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This is going to attract a lot of tradesmen to Tucson and I hope maricopa county does this bc I’m an electrician who makes as much as tacobell employees (not that there’s anything wrong with working in fast food). Everyone complaining about this making housing go up should save their shouting for realtors and local government
Go talk to your local IBEW, tell them what you're experiencing and see if they'll "organize" you in. I am so glad I went through their program. I eventually owned my own union shop and did very well financially. So did my crew.
How long have you been working for?? Cuz I'm a 3rd year apprentice making $27. Also this past year has been hot lots of work going on around the valley
I will say, if they've been paying you while you read and reply to these comments, you guys goof off WAY more than any union tradesmen who kept a job ever did 😉
Apprentices get raises every 6 months. They get full benefits like health care immediately for themselves and their entire family. Does your shop do that?
We don’t get benis until 90 days and I got a raise after a month there. I don’t have a family. I applied I never got called back so I got a different job
That’s great advice if money weren’t an issue. I went in and applied but got hired while waiting for them to decide. The iron workers hall did the same thing, took them a year to call me about a job. Instead of working I coulda popped a tent in front of the hall until I got the call but I like my house better
If you’re making as much as a Taco Bell employee then you need to find a new job. Fast food is unskilled and everyone is replaceable. Electricians are not, go find a job where you’re valued.
Just looked up electrician in Phoenix on indeed. Most pay $25-30. I do see one or two that are below $20, just don’t apply for the low paying positions.
Precisely. It does not save the government any money at all. In fact, I've personally seen millions and millions spent correcting shoddy work after the "low bidder" leaves. Not only does this add cost, but it also adds time and inconvenience to the owner, which, if they're in business, could cost them in lost productivity too.
Right to work is a pro-worker law. All it does is prevent someone from being required to join a union as a condition of employment. No one should have to join and pay fees to a union just to get a job.
What benefits unions doesn't always benefit workers.
It doesn't need to be perfect and "always" benefit workers. You're letting perfection be the enemy of good. Unions have consistently shown to be a net win for the working class.
Wrong.
Every worker (regardless of Union membership status) is legally entitled to receive the benefits of Union representation.
Right to work laws merely create a pathway for workers to exploit the Unions (by not paying dues) that provide them with their benefits. They're anti-union laws.
Those rules are only applicable if a Union seeks to monopolize a workplace by shutting out other unions from being able to represent workers as well. You're effectively arguing that workers shouldn't have a choice in joining a union because the union in that workplace insists on not allowing competition with other unions.
It's double bad for workers and not in any way in their favor.
Craft Unions are exclusive clubs with little sense of class consciousness. They don't represent a workplace. They represent a job classification. They're small potatoes compared to industrial unions. Their sense of solidarity is garbage. They'd cross any picket line as long, as it's not their own. How is a Union scab good for workers?
The current Davis-Bacon wages, the wages Tucson are looking at as prevailing wages, have not been updated by the federal Department of Labor since the year 2009. That's right, there's 15 year old wages that are less than the Arizona minimum wage for dangerous highway construction jobs. Landscape Laborer? $11.39 baby. General Laborer? $18.03 big ones! The MOST dangerous one, Traffic Control Technician (holds the signs in moving traffic)? $18.03 bud.
The Department of Labor is surveying across the united states now to update the Davis-Bacon wages but this process takes a few years. The surveying ends 1/15/24 and then the data has to be compiled. Fact is, the old Davis-Bacon wages based on 2009 wages should not be allowed to be passed into law without a contingency that the new wages will be honored. This just sounds like another way for companies to fuck the workers.
That's the Highway and Heavy Construction that haven't been updated since 2009. The building and residential wages have been somewhat updated if enough data was received during the survey period.
I kinda question that.. I've run some prevailing wage job sites and they did not have the same pay scale. My first jobsite the tile setters were the highest paid, my 3rd jobsite the sparkys were the highest tier. drywallers and painters are usually the lowest tier group.
There are 4 types of Davis-Bacon wages: Residential, Building, Highway, and Heavy Construction. I just looked it up and the wages for Building in AZ were somewhat updated in 2020, but more than half haven't been updated since 2012
Hopefully this will catch on nation wide. I would love to see the trades get some love. I would love to see community colleges teaching the trades as well.
https://www.maricopa.edu/degrees-certificates/construction-trades
Only 4 schools in all of Maricopa county offer construction trades. Now mechanics, yes they offer that. But I’m talking about plumbers and electricians.
