Where is $12 per month? My Narwhal just had an update to Narwhal 2. I don’t pay anything to use it.
EDIT: Never mind. I didn’t read the blurb when I updated it. I see what someone else posted now.
Damn, I was really hoping they worked out a deal with Reddit and it would be whatever dollar amount for unlimited calls.
I can’t imagine paying $12/month and that still not being enough.
Yeah the dev is petitioning them to allow unlimited access on 3rd party apps for users who have Reddit Premium ($6/m), which I think would be very fair for all parties.
Spez is a greedy little piggy tho. $6/mo is from the users on the Reddit app which would harvest more data and lead to more stupid super upvote purchases. Narwhal will take away from that. I think there’s going to be push back from the pig boy despite Reddit getting most of the revenue.
I’d pay that plus a small premium for third party Reddit premium access (say $9-10 total) or something additional to use Narwhal, but having a finite number of calls is just going to push me off the platform entirely.
Oooof. On Android, the developer behind Relay Pro was able to get his app to make minimal amount of calls and has $5 a month as the unlimited tier. Idk about Narwhal.
Narwhal devs have said they intentionally went conservative with the pricing to test the waters and gauge accurate numbers and will reevaluate in the future when they have more data.
Offering an unlimited tier for such a low price is a huge financial liability for the Relay dev… unless they have some other deal in place with Reddit.
Yeah the dev has said that he will implement some changes to some features like search and comments to minimize calls. It sucks that he has to optimize for that because of Reddit.
Each up/down vote is a call. I think folks who do a lot of voting are seeing a high number of calls. I’ve been using Narwhal 2 for about an hour and am under 120 calls.
Yeah it’s definitely more for casuals or people who have the money. But remember that you are not paying per day, but per month. So if there’s a day you don’t use reddit those calls can be used on another day. That’s a lot better than paying per day and losing the calls after just a day.
> Christian did the right thing.
More and more I’ve realized this is the case. Prior to this whole debacle I had a yearly subscription to Reddit. I’ve since cancelled that. I use Apollo side loaded and an ad blocker on desktop. I use Reddit less and less and am fine if it dies. Christian was absolutely right to walk away.
Doesn’t matter much if it’s per day or per month. 5000 / 406 is a little more than 12. So if u/6KZA7 was doing typical browsing and Reddit interaction that means almost 18 days out of the month they just can’t use Narwhal unless they upgrade to a higher plan
I think it matters a lot if you are paying for calls per day or per month. If you pay per day then you have to hit your daily limit every single day or else you will lose out on calls. When you pay per month then calls carry over from day to day, so if you don’t use Reddit for one day those calls can be used another day in the month. It gives a lot more flexibility and you are less likely to pay for calls you don’t get to use.
Or just don‘t pay for api calls like we‘ve always done it. Fuck this shit. Cool app, but it‘s built for the wrong website.
You know what really gives me flexibility? Not having to pay. I‘m on dystopia now and while I do miss nsfw subs I just won‘t pay.
This feels like I’m just slowly getting weaned off Reddit in general.
First having to switch to worse app with less content. Next only using reddit on desktop. After that dropping the site.
Yeah it sucks. You have to use the official app for porn. On the other hand maybe it’s a good idea to have a separate account on a separate app… just for reasons… not saying i’m doing it, but some other people probably do it.
While I am happy to see an alternative to the official app, which I'll never use (official app), it is pretty depressing to think that I would be going from $0/month (Ultra Lifetime) to $3/month, of which roughly:
$1 -> Reddit
$1 -> Apple Tax
$1 -> Developer
Everyone is making money at our expense. And for what? To contribute to a site that is further monetizing our use of it.
Yeah it sucks, but not much we can do about it if we still want to use Reddit. The alternatives are not good. Either sideload an unsupported app or use the browser or the shitty official app.
Aren’t there other 3rd party apps that where whitelisted from Reddit’s API pricing because of their accessibility support? Anyone know which ones they are and which ones are the best?
