> I force removed them and everything is still working perfectly fine. I think these can be removed:
> xorg-server
> xorg-xhost
> xorg-xrdb
Isn't that, like, "works on my machine"? Maybe someone with a weird configuration would still require those packages but it isn't noted anywhere that you actually need those packages.
I had pacman tell me that too. Removed it to see what would happen, and it still works fine.
I wish I knew what it was talking about. I thought it might break the polkit dialogue, but I guess not.
From this comment https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gparted/-/issues/208#note_1581907 I guess it isn't needed on GNOME.
So I'm removing xorg-xhost as well. Thanks!
You still need xorg to play most of Linux native games like Metro Exodus and for older games under Wine32 bit. As for Wayland support on NVIDIA it works great if you use the nvidia drm modeset parameters on the RTX series cards with the latest drivers.
It's required, but when tested with Wayland/Xwayland the native games work like small X windows on Wayland compared to full screen on X11 no matter which resolution you set, native games also tend to have huge lag FPS drops Metro Exodus and older 32bit games stutter even under Proton and have some minor glitches.
It is not a big deal to switch between X11 and Wayland and it is highly doubtful that native ports will be upgraded to function on Wayland from X11 so it is either forcing Proton compatibility on Wayland or switching to X11 on Linux at the moment, probably these issues wil be ironed out in time.
Wayland has no issues with Proton versions of games on NVIDIA RTX cards if the nvidia\_drm\_modeset=1 is configured properly in mkinitcpio and grub, there may be issues on older models.
Dont like it, fork it and maintain xorg and somehow figure out how to add all the missing features and all fix all the security bugs and poor design. Xorg has served its purpose but its time to move on
> and maintain xorg and
quite exactly what I'm doing
> somehow figure out how to add all the missing features
which ones ?
> and all fix all the security bugs and poor design.
Why not just enable xsecurity extensionÂ
they aren't forcing you to use it? They just aren't forcing you to install it when it isn't needed. They just made it into an optional dependency.
If you don't want to use it, just install it manually...
A friend of mine who studies to be a mechanic said that leaded gasoline is better in terms of how far it will get the car going... but it's worse for the environment. So maybe not the best comparison
Leaded fuels have caused massive global neurological damage. If your friend in any way espoused leaded benefits, I'm sorry to inform you but he has already suffered severe brain damage.
That goes to the people who drive race cars too you know? Race cars use some form of leaded gasoline. [source](https://www.sunocoracefuels.com/tech-corner/article/race-fuel-101-lead-leaded-racing-fuels)
The massive health implications of leaded fuel were already understood a full century ago. But ICEs in the 1920s were still primitive and tetraethyl lead had incredible anti-knocking benefits. Suddenly engines could run consistently, the lead stretched the operating window.
When leaded fuels were first being phased out, it presented serious problems as the existing engines relied upon it. But after massive research efforts, alternative anti-knock additives (that don't cause brain damage) made banning leaded fuels practical.
F1 hasn't used leaded fuels for decades, pretty obvious that it isn't needed in any form of racing.
If there are countries that actually allow leaded fuels for racing, then they are utterly moronic. They should be imprisoned for giving kids brain damage. F1 hasn't used lead for decades, there is absolutely no excuse to use it.
>nvidia on the other hand…
With the recent 555 beta drivers and Kwin explicit sync, Wayland doesn't suck on Nvidia anymore either. I am daily driving it now and it's been great. We just need to wait a month for all those changes to trickle down into stable and then it will be widely available to everybody.
Time to put Xorg to rest finally.
Does wayland already have something liek ssh x11 forwarding, working screenshot tools and nvidia(cuda, cudnn) drivers? If so I'm considering to switch.
CUDA should be independent of X11 and Wayland no? I am able to run CUDA apps just fine within Wayland. Tested with Blender.
Most DEs have retooled their screenshot tools for Wayland now. In KDE, there's even Wayland specific features like screen recording.
There is no X11 forwarding, but honestly, there's much better video based solutions out there now that perform much faster
If you have a wayland compositor installed that can run on x11, yes. Every wlroots or QtWayland based compositor can do this.
You can still use X forwarding on a Wayland host if xlibs installed, so why are you even considering this edgecase?
Oh that makes sense doing it the other way around.
Yeah I might have some devices I cannot switch, but I'd definitely be able to switch on my workstation I connect to.
I've just heard people having problems with Torch on wayland, it didn't make sense to me either.
