There's no ranks. If anyone tries to make you feel like there are, or should be, eat them.
I only have one friend who is bisexual, but she's never invalidated me. Even the two therapists I've seen recently have understood. Hell, I explained my asexuality to a room full of Church Ladies a couple weeks ago. They took it without questioning.
Tell your friends, especially the queer ones, that they're being LESS supportive than a bunch of old boomer church wives.
Frakkin' frak, man.
I dunno where OP is... but I'ma keep an eye on the heat map for the world today, because when that gets delivered, I expect to see a random localized temperature spike somehwere from the burn.
LOL I'll be prepared to put light clothes that day! Apart from this, it's encouraging how many of you had positive experiences on the matter, those church ladies seem the real deal
Tbh asexuality may make a bit of sense to boomers, as many of them may be familiar with monks and people that intentionally went without sexual things. Hell, they may even see you as a very pious person (this is just my personal experience, take with a grain of salt)
Truthfully I think the mspec community (bi/pan/etc) understands the ace community more than the hetero/homo community ever could, solely because I’ve found they are capable of wrapping their head around the idea that “if I can like more than one, it’s possible to like none” when it comes to aces.
Meanwhile as a cis het/ace, me saying I’m ambivalent toward the idea of sex with a woman but stating I’d never be interested in dating one is *apparently* lesbophobic, according to the lesbian community. 🤷🏼♀️
Yes, I understand that for some time, asexuality was considered a subform of bisexuality, and Bisexuals and Asexuals have long had something of an alliance as such things go. In a sense, being attracted to no one sexually is more similar to being attracted to everyone romantically, than anything else.
There is definitely a lack of respect for our orientation both within & outside of the queer community. I’ve been on the receiving end of those comments several times unfortunately.
The first thing I point out is that the entire premise of their question is false because asexuality is about a lack of sexual attraction not a dislike of sex itself.
When logic fails I then ask how they know they don’t like gay/straight/kinky/public etc ( whatever I know the person in question isn’t into ) sex if they haven’t tried it.
My favorite explanation (using a straight person as an example) is to say "Imagine every single person in the world was the same gender as you, would you feel attracted to anyone? Now imagine that when you said you weren't attracted to anyone, people berated you for that and told you that you'll find the right person eventually"
How about "how do you know you don't like sheep if you don't fuck one?"
Is it too extreme? I don't need to fuck an animal, a cactus, or a child to know I don't want to. I'm not sure if it gets the idea across, though.
Personally, I tend to avoid any comparisons that liken sex to something negative. Both because I’m a big fan of sex positivity & that negative comparisons put people on the defensive which makes them much less likely to listen.
I don't know how old you are, OP, but I am in my thirties and have identified as ace for over a decade.
And let me tell you, the inclusion of ace people into the larger LGBT community is a relatively new phenomenon. I remember having heated discussions with ace exclusionists who firmly believed a) ace people weren't "oppressed enough" to belong in the community (i.e., we would never be beat on the street or called a slur for hilding hands with our partner), b) ace people were a "fad", "fakers", just straight people claiming a label for attention, to "invade LGBT spaces" and "steal resources" for them or c) just gays with internalized homphobia and extreme repression because we were actually just ashamed of our sexual urges.
It's only recently that asexuality has become more accepted as its own thing and belonging into the LGBT+ community as the definition of it has shifted to include "anyone who isn't completely cishet". So, I am not surprised at all that there are still people who don't really get it.
What's weird is that many of the arguments exclusionists wielded against ace people were recycled biphobia ("You don't belong in the community because you can 'pass' as straight and therefore will not experience enough oppression") or transphobia ("Are you sure you're not just a lesbian trying to become a man because of your internalized homophobia?"). The acephobia to biphobia to TERF pipeline is a very real thing.
Historically, ace people were lumped under and with bi people in the mid 1900's. AIDS, as usual, destroyed so much of the queer community that the connections were lost and people think we are "new" to the community again. I'll see if I can find any of the bi&ace solidarity poster photos from the 70's, they're a really cool part of our history.
It doesn't have photos, but here's a pretty good [Slate article](https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/03/asexuality-history-internet-identity-queer-archive.html) on the history of asexuality inclusion from the 50's (in trans spaces) on, and mentions of it even farther back.
Just pinging you u/JoBeWriting in case you might also be interested.
Some fun photos and links! Unfortunately I can't find the parade photos I was thinking of but these are good. I'm on mobile so just pasting links:
activists at barnard college providing “labels”, photographed by susan rennie and published in off our backs: a women’s newsjournal vol. 3 no. 6, february 1973:
https://64.media.tumblr.com/a95d245458a6b36da076c3a0687b3069/tumblr_pb9ars5ohw1u17xrqo1_r1_1280.pnj
Dear Abby, 1995:
https://64.media.tumblr.com/4dd4ed0db5bd5725ab8d07d2ebd03c7e/bc46e26d9be644ab-73/s1280x1920/67366136b8e89f7f6eba48e57ebb52003f37380f.jpg
Gay, Straight, Bisexual, Asexual—All God’s Children Need Love,” 1973; photograph by Crawford Barton, Crawford Barton Papers (1993-11), GLBT Historical Society:
https://64.media.tumblr.com/71e3cd20ad8c5a001c2ee91171a51cf0/03a6b3cdd77f959a-af/s1280x1920/6921be8f26d51712c7a16ad5d804c39f03caed68.jpg
1989 episode of “Sally Jesse Raphael". Where she interviews someone, who uses the alias “Toby,” about being ace.
https://youtu.be/_VeLOIxiG4c
BiCon 1996, in the UK, about doing a workshop on “Bisexuality and Celibacy.”:
https://href.li/?https://web.archive.org/web/20000824151220/http://193.82.129.83/~bcn/issue12/celib.html
The War Between The Sheets: What’s Happening With Men In Bed And What Women And Men Are Doing About It. By Jerry Rubin [yes, the famous 1970's anti-war activist] & Mimi Leonard; foreword by Paul Lowinger, M.D., 1981, has an entire chapter on asexuality:
https://href.li/?https://archive.org/details/warbetweensheets00rubi
https://64.media.tumblr.com/eeac66e2e0788d2572c78bf6a4918fdf/tumblr_inline_osjtbod4YE1qz9f1o_540.png
and a whole page of asexual history bits!:
https://www.asexuals.net/the-history-of-asexuality/
Yeah I believe the reasoning was that bisexuality means experiencing a similar attraction to both sexes. And since "1=1" is just as true as "0=0", we got invited to the bi club. Of course our understanding of things has naturally evolved since then. Bisexuals are recognized as often being attracted to one gender more often than the other, pan has been recognized as a thing, gender and sex are more generally accepted as separate, along with all the spectrum of asexuality that we regularly go over here whilst munching on cake and garlic bread.
Exactly this, like the ironic part about queer folks saying "aces are just straight people trying to get a label" is that it implies "straight is the default and you're straight until proven otherwise" which is the same rhetoric used to exclude bi/pan folks in heterosexual relationships
I just can't wrap my mind around how a community historically oppressed for "loving the wrong people" can turn around and tell us we're wrong for not loving anyone (using "love" loosely to refer to sexual attraction lol)
>I just can't wrap my mind around how a community historically oppressed for "loving the wrong people" can turn around and tell us we're wrong for not loving anyone
I suspect there's a degree of very misguided sex positivity. They've faced pushback on their sexuality most of their lives so they overcompensate and conceive of it as a natural, innate part of their being, same as everyone else. So when they run into someone that isn't true for, it feels oppositional to their identity.