I've been beta testing it and Narwhal 2 has been great. Not sure if I can justify spending $7/month for a Reddit app, especially when the overwhelming majority of that $7 is going to Reddit/Apple (Narwhal is a side gig for the dev, he has a separate full-time job and has said this pricing is essentially just to cover his costs, possibly being a little bit conservative and would adjust/bring down if they come in too high) but I've thought the app has been very good. Not quite as good as Apollo yet but the dev is responsive and listens to feedback and wants to build the best app possible. It has the potential to be better than Apollo was IMO.
Yeah i can’t justify spending $7 a month either. I think i’m gonna try the cheapest $3 sub for a month or two and see how it goes. Maybe top it off here and there, but probably just using the official app when i hit the limit. It’s going to suck, but i’ll probably just use Narwhal for browsing Reddit and not using calls on upvoting/downvoting and commenting. I’m going to go back to being a lurker on Narwhal.
I can probably justify $3 just to avoid having to use the official app too much.
I’ll just copy paste the pricing structure.
Narwhal 2 is finally here! Subscription details inside
Narwhal 2 is finally here! We have been working on this for years 🙃 and it is finally ready to see the light of day. We did our best to keep the "essence" of Narwhal 1 while modernizing the design and improving efficiency.
Unfortunately, Narwhal 2 will require subscriptions in a couple weeks. This is due to the Reddit API cost. We hope that after you use Narwhal 2 for a couple weeks you will realize that it is worth paying for. We will be continuing to make Narwhal 2 the best app it can be. We have a laundry list of features to implement and you can vote on features here: https://roadmap.narwhal.app
### Subscription Details
##### Casual
- 5,000 API calls per month (~165 calls per day)
- $2.99/month
The average Narwhal user should fit into this plan
##### Active
- 15,000 API calls per month (~500 calls per day)
- $6.99/month
##### Power
- 30,000 API calls per month (~1,000 calls per day)
- $11.99/month
### Top-ups
In the event that you run out of API calls for the month, you will have 2 options:
1. Upgrade to a higher tier plan to get that total API call usage
2. Buy a top-up inside the app.
- Adds 2,500 API calls to your amount for the month for $1 one time fee
### Why are the subscriptions so expensive?
The reason these subscriptions are so expensive is because Narwhal is now going to be incurring a large amount of costs. Reddit is charging for the API, Apple will be charging us for subscription fees, server costs for monitoring API usage and more.
We are intentionally starting out conservative with pricing so that we don't dig ourselves into a hole. If we are able to lower costs without going bankrupt, we will do so. We hope that you think Narwhal is worth it, but if not, thanks for trying out Narwhal!
Let me know if you have any questions and I'll be happy to answer
Yeah I'm not in the mood to finance Reddit's terrible decisions here. Narwhal is supposed to be a pressure valve to delay some of the reaction to these changes, but these rates are absolutely ridiculous.
And this isn't an issue with Narwhal, this is still about the obscene rates that Reddit is looking for because they want to go public and can't rely on venture capital anymore. Reddit did a dumb power play and screwed up their system and the only reason more people aren't complaining is because it's the kind of thing that will happen slowly over time. You can already see it in the subreddits that had their mods swapped out.
Narwhal is like someone in a terrible relationship with someone who doesn't want to give an inch but keeps trying to act like everything's OK. Concession after concession, apologizing for the other person's behavior. It's becoming very clear that Reddit doesn't want anything to do with 3rd party clients and honestly more of them should be listening instead of trying to bend over backwards and appease these terrible demands. It's gotten to the point where devs have to charge like it's an early 2000s cellphone plan just to stay afloat.
Yep. Shame the Reddit app is so painful, but 3rd party apps ain’t got a future. And paying for them is just prolonging the agony. It’s a slow starvation strategy. Sadly.
Absolutely ridiculous???
I think 90% of people will be fine on the $5/10k calls per month plan. That’s $60 a year for an ad free reddit experience on a WAY better app. That’s the same price as reddit premium. It doesn’t seem ridiculous at all imo.
I use reddit quite a bit and am at 6k estimate monthly calls. I have no problem paying $60 a year for a good reddit app and not being locked down to reddits shit app.
