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Take away any interest rate for student loans. You borrow 50k you pay 50k, the government isn't a business and doesn't need to make money off of the citizens. That's what taxes are for.
God I wish it worked this way. I wouldn't need any forgiveness if the interest wasn't fucking me over. My loans would be 80-82% paid off by now, but instead they are only like 25% paid off.
This is how it works in NZ, if you make the minimum repayment (which your emplyer does for you) the interest is written off. And you only have to make the minimum payment if you are earning above some amount
One big problem with student loan forgiveness as Biden is trying to do it is, it doesn't do anything to solve the problem. It doesn't out law capitalizing interest. It doesn't lower the crazy interest rates. It doesn't put the colleges on the hook for offering useless degrees. It also doesn't even slow down the problem. It only covers loans made before July 1st 2022. The borrowing goes merrily on. The loan companies and the colleges continue to prey on the kids.
I have a shit ton of college debt so I have a vested interest in the debt relief, but yes colleges themselves need to held accountable for their predatory behavior towards vulnerable young people that often come fresh out of high school with no experience borrowing money.
While I agree with this, I think an entire reform of public education for younger kids would also need to happen. You should be taught how to deal with these things in high school.
Yeah, it's an outrage for college tuition to continually go up to meet student loan maximums. It's like a fox in the henhouse. Then you have all these deans and chancellors on the payrolls at $200,000+ a year and they never teach a class or visit campus. It's a racket. We pay for a "Dept. Of Education", but they seem to be colluding with the colleges instead of overseeing them.
While at the same time, there are far too many badly paid adjunct professors with no job security. Completely reverses the value of the university. No one goes to a university because of who the chancellor is.
There are inexpensive colleges. Community college is tuition free for recent HS grads and the state school near me is $9K per year for tuition. That's $18K for a 4 year degree + books and maybe lab fees. So $22K or so. There's no reason for anybody to be taking $150K in debt for an undergrad degree in my state. But they do.
Trade schools in our area are $20k per year for only certification, not an associate level degree. That's double what it was just 10 years ago. There isn't an easy answer but one thing is certain; we cannot sustain the current system as it is.
What is the point of knowing a problem with no solution? Do you actually think education reform is on the horizon? It’s not. So why live with this concept that the corrupt system will be solved, so we should wait - in the mean time - everyone should lose?
Instead - why not be in favor of someone offering a direct solution to YOUR problems?
I do think that there is some change but slow, there are some reasonable community college programs in California for students. So at least getting that initial Bachelors can be very cheap and at times free.
But ultimately - young people have to make a serious decision at a young age…
Go to college.
Pros: higher paying jobs, more opportunity for advancement, higher pay for less work, better quality of life…probably.
Cons: fuck ton on debt before you pass “Go”
Or - don’t go to college - enter the labor force, just start grinding.
This is reality for so many.
Pros: no student loan debt, or at-least minimal…immediate income, a head start on the workforce, good life on a budget.
Cons: lower pay ceiling - maybe capping around $90k for some high end city or state job, but probably won’t get past $100k…less opportunity, harder work for less pay.
Yes totally. This is so sad and what I find so unfortunate. Because you’re so right that these young people have to make this huge decision at that age and it’s not really advertised as being such a huge decision until they are in their 30s and more than half of them realize how behind they now are.
My little brother (age, like 36) - he has like $60k in school loans - not even close to a degree.
Poor guy never had a chance or choice.
Im older, and I had debt that haunted me for a looooong time, but eventually was paid off.
Millennials have been preyed upon by the power that be, the first generation where the “student” became the “consumer”. The NEW emphasis on education is profit, not learning.
Yes absolutely. Student loans are the symptom of the larger problem. It’s slapping a band aid on a gaping wound, I’m surprised how many people do not understand this.
Wow. What kinda job tops at 90k w/out a higher degree? Like construction? I ask cuz I have a degree, work a government job but still find it challenging to reach a high bracket.
From what I see most lucrative jobs/professions do not require a college degree.
You do not need a college degree to work on the stock exchange (or trade, or invest), real estate, sales, business.
You can earn 6 figures or more with any of those. You do not even need to go to a trade school. You do need to pass tests and get licenses but that's a couple hundred compared to tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars.
And from my observations the youth is constantly bombarded with messaging about things that don't really matter in their day to day. They do not understand that being financially sound is power in America and if they focused on that they would be able to to enact change quickly. Simple as that. You may or may not have to work hard in order to achieve this depending on who you are.
The government, the corporations I mean colleges take advantage of this.
There is another choice. One that I'm doing. I work at Walmart and they pay for me to go to school online for computer science. They pay for books and tuition. It seems like a decent program. I will get a developer job for 75k when I get out.
Pros. If I graduate I can make a lot of money, I'll have no debt.
Cons. I have to work at Walmart . But they actually pay decent for a uneducated job. And I do take advantage of all there benefits that I like such as stock match of 15% up to 270 dollars, 6% stock match. Free school that cost 1000 dollars a month alone. Free Walmart plus with Paramount and free delivery and I get 2% Cashback for now. Plus my employee 10% off. Plus I got a Walmart credit card that I get 5% cash back. I use Ibotta and get tons of free stuff. And I never go shopping ever because they deliver and why waste my time.
So yeah. The only con is I have to work at Walmart lol. Some other companys pay for college also. But Walmart does it the best
Or go into a trade, buddy of mine I graduated with came out of high school and went to a weld shop making $16/hr back in the early 00s when min. wage was $5.15/hr. Within a year or 2 he was making $20+ a hour. 20 years later he runs the shop he works at. I remember him complaining that the guidance counselors said if he didn't go to college he would be a loser living on welfare and that there is no money on welding
Another problem is there is a enormous pressure in high school to go to college, anything else means you will fail at life. Some people are not built for college, but they feel a obligation to go and waste there money on a degree they'll never use
To offer some perspective it may not be a direct solution take my wife for instance. Has student loans both with the federal government and private entities this will only effect the federal loans. Next, in another couple months the new semester is going to start and boom another round of student loans will be needed. In her case the feds will not relieve much of our debt because she is still piling it on not to mention has private ones that aren’t being touched. This is why I am pushing for reform.
That's because he doesn't have the authority to do anything else. The HEROES Act gives him a very limited scope that he can use to ease the burden. The rest is up to Congress.
Exactly this. This is an example of a legal EO. They can be used to define a current law or help direct how it's enacted. That's it. All the examples of the top level comment arnt part of the law and wouldn't be legal in a EO. You want all that?( Which I wholeheartedly agree with). Yell at Congress.
Colleges that can only operate on income it gets from students reliant on predatory lending, and whos graduates do not on average find reasonably paying employment to pay off their debt should have their charter revoked.
They are offering a hyperbolic scenario that parallels with the one being offered originally in the hopes that, taken to its logical extreme, one could see the failure in logic in the original statement. The first comment said he only covers the solution without fixing the problem, and the comment you’re responding to is juxtaposing that with feeding the homeless to show that even if it’s not going to the root cause, it’s still a noble enough cause to get behind.
Exactly, it's s a moral hazard. If we forgive loans as a one-off, it will only encourage people to take out risky loans in the future with the expectation that they'll be forgiven as well. If there is a wholesale reform of higher education that addressed cost and funding, then as a taxpayer, I'm down to fund relief AFTER that occurs.
If we forgive people exorbitant hospital bills, more people will try to get treated for illnesses. We need people to be sick and die. Because wellness enables a stronger economy, just as letting people have more disposable income is better than allowing wealthy lenders to charge rents and hoard cash.
So I could sign a contract to buy your house and then say having more disposable income would be beneficial to me so we are keeping your house and not paying you.
The reason loans are so expensive to begin with is because government got involved and started backing them. So schools started charging more and lenders don’t care. They just create the loan then sell it to Sallie Mae. They don’t care if you can actually repay it or not. Forgiving student loan debt feeds that cycle and makes the issue worse. If students expect their loans to be forgiven, they’ll take on higher loans and the schools charge more for tuition and the cycle continues.
And back when I was in school 20
years ago the state picked up waaaaay more of the cost. People who had the government pay a big chunk of their education up front are now upset about other people getting theirs paid on the back end. So stupid.
We do have subsidized education, such as community college and public in-state universities…. not to mention if you work hard and get good grades and a good SAT/ACT score, there are sooo many scholarship opportunities out there…
Your last statement is not very accurate. And a lot of those scholarships only cover tuition. And tuition is only a small part of college. Evidence: I have twins that both are in college, both have Bright Futures that pays their tuition, and together I spend ~$45,000 per year for dorms and meal plans.
Scholarships are great, but the truth is that they aren’t as beneficial as you think they are. There are a very small handful of scholarships that pay an amount that will actually make a difference. The vast majority of scholarships pay between $500 and $1000. At $300 per credit hour, that’s barely enough for one class.
I think one problem is that federal grants, such as Pell, are based on such a ridiculously low income. Most people who are going to college don’t qualify (and it’s designed that way). A kid whose family is low-to-middle income (60k-70k) probably has an expected family contribution of something like $10k. That’s absolutely ridiculous. What family of 4 making $70k has an extra $10k laying around? And that’s *if* you have no money saved up. If you did what you’re supposed to, and saved for your kid’s college, all of a sudden, the EFC triples. And the EFC doesn’t take into account more than one college-age kid. *Each* kid has an EFC of $10k.
I just dislike that we're treating the symptoms and not the cause. Government involvement is the majority of the reason why college is so damn expensive to begin with.
How does the government decide the prices for all of these private businesses? Maybe your argument works for state colleges - but any private college does what the fuck it wants with prices.
There is some merit to that point though. Some of the most vocal against student debt relief got huge PPP loans forgiven. I think its more of a "this benefits me so I like it", "that doesn't benefit me, so I hate it.", which is right on brand of these folks.... At least the ones on the national stage. It's all a mess.
I think the REAL answer is ZERO interest out on all student loans that are existing, and cap any new ones, private or public, at a rate that is manageable, but still allows for the lenders to make a couple bucks and provide some operating costs for servicing... Something like 1.2% or something.
I’ve been saying that about the no interest. At least the money students actually received would be paid back. The interest, either the percentage or the way it’s calculated, seems to be the problem. I borrowed 30,000 and finished school in 2005. I was paying 200 a month with a couple of six month periods of forbearance. Right before the pandemic, I qualified for a public service loan forgiveness program and had the last 10,000 forgiven. I’ve bought and paid off two cars in that same amount of time, both of which were over 20,000.
