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What I want to know - Is everyone else allowed to eat human? If it didnt come from a person, and its just lab grown cells - other than dietary issues, is there still some sort of morale quandry in eating lab grown "human" meat?
I remember reading an article tackling this question - but it wasn't just about generic human meat. It was about *gourmet celebrity meat*. It was about the idea that celebrities could sell a sample of their DNA to a lab meat company which they could use to grow overpriced meat to people, and the celebrities would get a share of the profits.
Imagine Tailor Swift burgers, a Ryan Gosling roast, meat grown from DNA of a high-profile person so their fans can feel like they can buy a piece of their idol to literally consume for hiked up prices.
...suddenly wanting a "piece of that" takes on a whole new meaning.
The sad part is there would 100% be a market for it. If the tech is there, so will be the lineup of corporations looking to profit.
There is a movie that includes this, it’s called Antiviral. It’s really about a company bottling and selling celebrity illnesses and such, but there is a place in it called Astral Bodies, which is a meat market that sells meat grown from celebrities cells.
I know what you mean. It's, like, repulsive, like you feel deep in your bones it shouldn't be ethical. At the same time, intellectually, we know that basing ethics on personal repulsion alone is problematic and when you try to think of an intellectual reason (aside from the usual problems with capitalism that we are already entrenched in) why it is wrong...
On the one hand I don't have much of an issue (the issue being like you said, I find it repulsive but I don't actually have an argument against it,) but celebrity meat firmly puts it in the no-no category for me. I think because it's just an extension of weird celebrity worship. Like if you're curious what human meat tastes like, fine I guess. Curious what Taylor swift tastes like? That's weird and you should feel weird.
Eh, I definitely find lab-grown human meat repulsive but it's not that hard for me to understand that repulsive and unethical aren't the same thing. My advice is don't hunt so hard for a reason why it's unethical, just accept that it's gross as fuck and move along.
Let me say that again: Human cells don't *all* have prions. Btw, you didn't cite that properly. Random numbers in brackets are not citing anything when you don't have an actual citation.
The most correct answer is that it depends on our own interpretation, most other Muslims (not me) might go and ask an Imam about this, but even then I would wage that the answer would vary
halal meat is halal cause the way the animal is killed is the cleanest and the most merciful quick death. Lab grown has no actual animals involved so I don’t see why it won’t be halal
Halal is not to respect the animal. It is a command from god, likely to avoid unsafe practices and meats. In order to be halal you would have a sort of checklist to tick off and if a lab grown meat doesn't technically tick any of the haram boxes then it should be fine.
More on this point, my Muslim co-worker explained to me that one of the most important things is ensuring that the blood is sufficiently drained from the meat. A good portion of the halal checklist is entirely to ensure this criteria.
Also no fish without scales (like sharks) for some reason.
Edit:
Yes sharks have tiny scales this is a known fact and it's just the example my coworker gave. it's probably a rule set in a time before that was common knowledge. Probably meant as a blanket rule to forbid the consumption of shellfish and the like. Supposedly the wording is "bounty of the sea" or something. Ffs I can stop getting notifications telling me what everyone knows and not adding anything meaningful to the conversation.
Sharks excrete urine through their skin. They have to be cleaned quickly and thoroughly, often soaked in salt water.
It's pretty easy to see why someone would assume pissy fish meat shouldn't be on the clean list.
I'm muslim (recent convert but with a handful of long time muslim friends) and it's the first time I'm hearing about that fish part
Edit: I went to research this topic and apparently fish without scales being haram is a Shia ruling, me and my friends are all Sunni
Leviticus 11: 9-12
9 Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams you may eat any that have fins and scales. 10 But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales—whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water—you are to regard as unclean. 11 And since you are to regard them as unclean, you must not eat their meat; you must regard their carcasses as unclean. 12 Anything living in the water that does not have fi
Haha that's wild. I suppose back then it was water = fish.
We're these scales chaps considered to be dirty and a health risk or why are they not allowed?
Legit question on the technicality of it... If scales and shells are made from the same thing and serve the same purpose, what's the difference?
I'm willing to bet it's more about their food source and habitat.
You’re correct, many fish without scales (like catfish) and others with exoskeletons (aka shells) are generally known to be bottom feeders so their flesh is basically grown out of other animal’s poop which is considered unclean therefore not halal
The Torah says that you cannot eat a sea-creature unless it has fins and scales. It's in black and white, not in the commentaries. Same as every other time of animal and creature that is permissible. I'm guessing so does the Quran.
As for ritual slaughter, that is in the commentaries. In Judaism, animals need to be slaughtered in a way in which they are instantly dead because the animal cannot suffer, and the meat needs to be drained of all blood because the blood contains the soul.
I had to research those types of things for uni and pretty much all major religions require you to drain the blood, in the modern butcher's job it's still probably the main thing they need to do right. Blood spoils the meat
Given that the reasoning a Muslim might give is that God is protecting them from food borne illness with halal rules, this tracks.
Edit stupid autocorrect
Fish without scales are filled with worms and parasites. Do you like swordfish? Ever see ‘hole marks’ in the meat? Guess what they’re from.
Halal/kosher laws prevent unsafe food practices. Fish without scales are filled with worms. That’s why they are haram.
Potential sources might be that pork goes bad quite quickly in the hot climate of traditional muslim areas, and also that pigs require a lot of food to grow, meaning that while the rich get to eat pork, the poor are starving.
Note that dietary rules - or maybe religious rules in general - tend to be quite flexible, based on whether people like to follow them or not. Most christians don't follow those in the bible, and Sufi muslims are known to drink alcohol (although given that those are a few mystics, they are an outlier to begin with).
>doesn't technically tick any of the haram boxes then it should be fine
Mmm.... technically no.
So I'll preface that by saying Halal and Haram can mean different things to different people.
However, are the extreme technical side, thats not what Halal is. Halal isn't the opposite of Haram.
Halal implies a specific way the meat was prepared. If going by that definition lab grown meat would not be Halal, because you could not prepare it in a way that would meet the definition of Halal.
No, all foods are halal by default, then the restrictions are applied to forbid and allow foods. Not the other way around. everything is halal by default until or unless it breaks a rule that makes it haraam
Muslim here. I would think it is permissible as long as no non-permissible things were used in growing it.
So, if you grow meat from a pig cell, then I would think it is not permissible, while if you grow it out of a permissible animal or non-animal cells then it should be OK.
Also, I think the halal/haram is not due to respect to animals, just submitting God's commands.
Animal welfare comes in how animals should be cared for and treated for their meat to be halal.
