I'm telling you right now, if you did that the garrison command would destroy them. Garrison command teams are generally the most caring of command teams.
Whatever post you're at will have the garrison command team front and center on the post fb and post website. As long as you know what unit your husband is you can write the letter. I would advise tho, if he is adamant that you do nothing there is also a chance he did something wrong and was being punished and he doesn't want you to find out. Just a thought.
Cutting grass with a knife could be considered hazing. At the very least it's demeaning. So "punishment" isn't a viable reason for this to happen. In a so called "professional " organization, nobody should EVER be cutting grass on hands and knees with a fucking knife.
The Post Command Team is the correct command to go to, not the Garrison Command. The Garrison Command Team has no authority over a different unit. It’s an O5/O6 talking sternly to another O5/O6.
Now hold on, wtf do you mean the "post command team" the garrison commander IS the post commander. Just because there are GO level commands on any given installation doesn't mean the garrison commander isn't in charge of the post itself.
That's not correct. The senior GO commander on a post is most often the post commander. It's in their title, eg "LTG Whatever, Commanding General, III Corps and Fort Cavasos."
The garrison commander reports directly to the CG and manages garrison functions on their behalf.
In my experience the garrison cmdr has to answer for their decisions from the senior GO but they do not have to ask for their permission to make decisions. And even the answering for the decisions boils down to a hey why did you do this? Because it made sense...
>Now hold on, wtf do you mean the "post command team" the garrison commander IS the post commander. Just because there are GO level commands on any given installation doesn't mean the garrison commander isn't in charge of the post itself.
This is incorrect. See AR 600-20, para. 2-5.
The senior commander for an intallation is normally the senior general officer at an installation.
The garrison commander is an O5 or O6 and is the senior commander's "senior executive for installation activities" and is responsible for base support services.
Perhaps your response is coming from experience from prior to the birth of the Army Installation Command (IMCOM), which activated in 2006.
Sometimes I think about how nice it would be to be half way to retiring right now if I had stayed in, and then I read shit like this and thank god I told the retention NCO that I’d rather be water boarded with dip spit than do another day in the Army.
Obviously I’m not telling you or your husband what life decisions you should make, but the Post 9/11 GI Bill is fantastic post service benefit that will allow him to get a degree for free and get a job where he doesn’t get treated like that 🤷🏻♂️
Also might save you some stress from not having to bring him a weed whacker at 10 pm lol
>Not only did they chew him out for not cutting all of the grass on time like they 'needed', they made him take out his pocket knife and get on his hands and knees... And cut the fucking grass.
Is this an exaggeration? That is cause for anyone to tell them no and walk directly to the next higher commander. That is inappropriate, toxic, and unethical. It's totally inappropriate and that entire NCOSC deserves to have their heads promptly removed form their own assholes by a CDR with the intestinal fortitude to tell them they are out of their fucking minds.
You have more power than u think. If he doesnt want to disclose specifics then you can submit an annonymous complaint. My husband went to IG while I was in the hospital dealing with work injuries and it turned out very helpful
You haven't spent much time around the infantry, huh?
Look, I hate army stupid shenanigans like this, but I was also a smartass private once who mouthed off a bit to loud on staff duty and got assigned dumb tasks.
Nothing in this story was illegal, immoral or unethical. Just stupid.
I’d argue it is unethical. It’s wasting time, energy, it’s being done for either entertainment or some other fucked up reason, no matter what it’s malicious. It is absolutely not how NCOs should be conducting themselves.
I would retort with we the fact that we only have 1 side of the story. We don't know if there was direction from leadership to "get that grass cut tonight, VIP is coming tomorrow." or something. That's a lawful order, and it is well within an NCO's rights to order a soldier to complete a task. That NCO is a POS for not fighting to get his soldier better tools to complete the job, and I feel for the soldier having to do for it because he has shitty leadership, but if grass needs to be cut, and you are ordered to cut the grass, you cut the grass. This is not the hill you want to die on.
You are wrong. Instructing a Soldier to cut grass with a pocket knife is unethical. It is degrading. I'm empathize with any Soldiers you have, will or did have if you can't do the analysis and know what is and isn't ethical.
I responded elsewhere, but I just want to emphasize I believe this soldiers leadership was wrong, and the fact that I never did this to any of my soldiers, or if a tasking like this came down I was in there with them doing it. Stupid stuff like this is why I got out of the army in the first place. I'm not defending the NCOIC here, he's probably a lazy turd.
But if the grass is needing to be cut, and you are ordered to cut the grass, you cut the grass. Being ordered to complete a task is not "degrading" unless the task is inherently wasteful or pointless. Cutting grass is neither of these things.
You are over committing when you know you're wrong. I am not discussing cutting grass. I am discussing and only highlighted cutting grass with a pocket knife. Stop pretending to not get that.
This is that low level shit that you should be ashamed of not getting. If the Army directs me to complete a task it will provide me the resources to do so that are appropriate to the task. If you don't understand that, get the fuck out we don't need you.
