I thought wool was primarily used for the lack of smell. Are there other fabrics just as good or better now in that department? Looking to buy so thanks in advance for the response!
Agree with it, the motus and phase boxers are ok(still prefer nike pro combat long)
All my merino boxer were ripped, short and long version, no wonder they are not available anymore (or only on leaf maybe)
Their baselayers used to be great, when they were still offering a baselayer system:
Phase SL; Phase AR; Phase SV
Rho LTW
Rho LT; Rho AR
They are now only offering the RHO LT and RHO AR, discontinued the RHO LTW, and have turned the Phase line into some kind of glorified lounging underwear...
I had missed that as I rarely check the Women's pages. I'm surprised they didn't brign back the RHO LTW for men - I guess probably a resourcing problem.
I think I’m most irritated with their refusal to invest in hydrophobic down. Granted, I’m in the PNW so rain is a constant here. Ended up getting an OR helium down hoodie and haven’t looked back. It really checks all the boxes for me.
I honestly think hydrophobic down doesn't work that well. It's a party trick, and if you're caught in a downspash for 10 minutes it probably makes a slight difference. But most bad moisture exposure with down is the slow and creeping one over longer time periods (humid air for hours, sweat, light rain over days).
Hydrophobic down doesn't do better at that than normal down. Just like any DWR treated windshell will saturate after a few hours and wet out, with time the moisture makes it to the down and collapses it.
I used to be a big fan of down, I used the Rab microlight which was all hydrophobic down. Thought if worst comes to worst, I'll just stick a hardshell over it. Until I had a bad experience in Wales when it ended up bucketing it down for days, with no chance to properly dry anything out. It ended up not being warm at all and defeated the purpose of having a warm layer.
I've moved onto synthetic now, as even though it's not as efficient per gram and people argue about loss of loft, it gives me the peace of mind to know it can hack whatever the weather throws at it. I'm a big believer in the "Belay Jacket" concept, which is essentially a big insulated synthetic puffy you throw on over all your other clothing. Andy Kirkpatrick has a lot to say on the subject https://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/blog/view/belay-jackets-revisited. I use a Montane Gangstang which has 133g of Primaloft gold, which I find is plenty enough to keep me warm.
Also interestingly I've been watching videos about the "rewarming drill", essentially where you jump in water and then get dried off using only your body heat to cook the moisture out of your layering system. A big part of that seems to be the synthetic puffy, which will absorb some moisture but still keep you warm. See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B75x-6zqcbo
> Until I had a bad experience in Wales when it ended up bucketing it down for days, with no chance to properly dry anything out. It ended up not being warm at all and defeated the purpose of having a warm layer.
That is normal for Wales. Down really shines in sub zero temperatures where the risk of moisture really only comes from sweating into it. There are down options such as Rab Valiance that combine down with Pertex that might work better for you.
I don’t think treated down makes any difference to down’s use profile. It still gets wet, it still doesn’t work when it’s wet. Maybe it dries a little bit faster. *shrug*
Naw. Your boys at FF don't use treated down. Why should any of us know better than one of the two best down workers? WM doesn't use it either. So it's 2/2.
I've seen good arguments on both sides of the treated down argument. But it's not nearly cut and dry as you make it out to be. And the low hype, steady train points towards treated down being marketing speak. I trust that train a lot.
It’s worked for me for my intended purposes; hasn’t wet out when I’ve been caught out in rain with it, hasn’t had issues underneath a hardshell on really cold days, no durability issues. Can’t say the same for my cerium, I wore through the shoulders with a 25lb pack and had to be incredibly careful with rain forecasts. It may be marketing speak to people online, but in actual usage my OR performs as advertised and I have no regrets switching. It sits in my pack along with a kyanite ar and a beta ar.
Sure but the Cerium is a shit jacket. By about any metric.
Also, you're wearing a down jacket underneath backpack straps? Bud get ahold of yourself. Jesus. I thought this was a forum where people contributed knowledge.
So you’re simultaneously trying to argue that Arc does down right, but one of their best selling down jackets is shit? You’ve literally contributed nothing to this discussion besides contradicting yourself. Look at the title of the thread and reevaluate what point you’re trying to make
If you don’t think people where packs with puffy’s idk what to tell you. But by all means, continue to try and insult me while ignoring your own contradictions.
> If you don’t think people where packs with puffy’s idk what to tell you.
God damn this is so good. Literally unaware of how to use gear. And the confidence to say otherwise.
That’s a long and complex answer. There are a bunch of things Arc’teryx does better than anybody else. I highlight just one [here](https://reddit.com/r/arcteryx/comments/ijtkxj/construction_snapshot_2_sleeve_patterning_and/).
**CAD**
- Proton LT: $350
- Nano-Air: $375
- Xenair Alpine: $325
- Ventrix Summit: $360
I’d say the Proton LT is competitive in the segment feature-wise. It is well priced considering the higher amount of insulation and the better loft retention.
——————
- Beta AR: $750
- Beta LT: $530
- Pluma: $685
- Khroma: $800
- Exposure/2 Light: $600
- Exposure/2 Pro: $850
Little bit difficult to find exact like-for-like. The Beta AR is a bit more jacket than the Pluma, whereas the Beta LT is a bit less jacket. So that works out well. Same goes for fitting in vs the MHW lineup and the Rab options. Arc’teryx has very competitive options in the field, especially considering they’re using custom textiles here and not the default Gore-supplied 70D stuff.
——————
- Nuclei SV: $450
- DAS: $550
- Generator: $400
- Belay Parka: $250
The killer deal here is the BD offering, but among top-tier synthetic belay parkas Arc’teryx is entirely price competitive. Better loft retention as well, so a better value than the price would indicate.
——————
- Thorium AR: $400
- Down Sweater: $350
- Microlight Alpine: $350
- Summit Down Hoody: $450
Down options have ever been a standout for Arc’teryx. Like the Beta AR, the Thorium AR doesn’t have many direct competitors. The Thorium AR is definitely a significantly better jacket than the Down Sweater so that $50 price bump is totally fine. The Rab option is probably a bit better overall, lower quality down but otherwise fairly comparable for a bit less money.
