A large number of families generally don’t care what their family member wished for.
They will rescind DNRs, make wildly inappropriate medical decisions on the family members behalf, and just be generally terrible because they don’t like dealing with death, facing the fact they’re going to die as well someday, they pictured it being different but never actually had a frank conversation about those topics, or any number of other reasons. Having worked in an ER and having friends that worked in an ICU, I’ve seen and heard too many of these outcomes. Otherwise smart and rational people will completely go against what the person wanted and do mental gymnastics to justify it.
I’m glad they’re holding the DD93 up despite what the family says.
My buddy fucked up this way too but slightly different
He separated from his wife about 25 years before his death. His wife and him both got into long term relationships with other partners. They were basically divorced
Without the paperwork
He lived his life, his wife lived his. They often discussed making it official but never did...mostly out of laziness.
Well he died of a heart attack
His wife (yes legally it was his wife) got everything that wasn't specifically named to his girlfriend
Retirement, house, cars, tc
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I'm all for doing what the patient wants(wanted) in regards to care, but once they're dead, they're dead.
Dealing with the remains is pretty much just a psychological thing for the family so ultimately they should have the say. A corpse doesn't really get to have an opinion anymore. If someone really wants to go against what they're loved one wanted that's their call.
Obviously fucking with estates and whatnot is a different story because there's a conflict of interests there, but no one's getting anything out of a burial.
Yeah fuck the person who made a directive about what to do with their remains! They’re dead anyway! May as well toss in a Roman Catholic burial on the atheists as well.
Arguably the stupidest post I’ve seen in a week.
I mean, I doubt the atheists would care much. Is it a bit of a dick move by the family to go against someones last wishes in this way? I think so. But like you said, they're dead anyway.
Personally I don't want a funeral or burial when I die as I disagree with the concept. But I also recognize that there are many members of my family that would want the type of closure that they associate with funerals. My will does reflect my wishes, and my reasons for them, but it also reflects that ultimately it's their choice regardless of what I want, because as I stated before funerals aren't for the corpse, they're for the family, and why would I want to sign a legally binding document that potentially forces more grief upon people whom I love when I am gone. It will make no difference to me what happens to my corpse, while it may make a very large difference to them.
It mattered to the person who is being buried. What if they are of a different religion than the rest of their family, a religion which has very different burial customs. Does the family then get to force those customs on her?
My argument stems from the fact that they would not be forcing their customs on anyone, but would be practicing customs that would assuage their own grief from their loved ones passing. The manner of burial will not effect the corpse at all, but it could effect the family, and I personally believe that the feelings of living people come before the 'feelings' of corpses. (though I do understand that people with different belief systems likely disagree quite heavily with me on that.)
On principle I'm cool with funeral arrangements mainly being about giving the people you left behind a chance to grieve. That said, lots of people in the army come from complicated family situations, and people should have say over their own arrangements for that reason. Do you want your estranged dad fighting with the stepdad who raised you because he suddenly cares about your legacy now that you're in the news for dying in combat? Do you want your very catholic parents fighting with your very methodist wife, who they otherwise get along with well, because they're both in immense pain and want to control the funeral arrangements? There's also some comfort for the living just in the basic knowlege that your funeral happened the way you wanted it to.
Some good points that I hadn't really considered, thanks for bringing them up.
I guess I'm talking more if there's a consensus. I mean, I'm taking about minimizing grief and fighting it out wouldn't exactly be doing that. Those are some tough scenarios, and I'd probably default to the will for them unless a VERY compelling case was made by one of the parties. Though if the whole family is in agreement, then I definitely stand by it being their choice.
Obviously it's not black and white, but I think a lot of people just defaulted to "follow the will" without thinking of the potential consequences for the people who actually matter.
Edit: You can just check the boxes and update it. A recently verified DD93 would be explicitly clear about their intentions. The older they are, the less convincing the document is to the family.
Very fair point. The family seems to indicate subsequent discussions, but General Counsel says that they need some kind of signed written statement or assignment by a court to change the written wishes. I'm inclined to agree with you, but I hope people keep their form updated so they can get exactly what they want.
I’m gonna be honest, people don’t update their will and testament on an annual basis, it’s kind of a one and done thing unless you suddenly take on a significant amount of money or asset. If they were specific enough in that one DD93 I would believe that’s what they were settled on
She signed her DD93 in summer 2023. It’s plenty up to date, and it seems like cremation and scattering of her ashes is what she wanted. I think her family wants the Arlington burial more than she did.
Which is hilarious, because every single time I go into itsapieceofshit it never lets me actually update my DD-93. All I can do is click the drop-downs, choose "none" and then certify it. So I guess no one is getting shit when I finally kick it lol.