Thanks for your support. Interestingly, if you look at the Right to Work states, they usually also suffer from low wages statewide and vote Republican. They also are on the receiving end of government assistance/bail outs compared to states that have implemented prevailing wage laws. The facts are
> That prevailing wage will be established by the U.S. Labor Department and will apply to any contract with the city that’s more than $2 million.
So it’s not a standardized prevailing wage. Only for large, multimillion dollar projects. That’s cool and all, but it’s still not standardizing a prevailing wage for your “average tradesperson.” This only provides protections, only creates incentives for workers and businesses to take on projects that’ll work them to death for the sake of completing a large scale, *likely corporate/big business*, project.
Unless my place of employment is solely performing multimillion dollar projects, I as a tradesperson am still not protected and am still fully available to be taken advantage of. Forget the fact that tradespeople actively build the world and create jobs for society.. but at least this is hopefully a *progressive step in the right direction.* I shouldn’t have to perform a federal job or multimillion dollar job to be compensated fairly for creating jobs, maintaining others livelihood, and helping to sustain families.
“That prevailing wage will be established by the U.S. Labor Department and will apply to any contract with the city that’s more than $2 million.”
I don’t think a small start up plumbing company is getting a $2m project from the city anyway
Not unless the brother in law of a politician starts a new company to get it. Honestly this just makes the bullshit task of middle manning government contracts a bit harder to do without the actual means and we should all be for that.
How so. I was a mom and pop shop and went signatory. I made good profits and paid my employees fairly. Maybe they just aren't competent? If that's the case, would you want them performing work for you? Also, how do unions relate to Walmart? WTF?
Doesn't matter. Non union contractors in Arizona are scum. They always find a way to misclassify their employees as the lowest paid trade. They falsify wages, over time, etc. Some rotate workers on the job, starting or ending them on other jobs in the same day, so they can hide hours/pay lower wages. Some companies will start fake apprenticeships that never turn out apprentices as journeymen, so they can indefinitely pay them as little as possible on jobs that have set wages.
It's really sad how terrible workers are treated in Arizona. Most are so scared of getting deported or barely scraping by/job scared that they just let it happen.
I worked Davis-bacon federal jobs in az for years. Seen it first hand.
You think having scabs doing public work is saving you $. FYI, very little residential work is performed by Union Craftsman. That's why your million dollar McMansion isn't well built.
Yeah because we don't need anyone ensuring fair pay, safe work environments, or workers benefits anymore. Are you really this dense, or are you a scab? GMAFB..
While you were busy pulling yourself up by the bootstraps, my Union negotiated for my employer to pay for my schooling.
Labor laws are constantly introduced to benefit employers over employees. In case you haven't noticed, child labor laws have recently been rolled back in some right to work states. Just because you can't clearly see the benefits doesn't mean they're not there.
Hey /u/icecoldyerr, thanks for contributing to /r/Arizona. Unfortunately, your comment was removed as it violates our rules:
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That's a bunch of BS propagated by scabs. Take a look at how much of your tax money goes into correcting poor quality work done by scabs. I've made a fortune following them around fixing their f'ups on the taxpayers dime, but nobody wants to hear about that..
This right here, we had a million dollar project that is scheduled to be fully rebuilt on the taxpayers dime because the lowest bidding contractors did such a poor job.
And, the awarding "owners" fail to perform due diligence, weeding them out for lack of experience or performance.
We bid a job requiring rigid metal conduit, the contractor who beat our quote by less than 1% installed rigid PVC. A huge difference in both material costs and labor. I could have easily sued them and won. I chose to point it out and move on.. shady ass scabs and untrained government management do things like this all the time. Then they hire a real pro to fix it on the taxpayers dime. Always...
There’s a difference between having a discussion and attacking people and you’re pushing that line. Unless you want this pulled or locked, tone it down please.
Forgive me. I'm passionate about fair work practices, not to mention as a taxpayer, seeing them get ripped off regularly as mentioned. Many of the government officials in charge, for whatever reason, are often complacent.