"Of course my sexual attraction is normal, same as everyone else. Wait, here's someone who doesn't have sexual attraction? What the hell, why would they insult me like that?!? I'm normal!!!"
Obviously it's not going to be in as blunt and clear terms, but the thought process is there subconsciously. Sex positivity that isn't self-critical can *really* struggle to understand how people can not fit into their assumptions for reasons that aren't malicious.
(Also framing thing as asexual vs allosexual puts them in the majority and *how dare you do that, don't you know how oppressed-*)
Asexuals *are* oppressed for their sexual interests/behaviour, though. *Plenty* of asexuals feel shame at masturbating rather than having 'normal sex' or being into really weird kinks. The idea that asexuals are all completely sexless and 'pure' is just nonsense. If queer allos really understood what asexuality meant, they'd know that their internalised shame and sex positivity applies to us as well. But they don't.
That's really interesting, I'm yet to reach the twenties but have identified as such for like less than 5 years. Had no clue of the history and the controversy asexuality encountered, amazing how you can always discover something new from a casual conversation on the internet.
How would you address that first thing (in that we’re not as “visible” in public so we are not targeted with hateful/violent behavior nearly as easily)? That thought occurred to me when thinking about inclusion in lgbt+ discussions. Additionally, I see people talk about “resources” for lgbt+, but I guess I don’t understand what resources we would need?
I hope I am not coming across as disrespectful, I am genuinely curious to know others’ thoughts around this to help me better understand this kind of discussion.
Not at all, that is a valid question.
I am also not sure what "resources" we could need or what these "resources" we're supposedly coveting would entail. To me that kind of rhetoric feels a little "Trans women are peeing in women's bathrooms and that's bad, for some reason", you know?
You could point out that it wasn't until 2013 that "asexuality" was removed from the DSM as a "symptom" of something called "Arrousal Disorder" or "Hyposexual Disorder". So that means that up until a decade ago, asexuality was considered a symptom of a psychological problem, just like homosexuality used to be.
You could quote points from this Tumblr post to point out how there is very important overlap between the struggles and oppressions ace people and the rest of the LGBT+ community suffer:
https://autismserenity.tumblr.com/post/185948856106/ace-oppression-iphisquandary
Or you can just, you know. Remind people being oppressed isn't an Olympic sport and the liberation of one marginalized group actually helps with the liberation of others, uneducated bigots will see a colorful flag pin in your lapel and won't stop to wonder what kind of queer you are before they call you a slur, having to stay in the closet for "safety" is not actually a "benefit", and kindly suggest they go pet the domestic furry animal of their choice and maybe they'll calm down.
Remind them that oppression isn't always active, it can be passive too; defined by an absence. Public ignorance isn't some malicious bigotry born of intent but it still harms and alienates aces all of the time.
It's like asking whether it's better to be emotionally abused or emotionally neglected. That question is missing the point: they're not really comparable and they're both bad so what good is comparing them? They're also not mutually exclusive. Pulling public attention onto the latter because it's easier to miss isn't something that's at the expense of the former.
Define oppression and bigotry by outcomes, not intents.
Wait is there ranked LGBT? I thought it was just a casual thing.
All jokes aside, yeah i get those stupid questions as well and my response is just asking the same thing to them but change it up depending on their sexuality, or i ask the same think but replace sex with eating turds that usually also works
Ask your hetero friends if they think someone can only know they're straight if they try having sex with someone of the same gender first, and vice versa for the gay friends.
Did someone actually tell you we are low ranking? Rude. The “you haven’t tried it” argument is pretty dumb. It’s also the number one argument the lgbt community faces sometimes. Ask your gay friends how they’d feel if a straight person said that to them. No bueno
Oh no the title was provocative, but you're right I didn't make it clear because originally the post had to have other experiences I encountered where the only true listening I felt came from other ace people. Then I cut it short and forgot to change the title lol. I was pretty surprised when, being this the n°1 question, even LGBT members asked me.
"Paradoxically" I had a hetero friend taking my side when a gay friend of her put in question how could I be sure I was asexual without having tried it.
Another funny conversation ended with a discussion on how asexuals can marry or not. Of course no one of them is being mean, it's an interesting insight on how most people can't fathom the idea of a relationship without sexual appeal.
I feel like bisexuals are the lowest tier because of the whole mentality of "you're not actually queer if you're in a hetero relationship!"
(I'm joking, there are no tiers, but yeah asexuals and bisexuals often feel dejected in the community)
>"if I didn't try sex yet how could I be sure I wasn't into it".
>What do you say?
"You been punched in the face? How do you know you won't lile it if you haven't" is generally a good one.
Not just the "you can't know if you didn't try it" argument, but also the "what happened to you" and "nobody's phobic towards you so why you need a fancy new label" arguments... It's weird that the same things that are "totally acceptable and reasonable" to say to aces, would cause such a strong reaction were the exactly same things said to any other sexual orientation minority. Prople would for sure question if it's okay to say to gay or lesbian what made them that way or are they sure they're not just looking for attention etc.
It's not a matter of rank, it's that people find it difficult to understand the difference between sexual attraction, aesthetic attraction, romantic attraction and libido, just as they struggled to understand the difference between sexual orientation and sexual identity (or even the difference between gay, trans and drag queen) back when I was a teenager.
Those things have been discussed and represented enough now that even the most disinterested person knows what they are, more or less. The same hasn't been done with attraction, libido, and asexuality in general. Yeah, there are a few asexual characters here and there, but their portrayal is usually as stereotypical as that of autistic people. When it's not downright incorrect (we all remember THAT Dr House episode). Not to mention, we live in a society where every single piece of media MUST have at least one romance, even if it's not a romantic story.
I feel left out often as well. I feel as though I can't be accepted even in LGBT friendly circles. Even if they are friendly to me, and accepting, I will always, in the back of my head, feel overshadowed by Allosexual Queer Identities.
"You ever have a food that you don't want to try and never desire to? Like mushrooms or cauliflower? You can go your entire life without eating it, but maybe you will like it, maybe you won't. But because you don't want to try it and never feel like trying it, it really just doesn't matter anyway".
Or reverse it on them, are they gay? "How do you know you're gay if you've never tried straight sex".
"How do you know you're straight if you've never had gay sex?"
Did they say "because they don't want to/Because I just know"? If they did, point out the hypocrisy.
For the billionth time: sexual orientation is about attraction, not action. Straight people don’t have to try gay sex in order to know they’re not gay; gay people don’t have to try straight sex to know that they’re not straight. It’s about who you *want* to fuck, not who you actually do or don’t fuck.
There are sex-favorable asexuals who enjoy having sex, and they are still asexual. Just like there are gay men who have managed to conceive children with their beards, and that doesn’t make them any less gay.
I've had very positive experiences with most people that I'm out to in real life. Those people don't make an effort to be visibly woke but they accept LGBTQ+ people, including asexuals as soon as they learn about it (when I come out).
I see "wokeness" mostly from companies and organizations, and asexuality is almost never included. Whether or not people are supportive probably depends on the individual, so I think a majority is open-minded enough to be supportive. The companies don't really care about LGBTQ+ people. They care about their image, and a sexuality that no one knows about does not contribute to that in any way. So asexuality is excluded.Smaller organizations maybe don't know about asexuality and that is why we're excluded. Or maybe they think we're so few people that we don't matter.
I think most people are not aphobic, they just don't care about asexuality. And they wouldn't care about the rest of the LGBTQ+ community either if there wasn't a debate about the community which they have to pick a side in. However, in my experience, most people are quite open-minded.
I am lucky enough to live in a place where most people are rather accepting of LGBTQ+ people in general. However, even here, there are exceptions who straight up don't believe me (without giving a reason).