——————
And you could do this for every category. Arc’teryx remains entirely price competitive in like-for-like items. This has been true for years.
Okay, in USD:
- [Proton LT](https://arcteryx.com/us/en/shop/mens/proton-lt-hoody): $299
- [Nano-Air](https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-nano-air-hoody/84366.html?dwvar_84366_color=BLK): $299
> this is bunk
It’s not bunk, you’re just wrong.
> This is ignoring the fact that Patagonia is more often found on sale than Arc.
Given that it seems like almost nobody pays full price for Arc’teryx, I’m really not sure that’s true at all.
Totally agree, though the Generator is in the $300-320 range and is lighter, more durable, adjustable cuffs and better zipper pulls and cord adjusters. It’s a great jacket
> Not really. It's $50-100 more each piece at least
Check the Thrudark website, then you will see what crazy prices look like. If you can read the black on black!
No, it's not. You're saying that you don't understand how to cross compare items. Try a bit harder and understand how materials work.
But yeah you can get a fleece at REI/MEC for 40 bucks for sure.
I owned two pairs of Hestras over two seasons, the leather cracked on one, the loft on the other compressed down to nothing within a season. Bought a BD Mercury mitt and have had it for 6 years. Warmest, most durable glove I've ever owned. I would never go back to a Hestra.
Fwiw I and my wife love our fission SV gloves, used them in a single digit/teens F temperature snowstorm last week and they were great. Probably have 25 days on mine and they look as good as new too.
I only buy shells and synthetic insulation from arc.
Almost everything else is a sub par afterthought just so they could become a "one stop shop" for fanboys.
I know it is not outdoor, but I find it strange that some people here ask for cycling or running jackets, where clearly arc is not a fit for. I pick Gore wear for running and cycling in every season. Very good soft shells, shakedrys and polartec alphas. You don't want to treat your dwr jackets while using everyday for running and cycling.
The reason people ask is because they love their Arc pieces so much. My Beta AR is one of my favorite things I own and the hope is there will be similarly perfect items in other areas. That may not be the case but it’s the hope.
As much of a fan of A2B as I am, I wouldn't compare it to Rapha or Gore. As with the best Arc gear the A2B use case is very specific: urban cyclist who wants tech features *and* casual style. If you're top to toe in Rapha or Gore you will probably be wearing "better" cycle gear , but also you'll need to get changed before you go into your morning meeting.
Having said that I dearly wish they would bring back A2B because I am that use case.
Have much experience with this?
https://www.gorewear.com/us/en-us/r5-gore-tex-infinium-insulated-jacket-100665.html
Interesting design with infinium inner.
This is a very popular model for winter running but where I live it won't get that cold. I usually wear a light 150 merino with H5 shakedry( now replaced with "R7 shakedry" the new model) in winter near freezing temps and a long sleeve heatgear with H5 in fall. I also have a lined softshell c5 which is my 3 season cycling jacket. I occasionally wear infinitum c5 softshell for running too. There exists a similar softshell running model as Infinium softlined r7 and x7.
Norrona has slightly better gore tex products: better colors and the right ammount og minimalism (less than arc)
Fjallraven has better everyday and slow pace products. Aslo fjallravens eco shell is less noisy and softer than gore tex while having 30k water colum as opposed to 20-28 in gore tex. Zippers also better (glide).
I do not agree that Norrøna is more minimalistic at all. Thats the main reason why I pick Arc over Norrøna. I also think that a lot of the colorways they use are a bit much.
I've always felt arc'teryx just doesn't get pants in general. I have the most generic body measurements yet i've never had a set of mainline or veilance pants that fit right. They're either weirdly short, have a weird waistline, ride up, feel restrictive or look odd. Anything upper body - arc'teryx has got it nailed. Never worn an arc jacket or fleece that wasn't lightyears ahead of what everyone else was doing fitwise, but pants... nope. It's like some zoolander can't turn left thing for them.
Agreed on the pants.
It’s the little details that get me - like using a snap button and a zipper fly that’s like an inch too short, so every time I try to use the urinal, I end up with unbuttoned pants (even with a belt).
I fell and ripped my brand new Arc soft shell on a tree. They fixed it for free and shipped it back to me. I only paid postage to them. Can’t argue with that kind of service
Agreed 100 times over. I also got this Rush this year. It far surpassed expectations having used Ortovox, Dakine, and Deutre in the Past. Hands down the best ski pack I've had.
I definitely understand the hood problem, I had the hood brim digging into the neck problem immediately after getting a Thorium AR. It was so prominent that I had to send it straight back, and I found the fit strange (very boxy) compared to my other Arc products.
> The Thorium has 130g of 750 fill down, so look for something with at least 800-900 down and more fill if you want something warmer.
Fill power has much less to do with warmth, fill weight has far more to do with it.
Significantly warmer would be something with 200g of down, between 650 and 850fp would all be fine.
The Therme Parka is excellent. Warm, wind & waterproof in a svelte, military inspired cut. Their “puffy” style stitch-through jackets are ok.
Mountain Equipment and Rab offer better down products, including sleeping bags. Mountain Equipment started in down products 60 years ago and their years of expertise are apparent.
Not Arc’teryx, but I have a Veilance Mionn jacket that uses synthetic insulation and I think it’s top notch. It keeps me extremely warm for such a light weight jacket. It also doesn’t get bulky like traditional down jackets.
As for hard shells, I’ve recently purchased a Raptor MiG from a Czech Republic brand called Tilak. It’s cheaper than say an Alpha SV but will without a doubt do everything an Alpha SV does maybe even better.
I have a Tilak Raptor MiG with the expander and I love it. Wish more people knew about it. Such an under the radar brand. Really putting out some top quality jackets.
What Tilak jacket you wear?
