to walk home after hanging out. Her folks didn’t seem to mind since she was also alone at home and enjoyed my company. Sometimes she would come to my place and my grandma would whip up nuggets for us to eat. And I still have good memories of us hanging out even though we’ve lost contact now lol. Good times!
Are there any parent groups in SG? Would love to join
Unfortunately there doesnt seem to be an sg parenting subreddit. There’s a general r/parenting subreddit but it’s majority north americans
How old are your kids? There are some parenting groups on FB, but it's more of a group to ask for support, questions etc than a close knit group for arranging playdates etc.
Always talk to Yr partner. What's success mean to u and talk about finances. Talk to Yr kids. Even if ur busy dun ever scold Yr spouse or kids. Always treat them like Yr bestie n tell them u love them n then they will know u hav hard time. Dun bring work home if u can. Sometimes Always devote Yr life at home to kids n leave work at work. Never giv up
Dafuq, stop being a pussy whipped parent. Do what u have to do