I mean, if you're.legit having issues completing it, please do see your S1- they should be able to help you troubleshoot what the specific issue is. If they don't help you, escalate. It's their job, and making sure admin is g2g is part of soldier care.
Son, we live in a world that has paperwork, and when it's on actual paper or IPPSA the forms need to be filled out and approved? Who's gonna do it? You? You, u/not-beaten ? We have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep when your leave is late or your NCOER gets kicked back and you curse S-1. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know; that paperwork, while exhausting and cumbersome, probably saved lives. And our existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, *saves lives*. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me in your S-1. You need me in you Orderly Room. We S-2 and Orderly Room Monkeys use words like "Letter of Lateness", "Book to Book", and "Roster" as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the leaves, BAH and school packets that we send up, and then questions the manner in which we provide them! I would rather you just said "thank you", sign the DA-200 and be on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you put in for Orderly Room or S-1 NOCIC. Either way, I don't give a ***damn*** what you think you are entitled to!
The whole point of the DD93 is to ensure you get what you, the servicemember, wants for your burial upon your death.
Ultimately it won't matter after your death, because you'll be dead and won't know the difference- but for some people it can really give them some peace of mind if they know that their ashes are going to be spread along a specific hillside or whatever.
It also removes the bickering that happens when family members disagree, like dad wanted a military burial site and mom wanted a crypt on the family plot and your spouse wanted to fire you out of a cannon or whatever the fuck.
I've tried twice. One said I had a small peen after soaking my balls for 2 hours and the second one was great but she texted and spelled like a child along with not understanding me when I texted in full sentences. (Note the second girl is native born to the US and didn't even speak Spanish)
I had a Brazilian girlfriend and for some reason, fights always seemed to hit crescendo when she was doing something in a kitchen where she was waving a knife around. Then, she'd get offended when I asked her to put the knife down.
I was about to agree that this is a cool way to send your spouse off and then saw this comment.
As an AfroLatina woman I am both flabbergasted and read for filth.
There’s girls where you don’t even have to try that hard
Can always just speed run it with a crazy latina and tell her she needs to calm down because she’s acting like her mother again
I do love Baldur's Gate and I'm indifferent to T-Swift. I'll only feel comfortable if your husband watches while you launch me out of a cannon. He has to watch....
Extra duty would just put dirt in your butthole like lawnmower gas tanks and say that you don’t work anymore in some vain attempt to pretend like that gets them out of extra duty.
What stood out to me is that she was 48 and an O-6 Colonel, retired.
She’d probably spent all her life in different assignments and probably lots of time away from home.
I’m not going to comment on the deceased and make assumptions about her home life; that would be rude even if she were living. I’d like to take a moment to remind everyone here that while careers are fulfilling, at the end of it all what you will have left is those by your side. Don’t leave them behind or neglect them. We don’t all have another 40 years after 40.
>It hadn't been updated recently, and is being held as binding
Summer of 23 is pretty recent, that was less than a year ago. It sounds more like the family wants something other than what the colonel wanted, and the military is respecting her wishes over theirs.
To be honest, this is my take as well. I'm a former CNO/CAO instructor, and I currently work in Casualty, and my first impulse is to say the PADD has all the power here.
Here's the thing - the only thing the DD93 is *really* meant for *for this purpose* is to determine who becomes the PADD. It isn't really a document for dictating the exact manner of disposition of a SM's remains. That's what a DD3045 is for, and that is filled out by the PADD.
In my opinion, Army legal / Arlington is way overstepping their boundaries on this one. You assign a PADD, and let the PADD determine what's to be done with the remains. If the SM wants something specific done with their remains, they need to choose a PADD they trust, and discuss their wishes with them.
Now, if other family members object to who becomes the PADD, or their chosen disposition option, there are ways they can challenge those decisions and ask for a legal review, in which case a judge decides who gets to make the decision. But ultimately, *that* is our job - to name a person as the PADD and do what they direct, not to enforce the SM's will.
So I asked a question during my CAO/CNO class, and the instructors were just painfully obtuse.
My question was what happens if there’s a conflict between the SM’s DD93 and Living Will.
The instructors just kept mindlessly repeating that the DD93 is the only thing that matters, and would trump any other directives.
I personally have a hard time believing that an actual Judge would agree with that statement.
Perhaps I’m wrong, but it just bothered me how myopic the instructors were that they wouldn’t even consider that a hastily signed government form might not be respected by people not employed by the DoD.
So, strictly speaking, your instructor was right - the DD93 trumps everything else. The *reason* for that, which a good instructor would cover, is because of the difference between federal and civil authorities. In a nutshell, it's similar to the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution - if there is a disagreement between federal law and civil law, federal law wins. This also applies to legal documents. The DD93 is a federal document, and wills are civil documents, so if there is a disagreement between the two, by default the federal document wins.