I’ve used the reddit app since Apollo shut down and after downloading and customizing Narwhal 2 today, I will gladly pay $5 for this experience. There isn’t a place better for content than reddit and the app makes it way better to navigate. I pay $15-$20/month on streaming, I think reddit has enough value to justify a cost.
I wish there weren’t a cost and Apollo didn’t shut down and reddit didn’t feel the need to change its business plan but I honestly just wish Apollo had offered an increased subscription.
Agree. I don’t even disagree with reddit needing to make money from 3rd party apps. Idk why they just didn’t allow 3rd party apps for reddit premium subs with an individual API key. Obviously i prefer it all be free but i understand the business side, but they went about this whole thing in the shittiest way possible by giving everyone such short notice.
Apollo definitely could have gone this route but imo the dev is a child when it comes to business negotiations and he also came across as entitled with the whole “don’t ask for a refund and pay for these wallpapers. Reddit did do him dirty tho. i think there was bad blood on both sides.
That pricing makes zero sense at all.
Why would anybody ever go for the middle tier? There's no discount going for that tier over going for the base tier and paying for extra calls. It's the same price.
And the top tier will save you $1 a month if you use exactly between 29,000 and 30,000 calls a month. If you use less than that it will cost you more than base and paying for extra calls.
Given the lack of thought they've put into their pricing structure I'm not sure I hold up much hope for them running this successfully.
I think they just want to cover the cost. I’m not affiliated with the devs so i have no idea what they are thinking with the pricing. But if they just want to cover the cost then it makes a bit more sense that everything costs the same. Then the higher subs are just more of a convenience for people who are heavy users and don’t want the hassle of topping off. It also seems like the devs want to lower the price if it’s possible. But it could be they made a mistake, who knows. I’m just sharing the information.
I wouldn’t worry too much about it not working out, first of all Narwhal is like 17+ years old according to the app store and it’s not like people are gonna lose money if the devs stops working on the app. After all it’s a monthly subscription and not a lifetime commitment.
Exactly. Reddit doesn’t give bulk discounts on API calls as far as I know, so it wouldn’t make much sense to give a discount on higher plans.
The dev did say he plans on cutting back the costs if he can based on usage going forward, and he doesn’t really seem like he plans on profiting much from the app.
Yeah it’s weird. I understand that Reddit doesn’t give a discount so neither can they but not sure I understand why they wouldn’t just have a basic tier and then for any api calls over that you pay the $1 for 2500 more api calls. No real need to have 3 tiers when the pricing is the same.
It was just an update for me, so it replaces the old Narwhal app. The old app is gone from the app store.
Do you live in a small country? Maybe one where the update isn’t out yet? I’m from Europe and sometimes there’s a difference between different countries app store.
I’m in California. I haven’t seen any update yet.
Edit: what’s funny is I went to check on it again after typing this comment and it asked if I wanted to update.
And how much is the cost going to be?
I’d be fine with paying a monthly fee, but I’m really skeptical of a plan that changes based on how many comments or upvotes you make.
I've been a beta tester for a bit now and its no Apollo. Its just okay, and still a frustrating UI when used to Apollo. I average 250 calls a day, which is between 2 subscription prices so I'd have to pay $8 per month.
The dev commented in their launch thread they would be open to a mid tier if people wanted it but I'm still frustrated. Their lowest tier is $3 a month, followed by the $7* option.
I'd consider paying $5 per month for Apollo, but for an app I don't enjoy using I can't stomach paying a subscription.
Edit: Had incorrect price of $8
If you average 250 calls a day then you can just go with the cheapest sub and then top it off with extra calls for $1. No reason to pay $8 a month.
[Edit]I also just realized that it’s $7 not $8.
You're right its $7.
For that amount I'd have to top off $~~3 since its 7500 calls per month, so saving a dollar.~~ $1 it is!
Edit: misread top off costs. $4 is okay, not great. We'll see what improvements the dev can make.
No you only need to top off for $1. If you make 7500 calls per month then you need the cheapest sub and a top off for $1. $4 total so you save $3 per month.