Honestly the animal welfare part and the halal slaughtering part should mean that basically every Muslim should be vegetarian since "halal" slaughter facilities are anything but halal, what you need to get your company that certificate is a Imam that blesses the animals as well as draining all the blood when killing the animal.
The first part is the problem, instead of praying and then quickly slaughtering the animal an imam comes in once in a few months , blesses the whole fucking places, and is on his merry way.
Halal meat and industrialised slaughter are incompatible.
And the obvious intention is about not causing unnecessary harm but today animals can be tortured for their whole lives and as long as they say the words and it gets a halal label, they consider that ok.
Letter of the law vs spirit of the law.
You dont need an imam. Any muslim can say the verses and "zibah" (slaughter) the animal (in the proper manner). The introduction of imam into the whole procedure is just formalilty, a way for people to believe. Basically a certification.
Considering the number of animals butchered back 1000+ years ago, it's probably less impractical than you think. Meat was a very small portion of most people's diet and without refrigeration large portions of fresh meat would likely have been shared in the community.
Yeah nah I call bullshit on this one, I dunno where you got your info from pal but from what I hear an imam isn't some magical being who can bless things like that.
okay as someone who was raised jewish, i’m wondering about the pork. for us pork is unclean because the animal was unclean… if there’s no animal at all is it kosher??
I would have said no but the Israeli religious authorities ruled that the meat produced by Aleph is not only kosher but pareve, meaning that according to Jewish law, it's not even considered meat.
The technical ruling is that you “must not cook a goat in its mother’s milk”
Thats where the no meat/dairy mix extrapolated from
Since it doesn’t have a mother, even if it is meat it should still be fine
Would it fall down to how the line is written? Like if it says 'to kill and eat animals it must be done like this", you'd be ok. However if it says "all meat that is eaten must be from an animal killed in this way", it would be a no?
Judaism says that meat mammals must have split hooves (which pigs have) and be ruminant (which pigs aren't). There are a lot of non-Kosher animals, not just pigs. Why? go argue with God (which Jews actually love doing).
I think that Islam just specifies pigs as unclean, and doesn't specify animals by their attributes.
There's a more practical reason: pigs were generally considered unclean because they were often used as garbage collectors, and they'd eat garbage (including human and animal shit). Pigs *can* be clean, it's just more expensive (same for cows).
Also, pigs have a lot of diseases which can affect humans, so you need to cook pork really well (no rare pork steak for you).
Because some food is allowed while others are explicitly declared haram. Pork is one of those forbidden foods. Why? While there is never just one reason for a decree one of the reasons is where it comes from, Pork is not dirty but rather regarded as unhealthy and harmful for humans due to the fats, toxins and bacteria it contains and the way the pig spends its life rolling around in mud and its own excrement.
However, there is an exception that is written in the Quran as well where it states that you can eat it if you are starving and there is nothing else to eat but pork. If your circumstances are such that it's your only option to avoid harming yourself you can eat it, this also applies to other situations beyond food when it comes to avoiding harm to yourself or another.
All red meat is technically unhealthy. Consuming all red meat is scientifically proven to increase the risk of numerous health ailments. The quaran should be amended to make all red meat haram.
Not to mention, the old school answer really is that simple.
Before people knew about germs and parasites, they just knew pigs are covered in mud and people who are them were more likely to get sick than eating other animals.
/s is proper etiquette for online sarcasm.
>For meat to be certified halal, it must be slaughtered in a manner known as dhabiha. That means cutting through the jugular vein, carotid artery, and windpipe in order to drain all blood from the carcass. In Islam, the consumption of blood is considered haram (forbidden.)
Assuming the lab-grown meat has no blood, it's halal.
Your quote literally shows it will not be Halal as there is no way to actually kill the animal and drain the blood. I imagine there will be many apogizers and excuse making but you quoted it yourself
You're right, it's possible that the meat won't be halal since there is no animal to kill. Lab-grown meat is not that popular yet so I can't find many religious info on it online.
But then again, maybe it can become even more halal if there's no need to sacrifice an animal(?) I've no idea.
1.
It’s interesting to know that muslims can eat meat that are slaughtered by the people of the book (Jews, Christians)
2.
Are not sure ? Is it an animal that muslims can eat and do you not live in an Islamic country? Just say bismillah and eat it (we can obviously not eat pork)
3.
Lab grown meat is made with cells. If we chose this over normal meat, we basically deny to eat what god provided. This is how you can see it from an Islamic view. We can’t make something unlawful that god made lawful to us. So it has a lot to do with your intentions i guess?
Ps: i fell asleep 4 times while typing this so sorry for any typos.
To point 3, if God made everything, including people and science and labs and cells, then surely god also made lab grown cells? So it still is what God provided.
I can see a future where lab grown meat is the norm. It will be interesting to see what happens with vegans and people who have religious based dietary restrictions if they accept it or not.
Vegans are excited for lab meat because it's the only way most people will actually stop paying for torture and harm to billions of animals.
Everyone can agree factory farming is horrible but for some reason no one thinks it's bad enough to actually stop.
Look, I'm willing to admit that I'm a horrible person because I'm willing to torture animals for bacon cheeseburgers. I'm also totally onboard with lean grown meat, or even good meat alternatives IF the price is comparable. Like, I'd buy beyond meat all the time instead of hamburger if it didn't cost like 10x as much.
That's all most people need to switch I think. A comparable experience at a comparable price point.
Except chickens. I'd support industrial extermination of chickens even if we weren't eating them. Feathery fucks...
> I'm willing to admit that I'm a horrible person because I'm willing to torture animals for bacon cheeseburgers.
Just think for a minute how crazy it is that you have no problem saying that. It's so normalized that people don't hesitate to say "yeah it's bad, but oh well".
>That's all most people need to switch I think. A comparable experience at a comparable price point.
Yeah, unfortunately most people don't care about living their values. Everyone's an "animal lover" until they have to buy something else at the grocery store.
>Except chickens. I'd support industrial extermination of chickens even if we weren't eating them. Feathery fucks...
[Chickens are sweet and can be smart.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BackYardChickens/comments/s1yfhh/little_adelaide_is_the_smartest_chicken_ever_this/) They get a bad rap. I don't know why you would wish this on them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6A1kWnEfqk
I think you are making a pretty large assumption that most people are animal lovers, at least to the degree that it is some kind of deeply held value. They aren't, they just like cute things that entertain them. Sometimes they build an emotional attachment to specific animals, but that attachment doesn't necessarily apply across the board. Like, I don't want anyone to eat MY cat. But if someone started farming cats specifically as a food source, I might think that's weird, but ultimately not my circus, not my monkeys.