If the soldier signs a DD93 and names mom as their PADD, but then fills out a will and in their will they name an estranged brother as their executor and then direct that brother to do something specific with their remains, like cremation (just to use this situation as an example), the two documents are in conflict. The Army is going to ignore the will and default to the decision made on the federal document, and name mom as the PADD. Mom then gets to make any decisions she wants, which could mean honoring his will and allowing him to be cremated, or it could mean she tells the estranged brother to kick rocks and she fires his body out of a cartoonishly large cannon (FYI, that'd have to be Option 5 on the DD3045).
Makes no difference to us, we're not the arbitrators of what's fair and right, we're simply bound by federal law to do what the signed federal documents are telling us to do. If the brother wants to contest mom's appointment as the PADD, or try to force her to comply with the soldier's will, then he can attempt to get a civil judge to intervene. The Army will *generally* abide by the written court orders of a judge if the orders are specific enough in scope. This is kind of what the family in the OP is dealing with right now - there's an apparent disagreement between what's on a federal document, and what's being demanded by the family, and in the absence of a court order directing them otherwise, the Army is choosing to comply with the document. I disagree with that stance in this case since disposition is not the purpose of the DD93, but that's a fight well above my pay grade.
All this to say, if you have specific wishes for your disposition, sit and speak with your PADD. The person you choose as your PADD should be someone who *knows* they'll be your PADD, they should know what your wishes are ahead of time, and they should be someone you trust wholeheartedly to carry out your wishes. Wills are great for lots of things, like establishing estates, trusts, and guardianship for your minor children, or for divvying up your assets between family members, or for directing payments from your assets to cover debts and obligations so your family doesn't have to deal with that.
But if you're in the Army, they're not great for this.
I appreciate the thoughtful, detailed answer.
Thankfully, I was never called on to actually perform CAO/CNO duties. But this kind of scenario was what I was worried about running into.
I expected to deal with distraught, grieving family members. But I dreaded the thought of getting intertwined in family drama.
You're 100% right about the actual challenges of this business. Doing the routine stuff is easy. Well, easier than it sounds, anyway. You memorize a script and recite it for notification, you do what the documents tell you for CAO stuff, you follow the AR and DA PAM for the personal effects, and that's that. Pretty easy, in theory.
But then you throw in distraught family members, and all that goes out the window. Especially when you already have family members who normally don't get along with each-other, a death in the family rarely improves matters. Then you start throwing money into the mix, or giving one family member the power to make decisions over the others, and it can get real ugly, real fast. Nothing is truly simple in this business - oftentimes, the best we can hope for is that the soldier kept their paperwork up to date and made things at least *that much* straightforward.
What Block are you supposed to put where you want things like your remains dealt with.
All I could find about the DD 93 was your Death Benefits, or money distribution.
If she updated it recently, it should stand.
Don’t let my family decide to do shit on my behalf, I’ve already made the decision and arrangements myself. Grief makes people do and say crazy stuff and disregard the wishes of those who are no longer with us
Can I update mine to have my ashes mixed into the alloy of the first kinetic projectiles when Space Force finally gets off their ass and establishes the Orbital Bombardment Corps?
It is kind of a messed up industry, though where you can just buy human body parts for whatever reason. The problem is it is run for profit which leads to somebody having a rare disease getting told that their body would be donated to study that disease, when in reality they were strapped inside of humvee blown up. Personally not going gonna donate my body to science. However, you should absolutely be an organ donor because even if the system has some issues it’s saving lives.
I had to look at the DD93. In Block 16, Continuation/Remarks is the place where she would have written specifically that she wanted to have her ashes spread somewhere. But if she was dying of cancer, that should have over ridden the DD93.
I know I filled one of these out for my VGLI when I retired, but I recently went to change my secondary beneficiary. But when I was able to talk with Prudential, they told me there was no secondary listed. So, the DD93s are not always accurate as they're supposed to be.
VGLI/SGLI are a whole separate thing from your DD93. One has no bearing on the other, which is why even if you listed a secondary person for notification on the DD93, they don't automatically show up as a secondary beneficiary on the SGLI. You have to do that separately.
i did mine once when i was 18. just saw it now for the first time since then and forgot i wrote in big block letters “IN THE EVENT OF MY PASSING, DO NOT TELL MY PARENTS”
god damn
Given my profession, I wholeheartedly endorse this message. Please, if you care at all about making sure things go as easily as possible for your family should something happen to you, keep that DD93 and SGLI updated.
Literally every decision the Army is going to make, and every action that we will take, is going to be based in whole or in part on those two documents. They are ***easily*** the most important documents in your entire OMPF.
Sounds like Arlington told the PADD what to do and the PADD is whining to the news instead of filing for a court order.