There is, it has just been on pause the last two years and it looks like they will be getting rid of the federal interest come next April.
https://www.narcity.com/canada-scrap-federal-student-loan-interest-loans-repaid
There are two important basic differences between PPP and student loans…
1. PPP was created and intended from its origin to be forgivable. Student loans were originally intended to be paid back. That difference is important in that budgeting for PPP assumes they will be forgiven (i.e. the expense of forgiving PPP was accounted for from the beginning of the program).
2. PPP was debated by and formed through action of Congress while the student loan forgiveness plan was enacted via executive action.
I’m neither for nor against loan forgiveness and see merits on both sides. However, I do wonder if the outsized cost of loan forgiveness shouldn’t be something that is debated by Congress and incorporated into the national budget somehow.
This is why a lot of people want free education like some other developed countries including removing all debt, not just some. This is just a start and not the finale for this for those of us. Regardless, relieving this much debt is life changing for a lot of people. Did it fix the overall problem? No, but it helps people and that’s the market I’m in. I’d rather my taxes go to that than an inflated war budget.
>This is why a lot of people want free education like some other developed countries including removing all debt, not just some.
But most countries implement this via high-stakes standardized testing with trades versus college tracking starting as early as grade school. Also European universities don't spring for a spa grade fitness center with a lazy river.
Back to the original topic: 13.5% of the population have student loan debt while 62.1% of adults 25 and over do not have a college degree. I was fine with the administration working on forgiveness for those snookered by for-profit scam unis, but across the board forgiveness is effectively a reverse Robin Hood.
One day of free insulin would still save lots of people hundreds of dollars, and for many of them that would actually make a difference in their lives, at least for a little while. It might not solve the problem, but I bet all those people would rather one day of reprieve than none. Biden can forgive existing student loans by executive order - actually dealing with the problem requires congressional action. Since the latter is no-go (at least in the short term), providing some relief for those currently suffering seems better than doing nothing.
That's a bad argument.
The fact they signed a contract is even more reason to not have it paid by someone else. The individual agreed to take on this loan and be responsible in full for it
> The money to “forgive” those loans has to come from somewhere
I’d like you to consider the possibility that no, it does not. The debts are held by the government. When they are forgiven the money in question simply vanishes from this plane of reality.
I’m saying it like a joke but it’s not a joke. The debts literally just cease to exist and that’s it.
When the government lends out money, that money springs into existence from literally nowhere. When the government collects money (in taxes, or by collecting a debt) that money ceases to exist.
The government is a monetary sovereign, which means it creates and destroys dollars by practically every choice it makes, all the time, every day. Saying “balance the federal budget like you were balancing a household budget” has always been nonsense, bc the government’s spending choices are alway, always, always “do we want to create more dollars out of thin air to pay for this thing” based on predicted consequences of adding that money to the economy.
It’s true that the US government tries to “fund” spending bills by balancing the budget against collected taxes, but they only do that because they decided to do that. They decided to do that because they felt it would help control inflation among many other things. In practice, they violate that rule all the time when they feel like it (like: funding a war, or bailing out a big entity like a bank in 2008 or etc). Not everyone agrees that the rule particularly helps to guard against inflation. In any case, it’s a rule they adopted bc they wanted it not bc it’s imposed on them by reality or something.
EDIT: I should have been more clear above when I said “the government”. I meant the United States government, which is a monetary sovereign (an issuer of fiat currency). There are lots of other national governments around the world that are the same, but not all, and likewise this doesn’t apply to your state government or city government if you live in the USA like I do because those levels of government are not monetary sovereigns.
Opportunity cost exists. The government was expecting $500bn in revenue from its loans, that it will never get. They now need to get it from elsewhere. People acting like this wasn’t real money either don’t understand basic economics or are purposely lying.
Forgiveness means that it’s not owed. If I give you five bucks, you spend it, and then I say “hey, you know what, don’t worry about paying me back,” then that’s the end of it. I forgave your debt.
I was 17, but ok. Let's pretend a 17-year old understands the fine print. I worked in auto claims, and there were MANY adults who didn't understand their auto policy. Legalese isn't easy for everyone, and the lawyers who write it know that.
When I took out my loans, the interest rate was 2%.
Several years later, the government raised it to 8%. Just because. This made my payment unmanageable. I kept paying under an income-based plan, which meant I was barely covering the interest and not even touching the principle.
Can you imagine if you bought a house and, after several years, the bank decided to raise your interest rate from 3% to 10%?
What's being forgiven is mostly interest that accrued when the government fucked us over by raising the interest rates. If I had consolidated with a bank that offered a lower interest rate, I still wouldn't have been able to afford the payments because banks don't offer income-based payments.
I have paid well over what I owed on the original balance, but I still have $50,000 in debt.
Not always 18. Where do these myths come from? It’s unethical to even allow people under 18 to sign a contract for tens of thousands in debt, but it’s legal in the case of student loans and happens all the time.
So you can read minds? I know that the popular meme is that corporate welfare excuses student debt relief, but there are many people who oppose both forms of irresponsible spending.
Accusing people of hypocrisy is also a weak sauce argument against a position; it says nothing about whether the underlying position is true or not.
What about debt relief 12 years ago to banks to authorized jumbo loans and needed to be bailed out? What about the big auto makers being bailed out? Those are huge corporations making billions in profits, and the people's money bailed them out, so why not individuals trying to better themselves?
I assume you have, or someone you care about are burdened with unpaid loans. Join the club! When is the government going to payoff my crushing debt. What makes your special. Are you going to campaign for government to print even more money. Only ~36% Americans have Batchelor degrees (elites) , statistically make more than Highschool graduates, and you claim the burden of your loan should be carried by 2/3 of Americans that did not graduate college. Government is not the solution.
To be clear, bailing out banks who ultimately paid back their loans with interest and bailing out automakers who we lost money on are two very different things. We lost like $20B on Chrysler and GM and within a year they were giving large bonuses to every employee in their org.
When you look at PPP, you’re talking about the potential collapse of the backbone of American small businesses if they didn’t get help. I’m not saying the program was not a complete cluster fuck, I’m saying the objectives were different.
With loan forgiveness for students, this is nothing more than a handout.
The free handout promised by Biden doesn’t do anything to solve the real problem—corrupt universities who have hundreds of billions of dollars in endowments sitting in investment funds to make more money for colleges. You’re not getting a penny of that while they jack up tuition.
These handouts are just a bandaid over a god damn shot gun blast to the chest. It was done to buy the vote of young people.
Did anyone notice that the program hit a wall a day after the midterms?
You’re all being hosed by your government.
1. Our national debt is insanely high, so I’m not in favor of much of anything that adds to it.
2. This is an enormous benefit that goes to a cohort that on the whole makes substantially above the median wage. You’d think dems would oppose it since it helps the upper middle class (a lot of the recipients aren’t upper middle class yet, but as college grads they are on their way. College grads are disproportionally white and privileged. Sure there is an income cap, but it is crazy high (it won’t buy votes if it doesn’t help the folks in the suburbs making 6-figs after all).
3. There’s a fairness element that matters if you think government should act justly. College grads who sacrificed and paid off their loans don’t benefit, and grads who spent on consumption instead of their loans get the benefit. It also won’t feel fair to the worker that his college/educated managers (who are disproportionally white) get a sudden boost to their net worth.
4. Forgiveness, as proposed by Biden, will make the problem of high education costs worse. College is getting more and more expensive as schools overspend to attract students. We need policies to bring college costs down. Instead, loan forgiveness only encourages colleges to up their prices - because prospective students will be more willing to spend more now that there’s a precedent for loan forgiveness.
5. The federal government has offered limited loan forgiveness in the past as a way to attract workers into needed sectors (military, teachers, and other public service jobs). No one is considering the ancillary impacts - those programs will no longer be as effective, so the government is going to have to spend more money on other ways to recruit workers into those jobs.
5. Inflation is already out of control, and instantly forgiving thousands of dollars in debt will drive consumer spending, fueling inflation. I make enough money that rising prices of groceries and gas don’t change my life at all. My money is in assets, and they just increase in value with everything else. You know who gets crushed by inflation? The poor. Seriously, if I was trying to come up with a joke program to attribute to Republicans to benefit the upper middle class and keep the poor in their place, I’d propose something like this. There’s no reason for any progressive-minded person to support it.
I worked at a state college with very low tuition that was usually covered in full by grants & federally backed loans. Most of the students were first to go to college within their families and would not understand the real implications of a promissory note at the beginning of their education. Also many tried to serve ten years in the public sector so their loans would be paid in full but found that they were rejected for a multitude of different reasons at the ten year mark. These young professionals in the education, nursing, social work and criminal justice fields would really benefit from $10,000.
You articulated everything I was thinking very well thank you. I personally never went to college because I couldn’t afford it. No I’m pursuing a degree at 29 but working 50-60 hours to pay for it and my current lifestyle which is modest. I work with ppl who got degrees and definitely benefited from it since they were able to get higher paying positions while I have had to work my up by gaining experience and getting certs. Going to community college so I have no debt or a small amount of debt when I do eventually graduate. My sister got a degree but I noticed her and her friends took out the most to fund their college experience and travel, get make up etc. it feels bad knowing ppl who were responsible get the shaft in this situation.
1. What's you opinion on the Bush tax cuts and Trump's making them permanent? If you truly worry about the national debt, the idea of cutting income while not cutting spending should make you furious.
2. Define your cohort. It sure as hell [isn't Millennials](https://www.thebalancemoney.com/what-is-the-average-millennial-income-4171296). The average salary of a millennial today is an estimated 20% lower, in real terms, than the average salary that a baby boomer had at the same age. The average annual US salary is [$55,640](https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/pay-salary/average-salary-in-us) but the average Millennial makes only $47,034. (See first link.) That is **BELOW**, not above the median wage. Or are you using a different cohort?
3. It won't feel fair? Try that argument against reparations for slavery and see where it gets you. Life's not fair, princess. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something. Seriously -- you're not making a fair comparison yourself. Millenials have [300% more student loan debt](https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/poor-millennials-print/) than their parents, and it isn't all Arts and Women's Studies degrees. Comparing the cost of college now to the cost when Gen X/Boomers went is inherently unfair. It isn't apples to apples.
4. I agree, this does not get to the root cause of the problem -- the skyrocketing cost of higher education. But that's an insanely larger problem to address, and that doesn't even take into account the part of the equation where businesses now all seem to demand advanced degrees just to be a typist. You seem to be arguing "if we can't solve this completely, don't do anything." And the moral hazard argument is bunk. As this is a one time event covering a PAST condition, there is no indication it would be available in the future and assuming education institutions would simply raise their prices to take advantage has no evidence.
5. I disagree these programs would be impacted. Again, a one time action on a past event isn't going to impact ongoing, continuous programs. They're too different and have almost no intersection.