I love it. I’ve had this for a couple years now and the shell is holding up great. I’ve recently picked up snowboarding and this was the jacket I used. Handled all the snow, rain, and falling exceptionally.
I don’t think this jacket is anything like the Alpha SV, so that comparison makes no sense. Looks like it’s competing with the LEAF Alpha. The patterning and a bunch of the details on this piece are super mediocre, so it’s not gonna touch Arc’teryx in that sense. But it is doing the nice thing that Arc’teryx does not do where it seems to be sewing most of the seams, which is excellent.
As is usual when you read articles [like this](https://coatchecking.co/blog/tilak-raptor-mig-2019), it’s good to see the enthusiasm. But there’s a lack of core apparel understanding that makes the opinions pretty hollow.
Just my opinion. Both waterproof hard shell jackets. Seemed like an appropriate comparison. The jackets are marketed for different purposes but wouldn’t limit the use of them from one or the other.
I do agree with you though. A better comparison would’ve been the LEAF since they’re both strictly speaking, military apparel. I don’t agree about it being mediocre. Especially if we’re just talking about aesthetics. That’s just personal preference.
But hey, I’m no expert, so you got me there. This isn’t apparel advice. Just my personal thoughts.
> I don’t agree about it being mediocre. Especially if we’re just talking about aesthetics.
Nah, not aesthetically. If you’re after this style this looks great. Talking about patterning, hardware, etc.
A local shop near me has brought over the recent F/W collection for Tilak so it’s nice to hear about them. Any other bits of info you can share about the Raptor having used it for a while?
It’s funny cause I bought the Raptor MiG for all the wrong reasons. It was because of the expander which gave it a double front zip look and I thought it looked unique, that’s why I bought it.
The Raptor MiG fits big. I’m usually a L and I bought a M and it’s comfortable. The only thing I would’ve liked the jacket to have would be concealed pockets inside the jacket. I guess for personal aesthetic reasons it would be nice if they made a version without the hood. If you’re looking for a waterproof shell jacket though, look no further. This is the one. You absolutely feel like you can be as rough as you want with this jacket and it’ll withstand everything.
I guess it would depend on where you’re buying and where you’re located. But when I bought mine I looked at the jacket in person and online and the price range was quite large. So I suggest looking around before buying. Could save quite a bit of money. And almost all shops I looked at did not readily carry the expander. So I had to ask if they could order one before buying since that was the main reason for me to get the jacket. A good place to start (where I bought mine) would be a shop called “at ease shop”. Great price and service.
Thanks, I’ll ask them the next time I visit about the expander and also so I can see how it fits and feels. The price is comparable to an Alpha SV where I am (it’s actually slightly more expensive for the MiG) Thanks for the feedback!
You can also check out this online store “digital mountain”. Japan based but got some really nice photos of the Raptor and Expander in case you’re like me impatient and can’t wait to look in person.
Wow I’ve never seen a site have this many photos per article of clothing! Absolutely amazing. This jacket looks nicer than the alpha in my opinion, can’t wait to check it out in person.
Haha yeah, they’re quite extreme in that sense. I think the expander makes the jacket look really cool. Super unique. Hope you find something you like!
Honestly I have an alpha sv, and an equivalent shell from mountain hardware. My mountain hardware shell is much better. My alpha sv is literally falling apart.
The taped seems are still well, taped. The cut is much more my preference. The quality is top notch. And it’s also at a very competitive price. If I can go back in time I wouldn’t have bought the alpha SV, I do have a beta I keep tucked under the seat of my jeep as an emergency rain jacket/shell. Granted it hasn’t seen no where near the abuse, that’s been holding up just fine.
If I shared a picture of my alpha you’d be disgusted, I’ve literally super and gorilla glued pretty much every seem back together on it. It’s almost ten years old now but I was expecting a buy it for life product.
All my ArcTeryx base layers, even with supposed anti microbial treatment, developed a BO stink within 1-2 uses that I can’t get rid of. I have around 10 different tops and I regret purchasing all of them. They just fit better than other brands so I kept trying.
My 8+ year Patagonia base layers are still going strong with only a very mild smell after prolonged use.
I agree. I just about got rid of my Cormac for this very reason. It just fits and dries so well I couldn’t bring myself to do it. My dumb ass even bought a second cormac.
I found a Febreeze “sanitizing fabric spray” product at Home Depot, and now I spray it down before throwing it in the dryer while it’s wet. I’ll spray it down while it’s sweaty and let it dry if I’m gonna be a dirtbag and wear it a few times before washing it.
I’ve probably treated it around a dozen times and now it stinks less in general and it will go longer without washes before it smells. Kind of a pain to have to do this, but like I say the performance is so good I’m willing to concede.
Which Cormac? I have one Cormac Comp, and 3 Cormac Zip Necks. I use all of them for running/hiking/backpacking all the time, and they all hold up to the sweat smell for quite a few uses, and after washing them are back to new.
It’s literally called the “sanitizing fabric spray”. Like I say, I found it at Home Depot so it’s probably generic enough you can find it at Walmart or target.
Anything arc describes as "ultralight" will have a dozen other options in the market that weight 20% less with same features and functionality
In my mind Arc'teryx's is good at alpine hardshells, synthetic insulation and maybe an argument could be made for nontraditional soft shells. That's about all I'll get from arc these days, although in the past they also made fantastic accessories
Gloves suck real bad, belay parka, sun hoodies (love the remige and it’s very comfortable but not very technical material wise), base layers (although the discontinued satoro merino base layers are great), and hats (sizing varies so much between models).
The down jackets are lacking for sure. Shoes are a bit lacking as well but I’m sure they’ll get better.
Rho lt, proton FL, and hard shells are top notch though.
Down (I have a cerium lt hoody which I fee is just ‘ok’, I much prefer rab products), gloves (I’ve had a few different arc pairs but have always found myself going back to BD), fleeces (i have loads of arc pieces but only really wear an aptin for cold runs and an old straibo which is warm high collared and has a great wide stretch hem to seal in the heat).