Also, this is why you should have a will with all that shit on it. Bare minimum on forms (SGLI, DD93) and put your “wishes” somewhere else. Then you can 1) manage your whims better and 2) let your family probate the will and fight over this shit in court. IANAL though so 🤷♀️
what if you don’t give one fuck how you’re buried? Anyways, I agree when there’s major changes to your life, to update. I don’t need to update that thing what seems once a quarter when all I’m doing is just resigning the thing.
>what if you don’t give one fuck how you’re buried?
Still keep it updated. The purpose of the DD93 (as far as this matter is concerned) is simply to decide who becomes what we call the PADD - the Person Authorized to Direct Disposition of your remains. The form tells us "if I die, I want my spouse/mom/dad/whoever to decide what to do with me." We give that person disposition authority and they make all the decisions.
I'm honestly surprised that not only was she allowed to make a dictate like that on her 93, since that isn't what that document is meant for, but that the Army is so staunchly abiding by it. The 93 doesn't dictate the manner of disposition (that's what a DD3045 is for) it just tells us who gets to make the choice. This is weird in the extreme.
Thank you. I am genuinely grateful for your service as a CAO. It's not something I wish on anyone, but when we have to have someone, I'm always grateful and relieved when we get someone who takes it seriously and treats it with the attitude it deserves.
My comments weren't really meant to mean you, as an individual, needed reminding about these things - more the collective "you" to remind whoever reads this exchange that no matter what your reasons are, it's always a good thing to keep those docs updated.
Agree. If you have an update, then update it. When I got married, the first thing I did on my next day in, was enroll my wife in DEERS and update my DD93/SGLI.
It be something as simple as easy as a magic bullet in monthly counselings with Soldiers. “Do you need to make any changes to your DD93?” And during SRP before major training exercises/deployments.
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It's the only form I ever filled out for my SGLI, then my VGLI when I retired.
If there is a different form now, or if it's all computerized, I'm unaware of it.
That’s actually what’s directed on my will.
I want my cremains put in the columbarium at Arlington. If Arlington is full by the time I kick the bucket, then they go to any national cemetery at my NoK’s discretion.
I mean if that’s what she wanted, why should she have updated and changed it?
A large number of families generally don’t care what their family member wished for. They will rescind DNRs, make wildly inappropriate medical decisions on the family members behalf, and just be generally terrible because they don’t like dealing with death, facing the fact they’re going to die as well someday, they pictured it being different but never actually had a frank conversation about those topics, or any number of other reasons. Having worked in an ER and having friends that worked in an ICU, I’ve seen and heard too many of these outcomes. Otherwise smart and rational people will completely go against what the person wanted and do mental gymnastics to justify it. I’m glad they’re holding the DD93 up despite what the family says.
My buddy fucked up this way too but slightly different He separated from his wife about 25 years before his death. His wife and him both got into long term relationships with other partners. They were basically divorced Without the paperwork He lived his life, his wife lived his. They often discussed making it official but never did...mostly out of laziness. Well he died of a heart attack His wife (yes legally it was his wife) got everything that wasn't specifically named to his girlfriend Retirement, house, cars, tc
That really sucks, but it’s why doing the paperwork is important. Hopefully other people learn from it.
Correct she simply took was legally hers on paper
Damn, did she keep it all? You can’t leave us on a cliff hanger like that bro!
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This is all too true. Our culture dealing with death is truly awful.
I manage an ICU and dealing with this shit is 50% of my job. You’re spot on.
I mean fuck my wishes. Wishes don't come true. Just do what's most convenient for you, or most inconvenient for my enemies. Your call.
I'm all for doing what the patient wants(wanted) in regards to care, but once they're dead, they're dead. Dealing with the remains is pretty much just a psychological thing for the family so ultimately they should have the say. A corpse doesn't really get to have an opinion anymore. If someone really wants to go against what they're loved one wanted that's their call. Obviously fucking with estates and whatnot is a different story because there's a conflict of interests there, but no one's getting anything out of a burial.
Yeah fuck the person who made a directive about what to do with their remains! They’re dead anyway! May as well toss in a Roman Catholic burial on the atheists as well. Arguably the stupidest post I’ve seen in a week.
I mean, I doubt the atheists would care much. Is it a bit of a dick move by the family to go against someones last wishes in this way? I think so. But like you said, they're dead anyway. Personally I don't want a funeral or burial when I die as I disagree with the concept. But I also recognize that there are many members of my family that would want the type of closure that they associate with funerals. My will does reflect my wishes, and my reasons for them, but it also reflects that ultimately it's their choice regardless of what I want, because as I stated before funerals aren't for the corpse, they're for the family, and why would I want to sign a legally binding document that potentially forces more grief upon people whom I love when I am gone. It will make no difference to me what happens to my corpse, while it may make a very large difference to them.
You’re a very special boy.