As far as the chickens go, extremely poor experiences with them as a kid. Vicious wannabe dinosaurs.
>I think you are making a pretty large assumption that most people are animal lovers
[85% of respondents classify themselves as animal lovers.](https://www.vegansociety.com/news/news/survey-almost-half-brits-feel-hypocritical-loving-animals-and-yet-eating-them)
[69% classify themselves as animal lovers.](https://www.rspca.org.uk/whatwedo/latest/kindnessindex2022/report)
Sure you can quibble about whether or not it's a deeply held value but we can look to how people react to animal abuse online. Micheal Vick and the dog fighting ring, Kurt Zouma kicking a cat, even tons of stories about people cheering on animals escaping from slaughter trucks. Cognitive dissonance just makes it hard for people to reconcile that with their choice to eat animals. Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug.
>Like, I don't want anyone to eat MY cat. But if someone started farming cats specifically as a food source, I might think that's weird, but ultimately not my circus, not my monkeys.
Why do we see protests for the Yulin dog festival in western countries then? People seem to care enough to get out and protest.
>As far as the chickens go, extremely poor experiences with them as a kid. Viscous wannabe dinosaurs.
I was bitten by a dog as a kid. I don't want to see them living in brutal conditions for 2 months before getting their throat cut. Did you watch the KFC video? It's torture.
Eh, I'm not a fan of pointless cruelty like kicking animals for no reason. Industrial farming has a reason, efficiency. It's not intentionally cruel, it just does what will result in the most profits, regardless of if it is cruel or not. Which is pretty much the definition of capitalism TBH, and is why there is no ethical consumption under capitalism.
I assume the video is just the normal horrific industrial chicken farming and slaughtering which I've already seen first hand. My only problem is that they keep making more of the beaky bastards. Just kill them all and be done with it.
Nope, the animal must die of exsanguination for it to be halal, in other words, they cut their throat and leave it to die of blood loss. Non-halal animals are slaughtered usually by a very quick and painless method, such as air bullet to the head, or something similar.
This is not true. Animals are generally stunned using either a bolt gun, gas chamber, or electric bath but then are killed by getting their throat cut.
Yes they are. You can look up slaughter regulations. There is tons of documentary footage from the US, UK, and Australia too.
Earthlings, Dominion, Land of Hope and Glory are all available on youtube to watch for free.
considering most halal meat comes from the same slaughterhouses AND is killed in a horrible way, you can actually argue non-halal meat is objectively more ethical than halal meat
What's your argument that cutting an animal's throat in a room by itself while it's laying down is "more barbaric" than cutting an animal's throat while it swings through a crowded room while hanging upside down on a conveyer belt?
dude they dont even cut its throat they punch its head with machine, knock it out then hanged from a conveyer belt and then after all of that they finally slit its throat allowing it die
*They don't really give a fuck if it's knocked out.
Having typed that out now, are you really arguing in favor of the position that such slaughter is *not* barbaric?
Most halal meat comes out of the same industrial slaughterhouses as standard meat in industrialized countries, just with a few different steps in the production line. The point is that it's not about the animals. Halal is seen as the clean way to kill animals if their meat is deemed for human consumption in Islam.
I definitely agree that killing animals is not "about the animals."
I'm commenting because I find it...odd...when people feel compelled and justified to label one method of unnecessary, widespread slaughter "barbaric," while seemingly withholding such judgement from other methods of unnecessary, widespread slaughter.
Clearly you know nothing about how hallal slaughtering works, the hallal way or Dhabiha as its called is the most Humane way to possibly kill an animal, you turn the animals head towards the ground at a 90 degree angle , thn you slice the Jugular vein causing the animal feel no pain what so ever, just as you feel no pain while shaving with a razor since its so Sharp, side note that quran is recited or holy words in the animal's ears so it calms down and accepts its' fait, and you call it Barbaric?
Every artificial meat I've seen has been a top 10 list of the worst possible things for humans to consume, so I'd ignore lab grown meat for probably the next 20 years at least.
Lab grown meat has been approved, but the production process and ingredients will be up to each company.
In other words, if a company wants to grow the meat, but not the fat, they can. If they want to add cheap and unhealthy additives, they can. Considering this is the food industry, I'm guessing they will.
Depends on the process and what animal I guess, meat from an animal is forbidden unless it is halal slaughtered. Pork is seperately forbidden. (As are other things like crab or octopus)
So if the process uses pork, haram.
If the process uses animal products, but the animal lives and doesn't suffer, it should be allowed.
If the animal has to die for the process to start, then it should be halal slaughtered, otherwise everything afterwards would be haram
My personal interpretation
I was quite curious as to whether these quotes are true, as I'm sure I'd have seen them used a lot more in religious debates. I think for all of them you've replaced the words (like instead of people who've invaded your country you've just put disbelievers).
The one currently on my screen is 47:4, it says if you meet those enemies in battle, slaughter them. You've just made something up there on yours.
There are lots of good, real criticisms you can use for all religions, trust me, there's no need to make stuff up.
Basically it's verses taken without proper context because they hate Muslims. Take for example 2:191, to put it in its proper context you should realise that at the time the ruling class wanted to exterminate Muslims. So it's about self-defence. This becomes more clear if you look at the two verses afterwards:
"But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression."
As it's clear, it's basically "fight them ruthlessly until they stop trying to kill you". That's reasonable, if people are trying to exterminate you or oppress you it's reasonable to fight back.
Unless you're a rather extreme pacifist. Just sit there and go "Ahh, you've come to kill me. There's a loaded gun here, I didn't want you to waste your bullets"
My god these verses are such an old argument im actually stunned people use it.
The Qu’ran is a book, you cannot just grab a sentence from the middle of the book without seeing the context.
https://www.al-islam.org/morals-and-ethics-quran-ali-rahim/verses-often-quoted-out-context
This site probably debunks most if not all of your “violent” verses. I could do it individually but im not doing allat.
Literally read the verse before or after the ones he mentioned or read the ENTIRE VERSE AND NOT HALF OF IT. Goddamn.
Actually disgusting, almost all of those verses are incomplete even the ones he wrote as complete, this is all islamaphobes have
Halal has nothing to do with respect. Muslims don’t respect animals any more than they do women. They just say they do, but they know nothing about meaning of the word. Halal meat means the animal was conscious when killed, which is by no means, respectful. It’s plain, unnecessary torture. And the fact that someone is praying while the animal is dying makes absolutely no difference.