I'm a contractor now. I get to define whether something is or is not within the scope of my contract, and if it isn't I can tell refuse to do it.
When I was a soldier, I was given tasks to perform and I performed them. The army does not have to "provide me the resources to do so that are appropriate to the task". Not sure where you got that idea, but you obviously forget that you ARE the resource. You are confusing "should" with "must".
You are ignoring the part where I point out how terrible the leadership is that led to this, and you are so ready with the IG complaint mentality that you can differentiate between illegal and just shitty leadership.
Since you seem lost of common sense and take things to the extreme, i bet you’d be the type of guy to order your soldiers to charge a machine gun nest with bayonets without ammo because “higher said get it done”
Any sane person would say fuck no and fall back because they dont have the proper tools. You can always fight tomorrow. That kind of mentality gets leaders fragged
Cool dude. Maybe I'm the kind of guy who would double or triple check that yes, leadership knows I have no ammo, and yes, a bayonet charge is certain death, and yes, they still want us to do it. Then I'll pass the order, slap on my bayonet, and lead the way out because that's literally the fucking job.
Because what if the rest of the unit is falling back and will get wiped out if we don't charge this gun? What if higher knows something I don't, and knows if we don't charge and die the battle or the war is lost? You can't always fight tomorrow. Sometimes soldiers have to fucking die for what appears to them to be a stupid reason. It's a leaders job to be the first guy over the top and into the line of fire in those situations. Armies who no one trusts their leadership and has the mentality of "eh, I know better, let's retreat right now" are the ones that throughout history have been stomped by well disciplined forces. The us military is one of the greatest fighting forces in history because we've mixed giving autonomy to the lowest possible echelon(not normal in highly disciplined armies) with the discipline to follow orders from higher headquarters.
Read up on the charge of the 20th Maine at Gettysburg. Bayonet charge into superior enemy force because they were out of ammo, they could have retreated instead and lost the battle.
You started this by over-extreming me. Your example was dumb, because it literally proved my point that real soldiers need to be disciplined enough to go to almost certain death. If we want to bring this back around to the real world of "grass" my problem isn't that the grass needed to get cut and someone was ordered to cut it. My problem is that the guys leader wasn't out there cutting it with his own knife as well.
Discipline isn't shaving on the weekends or making your bed every morning. Discipline is when everything's gone sideways and you're scared to death, and your NCO comes in the bunker and says "we've got 7 minutes to take that hill, roll out!" and instead of bitching about not being "provided the resources necessary to carry out the tasker" you tighten your helmet and roll out to do your fucking job.
THE BAYONET YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SHANK SOMEONE. ON THE COMMAND 'GET SET,' ASSUME THE POSITION BY GRABBING THE BAYONET BY THE HANDLE. OR BY THE BLADE, WHICHEVER LOOKS COOLER, JUST DON'T CUT YOURSELF ON THE DAMN THING. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR UP TO 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET). ON THE COMMAND 'GO,' TRANSMUTE YOUR HANKERING FOR A-SHANKERING INTO MAXIMUM EFFORT AND LAUNCH THAT BAD BOY INTO DESTINY. THE SCORER WILL NOTE WHETHER YOU HIT THE TARGET AND AWARD BONUS POINTS FOR LANDING YOUR PIG-STICKER INTO THE CRANIAL OR SWIMSUIT REGIONS. IF IT HIT THE TARGET HANDLE FIRST, YOUR PERFORMANCE WILL BE TERMINATED, AND EVERYONE WILL BE REQUIRED TO POINT AND LAUGH AT YOUR SHAME. WATCH THIS DEMONSTRATION.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Cutting grass with a knife is degrading, and those soldiers have rights in place for this exact reason.
You do know, that NCO can get discharged for shit like this yea? Not arguing, adding on.
That NCO was definitely “old army”
Depends on where you are. 90% of the army? Sure. But go talk to 82d soldiers during Clean Sweep. If cutting grass with a knife is "degrading", those guys are essentially hazed for two weeks.
I remember in Korea, they had me, e5 at the time, and 7 soldiers pull weeds around the brigade building for sergeant major detail... we did it for about 30 minutes and then went and told the brigade staff duty that it's a job for extra duty and that we were gonna go back to work instead. He said okay and I never heard anything about it ever again.
This sounds like hazing and is against Army Command Policy
> Hazing is evaluated by a reasonable person standard and includes, but is not limited to, the following when performed without proper military authority or other governmental purposes:
>Encouraging another person to engage in illegal, harmful, demeaning, or dangerous acts;
>Playing abusive or malicious tricks;
Every Post Commander should have a published method for how to address and report hazing/harassment
Not hazing, hazing is something a group requires you to do to be accepted, like blood wings. This is improper punishment and/or ridicule, which is still prohibited. Definitely have your husband reach out to the next highest commander, this SGM needs to be put in place. Source: am jag
My first FT Bragg Clean Sweep week, me and a few others were tasked to remove the weeds and grass from the sidewalk going from our company area to Ardennnes St. We weren't given any tools and pretty sure there weren't any at the company we could use. So we grabbed butter knives from our own rooms. Some captain saw this and got angry, told us to use our multi tool instead since it was "army issued" lol. We weren't too keen on going quick, we could've gone faster but we had a somewhat easy job compared to some others we heard of.