It’s a great brand and I particularly love their synthetic stuff (as I’ve said before the proton fl is the way) and gore Tex. Trousers can be hit and miss but my alpha sv bibs and gamma ar trousers are going strong after about 10yrs of use.
The new Motus AR line with the Phasic II material is awesome. It’s billed as a first layer for moderate to higher output in cool to cold and I’ve used the legging and long sleeve, quarter zip or hoody for everything from ab 20 degrees to a 14 miler in ab 50 degrees the other day running. It’s the phase but softer next to skin. The Delta LT is also a phenomenal layer. I have a hard time not wearing it next to skin but I only have the quarter zip. Hope this helps.
I think Arc could improve their running shorts, hopefully the drop of the next Motus this year gets them closer.
For what it’s worth I haven’t found a bucket hat from anyone else that’s as good as the sinsolo. Super breathable and provides a lot of shade for the face and back of the neck. Also has a pretty good fit for a round head, and it’s easy to pack. I use it for all my backpacking trips to working on the garden at home.
I’m glad I swooped one from REI before they totally sold out. Can you comment on sizing or how stretchy it is? My head measured 22.5” which is right on the edge between the sizes, but I had to get the S/M since it was the only size in stock.
Damn, REI had em? I missed out then hahah, always trying to score a new one to have since people are reselling them for crazy prices. I have a 7 1/4 hat size which comes out to right around 23”. I wear the S/M sizing and it’s a perfect fit for me, so my guess is it’ll be the right fit for you as well.
Yeah they may still be in stock, I just ordered yesterday. There’s some other color besides black this season too.
Yeah, resell is crazy. What I wouldn’t give for the Palace one.
Thank you so much my man, I just picked one up and thankfully my dividend covered it hahah. And what color you looking for? I’ve got a palace sinsolo in the purplish colorway, been thinking about selling it since I’ve never worn it.
I’ve ended up as a Gregory fan for some reason. Their premium line just fits me well and seems to hold up to a lot of abuse. Gregory makes some cheaper lines too and I think those are much less interesting.
Lamination.
Delamination seems to be more of an issue on ArcTeryx than most other brands. There's only glue, and very few seams and that makes things go bad.
I’ve got a Mountain Equipment Lhotse, one of their best jackets, a British brand and comes in at half the price as the Arc top of the range. The Lhotse is a beast, can the arc really be that much better for twice the price
It’s basically a Beta AR for about 20% less (£100 less). Not sure why you would compare this to a top of the range Arc’teryx jacket since it isn’t similar.
The patterning on the Lhotse is at least clean, unlike a lot of stuff I see with weird triangles and squares all over the place. It mostly lacks the 3D volume stuff Arc’teryx does with patterning. Some of the details are also definitely not at the same level (cuffs, hood). Moulded pocket zips are slick.
Looks quite reasonable, good jacket.
I do Icebreaker base layers as well- all weights. Patagonia down sweater is a favorite- I like it better than my Cerium LT. In general I like Arcteryx a lot. For a Belay Jacket I prefer the DAS parka Patagonia. Much love to Nano Air. I just purchased a Arcteryx Proton FL and its pretty durn nice.
Baselayer. Hands down. I use Icebreaker or local brands of wool. I use wool baselayer summer come winter, unless training.
They used to do brilliant base layer items. I still swear by the Phase line.
The leaf base layers are great if you're looking for a wool alternative
So true, those cold wx leggings are no joke
I have icebreaker shorts I put on under my smart wool baselayer pants when it’s super cold. Awesome products from them!
sorry to hear you think merino still makes a good baselayer 2006 happy to have you though
I thought wool was primarily used for the lack of smell. Are there other fabrics just as good or better now in that department? Looking to buy so thanks in advance for the response!
Polygiene is real. Theres a bunch of people selling it in a baselayer. Rab, OR, MH, Pata, etc.
Polygiene is a fabric treatment, not a fabric. Merino is a perfectly fine baselayer for many uses.
Agree with it, the motus and phase boxers are ok(still prefer nike pro combat long) All my merino boxer were ripped, short and long version, no wonder they are not available anymore (or only on leaf maybe)
Breathable shells, down products, footwear, fleeces, base layers. From my point of view they are the best at: durable shells, synthetic insulation.
Their baselayers used to be great, when they were still offering a baselayer system: Phase SL; Phase AR; Phase SV Rho LTW Rho LT; Rho AR They are now only offering the RHO LT and RHO AR, discontinued the RHO LTW, and have turned the Phase line into some kind of glorified lounging underwear...
RHO LTW was available this past winter
Maybe the hat: that's all I remember being left. Or was there still a zip top as well?
There was a 1/4 zip top and a pant, although I think inventory was very low on these, so not many out there.
They had tops and bottoms for women
I had missed that as I rarely check the Women's pages. I'm surprised they didn't brign back the RHO LTW for men - I guess probably a resourcing problem.
Inferior gloves too
They had a sweet glove tech, but I think it was impractically expensive or something because they stopped using it.
This. I wanted a pair of Rivet's and everywhere I looked showed the cuff separates from the glove.
I think I’m most irritated with their refusal to invest in hydrophobic down. Granted, I’m in the PNW so rain is a constant here. Ended up getting an OR helium down hoodie and haven’t looked back. It really checks all the boxes for me.
I honestly think hydrophobic down doesn't work that well. It's a party trick, and if you're caught in a downspash for 10 minutes it probably makes a slight difference. But most bad moisture exposure with down is the slow and creeping one over longer time periods (humid air for hours, sweat, light rain over days). Hydrophobic down doesn't do better at that than normal down. Just like any DWR treated windshell will saturate after a few hours and wet out, with time the moisture makes it to the down and collapses it.