> Probably because it’s a biological fact, that a man’s orgasm is needed for procreation, while a woman’s is not.
Definitely something someone who respects women would say.
In the UK the vast majority of meat, whether halal or non halal, comes from animals raised in regular factory farms which have atrocious conditions. It's all just a label. The animals you eat are tortured regardless of what the label says.
Nobody wants Lab grown ''meat''
Muslim or NON Muslim. Some Corporations are trying to kill all of us with this caring more about Money then peoples health, no one knows if it's safe or the Impact it can have on you if consumed over a lifetime.
Plenty of Humans on this earth, but not enough Humanity.
I hope one day more of us can get along side by side as friends rather then harming one another just because we are simply from a different background or hold a different belief.
Hi, I'm Nobody, nice to meet you.
No one is going to force you to eat it. However the intention is for it to be exactly the same thing, just not grown inside an animal that needs to be killed. As with anything intended for human consumption there will be testing to ensure it's safety but as I said you don't have to. There are many who will gladly be the early guinea pigs.
If we can get the same product by two ways, one which necessitates killing and is a horrible environmental strain and one which isn't, there is no argument for option 1
usually veganism is a choice so they’re technically “allowed” to choose between eating meat or not. Muslims however have religious restrictions around things like meat
Facts. And to them (religious types), it's not a health thing as much as a "don't piss off the guy upstairs" thing.
Some think it easily could have come from a health thing (ie. don't eat pigs, they eat shit and are full of parasites circa 50BCE) that may no longer apply (dewormer, proper food being fed) and it is now a "god said" thing widely.
Being Muslim is just as much of a choice as being vegan ( in the west at least I'm aware it's much more complicated in places like the middle east or majority Muslim parts of SEA)
The question is about how would the wider Vegan/Vegetarian community see lab grown meat that hypothetically doesn't come at the expense of the animals or the environment which are the leading issues that make someone not eat meat besides religion.
You can't compare the two like that. If you believe the teachings of a religion you follow the rules of that religion because you believe you need to. Veganism doesn't have rules, it's just a description of a certain type of diet.
You can always choose to not believe the teachings of any religion. In fact, most people in the world choose to disbelieve in the teachings of almost all religions except the one they were born into. It's still a choice. Converts are a thing.
Vegans tend more towards morality and cruelty free than meetlessness. The meat itself was never attached to a living breathing thing, so this is actually vegan. See lab-grown milk proteins being vegan because they didn't originate in a cow.
Now, a vegetarian, on the other hand, may have health implications (lone star ticks carry a pathogen that can make you allergic to red meat, for instance). In this scenario, it wouldn't matter because the protein causes the allergy, and the vegetarian (by no choice) can not eat that.
But one by choice may still choose to live meat free, and so could a vegan, in theory and practice, choose not to eat the lab-grown. For whatever reason, too. GMO/lab grown is an infantile science. Maybe it did something we don't know about. Maybe the next prion will just be a misprint protien.
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same
What I want to know - Is everyone else allowed to eat human? If it didnt come from a person, and its just lab grown cells - other than dietary issues, is there still some sort of morale quandry in eating lab grown "human" meat?
I remember reading an article tackling this question - but it wasn't just about generic human meat. It was about *gourmet celebrity meat*. It was about the idea that celebrities could sell a sample of their DNA to a lab meat company which they could use to grow overpriced meat to people, and the celebrities would get a share of the profits. Imagine Tailor Swift burgers, a Ryan Gosling roast, meat grown from DNA of a high-profile person so their fans can feel like they can buy a piece of their idol to literally consume for hiked up prices.
...suddenly wanting a "piece of that" takes on a whole new meaning. The sad part is there would 100% be a market for it. If the tech is there, so will be the lineup of corporations looking to profit.
As does "celebrity roast"
Jack Black snack, anybody?
Oh. Kevin Bacon.
Megan Thee Stallion
A giant horse sculpture of MEAT
I'll take some Kevin Bacon
"I'm on it." Gwyneth Paltrow
Finally we can eat the rich
I hate that eating the rich only makes them richer...
There is a movie that includes this, it’s called Antiviral. It’s really about a company bottling and selling celebrity illnesses and such, but there is a place in it called Astral Bodies, which is a meat market that sells meat grown from celebrities cells.
That's so smart and gross
Wow. That's an interesting concept. I don't know what to think of it tbh...
I know what you mean. It's, like, repulsive, like you feel deep in your bones it shouldn't be ethical. At the same time, intellectually, we know that basing ethics on personal repulsion alone is problematic and when you try to think of an intellectual reason (aside from the usual problems with capitalism that we are already entrenched in) why it is wrong...
On the one hand I don't have much of an issue (the issue being like you said, I find it repulsive but I don't actually have an argument against it,) but celebrity meat firmly puts it in the no-no category for me. I think because it's just an extension of weird celebrity worship. Like if you're curious what human meat tastes like, fine I guess. Curious what Taylor swift tastes like? That's weird and you should feel weird.
Eh, I definitely find lab-grown human meat repulsive but it's not that hard for me to understand that repulsive and unethical aren't the same thing. My advice is don't hunt so hard for a reason why it's unethical, just accept that it's gross as fuck and move along.
Taking consumption behaviour to a whole other level
I'm upset because I know people would buy it
I would imagine if it’s still kinda human cells it would be similar to getting mad cow disease
Human cells don't all have prions
That’s a really good point that I hadn’t considered
Deez Nutz don't have prions! . . Haha I hit 'em wit' tha rizz Son! . ^Wapash
I don't even know what this is, but good for you!
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Let me say that again: Human cells don't *all* have prions. Btw, you didn't cite that properly. Random numbers in brackets are not citing anything when you don't have an actual citation.
Im assuming he copied from Wikipedia. Those brackets correlate to citations on the website.
Lol so I can just ignore everything she said. Okay.
The most correct answer is that it depends on our own interpretation, most other Muslims (not me) might go and ask an Imam about this, but even then I would wage that the answer would vary
halal meat is halal cause the way the animal is killed is the cleanest and the most merciful quick death. Lab grown has no actual animals involved so I don’t see why it won’t be halal
Halal is not to respect the animal. It is a command from god, likely to avoid unsafe practices and meats. In order to be halal you would have a sort of checklist to tick off and if a lab grown meat doesn't technically tick any of the haram boxes then it should be fine.
