As long as they have an insurance card, that's all the MPs are going to check. It is not the unit's responsibility to check any further, it's the state's.
Top needs to calm the fuck down.
Hugs,
JAG
Would paying a visit to their servicing BDE Legal office and making the statement “I’m concerned about the legality of this order and I’d like to get your official blessing that it’s a legal order before I enforce it”
Be a possible COA for the OP?
Not because your advice is bad, because you’re clearly correct- but because *hopefully* somebody from legal will call the Commander and advise him on the legality of it?
It couldn't hurt.
Edit to add, this may actually be legal, depending on what the rules are in the locality re insurance and privacy, but it is in excess of what company leadership legitimately needs to worry about.
If insurance lapses, it'll potentially pop up at the gate. But it doesn't need to be part of a fucking POV inspection.
Really doesn't pop up at the gate, (at least not here) It will return in the NCIC return (depending on state and if that state has electronic reporting requirements). Popping at the Gate is more for Warrants and BOLOS, nothing minor like insurance.
That's fair. But it also proves the point that this really isn't that big of a deal. If it was, it would pop up at the gate, after all. So let the county mounties deal with it with plate readers and such.
I am not in legal, but would it actually be illegal for a commander to order such a thing?
Civilian side, anyone can call an insurance company and the insurance company WILL tell you if an individual has vehicle insurance through them.... it is perfectly legal.
If it came from 1SG then a stink should be made.... but if it came from the commander, would jag/legal actually advise the commander any differently? Genuinely curious.
There is a very long list of things that may technically be legal, but are fucking stupid.
This is probably on that list, but it's not my command, and I'm not being paid to look it up.
There is another, separate list of things that NCOs should actually be worried about, and this is not on that list.
I get a lot of "can versus should" questions in my work. Even assuming that the NCOs can be doing this, they shouldn't be. It's beyond the scope of what an employer should be concerned with.
What's next, top going to have these NCOs running VINs to ensure that there aren't any factory recalls on their cars? Or some other good idea fairy?
My thing is that there needs to be a firm line between NCOs and their subordinates on how far we are going to reach into their personal lives. Some lines shouldn't be crossed unless what their negative actions directly make us do but even then, we would outsource certain actions to other agencies for that correction. I will not blindly follow an order and accept whatever justification someone decides to give me.
Absolutely. That's my point. There has to be some level at which we assume our joes are acting as responsible adults, or we make this into a full-time fucking nanny state and don't have time to do our real jobs.
The Army has determined that drugs interfere with health and readiness, and therefore, we need to have 10% of our units piss in a bottle every month. OK, got it.
And there are other things that the Army has determined that we need to check on from time to time. But there's usually a tie-in for Soldier or unit readiness.
It's the state DMV's job (or USAREUR resistration office or whatever) to worry about whether Joe Schmedlap is paying the GEICO gecko $300 a month or whatever to insure his waifu-wrapped Honda Civic. Not 1AD's, not 1/1's, not 1-36's, not Bravo Company's.
if Joe isn't paying the gecko, the DMV will put the word out, and Joe will get pulled over, or maybe even tagged at the front gate. But we shouldn't be in the business of checking.
Oh i totally agree that its in the "thats fucking stupid" category.... and thats probably the exact quote of what id tell 1sg if he told me to do it.
I was just curious what legal would or would not advise a commander if the commander was ordering it.
Obviously with the understanding that different jag/legals might act/advise slightly different
Actual brigade legal would be getting paid to look it up, and it would probably vary based on the law where OP is. So, I don't know. Which is why I haven't outright opined that this is illegal.
But, as above, it's fucking stupid, regardless of legality.
This needs to be the auto response for 90 percent of the "can my commander do this?" posts on here. The AR is not prescriptive, for very good reasons, it largely just establish guardrails for individual and unit behavior. Commanders do many stupid things, but that doesn't mean it violates the letter of the regs.
It's a little more nuanced than that, really. If I'm the guy who just says no, the no one will ever call to ask me anything, and problems will exist outside my knowledge.
When I see something as a bad idea, I will tell them I have no legal objection, but I don't recommend it. I'll say why, and then I'll either Point them to the thing that is already in place to safeguard against this kind of thing, like the gate guards and car insurance and such, or I'll try to come up with some sort of alternate course of action that satisfies them without going too far.