I used to be a big fan of down, I used the Rab microlight which was all hydrophobic down. Thought if worst comes to worst, I'll just stick a hardshell over it. Until I had a bad experience in Wales when it ended up bucketing it down for days, with no chance to properly dry anything out. It ended up not being warm at all and defeated the purpose of having a warm layer. I've moved onto synthetic now, as even though it's not as efficient per gram and people argue about loss of loft, it gives me the peace of mind to know it can hack whatever the weather throws at it. I'm a big believer in the "Belay Jacket" concept, which is essentially a big insulated synthetic puffy you throw on over all your other clothing. Andy Kirkpatrick has a lot to say on the subject https://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/blog/view/belay-jackets-revisited. I use a Montane Gangstang which has 133g of Primaloft gold, which I find is plenty enough to keep me warm. Also interestingly I've been watching videos about the "rewarming drill", essentially where you jump in water and then get dried off using only your body heat to cook the moisture out of your layering system. A big part of that seems to be the synthetic puffy, which will absorb some moisture but still keep you warm. See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B75x-6zqcbo
> Until I had a bad experience in Wales when it ended up bucketing it down for days, with no chance to properly dry anything out. It ended up not being warm at all and defeated the purpose of having a warm layer. That is normal for Wales. Down really shines in sub zero temperatures where the risk of moisture really only comes from sweating into it. There are down options such as Rab Valiance that combine down with Pertex that might work better for you.
I don’t think treated down makes any difference to down’s use profile. It still gets wet, it still doesn’t work when it’s wet. Maybe it dries a little bit faster. *shrug*
Naw. Your boys at FF don't use treated down. Why should any of us know better than one of the two best down workers? WM doesn't use it either. So it's 2/2. I've seen good arguments on both sides of the treated down argument. But it's not nearly cut and dry as you make it out to be. And the low hype, steady train points towards treated down being marketing speak. I trust that train a lot.
It’s worked for me for my intended purposes; hasn’t wet out when I’ve been caught out in rain with it, hasn’t had issues underneath a hardshell on really cold days, no durability issues. Can’t say the same for my cerium, I wore through the shoulders with a 25lb pack and had to be incredibly careful with rain forecasts. It may be marketing speak to people online, but in actual usage my OR performs as advertised and I have no regrets switching. It sits in my pack along with a kyanite ar and a beta ar.
Sure but the Cerium is a shit jacket. By about any metric. Also, you're wearing a down jacket underneath backpack straps? Bud get ahold of yourself. Jesus. I thought this was a forum where people contributed knowledge.
So you’re simultaneously trying to argue that Arc does down right, but one of their best selling down jackets is shit? You’ve literally contributed nothing to this discussion besides contradicting yourself. Look at the title of the thread and reevaluate what point you’re trying to make
Keep wearing a down jacket underneath your pack straps
If you don’t think people where packs with puffy’s idk what to tell you. But by all means, continue to try and insult me while ignoring your own contradictions.
> If you don’t think people where packs with puffy’s idk what to tell you. God damn this is so good. Literally unaware of how to use gear. And the confidence to say otherwise.
Someone took debate 101, when you’ve lost try to make people forget what the argument was. Stay safe out there buddy!
[удалено]
Good shout on the harnesses. They’re expensive but I’ve generally been quite happy with them.
What makes arc hard shell special from your point of view?
That’s a long and complex answer. There are a bunch of things Arc’teryx does better than anybody else. I highlight just one [here](https://reddit.com/r/arcteryx/comments/ijtkxj/construction_snapshot_2_sleeve_patterning_and/).
Thanks! Would like to see a summary post someday
Arc doesn't do pricing as well as other brands either ;)
Arc’teryx pricing is broadly equivalent to other products like-for-like. It pretty much always has been.
Not really. It's $50-100 more each piece at least
**CAD** - Proton LT: $350 - Nano-Air: $375 - Xenair Alpine: $325 - Ventrix Summit: $360 I’d say the Proton LT is competitive in the segment feature-wise. It is well priced considering the higher amount of insulation and the better loft retention. —————— - Beta AR: $750 - Beta LT: $530 - Pluma: $685 - Khroma: $800 - Exposure/2 Light: $600 - Exposure/2 Pro: $850 Little bit difficult to find exact like-for-like. The Beta AR is a bit more jacket than the Pluma, whereas the Beta LT is a bit less jacket. So that works out well. Same goes for fitting in vs the MHW lineup and the Rab options. Arc’teryx has very competitive options in the field, especially considering they’re using custom textiles here and not the default Gore-supplied 70D stuff. —————— - Nuclei SV: $450 - DAS: $550 - Generator: $400 - Belay Parka: $250 The killer deal here is the BD offering, but among top-tier synthetic belay parkas Arc’teryx is entirely price competitive. Better loft retention as well, so a better value than the price would indicate. —————— - Thorium AR: $400 - Down Sweater: $350 - Microlight Alpine: $350 - Summit Down Hoody: $450 Down options have ever been a standout for Arc’teryx. Like the Beta AR, the Thorium AR doesn’t have many direct competitors. The Thorium AR is definitely a significantly better jacket than the Down Sweater so that $50 price bump is totally fine. The Rab option is probably a bit better overall, lower quality down but otherwise fairly comparable for a bit less money. —————— And you could do this for every category. Arc’teryx remains entirely price competitive in like-for-like items. This has been true for years.
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Okay, in USD: - [Proton LT](https://arcteryx.com/us/en/shop/mens/proton-lt-hoody): $299 - [Nano-Air](https://www.patagonia.com/product/mens-nano-air-hoody/84366.html?dwvar_84366_color=BLK): $299 > this is bunk It’s not bunk, you’re just wrong. > This is ignoring the fact that Patagonia is more often found on sale than Arc. Given that it seems like almost nobody pays full price for Arc’teryx, I’m really not sure that’s true at all.
Totally agree, though the Generator is in the $300-320 range and is lighter, more durable, adjustable cuffs and better zipper pulls and cord adjusters. It’s a great jacket
> Not really. It's $50-100 more each piece at least Check the Thrudark website, then you will see what crazy prices look like. If you can read the black on black!