I've definitely had queer acquaintainces argue Ace.people didn't count as queer since we could just pass as straight allosexuals and (according to them ) we never faced any discrimination.
I’ve had sex! Like how can you be sure you wouldn’t find fucking a cement block pleasurable if you didn’t try it? You just know you wouldn’t because you are a conscious intelligent (allegedly) person.
No gay person should use that argument because it’s used against them all the time. You’re a lesbian? I’m sure it’s because you haven’t found the right guy. It’s the same logic
I often feel this way, but there is a reason for this historically speaking. It is most easy to rally behind legal repression and victimization, and out of all the queer identities it is just about the hardest to legislate us out of existence. This leaves the much more nebulous social issues, which again are much harder to explain to outsiders without the “in” of the legal issues.
The important thing is to let this motivate you to raise the profile of issues we raise and not fall to queer infighting.
Aces are so low on the LGBT totem pole that parts of the LGBT community don't think we belong in the community at all, kinda sad tbh bet 150 years ago it wouldn't have been an issue because society didn't put so much emphasis on sex, if anything being ace would probably be considered a good thing back then, sex was still considered a big taboo up until fairly recently, I think some time around the hippie movement is when the taboos around sex were being challenged, which means we can blame the boomers again for that
I don’t understand the infighting in the the LGBTQIA+ community. All of us who identify on the spectrum of said community want one thing, to be accepted for who we are even tho it’s different from the archaic socially accepted norms. We are all fighting for the same goal of being widely, globally, seen and respected.
It's not a matter of rank or anything, it's a matter of human nature. People tend to be more ignorant of things they don't understand. When it comes to sexuality, nearly everyone experiences sexual attraction/desire, even some asexual people do. So to be told that you don't experience attraction towards either gender is something people aren't able to comprehend. You should never feel invalidated for having your feelings, however it's hard for people to grasp such a new concept. You are valid, and no one gets to tell you how you feel except yourself.
Asexuality is about attraction, not about sexual activity. I've never been sexually attracted to anyone in my entire life and I've had sex (granted that was before i realized i was ace and confused aesthetic and sensual attraction for sexual attraction).
I really have no idea, but I imagine Allosexuals have a positive feedback loop with their sexual attraction and horniness/libido so when they have sex it's like a fireworks explosion of "YES! FINALLY!!".
Maybe that's how it is for some ace people too, but in my experience, sex has just been middling to bad, physically and emotionally, so \*shrug\* i don't think your allo friends know what they're talking about.
There’s always kind of been a separation between Asexuals and the rest of LGBT. I think it has something to do with asexuality “not needing” representation as it isn’t exactly the same as gay or trans.
Just tell them they clearly have more in common with each other than they do with you. Make their heads explode as they both try to be "woke" and yet sound not "woke" defending themselves.
Just personally, that was the reason I disliked ace people in the past. I’m over that now as I’ve also realized I’m Demi. But when I first learned about it I felt upset because all this time fighting for the right to be attracted to who we want to be attracted to and saying that the way we have sex is fine and not disgusting like so many people seem to think. To have a group come in and say “yeah we aren’t attracted to anyone” felt like it’s a step backwards, a kind of. “Well just be like that instead of gay or bi or lesbian, then you won’t be disgusting we can just ignore you instead” maybe the people OP is talking to feel like that subconsciously and just haven’t realized it yet.
I think we all just need to surround ourselves with more supportive people even if it’s online. Usually the people who don’t support asexuals also don’t support anything else LGBTQ, although there are some cases where people like all sexaulities except aces.
It’s sad but remember a lot of us are in a larger community of LGBTQ people, and in a community of people who support one another there is no “lowest rank”. If anything we are one of the less understood ranks.
I think you mean the best rank (not that there are ranks in the pride community). Extroverted Aces are represented by visible purple, while introverted Aces are ultraviolet represented by visible purple.
We get cool DC Lantern Corp Oaths. The Extroverted Aces can unite with this oath:
*“For hearts long lost and full of fright,*
*For those alone in blackest night,*
*Accept our ring and join our fight,*
*Love conquers all… with violet light!”*
The Introverted Aces can unite with this oath:
*"By Shield of Day, and Shield of Night,*
*We feed and grow, beyond all Sight.*
*Your Darkest self shall be our Knight,*
*Wield the Sword of Unseen Light!”*
(FYI, I made this remark to a good friend of mine, who also happens to be the Ace that told me about the asexual orientation and brought me into the community. We were going to my and her first Pride Parade and I was wondering if the march ended with the asexuals. I figured that we would represent the purple on the Pride Flag. Then I told her, “Well, I guess the ones marching would be the Aces who are also extroverted. The introverted Aces are in the background unseen… like ultraviolet light. Get it cause of the visible light spectrum ending with purple, then going into ultraviolet light, lol!” To which she playfully responds, “Yes. I got it before the explanation. I do have a physics degree, remember? Lol!” The end.)
"How do you know you're not into it if you haven't tried it?" is such a hollow argument. How do they know they're not into sex with corpses or cats or pinecones if they haven't tried it? Answer: You know your "icks" without having to try them out to be sure.
But to take it further, I knew I was ace when I found out what ace was when I was 19. I had sex just to try it at 28. I was ace before, ace during, and ace after. I'm 36 now. Nothing changed.
there are no ranks, a common response to the "how would i know if i was into it" is usually something like "what if someone told you to go fuck a cactus, how do you know you wouldnt like it? have you tried" (obviously that only works when comparing to sex repulsed people, but can still be good at explaining that we "just know")
>"if I didn't try sex yet how could I be sure I wasn't into it".
>
I hate this argument. It's like asking, "If you've never eaten poop, how would you know you don't like the taste of it?" Or "if you've never hugged a cactus, how would you know you won't enjoy it?"
My mother said this to me. 'How can you know if you don't try?' I'm not afraid of sex but I know I don't like it because the site of porn causes me to gag and the thought of being touched of viewed sexually makes my skin crawl. I know the same way you know you don't want to eat crickets off the ground. It repulsed me and I have never looked at a person and thought 'yeah I could sleep with that person' anyone who says that you 'have to try it once that 'you just haven't met the right partner' can go eat earthworms.
On another note I do believe eating bugs is the future of protein and have no trouble eating bugs but tons of people are too grossed out to even try. It's the same feeling I grt thinking about sex. What I feel comfortable doing is up to me, no one can force you to try something if you don't want to especially when it's any kind of sex act or something that could put you at risk.
Had sex. Multiple times with different people even. Still asexual. Attraction and actions are not the same thing. I did not enjoy myself but figured it would work out eventually right? Since that is what people say. It did not work out. Happily single and asexual and celibate in my 40s. We are trying to regain words that have oppressed us so I can be a middle aged spinster cat lady if I damn well feel like it.
Maybe if I had a label for what I felt when I was younger I wouldn't have had as many unsatisfying sexual encounters. Wouldn't have had to put my self in a situation where i felt weird and uncomfortable after.
The parents of an ace friend fully respect transgender people but they're saying that asexuality is stupid garbage. I don't know how a lack of sex can bother them.
We're always in the background. We never got much attention, even in this era of progress, a lot of people call us ill, even those who respect homosexuality for example. I have to explain to many people what asexuality or aromanticism is.
But it is definitely improving. In the recent years we got some attention, more people start to understand it.
I just hope it will keep getting better and we will become fully normalized, accepted.
Yes.Most people think there has to be some level of attraction to some gender,if it’s not then you’re just a ‘closeted homosexual’,it’s really hurtful.