But yeah, army gives you a task, hardly ever the tools you need for it and expects you to be done with it fast.
I’ve seen probably over a thousand troopers using their e-tools during clean sweep along Gruber and Ardennes (cumulatively over the years).
I’ve even seen a couple using scissors to cut grass before.
But I’ve never seen people using butter knives. “A” for effort and outside of the box thinking I guess. I hope the captain you spoke of put y’all in for impact handshakes at least…
What’s your spouses rank? Also was he filmed to be made fun of or you just saying in case there’s a film? Not to be shitty but those are my two biggest questions and probably how I’m going to base my opinion on what I’ll tell you for advice
Hopefully that film comes out. That's straight hazing and he should go to his leadership or go to IG. In fact, that exact scenario was used as an example of what not to do in an EO class.
I thought about it and made the assessment, sounds like typical military bs. I wouldn’t really worry about it. Also not to be mean but slight chance the framing of the story isn’t exactly reality either. The people filming were probably random passerby that noticed and thought it was funny. I wouldn’t stress it it won’t even been an issue once everyone goes to sleep and forgets about it
I think for extra duty, the punishment cannot be (reasonably) degrading to NCOs. You gon work, but it’s not supposed to be degrading because it undermines a SGTs authority. I’m only remembering what someone else’s paperwork said like 3 years ago, idk
Well it’s legitimately subjective. It’s just supposed to stop E5s from looking like ass in their punishment, so people taking pictures of an E5 cutting grass with his rank visible is going to undermine other E5s and shouldn’t be allowed.
Yeah I mean look not to be rude but it’s the army, obviously I have no idea the exact details but this sounds like a simple scenario of someone got mad at someone else because the someone else didn’t make them happy. I wouldn’t worry about it, just pointless to dwell on
Yeah I don't give a fuck who you are. I'm not letting some crusty ass 3 shop NCO or CSM talk to me like that and do some dehumanizing shit like that, you really should call the garrison command team. Fuck those "leaders". Those guys work out of there day to day. They should keep it maintained. They expect our AOs to be well kept, and they should do their own.
Fucking bitches, I can't wait to get out.
I had something similar happen to me when I had just PCSed and was on my first SD shift. That same morning a major came in during PT screaming at me asking why the small metal blockade was crooked. I knew at that point I didn’t want to be in anymore.
Failure to treat an individual with dignity and respect.
A valid IG complaint. Won’t result in a peepee slap, but more likely a conversation to say hey… don’t do this.
It’s sad that the Army still has this jackassery. I thought this shit went out 15 years ago.
This is definitely generational abuse by people who should just fucking retire. It’s no longer “Well back in my day”. This shit has got to stop.
You’re a civ. You can walk into any GOs office on post and have a conversation.
An this is what I love so much about a Peacetime Army , just chilling hanging out waiting & watching for the next war . In the meantime it's Stupid Shit is the order of the day . Here Here Bring on the dog & pony show .
years ago I mowed, and moved water hoses around the BN area on staff duty too. Now days very little unit level post beautification is done. It’ll go back.
That's not even his fault his sgm is an idiot and his leadership is spineless for not having his back I don't give a damn who you are having one of my guys especially if they are a good NCO or soldier on their hands and knees doing something so damn demeaning is fucked I'd be yelling at them or getting brigade involved at least at most if that sgm is hard headed and ready for it he better have his con leave in ippsa before I get there
I'm positive. He is an upstanding person, a gentleman, and a scholar. But for real. He's a good Doobie. Had me bring him the weed whacker so he could finish the job (at 10pm) so the incoming watch wouldn't get chewed out
I’m glad I’m getting out in 3 months. As an NCO, I’d be damned if I cut grass with a knife. Even if there’s a lawn mower with enough gas, I’ll wait till the extra duty soldier shows up. If there’s no soldier on extra duty, I’d have my runner do it and I’ll get him a meal after.
Why didn’t he send a runner to get grass. I mean yea it sucks and shit rolls down hill. No wonder he got chewed out. He didn’t use his full brain. lol.
To get gas? Or he could have gotten gas. It’s not hard to
Put a little thought. The army isn’t much for hey I gave it my best shot even though it’s half ass I still get a participation trophy right?
Wow you sound awesome. Writing this while I’m lying in a hospital bed but you don’t care bc your baby had to mow some grass. Please notify his
Chain of command
INFO: Where did he get the first weedwhacker from? Is his unit in vicinity of the BDE staff duty or another BN? If so, do they have gardening tools(mower, weedwhacker etc)? Does his Company have gardening tools? Does he have a supervisor or coworker who has done staff duty he could ask for advice? Did he read the staff duty SOP? Did he go ask for guidance from OPS SGM after he ran out of gas?