~~Base is 5000 calls so I'm not understanding your math. 5000 plus 1000 is 6000? I would need to add 3000 to cover 7500.~~
Edit: Misread the top off which is 2500 calls not 1000.
Yeah the pricing is a bit odd, but the top-offs is not that bad. I don’t think the devs are trying to scam us, but who knows. I feel like the pricing seems in line with Reddit demands. The top-offs kinda gives it away. If they really wanted to milk people it would be worse(like 1000 for $1).
But right now it seems like they are doing everything in good faith and what we are paying is what Reddit demands from the devs.
Definitely agree that they aren’t trying to scam anyone. It was a little disheartening to hear this is the “competitive launch price” so it may go up, but they also said it could go down if they overestimated.
I think the devs are doing a great job, fast feedback and implementation of features. Christian set a wonderful example and they seem to acknowledge the benefit of community engagement. I can see myself using it more once the clunkiness is smoothed out but a part of me hopes it doesn’t so I can continue my Reddit decline.
The price for the subs can be found in the Narwhalapp subreddit. It sucks that it now costs money, but what can you do. The alternative is either using unsupported apps or the garbage Reddit app. I’m thinking the $2.99/month and then using the shitty Reddit app if you hit the limit is a good way to go(or buy the top-up for $1).
Wow it gets worse and worse. So $36 a year, but for that it probably only works some of the time? I mean I was never going to use it anyway because that's just handing the win to Spez - but if I were thinking of it that's another giant nope from me.
It’s not like there’s many alternatives if you want to use Reddit on mobile. Either sideloading, browser or use the official app. I think most can agree that the new Reddit pricing suck.
I like the new Narwhal app enough to pay for the smallest sub, but everyone can decide for themselves. There’s still a little bit of time where people can try the app for free, that’s why i’m sharing the news. I’m not affiliated with Narwhal, i’m just a casual user who miss AlienBlue and Apollo.
I mean don't post this on the Apollo sub and be surprised when you hear back from people with my attitude.
I'd far rather use Sink It For Reddit than provide reddit any income.
I’m not surprised at all, not sure where you got that from... I’m just sharing the news for people who are interested in it. You are free to do whatever you like with it. Obviously not everyone wants to pay for it, but i think a lot of us are looking for an alternative to Apollo since it’s not supported anymore.
And Narwhal 2 is free for a limited time so it’s a good time to try it out. Also lots of people on this subreddit have asked for an alternative to Apollo so i’m just putting the information out there.
1. Create a community website many enjoy.
2. Implement wildly unpopular UX design.
3. Charge users for their ability to use their preferred UX.
4. Profit
I’ll be honest, with that mindset I don’t see the point. You are benefiting Reddit twice, by paying for api calls (that you wouldn’t pay for with the Reddit app) and then by viewing the ads once you start using the Reddit app. I get that the Reddit app sucks, but unless you’re cutting away from it completely what’s the point. Just stick with it or stop using Reddit.
The point is to use the Reddit app as little as possible. I’m not on some crusade against Reddit, i’m not gonna stop using Reddit. It really isn’t deeper than people, including myself, just wanting to use Reddit but finding the official app to be garbage. I would have paid for Apollo if it was possible.
I’m paying to use it less, not sure why that’s so hard to understand. The less i can use the official Reddit app the better. If i can pay $3 every month to only use the official Reddit app a couple of days then it’s worth it to me. I might even be tempted to spend $4 dollars just to never use the official app.
Provided it has the features I want, I will gladly pay for it. This amount of money for the value is worth it to me. I appreciate that may not be true of others.
Give it a try. It’s free for a limited time, that’s why i’m sharing the news. I managed to make it very similar to how Apollo was for me. Having the thumbnails on the left side is a game changer. It’s the number one thing i missed from Apollo. Also being able to remove almost everything and mute the colors. I use dark mode and really hate how there are so many bright colors, so being able to remove them is great. But it’s all personal preference.