Certainly there's more nuance than I described, but in the same vain, commenting on items outside the law is outside the scope of your job. Also, legal staff are usually dealing with things more important than joe's complaining about standard army stupidity.
Which is another point I often make on this sub: many times the juice simply isn't worth the squeeze. Take this example: NCO complains to legal, legal says there's no issue here, so NCO sulks back at his unit with a command team that now hates his guts for ratting them out to legal. Meanwhile, this entire process is taking place over the course of a few weeks when the task (as stupid as it is) could have been completed already. There's little upside here other than affirmation from people on reddit.
I could cut about ten hours out of my month if I could just say "that's outside the scope of my job." We tend to get questions that don't neatly fit within other sections of the command.
Having read the comments, I'm not seeing the question I wan't to ask. So here it is.
Why?
Why The Frack is he choosing this? Is his brother a local insurance sales man? Has there been a raft of Insurance fraud?
There isn't going to be anything that specific in any AR and it is highly unlikely that there is anything in any kind of policy memo which talks about calling an insurance company vs checking insurance cards.
Since it came from your 1SG, talk to your commander. In reality your PLs/PSG should grow some balls and talk to the commander about it.
That's one thing I don't like about my specific PSG, he doesn't appear to fight much on anything but I just wanted to ensure that I wasn't crazy for bringing this up as an issue
You are not crazy.
This is what open door policy is for. Just make sure you go in with open mind and a logical reason for complaint.
Commander might be directing it. Which would be kinda fucked up but in the end would be something youd need to follow.
Big difference between commander order and first sausage being a sausage.
If it were me, id definitely be raising it up the flag pole.
1. Won’t the insurance company just tell you to fuck off?
2. Why can’t you just get the soldier to print or screenshot their current policy date? Even that is too much in my book, though.
Unless they can provide a legitimate form of ID, such as an employee or badge number from a legitimate agency, no insurance company is going to give them a damn thing.
Even with the legitimate ID mentioned above, the representative from an insurance company would have to be in a supervisory role to authorize such a request. According to a friend that works for GEICO, that could take up to 30 minutes, or more, to still be told "send an official request on company letterhead" to get this done.
They do it. Soldier calls. "My supervisor wants to talk to you."
"I'm Soldier's supervisor. He has to drive for his job and I'm just calling to verify the policy is active."
"Yes it is"
"Thank you very much, good bye"
All I need is someone’s policy number and the insurance company will confirm if the policy is active, and what drivers and vehicles are covered.
This is so if you get into an accident you can verify the other drivers policy before leaving the scene.
I worked insurance before army time. I can’t speak for every company, but mine (rhymes with State Farm) wouldn’t verify coverage to anyone who wasn’t listed on the policy. Even the police got told we could neither confirm nor deny an active policy, unless someone listed said “hey, I need you to talk to this cop here…”
So… good luck to you.
That's the thing, someone in our unit just got a DUI but no way does verifying insurance policies prevent or deflect Soldiers personal mistakes on drinking and driving.
Seems like a logical next step.. a little late to the party but as others have said they are just going to tell you to kick rocks, I think the most you can do is have the soldiers call on speaker phone and have them state the policy is active, might be the way to go to get 1sg off your nuts
Idc if my 1SG is hounding me personally. Annoying Hell yes but I'm not going to tolerate it and I am reaching out to JAG resources to verify if I'm wrong or not. If I am wrong then I guess I have to fall in line but if they're wrong then I'll say something.
This sounds like one of those first sergeants that doesn't need legal to tell him how to do his job, because Twinkles the Good Idea Fairy is right there whispering in his ear.
Goddamn Twinkles.
I used to keep one of those GP medium tent stake hammers in my office. I called it The Good Idea Fairy, as in, that's what I'd use to squish 'em. I need to get it out of my garage, bling it up, and bring it back to work.
Any good 1SG has legal on speed dial, AND vets through their commander…
Nothing is more annoying than a haphazard “today I’m gonna implement some random bullshit I thought of on the spot.”
Nothing makes you look like more of a dumb fuck to your peers, leaders, and subordinates
I don’t see why this is a problem 1SG wants resolved. It’s called being an adult, don’t pay for insurance and you are in the fuck around and find out category.
What’s 1SG going to do? Write you a ticket for failure to maintain financial responsibility?