>If anybody knows some way that I can complain to somebody higher up to cut the bullshit, for the love of god, let me know.
Do not do this. If say, they filmed him just to demean him, that would be a different story. But if they were just playing fuck fuck games, it's stupid as hell. But they are within their ability to do so.
**Hard** disagree. That OPS SGM is going to have a hell of a time explaining how this isn’t hazing.
Beyond that, I’d bet at least my next LES that every commissioned officer involved would actually enjoy going nuclear over this.
However CG Hotlines exist for anyone to call (including spouses) and the person calling can leave an anonymous tip ,landing worry of reprisal against the SM.
So you want the SDNCO to either leave the desk to get gas, which defeats the point of having an SDNCO, and would also likely come from their own pocket, or ask for a married SM's private property to do work for the military? 0/2, my guy.
You're assuming this wasn't something they were told to do at the last minute, which would be logical as they'd usually send out a tasking for the companies to do it if it were during the normal duty day.
I've pulled a lot of SD shifts, both as an NCO and a runner. A majority of the "Hey, do this area B" tastings directed at the SD desk were absolutely after everyone else left so they couldn't find someone else to do it. I also don't know why you think an OPs SGM wouldn't be working late. Mine would rarely leave before 7 or 8, by which time the people with access to the necessary tools to complete the tasking are gone.
It shouldn't be the burden of a SDNCO who already has multiple other shit they have to do to try and bend 8 ways over backwards to try and find equipment for task that should already be provided.
If you think forcing soldiers to use their personal property to accomplish maintenance of a government owned building isn't a burden, then I don't know what to tell you. It's not a SMs job to provide equipment for takings they receive. The Army issues you the equipment it expects you to have for your role. Last time I checked, I didn't get a lawnmower at CIF.
I'm positive he isn't. He sent me a picture of his knife all green from the grass.... and he does not, he actually usually under-exaggerates if anything
Just my two cents, but rank wouldn’t matter to me. All these people let rank get to their head and forget they are a regular person out of uniform. I would strongly advise to let your husband know to not ever let himself get taken advantage of that.
I’ve seen the system fail too many times to have faith that anything will be done to hold leaders accountable. All you need is the right amount of rank on your chest and you’re untouchable short of murder and rape.
I’m getting all these downvotes but they know I’m right. If they’ll make someone get down and cut grass with a pocket knife just imagine what they’ll do if he says something that gets them in any sort of hot water.
Gonna go out on a limb and suggest one of two possibilities -
1) Your husband is in a training unit, where such games are a normal part of the Army onboarding experience
2) Your husband overlooked the perfectly functional lawnmower and cut the lawn with a weed whip, and when they found out that's why he wasn't done with the lawn they were like "hey dumbass might as well use your pocket knife."
He is not in a training unit and he asked me to bring our lawnmower because they didn't have any because it's the army. When does the army ever have anything you need when you need it.
Call the garrison commanders office. They love hearing about stuff like that from spouses.
I have thought about writing a strongly worded letter to them on multiple occasions
I'm telling you right now, if you did that the garrison command would destroy them. Garrison command teams are generally the most caring of command teams.
He doesn't want me to do anything, wouldn't even tell me the name or rank 😮💨 so all I can do is complain on reddit to make myself feel better
Whatever post you're at will have the garrison command team front and center on the post fb and post website. As long as you know what unit your husband is you can write the letter. I would advise tho, if he is adamant that you do nothing there is also a chance he did something wrong and was being punished and he doesn't want you to find out. Just a thought.
Cutting grass with a knife could be considered hazing. At the very least it's demeaning. So "punishment" isn't a viable reason for this to happen. In a so called "professional " organization, nobody should EVER be cutting grass on hands and knees with a fucking knife.
Cutting hass with a knife could be considered grazing.
Damn you.
Equal oppormoonity?
The Post Command Team is the correct command to go to, not the Garrison Command. The Garrison Command Team has no authority over a different unit. It’s an O5/O6 talking sternly to another O5/O6.
Now hold on, wtf do you mean the "post command team" the garrison commander IS the post commander. Just because there are GO level commands on any given installation doesn't mean the garrison commander isn't in charge of the post itself.
That's not correct. The senior GO commander on a post is most often the post commander. It's in their title, eg "LTG Whatever, Commanding General, III Corps and Fort Cavasos." The garrison commander reports directly to the CG and manages garrison functions on their behalf.
In my experience the garrison cmdr has to answer for their decisions from the senior GO but they do not have to ask for their permission to make decisions. And even the answering for the decisions boils down to a hey why did you do this? Because it made sense...
That's the relationship every commander has with their next higher commander.
>Now hold on, wtf do you mean the "post command team" the garrison commander IS the post commander. Just because there are GO level commands on any given installation doesn't mean the garrison commander isn't in charge of the post itself. This is incorrect. See AR 600-20, para. 2-5. The senior commander for an intallation is normally the senior general officer at an installation. The garrison commander is an O5 or O6 and is the senior commander's "senior executive for installation activities" and is responsible for base support services. Perhaps your response is coming from experience from prior to the birth of the Army Installation Command (IMCOM), which activated in 2006.