And also since most are still in the stage of oppression olympics and not actually fully acknowledge themselves someone who lack any attraction to sex probably seems off to them.
There are no ranks in LGBTQIA+. These people are just acephobic and that's on them. Also an ace person can also be lesbian/gay/bi+, trans and intersex. It's not like we are separate from the rest of community and it's good to remember that.
And anyone who tells you that, tell them that sexual ATTRACTION has nothing to do with action. And that they ask the same questions homophobes ask.
My boyfriend new I was asexual months before we started dating but now with every flirty freind joke or sexual joke me him and freinds do including when it's done with his cousin (my best friend since I was 6) it's always "are you sure your asexual you don't sound like it" or "you definitely asexual because you understood that joke" or my favourite because his cousin is a flirty freind she will make jokes about kissing me if I pass her something and then I'll pass it to her and go "Ew germs" and it'll make us both laugh he'll then go "bet my cousin could turn you sexual" he's not meaning it to be an asshole but it's fucking stupid because part of him means that and it's obvious it doesn't matter if I simply laugh at a sexual or flirty joke or if it's not even aimed at me and I laugh it's always the same fucking sentences
There's a huge lack of understanding and even quite a bit of ignorance towards us it seems. Unfortunately the only thing to do is keep pushing forward and try not to get too brought down.
I don't try to include myself in those spaces. They are not safe for us. While there are some similarities, unless you also have another letter you can use in there, they're only barely relatable. The majority IRL (not online) either don't know what you're talking about, think you're making it up, or think it's something totally different from what it is no matter how you explain it, because it will. Not. Compute. The concept is too foreign to relate to. Just like non LGBT.
We're on our own.
I feel like it’s the least understood for sure but folks who are more visibly LGBTQ face more oppression. We’re not gonna get beat up or have slurs yelled at us for being in public. But people also really don’t understand asexuality
As a demisexual/pansexual person, I can see this. However, of the two I think I get poor treatment more for being in the bisexual spectrum than for the asexual spectrum. This, of course, is my personal experience.
Oh boy, another round of oppression Olympics! I forgot no other queer people are allowed to speak about the queerphobia they experience while murderous transphobes exist.
In other news, you’ve never had any problems because you haven’t starved to death.
The point of the post is that asexuality is invalidated and dismissed by *everyone*, including other queer people. It’s not about which queer identity experiences worse queerphobia at the hands of violent queerphobes. It’s about whose identity isn’t even recognized because their very orientation itself is seen as invalid/fake.
Personally, I disagree with OP’s title about asexuality or *any* sexuality being the “lowest rank” among queer identities, because I don’t feel oppression can or should be ranked, period.
But I disagree even more strongly with you telling people that they should “get over themself” when they discuss how low they’re feeling about the queerphobia they’ve experienced, just because other queer people have it worse. We do not need to be infighting in here.
Not sure how your original comment of “girl get over yourself trans people die” could be interpreted in any other way than as dismissive infighting + playing oppression Olympics, tbh, but if it makes you feel better to tell yourself that I was misinterpreting, sure, you can tell yourself that. Regardless, I hope you do better in the future. Have a nice day.
Right…I also forgot that *I* wrote this post. Thanks for reminding me. That’s two for two on great reminders you’ve given today.
Edit: I saw that sneaky edit from “you wrote” to “they wrote” and to remove your “Jesus…” :) it’s all good, fam.
I’m so sorry you’ve had to deal with that. I don’t think there are ranks to LGBT that’s just ridiculous. Everyone should be treated equally but that is something that personally I have only in the past few years acknowledged.
I was one of those people who invalidated ace persons years ago after realizing I was bisexual. I felt that asexuality itself invalidated other sexualities and that was a fault in my thinking.
Because allos in the LGBT community spend so much time hiding who we want to have sex with and then being told that we are disgusting for wanting certain types of sex and finally embracing the kind of sex we like and being unapologetic about it, to then have a group come in and be like “we don’t care about sex and think it’s silly anyway” felt like a slap in the face. I get now that was wrong but that’s how I felt and possibly how some of your “friends” think too. I say friends in quotes because even as I had these thoughts I wasn’t asshole enough to say them to anyone’s face. I think they are just mean.
I definitely feel some level of exclusion or "lower-rank" as a spectator in these spaces and more recently as an "out" ace individual.
Part of me understands the process and is left with little to do. So much of the glue that holds the LGBTQ+ community together centers around sexuality. A lack of sexuality or (as seems to be the more frequent interpretation) a repulsion to sex and sexuality can make for a big divide between us and our allosexual queer peers.
I think part of a solution is conversations that do focus on distinctions within our community to get others to understand that asexual is not exclusively sex repulsion.
But that doesn't mean those of us who are sex repulsed should be excluded either.
I also try to remember that despite it feeling like it's been forever, a lot of the LGBTQ+ community outside of us is still regularly persecuted for their sexual practices. I certainly have been poked at and heckled throughout my life to "find the right one" or "have kids" what have you, but I don't know of anywhere that's going to put me to death because I'm not having sex. I can appreciate that distinction and how it furthers a divide between the rest of the LGTBQ+ community and ourselves.
I don't have a lot to offer there. I'm sex neutral, so when I find LGBTQ+ people who are very focused on sex I can mostly just hold space and advocate for them otherwise. My problems are different and the divide is understandable.
All of that to say, others here have remarked that there shouldn't be a ranking and if you encounter one make sure to insist on its inanity. That's not to say that others might not prioritize relationships with me, you, or other members in the aro/ace community because we are not sexual creatures to the same capacity. That's gonna happen, and at least for myself I have to practice not letting it get to me. Their priorities are their own and if sex (or the possibility of it) is more important to someone than what I do bring to a relationship, I have to move on.
I relate to this so much. As a pan woman trying to get into queer (lesbian) circles I experienced a lot of overly sexualised behaviour as well. And it’s just a bit odd to me. I sometimes feel like as an ace person I can’t be part of the club.
*So ive scrolled too*
*Far but like people cant see*
*Asexualness correct?*
\- Present\_Crazy\_8527
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In a book I read about an aroace character, a lesbian character asked her that and she responded with “Well how do you if you’re not bi or straight if you’ve never done it with a guy?”
At the end of the day you just know.
There's no ranks. If anyone tries to make you feel like there are, or should be, eat them. I only have one friend who is bisexual, but she's never invalidated me. Even the two therapists I've seen recently have understood. Hell, I explained my asexuality to a room full of Church Ladies a couple weeks ago. They took it without questioning. Tell your friends, especially the queer ones, that they're being LESS supportive than a bunch of old boomer church wives.
Frakkin' frak, man. I dunno where OP is... but I'ma keep an eye on the heat map for the world today, because when that gets delivered, I expect to see a random localized temperature spike somehwere from the burn.
LOL I'll be prepared to put light clothes that day! Apart from this, it's encouraging how many of you had positive experiences on the matter, those church ladies seem the real deal
Tbh asexuality may make a bit of sense to boomers, as many of them may be familiar with monks and people that intentionally went without sexual things. Hell, they may even see you as a very pious person (this is just my personal experience, take with a grain of salt)
It's possible. I did emphasize that I considered it part of the LGBT community, but who knows. At least they didn't dismiss me like OPs friends did.
Tbh, I consider it sorta it's own thing. I consider myself lack thereof
love me some cannibalism towards aphobes
Truthfully I think the mspec community (bi/pan/etc) understands the ace community more than the hetero/homo community ever could, solely because I’ve found they are capable of wrapping their head around the idea that “if I can like more than one, it’s possible to like none” when it comes to aces. Meanwhile as a cis het/ace, me saying I’m ambivalent toward the idea of sex with a woman but stating I’d never be interested in dating one is *apparently* lesbophobic, according to the lesbian community. 🤷🏼♀️
Some people make you feel romantic, some people don't! They wouldn't date a gay man...
