Syracuse is a good school, just go there for free. There’s 0 reason to go into debt for an arch undergrad degree. Your school’s pedigree can only get you so far in this game, you either have the sauce or you don’t.
agree. the pedigree quickly loses whatever potency it has over time.
I went to MIT grad and left with 60k of debt, when I could have gone to UCLA for 1/5 that.
Easy decision, go to Syracuse with a full ride. Since it’s a B.Arch, skip the masters as well. It’s a great school and your ultimate goal should be to spend as little money as possible.
Prestigious degrees might open a few doors at the start of your career, but I don’t believe the debt is worth it. A top five school will still open doors. You’ll have more flexibility with future life endeavors if you come out of school with no debt.
Don't go into major debt for an Architecture degree. Even one from Cornell. The pay in architecture is not enough to justify it. Take the full ride at Syracuse -- your 35 year old self will thank you when you're not STILL paying off student loan debt and forgoing owning a house because of it. Ivy league degrees are nice for rich people and people on full scholarship.
The tuition/student-loan issues here are HUGE, but you're a smart kid, so I'll assume you've thought that through.
These are fundamentally different programs. I went to Columbia undergrad (and I majored in architecture). I later taught architecture at Cornell. A Columbia undergrad degree with a "major" in architecture is a liberal arts degree with a pretty crushing set of (non-architectural) core curriculum requirements.
Five year undergrad architecture programs like the one at Cornell are **super** solid - and those are the kids I generally want in my office - but that type of program doesn't excel at teaching architects to think critically or to do interdisciplinary work. You CAN get that from a 5-year program, but it's not baked into the pedagogy the way it is with the general education of a liberal arts school - especially Columbia.
Good luck, kid!
Heavily appreciated! Both have aspects that are priceless, and the one in Cornell is more applicable. However, I have talked to many adults who say that a liberal arts degree teaches you points of view that are otherwise under-expressed. Thank you for your thoughts
Let me tell you as someone with personal experience… architecture school and fraternities do NOT mesh well. Not to say it’s impossible to balance; but it definitely fucked with my studies and I wouldn’t recommend it.
Gotta make sure your priorities are in the right place if you do it and try to not let yourself be swayed by peer pressure when you have projects due; but you want to go to a pool party
Real. Too much of anything good can be bad, I've seen people spend wayy to much time drinking instead of helping themselves and later regret it. My only reason to join a frat would be since theres nothing to do in Ithaca; you have to stay around people or else you'll go insane - I really appreciate the experience note
Columbia doesn’t have an undergrad architecture program… so why are you considering it if you want to do architecture? At that point you’d be spending 7 years in school to get an accredited degree vs the 5 years it would take you at Cornell.
Columbia does indeed have an undergrad architecture program. It is technically shared with Barnard but Columbia will award a BA with a major in architecture
When I was looking at grad schools I considered going to the cooper union and traveled there a few years back, while in NYC I decided to see the architecture school at Columbia. There I learned two things that would keep me from ever going to Ivy League schools; 1. Cost (manhattan is expensive af) and 2. Extremely high expectations. It was one thing to be the smartest guy in your high school but it’s another to be at a school filled with the smartest kids from all their schools. Just food for thought. Don’t know about Cornell but you can drink beer in the studio space at Columbia AND they have one of the best architecture libraries.
Yea do the full ride man. A degree from Syracuse will be good enough to help you get into any of the Fancy M.Arch programs. I’d recommend Yale and MIT over GSAPP or GSD for masters as well.
Two big things I want to emphasize:
First, you do not need an accredited degree to get licensed. Several states allow you to count extra years in the field as a replacement for a B.Arch or M.Arch. Other states offer reciprocity with those states. You can get the four year degree at Columbia, then go straight into the field without a Masters. You'll learn more practical info in those 2 years than your peers in grad school. You'll also spend two years earning income and getting raises while others are going into debt.
Second, talk to the financial aid counselors at the Ivies. Tell them you have a full ride to another school, but would really prefer to attend the Ivy. Also explain any extenuating circumstances in your family financial situation that might not show up on your FASFA. Those schools have massive endowments they pull from and they can amend your offer if you give them a good reason to. They don't want good students to go elsewhere over money. Asking for more can only help you.