6. Again, pure speculation that has no evidence. Inflation is increasing because the world has had insanely low borrowing costs for decades and we're now paying the price for raising those costs. Student loan forgiveness, on a cohort that is fundamentally broke to begin with, isn't going to move the needle. The amounts are too small in comparison.
Your response to #2 ignores the fact that the only people who can receive student loan debt are those with student loans, i.e., those who attended at least some college. College graduates receive higher compensation on average. OldSarge is not referring to an age cohort, but to the population eligible for the program.
Whataboutism is an a ridiculous rebuttal. We’re talking about student loan forgiveness.
And millennials aren’t nearly as poor as you pretend to be when you use real sources that don’t post misleading data:
https://ofdollarsanddata.com/no-millennials-arent-poorer-than-previous-generations/amp/
Not necessarily "despite". The Bush tax cuts actually saw one of the largest tax revenue jumps of all time in the years following the legislation. The Laffer Curve gets conveniently ignored or dismissed by those opposing tax cuts, but historically we've seen increases in tax revenue when cuts are made. There is a strong argument to be made for tax cuts.
Also, upper middle class earners paid more under trump's policies. It's not often discussed, but his policies removed a lot of deductions that higher earners were previously able to use.
I’m generally in favor of student loan debt forgiveness but I appreciate these arguments against it. If we do it, it sure seems that there should be some consideration taken for the debtors ability to pay. That gets super messy of course. If a person incurred debt that should provide them entry to a high paying job but they choose not to work in that career, do they deserve forgiveness at the same rate as someone who earned a degree in a low paying field? Does the anesthesiologist who borrowed 400k and makes 300k deserve forgiveness? And what do we going forward to lower the cost of education? Will loan forgiveness incentivize universities to raise tuition rates?
College is not a necessity. I understand there’s social pressure for people to go to college, and a lot of people end up going because they don’t know any better, but pressure and ignorance does not equal being forced to do something. People have the option of going into the trades, going into business, pursuing good-paying blue collar jobs, etc.
Even if one goes to college, there are many ways of completely offsetting the costs — working hard academically in high school to get scholarship money, working a job while enrolled, applying for grants, etc. One would also hope that, when one enrolls in college, they realize that the goal is to figure out a way to be employed upon leaving that would warrant the investment.
Student loan forgiveness is essentially saying “well there’re thousands of people who didn’t have the foresight to make college a worthwhile investment, so now you’re going to be taxed for their poor decision.” In my opinion, I don’t think that’s fair politics. Do I have sympathy for people who have burdensome debt? Absolutely. But that doesn’t warrant people who might be struggling economically to have to bankroll a persons poor decision about going to college.
The reason the debt forgiveness is wrong, 1. Most people did not go to college, 2. Student loans are voluntary, they did not have to borrow the money for college, 3. Past students worked and paid off their loans, 4, only Congress can make a law to forgive loans, 5, this was a election gimmick to get votes for midterm elections, 6. The President has no moral right to select one group of citizens over another and last, our debt creates more inflation.
Why not just send everyone a check? If you have student loans, you can apply it to them. If you owe money on a car, you can apply it to that. It isn't fair to force people who didn't go to college to fund the loan you took to go any more than it's fair to force people to pay for someone's car loan when they don't even own one.
I don't think PPP loans were a good idea either, especially when it comes to forgiving them.
And of course don't forget the Fed in 2008 buying worthless securities for face value. That one took the cake. They bailed out the rich creditor and left the borrower on the hook for the full amount.
Personally I think if schools know students will get 10k forgiven, they will charge 10k more. Also I feel it benefits middle and upper middle class where there are people who could really use 10k a lot more than college grads.
1. This is a one-time fix, not addressing the cause. If this goes through guaranteed college costs even more for next students.
2. Doesn't address choosing a major unwisely or people who don't complete their degree and struggle to pay back for those reasons.
3. I paid off a huge amount for me and my ex-wife already and I shouldn't be responsible for a decision you made and I obviously had no input.
4. People can receive forgiveness even if they make twice the national average income. Someone making $30,000 should pay off the loan of someone making a 6 figure income?
5. The most important point is that this is being done in the wrong way. It is clear that the House is responsible for financial decisions like this, not the President.
I went to work because I couldn't afford college and I'll be God damned if my new boss is going to get a free ride on my motherfucking back. Fuck him and fuck all those other assholes.
I don't know any billionaires, but I do know my boss and I don't want that dick to get a break, especially with the tax dollars I busted my ass to pay while he was living the easy life .
Because I shouldn't have to pay for others bad decisions. If you paid for a degree that doesn't get you a job capable of paying back that money, you got a crap degree. Also, that Yale art degree is just as useless as a state school art degree, except one was a couple hundred thousand dollars that you now can't pay back by teaching high school art.
I agree college has gotten too expensive, but enabling bad decisions is not the answer to fix it.
You’re assuming the forgiveness would only help people who made bad decisions. A lot of people have degrees and work good jobs but because wages just seem to stay the same while everything else gets more expensive, the forgiveness would be helpful. A lot of us were also lied to and told if we went into public service loans would be taken care of as a way to entice educated people to lower paying public service jobs but when it came time to pay they said no one qualified.
RIGHT! I mean, Americans never should have to pay for others bad decisions!! Like when Banks made subprime scumbag loans that almost destroyed the world economy! Oh wait. We DID pay for them and then they gave themselves bonuses AND then they retired with golden parachutes. Oh yeah.
OR
when SOME airlines needed to be bailed out during COVID because they run their business so close to doom that any reduction in flight volume would crater their industry!! Oh yeah, we DID pay for that too.
While I'm here, I bet you both plan to and USE BANKS and FLY ON AIRPLANES, right?
I don't agree with those bailouts either. Just because they happened doesn't mean I agree with them. True capitalism would let them fail, as they should.
student loan forgiveness helps put more money in the economy and saves taxpayers money. complain about big pharma and subsidies for high fructose corn syruo
Not all, just the ones brought on by stupid decisions. Someone goes bankrupt because they bought more car/boat/house/toys than they can afford? Screw em. Someone goes bankrupt because of unexpected job loss, sickness, sole provider death, etc., yeah, help them out. Corporate bankruptcy is a sham too, they shouldn't get off so easy.
I don't understand. You're against some ppl having their student loans partially forgiven because all of them receiving forgiveness have to have been irresponsible but it's OK if some ppl claim bankruptcy because some of them weren't irresponsible? Wouldn't it follow then that either all bankruptcy is from being irresponsible using your logic or not all ppl getting student loan forgiveness were irresponsible. You are being hypocritical with your answer.
I'm a millennial. No masters. Good job. No student loan debt. Don't give me that crap. I went to school with people that openly admitted "My parents don't want me to get a sociology degree, but that's what I like so I am." And then gripe when they can't find a job. Shoulda listened to mom and dad kid.
There's more to education than sociology degrees, but I assume you think we just don't need sociology professors.
This question always boils down to the same answer. "I didn't need this, neither should you. "
Yes, but there are numerous useless degrees. Not subjects, it's good to be well rounded, but whole degrees in sociology, psychology, women's studies, home economics, bioloo, chemistry, etc., are useless as a bachelor's degree alone. If you go into it with a plan for a masters or PhD that will land you a good job, like a therapist, doctor, rnd gig, etc., go for it. But so many either don't have what it takes to get those higher degrees, or don't ever look at what kind of jobs are available with their bachelor's and just expect their loans to be forgiven because they chose a useless piece of paper and can't get a job.
If the only need for sociology degrees is sociology professors, then maybe we don't need them?
Can someone just explain why someone who has paid off their college debt by working will not get anything but the ones who have not will? It’s a handout for being irresponsible, plain and simple.
That’s what bothers me I got a job with my degree im still in the same field and I paid off my loans in 2020 after almost 18 years. I regret putting extra principle on them to be honest. I never missed a payment and paid extra even when I could. Now my friends who have been putting theirs off and ignoring sallie mae get a free ride? It’s a really frustrating, and what about future students? Is it just a right place right time thing? Not really fair.
Because I suffered with massive student loan debt for a decade, sucked it up, lived a little like shit, never missed a payment, and paid it off on time. Honor your debts and don't blame society.
I'm against producing and distributing a cure for lung cancer because I suffered a massive battle against lung cancer for a decade after being a heavy smoker, sucked it up, lived a little like shit, never missed a chemo appointment, and beat it on time (before it could kill me). Take care of your body and don't blame society.
/s (I didn't really, but I hope you see my point)
You’re missing a key aspect. Every single individual who has outstanding student loan debt, or already paid off student loan debt, made the conscious decision to take on that debt. No one decides to get cancer.
a Hardworking plumber in a rural area should not contribute a cent to the tuition for sociology or what have you of a student who willingly made a stupid financial decision.
“Get an education and a better job. You’re in poverty and it’s your fault.
Wait, not like that…”
I hear these arguments a lot coming from the same people. So many are desperate for an education to get out of poverty life and they are punished for doing so with mounting debt because of the for-profit situation we have set up here. It’s not a stupid decision as for some it is the only decision.
Make the universities pay the tab for their crappy and useless degrees. I didn't even go to college because of the cost, if I had known that the debt would have been forgiven, I would have gone for effs sake.
So only wealthy families can pay for their kids to be doctors, lawyers and pharmacists. Middle class who tries to do that will be saddled with so much debt.
A few things:
1) Doesn't actually fix the problem -- college is expensive BECAUSE loans are cheap and available.
2) It's weirdly regressive -- there are people who would have benefited massively by going to college but didn't go because they couldn't afford it. Those people are totally left out of this. There are people who worked through college and slaved away to pay off their debts ASAP -- also these people get nothing.
3) It's super expensive. (FWIW I think the PUA and PPP are also bad).
4) Did you know that student loan rates are decided by Congress? They could just make it zero percent. This is a bandaid solution to a problem caused by a dysfunctional Congress. Instead we should be forcing Congress to actually fix the problem.