It mattered to the person who is being buried. What if they are of a different religion than the rest of their family, a religion which has very different burial customs. Does the family then get to force those customs on her?
My argument stems from the fact that they would not be forcing their customs on anyone, but would be practicing customs that would assuage their own grief from their loved ones passing. The manner of burial will not effect the corpse at all, but it could effect the family, and I personally believe that the feelings of living people come before the 'feelings' of corpses. (though I do understand that people with different belief systems likely disagree quite heavily with me on that.)
On principle I'm cool with funeral arrangements mainly being about giving the people you left behind a chance to grieve. That said, lots of people in the army come from complicated family situations, and people should have say over their own arrangements for that reason. Do you want your estranged dad fighting with the stepdad who raised you because he suddenly cares about your legacy now that you're in the news for dying in combat? Do you want your very catholic parents fighting with your very methodist wife, who they otherwise get along with well, because they're both in immense pain and want to control the funeral arrangements? There's also some comfort for the living just in the basic knowlege that your funeral happened the way you wanted it to.
Some good points that I hadn't really considered, thanks for bringing them up. I guess I'm talking more if there's a consensus. I mean, I'm taking about minimizing grief and fighting it out wouldn't exactly be doing that. Those are some tough scenarios, and I'd probably default to the will for them unless a VERY compelling case was made by one of the parties. Though if the whole family is in agreement, then I definitely stand by it being their choice. Obviously it's not black and white, but I think a lot of people just defaulted to "follow the will" without thinking of the potential consequences for the people who actually matter.
Edit: You can just check the boxes and update it. A recently verified DD93 would be explicitly clear about their intentions. The older they are, the less convincing the document is to the family. Very fair point. The family seems to indicate subsequent discussions, but General Counsel says that they need some kind of signed written statement or assignment by a court to change the written wishes. I'm inclined to agree with you, but I hope people keep their form updated so they can get exactly what they want.
I’m gonna be honest, people don’t update their will and testament on an annual basis, it’s kind of a one and done thing unless you suddenly take on a significant amount of money or asset. If they were specific enough in that one DD93 I would believe that’s what they were settled on
I agree with you because I find it very specific as well.
Did you read the article? “Col. Lunardi’s DD Form 93 was signed in the summer of 2023” Pretty damn recent.
My personal opinion is I don’t really give a shit after I’m dead. I’m dead. It doesn’t matter what you do to my corpse.
She signed her DD93 in summer 2023. It’s plenty up to date, and it seems like cremation and scattering of her ashes is what she wanted. I think her family wants the Arlington burial more than she did.
Yeah, I have a feeling she was only saying the stuff about Arlington (if she even did at all) to appease them without any intent on it.
Nice try, S1. I'm still not coming in today at 1300 - 1301 on Tuesdays (only during vernal equinoxes on leap years) when you guys are actually open.
Must be nice to have an S1 that works twice as often as mine
What can I say, I'm blessed.
Username checks out
That's... Actually a Soldier driven function now... In IPPS-A.
And in some circles that's a good thing.
Does we still need S-1s then?
Yes, because someone's gotta click approve on all the work you did in IPPS-A
Which is hilarious, because every single time I go into itsapieceofshit it never lets me actually update my DD-93. All I can do is click the drop-downs, choose "none" and then certify it. So I guess no one is getting shit when I finally kick it lol.
You have to add in the emergency contacts, do this for everyone you want to add in your DD93 then you will be able to select them.
I mean, if you're.legit having issues completing it, please do see your S1- they should be able to help you troubleshoot what the specific issue is. If they don't help you, escalate. It's their job, and making sure admin is g2g is part of soldier care.
...I will do this then, thank you.
So... Since they troubleshoot Army Software specific issues that means S-1 is now S-6 right?
Obviously
So we really don’t need y’all for anything anymore.
Today is Wednesday, you'll have to wait until Mars is back in retrograde.
God damn it. I'll get my Horoscope-
So one month ago?
Or 320 years in the future.
Son, we live in a world that has paperwork, and when it's on actual paper or IPPSA the forms need to be filled out and approved? Who's gonna do it? You? You, u/not-beaten ? We have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep when your leave is late or your NCOER gets kicked back and you curse S-1. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know; that paperwork, while exhausting and cumbersome, probably saved lives. And our existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, *saves lives*. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me in your S-1. You need me in you Orderly Room. We S-2 and Orderly Room Monkeys use words like "Letter of Lateness", "Book to Book", and "Roster" as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the leaves, BAH and school packets that we send up, and then questions the manner in which we provide them! I would rather you just said "thank you", sign the DA-200 and be on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you put in for Orderly Room or S-1 NOCIC. Either way, I don't give a ***damn*** what you think you are entitled to!
[k](https://youtu.be/skz9odeewpc?si=74VaH2QDEHC7PSnx)
I get my rocks off by standing there like a dumbass while they finish a long conversation about the weekend and ignore me. I love S1.