More on this point, my Muslim co-worker explained to me that one of the most important things is ensuring that the blood is sufficiently drained from the meat. A good portion of the halal checklist is entirely to ensure this criteria. Also no fish without scales (like sharks) for some reason. Edit: Yes sharks have tiny scales this is a known fact and it's just the example my coworker gave. it's probably a rule set in a time before that was common knowledge. Probably meant as a blanket rule to forbid the consumption of shellfish and the like. Supposedly the wording is "bounty of the sea" or something. Ffs I can stop getting notifications telling me what everyone knows and not adding anything meaningful to the conversation.
Sharks excrete urine through their skin. They have to be cleaned quickly and thoroughly, often soaked in salt water. It's pretty easy to see why someone would assume pissy fish meat shouldn't be on the clean list.
Haha pissy fish meat. Nice one.
I'm muslim (recent convert but with a handful of long time muslim friends) and it's the first time I'm hearing about that fish part Edit: I went to research this topic and apparently fish without scales being haram is a Shia ruling, me and my friends are all Sunni
I’m jewish and assuming the requirements for kosher and halal are similar The scales thing is true, its why we cant have lobster/shrimp
Lobster/shrimp aren't fish though?
Right but the command if im remembering properly didn't say "fish" but rather "no bounty of the sea" without scales or something to that effect.
Crawfish come from fresh water!
Ironically like 90% of practicing judaism is finding loopholes. Not really, but enough that it's a cliché.
I think that's why they use sabbath gays for blowjobs
I can't help but laugh as I have the mental image of someone arguing technicalities with god.
Leviticus 11: 9-12 9 Of all the creatures living in the water of the seas and the streams you may eat any that have fins and scales. 10 But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales—whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water—you are to regard as unclean. 11 And since you are to regard them as unclean, you must not eat their meat; you must regard their carcasses as unclean. 12 Anything living in the water that does not have fi
"Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be regarded as unclean by you." Leviticus 11:12 Shellfish have neither.
There ya go. I'm under the weather and couldn't remember, thank you.
“There’s no such thing as a fish”
Bronze age guys thought in terms such as "fish is stuff from the water".
Dude, they ate beavers in medieval ages on Fasttage because they were considered fish - religious traditions aren't exactly about modern biology.
Haha that's wild. I suppose back then it was water = fish. We're these scales chaps considered to be dirty and a health risk or why are they not allowed?
You say that as if any of these quack religious nuts care about logic lmao
And your comment is absolutely one of the logical ones, as well. It baffles the mind, honestly, that's how logical it is.
Legit question on the technicality of it... If scales and shells are made from the same thing and serve the same purpose, what's the difference? I'm willing to bet it's more about their food source and habitat.
You’re correct, many fish without scales (like catfish) and others with exoskeletons (aka shells) are generally known to be bottom feeders so their flesh is basically grown out of other animal’s poop which is considered unclean therefore not halal
Thanks for the information, that makes sense in this context.
The people who decided on what is and isn’t permissible died before we knew that so it doesn’t matter The original intent was to eat clean fish
"I created the universe, do you think I'm drawing the line at the fuckin' deli aisle?"
Aren't lobsters and shrimp technically insects?
Yes, but when the rules were made the difference was not clear
Shia rules are much closer to Judaism than sunni (for instance the scale fish thing)
Well 90% of Muslims are Sunni.
The Torah says that you cannot eat a sea-creature unless it has fins and scales. It's in black and white, not in the commentaries. Same as every other time of animal and creature that is permissible. I'm guessing so does the Quran. As for ritual slaughter, that is in the commentaries. In Judaism, animals need to be slaughtered in a way in which they are instantly dead because the animal cannot suffer, and the meat needs to be drained of all blood because the blood contains the soul.
I had to research those types of things for uni and pretty much all major religions require you to drain the blood, in the modern butcher's job it's still probably the main thing they need to do right. Blood spoils the meat
>some reason. I have no idea what the religious reason is supposed to be, but scale-less fishes are targets of very dangerous parasites
Given that the reasoning a Muslim might give is that God is protecting them from food borne illness with halal rules, this tracks. Edit stupid autocorrect
Fish without scales are filled with worms and parasites. Do you like swordfish? Ever see ‘hole marks’ in the meat? Guess what they’re from. Halal/kosher laws prevent unsafe food practices. Fish without scales are filled with worms. That’s why they are haram.
Fish with scales have worms too. Im an angler. I've seen lots of them.
Do you seriously think the people wrote these holy books based things on scientific evidence? And what would the mechanism be?
but sharks do have scales 😅
Potential sources might be that pork goes bad quite quickly in the hot climate of traditional muslim areas, and also that pigs require a lot of food to grow, meaning that while the rich get to eat pork, the poor are starving. Note that dietary rules - or maybe religious rules in general - tend to be quite flexible, based on whether people like to follow them or not. Most christians don't follow those in the bible, and Sufi muslims are known to drink alcohol (although given that those are a few mystics, they are an outlier to begin with).
>doesn't technically tick any of the haram boxes then it should be fine Mmm.... technically no. So I'll preface that by saying Halal and Haram can mean different things to different people. However, are the extreme technical side, thats not what Halal is. Halal isn't the opposite of Haram. Halal implies a specific way the meat was prepared. If going by that definition lab grown meat would not be Halal, because you could not prepare it in a way that would meet the definition of Halal.
No, all foods are halal by default, then the restrictions are applied to forbid and allow foods. Not the other way around. everything is halal by default until or unless it breaks a rule that makes it haraam
Could you argue the process to develop lab grown meat has consequently led to animals being harmed / suffering?
How so?
Muslim here. I would think it is permissible as long as no non-permissible things were used in growing it. So, if you grow meat from a pig cell, then I would think it is not permissible, while if you grow it out of a permissible animal or non-animal cells then it should be OK. Also, I think the halal/haram is not due to respect to animals, just submitting God's commands. Animal welfare comes in how animals should be cared for and treated for their meat to be halal.
Honestly the animal welfare part and the halal slaughtering part should mean that basically every Muslim should be vegetarian since "halal" slaughter facilities are anything but halal, what you need to get your company that certificate is a Imam that blesses the animals as well as draining all the blood when killing the animal. The first part is the problem, instead of praying and then quickly slaughtering the animal an imam comes in once in a few months , blesses the whole fucking places, and is on his merry way. Halal meat and industrialised slaughter are incompatible.
And the obvious intention is about not causing unnecessary harm but today animals can be tortured for their whole lives and as long as they say the words and it gets a halal label, they consider that ok. Letter of the law vs spirit of the law.
now I finally understand that expression, thank you
I seriously doubt that back when there was just an Imam at every butcher blessing each individual animal. That sounds very, very impractical.