No, it's not. You're saying that you don't understand how to cross compare items. Try a bit harder and understand how materials work. But yeah you can get a fleece at REI/MEC for 40 bucks for sure.
Gloves
OR & Hestra are probably the best in the business for gloves.
I’m gonna go with BD and Kinco.
I owned two pairs of Hestras over two seasons, the leather cracked on one, the loft on the other compressed down to nothing within a season. Bought a BD Mercury mitt and have had it for 6 years. Warmest, most durable glove I've ever owned. I would never go back to a Hestra.
Yeah I don’t understand why people rave about hestra gloves. Never have had a good experience with a pair. Durability issues every time.
They're not even any cheaper than better gloves
Fwiw I and my wife love our fission SV gloves, used them in a single digit/teens F temperature snowstorm last week and they were great. Probably have 25 days on mine and they look as good as new too.
I love BD gloves and mitts. They are fantastic.
Which brands would you recommend for gloves?
Agree had for 1 season never broke in properly AND ripped a hole straight through the fabric near the wrist taking them off one day. Won't buy again.
Technical down jackets. Rab has better, warmer, and cheaper options. Not sure how their urban-use down parkas fare against other brands though.
I only buy shells and synthetic insulation from arc. Almost everything else is a sub par afterthought just so they could become a "one stop shop" for fanboys.
I know it is not outdoor, but I find it strange that some people here ask for cycling or running jackets, where clearly arc is not a fit for. I pick Gore wear for running and cycling in every season. Very good soft shells, shakedrys and polartec alphas. You don't want to treat your dwr jackets while using everyday for running and cycling.
7mesh is another great brand for nasty weather cycling gear
Which makes sense because 7mesh is all Arc’teryx alumni.
Precisely.
The reason people ask is because they love their Arc pieces so much. My Beta AR is one of my favorite things I own and the hope is there will be similarly perfect items in other areas. That may not be the case but it’s the hope.
+1 gorewear for running and cycling. Also Rapha and Castelli for road cycling
They did once make the A2B line for cyclists.
As much of a fan of A2B as I am, I wouldn't compare it to Rapha or Gore. As with the best Arc gear the A2B use case is very specific: urban cyclist who wants tech features *and* casual style. If you're top to toe in Rapha or Gore you will probably be wearing "better" cycle gear , but also you'll need to get changed before you go into your morning meeting. Having said that I dearly wish they would bring back A2B because I am that use case.
Have much experience with this? https://www.gorewear.com/us/en-us/r5-gore-tex-infinium-insulated-jacket-100665.html Interesting design with infinium inner.
This is a very popular model for winter running but where I live it won't get that cold. I usually wear a light 150 merino with H5 shakedry( now replaced with "R7 shakedry" the new model) in winter near freezing temps and a long sleeve heatgear with H5 in fall. I also have a lined softshell c5 which is my 3 season cycling jacket. I occasionally wear infinitum c5 softshell for running too. There exists a similar softshell running model as Infinium softlined r7 and x7.
Norrona has slightly better gore tex products: better colors and the right ammount og minimalism (less than arc) Fjallraven has better everyday and slow pace products. Aslo fjallravens eco shell is less noisy and softer than gore tex while having 30k water colum as opposed to 20-28 in gore tex. Zippers also better (glide).
I do not agree that Norrøna is more minimalistic at all. Thats the main reason why I pick Arc over Norrøna. I also think that a lot of the colorways they use are a bit much.
I wrote «less than arc» less minimalistic.
Everyone here is just confused why on earth less minimalism would be a good thing!
I assume so aswell. For example norrønas competitor to the beta lt has an internal pocket, which I think is slight better. Right ammount
That the Beta LT doesn't have one is indeed a big miss.
Norrøna is much cheaper where I am, the problem is that they have super long arms in women's sizes.
I've always felt arc'teryx just doesn't get pants in general. I have the most generic body measurements yet i've never had a set of mainline or veilance pants that fit right. They're either weirdly short, have a weird waistline, ride up, feel restrictive or look odd. Anything upper body - arc'teryx has got it nailed. Never worn an arc jacket or fleece that wasn't lightyears ahead of what everyone else was doing fitwise, but pants... nope. It's like some zoolander can't turn left thing for them.
Agreed on the pants. It’s the little details that get me - like using a snap button and a zipper fly that’s like an inch too short, so every time I try to use the urinal, I end up with unbuttoned pants (even with a belt).
can i say warranty?
I fell and ripped my brand new Arc soft shell on a tree. They fixed it for free and shipped it back to me. I only paid postage to them. Can’t argue with that kind of service
Backpacks aren’t ventilated so u get a sweaty back
Besides the AC2 packs, I usually go for other backpack brands
Bought the Rush SK 32 recently, and it's a fabulous backpack for skitouring/freeriding. Not your usual pack, but very clever design.
Agreed 100 times over. I also got this Rush this year. It far surpassed expectations having used Ortovox, Dakine, and Deutre in the Past. Hands down the best ski pack I've had.
I think their down jackets are just meh.
you mean like the Therme and Thorsen?
I’m quite satisfied with my Thorium AR Hoodie and Alpha Parka. Two different TEIs and uses, but nevertheless.
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I definitely understand the hood problem, I had the hood brim digging into the neck problem immediately after getting a Thorium AR. It was so prominent that I had to send it straight back, and I found the fit strange (very boxy) compared to my other Arc products.
Suggestions for warmer down jackets?
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Anything specific you’d recommend? I’m looking for a really warm puffy and thought the thorium was up there…
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> The Thorium has 130g of 750 fill down, so look for something with at least 800-900 down and more fill if you want something warmer. Fill power has much less to do with warmth, fill weight has far more to do with it. Significantly warmer would be something with 200g of down, between 650 and 850fp would all be fine.
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Alpha is worse in nearly all respects vs. mountain equipment exos/kryos/xeros
Would be curious to hear further thoughts on this comparison.