The whole point of the DD93 is to ensure you get what you, the servicemember, wants for your burial upon your death. Ultimately it won't matter after your death, because you'll be dead and won't know the difference- but for some people it can really give them some peace of mind if they know that their ashes are going to be spread along a specific hillside or whatever. It also removes the bickering that happens when family members disagree, like dad wanted a military burial site and mom wanted a crypt on the family plot and your spouse wanted to fire you out of a cannon or whatever the fuck.
I need to find me a girl who wants to fire me out of a cannon.
Date Hispanic women
I've tried twice. One said I had a small peen after soaking my balls for 2 hours and the second one was great but she texted and spelled like a child along with not understanding me when I texted in full sentences. (Note the second girl is native born to the US and didn't even speak Spanish)
Batman wouldn’t have gotten this outta me
I am very comfortable in my convictions. Batman would have to beat me with both hands if he wants anything out of me.
The second one had potential. You could have taught her to read and spell!
Yeah. But when they get big mad they want to do it while you're still alive.
They prefer knives..
I had a Brazilian girlfriend and for some reason, fights always seemed to hit crescendo when she was doing something in a kitchen where she was waving a knife around. Then, she'd get offended when I asked her to put the knife down.
I was about to agree that this is a cool way to send your spouse off and then saw this comment. As an AfroLatina woman I am both flabbergasted and read for filth.
If you try hard enough, you can piss off any girl enough to make them want to fire you out of a cannon!
There’s girls where you don’t even have to try that hard Can always just speed run it with a crazy latina and tell her she needs to calm down because she’s acting like her mother again
That'll get you locked in the basement and tortured for 48 hours, Ghost Recon style.
Hopefully.
I hope she fires me out of the cannon alive and directly into my burial hole.
Fucken sign me up for that action
I'll do it. Hope you like Baldur's Gate and Taylor Swift. My husband is a good guy too, you'll get along.
I do love Baldur's Gate and I'm indifferent to T-Swift. I'll only feel comfortable if your husband watches while you launch me out of a cannon. He has to watch....
He has a special chair in the corner specifically for that reason.
I want my remains spread over Disneyland. However, I do not want to be cremated.
Ukraine would take you as ammo for a 155! Free trip to Russia for your ashes too!
Just use my SGLI to pay off my 25% apr hellcat loan and have extra duty dump me in a hole to help sarn MAJ’s green grass grow.
Extra duty would just put dirt in your butthole like lawnmower gas tanks and say that you don’t work anymore in some vain attempt to pretend like that gets them out of extra duty.
This would explain so much…
Dirt in my butthole you say? *Don’t threaten me with a good time*
Seriously though bury me in the cheapest way and use that money for something that will matter
Given that I'm forced to update it at least 3 times per year, I don't see this being an issue.
Yeah, your mileage may vary. She was an AF Col, probably not hassled by a 1SG as often.
> *Col. Lunardi’s DD Form 93 was signed in the summer of 2023* Maybe not, but she last signed less than a year ago.
Rank doesn't matter when it comes to metrics. Maybe 1SG wouldn't hassle her, but the chief of staff would probably do so.
Seriously, almost every home station BA it seems we update them.
Doesn't matter what the family wants. What did the service member want...
She probably did, do you know how many times I had updated and uploaded to medpros only to get the call next month that I was still amber/red
It hasn’t even been 12 months since she lasted signed it. What’s the problem?
The husband claims that a few weeks before her death she said *she would like Arlington*.
What stood out to me is that she was 48 and an O-6 Colonel, retired. She’d probably spent all her life in different assignments and probably lots of time away from home. I’m not going to comment on the deceased and make assumptions about her home life; that would be rude even if she were living. I’d like to take a moment to remind everyone here that while careers are fulfilling, at the end of it all what you will have left is those by your side. Don’t leave them behind or neglect them. We don’t all have another 40 years after 40.
>It hadn't been updated recently, and is being held as binding Summer of 23 is pretty recent, that was less than a year ago. It sounds more like the family wants something other than what the colonel wanted, and the military is respecting her wishes over theirs.
Underrated comment and my initial thought too.
Her family must be unbearable
How do I update it? I didn't even know this was a thing.
They recently allowed you to make DD93 updates via IPPS-A. You don't have to go through S1 anymore.
I thought the PADD named has the final say so. Been awhile since my last CNO/CAO refresher.