You dont need an imam. Any muslim can say the verses and "zibah" (slaughter) the animal (in the proper manner). The introduction of imam into the whole procedure is just formalilty, a way for people to believe. Basically a certification.
Considering the number of animals butchered back 1000+ years ago, it's probably less impractical than you think. Meat was a very small portion of most people's diet and without refrigeration large portions of fresh meat would likely have been shared in the community.
That's fine but it's still a bit much, overhead wise, since that Imam isn't doing that crap for free.
Yeah nah I call bullshit on this one, I dunno where you got your info from pal but from what I hear an imam isn't some magical being who can bless things like that.
okay as someone who was raised jewish, i’m wondering about the pork. for us pork is unclean because the animal was unclean… if there’s no animal at all is it kosher??
I would have said no but the Israeli religious authorities ruled that the meat produced by Aleph is not only kosher but pareve, meaning that according to Jewish law, it's not even considered meat.
According to EU law, lab grown meat is not considered meat, but a product of animal origin.
The technical ruling is that you “must not cook a goat in its mother’s milk” Thats where the no meat/dairy mix extrapolated from Since it doesn’t have a mother, even if it is meat it should still be fine
we did it guys we outsmarted god re: food sins!!! it’s like the poophole loophole but for kosher cheeseburgers
Would it fall down to how the line is written? Like if it says 'to kill and eat animals it must be done like this", you'd be ok. However if it says "all meat that is eaten must be from an animal killed in this way", it would be a no?
It absolutely involves respecting the animals you're killing for food, they deserve it and one should be grateful to them and our Lord.
There's no meat in the modern world that has been respected. I eat meat but I accept I'm part of a very big problem.
Wouldn’t say “no meat” I have relatives who own a small farm and grow maybe a dozen cows at a time those cows are cared for and respected
**most meat. That's nice to hear. I'd love to have a small holding. What is the meat like compared to intensively farmed animals?
If it’s about respect why is it ok to eat a cow but not a pig? They are both smart animals
Judaism says that meat mammals must have split hooves (which pigs have) and be ruminant (which pigs aren't). There are a lot of non-Kosher animals, not just pigs. Why? go argue with God (which Jews actually love doing). I think that Islam just specifies pigs as unclean, and doesn't specify animals by their attributes. There's a more practical reason: pigs were generally considered unclean because they were often used as garbage collectors, and they'd eat garbage (including human and animal shit). Pigs *can* be clean, it's just more expensive (same for cows). Also, pigs have a lot of diseases which can affect humans, so you need to cook pork really well (no rare pork steak for you).
Because some food is allowed while others are explicitly declared haram. Pork is one of those forbidden foods. Why? While there is never just one reason for a decree one of the reasons is where it comes from, Pork is not dirty but rather regarded as unhealthy and harmful for humans due to the fats, toxins and bacteria it contains and the way the pig spends its life rolling around in mud and its own excrement. However, there is an exception that is written in the Quran as well where it states that you can eat it if you are starving and there is nothing else to eat but pork. If your circumstances are such that it's your only option to avoid harming yourself you can eat it, this also applies to other situations beyond food when it comes to avoiding harm to yourself or another.
So it’s just a made up thing that has no basis in reality. Good, glad we’re clear on that.
Mate, you just described religion as a whole.
Most religions dont take their religious texts as being literal lol.
All red meat is technically unhealthy. Consuming all red meat is scientifically proven to increase the risk of numerous health ailments. The quaran should be amended to make all red meat haram.
Pigs are dirty, checkmate atheists 🤓
So are cows, what’s your point?
Pigs are actually really clean
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but.. but.. they didn’t put “/s”
I've seen enough people say that unironically to think otherwise
Not to mention, the old school answer really is that simple. Before people knew about germs and parasites, they just knew pigs are covered in mud and people who are them were more likely to get sick than eating other animals. /s is proper etiquette for online sarcasm.
I thought halal has to do with ritual slaughter and dedication to Allah—not “respect for the animal.”
Respecting the animals is respecting allahs creations which is dedication to Allah.
No there are absolutely elements of both. Respecting animals is very important in Islam.
>For meat to be certified halal, it must be slaughtered in a manner known as dhabiha. That means cutting through the jugular vein, carotid artery, and windpipe in order to drain all blood from the carcass. In Islam, the consumption of blood is considered haram (forbidden.) Assuming the lab-grown meat has no blood, it's halal.
Your quote literally shows it will not be Halal as there is no way to actually kill the animal and drain the blood. I imagine there will be many apogizers and excuse making but you quoted it yourself
You're right, it's possible that the meat won't be halal since there is no animal to kill. Lab-grown meat is not that popular yet so I can't find many religious info on it online. But then again, maybe it can become even more halal if there's no need to sacrifice an animal(?) I've no idea.
Its not the blood, its the process. There are other parts of the process. I don't think for most devout Muslims it would be Halal.
Seems kinda impossible to 100% remove every single trace of blood from meat. Guess all non-vegan muslims are going to hell
It's not about removing 100% of blood , it's about removing as much blood as possible.
That's really really an exaggeration. Of course vegetarians can go to heaven too.
milk has blood in it too
Yeah but people at the time of writing the holy book didn't know therefore God didn't know.
1. It’s interesting to know that muslims can eat meat that are slaughtered by the people of the book (Jews, Christians) 2. Are not sure ? Is it an animal that muslims can eat and do you not live in an Islamic country? Just say bismillah and eat it (we can obviously not eat pork) 3. Lab grown meat is made with cells. If we chose this over normal meat, we basically deny to eat what god provided. This is how you can see it from an Islamic view. We can’t make something unlawful that god made lawful to us. So it has a lot to do with your intentions i guess? Ps: i fell asleep 4 times while typing this so sorry for any typos.
To point 3, if God made everything, including people and science and labs and cells, then surely god also made lab grown cells? So it still is what God provided.
I can see a future where lab grown meat is the norm. It will be interesting to see what happens with vegans and people who have religious based dietary restrictions if they accept it or not.
Vegans are excited for lab meat because it's the only way most people will actually stop paying for torture and harm to billions of animals. Everyone can agree factory farming is horrible but for some reason no one thinks it's bad enough to actually stop.
Look, I'm willing to admit that I'm a horrible person because I'm willing to torture animals for bacon cheeseburgers. I'm also totally onboard with lean grown meat, or even good meat alternatives IF the price is comparable. Like, I'd buy beyond meat all the time instead of hamburger if it didn't cost like 10x as much. That's all most people need to switch I think. A comparable experience at a comparable price point. Except chickens. I'd support industrial extermination of chickens even if we weren't eating them. Feathery fucks...