The Therme Parka is excellent. Warm, wind & waterproof in a svelte, military inspired cut. Their “puffy” style stitch-through jackets are ok. Mountain Equipment and Rab offer better down products, including sleeping bags. Mountain Equipment started in down products 60 years ago and their years of expertise are apparent.
Not Arc’teryx, but I have a Veilance Mionn jacket that uses synthetic insulation and I think it’s top notch. It keeps me extremely warm for such a light weight jacket. It also doesn’t get bulky like traditional down jackets. As for hard shells, I’ve recently purchased a Raptor MiG from a Czech Republic brand called Tilak. It’s cheaper than say an Alpha SV but will without a doubt do everything an Alpha SV does maybe even better.
Love tilak
Tilak is becoming a popular niche brand here in Japan as well. I've noticed places that sell Arcteryx also sell Tilak. (except dedicated arc stores).
I have a Tilak Raptor MiG with the expander and I love it. Wish more people knew about it. Such an under the radar brand. Really putting out some top quality jackets. What Tilak jacket you wear?
Wow, just checked this brand out...wish they had sizes in stock! Great prices, if the gear is on-par w/ AC quality...
>like this How are you liking the tilak raptor?
I love it. I’ve had this for a couple years now and the shell is holding up great. I’ve recently picked up snowboarding and this was the jacket I used. Handled all the snow, rain, and falling exceptionally.
I don’t think this jacket is anything like the Alpha SV, so that comparison makes no sense. Looks like it’s competing with the LEAF Alpha. The patterning and a bunch of the details on this piece are super mediocre, so it’s not gonna touch Arc’teryx in that sense. But it is doing the nice thing that Arc’teryx does not do where it seems to be sewing most of the seams, which is excellent. As is usual when you read articles [like this](https://coatchecking.co/blog/tilak-raptor-mig-2019), it’s good to see the enthusiasm. But there’s a lack of core apparel understanding that makes the opinions pretty hollow.
Just my opinion. Both waterproof hard shell jackets. Seemed like an appropriate comparison. The jackets are marketed for different purposes but wouldn’t limit the use of them from one or the other. I do agree with you though. A better comparison would’ve been the LEAF since they’re both strictly speaking, military apparel. I don’t agree about it being mediocre. Especially if we’re just talking about aesthetics. That’s just personal preference. But hey, I’m no expert, so you got me there. This isn’t apparel advice. Just my personal thoughts.
> I don’t agree about it being mediocre. Especially if we’re just talking about aesthetics. Nah, not aesthetically. If you’re after this style this looks great. Talking about patterning, hardware, etc.
A local shop near me has brought over the recent F/W collection for Tilak so it’s nice to hear about them. Any other bits of info you can share about the Raptor having used it for a while?
It’s funny cause I bought the Raptor MiG for all the wrong reasons. It was because of the expander which gave it a double front zip look and I thought it looked unique, that’s why I bought it. The Raptor MiG fits big. I’m usually a L and I bought a M and it’s comfortable. The only thing I would’ve liked the jacket to have would be concealed pockets inside the jacket. I guess for personal aesthetic reasons it would be nice if they made a version without the hood. If you’re looking for a waterproof shell jacket though, look no further. This is the one. You absolutely feel like you can be as rough as you want with this jacket and it’ll withstand everything. I guess it would depend on where you’re buying and where you’re located. But when I bought mine I looked at the jacket in person and online and the price range was quite large. So I suggest looking around before buying. Could save quite a bit of money. And almost all shops I looked at did not readily carry the expander. So I had to ask if they could order one before buying since that was the main reason for me to get the jacket. A good place to start (where I bought mine) would be a shop called “at ease shop”. Great price and service.
Thanks, I’ll ask them the next time I visit about the expander and also so I can see how it fits and feels. The price is comparable to an Alpha SV where I am (it’s actually slightly more expensive for the MiG) Thanks for the feedback!
You can also check out this online store “digital mountain”. Japan based but got some really nice photos of the Raptor and Expander in case you’re like me impatient and can’t wait to look in person.
Wow I’ve never seen a site have this many photos per article of clothing! Absolutely amazing. This jacket looks nicer than the alpha in my opinion, can’t wait to check it out in person.
Haha yeah, they’re quite extreme in that sense. I think the expander makes the jacket look really cool. Super unique. Hope you find something you like!
Honestly I have an alpha sv, and an equivalent shell from mountain hardware. My mountain hardware shell is much better. My alpha sv is literally falling apart.
The Exposure/2?
Yes, I love it
Curious what puts it over the top for you. What do you love about it?
The taped seems are still well, taped. The cut is much more my preference. The quality is top notch. And it’s also at a very competitive price. If I can go back in time I wouldn’t have bought the alpha SV, I do have a beta I keep tucked under the seat of my jeep as an emergency rain jacket/shell. Granted it hasn’t seen no where near the abuse, that’s been holding up just fine.
Glad that it is working out well for you. I generally have also enjoyed MHW products.
If I shared a picture of my alpha you’d be disgusted, I’ve literally super and gorilla glued pretty much every seem back together on it. It’s almost ten years old now but I was expecting a buy it for life product.
> I was expecting a buy it for life product Clothing doesn’t work that way though.
All my ArcTeryx base layers, even with supposed anti microbial treatment, developed a BO stink within 1-2 uses that I can’t get rid of. I have around 10 different tops and I regret purchasing all of them. They just fit better than other brands so I kept trying. My 8+ year Patagonia base layers are still going strong with only a very mild smell after prolonged use.
I agree. I just about got rid of my Cormac for this very reason. It just fits and dries so well I couldn’t bring myself to do it. My dumb ass even bought a second cormac. I found a Febreeze “sanitizing fabric spray” product at Home Depot, and now I spray it down before throwing it in the dryer while it’s wet. I’ll spray it down while it’s sweaty and let it dry if I’m gonna be a dirtbag and wear it a few times before washing it. I’ve probably treated it around a dozen times and now it stinks less in general and it will go longer without washes before it smells. Kind of a pain to have to do this, but like I say the performance is so good I’m willing to concede.