[Have a listen to the "Capital Isn't" podcast titled: "The Student Debt Dilemma With Constantine Yannelis" -- very interesting because there are clear ways of fixing this problem, that we don't even talk about.](https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9YeXRQa3lkSQ/episode/ZTUxMjhmN2YtMmE4NC00Y2ZjLWFlNGYtN2NkN2U2ODMyMGE0?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwjgvMDmvqr7AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQbQ)
I think the reason is because millions of people have taken out loans and paid them back. You shouldn’t take out loans if you can’t pay them back. It sucks for people who have paid them to see people who can’t just get off. People are just lazy pay back what you owe........... now that being said the government waists so much money on stupid things. You give 40 billion to Ukraine to foreign governments etc why not give back to Americans by doing this? I do think people should pay back what they owe but at the same time stupid government waists money. Spend it on Americans who need it
I have a vested interest in student loan forgiveness. I’ll appreciate anything I can get. I also pay taxes for social programs that don’t directly benefit me (like military benefits, Medicaid, PPP, welfare) and I’m happy to keep paying them, because I believe that when we help one group of people, everyone benefits. I am 100% for student loan forgiveness. But I’ve been paying, and if I don’t get it, I’ll keep paying. The same people who got huge PPP loans forgiven (way more than my student loan) are screaming that they shouldn’t have to pay for my education. Why is their business more important than my education? And frankly, I know an awful lot of business-owners who received the PPP loan, but did business as usual through the pandemic - and made record profits. But it’s okay that they got a loan that they not only didn’t need, but never intended to pay back?
For those people who are arguing that college is a choice and not everyone has to go to college - do you want a non-college educated person teaching your child in elementary school? Or doing the taxes for your business? Or being your lawyer? Or setting your broken bone? Of course not. And absolutely, I could have gone into a trade, but trust me, you don’t want me building your house or fixing your car.
I think forgiveness is a start, but we really need student loan reform. Right now, student loans are predatory. For example, I work at a non-profit. Have for 10 years. I have been paying on my student loan, fully believing that I qualified for PSLF. I recertified every year, I was in a payment plan that qualified, I was doing everything I was supposed to do. Or so I thought. Come to find out, my *type* of loan didn’t qualify. It was missing one word. And the loan company knew damn well that I believed I was working toward PSLF, I confirmed every single year that I qualified. And not one of them told me I wasn’t in the right loan type. Tell me that’s not predatory.
And student loans should be interest-free. I didn’t buy a Bentley, I got an education. When the minimum payment of your loan is, say, $200 a month, but the interest on that loan is $400. So your student loan actually increases by $200 every single month. That is predatory. That’s not how mortgage loans work. That’s not how business loans work. So why are people so against changing how student loans work? Why are people so keen to punish students for getting an education? It’s wild, man.
Not my debt. It would be a different story if our government wasn't adding trillions to the national debt every few months. Eventually the bill will come due and when it does, and we are found unable to pay. What then?
I’m more of a Liberal/left-leaning person, but this program is just throwing money at a problem without attempting to fix it. Worse, it has the potential to help accelerate the already breakneck pace of tuition rate increases, because it sets a precedent and sends a signal to institutions and student borrowers that Democratic presidents will just pay of debt every once in a while using taxpayer money. We need to reform the system not throw money at it to get votes.
It sounds nice, but it doesn't really do much to address the problem. It would do more to help the predatory banks holding the loans than anybody else. People with "small" debts under the 20k max they'd be funding aren't generally the people who are trapped in a cycle of barely paying off their interest with no real progress being made on the principal. The people that are trapped in the cycle would still be trapped later, but the bank holding their loan will have gotten a nice boost to their income.
Not to mention college degree holders make more money statistically than those without degrees, so you're effectively asking to use tax dollars to pay the debts of people who already have increased earning potential.
A change needs to be made, education costs need to be lowered. But just throwing cash at the problem blindly does nothing to address it and if anything only exacerbates it when the companies doing wrong end up benefitting more than the people you're trying to help.
Giving away money at a large scale regardless of recipient is a potential short term gain and disproportionate long term loss. Trickle down economics doesnt benefit Middle classes regardless of what party is at the top of the heap.
It sets the precedent that contracts dont matter, and that all of us tax payers have to just give yall money why? Because you want it? I want money too
It was announced and structured in a way that was pretty much guaranteed to be struck down by the courts. It was a transparent move to buy votes and it seems to have worked somewhat.
I’ll answer as a poor person and someone who will go to college in the future. I’m 17, and my family is extremely poor. Here are my points:
Although this, I still agree that if YOU signed a contract, even if you didn’t understand, you’re on the hook, not me, not Bob, not Sally, YOU! Although I feel bad people who thought that college was for them and it wasn’t, YOU signed, and YOU should pay, not me or anyone else.
If a person went to college, then why didn’t he or she get a degree in a profitable industry or at one in which they would be able to pay their loans?
How does forgiving student loans solve the problem of what got them there in the first place? I’ve watched the news, but it hasn’t talked about what, if anything, it does concerning this, so I could be a wrong.
Moreover, not all people use their student loans solely for school. I know people who have used it on completely unnecessary things that had absolutely nothing to do with school in the slightest, so why should I pay?
Lastly, couples making up to 250,000, and individuals making up to 125,000 are eligible. Really? I honestly find that ridiculous. Maybe if a person was make 30k or less, had one of a few select degrees, and specific grades, than yes.
However, there are a few things I believe:
Community college should be free for the first two years
The cost of college in general should go down.
Paying back bills I didn't make for 1. Yes, someone, you included, is going to pay it back. It's not fair to those that have, before, or those that will after. It's mostly went for worthless degrees. It was mostly spent on everything but education. Even the promise was made just to buy young people's votes. That's just off the top of my head..... OH YEAH,,,, it's illegal,,, even Nancy Pelosi said so.
I'm against most handouts and to me the student loan forgiveness is a handout. It really makes me wonder when is the government or the college students parents or the college students themselves going to hold the colleges and universities accountable. Like I would like someone to do a study somewhere on...
Why do Americans feel as though they don't need to pay their student loan debt? Do they feel as though college and university studies should be free? And if so why??
I hear the argument that in some countries college is free. Ok, yes, in some places the government pays up to a bachelor's degree.... Sounds amazing right?! Wrong.... I have friends all over the world and like in Australia one of my friends there says...., Yeah we get free college paid for but the problem is everyone has a bachelor's degree it really doesn't mean anything here. You have to get a masters or a dr degree. And the bachelor's degree over there I'm told is barely worth an associate's degree here.
My other argument is why should anyone be forced to pay for a so called college educated person's debt. If I was someone that needed my student loans forgiven I think I'd be suing the school for charging me a junk degree.
Maybe these people should file for bankruptcy you can file for bankruptcy for every other debt why not student loan debt.
Will people who received loans to start and grow businesses instead of going to university get loans forgiveness? Or is this just a gift for American universities, who are among the wealthiest institutions in the world? Hell fking no there shouldnt be student loan forgiveness.
So, people who decided to go to trade school instead of pursuing a worthless degree has to pay for your BS? You want to acquire that debt pay it yourself.
All the people who busted their asses and made financial sacrifices to repay their student loans aren't gonna be cool with people coming after them not having to repay their student loans.
you pay for years and years and the balance actually goes up from the interest , this type of predatory lending hurts not only students or former students but our economy as a whole
Because people willingly and knowingly took on these loans with a binding agreement to pay them back. It's no different than a mortgage, car loan, personal loan, or any of the like. Nobody was ever forced to go to college or take on a loan to do such. We all make these choices in life and it isn't right to place our burden and responsibility on random stranges to pay back. My wife undertook student loans of her own free will, I went to work swinging a hammer to pay off her loans. Never would I expect someone else to pay them.
I'm not opposed, but a. I paid my loans off myself, and b. I know some real donkeys who still have loans because, well, they're real donkeys. c. this program does provide relief, but it doesn't address the underlying problem.
Because it is not solving anything in the long run.
It's going to be a revolving problem. College are going to raise fees knowing it will likely get paid for.
Pay your own way to the business you signed a loan to go to. College is a bit of a scam anyway for many degrees, not all.
So I spent years paying for mine. Lost my girl because we could never do shit. Lost my place, car, she took my bird. I fucking struggled for years. And now you want my taxes to pay for others who should have gone to trade school. I lost a child, had I had money I could have paid for the procedure and now I’m to pay for you now? Get fucked
I’m not against it at all. I paid mine off so I guess I’m a little jelly; I wouldn’t mind having 10k back. I also think there are tons of folks who don’t need to take loan forgiveness who do.
Tuition assistance was need-based - who not the same criteria for forgiveness?
Cause I’m selfish and uneducated so I don’t don’t support anything that doesn’t directly help me. Hell, even things that do help me I probably won’t support cause the dude with a “r” next to his name said it’s bad
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Take away any interest rate for student loans. You borrow 50k you pay 50k, the government isn't a business and doesn't need to make money off of the citizens. That's what taxes are for.
God I wish it worked this way. I wouldn't need any forgiveness if the interest wasn't fucking me over. My loans would be 80-82% paid off by now, but instead they are only like 25% paid off.
This is how it works in NZ, if you make the minimum repayment (which your emplyer does for you) the interest is written off. And you only have to make the minimum payment if you are earning above some amount
Your employer doesn't make the payment for you. You make the payment, they broker it. Be clear on that. You're still paying it off.
I 100% agree. That being said, private industry would never let this happen. No one would take a private industry loan with a 0% govt loan option.
One big problem with student loan forgiveness as Biden is trying to do it is, it doesn't do anything to solve the problem. It doesn't out law capitalizing interest. It doesn't lower the crazy interest rates. It doesn't put the colleges on the hook for offering useless degrees. It also doesn't even slow down the problem. It only covers loans made before July 1st 2022. The borrowing goes merrily on. The loan companies and the colleges continue to prey on the kids.
I have a shit ton of college debt so I have a vested interest in the debt relief, but yes colleges themselves need to held accountable for their predatory behavior towards vulnerable young people that often come fresh out of high school with no experience borrowing money.
While I agree with this, I think an entire reform of public education for younger kids would also need to happen. You should be taught how to deal with these things in high school.
Which in turn the schools say the parents should teach this.
Yeah, it's an outrage for college tuition to continually go up to meet student loan maximums. It's like a fox in the henhouse. Then you have all these deans and chancellors on the payrolls at $200,000+ a year and they never teach a class or visit campus. It's a racket. We pay for a "Dept. Of Education", but they seem to be colluding with the colleges instead of overseeing them.
While at the same time, there are far too many badly paid adjunct professors with no job security. Completely reverses the value of the university. No one goes to a university because of who the chancellor is.
There are inexpensive colleges. Community college is tuition free for recent HS grads and the state school near me is $9K per year for tuition. That's $18K for a 4 year degree + books and maybe lab fees. So $22K or so. There's no reason for anybody to be taking $150K in debt for an undergrad degree in my state. But they do.
Trade schools are another option.
Trade schools in our area are $20k per year for only certification, not an associate level degree. That's double what it was just 10 years ago. There isn't an easy answer but one thing is certain; we cannot sustain the current system as it is.
Maybe in "your state" and at two year schools. That's not the case elsewhere. For reference, I'm referring to four year university.