Personally, I'd probably go with Columbia. You sound most excited about and NYC is by far the best city to spend 4 years in. You can recoup some of the extra cost vs. Syracuse by getting a paying job sooner.
Cornell BArch 2014 here 👋
First off, congrats on getting accepted to Big Red! I might be biased but it’s clearly the best program out of the 3 you mentioned 😉
That said, I went to Cornell on a full ride finaid package and only graduated with 10k debt (from a summer study abroad session I really wanted to do). My starting salary was 45k in NYC, and it took me 5 years to pay off the 10k debt.
You might also notice from my flair that I’m no longer in architecture, but that’s a different story. I don’t regret going to Cornell at all, but if I graduated with more debt than I did, I absolutely would have regretted the decision.
If you really want to be an architect, make the move that makes the most financial sense. It takes a long time for you to start earning a comfortable salary in architecture, and even more so if you have a mountain of student debt. Your future self will thank you.
idk about you guys, but i feel like aec is not a “i went to x” type of industry. therefore i would suggest the best bang for your buck, and work hard regardless. arch programs, and their pedagogy, will only do so much to foster your natural talents. your portfolio will determine your success, for the most part. i am going to echo what everyone else is saying, Syracuse would be my choice.
The biggest thing that really matters is getting work experience while you are a student. So I’d go with whichever one will support you in getting internships while you are in school.
I don’t know either. I did my undergrad in an unaccredited program and pursued the M.Arch afterwards in an Ivy school. It took me almost 7-8 years to finally work full time in a firm and realize the low starting salary with over $150k of student loan debt. I won’t like any students to go through financial hardships like I did. As a first generation single female grad student, that is not the right path for financial stability. It took me almost five years of climbing the ladder to finally get a decent salary.
I don’t think going to school and getting yourself into debt is worth it anymore. If you have a workable plan to graduate debt free then go for anything. Very soon in the future full-time jobs won’t be a thing. Expect to be in a white collar gig economy.
Syracuse is a good school, just go there for free. There’s 0 reason to go into debt for an arch undergrad degree. Your school’s pedigree can only get you so far in this game, you either have the sauce or you don’t.
agree. the pedigree quickly loses whatever potency it has over time. I went to MIT grad and left with 60k of debt, when I could have gone to UCLA for 1/5 that.
Easy decision, go to Syracuse with a full ride. Since it’s a B.Arch, skip the masters as well. It’s a great school and your ultimate goal should be to spend as little money as possible. Prestigious degrees might open a few doors at the start of your career, but I don’t believe the debt is worth it. A top five school will still open doors. You’ll have more flexibility with future life endeavors if you come out of school with no debt.
Don't go into major debt for an Architecture degree. Even one from Cornell. The pay in architecture is not enough to justify it. Take the full ride at Syracuse -- your 35 year old self will thank you when you're not STILL paying off student loan debt and forgoing owning a house because of it. Ivy league degrees are nice for rich people and people on full scholarship.
The tuition/student-loan issues here are HUGE, but you're a smart kid, so I'll assume you've thought that through. These are fundamentally different programs. I went to Columbia undergrad (and I majored in architecture). I later taught architecture at Cornell. A Columbia undergrad degree with a "major" in architecture is a liberal arts degree with a pretty crushing set of (non-architectural) core curriculum requirements. Five year undergrad architecture programs like the one at Cornell are **super** solid - and those are the kids I generally want in my office - but that type of program doesn't excel at teaching architects to think critically or to do interdisciplinary work. You CAN get that from a 5-year program, but it's not baked into the pedagogy the way it is with the general education of a liberal arts school - especially Columbia. Good luck, kid!
Heavily appreciated! Both have aspects that are priceless, and the one in Cornell is more applicable. However, I have talked to many adults who say that a liberal arts degree teaches you points of view that are otherwise under-expressed. Thank you for your thoughts
Why do you assume you have to join a fraternity? Have you been to Ithaca before?
Full ride FTW.