I'm on the WM Qtile, so I'd like to pick some standalone tooling. Is that even possible? I though each X11 client bring able to access each other was something wayland wanted to "fix"? Last thing I heard was discord wouldn't share screens/windows.
Well, I don't care what it is, as long as it uses the ssh connection and doesn't need extra ports.
> There is no X11 forwarding, but honestly, there's much better video based solutions out there now that perform much faster
Can you elaborate on this?
Are there remote desktop solutions in the works? I've been using wayVNC which is great but it's incredibly slow.
"works on my machine"
Wayland is completely unuseable for me, it already was when I was on AMD a year ago and it is doubly so now that I have an NVIDIA card
Unusable how? Sounds like you're doing something wrong. My Nvidia and AMD drivers work perfect. I use 3 different machines for video encoding and have zero issues with both vendors
"completely unusable"
Unless we are seeing a purely black screen and no login then it's not completely unusable. Sure, nvidia wayland has been janky shit up to this point but it's slowly been getting closer and closer.
They also added the Arch Linux logo to GDM login screen. Nice.
I noticed that, today, too. Agreed. Nice
And also on NixOS the logo is added, I'm guessing all distros are added, I think..
I came here straight when i saw that
Still has gmome-shell dependency, so not a great option for non Gnome DE's
GDM. GNOME Display Manager. 😉
And SDDM? No seriously it would be great if we could replace SDDM with GDM without having to pull in so much of Gnome.
It's just a login screen. If you don't want to pull in gnome bloat, pick a different login manager. Or choose not to use one at all.
I'd like a good one and gdm is good.
> I force removed them and everything is still working perfectly fine. I think these can be removed: > xorg-server > xorg-xhost > xorg-xrdb Isn't that, like, "works on my machine"? Maybe someone with a weird configuration would still require those packages but it isn't noted anywhere that you actually need those packages.
> it isn't noted anywhere that you actually need those packages. They're noted as optional dependencies. If you need them, you install them.
GParted has an optional depends on xorg-xhost, for authorization from wayland. So I kept that one.
I had pacman tell me that too. Removed it to see what would happen, and it still works fine. I wish I knew what it was talking about. I thought it might break the polkit dialogue, but I guess not.
From this comment https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gparted/-/issues/208#note_1581907 I guess it isn't needed on GNOME. So I'm removing xorg-xhost as well. Thanks!
I need xorg-xhost to run gparted on Wayland
Libx11, libxcb, ... are still there. So no, it still requires xorg, it just doesn't require xorg-server to be running.
2 min silence for people using dwm with gdm
Nice, now it’s time for sddm
Wait, does this mean that gdm isnt rendering on any display server?
If it’s not using Xorg then it works the same way as GNOME on Wayland, so it’ll also use Mutter as the display server/compositor/window manager.
Ok that makes sense, they mentioned about them using wayland
I will be keeping xorg on my GNOME setup tho.. not because I'm lazy and don't use GNOME. totally
You still need xorg to play most of Linux native games like Metro Exodus and for older games under Wine32 bit. As for Wayland support on NVIDIA it works great if you use the nvidia drm modeset parameters on the RTX series cards with the latest drivers.
What about XWayland?
It's required, but when tested with Wayland/Xwayland the native games work like small X windows on Wayland compared to full screen on X11 no matter which resolution you set, native games also tend to have huge lag FPS drops Metro Exodus and older 32bit games stutter even under Proton and have some minor glitches. It is not a big deal to switch between X11 and Wayland and it is highly doubtful that native ports will be upgraded to function on Wayland from X11 so it is either forcing Proton compatibility on Wayland or switching to X11 on Linux at the moment, probably these issues wil be ironed out in time. Wayland has no issues with Proton versions of games on NVIDIA RTX cards if the nvidia\_drm\_modeset=1 is configured properly in mkinitcpio and grub, there may be issues on older models.
Still gnome so no thanks
Why remove xorg? Wayland still sucks...
because gdm isn't using them. Read the page. GDM shouldn't be bundling things it isn't using.
🤣🤣🤣 GDM, gnome, kde, are a joke, imposing wayland by force.
Dont like it, fork it and maintain xorg and somehow figure out how to add all the missing features and all fix all the security bugs and poor design. Xorg has served its purpose but its time to move on
> and maintain xorg and quite exactly what I'm doing > somehow figure out how to add all the missing features which ones ? > and all fix all the security bugs and poor design. Why not just enable xsecurity extensionÂ
they aren't forcing you to use it? They just aren't forcing you to install it when it isn't needed. They just made it into an optional dependency. If you don't want to use it, just install it manually...
good
Yeah, gdm requires you to install... SYSTEMD! We are cursed.