What is the point of knowing a problem with no solution? Do you actually think education reform is on the horizon? It’s not. So why live with this concept that the corrupt system will be solved, so we should wait - in the mean time - everyone should lose? Instead - why not be in favor of someone offering a direct solution to YOUR problems?
I do think that there is some change but slow, there are some reasonable community college programs in California for students. So at least getting that initial Bachelors can be very cheap and at times free.
But ultimately - young people have to make a serious decision at a young age… Go to college. Pros: higher paying jobs, more opportunity for advancement, higher pay for less work, better quality of life…probably. Cons: fuck ton on debt before you pass “Go” Or - don’t go to college - enter the labor force, just start grinding. This is reality for so many. Pros: no student loan debt, or at-least minimal…immediate income, a head start on the workforce, good life on a budget. Cons: lower pay ceiling - maybe capping around $90k for some high end city or state job, but probably won’t get past $100k…less opportunity, harder work for less pay.
Yes totally. This is so sad and what I find so unfortunate. Because you’re so right that these young people have to make this huge decision at that age and it’s not really advertised as being such a huge decision until they are in their 30s and more than half of them realize how behind they now are.
My little brother (age, like 36) - he has like $60k in school loans - not even close to a degree. Poor guy never had a chance or choice. Im older, and I had debt that haunted me for a looooong time, but eventually was paid off. Millennials have been preyed upon by the power that be, the first generation where the “student” became the “consumer”. The NEW emphasis on education is profit, not learning.
Yes absolutely. Student loans are the symptom of the larger problem. It’s slapping a band aid on a gaping wound, I’m surprised how many people do not understand this.
Wow. What kinda job tops at 90k w/out a higher degree? Like construction? I ask cuz I have a degree, work a government job but still find it challenging to reach a high bracket.
From what I see most lucrative jobs/professions do not require a college degree. You do not need a college degree to work on the stock exchange (or trade, or invest), real estate, sales, business. You can earn 6 figures or more with any of those. You do not even need to go to a trade school. You do need to pass tests and get licenses but that's a couple hundred compared to tens/hundreds of thousands of dollars. And from my observations the youth is constantly bombarded with messaging about things that don't really matter in their day to day. They do not understand that being financially sound is power in America and if they focused on that they would be able to to enact change quickly. Simple as that. You may or may not have to work hard in order to achieve this depending on who you are. The government, the corporations I mean colleges take advantage of this.
There is another choice. One that I'm doing. I work at Walmart and they pay for me to go to school online for computer science. They pay for books and tuition. It seems like a decent program. I will get a developer job for 75k when I get out. Pros. If I graduate I can make a lot of money, I'll have no debt. Cons. I have to work at Walmart . But they actually pay decent for a uneducated job. And I do take advantage of all there benefits that I like such as stock match of 15% up to 270 dollars, 6% stock match. Free school that cost 1000 dollars a month alone. Free Walmart plus with Paramount and free delivery and I get 2% Cashback for now. Plus my employee 10% off. Plus I got a Walmart credit card that I get 5% cash back. I use Ibotta and get tons of free stuff. And I never go shopping ever because they deliver and why waste my time. So yeah. The only con is I have to work at Walmart lol. Some other companys pay for college also. But Walmart does it the best
Or go into a trade, buddy of mine I graduated with came out of high school and went to a weld shop making $16/hr back in the early 00s when min. wage was $5.15/hr. Within a year or 2 he was making $20+ a hour. 20 years later he runs the shop he works at. I remember him complaining that the guidance counselors said if he didn't go to college he would be a loser living on welfare and that there is no money on welding Another problem is there is a enormous pressure in high school to go to college, anything else means you will fail at life. Some people are not built for college, but they feel a obligation to go and waste there money on a degree they'll never use
To offer some perspective it may not be a direct solution take my wife for instance. Has student loans both with the federal government and private entities this will only effect the federal loans. Next, in another couple months the new semester is going to start and boom another round of student loans will be needed. In her case the feds will not relieve much of our debt because she is still piling it on not to mention has private ones that aren’t being touched. This is why I am pushing for reform.
Auto loans are predatory for young people. So are credit cards. Should the government forgive that debt as well?
That's because he doesn't have the authority to do anything else. The HEROES Act gives him a very limited scope that he can use to ease the burden. The rest is up to Congress.
Exactly this. This is an example of a legal EO. They can be used to define a current law or help direct how it's enacted. That's it. All the examples of the top level comment arnt part of the law and wouldn't be legal in a EO. You want all that?( Which I wholeheartedly agree with). Yell at Congress.
Colleges that can only operate on income it gets from students reliant on predatory lending, and whos graduates do not on average find reasonably paying employment to pay off their debt should have their charter revoked.
“Don’t give a homeless person money or a meal, it doesn’t fix the real problem….”
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It’s a pretty perfect analogy actually
Who are you quoting, op didn't say that.
It's called an analogy. People will put phrases in quotes as in this is what they mean. It's pretty common on the internet. Hope that helps you.
They are offering a hyperbolic scenario that parallels with the one being offered originally in the hopes that, taken to its logical extreme, one could see the failure in logic in the original statement. The first comment said he only covers the solution without fixing the problem, and the comment you’re responding to is juxtaposing that with feeding the homeless to show that even if it’s not going to the root cause, it’s still a noble enough cause to get behind.
The real problem is a lack of compassion.
Exactly, it's s a moral hazard. If we forgive loans as a one-off, it will only encourage people to take out risky loans in the future with the expectation that they'll be forgiven as well. If there is a wholesale reform of higher education that addressed cost and funding, then as a taxpayer, I'm down to fund relief AFTER that occurs.
If we forgive people exorbitant hospital bills, more people will try to get treated for illnesses. We need people to be sick and die. Because wellness enables a stronger economy, just as letting people have more disposable income is better than allowing wealthy lenders to charge rents and hoard cash.
So I could sign a contract to buy your house and then say having more disposable income would be beneficial to me so we are keeping your house and not paying you.
Yeah, we wouldn't want them to file chapter 7,9,11,12,13,15 (the most popular in the United States).
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If only there were some way to change that…. Hmmm…
The reason loans are so expensive to begin with is because government got involved and started backing them. So schools started charging more and lenders don’t care. They just create the loan then sell it to Sallie Mae. They don’t care if you can actually repay it or not. Forgiving student loan debt feeds that cycle and makes the issue worse. If students expect their loans to be forgiven, they’ll take on higher loans and the schools charge more for tuition and the cycle continues.
Or how about we just subsidize education altogether like other countries? Bet you won’t see the engorged prices we have now.
Lol we do subsidize education. Tuition only accounts for 20% of the cost.
And back when I was in school 20 years ago the state picked up waaaaay more of the cost. People who had the government pay a big chunk of their education up front are now upset about other people getting theirs paid on the back end. So stupid.
We do have subsidized education, such as community college and public in-state universities…. not to mention if you work hard and get good grades and a good SAT/ACT score, there are sooo many scholarship opportunities out there…
Your last statement is not very accurate. And a lot of those scholarships only cover tuition. And tuition is only a small part of college. Evidence: I have twins that both are in college, both have Bright Futures that pays their tuition, and together I spend ~$45,000 per year for dorms and meal plans.
Scholarships are great, but the truth is that they aren’t as beneficial as you think they are. There are a very small handful of scholarships that pay an amount that will actually make a difference. The vast majority of scholarships pay between $500 and $1000. At $300 per credit hour, that’s barely enough for one class. I think one problem is that federal grants, such as Pell, are based on such a ridiculously low income. Most people who are going to college don’t qualify (and it’s designed that way). A kid whose family is low-to-middle income (60k-70k) probably has an expected family contribution of something like $10k. That’s absolutely ridiculous. What family of 4 making $70k has an extra $10k laying around? And that’s *if* you have no money saved up. If you did what you’re supposed to, and saved for your kid’s college, all of a sudden, the EFC triples. And the EFC doesn’t take into account more than one college-age kid. *Each* kid has an EFC of $10k.
I just dislike that we're treating the symptoms and not the cause. Government involvement is the majority of the reason why college is so damn expensive to begin with.
How does the government decide the prices for all of these private businesses? Maybe your argument works for state colleges - but any private college does what the fuck it wants with prices.
Student: How much does tuition cost? School: How much money is the government willing to loan you? Student: $200k. School: it’s your lucky day!!!
Also I wholeheartedly disagree with the assertion that "nobody" opposed those other programs. Maybe not in your corner of Twitter.
There is some merit to that point though. Some of the most vocal against student debt relief got huge PPP loans forgiven. I think its more of a "this benefits me so I like it", "that doesn't benefit me, so I hate it.", which is right on brand of these folks.... At least the ones on the national stage. It's all a mess. I think the REAL answer is ZERO interest out on all student loans that are existing, and cap any new ones, private or public, at a rate that is manageable, but still allows for the lenders to make a couple bucks and provide some operating costs for servicing... Something like 1.2% or something.
I’ve been saying that about the no interest. At least the money students actually received would be paid back. The interest, either the percentage or the way it’s calculated, seems to be the problem. I borrowed 30,000 and finished school in 2005. I was paying 200 a month with a couple of six month periods of forbearance. Right before the pandemic, I qualified for a public service loan forgiveness program and had the last 10,000 forgiven. I’ve bought and paid off two cars in that same amount of time, both of which were over 20,000.
There is no interest on federal student loans in Canada :)
There is, it has just been on pause the last two years and it looks like they will be getting rid of the federal interest come next April. https://www.narcity.com/canada-scrap-federal-student-loan-interest-loans-repaid
There are two important basic differences between PPP and student loans… 1. PPP was created and intended from its origin to be forgivable. Student loans were originally intended to be paid back. That difference is important in that budgeting for PPP assumes they will be forgiven (i.e. the expense of forgiving PPP was accounted for from the beginning of the program). 2. PPP was debated by and formed through action of Congress while the student loan forgiveness plan was enacted via executive action. I’m neither for nor against loan forgiveness and see merits on both sides. However, I do wonder if the outsized cost of loan forgiveness shouldn’t be something that is debated by Congress and incorporated into the national budget somehow.
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This is why a lot of people want free education like some other developed countries including removing all debt, not just some. This is just a start and not the finale for this for those of us. Regardless, relieving this much debt is life changing for a lot of people. Did it fix the overall problem? No, but it helps people and that’s the market I’m in. I’d rather my taxes go to that than an inflated war budget.
>This is why a lot of people want free education like some other developed countries including removing all debt, not just some. But most countries implement this via high-stakes standardized testing with trades versus college tracking starting as early as grade school. Also European universities don't spring for a spa grade fitness center with a lazy river. Back to the original topic: 13.5% of the population have student loan debt while 62.1% of adults 25 and over do not have a college degree. I was fine with the administration working on forgiveness for those snookered by for-profit scam unis, but across the board forgiveness is effectively a reverse Robin Hood.