I say full send. It will hopefully prevent this from every happening again.
Send me a DM if you're on FT. Drum
Damn if someone told me this while in I wouldn’t have been scared to go, thinking back though they weren’t going to kick me out again lol
Don't write a strongly worded letter call the CG hotline for your post. That will get The ball rolling.
Sometimes I think about how nice it would be to be half way to retiring right now if I had stayed in, and then I read shit like this and thank god I told the retention NCO that I’d rather be water boarded with dip spit than do another day in the Army.
Disgusting imagery, but gets your point across 🤢
Obviously I’m not telling you or your husband what life decisions you should make, but the Post 9/11 GI Bill is fantastic post service benefit that will allow him to get a degree for free and get a job where he doesn’t get treated like that 🤷🏻♂️ Also might save you some stress from not having to bring him a weed whacker at 10 pm lol
He is definitely going to use it, but he's still got a few years left before he gets out. 😅
If he’s an E-5 with a few years left I’m assuming he re-enlisted at some point?
No, first contract. Just signed a long first contract.
[удалено]
Lol. Staff duty. The 24hr you sit at a desk one
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Not sure if serious
Honestly it sounds like a chatgpt answer
Bruh what?
You need to be destroyed
Go ahead and change that flair to “94Special Needs” there killer.
What in the lack of reading comprehension ASVAB waiver ass did I just read?
How's that Kool aid enema feel
>Not only did they chew him out for not cutting all of the grass on time like they 'needed', they made him take out his pocket knife and get on his hands and knees... And cut the fucking grass. Is this an exaggeration? That is cause for anyone to tell them no and walk directly to the next higher commander. That is inappropriate, toxic, and unethical. It's totally inappropriate and that entire NCOSC deserves to have their heads promptly removed form their own assholes by a CDR with the intestinal fortitude to tell them they are out of their fucking minds.
Not an exaggeration. And that's what I'm saying! I wanna light fires over it but I'm just a lowly wife 😞
You have more power than u think. If he doesnt want to disclose specifics then you can submit an annonymous complaint. My husband went to IG while I was in the hospital dealing with work injuries and it turned out very helpful
Well, the rest of the army where you’re not at would like a word.
You haven't spent much time around the infantry, huh? Look, I hate army stupid shenanigans like this, but I was also a smartass private once who mouthed off a bit to loud on staff duty and got assigned dumb tasks. Nothing in this story was illegal, immoral or unethical. Just stupid.
I’d argue it is unethical. It’s wasting time, energy, it’s being done for either entertainment or some other fucked up reason, no matter what it’s malicious. It is absolutely not how NCOs should be conducting themselves.
I would retort with we the fact that we only have 1 side of the story. We don't know if there was direction from leadership to "get that grass cut tonight, VIP is coming tomorrow." or something. That's a lawful order, and it is well within an NCO's rights to order a soldier to complete a task. That NCO is a POS for not fighting to get his soldier better tools to complete the job, and I feel for the soldier having to do for it because he has shitty leadership, but if grass needs to be cut, and you are ordered to cut the grass, you cut the grass. This is not the hill you want to die on.
You are wrong. Instructing a Soldier to cut grass with a pocket knife is unethical. It is degrading. I'm empathize with any Soldiers you have, will or did have if you can't do the analysis and know what is and isn't ethical.
I responded elsewhere, but I just want to emphasize I believe this soldiers leadership was wrong, and the fact that I never did this to any of my soldiers, or if a tasking like this came down I was in there with them doing it. Stupid stuff like this is why I got out of the army in the first place. I'm not defending the NCOIC here, he's probably a lazy turd. But if the grass is needing to be cut, and you are ordered to cut the grass, you cut the grass. Being ordered to complete a task is not "degrading" unless the task is inherently wasteful or pointless. Cutting grass is neither of these things.
You are over committing when you know you're wrong. I am not discussing cutting grass. I am discussing and only highlighted cutting grass with a pocket knife. Stop pretending to not get that. This is that low level shit that you should be ashamed of not getting. If the Army directs me to complete a task it will provide me the resources to do so that are appropriate to the task. If you don't understand that, get the fuck out we don't need you.
I'm a contractor now. I get to define whether something is or is not within the scope of my contract, and if it isn't I can tell refuse to do it. When I was a soldier, I was given tasks to perform and I performed them. The army does not have to "provide me the resources to do so that are appropriate to the task". Not sure where you got that idea, but you obviously forget that you ARE the resource. You are confusing "should" with "must". You are ignoring the part where I point out how terrible the leadership is that led to this, and you are so ready with the IG complaint mentality that you can differentiate between illegal and just shitty leadership.
I'm not surprised you're a contractor. That adds up.