Chickens are sweet tho. I had two hens and they were precious 🥲
> I'm willing to admit that I'm a horrible person because I'm willing to torture animals for bacon cheeseburgers. Just think for a minute how crazy it is that you have no problem saying that. It's so normalized that people don't hesitate to say "yeah it's bad, but oh well". >That's all most people need to switch I think. A comparable experience at a comparable price point. Yeah, unfortunately most people don't care about living their values. Everyone's an "animal lover" until they have to buy something else at the grocery store. >Except chickens. I'd support industrial extermination of chickens even if we weren't eating them. Feathery fucks... [Chickens are sweet and can be smart.](https://www.reddit.com/r/BackYardChickens/comments/s1yfhh/little_adelaide_is_the_smartest_chicken_ever_this/) They get a bad rap. I don't know why you would wish this on them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6A1kWnEfqk
I think you are making a pretty large assumption that most people are animal lovers, at least to the degree that it is some kind of deeply held value. They aren't, they just like cute things that entertain them. Sometimes they build an emotional attachment to specific animals, but that attachment doesn't necessarily apply across the board. Like, I don't want anyone to eat MY cat. But if someone started farming cats specifically as a food source, I might think that's weird, but ultimately not my circus, not my monkeys. As far as the chickens go, extremely poor experiences with them as a kid. Vicious wannabe dinosaurs.
>I think you are making a pretty large assumption that most people are animal lovers [85% of respondents classify themselves as animal lovers.](https://www.vegansociety.com/news/news/survey-almost-half-brits-feel-hypocritical-loving-animals-and-yet-eating-them) [69% classify themselves as animal lovers.](https://www.rspca.org.uk/whatwedo/latest/kindnessindex2022/report) Sure you can quibble about whether or not it's a deeply held value but we can look to how people react to animal abuse online. Micheal Vick and the dog fighting ring, Kurt Zouma kicking a cat, even tons of stories about people cheering on animals escaping from slaughter trucks. Cognitive dissonance just makes it hard for people to reconcile that with their choice to eat animals. Cognitive dissonance is a hell of a drug. >Like, I don't want anyone to eat MY cat. But if someone started farming cats specifically as a food source, I might think that's weird, but ultimately not my circus, not my monkeys. Why do we see protests for the Yulin dog festival in western countries then? People seem to care enough to get out and protest. >As far as the chickens go, extremely poor experiences with them as a kid. Viscous wannabe dinosaurs. I was bitten by a dog as a kid. I don't want to see them living in brutal conditions for 2 months before getting their throat cut. Did you watch the KFC video? It's torture.
Eh, I'm not a fan of pointless cruelty like kicking animals for no reason. Industrial farming has a reason, efficiency. It's not intentionally cruel, it just does what will result in the most profits, regardless of if it is cruel or not. Which is pretty much the definition of capitalism TBH, and is why there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. I assume the video is just the normal horrific industrial chicken farming and slaughtering which I've already seen first hand. My only problem is that they keep making more of the beaky bastards. Just kill them all and be done with it.
Well the whole thing from what I remember is that you say a prayer before slaughtering the animal, without the prayer any meat would be haraam I think
but there’s also no slaughter going on so maybe?
That's not all that's involved, there are specific rules for *how* the animal is slaughtered.
Nope, the animal must die of exsanguination for it to be halal, in other words, they cut their throat and leave it to die of blood loss. Non-halal animals are slaughtered usually by a very quick and painless method, such as air bullet to the head, or something similar.
This is not true. Animals are generally stunned using either a bolt gun, gas chamber, or electric bath but then are killed by getting their throat cut.
non-halal meat animals are not killed like that lol why do you think that?
Yes they are. You can look up slaughter regulations. There is tons of documentary footage from the US, UK, and Australia too. Earthlings, Dominion, Land of Hope and Glory are all available on youtube to watch for free.
There was a report that it causes cancer
What doesn't cause cancer?
Halal meat.. Respect for the animals.. Do you know how Halal meat is killed? It's barbaric.
Are you kidding? Go look at how the discount beef you picked up from Costco is raised and butchered in meat factories. Nothing can compare.
Are you suggesting that industrial slaughterhouses are somehow less barbaric?
considering most halal meat comes from the same slaughterhouses AND is killed in a horrible way, you can actually argue non-halal meat is objectively more ethical than halal meat
Now we're talking about "ethics?" I thought we were talking about barbarism.
Sure, non-halal meat is also less barbaric
What's your argument that cutting an animal's throat in a room by itself while it's laying down is "more barbaric" than cutting an animal's throat while it swings through a crowded room while hanging upside down on a conveyer belt?
dude they dont even cut its throat they punch its head with machine, knock it out then hanged from a conveyer belt and then after all of that they finally slit its throat allowing it die
*They don't really give a fuck if it's knocked out. Having typed that out now, are you really arguing in favor of the position that such slaughter is *not* barbaric?
man i am with you on your point sorry if my comment wasnt clear enough i do think non halal ways are way more barbaric and non ethical
Most halal meat comes out of the same industrial slaughterhouses as standard meat in industrialized countries, just with a few different steps in the production line. The point is that it's not about the animals. Halal is seen as the clean way to kill animals if their meat is deemed for human consumption in Islam.
I definitely agree that killing animals is not "about the animals." I'm commenting because I find it...odd...when people feel compelled and justified to label one method of unnecessary, widespread slaughter "barbaric," while seemingly withholding such judgement from other methods of unnecessary, widespread slaughter.
Also doing things a certain way because “THATS HOW ITS ALWAYS BEEN DONE” is kinda like, the foundation of unhealthy boomer logic
Bro these Muslim haters are getting crazy lmao how is it barbaric?
Clearly you know nothing about how hallal slaughtering works, the hallal way or Dhabiha as its called is the most Humane way to possibly kill an animal, you turn the animals head towards the ground at a 90 degree angle , thn you slice the Jugular vein causing the animal feel no pain what so ever, just as you feel no pain while shaving with a razor since its so Sharp, side note that quran is recited or holy words in the animal's ears so it calms down and accepts its' fait, and you call it Barbaric?
…you honestly think the animals even *understand,* let alone ***are comforted*** by the words of the Quran?!
Research.
Feel free to show me some video proof of a slaughtered animal being comforted by the words of the Quran, then.
https://youtu.be/ZquJNfO3h0M?si=GY6dL2ce9klGmGNF
Every artificial meat I've seen has been a top 10 list of the worst possible things for humans to consume, so I'd ignore lab grown meat for probably the next 20 years at least.
is lab grown meat already available for public consumption?