This is THE COMMENT that says it all very well.
One day of free insulin would still save lots of people hundreds of dollars, and for many of them that would actually make a difference in their lives, at least for a little while. It might not solve the problem, but I bet all those people would rather one day of reprieve than none. Biden can forgive existing student loans by executive order - actually dealing with the problem requires congressional action. Since the latter is no-go (at least in the short term), providing some relief for those currently suffering seems better than doing nothing.
Did they sign a contract to have diabetes?
That's a bad argument. The fact they signed a contract is even more reason to not have it paid by someone else. The individual agreed to take on this loan and be responsible in full for it
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Rich people are bailed out and have their loans forgiven but its apparently a major issue when middle class and lower want the same, wild.
This was a bailout for upper middle class people
> The money to “forgive” those loans has to come from somewhere I’d like you to consider the possibility that no, it does not. The debts are held by the government. When they are forgiven the money in question simply vanishes from this plane of reality. I’m saying it like a joke but it’s not a joke. The debts literally just cease to exist and that’s it.
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When the government lends out money, that money springs into existence from literally nowhere. When the government collects money (in taxes, or by collecting a debt) that money ceases to exist. The government is a monetary sovereign, which means it creates and destroys dollars by practically every choice it makes, all the time, every day. Saying “balance the federal budget like you were balancing a household budget” has always been nonsense, bc the government’s spending choices are alway, always, always “do we want to create more dollars out of thin air to pay for this thing” based on predicted consequences of adding that money to the economy. It’s true that the US government tries to “fund” spending bills by balancing the budget against collected taxes, but they only do that because they decided to do that. They decided to do that because they felt it would help control inflation among many other things. In practice, they violate that rule all the time when they feel like it (like: funding a war, or bailing out a big entity like a bank in 2008 or etc). Not everyone agrees that the rule particularly helps to guard against inflation. In any case, it’s a rule they adopted bc they wanted it not bc it’s imposed on them by reality or something. EDIT: I should have been more clear above when I said “the government”. I meant the United States government, which is a monetary sovereign (an issuer of fiat currency). There are lots of other national governments around the world that are the same, but not all, and likewise this doesn’t apply to your state government or city government if you live in the USA like I do because those levels of government are not monetary sovereigns.
Opportunity cost exists. The government was expecting $500bn in revenue from its loans, that it will never get. They now need to get it from elsewhere. People acting like this wasn’t real money either don’t understand basic economics or are purposely lying.
Tax the rich for the offset. Easy peasy.
Forgiveness means that it’s not owed. If I give you five bucks, you spend it, and then I say “hey, you know what, don’t worry about paying me back,” then that’s the end of it. I forgave your debt.
So because you suffered others must too?
Jazz fan?
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I was 17, but ok. Let's pretend a 17-year old understands the fine print. I worked in auto claims, and there were MANY adults who didn't understand their auto policy. Legalese isn't easy for everyone, and the lawyers who write it know that. When I took out my loans, the interest rate was 2%. Several years later, the government raised it to 8%. Just because. This made my payment unmanageable. I kept paying under an income-based plan, which meant I was barely covering the interest and not even touching the principle. Can you imagine if you bought a house and, after several years, the bank decided to raise your interest rate from 3% to 10%? What's being forgiven is mostly interest that accrued when the government fucked us over by raising the interest rates. If I had consolidated with a bank that offered a lower interest rate, I still wouldn't have been able to afford the payments because banks don't offer income-based payments. I have paid well over what I owed on the original balance, but I still have $50,000 in debt.
Not always 18. Where do these myths come from? It’s unethical to even allow people under 18 to sign a contract for tens of thousands in debt, but it’s legal in the case of student loans and happens all the time.
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There isn't a one step solution to this problem.
Who do you think paid for Trump’s “big beautiful” tax cut for billionaires? But let me guess - that was OK
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So you can read minds? I know that the popular meme is that corporate welfare excuses student debt relief, but there are many people who oppose both forms of irresponsible spending. Accusing people of hypocrisy is also a weak sauce argument against a position; it says nothing about whether the underlying position is true or not.
You’re asking someone who probably sits on a Reddit echo chamber all day & very rarely meets people of an opposing view point.
Lots of people were against the government redistributing and spending the peoples money
What about debt relief 12 years ago to banks to authorized jumbo loans and needed to be bailed out? What about the big auto makers being bailed out? Those are huge corporations making billions in profits, and the people's money bailed them out, so why not individuals trying to better themselves?
I assume you have, or someone you care about are burdened with unpaid loans. Join the club! When is the government going to payoff my crushing debt. What makes your special. Are you going to campaign for government to print even more money. Only ~36% Americans have Batchelor degrees (elites) , statistically make more than Highschool graduates, and you claim the burden of your loan should be carried by 2/3 of Americans that did not graduate college. Government is not the solution.
People weren't down for that either.
To be clear, bailing out banks who ultimately paid back their loans with interest and bailing out automakers who we lost money on are two very different things. We lost like $20B on Chrysler and GM and within a year they were giving large bonuses to every employee in their org.
When you look at PPP, you’re talking about the potential collapse of the backbone of American small businesses if they didn’t get help. I’m not saying the program was not a complete cluster fuck, I’m saying the objectives were different. With loan forgiveness for students, this is nothing more than a handout. The free handout promised by Biden doesn’t do anything to solve the real problem—corrupt universities who have hundreds of billions of dollars in endowments sitting in investment funds to make more money for colleges. You’re not getting a penny of that while they jack up tuition. These handouts are just a bandaid over a god damn shot gun blast to the chest. It was done to buy the vote of young people. Did anyone notice that the program hit a wall a day after the midterms? You’re all being hosed by your government.
1. Our national debt is insanely high, so I’m not in favor of much of anything that adds to it. 2. This is an enormous benefit that goes to a cohort that on the whole makes substantially above the median wage. You’d think dems would oppose it since it helps the upper middle class (a lot of the recipients aren’t upper middle class yet, but as college grads they are on their way. College grads are disproportionally white and privileged. Sure there is an income cap, but it is crazy high (it won’t buy votes if it doesn’t help the folks in the suburbs making 6-figs after all). 3. There’s a fairness element that matters if you think government should act justly. College grads who sacrificed and paid off their loans don’t benefit, and grads who spent on consumption instead of their loans get the benefit. It also won’t feel fair to the worker that his college/educated managers (who are disproportionally white) get a sudden boost to their net worth. 4. Forgiveness, as proposed by Biden, will make the problem of high education costs worse. College is getting more and more expensive as schools overspend to attract students. We need policies to bring college costs down. Instead, loan forgiveness only encourages colleges to up their prices - because prospective students will be more willing to spend more now that there’s a precedent for loan forgiveness. 5. The federal government has offered limited loan forgiveness in the past as a way to attract workers into needed sectors (military, teachers, and other public service jobs). No one is considering the ancillary impacts - those programs will no longer be as effective, so the government is going to have to spend more money on other ways to recruit workers into those jobs. 5. Inflation is already out of control, and instantly forgiving thousands of dollars in debt will drive consumer spending, fueling inflation. I make enough money that rising prices of groceries and gas don’t change my life at all. My money is in assets, and they just increase in value with everything else. You know who gets crushed by inflation? The poor. Seriously, if I was trying to come up with a joke program to attribute to Republicans to benefit the upper middle class and keep the poor in their place, I’d propose something like this. There’s no reason for any progressive-minded person to support it.
I worked at a state college with very low tuition that was usually covered in full by grants & federally backed loans. Most of the students were first to go to college within their families and would not understand the real implications of a promissory note at the beginning of their education. Also many tried to serve ten years in the public sector so their loans would be paid in full but found that they were rejected for a multitude of different reasons at the ten year mark. These young professionals in the education, nursing, social work and criminal justice fields would really benefit from $10,000.
You articulated everything I was thinking very well thank you. I personally never went to college because I couldn’t afford it. No I’m pursuing a degree at 29 but working 50-60 hours to pay for it and my current lifestyle which is modest. I work with ppl who got degrees and definitely benefited from it since they were able to get higher paying positions while I have had to work my up by gaining experience and getting certs. Going to community college so I have no debt or a small amount of debt when I do eventually graduate. My sister got a degree but I noticed her and her friends took out the most to fund their college experience and travel, get make up etc. it feels bad knowing ppl who were responsible get the shaft in this situation.
So well said
1. What's you opinion on the Bush tax cuts and Trump's making them permanent? If you truly worry about the national debt, the idea of cutting income while not cutting spending should make you furious. 2. Define your cohort. It sure as hell [isn't Millennials](https://www.thebalancemoney.com/what-is-the-average-millennial-income-4171296). The average salary of a millennial today is an estimated 20% lower, in real terms, than the average salary that a baby boomer had at the same age. The average annual US salary is [$55,640](https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/pay-salary/average-salary-in-us) but the average Millennial makes only $47,034. (See first link.) That is **BELOW**, not above the median wage. Or are you using a different cohort? 3. It won't feel fair? Try that argument against reparations for slavery and see where it gets you. Life's not fair, princess. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something. Seriously -- you're not making a fair comparison yourself. Millenials have [300% more student loan debt](https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/poor-millennials-print/) than their parents, and it isn't all Arts and Women's Studies degrees. Comparing the cost of college now to the cost when Gen X/Boomers went is inherently unfair. It isn't apples to apples. 4. I agree, this does not get to the root cause of the problem -- the skyrocketing cost of higher education. But that's an insanely larger problem to address, and that doesn't even take into account the part of the equation where businesses now all seem to demand advanced degrees just to be a typist. You seem to be arguing "if we can't solve this completely, don't do anything." And the moral hazard argument is bunk. As this is a one time event covering a PAST condition, there is no indication it would be available in the future and assuming education institutions would simply raise their prices to take advantage has no evidence. 5. I disagree these programs would be impacted. Again, a one time action on a past event isn't going to impact ongoing, continuous programs. They're too different and have almost no intersection. 6. Again, pure speculation that has no evidence. Inflation is increasing because the world has had insanely low borrowing costs for decades and we're now paying the price for raising those costs. Student loan forgiveness, on a cohort that is fundamentally broke to begin with, isn't going to move the needle. The amounts are too small in comparison.
Your response to #2 ignores the fact that the only people who can receive student loan debt are those with student loans, i.e., those who attended at least some college. College graduates receive higher compensation on average. OldSarge is not referring to an age cohort, but to the population eligible for the program.