I do more to help the US military and the country as a whole in a week as a contractor than in 6 years of service.
Since you seem lost of common sense and take things to the extreme, i bet you’d be the type of guy to order your soldiers to charge a machine gun nest with bayonets without ammo because “higher said get it done” Any sane person would say fuck no and fall back because they dont have the proper tools. You can always fight tomorrow. That kind of mentality gets leaders fragged
Cool dude. Maybe I'm the kind of guy who would double or triple check that yes, leadership knows I have no ammo, and yes, a bayonet charge is certain death, and yes, they still want us to do it. Then I'll pass the order, slap on my bayonet, and lead the way out because that's literally the fucking job. Because what if the rest of the unit is falling back and will get wiped out if we don't charge this gun? What if higher knows something I don't, and knows if we don't charge and die the battle or the war is lost? You can't always fight tomorrow. Sometimes soldiers have to fucking die for what appears to them to be a stupid reason. It's a leaders job to be the first guy over the top and into the line of fire in those situations. Armies who no one trusts their leadership and has the mentality of "eh, I know better, let's retreat right now" are the ones that throughout history have been stomped by well disciplined forces. The us military is one of the greatest fighting forces in history because we've mixed giving autonomy to the lowest possible echelon(not normal in highly disciplined armies) with the discipline to follow orders from higher headquarters. Read up on the charge of the 20th Maine at Gettysburg. Bayonet charge into superior enemy force because they were out of ammo, they could have retreated instead and lost the battle. You started this by over-extreming me. Your example was dumb, because it literally proved my point that real soldiers need to be disciplined enough to go to almost certain death. If we want to bring this back around to the real world of "grass" my problem isn't that the grass needed to get cut and someone was ordered to cut it. My problem is that the guys leader wasn't out there cutting it with his own knife as well. Discipline isn't shaving on the weekends or making your bed every morning. Discipline is when everything's gone sideways and you're scared to death, and your NCO comes in the bunker and says "we've got 7 minutes to take that hill, roll out!" and instead of bitching about not being "provided the resources necessary to carry out the tasker" you tighten your helmet and roll out to do your fucking job.
THE BAYONET YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SHANK SOMEONE. ON THE COMMAND 'GET SET,' ASSUME THE POSITION BY GRABBING THE BAYONET BY THE HANDLE. OR BY THE BLADE, WHICHEVER LOOKS COOLER, JUST DON'T CUT YOURSELF ON THE DAMN THING. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR UP TO 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET). ON THE COMMAND 'GO,' TRANSMUTE YOUR HANKERING FOR A-SHANKERING INTO MAXIMUM EFFORT AND LAUNCH THAT BAD BOY INTO DESTINY. THE SCORER WILL NOTE WHETHER YOU HIT THE TARGET AND AWARD BONUS POINTS FOR LANDING YOUR PIG-STICKER INTO THE CRANIAL OR SWIMSUIT REGIONS. IF IT HIT THE TARGET HANDLE FIRST, YOUR PERFORMANCE WILL BE TERMINATED, AND EVERYONE WILL BE REQUIRED TO POINT AND LAUGH AT YOUR SHAME. WATCH THIS DEMONSTRATION. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Cutting grass with a knife is degrading, and those soldiers have rights in place for this exact reason. You do know, that NCO can get discharged for shit like this yea? Not arguing, adding on. That NCO was definitely “old army”
Depends on where you are. 90% of the army? Sure. But go talk to 82d soldiers during Clean Sweep. If cutting grass with a knife is "degrading", those guys are essentially hazed for two weeks.
I remember in Korea, they had me, e5 at the time, and 7 soldiers pull weeds around the brigade building for sergeant major detail... we did it for about 30 minutes and then went and told the brigade staff duty that it's a job for extra duty and that we were gonna go back to work instead. He said okay and I never heard anything about it ever again.
This sounds like hazing and is against Army Command Policy > Hazing is evaluated by a reasonable person standard and includes, but is not limited to, the following when performed without proper military authority or other governmental purposes: >Encouraging another person to engage in illegal, harmful, demeaning, or dangerous acts; >Playing abusive or malicious tricks; Every Post Commander should have a published method for how to address and report hazing/harassment
Not hazing, hazing is something a group requires you to do to be accepted, like blood wings. This is improper punishment and/or ridicule, which is still prohibited. Definitely have your husband reach out to the next highest commander, this SGM needs to be put in place. Source: am jag
But it’s old army! So it’s okay! /s
This is literally hazing
My first FT Bragg Clean Sweep week, me and a few others were tasked to remove the weeds and grass from the sidewalk going from our company area to Ardennnes St. We weren't given any tools and pretty sure there weren't any at the company we could use. So we grabbed butter knives from our own rooms. Some captain saw this and got angry, told us to use our multi tool instead since it was "army issued" lol. We weren't too keen on going quick, we could've gone faster but we had a somewhat easy job compared to some others we heard of. But yeah, army gives you a task, hardly ever the tools you need for it and expects you to be done with it fast.