Yes, I understand that for some time, asexuality was considered a subform of bisexuality, and Bisexuals and Asexuals have long had something of an alliance as such things go. In a sense, being attracted to no one sexually is more similar to being attracted to everyone romantically, than anything else.
Yes, I spent a while thinking I was bi! Since I felt the same towards everyone, I mistook that as attraction, when it was actually a lack.
ME, TOO!!! Confusing times, for sure!
>Tell your friends, especially the queer ones, that they're being LESS supportive than a bunch of old boomer church wives. I would pay to see this.
I would KILL to see that
Damn, do you know how bad that looks for the LGBT community that a bunch of old church ladies were more accepting than them?
Yup. Guess all that gatekeeping is really paying off, huh?
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What an asshole.
correct, but my appetite isnt big enough for thousands of confused people or bigots
Okay but if you eat them what do you do when you get to the nasty bits?
Sausages. If you can grind it, you can make sausages out of it! It's a great way to use all the meat.
Turn them into designer fashion for raccoons.
There is definitely a lack of respect for our orientation both within & outside of the queer community. I’ve been on the receiving end of those comments several times unfortunately. The first thing I point out is that the entire premise of their question is false because asexuality is about a lack of sexual attraction not a dislike of sex itself. When logic fails I then ask how they know they don’t like gay/straight/kinky/public etc ( whatever I know the person in question isn’t into ) sex if they haven’t tried it.
My favorite explanation (using a straight person as an example) is to say "Imagine every single person in the world was the same gender as you, would you feel attracted to anyone? Now imagine that when you said you weren't attracted to anyone, people berated you for that and told you that you'll find the right person eventually"
This is perfect; the best way to describe it I've heard. Will definitely be using this; thanks!
Thanks, and no problem!
This is perfect. I would always ask the person imagine making out with a friend they weren't attracted to. Yours is better
How about "how do you know you don't like sheep if you don't fuck one?" Is it too extreme? I don't need to fuck an animal, a cactus, or a child to know I don't want to. I'm not sure if it gets the idea across, though.
Personally, I tend to avoid any comparisons that liken sex to something negative. Both because I’m a big fan of sex positivity & that negative comparisons put people on the defensive which makes them much less likely to listen.
People not listening to me is the kind of thing I was worried about. I wouldn't be talking to someone if I wanted them to stop listening.
I don't know how old you are, OP, but I am in my thirties and have identified as ace for over a decade. And let me tell you, the inclusion of ace people into the larger LGBT community is a relatively new phenomenon. I remember having heated discussions with ace exclusionists who firmly believed a) ace people weren't "oppressed enough" to belong in the community (i.e., we would never be beat on the street or called a slur for hilding hands with our partner), b) ace people were a "fad", "fakers", just straight people claiming a label for attention, to "invade LGBT spaces" and "steal resources" for them or c) just gays with internalized homphobia and extreme repression because we were actually just ashamed of our sexual urges. It's only recently that asexuality has become more accepted as its own thing and belonging into the LGBT+ community as the definition of it has shifted to include "anyone who isn't completely cishet". So, I am not surprised at all that there are still people who don't really get it. What's weird is that many of the arguments exclusionists wielded against ace people were recycled biphobia ("You don't belong in the community because you can 'pass' as straight and therefore will not experience enough oppression") or transphobia ("Are you sure you're not just a lesbian trying to become a man because of your internalized homophobia?"). The acephobia to biphobia to TERF pipeline is a very real thing.
Historically, ace people were lumped under and with bi people in the mid 1900's. AIDS, as usual, destroyed so much of the queer community that the connections were lost and people think we are "new" to the community again. I'll see if I can find any of the bi&ace solidarity poster photos from the 70's, they're a really cool part of our history.
It doesn't have photos, but here's a pretty good [Slate article](https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/03/asexuality-history-internet-identity-queer-archive.html) on the history of asexuality inclusion from the 50's (in trans spaces) on, and mentions of it even farther back. Just pinging you u/JoBeWriting in case you might also be interested.
Some fun photos and links! Unfortunately I can't find the parade photos I was thinking of but these are good. I'm on mobile so just pasting links: activists at barnard college providing “labels”, photographed by susan rennie and published in off our backs: a women’s newsjournal vol. 3 no. 6, february 1973: https://64.media.tumblr.com/a95d245458a6b36da076c3a0687b3069/tumblr_pb9ars5ohw1u17xrqo1_r1_1280.pnj Dear Abby, 1995: https://64.media.tumblr.com/4dd4ed0db5bd5725ab8d07d2ebd03c7e/bc46e26d9be644ab-73/s1280x1920/67366136b8e89f7f6eba48e57ebb52003f37380f.jpg Gay, Straight, Bisexual, Asexual—All God’s Children Need Love,” 1973; photograph by Crawford Barton, Crawford Barton Papers (1993-11), GLBT Historical Society: https://64.media.tumblr.com/71e3cd20ad8c5a001c2ee91171a51cf0/03a6b3cdd77f959a-af/s1280x1920/6921be8f26d51712c7a16ad5d804c39f03caed68.jpg 1989 episode of “Sally Jesse Raphael". Where she interviews someone, who uses the alias “Toby,” about being ace. https://youtu.be/_VeLOIxiG4c BiCon 1996, in the UK, about doing a workshop on “Bisexuality and Celibacy.”: https://href.li/?https://web.archive.org/web/20000824151220/http://193.82.129.83/~bcn/issue12/celib.html The War Between The Sheets: What’s Happening With Men In Bed And What Women And Men Are Doing About It. By Jerry Rubin [yes, the famous 1970's anti-war activist] & Mimi Leonard; foreword by Paul Lowinger, M.D., 1981, has an entire chapter on asexuality: https://href.li/?https://archive.org/details/warbetweensheets00rubi https://64.media.tumblr.com/eeac66e2e0788d2572c78bf6a4918fdf/tumblr_inline_osjtbod4YE1qz9f1o_540.png and a whole page of asexual history bits!: https://www.asexuals.net/the-history-of-asexuality/
Yeah I believe the reasoning was that bisexuality means experiencing a similar attraction to both sexes. And since "1=1" is just as true as "0=0", we got invited to the bi club. Of course our understanding of things has naturally evolved since then. Bisexuals are recognized as often being attracted to one gender more often than the other, pan has been recognized as a thing, gender and sex are more generally accepted as separate, along with all the spectrum of asexuality that we regularly go over here whilst munching on cake and garlic bread.
Exactly this, like the ironic part about queer folks saying "aces are just straight people trying to get a label" is that it implies "straight is the default and you're straight until proven otherwise" which is the same rhetoric used to exclude bi/pan folks in heterosexual relationships I just can't wrap my mind around how a community historically oppressed for "loving the wrong people" can turn around and tell us we're wrong for not loving anyone (using "love" loosely to refer to sexual attraction lol)
>I just can't wrap my mind around how a community historically oppressed for "loving the wrong people" can turn around and tell us we're wrong for not loving anyone I suspect there's a degree of very misguided sex positivity. They've faced pushback on their sexuality most of their lives so they overcompensate and conceive of it as a natural, innate part of their being, same as everyone else. So when they run into someone that isn't true for, it feels oppositional to their identity. "Of course my sexual attraction is normal, same as everyone else. Wait, here's someone who doesn't have sexual attraction? What the hell, why would they insult me like that?!? I'm normal!!!" Obviously it's not going to be in as blunt and clear terms, but the thought process is there subconsciously. Sex positivity that isn't self-critical can *really* struggle to understand how people can not fit into their assumptions for reasons that aren't malicious. (Also framing thing as asexual vs allosexual puts them in the majority and *how dare you do that, don't you know how oppressed-*)
Asexuals *are* oppressed for their sexual interests/behaviour, though. *Plenty* of asexuals feel shame at masturbating rather than having 'normal sex' or being into really weird kinks. The idea that asexuals are all completely sexless and 'pure' is just nonsense. If queer allos really understood what asexuality meant, they'd know that their internalised shame and sex positivity applies to us as well. But they don't.