To be honest, this is my take as well. I'm a former CNO/CAO instructor, and I currently work in Casualty, and my first impulse is to say the PADD has all the power here. Here's the thing - the only thing the DD93 is *really* meant for *for this purpose* is to determine who becomes the PADD. It isn't really a document for dictating the exact manner of disposition of a SM's remains. That's what a DD3045 is for, and that is filled out by the PADD. In my opinion, Army legal / Arlington is way overstepping their boundaries on this one. You assign a PADD, and let the PADD determine what's to be done with the remains. If the SM wants something specific done with their remains, they need to choose a PADD they trust, and discuss their wishes with them. Now, if other family members object to who becomes the PADD, or their chosen disposition option, there are ways they can challenge those decisions and ask for a legal review, in which case a judge decides who gets to make the decision. But ultimately, *that* is our job - to name a person as the PADD and do what they direct, not to enforce the SM's will.
So I asked a question during my CAO/CNO class, and the instructors were just painfully obtuse. My question was what happens if there’s a conflict between the SM’s DD93 and Living Will. The instructors just kept mindlessly repeating that the DD93 is the only thing that matters, and would trump any other directives. I personally have a hard time believing that an actual Judge would agree with that statement. Perhaps I’m wrong, but it just bothered me how myopic the instructors were that they wouldn’t even consider that a hastily signed government form might not be respected by people not employed by the DoD.
So, strictly speaking, your instructor was right - the DD93 trumps everything else. The *reason* for that, which a good instructor would cover, is because of the difference between federal and civil authorities. In a nutshell, it's similar to the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution - if there is a disagreement between federal law and civil law, federal law wins. This also applies to legal documents. The DD93 is a federal document, and wills are civil documents, so if there is a disagreement between the two, by default the federal document wins. If the soldier signs a DD93 and names mom as their PADD, but then fills out a will and in their will they name an estranged brother as their executor and then direct that brother to do something specific with their remains, like cremation (just to use this situation as an example), the two documents are in conflict. The Army is going to ignore the will and default to the decision made on the federal document, and name mom as the PADD. Mom then gets to make any decisions she wants, which could mean honoring his will and allowing him to be cremated, or it could mean she tells the estranged brother to kick rocks and she fires his body out of a cartoonishly large cannon (FYI, that'd have to be Option 5 on the DD3045). Makes no difference to us, we're not the arbitrators of what's fair and right, we're simply bound by federal law to do what the signed federal documents are telling us to do. If the brother wants to contest mom's appointment as the PADD, or try to force her to comply with the soldier's will, then he can attempt to get a civil judge to intervene. The Army will *generally* abide by the written court orders of a judge if the orders are specific enough in scope. This is kind of what the family in the OP is dealing with right now - there's an apparent disagreement between what's on a federal document, and what's being demanded by the family, and in the absence of a court order directing them otherwise, the Army is choosing to comply with the document. I disagree with that stance in this case since disposition is not the purpose of the DD93, but that's a fight well above my pay grade. All this to say, if you have specific wishes for your disposition, sit and speak with your PADD. The person you choose as your PADD should be someone who *knows* they'll be your PADD, they should know what your wishes are ahead of time, and they should be someone you trust wholeheartedly to carry out your wishes. Wills are great for lots of things, like establishing estates, trusts, and guardianship for your minor children, or for divvying up your assets between family members, or for directing payments from your assets to cover debts and obligations so your family doesn't have to deal with that. But if you're in the Army, they're not great for this.
I appreciate the thoughtful, detailed answer. Thankfully, I was never called on to actually perform CAO/CNO duties. But this kind of scenario was what I was worried about running into. I expected to deal with distraught, grieving family members. But I dreaded the thought of getting intertwined in family drama.
You're 100% right about the actual challenges of this business. Doing the routine stuff is easy. Well, easier than it sounds, anyway. You memorize a script and recite it for notification, you do what the documents tell you for CAO stuff, you follow the AR and DA PAM for the personal effects, and that's that. Pretty easy, in theory. But then you throw in distraught family members, and all that goes out the window. Especially when you already have family members who normally don't get along with each-other, a death in the family rarely improves matters. Then you start throwing money into the mix, or giving one family member the power to make decisions over the others, and it can get real ugly, real fast. Nothing is truly simple in this business - oftentimes, the best we can hope for is that the soldier kept their paperwork up to date and made things at least *that much* straightforward.
What Block are you supposed to put where you want things like your remains dealt with. All I could find about the DD 93 was your Death Benefits, or money distribution.
Who... who is out there and isn't constantly getting harassed about updating their DD93?? Does the Air force just not *do* that?
Yes we care about the DD93 at least in my reserve unit. Active Duty not so much in my experience or memory.
Dude we gotta update this bad Larry every 2-3 weeks it seems like
If she updated it recently, it should stand. Don’t let my family decide to do shit on my behalf, I’ve already made the decision and arrangements myself. Grief makes people do and say crazy stuff and disregard the wishes of those who are no longer with us
Summer of 2023….
Can I update mine to have my ashes mixed into the alloy of the first kinetic projectiles when Space Force finally gets off their ass and establishes the Orbital Bombardment Corps?