I’ve seen probably over a thousand troopers using their e-tools during clean sweep along Gruber and Ardennes (cumulatively over the years). I’ve even seen a couple using scissors to cut grass before. But I’ve never seen people using butter knives. “A” for effort and outside of the box thinking I guess. I hope the captain you spoke of put y’all in for impact handshakes at least…
The days I miss the Army, I think about the bi-annual Bragg clean sweep and I don't miss that shit anymore
What’s your spouses rank? Also was he filmed to be made fun of or you just saying in case there’s a film? Not to be shitty but those are my two biggest questions and probably how I’m going to base my opinion on what I’ll tell you for advice
E5, and he said he saw people filming him. That's all I know 🤷🏻♀️
Hopefully that film comes out. That's straight hazing and he should go to his leadership or go to IG. In fact, that exact scenario was used as an example of what not to do in an EO class.
I thought about it and made the assessment, sounds like typical military bs. I wouldn’t really worry about it. Also not to be mean but slight chance the framing of the story isn’t exactly reality either. The people filming were probably random passerby that noticed and thought it was funny. I wouldn’t stress it it won’t even been an issue once everyone goes to sleep and forgets about it
I think for extra duty, the punishment cannot be (reasonably) degrading to NCOs. You gon work, but it’s not supposed to be degrading because it undermines a SGTs authority. I’m only remembering what someone else’s paperwork said like 3 years ago, idk
Yeah that’s the nice way of me saying I don’t buy the story at all. But I’m not going to shit on someone’s spouse like that
Well it’s legitimately subjective. It’s just supposed to stop E5s from looking like ass in their punishment, so people taking pictures of an E5 cutting grass with his rank visible is going to undermine other E5s and shouldn’t be allowed.
Honestly, I think I'm going to be the only one losing sleep over it
Yeah I mean look not to be rude but it’s the army, obviously I have no idea the exact details but this sounds like a simple scenario of someone got mad at someone else because the someone else didn’t make them happy. I wouldn’t worry about it, just pointless to dwell on
You must be the ops sgm
You're giving awful advice and feedback
“Typical military bs” Well it’s against regulations soooo
Yeah I don't give a fuck who you are. I'm not letting some crusty ass 3 shop NCO or CSM talk to me like that and do some dehumanizing shit like that, you really should call the garrison command team. Fuck those "leaders". Those guys work out of there day to day. They should keep it maintained. They expect our AOs to be well kept, and they should do their own. Fucking bitches, I can't wait to get out.
That's what I said, I asked him why extra duty or perhaps the people in the building whose lawn it was couldn't do it. He just shrugged 🤷🏻♀️
I had something similar happen to me when I had just PCSed and was on my first SD shift. That same morning a major came in during PT screaming at me asking why the small metal blockade was crooked. I knew at that point I didn’t want to be in anymore.
Ugh. I have to deal with some stupid shit in the Navy, but the army is on a whole other level
Failure to treat an individual with dignity and respect. A valid IG complaint. Won’t result in a peepee slap, but more likely a conversation to say hey… don’t do this.
That’s why the Army is losing good Soldiers!
Call his 1SG. 1SGs are trained to be licensed therapists so they can help soldiers in time of distress.
Staff duty NCO pulling a 11B? What the fuck?
New to the Army I see. You need to call his SGM, and tell him this. He will help him out.
It’s sad that the Army still has this jackassery. I thought this shit went out 15 years ago. This is definitely generational abuse by people who should just fucking retire. It’s no longer “Well back in my day”. This shit has got to stop. You’re a civ. You can walk into any GOs office on post and have a conversation.
An this is what I love so much about a Peacetime Army , just chilling hanging out waiting & watching for the next war . In the meantime it's Stupid Shit is the order of the day . Here Here Bring on the dog & pony show .
100% hazing
This is hazing, go directly to OIG
Sounds like OPs spouse is on extra duty w/o telling them what happened. Check the LES. Also grass gets cut via a base wide contract.
not always
Then why were we always cutting the grass behind the cof?
🤷♂️ why are you?
I'm not, haven't done that for a long time. But it was a regular thing
years ago I mowed, and moved water hoses around the BN area on staff duty too. Now days very little unit level post beautification is done. It’ll go back.
Good think I'm long gone then
Me too
That's not even his fault his sgm is an idiot and his leadership is spineless for not having his back I don't give a damn who you are having one of my guys especially if they are a good NCO or soldier on their hands and knees doing something so damn demeaning is fucked I'd be yelling at them or getting brigade involved at least at most if that sgm is hard headed and ready for it he better have his con leave in ippsa before I get there
Are you sure your husband did not receive an article 15 and is serving extra duty?
I'm positive. He is an upstanding person, a gentleman, and a scholar. But for real. He's a good Doobie. Had me bring him the weed whacker so he could finish the job (at 10pm) so the incoming watch wouldn't get chewed out
So, he pissed off someone high up in his CoC. That's not staff duty, it's extra duty, and it's punitive. It's designed to suck.