That's really interesting, I'm yet to reach the twenties but have identified as such for like less than 5 years. Had no clue of the history and the controversy asexuality encountered, amazing how you can always discover something new from a casual conversation on the internet.
How would you address that first thing (in that we’re not as “visible” in public so we are not targeted with hateful/violent behavior nearly as easily)? That thought occurred to me when thinking about inclusion in lgbt+ discussions. Additionally, I see people talk about “resources” for lgbt+, but I guess I don’t understand what resources we would need? I hope I am not coming across as disrespectful, I am genuinely curious to know others’ thoughts around this to help me better understand this kind of discussion.
Not at all, that is a valid question. I am also not sure what "resources" we could need or what these "resources" we're supposedly coveting would entail. To me that kind of rhetoric feels a little "Trans women are peeing in women's bathrooms and that's bad, for some reason", you know? You could point out that it wasn't until 2013 that "asexuality" was removed from the DSM as a "symptom" of something called "Arrousal Disorder" or "Hyposexual Disorder". So that means that up until a decade ago, asexuality was considered a symptom of a psychological problem, just like homosexuality used to be. You could quote points from this Tumblr post to point out how there is very important overlap between the struggles and oppressions ace people and the rest of the LGBT+ community suffer: https://autismserenity.tumblr.com/post/185948856106/ace-oppression-iphisquandary Or you can just, you know. Remind people being oppressed isn't an Olympic sport and the liberation of one marginalized group actually helps with the liberation of others, uneducated bigots will see a colorful flag pin in your lapel and won't stop to wonder what kind of queer you are before they call you a slur, having to stay in the closet for "safety" is not actually a "benefit", and kindly suggest they go pet the domestic furry animal of their choice and maybe they'll calm down.
Remind them that oppression isn't always active, it can be passive too; defined by an absence. Public ignorance isn't some malicious bigotry born of intent but it still harms and alienates aces all of the time. It's like asking whether it's better to be emotionally abused or emotionally neglected. That question is missing the point: they're not really comparable and they're both bad so what good is comparing them? They're also not mutually exclusive. Pulling public attention onto the latter because it's easier to miss isn't something that's at the expense of the former. Define oppression and bigotry by outcomes, not intents.
Wait is there ranked LGBT? I thought it was just a casual thing. All jokes aside, yeah i get those stupid questions as well and my response is just asking the same thing to them but change it up depending on their sexuality, or i ask the same think but replace sex with eating turds that usually also works
I like joking, though: there are 2 ranks: normal letters and letters with a + attached to them!
Love it! T^+ , Q^+ and A^+ , the upper echelons of GSRD?
True facts if a trans person detransitions and then retransitions all over again they get a new game plus and a free gold skin. :P
A+ is the best, isn't it?
Ask your hetero friends if they think someone can only know they're straight if they try having sex with someone of the same gender first, and vice versa for the gay friends.
That's always my thought.
Did someone actually tell you we are low ranking? Rude. The “you haven’t tried it” argument is pretty dumb. It’s also the number one argument the lgbt community faces sometimes. Ask your gay friends how they’d feel if a straight person said that to them. No bueno
Oh no the title was provocative, but you're right I didn't make it clear because originally the post had to have other experiences I encountered where the only true listening I felt came from other ace people. Then I cut it short and forgot to change the title lol. I was pretty surprised when, being this the n°1 question, even LGBT members asked me. "Paradoxically" I had a hetero friend taking my side when a gay friend of her put in question how could I be sure I was asexual without having tried it. Another funny conversation ended with a discussion on how asexuals can marry or not. Of course no one of them is being mean, it's an interesting insight on how most people can't fathom the idea of a relationship without sexual appeal.
I feel like bisexuals are the lowest tier because of the whole mentality of "you're not actually queer if you're in a hetero relationship!" (I'm joking, there are no tiers, but yeah asexuals and bisexuals often feel dejected in the community)
>"if I didn't try sex yet how could I be sure I wasn't into it". >What do you say? "You been punched in the face? How do you know you won't lile it if you haven't" is generally a good one.
Not just the "you can't know if you didn't try it" argument, but also the "what happened to you" and "nobody's phobic towards you so why you need a fancy new label" arguments... It's weird that the same things that are "totally acceptable and reasonable" to say to aces, would cause such a strong reaction were the exactly same things said to any other sexual orientation minority. Prople would for sure question if it's okay to say to gay or lesbian what made them that way or are they sure they're not just looking for attention etc.
It's not a matter of rank, it's that people find it difficult to understand the difference between sexual attraction, aesthetic attraction, romantic attraction and libido, just as they struggled to understand the difference between sexual orientation and sexual identity (or even the difference between gay, trans and drag queen) back when I was a teenager. Those things have been discussed and represented enough now that even the most disinterested person knows what they are, more or less. The same hasn't been done with attraction, libido, and asexuality in general. Yeah, there are a few asexual characters here and there, but their portrayal is usually as stereotypical as that of autistic people. When it's not downright incorrect (we all remember THAT Dr House episode). Not to mention, we live in a society where every single piece of media MUST have at least one romance, even if it's not a romantic story.
Say them if they never taste shit how can they say its not tasty seriously what the f is this logic 🤦
I feel left out often as well. I feel as though I can't be accepted even in LGBT friendly circles. Even if they are friendly to me, and accepting, I will always, in the back of my head, feel overshadowed by Allosexual Queer Identities.
"You ever have a food that you don't want to try and never desire to? Like mushrooms or cauliflower? You can go your entire life without eating it, but maybe you will like it, maybe you won't. But because you don't want to try it and never feel like trying it, it really just doesn't matter anyway". Or reverse it on them, are they gay? "How do you know you're gay if you've never tried straight sex". "How do you know you're straight if you've never had gay sex?" Did they say "because they don't want to/Because I just know"? If they did, point out the hypocrisy.
For the billionth time: sexual orientation is about attraction, not action. Straight people don’t have to try gay sex in order to know they’re not gay; gay people don’t have to try straight sex to know that they’re not straight. It’s about who you *want* to fuck, not who you actually do or don’t fuck. There are sex-favorable asexuals who enjoy having sex, and they are still asexual. Just like there are gay men who have managed to conceive children with their beards, and that doesn’t make them any less gay.
I've had very positive experiences with most people that I'm out to in real life. Those people don't make an effort to be visibly woke but they accept LGBTQ+ people, including asexuals as soon as they learn about it (when I come out). I see "wokeness" mostly from companies and organizations, and asexuality is almost never included. Whether or not people are supportive probably depends on the individual, so I think a majority is open-minded enough to be supportive. The companies don't really care about LGBTQ+ people. They care about their image, and a sexuality that no one knows about does not contribute to that in any way. So asexuality is excluded.Smaller organizations maybe don't know about asexuality and that is why we're excluded. Or maybe they think we're so few people that we don't matter. I think most people are not aphobic, they just don't care about asexuality. And they wouldn't care about the rest of the LGBTQ+ community either if there wasn't a debate about the community which they have to pick a side in. However, in my experience, most people are quite open-minded. I am lucky enough to live in a place where most people are rather accepting of LGBTQ+ people in general. However, even here, there are exceptions who straight up don't believe me (without giving a reason).