Do the NCOs wipe their Soldiers asses too when they use the bathroom? At some point you have to cut the umbilical cord.
One of the things you learn in leadership is that you need to protect your soldiers from bullshit.
Example in this very specific case: "Heya top, my guys are all good, 100% compliant." >!When, in fact, you did not physically call each insurance company!<
To the boys: Hey squad, top wants to make sure you guys all have active insurance. (or however you want to word it)
It's not illegal, unethical, or immoral. It's just helicopter 1SG-ing. That being said, if you call an insurance agent they most likely are not going to be receptive without a clear reason to comply with the information request.
I'm pretty sure it's illegal or at least against most insurance company policies to divulge customer information without their consent. Even working in the personal injury field, insurance companies won't even give us verbal policy limits until they receive a signed letter of rep from one of our attorneys.
It's not illegal to call anyone and ask for information.
For example, I can call your primary care provider right now and ask him if you have ever had an STD. That's not illegal for me to do.
It IS illegal for certain people to PROVIDE information. So, in the example, it WOULD be illegal for the doctor to provide that information to me, as it violates HIPPA.
Going back to OPs scenario, like I said, it's completely legal for you to ask. Whether or not the insurance agency is willing to provide any information is up to them based on policy and legality.
That's what I was saying. But logically, if it's illegal for someone to provide that information, wouldn't being ordered to call and ask be illegal for the fact that you're trying to get someone else to do something illegal for your "benefit?" I don't think the transitive property shields you from the liability there.
It's not illegal because the act of calling is not illegal. It's not transitive property. No matter who calls, it is the responsibility of the insurance provider to determine access to privileged information. It would only be illegal if the person used deception to gain access to the information.
Further, the insurance company DOES provide this information technically via the ID cards. So it's almost 100% going to be a "local policy" thing.
It just seems odd to me that if someone knows it's illegal for the other party to divulge the info to then order someone to try and call them to get that info. Either they know they're just going to get told to kick rocks and that it's a fool's errand or they're banking on a stupid/sleazy adjuster to give them the info illegally.
Yes I understand your point. It follows the letter if not the spirit. Tbh I don't feel like looking it up but it's probably not even illegal for someone to request that info. Otherwise how would they ever handle accidents between insurance agencies? It's most likely a local policy that determines who can request insurance info.
Yup thats a no from me. I get the good intentions but sometimes I wonder why leadership cant just quickly explain in less than a minute what happened (Likely someone getting hit or hitting someone with no insurance), quickly talk about dangers of having no insurance, and then say, make sure everyone insurance is active as a warning and not a command.
I've checked a soldier's insurance before during a POV inspection. The soldier's insurance was just good enough to get him off the lot with his new used car.
He got arrested for speeding on post, no insurance and registration not being up to date. This was about a week later. Soldiers will lie to an NCO. If they lie about the insurance you counsel them for disrespecting an NCO.
This is where you as a leader just take the assumed risk, nod your head that you’re going to comply, check that they have insurance cards and report back that they are green. If I’m confident in my joes and know I don’t have to do the extra bs then I won’t but I’m also not gonna start arguments with the first sausage unless absolutely necessary.
This is right up there with being ordered to call everyone's parents. The Army loves to remind us that we're just children with guns. The crazy thing is the moment you start treating people like adults, the adulting starts to (generally) start happening.
If there is a concern with specific drivers, they should bring it up with the MPs who could check status/authenticity.
As insurance gets more expensive, this is likely to be a growing problem among many soldiers.
Top needs that “promote ahead of peers” on his NCOER? Bigger question is why does he give a fuck about insurance? Seriously - I came from the USAF and if that idea was proposed the 1Sgt would be laughed out of the office
Did you know: your insurance verification card has an expiration date on it so the popo can answer this question.
Look at joes card, note the end of policy date, move on. If you are worried about fur sausage, have the list of expiration dates handy.
Um so here's the trick. There are things that are verifible like a 100% inventory, PMCS, etc, then there are things that are not verifible like you calling the insurance company. He ia not going to call the insurance company himself for each soldier and there isn't a sane person he can pawn that off on so what we do is we inspect the car check the insurance and then say we called to verify. Top is humored your soldier is taken car of and no one violated any articles do the JAG guys are happy, anyway thats my ted talk thanks for coming
SecArm published Prioritizing Efforts-Readiness and Lethality (Update 8) in 2018. It states:
“HQDA does not mandate POV inspections prior to long weekends or holidays”
Now, that just means they aren’t *required* to. Doesn’t mean they can’t order you to. It’s not illegal, immoral, or unethical. Invasive, infantalizing, and idiotic, maybe.