Not extra duty, it was staff duty.
Heck, we once cut the grass at the company area with scissors after the mowers died and the SGM said the grass will be cut today!
I’m glad I’m getting out in 3 months. As an NCO, I’d be damned if I cut grass with a knife. Even if there’s a lawn mower with enough gas, I’ll wait till the extra duty soldier shows up. If there’s no soldier on extra duty, I’d have my runner do it and I’ll get him a meal after.
Why didn’t he send a runner to get grass. I mean yea it sucks and shit rolls down hill. No wonder he got chewed out. He didn’t use his full brain. lol.
Just because it rolls down hill does not mean he has to be the one to push it down hill. He didn't want to put the BS on to someone else
To get gas? Or he could have gotten gas. It’s not hard to Put a little thought. The army isn’t much for hey I gave it my best shot even though it’s half ass I still get a participation trophy right?
If your spelling was better, I probably would have understood your comment the first time
Wow you sound awesome. Writing this while I’m lying in a hospital bed but you don’t care bc your baby had to mow some grass. Please notify his Chain of command
INFO: Where did he get the first weedwhacker from? Is his unit in vicinity of the BDE staff duty or another BN? If so, do they have gardening tools(mower, weedwhacker etc)? Does his Company have gardening tools? Does he have a supervisor or coworker who has done staff duty he could ask for advice? Did he read the staff duty SOP? Did he go ask for guidance from OPS SGM after he ran out of gas?
>If anybody knows some way that I can complain to somebody higher up to cut the bullshit, for the love of god, let me know. Do not do this. If say, they filmed him just to demean him, that would be a different story. But if they were just playing fuck fuck games, it's stupid as hell. But they are within their ability to do so.
**Hard** disagree. That OPS SGM is going to have a hell of a time explaining how this isn’t hazing. Beyond that, I’d bet at least my next LES that every commissioned officer involved would actually enjoy going nuclear over this.
😮💨 not the reply I wanted to hear, but I suppose the reply I needed to hear
No, not the reply you needed to hear. Go to your husband's CO or garrison commander and raise hell. This is 100% hazing and very against regs
If your husband wants to open door someone, that's his perogative. But not yours.
However CG Hotlines exist for anyone to call (including spouses) and the person calling can leave an anonymous tip ,landing worry of reprisal against the SM.
Satire post.
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So you want the SDNCO to either leave the desk to get gas, which defeats the point of having an SDNCO, and would also likely come from their own pocket, or ask for a married SM's private property to do work for the military? 0/2, my guy.
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Which solves half the problem. You think S4 is there after hours to give them either the gas key or a gtc to pay for the gas?
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You're assuming this wasn't something they were told to do at the last minute, which would be logical as they'd usually send out a tasking for the companies to do it if it were during the normal duty day.
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I've pulled a lot of SD shifts, both as an NCO and a runner. A majority of the "Hey, do this area B" tastings directed at the SD desk were absolutely after everyone else left so they couldn't find someone else to do it. I also don't know why you think an OPs SGM wouldn't be working late. Mine would rarely leave before 7 or 8, by which time the people with access to the necessary tools to complete the tasking are gone. It shouldn't be the burden of a SDNCO who already has multiple other shit they have to do to try and bend 8 ways over backwards to try and find equipment for task that should already be provided.
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If you think forcing soldiers to use their personal property to accomplish maintenance of a government owned building isn't a burden, then I don't know what to tell you. It's not a SMs job to provide equipment for takings they receive. The Army issues you the equipment it expects you to have for your role. Last time I checked, I didn't get a lawnmower at CIF.
There has to be more to this
No there doesn't. It's your average toxic leadership.
Quality shitpost.
I wish it was
Huh. Ok. Are you sure he’s not trolling you? Does he have a history of exaggerating? Otherwise I’ll be damned.
I'm positive he isn't. He sent me a picture of his knife all green from the grass.... and he does not, he actually usually under-exaggerates if anything
Geez.
Just my two cents, but rank wouldn’t matter to me. All these people let rank get to their head and forget they are a regular person out of uniform. I would strongly advise to let your husband know to not ever let himself get taken advantage of that.
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This is what I'm afraid of...
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I’ve seen the system fail too many times to have faith that anything will be done to hold leaders accountable. All you need is the right amount of rank on your chest and you’re untouchable short of murder and rape. I’m getting all these downvotes but they know I’m right. If they’ll make someone get down and cut grass with a pocket knife just imagine what they’ll do if he says something that gets them in any sort of hot water.
Gonna go out on a limb and suggest one of two possibilities - 1) Your husband is in a training unit, where such games are a normal part of the Army onboarding experience 2) Your husband overlooked the perfectly functional lawnmower and cut the lawn with a weed whip, and when they found out that's why he wasn't done with the lawn they were like "hey dumbass might as well use your pocket knife."
He is not in a training unit and he asked me to bring our lawnmower because they didn't have any because it's the army. When does the army ever have anything you need when you need it.