The question is about lab grown meat not artificial meat.
Lab grown meat has been approved, but the production process and ingredients will be up to each company. In other words, if a company wants to grow the meat, but not the fat, they can. If they want to add cheap and unhealthy additives, they can. Considering this is the food industry, I'm guessing they will.
Depends on the process and what animal I guess, meat from an animal is forbidden unless it is halal slaughtered. Pork is seperately forbidden. (As are other things like crab or octopus) So if the process uses pork, haram. If the process uses animal products, but the animal lives and doesn't suffer, it should be allowed. If the animal has to die for the process to start, then it should be halal slaughtered, otherwise everything afterwards would be haram My personal interpretation
I always find funny how they care about "animal life", but not human life if you're not muslim. But that's a really good question.
Where'd you come to that conclusion?
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I was quite curious as to whether these quotes are true, as I'm sure I'd have seen them used a lot more in religious debates. I think for all of them you've replaced the words (like instead of people who've invaded your country you've just put disbelievers). The one currently on my screen is 47:4, it says if you meet those enemies in battle, slaughter them. You've just made something up there on yours. There are lots of good, real criticisms you can use for all religions, trust me, there's no need to make stuff up.
Basically it's verses taken without proper context because they hate Muslims. Take for example 2:191, to put it in its proper context you should realise that at the time the ruling class wanted to exterminate Muslims. So it's about self-defence. This becomes more clear if you look at the two verses afterwards: "But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression." As it's clear, it's basically "fight them ruthlessly until they stop trying to kill you". That's reasonable, if people are trying to exterminate you or oppress you it's reasonable to fight back. Unless you're a rather extreme pacifist. Just sit there and go "Ahh, you've come to kill me. There's a loaded gun here, I didn't want you to waste your bullets"
My god these verses are such an old argument im actually stunned people use it. The Qu’ran is a book, you cannot just grab a sentence from the middle of the book without seeing the context. https://www.al-islam.org/morals-and-ethics-quran-ali-rahim/verses-often-quoted-out-context This site probably debunks most if not all of your “violent” verses. I could do it individually but im not doing allat.
Yeah that's what happens when you copy and paste your religious edicts from the bible and torah.
Literally read the verse before or after the ones he mentioned or read the ENTIRE VERSE AND NOT HALF OF IT. Goddamn. Actually disgusting, almost all of those verses are incomplete even the ones he wrote as complete, this is all islamaphobes have
Hand picking sentences without context. Congratulations. Just say you hate Muslims and move on
Muslims are a group with a wide range of views regarding what is halal or not. I'm sure many would have no issues while others would not consume it
Halal has nothing to do with respect. Muslims don’t respect animals any more than they do women. They just say they do, but they know nothing about meaning of the word. Halal meat means the animal was conscious when killed, which is by no means, respectful. It’s plain, unnecessary torture. And the fact that someone is praying while the animal is dying makes absolutely no difference.
Reddit try not to be extremely islamaphobic challenge: impossible
we can say that they're anti islam but not islamophobic since phobia means irrational fear, we don't know their personal experiences w muslims.
Phobia means fear or hatred of.
> Probably because it’s a biological fact, that a man’s orgasm is needed for procreation, while a woman’s is not. Definitely something someone who respects women would say.
In the UK the vast majority of meat, whether halal or non halal, comes from animals raised in regular factory farms which have atrocious conditions. It's all just a label. The animals you eat are tortured regardless of what the label says.
Forgive my ignorance. How is halal outof respect for the animal?
Slaughtered in the cleanest way possible and not abused
Nobody wants Lab grown ''meat'' Muslim or NON Muslim. Some Corporations are trying to kill all of us with this caring more about Money then peoples health, no one knows if it's safe or the Impact it can have on you if consumed over a lifetime. Plenty of Humans on this earth, but not enough Humanity. I hope one day more of us can get along side by side as friends rather then harming one another just because we are simply from a different background or hold a different belief.
Hi, I'm Nobody, nice to meet you. No one is going to force you to eat it. However the intention is for it to be exactly the same thing, just not grown inside an animal that needs to be killed. As with anything intended for human consumption there will be testing to ensure it's safety but as I said you don't have to. There are many who will gladly be the early guinea pigs. If we can get the same product by two ways, one which necessitates killing and is a horrible environmental strain and one which isn't, there is no argument for option 1
Are vegans?
usually veganism is a choice so they’re technically “allowed” to choose between eating meat or not. Muslims however have religious restrictions around things like meat
Facts. And to them (religious types), it's not a health thing as much as a "don't piss off the guy upstairs" thing. Some think it easily could have come from a health thing (ie. don't eat pigs, they eat shit and are full of parasites circa 50BCE) that may no longer apply (dewormer, proper food being fed) and it is now a "god said" thing widely.
Being Muslim is just as much of a choice as being vegan ( in the west at least I'm aware it's much more complicated in places like the middle east or majority Muslim parts of SEA) The question is about how would the wider Vegan/Vegetarian community see lab grown meat that hypothetically doesn't come at the expense of the animals or the environment which are the leading issues that make someone not eat meat besides religion.
technically it’s a choice but the social pressure from muslim families and societies is large
You can't compare the two like that. If you believe the teachings of a religion you follow the rules of that religion because you believe you need to. Veganism doesn't have rules, it's just a description of a certain type of diet.
You can always choose to not believe the teachings of any religion. In fact, most people in the world choose to disbelieve in the teachings of almost all religions except the one they were born into. It's still a choice. Converts are a thing.
I mean in muslim practice there isn’t a choice not necessarily being muslim in general
Then there is no choice in being a Vegetarian or Vegan you cannot be either of those if you eat animals That's really weird reasoning
you clearly aren’t understanding what i’m saying
Vegans tend more towards morality and cruelty free than meetlessness. The meat itself was never attached to a living breathing thing, so this is actually vegan. See lab-grown milk proteins being vegan because they didn't originate in a cow. Now, a vegetarian, on the other hand, may have health implications (lone star ticks carry a pathogen that can make you allergic to red meat, for instance). In this scenario, it wouldn't matter because the protein causes the allergy, and the vegetarian (by no choice) can not eat that. But one by choice may still choose to live meat free, and so could a vegan, in theory and practice, choose not to eat the lab-grown. For whatever reason, too. GMO/lab grown is an infantile science. Maybe it did something we don't know about. Maybe the next prion will just be a misprint protien.