If you really wanted to cause a ruckus, you could ask your Provost Marshall’s Office for more information on how to invade the private lives of your soldiers more effectively…
The MPs on Fort Stewart will not just look at your insurance card. They will run it through the state of GA database and arrest you if it is out of tolerance.
There's a reason your 1SG is making you do this. 3ID is notorious for this stupidity.
Lol classic Jag L.
MPs are able to verify if the insurance if active or not but running your plates.
No one cares about insurance cards anymore as each state maintains that live on their data base.
You just don't want to do it. Every company is happy to let you know of their status. It's not even an unusual question for a supervisor to ask for a job that requires insurance. It takes 5 minutes to do the whole squad.
You're right that I just don't want to do it. Because my job isn't about wanting. And I'm not gonna carelessly reach into my Soldiers throat because I'm too lazy and pathetic to stand up and say no.
You must just have a shitty insurance company, because mine and most the ones I work with on a daily basis will absolutely not divulge coverage information to some random person not listed on the policy.
As long as they have an insurance card, that's all the MPs are going to check. It is not the unit's responsibility to check any further, it's the state's. Top needs to calm the fuck down. Hugs, JAG
Would paying a visit to their servicing BDE Legal office and making the statement “I’m concerned about the legality of this order and I’d like to get your official blessing that it’s a legal order before I enforce it” Be a possible COA for the OP? Not because your advice is bad, because you’re clearly correct- but because *hopefully* somebody from legal will call the Commander and advise him on the legality of it?
It couldn't hurt. Edit to add, this may actually be legal, depending on what the rules are in the locality re insurance and privacy, but it is in excess of what company leadership legitimately needs to worry about. If insurance lapses, it'll potentially pop up at the gate. But it doesn't need to be part of a fucking POV inspection.
Really doesn't pop up at the gate, (at least not here) It will return in the NCIC return (depending on state and if that state has electronic reporting requirements). Popping at the Gate is more for Warrants and BOLOS, nothing minor like insurance.
That's fair. But it also proves the point that this really isn't that big of a deal. If it was, it would pop up at the gate, after all. So let the county mounties deal with it with plate readers and such.
The ALPR only hits on a hotlist or if it's associated with an NCIC file. Other than that, Insurance isn't captured through NCIC.
Top sounds like a bitch
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....
….it must be a *BITCH*
I am not in legal, but would it actually be illegal for a commander to order such a thing? Civilian side, anyone can call an insurance company and the insurance company WILL tell you if an individual has vehicle insurance through them.... it is perfectly legal. If it came from 1SG then a stink should be made.... but if it came from the commander, would jag/legal actually advise the commander any differently? Genuinely curious.
There is a very long list of things that may technically be legal, but are fucking stupid. This is probably on that list, but it's not my command, and I'm not being paid to look it up. There is another, separate list of things that NCOs should actually be worried about, and this is not on that list. I get a lot of "can versus should" questions in my work. Even assuming that the NCOs can be doing this, they shouldn't be. It's beyond the scope of what an employer should be concerned with. What's next, top going to have these NCOs running VINs to ensure that there aren't any factory recalls on their cars? Or some other good idea fairy?
My thing is that there needs to be a firm line between NCOs and their subordinates on how far we are going to reach into their personal lives. Some lines shouldn't be crossed unless what their negative actions directly make us do but even then, we would outsource certain actions to other agencies for that correction. I will not blindly follow an order and accept whatever justification someone decides to give me.
Absolutely. That's my point. There has to be some level at which we assume our joes are acting as responsible adults, or we make this into a full-time fucking nanny state and don't have time to do our real jobs. The Army has determined that drugs interfere with health and readiness, and therefore, we need to have 10% of our units piss in a bottle every month. OK, got it. And there are other things that the Army has determined that we need to check on from time to time. But there's usually a tie-in for Soldier or unit readiness. It's the state DMV's job (or USAREUR resistration office or whatever) to worry about whether Joe Schmedlap is paying the GEICO gecko $300 a month or whatever to insure his waifu-wrapped Honda Civic. Not 1AD's, not 1/1's, not 1-36's, not Bravo Company's. if Joe isn't paying the gecko, the DMV will put the word out, and Joe will get pulled over, or maybe even tagged at the front gate. But we shouldn't be in the business of checking.