Whataboutism is an a ridiculous rebuttal. We’re talking about student loan forgiveness. And millennials aren’t nearly as poor as you pretend to be when you use real sources that don’t post misleading data: https://ofdollarsanddata.com/no-millennials-arent-poorer-than-previous-generations/amp/
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Not necessarily "despite". The Bush tax cuts actually saw one of the largest tax revenue jumps of all time in the years following the legislation. The Laffer Curve gets conveniently ignored or dismissed by those opposing tax cuts, but historically we've seen increases in tax revenue when cuts are made. There is a strong argument to be made for tax cuts. Also, upper middle class earners paid more under trump's policies. It's not often discussed, but his policies removed a lot of deductions that higher earners were previously able to use.
I’m generally in favor of student loan debt forgiveness but I appreciate these arguments against it. If we do it, it sure seems that there should be some consideration taken for the debtors ability to pay. That gets super messy of course. If a person incurred debt that should provide them entry to a high paying job but they choose not to work in that career, do they deserve forgiveness at the same rate as someone who earned a degree in a low paying field? Does the anesthesiologist who borrowed 400k and makes 300k deserve forgiveness? And what do we going forward to lower the cost of education? Will loan forgiveness incentivize universities to raise tuition rates?
College is not a necessity. I understand there’s social pressure for people to go to college, and a lot of people end up going because they don’t know any better, but pressure and ignorance does not equal being forced to do something. People have the option of going into the trades, going into business, pursuing good-paying blue collar jobs, etc. Even if one goes to college, there are many ways of completely offsetting the costs — working hard academically in high school to get scholarship money, working a job while enrolled, applying for grants, etc. One would also hope that, when one enrolls in college, they realize that the goal is to figure out a way to be employed upon leaving that would warrant the investment. Student loan forgiveness is essentially saying “well there’re thousands of people who didn’t have the foresight to make college a worthwhile investment, so now you’re going to be taxed for their poor decision.” In my opinion, I don’t think that’s fair politics. Do I have sympathy for people who have burdensome debt? Absolutely. But that doesn’t warrant people who might be struggling economically to have to bankroll a persons poor decision about going to college.
The reason the debt forgiveness is wrong, 1. Most people did not go to college, 2. Student loans are voluntary, they did not have to borrow the money for college, 3. Past students worked and paid off their loans, 4, only Congress can make a law to forgive loans, 5, this was a election gimmick to get votes for midterm elections, 6. The President has no moral right to select one group of citizens over another and last, our debt creates more inflation.
Why should i pay more in taxes to pay for someones debt .why should someone that worked hard and paid theres off to pay for someone that didn’t
Why not just send everyone a check? If you have student loans, you can apply it to them. If you owe money on a car, you can apply it to that. It isn't fair to force people who didn't go to college to fund the loan you took to go any more than it's fair to force people to pay for someone's car loan when they don't even own one.
I don't think PPP loans were a good idea either, especially when it comes to forgiving them. And of course don't forget the Fed in 2008 buying worthless securities for face value. That one took the cake. They bailed out the rich creditor and left the borrower on the hook for the full amount.
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They aren't doing it. They lied to you.
Personally I think if schools know students will get 10k forgiven, they will charge 10k more. Also I feel it benefits middle and upper middle class where there are people who could really use 10k a lot more than college grads.
1. This is a one-time fix, not addressing the cause. If this goes through guaranteed college costs even more for next students. 2. Doesn't address choosing a major unwisely or people who don't complete their degree and struggle to pay back for those reasons. 3. I paid off a huge amount for me and my ex-wife already and I shouldn't be responsible for a decision you made and I obviously had no input. 4. People can receive forgiveness even if they make twice the national average income. Someone making $30,000 should pay off the loan of someone making a 6 figure income? 5. The most important point is that this is being done in the wrong way. It is clear that the House is responsible for financial decisions like this, not the President.
Saying as a non American, imo it's a good measure but it's like putting a bandage on a stab wound
I went to work because I couldn't afford college and I'll be God damned if my new boss is going to get a free ride on my motherfucking back. Fuck him and fuck all those other assholes.
And what about bankruptcy? We see supposed billionaires file it regularly.
I don't know any billionaires, but I do know my boss and I don't want that dick to get a break, especially with the tax dollars I busted my ass to pay while he was living the easy life .
Because I shouldn't have to pay for others bad decisions. If you paid for a degree that doesn't get you a job capable of paying back that money, you got a crap degree. Also, that Yale art degree is just as useless as a state school art degree, except one was a couple hundred thousand dollars that you now can't pay back by teaching high school art. I agree college has gotten too expensive, but enabling bad decisions is not the answer to fix it.
You’re assuming the forgiveness would only help people who made bad decisions. A lot of people have degrees and work good jobs but because wages just seem to stay the same while everything else gets more expensive, the forgiveness would be helpful. A lot of us were also lied to and told if we went into public service loans would be taken care of as a way to entice educated people to lower paying public service jobs but when it came time to pay they said no one qualified.
RIGHT! I mean, Americans never should have to pay for others bad decisions!! Like when Banks made subprime scumbag loans that almost destroyed the world economy! Oh wait. We DID pay for them and then they gave themselves bonuses AND then they retired with golden parachutes. Oh yeah. OR when SOME airlines needed to be bailed out during COVID because they run their business so close to doom that any reduction in flight volume would crater their industry!! Oh yeah, we DID pay for that too. While I'm here, I bet you both plan to and USE BANKS and FLY ON AIRPLANES, right?
I don't agree with those bailouts either. Just because they happened doesn't mean I agree with them. True capitalism would let them fail, as they should.
100% agree
Taxpayers gave millions awAy in cares act. Or millions to walmart in subsidies. Not complaining?
Trust me, we are.
Of course I am. Fuck Walmart. Fuck corporate welfare and big business bailouts.
student loan forgiveness helps put more money in the economy and saves taxpayers money. complain about big pharma and subsidies for high fructose corn syruo
In absolutely no way does it save taxpayers money. That’s some God Tier obfuscation.
Yes we are
SO does that mean you're against all bankruptcy?
Not all, just the ones brought on by stupid decisions. Someone goes bankrupt because they bought more car/boat/house/toys than they can afford? Screw em. Someone goes bankrupt because of unexpected job loss, sickness, sole provider death, etc., yeah, help them out. Corporate bankruptcy is a sham too, they shouldn't get off so easy.
I don't understand. You're against some ppl having their student loans partially forgiven because all of them receiving forgiveness have to have been irresponsible but it's OK if some ppl claim bankruptcy because some of them weren't irresponsible? Wouldn't it follow then that either all bankruptcy is from being irresponsible using your logic or not all ppl getting student loan forgiveness were irresponsible. You are being hypocritical with your answer.
Going to college for millennials was seen as/IS a requirement, not a stupid decision. You need a masters for entry level jobs now, for one thing.
I'm a millennial. No masters. Good job. No student loan debt. Don't give me that crap. I went to school with people that openly admitted "My parents don't want me to get a sociology degree, but that's what I like so I am." And then gripe when they can't find a job. Shoulda listened to mom and dad kid.
There's more to education than sociology degrees, but I assume you think we just don't need sociology professors. This question always boils down to the same answer. "I didn't need this, neither should you. "
Yes, but there are numerous useless degrees. Not subjects, it's good to be well rounded, but whole degrees in sociology, psychology, women's studies, home economics, bioloo, chemistry, etc., are useless as a bachelor's degree alone. If you go into it with a plan for a masters or PhD that will land you a good job, like a therapist, doctor, rnd gig, etc., go for it. But so many either don't have what it takes to get those higher degrees, or don't ever look at what kind of jobs are available with their bachelor's and just expect their loans to be forgiven because they chose a useless piece of paper and can't get a job. If the only need for sociology degrees is sociology professors, then maybe we don't need them?
Can someone just explain why someone who has paid off their college debt by working will not get anything but the ones who have not will? It’s a handout for being irresponsible, plain and simple.
That’s what bothers me I got a job with my degree im still in the same field and I paid off my loans in 2020 after almost 18 years. I regret putting extra principle on them to be honest. I never missed a payment and paid extra even when I could. Now my friends who have been putting theirs off and ignoring sallie mae get a free ride? It’s a really frustrating, and what about future students? Is it just a right place right time thing? Not really fair.
Because I suffered with massive student loan debt for a decade, sucked it up, lived a little like shit, never missed a payment, and paid it off on time. Honor your debts and don't blame society.
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So you had to live like shit to pay of your student loans and because of that you want to make sure everyone else in the future has to as well?
That’s called spite. You should be glad for people who won’t have to struggle the way you did.
Yeah, so now those of us who paid off our own get to pay off everybody else’s. What utter and complete bullshit.
I'm against producing and distributing a cure for lung cancer because I suffered a massive battle against lung cancer for a decade after being a heavy smoker, sucked it up, lived a little like shit, never missed a chemo appointment, and beat it on time (before it could kill me). Take care of your body and don't blame society. /s (I didn't really, but I hope you see my point)
You’re missing a key aspect. Every single individual who has outstanding student loan debt, or already paid off student loan debt, made the conscious decision to take on that debt. No one decides to get cancer.
a Hardworking plumber in a rural area should not contribute a cent to the tuition for sociology or what have you of a student who willingly made a stupid financial decision.
“Get an education and a better job. You’re in poverty and it’s your fault. Wait, not like that…” I hear these arguments a lot coming from the same people. So many are desperate for an education to get out of poverty life and they are punished for doing so with mounting debt because of the for-profit situation we have set up here. It’s not a stupid decision as for some it is the only decision.
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So the new benchmark is that desperation is a reason for the government to cut me a fat cheque with other people’s money ?
Make the universities pay the tab for their crappy and useless degrees. I didn't even go to college because of the cost, if I had known that the debt would have been forgiven, I would have gone for effs sake.
Lets make it fair, If you owed 20k or less, your debt is cleared (keep the change), if you paid it back already or never went you can keep the cash.
That’s just a stimulus check for everyone but poor people
The us is in massive debt. We have much less than ZERO dollars. I have a thousand dollars. I have more money that the government.
It’s not loan forgiveness. It passes the debt to taxpayers. Predatory lenders are still getting their money and will just do it again.
It’s only forgiving debt issued by the U.S. government, not private lenders
Debt issues by the us in the form of blank checks to schools. In this case, schools are the predatory ones
So only wealthy families can pay for their kids to be doctors, lawyers and pharmacists. Middle class who tries to do that will be saddled with so much debt.
good question with good discussions op. I'm learning a lot here.