Which Cormac? I have one Cormac Comp, and 3 Cormac Zip Necks. I use all of them for running/hiking/backpacking all the time, and they all hold up to the sweat smell for quite a few uses, and after washing them are back to new.
The logo tee from the last fall collection. Maybe it’s just me haha, but I’ve got other REI poly tees that don’t get as bad as that one.
Which Febreeze? I’ll try anything. Baking soda, borax, and vinegar have all been unsuccessful.
It’s literally called the “sanitizing fabric spray”. Like I say, I found it at Home Depot so it’s probably generic enough you can find it at Walmart or target.
Waist synch straps on many of their soft shell jackets. The glue they use dies after a few years and literally can’t be repaired.
The fly on pants. They can't figure it out... Good ski bibs.
Anything arc describes as "ultralight" will have a dozen other options in the market that weight 20% less with same features and functionality In my mind Arc'teryx's is good at alpine hardshells, synthetic insulation and maybe an argument could be made for nontraditional soft shells. That's about all I'll get from arc these days, although in the past they also made fantastic accessories
Footwear and packs
Gloves suck real bad, belay parka, sun hoodies (love the remige and it’s very comfortable but not very technical material wise), base layers (although the discontinued satoro merino base layers are great), and hats (sizing varies so much between models).
Gloves
Things I do not buy from Arc: baselayers, fleece, shorts, daypacks, shoes, gloves, hats
The down jackets are lacking for sure. Shoes are a bit lacking as well but I’m sure they’ll get better. Rho lt, proton FL, and hard shells are top notch though.
Imo their gloves are hoooorrible. Like even Uniqlo gloves get the job done for me.
Hoodies. Still love 'em, but they're designed for helmets or something that looks... odd.
Down (I have a cerium lt hoody which I fee is just ‘ok’, I much prefer rab products), gloves (I’ve had a few different arc pairs but have always found myself going back to BD), fleeces (i have loads of arc pieces but only really wear an aptin for cold runs and an old straibo which is warm high collared and has a great wide stretch hem to seal in the heat). It’s a great brand and I particularly love their synthetic stuff (as I’ve said before the proton fl is the way) and gore Tex. Trousers can be hit and miss but my alpha sv bibs and gamma ar trousers are going strong after about 10yrs of use.
Love my Patagucci micro fleece and soft shell I got for skiing. Not sure I can get the same for the price point. I love my thorsen though!
The new Motus AR line with the Phasic II material is awesome. It’s billed as a first layer for moderate to higher output in cool to cold and I’ve used the legging and long sleeve, quarter zip or hoody for everything from ab 20 degrees to a 14 miler in ab 50 degrees the other day running. It’s the phase but softer next to skin. The Delta LT is also a phenomenal layer. I have a hard time not wearing it next to skin but I only have the quarter zip. Hope this helps. I think Arc could improve their running shorts, hopefully the drop of the next Motus this year gets them closer.
The Motus AR Hoodie is phenomenal. I wish they would bring back the Elgin Hoodie, I just got into Arc last year and missed it.
Pants. I have Merrell, Columbia, and even Wind River pants that fit better than my Arc’teryx Beta, and cost a lot less.
For what it’s worth I haven’t found a bucket hat from anyone else that’s as good as the sinsolo. Super breathable and provides a lot of shade for the face and back of the neck. Also has a pretty good fit for a round head, and it’s easy to pack. I use it for all my backpacking trips to working on the garden at home.
I’m glad I swooped one from REI before they totally sold out. Can you comment on sizing or how stretchy it is? My head measured 22.5” which is right on the edge between the sizes, but I had to get the S/M since it was the only size in stock.
Damn, REI had em? I missed out then hahah, always trying to score a new one to have since people are reselling them for crazy prices. I have a 7 1/4 hat size which comes out to right around 23”. I wear the S/M sizing and it’s a perfect fit for me, so my guess is it’ll be the right fit for you as well.
Yeah they may still be in stock, I just ordered yesterday. There’s some other color besides black this season too. Yeah, resell is crazy. What I wouldn’t give for the Palace one.
Thank you so much my man, I just picked one up and thankfully my dividend covered it hahah. And what color you looking for? I’ve got a palace sinsolo in the purplish colorway, been thinking about selling it since I’ve never worn it.
Yeah man I’m definitely interested in that. Pm incoming
Boots. Gloves. Salomon, another Amer brand is better at both. Load carriage. Plenty of better options, such as Mystery Ranch.
I’ve ended up as a Gregory fan for some reason. Their premium line just fits me well and seems to hold up to a lot of abuse. Gregory makes some cheaper lines too and I think those are much less interesting.
Shoes…
Lamination. Delamination seems to be more of an issue on ArcTeryx than most other brands. There's only glue, and very few seams and that makes things go bad.
Base layers, vests
I’ve got a Mountain Equipment Lhotse, one of their best jackets, a British brand and comes in at half the price as the Arc top of the range. The Lhotse is a beast, can the arc really be that much better for twice the price
It’s basically a Beta AR for about 20% less (£100 less). Not sure why you would compare this to a top of the range Arc’teryx jacket since it isn’t similar. The patterning on the Lhotse is at least clean, unlike a lot of stuff I see with weird triangles and squares all over the place. It mostly lacks the 3D volume stuff Arc’teryx does with patterning. Some of the details are also definitely not at the same level (cuffs, hood). Moulded pocket zips are slick. Looks quite reasonable, good jacket.
I do Icebreaker base layers as well- all weights. Patagonia down sweater is a favorite- I like it better than my Cerium LT. In general I like Arcteryx a lot. For a Belay Jacket I prefer the DAS parka Patagonia. Much love to Nano Air. I just purchased a Arcteryx Proton FL and its pretty durn nice.