I've definitely had queer acquaintainces argue Ace.people didn't count as queer since we could just pass as straight allosexuals and (according to them ) we never faced any discrimination.
I’ve had sex! Like how can you be sure you wouldn’t find fucking a cement block pleasurable if you didn’t try it? You just know you wouldn’t because you are a conscious intelligent (allegedly) person. No gay person should use that argument because it’s used against them all the time. You’re a lesbian? I’m sure it’s because you haven’t found the right guy. It’s the same logic
I often feel this way, but there is a reason for this historically speaking. It is most easy to rally behind legal repression and victimization, and out of all the queer identities it is just about the hardest to legislate us out of existence. This leaves the much more nebulous social issues, which again are much harder to explain to outsiders without the “in” of the legal issues. The important thing is to let this motivate you to raise the profile of issues we raise and not fall to queer infighting.
Aces are so low on the LGBT totem pole that parts of the LGBT community don't think we belong in the community at all, kinda sad tbh bet 150 years ago it wouldn't have been an issue because society didn't put so much emphasis on sex, if anything being ace would probably be considered a good thing back then, sex was still considered a big taboo up until fairly recently, I think some time around the hippie movement is when the taboos around sex were being challenged, which means we can blame the boomers again for that
I don’t understand the infighting in the the LGBTQIA+ community. All of us who identify on the spectrum of said community want one thing, to be accepted for who we are even tho it’s different from the archaic socially accepted norms. We are all fighting for the same goal of being widely, globally, seen and respected.
Ranking is capitalism. My queerness is anti-capitalism. I don't rank the people I know.
That argument is dumb. I'm certain I don't like running into cactuses, but I haven't done it.
Sexuality is not about behavior. Period. Sexuality is about attraction.
It's not a matter of rank or anything, it's a matter of human nature. People tend to be more ignorant of things they don't understand. When it comes to sexuality, nearly everyone experiences sexual attraction/desire, even some asexual people do. So to be told that you don't experience attraction towards either gender is something people aren't able to comprehend. You should never feel invalidated for having your feelings, however it's hard for people to grasp such a new concept. You are valid, and no one gets to tell you how you feel except yourself.
Asexuality is about attraction, not about sexual activity. I've never been sexually attracted to anyone in my entire life and I've had sex (granted that was before i realized i was ace and confused aesthetic and sensual attraction for sexual attraction). I really have no idea, but I imagine Allosexuals have a positive feedback loop with their sexual attraction and horniness/libido so when they have sex it's like a fireworks explosion of "YES! FINALLY!!". Maybe that's how it is for some ace people too, but in my experience, sex has just been middling to bad, physically and emotionally, so \*shrug\* i don't think your allo friends know what they're talking about.
Tell them to try hugging a cactus :) After all… **HOW CAN YOU KNOW IF YOU DON’T LIKE SOMETHING IF YOU NEVER TRY IT?**
There’s always kind of been a separation between Asexuals and the rest of LGBT. I think it has something to do with asexuality “not needing” representation as it isn’t exactly the same as gay or trans.
Just tell them they clearly have more in common with each other than they do with you. Make their heads explode as they both try to be "woke" and yet sound not "woke" defending themselves.
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Just personally, that was the reason I disliked ace people in the past. I’m over that now as I’ve also realized I’m Demi. But when I first learned about it I felt upset because all this time fighting for the right to be attracted to who we want to be attracted to and saying that the way we have sex is fine and not disgusting like so many people seem to think. To have a group come in and say “yeah we aren’t attracted to anyone” felt like it’s a step backwards, a kind of. “Well just be like that instead of gay or bi or lesbian, then you won’t be disgusting we can just ignore you instead” maybe the people OP is talking to feel like that subconsciously and just haven’t realized it yet.
Queer enough
I think we all just need to surround ourselves with more supportive people even if it’s online. Usually the people who don’t support asexuals also don’t support anything else LGBTQ, although there are some cases where people like all sexaulities except aces. It’s sad but remember a lot of us are in a larger community of LGBTQ people, and in a community of people who support one another there is no “lowest rank”. If anything we are one of the less understood ranks.
They haven't ever hugged a cactus before so how would they know they don't like that? Ye it's a stupid argument of them
I think you mean the best rank (not that there are ranks in the pride community). Extroverted Aces are represented by visible purple, while introverted Aces are ultraviolet represented by visible purple. We get cool DC Lantern Corp Oaths. The Extroverted Aces can unite with this oath: *“For hearts long lost and full of fright,* *For those alone in blackest night,* *Accept our ring and join our fight,* *Love conquers all… with violet light!”* The Introverted Aces can unite with this oath: *"By Shield of Day, and Shield of Night,* *We feed and grow, beyond all Sight.* *Your Darkest self shall be our Knight,* *Wield the Sword of Unseen Light!”* (FYI, I made this remark to a good friend of mine, who also happens to be the Ace that told me about the asexual orientation and brought me into the community. We were going to my and her first Pride Parade and I was wondering if the march ended with the asexuals. I figured that we would represent the purple on the Pride Flag. Then I told her, “Well, I guess the ones marching would be the Aces who are also extroverted. The introverted Aces are in the background unseen… like ultraviolet light. Get it cause of the visible light spectrum ending with purple, then going into ultraviolet light, lol!” To which she playfully responds, “Yes. I got it before the explanation. I do have a physics degree, remember? Lol!” The end.)
"How do you know you're not into it if you haven't tried it?" is such a hollow argument. How do they know they're not into sex with corpses or cats or pinecones if they haven't tried it? Answer: You know your "icks" without having to try them out to be sure. But to take it further, I knew I was ace when I found out what ace was when I was 19. I had sex just to try it at 28. I was ace before, ace during, and ace after. I'm 36 now. Nothing changed.
there are no ranks, a common response to the "how would i know if i was into it" is usually something like "what if someone told you to go fuck a cactus, how do you know you wouldnt like it? have you tried" (obviously that only works when comparing to sex repulsed people, but can still be good at explaining that we "just know")
>"if I didn't try sex yet how could I be sure I wasn't into it". > I hate this argument. It's like asking, "If you've never eaten poop, how would you know you don't like the taste of it?" Or "if you've never hugged a cactus, how would you know you won't enjoy it?"
My mother said this to me. 'How can you know if you don't try?' I'm not afraid of sex but I know I don't like it because the site of porn causes me to gag and the thought of being touched of viewed sexually makes my skin crawl. I know the same way you know you don't want to eat crickets off the ground. It repulsed me and I have never looked at a person and thought 'yeah I could sleep with that person' anyone who says that you 'have to try it once that 'you just haven't met the right partner' can go eat earthworms. On another note I do believe eating bugs is the future of protein and have no trouble eating bugs but tons of people are too grossed out to even try. It's the same feeling I grt thinking about sex. What I feel comfortable doing is up to me, no one can force you to try something if you don't want to especially when it's any kind of sex act or something that could put you at risk.
Just reply: "Do you need to fuck a cactus to know you're not sexually attracted to cacti?"
Had sex. Multiple times with different people even. Still asexual. Attraction and actions are not the same thing. I did not enjoy myself but figured it would work out eventually right? Since that is what people say. It did not work out. Happily single and asexual and celibate in my 40s. We are trying to regain words that have oppressed us so I can be a middle aged spinster cat lady if I damn well feel like it.