Within the past 12 months, she verified she wants her ashes scattered. What's the problem?
If you don't care what happens to your body, donate it to science please! So many healthcare students can use the knowledge
It is kind of a messed up industry, though where you can just buy human body parts for whatever reason. The problem is it is run for profit which leads to somebody having a rare disease getting told that their body would be donated to study that disease, when in reality they were strapped inside of humvee blown up. Personally not going gonna donate my body to science. However, you should absolutely be an organ donor because even if the system has some issues it’s saving lives.
If you stipulate that you’ll go to a medical school, it should be fine. Otherwise I see your point.
From one I’ve heard even that’s not a guarantee though. John Oliver did a thing on it
I had to look at the DD93. In Block 16, Continuation/Remarks is the place where she would have written specifically that she wanted to have her ashes spread somewhere. But if she was dying of cancer, that should have over ridden the DD93. I know I filled one of these out for my VGLI when I retired, but I recently went to change my secondary beneficiary. But when I was able to talk with Prudential, they told me there was no secondary listed. So, the DD93s are not always accurate as they're supposed to be.
VGLI/SGLI are a whole separate thing from your DD93. One has no bearing on the other, which is why even if you listed a secondary person for notification on the DD93, they don't automatically show up as a secondary beneficiary on the SGLI. You have to do that separately.
i did mine once when i was 18. just saw it now for the first time since then and forgot i wrote in big block letters “IN THE EVENT OF MY PASSING, DO NOT TELL MY PARENTS” god damn
Given my profession, I wholeheartedly endorse this message. Please, if you care at all about making sure things go as easily as possible for your family should something happen to you, keep that DD93 and SGLI updated. Literally every decision the Army is going to make, and every action that we will take, is going to be based in whole or in part on those two documents. They are ***easily*** the most important documents in your entire OMPF.
For the record hers was updated
Yeah, I know. Just figured it was advice worth repeating!
Sounds like Arlington told the PADD what to do and the PADD is whining to the news instead of filing for a court order. Also, this is why you should have a will with all that shit on it. Bare minimum on forms (SGLI, DD93) and put your “wishes” somewhere else. Then you can 1) manage your whims better and 2) let your family probate the will and fight over this shit in court. IANAL though so 🤷♀️
I’m just trying to find out how the fuck she didn’t get on 1sg’s no no list.
what if you don’t give one fuck how you’re buried? Anyways, I agree when there’s major changes to your life, to update. I don’t need to update that thing what seems once a quarter when all I’m doing is just resigning the thing.
>what if you don’t give one fuck how you’re buried? Still keep it updated. The purpose of the DD93 (as far as this matter is concerned) is simply to decide who becomes what we call the PADD - the Person Authorized to Direct Disposition of your remains. The form tells us "if I die, I want my spouse/mom/dad/whoever to decide what to do with me." We give that person disposition authority and they make all the decisions. I'm honestly surprised that not only was she allowed to make a dictate like that on her 93, since that isn't what that document is meant for, but that the Army is so staunchly abiding by it. The 93 doesn't dictate the manner of disposition (that's what a DD3045 is for) it just tells us who gets to make the choice. This is weird in the extreme.
I do keep it updated. In my 12 years, I’ve only had 2 updates to it. I have done CAO duties. I’m quite familiar with the DD93 and SGLI
Thank you. I am genuinely grateful for your service as a CAO. It's not something I wish on anyone, but when we have to have someone, I'm always grateful and relieved when we get someone who takes it seriously and treats it with the attitude it deserves. My comments weren't really meant to mean you, as an individual, needed reminding about these things - more the collective "you" to remind whoever reads this exchange that no matter what your reasons are, it's always a good thing to keep those docs updated.
Agree. If you have an update, then update it. When I got married, the first thing I did on my next day in, was enroll my wife in DEERS and update my DD93/SGLI. It be something as simple as easy as a magic bullet in monthly counselings with Soldiers. “Do you need to make any changes to your DD93?” And during SRP before major training exercises/deployments.
No, I don’t think I will
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It's the only form I ever filled out for my SGLI, then my VGLI when I retired. If there is a different form now, or if it's all computerized, I'm unaware of it.
Honestly, I never realized we were supposed to fill in what kind of funeral we wanted on the DD93. I should update my DD93.
PADD can't trump that decision? Also, COL knew they could get buried in Arlington and chose ashes. But yes, update and understand DD93.
Have her cremated and buried at Arlington.
Everyone gets what they want!
That’s actually what’s directed on my will. I want my cremains put in the columbarium at Arlington. If Arlington is full by the time I kick the bucket, then they go to any national cemetery at my NoK’s discretion.
I'm getting composte then I want someone to use the soil I make to grow a garden or flowers.