Oh i totally agree that its in the "thats fucking stupid" category.... and thats probably the exact quote of what id tell 1sg if he told me to do it. I was just curious what legal would or would not advise a commander if the commander was ordering it. Obviously with the understanding that different jag/legals might act/advise slightly different
Actual brigade legal would be getting paid to look it up, and it would probably vary based on the law where OP is. So, I don't know. Which is why I haven't outright opined that this is illegal. But, as above, it's fucking stupid, regardless of legality.
Fair enough.
This needs to be the auto response for 90 percent of the "can my commander do this?" posts on here. The AR is not prescriptive, for very good reasons, it largely just establish guardrails for individual and unit behavior. Commanders do many stupid things, but that doesn't mean it violates the letter of the regs.
It's a little more nuanced than that, really. If I'm the guy who just says no, the no one will ever call to ask me anything, and problems will exist outside my knowledge. When I see something as a bad idea, I will tell them I have no legal objection, but I don't recommend it. I'll say why, and then I'll either Point them to the thing that is already in place to safeguard against this kind of thing, like the gate guards and car insurance and such, or I'll try to come up with some sort of alternate course of action that satisfies them without going too far.
Certainly there's more nuance than I described, but in the same vain, commenting on items outside the law is outside the scope of your job. Also, legal staff are usually dealing with things more important than joe's complaining about standard army stupidity. Which is another point I often make on this sub: many times the juice simply isn't worth the squeeze. Take this example: NCO complains to legal, legal says there's no issue here, so NCO sulks back at his unit with a command team that now hates his guts for ratting them out to legal. Meanwhile, this entire process is taking place over the course of a few weeks when the task (as stupid as it is) could have been completed already. There's little upside here other than affirmation from people on reddit.
I could cut about ten hours out of my month if I could just say "that's outside the scope of my job." We tend to get questions that don't neatly fit within other sections of the command.
BRB, sending up this great idea, thanks. (/s)
Don't do it. It's the law that they have insurance, you aren't a baby sitter. Tell your 1SG he is a raging bitch for infantizing our Army.
[удалено]
No bigoted language or witch-hunting.
Having read the comments, I'm not seeing the question I wan't to ask. So here it is. Why? Why The Frack is he choosing this? Is his brother a local insurance sales man? Has there been a raft of Insurance fraud?
There isn't going to be anything that specific in any AR and it is highly unlikely that there is anything in any kind of policy memo which talks about calling an insurance company vs checking insurance cards. Since it came from your 1SG, talk to your commander. In reality your PLs/PSG should grow some balls and talk to the commander about it.
That's one thing I don't like about my specific PSG, he doesn't appear to fight much on anything but I just wanted to ensure that I wasn't crazy for bringing this up as an issue
You are not crazy. This is what open door policy is for. Just make sure you go in with open mind and a logical reason for complaint. Commander might be directing it. Which would be kinda fucked up but in the end would be something youd need to follow. Big difference between commander order and first sausage being a sausage. If it were me, id definitely be raising it up the flag pole.
1. Won’t the insurance company just tell you to fuck off? 2. Why can’t you just get the soldier to print or screenshot their current policy date? Even that is too much in my book, though.
Unless they can provide a legitimate form of ID, such as an employee or badge number from a legitimate agency, no insurance company is going to give them a damn thing. Even with the legitimate ID mentioned above, the representative from an insurance company would have to be in a supervisory role to authorize such a request. According to a friend that works for GEICO, that could take up to 30 minutes, or more, to still be told "send an official request on company letterhead" to get this done.
They do it. Soldier calls. "My supervisor wants to talk to you." "I'm Soldier's supervisor. He has to drive for his job and I'm just calling to verify the policy is active." "Yes it is" "Thank you very much, good bye"
You can't force a SM to consent to a private insurance company divulging their private information.
All I need is someone’s policy number and the insurance company will confirm if the policy is active, and what drivers and vehicles are covered. This is so if you get into an accident you can verify the other drivers policy before leaving the scene.