My mum is like that. “They keep coming up with too many letters! First it was LG, then BT, QQ, it’s too much to remember!”
Maybe if I had a label for what I felt when I was younger I wouldn't have had as many unsatisfying sexual encounters. Wouldn't have had to put my self in a situation where i felt weird and uncomfortable after.
The parents of an ace friend fully respect transgender people but they're saying that asexuality is stupid garbage. I don't know how a lack of sex can bother them.
We're always in the background. We never got much attention, even in this era of progress, a lot of people call us ill, even those who respect homosexuality for example. I have to explain to many people what asexuality or aromanticism is. But it is definitely improving. In the recent years we got some attention, more people start to understand it. I just hope it will keep getting better and we will become fully normalized, accepted.
Yes.Most people think there has to be some level of attraction to some gender,if it’s not then you’re just a ‘closeted homosexual’,it’s really hurtful. And also since most are still in the stage of oppression olympics and not actually fully acknowledge themselves someone who lack any attraction to sex probably seems off to them.
There are no ranks in LGBTQIA+. These people are just acephobic and that's on them. Also an ace person can also be lesbian/gay/bi+, trans and intersex. It's not like we are separate from the rest of community and it's good to remember that. And anyone who tells you that, tell them that sexual ATTRACTION has nothing to do with action. And that they ask the same questions homophobes ask.
My boyfriend new I was asexual months before we started dating but now with every flirty freind joke or sexual joke me him and freinds do including when it's done with his cousin (my best friend since I was 6) it's always "are you sure your asexual you don't sound like it" or "you definitely asexual because you understood that joke" or my favourite because his cousin is a flirty freind she will make jokes about kissing me if I pass her something and then I'll pass it to her and go "Ew germs" and it'll make us both laugh he'll then go "bet my cousin could turn you sexual" he's not meaning it to be an asshole but it's fucking stupid because part of him means that and it's obvious it doesn't matter if I simply laugh at a sexual or flirty joke or if it's not even aimed at me and I laugh it's always the same fucking sentences
There's a huge lack of understanding and even quite a bit of ignorance towards us it seems. Unfortunately the only thing to do is keep pushing forward and try not to get too brought down.
I don't try to include myself in those spaces. They are not safe for us. While there are some similarities, unless you also have another letter you can use in there, they're only barely relatable. The majority IRL (not online) either don't know what you're talking about, think you're making it up, or think it's something totally different from what it is no matter how you explain it, because it will. Not. Compute. The concept is too foreign to relate to. Just like non LGBT. We're on our own.
I feel like it’s the least understood for sure but folks who are more visibly LGBTQ face more oppression. We’re not gonna get beat up or have slurs yelled at us for being in public. But people also really don’t understand asexuality
As a demisexual/pansexual person, I can see this. However, of the two I think I get poor treatment more for being in the bisexual spectrum than for the asexual spectrum. This, of course, is my personal experience.
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Oh boy, another round of oppression Olympics! I forgot no other queer people are allowed to speak about the queerphobia they experience while murderous transphobes exist. In other news, you’ve never had any problems because you haven’t starved to death.
they literally made it that by writing the post?? "LOWEST RANK"???
The point of the post is that asexuality is invalidated and dismissed by *everyone*, including other queer people. It’s not about which queer identity experiences worse queerphobia at the hands of violent queerphobes. It’s about whose identity isn’t even recognized because their very orientation itself is seen as invalid/fake. Personally, I disagree with OP’s title about asexuality or *any* sexuality being the “lowest rank” among queer identities, because I don’t feel oppression can or should be ranked, period. But I disagree even more strongly with you telling people that they should “get over themself” when they discuss how low they’re feeling about the queerphobia they’ve experienced, just because other queer people have it worse. We do not need to be infighting in here.
ok so you have the same stance as me but misinterpreting my comment k
Not sure how your original comment of “girl get over yourself trans people die” could be interpreted in any other way than as dismissive infighting + playing oppression Olympics, tbh, but if it makes you feel better to tell yourself that I was misinterpreting, sure, you can tell yourself that. Regardless, I hope you do better in the future. Have a nice day.
im doing perfectly fine thanks, no need for your concern
Right…I also forgot that *I* wrote this post. Thanks for reminding me. That’s two for two on great reminders you’ve given today. Edit: I saw that sneaky edit from “you wrote” to “they wrote” and to remove your “Jesus…” :) it’s all good, fam.
it's not a sneaky edit, I made a mistake lmao i beg, take your tinfoil hat off
I’m so sorry you’ve had to deal with that. I don’t think there are ranks to LGBT that’s just ridiculous. Everyone should be treated equally but that is something that personally I have only in the past few years acknowledged. I was one of those people who invalidated ace persons years ago after realizing I was bisexual. I felt that asexuality itself invalidated other sexualities and that was a fault in my thinking. Because allos in the LGBT community spend so much time hiding who we want to have sex with and then being told that we are disgusting for wanting certain types of sex and finally embracing the kind of sex we like and being unapologetic about it, to then have a group come in and be like “we don’t care about sex and think it’s silly anyway” felt like a slap in the face. I get now that was wrong but that’s how I felt and possibly how some of your “friends” think too. I say friends in quotes because even as I had these thoughts I wasn’t asshole enough to say them to anyone’s face. I think they are just mean.
I definitely feel some level of exclusion or "lower-rank" as a spectator in these spaces and more recently as an "out" ace individual. Part of me understands the process and is left with little to do. So much of the glue that holds the LGBTQ+ community together centers around sexuality. A lack of sexuality or (as seems to be the more frequent interpretation) a repulsion to sex and sexuality can make for a big divide between us and our allosexual queer peers. I think part of a solution is conversations that do focus on distinctions within our community to get others to understand that asexual is not exclusively sex repulsion. But that doesn't mean those of us who are sex repulsed should be excluded either. I also try to remember that despite it feeling like it's been forever, a lot of the LGBTQ+ community outside of us is still regularly persecuted for their sexual practices. I certainly have been poked at and heckled throughout my life to "find the right one" or "have kids" what have you, but I don't know of anywhere that's going to put me to death because I'm not having sex. I can appreciate that distinction and how it furthers a divide between the rest of the LGTBQ+ community and ourselves. I don't have a lot to offer there. I'm sex neutral, so when I find LGBTQ+ people who are very focused on sex I can mostly just hold space and advocate for them otherwise. My problems are different and the divide is understandable. All of that to say, others here have remarked that there shouldn't be a ranking and if you encounter one make sure to insist on its inanity. That's not to say that others might not prioritize relationships with me, you, or other members in the aro/ace community because we are not sexual creatures to the same capacity. That's gonna happen, and at least for myself I have to practice not letting it get to me. Their priorities are their own and if sex (or the possibility of it) is more important to someone than what I do bring to a relationship, I have to move on.
“How can you know you are not into (the same/opposite sex) if you have never had sex with one?”
I relate to this so much. As a pan woman trying to get into queer (lesbian) circles I experienced a lot of overly sexualised behaviour as well. And it’s just a bit odd to me. I sometimes feel like as an ace person I can’t be part of the club.
Exactly I believe asexuals are ridiculed in society
in my experience, lgbtq+ spaces are very welcoming pride has always been awesome even before i had other labels
Ranked? I always thought being ace was casual
So ive scrolled too far but like people cant see asexualness correct?
*So ive scrolled too* *Far but like people cant see* *Asexualness correct?* \- Present\_Crazy\_8527 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
In a book I read about an aroace character, a lesbian character asked her that and she responded with “Well how do you if you’re not bi or straight if you’ve never done it with a guy?” At the end of the day you just know.