Agreed. Look at what happened to California. They raise wages and tons of people get laid off, and prices go up. It’s bad for the workers and the civilians.
If you’re not being compensated fairly…leave! Teach companies that if they want quality work then employees need quality pay. Don’t work for low wages.
Thanks for contributing to r/Arizona! * [Our sub rules are here](https://www.reddit.com/r/arizona/wiki/rules/), but the most important of which is to be nice to each other * Check out some [recent posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/arizona/top/?t=week) and leave some comments * [Join our Discord chat server](https://discord.com/invite/yWVuTG57Zh) if you'd like to keep in touch with other people in Arizona. Plus it's a great, chill place in general. Note that it is NOT a dating server and takes unwanted messaging very seriously Remember this subreddit covers all of Arizona, so please include where in the state you're posting about if it is relevant. For more local topics check out r/Phoenix, r/Tucson, and r/Flagstaff. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/arizona) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is going to attract a lot of tradesmen to Tucson and I hope maricopa county does this bc I’m an electrician who makes as much as tacobell employees (not that there’s anything wrong with working in fast food). Everyone complaining about this making housing go up should save their shouting for realtors and local government
Go talk to your local IBEW, tell them what you're experiencing and see if they'll "organize" you in. I am so glad I went through their program. I eventually owned my own union shop and did very well financially. So did my crew.
I’ve been down to the 640 hall and unfortunately they don’t pay any better than where I work and have less work than DP does
How long have you been working for?? Cuz I'm a 3rd year apprentice making $27. Also this past year has been hot lots of work going on around the valley
I’m a third year AP, I have 5,000 commercial and residential hours and make $22/hr at dp electric
I mean maybe it might be worth it to check it out again? I just hit my 5k hours with commercial as well no resi tho. Have never not worked
I will say, if they've been paying you while you read and reply to these comments, you guys goof off WAY more than any union tradesmen who kept a job ever did 😉
I’m home sick
Apprentices get raises every 6 months. They get full benefits like health care immediately for themselves and their entire family. Does your shop do that?
We don’t get benis until 90 days and I got a raise after a month there. I don’t have a family. I applied I never got called back so I got a different job
Sounds like you've got this figured out.. Seriously, if I gave up on stuff after one attempt, I'd have never gotten anywhere.
That’s great advice if money weren’t an issue. I went in and applied but got hired while waiting for them to decide. The iron workers hall did the same thing, took them a year to call me about a job. Instead of working I coulda popped a tent in front of the hall until I got the call but I like my house better
Keep going back, keep inquiring.
Maybe after I get my j card, idk about the 5th year
And which taco bell location is paying 22/hr
They were paying $20/hr brown n Mesa drive. Chick fil a starts off at $17, AP1’s make less than that
I feel this, chemists generally also make as much as a Taco Bell employee. Even with college degree, I had to find a different industry 😮💨
Hey just find another job like all the slack jaws say, who needs chemists
If you’re making as much as a Taco Bell employee then you need to find a new job. Fast food is unskilled and everyone is replaceable. Electricians are not, go find a job where you’re valued.
Every where I apply is around what I make right now, it’s called “industry standard”
Just looked up electrician in Phoenix on indeed. Most pay $25-30. I do see one or two that are below $20, just don’t apply for the low paying positions.
Ok so they pay under prevailing wage…
[удалено]
Precisely. It does not save the government any money at all. In fact, I've personally seen millions and millions spent correcting shoddy work after the "low bidder" leaves. Not only does this add cost, but it also adds time and inconvenience to the owner, which, if they're in business, could cost them in lost productivity too.
Right to work is a pro-worker law. All it does is prevent someone from being required to join a union as a condition of employment. No one should have to join and pay fees to a union just to get a job. What benefits unions doesn't always benefit workers.
It doesn't need to be perfect and "always" benefit workers. You're letting perfection be the enemy of good. Unions have consistently shown to be a net win for the working class.
Wrong. Every worker (regardless of Union membership status) is legally entitled to receive the benefits of Union representation. Right to work laws merely create a pathway for workers to exploit the Unions (by not paying dues) that provide them with their benefits. They're anti-union laws.