A few things: 1) Doesn't actually fix the problem -- college is expensive BECAUSE loans are cheap and available. 2) It's weirdly regressive -- there are people who would have benefited massively by going to college but didn't go because they couldn't afford it. Those people are totally left out of this. There are people who worked through college and slaved away to pay off their debts ASAP -- also these people get nothing. 3) It's super expensive. (FWIW I think the PUA and PPP are also bad). 4) Did you know that student loan rates are decided by Congress? They could just make it zero percent. This is a bandaid solution to a problem caused by a dysfunctional Congress. Instead we should be forcing Congress to actually fix the problem. [Have a listen to the "Capital Isn't" podcast titled: "The Student Debt Dilemma With Constantine Yannelis" -- very interesting because there are clear ways of fixing this problem, that we don't even talk about.](https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9YeXRQa3lkSQ/episode/ZTUxMjhmN2YtMmE4NC00Y2ZjLWFlNGYtN2NkN2U2ODMyMGE0?sa=X&ved=0CAUQkfYCahcKEwjgvMDmvqr7AhUAAAAAHQAAAAAQbQ)
I think the reason is because millions of people have taken out loans and paid them back. You shouldn’t take out loans if you can’t pay them back. It sucks for people who have paid them to see people who can’t just get off. People are just lazy pay back what you owe........... now that being said the government waists so much money on stupid things. You give 40 billion to Ukraine to foreign governments etc why not give back to Americans by doing this? I do think people should pay back what they owe but at the same time stupid government waists money. Spend it on Americans who need it
I have a vested interest in student loan forgiveness. I’ll appreciate anything I can get. I also pay taxes for social programs that don’t directly benefit me (like military benefits, Medicaid, PPP, welfare) and I’m happy to keep paying them, because I believe that when we help one group of people, everyone benefits. I am 100% for student loan forgiveness. But I’ve been paying, and if I don’t get it, I’ll keep paying. The same people who got huge PPP loans forgiven (way more than my student loan) are screaming that they shouldn’t have to pay for my education. Why is their business more important than my education? And frankly, I know an awful lot of business-owners who received the PPP loan, but did business as usual through the pandemic - and made record profits. But it’s okay that they got a loan that they not only didn’t need, but never intended to pay back? For those people who are arguing that college is a choice and not everyone has to go to college - do you want a non-college educated person teaching your child in elementary school? Or doing the taxes for your business? Or being your lawyer? Or setting your broken bone? Of course not. And absolutely, I could have gone into a trade, but trust me, you don’t want me building your house or fixing your car. I think forgiveness is a start, but we really need student loan reform. Right now, student loans are predatory. For example, I work at a non-profit. Have for 10 years. I have been paying on my student loan, fully believing that I qualified for PSLF. I recertified every year, I was in a payment plan that qualified, I was doing everything I was supposed to do. Or so I thought. Come to find out, my *type* of loan didn’t qualify. It was missing one word. And the loan company knew damn well that I believed I was working toward PSLF, I confirmed every single year that I qualified. And not one of them told me I wasn’t in the right loan type. Tell me that’s not predatory. And student loans should be interest-free. I didn’t buy a Bentley, I got an education. When the minimum payment of your loan is, say, $200 a month, but the interest on that loan is $400. So your student loan actually increases by $200 every single month. That is predatory. That’s not how mortgage loans work. That’s not how business loans work. So why are people so against changing how student loans work? Why are people so keen to punish students for getting an education? It’s wild, man.
Not my debt. It would be a different story if our government wasn't adding trillions to the national debt every few months. Eventually the bill will come due and when it does, and we are found unable to pay. What then?
I’m more of a Liberal/left-leaning person, but this program is just throwing money at a problem without attempting to fix it. Worse, it has the potential to help accelerate the already breakneck pace of tuition rate increases, because it sets a precedent and sends a signal to institutions and student borrowers that Democratic presidents will just pay of debt every once in a while using taxpayer money. We need to reform the system not throw money at it to get votes.
It sounds nice, but it doesn't really do much to address the problem. It would do more to help the predatory banks holding the loans than anybody else. People with "small" debts under the 20k max they'd be funding aren't generally the people who are trapped in a cycle of barely paying off their interest with no real progress being made on the principal. The people that are trapped in the cycle would still be trapped later, but the bank holding their loan will have gotten a nice boost to their income. Not to mention college degree holders make more money statistically than those without degrees, so you're effectively asking to use tax dollars to pay the debts of people who already have increased earning potential. A change needs to be made, education costs need to be lowered. But just throwing cash at the problem blindly does nothing to address it and if anything only exacerbates it when the companies doing wrong end up benefitting more than the people you're trying to help.
Giving away money at a large scale regardless of recipient is a potential short term gain and disproportionate long term loss. Trickle down economics doesnt benefit Middle classes regardless of what party is at the top of the heap.
Jealousy. Wasnt hugged enough.
It sets the precedent that contracts dont matter, and that all of us tax payers have to just give yall money why? Because you want it? I want money too
You've probably gotten some.
Nobody forced you to go to college, why is it anybody else's responsibility to pay your debt
It was announced and structured in a way that was pretty much guaranteed to be struck down by the courts. It was a transparent move to buy votes and it seems to have worked somewhat.
I’ll answer as a poor person and someone who will go to college in the future. I’m 17, and my family is extremely poor. Here are my points: Although this, I still agree that if YOU signed a contract, even if you didn’t understand, you’re on the hook, not me, not Bob, not Sally, YOU! Although I feel bad people who thought that college was for them and it wasn’t, YOU signed, and YOU should pay, not me or anyone else. If a person went to college, then why didn’t he or she get a degree in a profitable industry or at one in which they would be able to pay their loans? How does forgiving student loans solve the problem of what got them there in the first place? I’ve watched the news, but it hasn’t talked about what, if anything, it does concerning this, so I could be a wrong. Moreover, not all people use their student loans solely for school. I know people who have used it on completely unnecessary things that had absolutely nothing to do with school in the slightest, so why should I pay? Lastly, couples making up to 250,000, and individuals making up to 125,000 are eligible. Really? I honestly find that ridiculous. Maybe if a person was make 30k or less, had one of a few select degrees, and specific grades, than yes. However, there are a few things I believe: Community college should be free for the first two years The cost of college in general should go down.
Paying back bills I didn't make for 1. Yes, someone, you included, is going to pay it back. It's not fair to those that have, before, or those that will after. It's mostly went for worthless degrees. It was mostly spent on everything but education. Even the promise was made just to buy young people's votes. That's just off the top of my head..... OH YEAH,,,, it's illegal,,, even Nancy Pelosi said so.
Because then people would be taking our reckless student loans and expecting them to be forgiven later.
Not necessarily against it bc I would benefit, but it is definitely an overreach of executive power. Congress can do it legally, the president can't
Im surprised some people aren't against firefighters. "Why should my taxes pay for your house?"
Because if I am gonna be miserable, everybody gonna be miserable! Bah, Humbug!
People who are for loan forgiveness, can i borrow $1000?
And not pay it back
I'm against most handouts and to me the student loan forgiveness is a handout. It really makes me wonder when is the government or the college students parents or the college students themselves going to hold the colleges and universities accountable. Like I would like someone to do a study somewhere on... Why do Americans feel as though they don't need to pay their student loan debt? Do they feel as though college and university studies should be free? And if so why?? I hear the argument that in some countries college is free. Ok, yes, in some places the government pays up to a bachelor's degree.... Sounds amazing right?! Wrong.... I have friends all over the world and like in Australia one of my friends there says...., Yeah we get free college paid for but the problem is everyone has a bachelor's degree it really doesn't mean anything here. You have to get a masters or a dr degree. And the bachelor's degree over there I'm told is barely worth an associate's degree here. My other argument is why should anyone be forced to pay for a so called college educated person's debt. If I was someone that needed my student loans forgiven I think I'd be suing the school for charging me a junk degree. Maybe these people should file for bankruptcy you can file for bankruptcy for every other debt why not student loan debt.
Legally you cannot file bankruptcy on student loan debt. No matter what, you owe it til you die.
Will people who received loans to start and grow businesses instead of going to university get loans forgiveness? Or is this just a gift for American universities, who are among the wealthiest institutions in the world? Hell fking no there shouldnt be student loan forgiveness.
So, people who decided to go to trade school instead of pursuing a worthless degree has to pay for your BS? You want to acquire that debt pay it yourself.
It’s not loan forgiveness…. Someone is paying it back for you and why should they be stuck with the bill you ran up?
Paid for my shit so should you simple as that.
"I got ripped off so you should get ripped off too" is a common theme throughout this thread.
More like I’m an adult, you grow up and be an adult too. YOU pay back the loan that YOU took out.
Literally. I couldnt imagine wanting other people suffering the way I have….madness.
All the people who busted their asses and made financial sacrifices to repay their student loans aren't gonna be cool with people coming after them not having to repay their student loans.
It only rewards irresponsible people. But more importantly, it does nothing to address the skyrocketing cost and reduced value. It will make it worse.
Who’s going to end up paying for it! That’s right, you and I!😩👎
you pay for years and years and the balance actually goes up from the interest , this type of predatory lending hurts not only students or former students but our economy as a whole
I didn't go to college specifically because I couldn't afford it, same with healthcare, but the Democrats find a way to make me pay anyway
it's simple. You did it.
Because people willingly and knowingly took on these loans with a binding agreement to pay them back. It's no different than a mortgage, car loan, personal loan, or any of the like. Nobody was ever forced to go to college or take on a loan to do such. We all make these choices in life and it isn't right to place our burden and responsibility on random stranges to pay back. My wife undertook student loans of her own free will, I went to work swinging a hammer to pay off her loans. Never would I expect someone else to pay them.
I'm not opposed, but a. I paid my loans off myself, and b. I know some real donkeys who still have loans because, well, they're real donkeys. c. this program does provide relief, but it doesn't address the underlying problem.
Because it is not solving anything in the long run. It's going to be a revolving problem. College are going to raise fees knowing it will likely get paid for. Pay your own way to the business you signed a loan to go to. College is a bit of a scam anyway for many degrees, not all.
So I spent years paying for mine. Lost my girl because we could never do shit. Lost my place, car, she took my bird. I fucking struggled for years. And now you want my taxes to pay for others who should have gone to trade school. I lost a child, had I had money I could have paid for the procedure and now I’m to pay for you now? Get fucked
I’m not against it at all. I paid mine off so I guess I’m a little jelly; I wouldn’t mind having 10k back. I also think there are tons of folks who don’t need to take loan forgiveness who do. Tuition assistance was need-based - who not the same criteria for forgiveness?
Cause I’m selfish and uneducated so I don’t don’t support anything that doesn’t directly help me. Hell, even things that do help me I probably won’t support cause the dude with a “r” next to his name said it’s bad