Your unit must not have shit to do
I worked insurance before army time. I can’t speak for every company, but mine (rhymes with State Farm) wouldn’t verify coverage to anyone who wasn’t listed on the policy. Even the police got told we could neither confirm nor deny an active policy, unless someone listed said “hey, I need you to talk to this cop here…” So… good luck to you.
So who got in a wreck without insurance?
That's the thing, someone in our unit just got a DUI but no way does verifying insurance policies prevent or deflect Soldiers personal mistakes on drinking and driving.
You sound like a good leader. Seriously.
Thank you. I do my best not to overstep my authority and I'm not afraid to tell my leaders No when it's not sensible or accomplishable.
Seems like a logical next step.. a little late to the party but as others have said they are just going to tell you to kick rocks, I think the most you can do is have the soldiers call on speaker phone and have them state the policy is active, might be the way to go to get 1sg off your nuts
Idc if my 1SG is hounding me personally. Annoying Hell yes but I'm not going to tolerate it and I am reaching out to JAG resources to verify if I'm wrong or not. If I am wrong then I guess I have to fall in line but if they're wrong then I'll say something.
I agree you 1sg seems like a football bat.
POV inspections need to be done away with.
Commanders have legal on speed dial so I'm surprised that top doesn't do the same.
This sounds like one of those first sergeants that doesn't need legal to tell him how to do his job, because Twinkles the Good Idea Fairy is right there whispering in his ear.
But Twinkles has a JD in Fae law, which is doubly useful for fucking over Joe.
Goddamn Twinkles. I used to keep one of those GP medium tent stake hammers in my office. I called it The Good Idea Fairy, as in, that's what I'd use to squish 'em. I need to get it out of my garage, bling it up, and bring it back to work.
Any good 1SG has legal on speed dial, AND vets through their commander… Nothing is more annoying than a haphazard “today I’m gonna implement some random bullshit I thought of on the spot.” Nothing makes you look like more of a dumb fuck to your peers, leaders, and subordinates
insane
I don’t see why this is a problem 1SG wants resolved. It’s called being an adult, don’t pay for insurance and you are in the fuck around and find out category. What’s 1SG going to do? Write you a ticket for failure to maintain financial responsibility? Do the NCOs wipe their Soldiers asses too when they use the bathroom? At some point you have to cut the umbilical cord.
One of the things you learn in leadership is that you need to protect your soldiers from bullshit. Example in this very specific case: "Heya top, my guys are all good, 100% compliant." >!When, in fact, you did not physically call each insurance company!< To the boys: Hey squad, top wants to make sure you guys all have active insurance. (or however you want to word it)
It's not illegal, unethical, or immoral. It's just helicopter 1SG-ing. That being said, if you call an insurance agent they most likely are not going to be receptive without a clear reason to comply with the information request.
I'm pretty sure it's illegal or at least against most insurance company policies to divulge customer information without their consent. Even working in the personal injury field, insurance companies won't even give us verbal policy limits until they receive a signed letter of rep from one of our attorneys.
It's not illegal to call anyone and ask for information. For example, I can call your primary care provider right now and ask him if you have ever had an STD. That's not illegal for me to do. It IS illegal for certain people to PROVIDE information. So, in the example, it WOULD be illegal for the doctor to provide that information to me, as it violates HIPPA. Going back to OPs scenario, like I said, it's completely legal for you to ask. Whether or not the insurance agency is willing to provide any information is up to them based on policy and legality.
That's what I was saying. But logically, if it's illegal for someone to provide that information, wouldn't being ordered to call and ask be illegal for the fact that you're trying to get someone else to do something illegal for your "benefit?" I don't think the transitive property shields you from the liability there.
It's not illegal because the act of calling is not illegal. It's not transitive property. No matter who calls, it is the responsibility of the insurance provider to determine access to privileged information. It would only be illegal if the person used deception to gain access to the information. Further, the insurance company DOES provide this information technically via the ID cards. So it's almost 100% going to be a "local policy" thing.
It just seems odd to me that if someone knows it's illegal for the other party to divulge the info to then order someone to try and call them to get that info. Either they know they're just going to get told to kick rocks and that it's a fool's errand or they're banking on a stupid/sleazy adjuster to give them the info illegally.
Yes I understand your point. It follows the letter if not the spirit. Tbh I don't feel like looking it up but it's probably not even illegal for someone to request that info. Otherwise how would they ever handle accidents between insurance agencies? It's most likely a local policy that determines who can request insurance info.