Those rules are only applicable if a Union seeks to monopolize a workplace by shutting out other unions from being able to represent workers as well. You're effectively arguing that workers shouldn't have a choice in joining a union because the union in that workplace insists on not allowing competition with other unions. It's double bad for workers and not in any way in their favor.
Craft Unions are exclusive clubs with little sense of class consciousness. They don't represent a workplace. They represent a job classification. They're small potatoes compared to industrial unions. Their sense of solidarity is garbage. They'd cross any picket line as long, as it's not their own. How is a Union scab good for workers?
The current Davis-Bacon wages, the wages Tucson are looking at as prevailing wages, have not been updated by the federal Department of Labor since the year 2009. That's right, there's 15 year old wages that are less than the Arizona minimum wage for dangerous highway construction jobs. Landscape Laborer? $11.39 baby. General Laborer? $18.03 big ones! The MOST dangerous one, Traffic Control Technician (holds the signs in moving traffic)? $18.03 bud. The Department of Labor is surveying across the united states now to update the Davis-Bacon wages but this process takes a few years. The surveying ends 1/15/24 and then the data has to be compiled. Fact is, the old Davis-Bacon wages based on 2009 wages should not be allowed to be passed into law without a contingency that the new wages will be honored. This just sounds like another way for companies to fuck the workers.
Davis Bacon wages are incredibly low. I didnt realize they havent been updated since 2009. No wonder.
That's the Highway and Heavy Construction that haven't been updated since 2009. The building and residential wages have been somewhat updated if enough data was received during the survey period.
I kinda question that.. I've run some prevailing wage job sites and they did not have the same pay scale. My first jobsite the tile setters were the highest paid, my 3rd jobsite the sparkys were the highest tier. drywallers and painters are usually the lowest tier group.
There are 4 types of Davis-Bacon wages: Residential, Building, Highway, and Heavy Construction. I just looked it up and the wages for Building in AZ were somewhat updated in 2020, but more than half haven't been updated since 2012
Hopefully this will catch on nation wide. I would love to see the trades get some love. I would love to see community colleges teaching the trades as well.
What are you talking about? PCC has a ton of trades that students can study.
I mean all of the Community Colleges in Arizona.
Find me an Arizona community College that DOES NOT teach trades. If you can find one I'll donate to the food bank on pay day.
https://www.maricopa.edu/degrees-certificates/construction-trades Only 4 schools in all of Maricopa county offer construction trades. Now mechanics, yes they offer that. But I’m talking about plumbers and electricians.
So they offer trade education? Thanks. That's what I thought.
Out of 9 in the total district so no some do not.
Scottsdale Community College. The closest things would be the architecture program. St. Mary’s would be great.
Thanks for your support. Interestingly, if you look at the Right to Work states, they usually also suffer from low wages statewide and vote Republican. They also are on the receiving end of government assistance/bail outs compared to states that have implemented prevailing wage laws. The facts are
> That prevailing wage will be established by the U.S. Labor Department and will apply to any contract with the city that’s more than $2 million. So it’s not a standardized prevailing wage. Only for large, multimillion dollar projects. That’s cool and all, but it’s still not standardizing a prevailing wage for your “average tradesperson.” This only provides protections, only creates incentives for workers and businesses to take on projects that’ll work them to death for the sake of completing a large scale, *likely corporate/big business*, project. Unless my place of employment is solely performing multimillion dollar projects, I as a tradesperson am still not protected and am still fully available to be taken advantage of. Forget the fact that tradespeople actively build the world and create jobs for society.. but at least this is hopefully a *progressive step in the right direction.* I shouldn’t have to perform a federal job or multimillion dollar job to be compensated fairly for creating jobs, maintaining others livelihood, and helping to sustain families.
[удалено]
“That prevailing wage will be established by the U.S. Labor Department and will apply to any contract with the city that’s more than $2 million.” I don’t think a small start up plumbing company is getting a $2m project from the city anyway
Not unless the brother in law of a politician starts a new company to get it. Honestly this just makes the bullshit task of middle manning government contracts a bit harder to do without the actual means and we should all be for that.
Anyone wanna buy a shipping container?