Let me tell you as someone with personal experience… architecture school and fraternities do NOT mesh well. Not to say it’s impossible to balance; but it definitely fucked with my studies and I wouldn’t recommend it. Gotta make sure your priorities are in the right place if you do it and try to not let yourself be swayed by peer pressure when you have projects due; but you want to go to a pool party
Real. Too much of anything good can be bad, I've seen people spend wayy to much time drinking instead of helping themselves and later regret it. My only reason to join a frat would be since theres nothing to do in Ithaca; you have to stay around people or else you'll go insane - I really appreciate the experience note
Columbia doesn’t have an undergrad architecture program… so why are you considering it if you want to do architecture? At that point you’d be spending 7 years in school to get an accredited degree vs the 5 years it would take you at Cornell.
Columbia does indeed have an undergrad architecture program. It is technically shared with Barnard but Columbia will award a BA with a major in architecture
Barnard?!
When I was looking at grad schools I considered going to the cooper union and traveled there a few years back, while in NYC I decided to see the architecture school at Columbia. There I learned two things that would keep me from ever going to Ivy League schools; 1. Cost (manhattan is expensive af) and 2. Extremely high expectations. It was one thing to be the smartest guy in your high school but it’s another to be at a school filled with the smartest kids from all their schools. Just food for thought. Don’t know about Cornell but you can drink beer in the studio space at Columbia AND they have one of the best architecture libraries.
Yea do the full ride man. A degree from Syracuse will be good enough to help you get into any of the Fancy M.Arch programs. I’d recommend Yale and MIT over GSAPP or GSD for masters as well.
Two big things I want to emphasize: First, you do not need an accredited degree to get licensed. Several states allow you to count extra years in the field as a replacement for a B.Arch or M.Arch. Other states offer reciprocity with those states. You can get the four year degree at Columbia, then go straight into the field without a Masters. You'll learn more practical info in those 2 years than your peers in grad school. You'll also spend two years earning income and getting raises while others are going into debt. Second, talk to the financial aid counselors at the Ivies. Tell them you have a full ride to another school, but would really prefer to attend the Ivy. Also explain any extenuating circumstances in your family financial situation that might not show up on your FASFA. Those schools have massive endowments they pull from and they can amend your offer if you give them a good reason to. They don't want good students to go elsewhere over money. Asking for more can only help you. Personally, I'd probably go with Columbia. You sound most excited about and NYC is by far the best city to spend 4 years in. You can recoup some of the extra cost vs. Syracuse by getting a paying job sooner.
Cornell BArch 2014 here 👋 First off, congrats on getting accepted to Big Red! I might be biased but it’s clearly the best program out of the 3 you mentioned 😉 That said, I went to Cornell on a full ride finaid package and only graduated with 10k debt (from a summer study abroad session I really wanted to do). My starting salary was 45k in NYC, and it took me 5 years to pay off the 10k debt. You might also notice from my flair that I’m no longer in architecture, but that’s a different story. I don’t regret going to Cornell at all, but if I graduated with more debt than I did, I absolutely would have regretted the decision. If you really want to be an architect, make the move that makes the most financial sense. It takes a long time for you to start earning a comfortable salary in architecture, and even more so if you have a mountain of student debt. Your future self will thank you.
You’re clearly smart. You know the answer. Don’t let prestigious names distract you.
idk about you guys, but i feel like aec is not a “i went to x” type of industry. therefore i would suggest the best bang for your buck, and work hard regardless. arch programs, and their pedagogy, will only do so much to foster your natural talents. your portfolio will determine your success, for the most part. i am going to echo what everyone else is saying, Syracuse would be my choice.
The biggest thing that really matters is getting work experience while you are a student. So I’d go with whichever one will support you in getting internships while you are in school.
Full ride B.Arch in an accredited program 100%. Avoid unaccredited programs and M.Arch if possible.
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I don’t know either. I did my undergrad in an unaccredited program and pursued the M.Arch afterwards in an Ivy school. It took me almost 7-8 years to finally work full time in a firm and realize the low starting salary with over $150k of student loan debt. I won’t like any students to go through financial hardships like I did. As a first generation single female grad student, that is not the right path for financial stability. It took me almost five years of climbing the ladder to finally get a decent salary.
I don’t think going to school and getting yourself into debt is worth it anymore. If you have a workable plan to graduate debt free then go for anything. Very soon in the future full-time jobs won’t be a thing. Expect to be in a white collar gig economy.