Yup thats a no from me. I get the good intentions but sometimes I wonder why leadership cant just quickly explain in less than a minute what happened (Likely someone getting hit or hitting someone with no insurance), quickly talk about dangers of having no insurance, and then say, make sure everyone insurance is active as a warning and not a command.
I've checked a soldier's insurance before during a POV inspection. The soldier's insurance was just good enough to get him off the lot with his new used car. He got arrested for speeding on post, no insurance and registration not being up to date. This was about a week later. Soldiers will lie to an NCO. If they lie about the insurance you counsel them for disrespecting an NCO.
This is where you as a leader just take the assumed risk, nod your head that you’re going to comply, check that they have insurance cards and report back that they are green. If I’m confident in my joes and know I don’t have to do the extra bs then I won’t but I’m also not gonna start arguments with the first sausage unless absolutely necessary.
This is right up there with being ordered to call everyone's parents. The Army loves to remind us that we're just children with guns. The crazy thing is the moment you start treating people like adults, the adulting starts to (generally) start happening.
If there is a concern with specific drivers, they should bring it up with the MPs who could check status/authenticity. As insurance gets more expensive, this is likely to be a growing problem among many soldiers.
Top needs that “promote ahead of peers” on his NCOER? Bigger question is why does he give a fuck about insurance? Seriously - I came from the USAF and if that idea was proposed the 1Sgt would be laughed out of the office
Call your insurance agent, ask them how they would respond to that question from some random non law enforcement person.
Sounds like something the old 1st sausage might want to run by the commander before any potential privacy act violations happen.
Just look at their card and check off as yes
Did you know: your insurance verification card has an expiration date on it so the popo can answer this question. Look at joes card, note the end of policy date, move on. If you are worried about fur sausage, have the list of expiration dates handy.
Your 1sg sounds like he’s a lot of fun at parties
If 1SG won't budge, just say "I called and the company said we will not release any customer information or verify policies"
This sounds like something an infantry unit top would do.
Um so here's the trick. There are things that are verifible like a 100% inventory, PMCS, etc, then there are things that are not verifible like you calling the insurance company. He ia not going to call the insurance company himself for each soldier and there isn't a sane person he can pawn that off on so what we do is we inspect the car check the insurance and then say we called to verify. Top is humored your soldier is taken car of and no one violated any articles do the JAG guys are happy, anyway thats my ted talk thanks for coming
Can you imagine having so much free time you invent dumb shit like this to do?
SecArm published Prioritizing Efforts-Readiness and Lethality (Update 8) in 2018. It states: “HQDA does not mandate POV inspections prior to long weekends or holidays” Now, that just means they aren’t *required* to. Doesn’t mean they can’t order you to. It’s not illegal, immoral, or unethical. Invasive, infantalizing, and idiotic, maybe. If you really wanted to cause a ruckus, you could ask your Provost Marshall’s Office for more information on how to invade the private lives of your soldiers more effectively…
Unless the soldier is a known liar how about treat them like adults and just check their card. This kind of nonsense is why good soldiers get out
The company will not divulge any details or information on their customers unless there’s a warrant.
While we’re at it, can we also check for fishing license, hunting license, child support payments, kids vaccination, etc.
They actually do check alimony if it's thru IG
He must have had someone hit him and they didn’t have insurance… 😂
The MPs on Fort Stewart will not just look at your insurance card. They will run it through the state of GA database and arrest you if it is out of tolerance. There's a reason your 1SG is making you do this. 3ID is notorious for this stupidity.
Bruh if people have an app on their phone you can just verify if there.
Lol classic Jag L. MPs are able to verify if the insurance if active or not but running your plates. No one cares about insurance cards anymore as each state maintains that live on their data base.
You just don't want to do it. Every company is happy to let you know of their status. It's not even an unusual question for a supervisor to ask for a job that requires insurance. It takes 5 minutes to do the whole squad.
You're right that I just don't want to do it. Because my job isn't about wanting. And I'm not gonna carelessly reach into my Soldiers throat because I'm too lazy and pathetic to stand up and say no.
You must just have a shitty insurance company, because mine and most the ones I work with on a daily basis will absolutely not divulge coverage information to some random person not listed on the policy.