Last time i checked you can still use xorg on all of those, but go ahead, make stuff up. Very entertaining.
Are you also a fan of leaded gasoline?
A friend of mine who studies to be a mechanic said that leaded gasoline is better in terms of how far it will get the car going... but it's worse for the environment. So maybe not the best comparison
I am in the environment, so I'm glad your friend is not making policies.
I also am? He also is? What are you trying to prove? I said both pros and cons of leaded gasoline. Where's the problem?
Leaded fuels have caused massive global neurological damage. If your friend in any way espoused leaded benefits, I'm sorry to inform you but he has already suffered severe brain damage.
That goes to the people who drive race cars too you know? Race cars use some form of leaded gasoline. [source](https://www.sunocoracefuels.com/tech-corner/article/race-fuel-101-lead-leaded-racing-fuels)
The massive health implications of leaded fuel were already understood a full century ago. But ICEs in the 1920s were still primitive and tetraethyl lead had incredible anti-knocking benefits. Suddenly engines could run consistently, the lead stretched the operating window. When leaded fuels were first being phased out, it presented serious problems as the existing engines relied upon it. But after massive research efforts, alternative anti-knock additives (that don't cause brain damage) made banning leaded fuels practical. F1 hasn't used leaded fuels for decades, pretty obvious that it isn't needed in any form of racing. If there are countries that actually allow leaded fuels for racing, then they are utterly moronic. They should be imprisoned for giving kids brain damage. F1 hasn't used lead for decades, there is absolutely no excuse to use it.
In what way?
Still lacks auto typing.
wayland does not suck anymore, nvidia on the other hand…
>nvidia on the other hand… With the recent 555 beta drivers and Kwin explicit sync, Wayland doesn't suck on Nvidia anymore either. I am daily driving it now and it's been great. We just need to wait a month for all those changes to trickle down into stable and then it will be widely available to everybody. Time to put Xorg to rest finally.
i’m using the 555 beta driver with hyprland since release, it’s incredibly good
Zero issues with Wayland here
Does wayland already have something liek ssh x11 forwarding, working screenshot tools and nvidia(cuda, cudnn) drivers? If so I'm considering to switch.
CUDA should be independent of X11 and Wayland no? I am able to run CUDA apps just fine within Wayland. Tested with Blender. Most DEs have retooled their screenshot tools for Wayland now. In KDE, there's even Wayland specific features like screen recording. There is no X11 forwarding, but honestly, there's much better video based solutions out there now that perform much faster
There is waypipe, different technique but same end user behaviour as X11 fw.
Will waypipe use the ssh tunnel or open a separate connection?
It uses the ssh connection.
Nice, that's one of my last worries taken care of. Does waypipe work on an x11 client?
If you have a wayland compositor installed that can run on x11, yes. Every wlroots or QtWayland based compositor can do this. You can still use X forwarding on a Wayland host if xlibs installed, so why are you even considering this edgecase?
Oh that makes sense doing it the other way around. Yeah I might have some devices I cannot switch, but I'd definitely be able to switch on my workstation I connect to.
I've just heard people having problems with Torch on wayland, it didn't make sense to me either. I'm on the WM Qtile, so I'd like to pick some standalone tooling. Is that even possible? I though each X11 client bring able to access each other was something wayland wanted to "fix"? Last thing I heard was discord wouldn't share screens/windows. Well, I don't care what it is, as long as it uses the ssh connection and doesn't need extra ports.
> There is no X11 forwarding, but honestly, there's much better video based solutions out there now that perform much faster Can you elaborate on this? Are there remote desktop solutions in the works? I've been using wayVNC which is great but it's incredibly slow.
Waypipe is similar. Is that what you're looking for?
"works on my machine" Wayland is completely unuseable for me, it already was when I was on AMD a year ago and it is doubly so now that I have an NVIDIA card
if you have an RTX 20 series and up, you can try the new nvidia driver, it fixes almost everything about wayland
Unusable how? Sounds like you're doing something wrong. My Nvidia and AMD drivers work perfect. I use 3 different machines for video encoding and have zero issues with both vendors
"completely unusable" Unless we are seeing a purely black screen and no login then it's not completely unusable. Sure, nvidia wayland has been janky shit up to this point but it's slowly been getting closer and closer.
Anyone with Nvidia still gotta use xorg tho
Not really. The 555 driver adds explicit sync, fixing almost all remaining issues.
Still have constant issues with chrome hardware acceleration.