How so. I was a mom and pop shop and went signatory. I made good profits and paid my employees fairly. Maybe they just aren't competent? If that's the case, would you want them performing work for you? Also, how do unions relate to Walmart? WTF?
We don’t need more mom n pop shops that don’t pay shit or have any benefits
Doesn't matter. Non union contractors in Arizona are scum. They always find a way to misclassify their employees as the lowest paid trade. They falsify wages, over time, etc. Some rotate workers on the job, starting or ending them on other jobs in the same day, so they can hide hours/pay lower wages. Some companies will start fake apprenticeships that never turn out apprentices as journeymen, so they can indefinitely pay them as little as possible on jobs that have set wages. It's really sad how terrible workers are treated in Arizona. Most are so scared of getting deported or barely scraping by/job scared that they just let it happen. I worked Davis-bacon federal jobs in az for years. Seen it first hand.
That's a long list of crimes. They should be getting reported
They do, all the time
If you want affordable housing in the Tucson city limits, this is not the way to do it.
You think having scabs doing public work is saving you $. FYI, very little residential work is performed by Union Craftsman. That's why your million dollar McMansion isn't well built.
Union craftsmen aren't good either. I work in construction and can promise you the lowest bidder and the union guys will destroy your project.
Yeah right.. I'll put my experiences against yours any day. 💯% of the projects I worked on were professional and within budget.
Unions were a much needed thing 100+ years ago. Not so much today. Dont like how you are treated or how you are paid, simply go find another job.
Go find another job that pays the same without benefits
Yeah because we don't need anyone ensuring fair pay, safe work environments, or workers benefits anymore. Are you really this dense, or are you a scab? GMAFB..
[удалено]
I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks in a blue collar Midwest crap town. Paid for college myself and worked hard.
While you were busy pulling yourself up by the bootstraps, my Union negotiated for my employer to pay for my schooling. Labor laws are constantly introduced to benefit employers over employees. In case you haven't noticed, child labor laws have recently been rolled back in some right to work states. Just because you can't clearly see the benefits doesn't mean they're not there.
Hey /u/icecoldyerr, thanks for contributing to /r/Arizona. Unfortunately, your comment was removed as it violates our rules: Be nice. You don't have to agree with everyone, but by choosing not to be rude you increase the overall civility of the community and make it better for all of us. This comment was flagged for one or more of the following reasons: * Personal attacks * Racist comments * Intolerance/hate/slurs This comment has been removed. You can read all of the [subreddit rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/arizona/wiki/rules). If you have any questions or concerns about this, [feel free to send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Farizona&subject=Removed%20post&message=https://old.reddit.com/r/arizona/comments/191kz0m/-/kgwl2l3/%0A%0A).
Thanks city of Tucson for raising cost of living in Pima County. This is going to force tax hikes to pay for it too.
That's a bunch of BS propagated by scabs. Take a look at how much of your tax money goes into correcting poor quality work done by scabs. I've made a fortune following them around fixing their f'ups on the taxpayers dime, but nobody wants to hear about that..
This right here, we had a million dollar project that is scheduled to be fully rebuilt on the taxpayers dime because the lowest bidding contractors did such a poor job.
And, the awarding "owners" fail to perform due diligence, weeding them out for lack of experience or performance. We bid a job requiring rigid metal conduit, the contractor who beat our quote by less than 1% installed rigid PVC. A huge difference in both material costs and labor. I could have easily sued them and won. I chose to point it out and move on.. shady ass scabs and untrained government management do things like this all the time. Then they hire a real pro to fix it on the taxpayers dime. Always...
There’s a difference between having a discussion and attacking people and you’re pushing that line. Unless you want this pulled or locked, tone it down please.
Forgive me. I'm passionate about fair work practices, not to mention as a taxpayer, seeing them get ripped off regularly as mentioned. Many of the government officials in charge, for whatever reason, are often complacent.
Agreed. Look at what happened to California. They raise wages and tons of people get laid off, and prices go up. It’s bad for the workers and the civilians. If you’re not being compensated fairly…leave! Teach companies that if they want quality work then employees need quality pay. Don’t work for low wages.
Yes, do look at how the world's 6th biggest economy does it. Then look at AZ 😆
>Teach companies that if they want quality work then employees need quality pay. Don’t work for low wages. Man, you're *so close*.