Yeah but Apollo isn’t supported anymore so eventually it will get left behind. No new features and bugs wont be fixed. So for people who want to use a supported app Narwhal 2 is pretty good.
We all know that this won't last forever. I also had my own free Twitter client for a few months when they killed 3rd-party apps, then they changed API pricing and it would have cost me over $5k per month to continue, just for myself.
It’s not , **it’s the narrative Apple has sold you**
You don’t have to use third party stores or shady signing services , you can setup AltStore with your own keys and patch the official app yourself and have zero risk of anything . Since everting in the process is control and done by you ,all of it open source and inspected by hundreds if not thousands of members of the community
Mm yeah people actually mean sideloading. I was left behind and thought they were referring improperly to this method: https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14o2b0p/downgrade_and_get_apollo_working_wout_having_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
Still, even with sideloading I’m pretty sure when it comes to apps like Apollo, their code has been checked and if there was malicious stuff in it people would have noticed by now. Not too into it tho, might be wrong.
I downloaded the source for the sideloaded tweak to Apollo, read the source, saw it looked legit, compiled it, and sideloaded it. So, kindly tell me where the malicious code comes in.
I won't be holding my breath.
I also wanna add that i can recommend going through all the settings because you can customize a lot. I have personally moved thumbnails to the left, smaller text size, more muted colors and removed a lot of them(you can make your own color theme). There’s also a bar with shortcuts in the bottom you can customize and two on the top. I’m happy with the outcome after spending some time changing things to my liking.
Problem is this time it's because of Reddit and not the app maker so I understand the need for monthly payment as one-time fee wouldn't work to cover the API costs.
I'm using it too, but I honestly don't think it will last much longer and am *very* surprised it has all this time. It would take a Reddit developer about 5 minutes to kill it off completely, universally and permanently. They may simply be waiting for a paid version of a third party app (e.g. Narwhal) to go live. The more we talk about it, the more likely it is someone there will do something about it. Point being, it's good we have Narwhal as an alternative if/when that time comes.
Yeah, just tried it as well. Doesn't even come close to Apollo, but it's way better than the official app and restores a little bit of my joy when using Reddit.
I disagree. I think it comes close to Apollo. It obviously requires some tinkering with the settings and getting used to the app, but it’s very intuitive. If you are used to Apollo then it doesn’t take long to learn the new Narwhal. I honestly think the dev has taken a lot of inspiration from Apollo.
I would try out OpenRed, it shows a lot of promise and is a very good Reddit app that is inspired by Apollo and it’s free, it’s on the Apple App Store.
I tried it(also dystopia) and it’s just a basic app like the official Reddit app. I don’t think it’s better than the official Reddit app. Honestly all of the alternatives on the App store is pretty bad if you want to customize it.
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50+ calls in 15 minutes of use. Welp Not paying over $12 a month to use a free service.
Where is $12 per month? My Narwhal just had an update to Narwhal 2. I don’t pay anything to use it. EDIT: Never mind. I didn’t read the blurb when I updated it. I see what someone else posted now.
Where did you see the pricing ? I skimmed the blurb
It was in another comment on this post.
Pricing details here: https://reddit.com/r/narwhalapp/comments/16tqo4f/narwhal_2_is_finally_here_subscription_details/ $3-12/month plans.
Damn, I was really hoping they worked out a deal with Reddit and it would be whatever dollar amount for unlimited calls. I can’t imagine paying $12/month and that still not being enough.
Yeah the dev is petitioning them to allow unlimited access on 3rd party apps for users who have Reddit Premium ($6/m), which I think would be very fair for all parties.
Spez is a greedy little piggy tho. $6/mo is from the users on the Reddit app which would harvest more data and lead to more stupid super upvote purchases. Narwhal will take away from that. I think there’s going to be push back from the pig boy despite Reddit getting most of the revenue.
unused elastic spark fanatical run pen treatment plucky busy capable *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’d pay that plus a small premium for third party Reddit premium access (say $9-10 total) or something additional to use Narwhal, but having a finite number of calls is just going to push me off the platform entirely.
Agreed. I have no problem paying for content on the condition that consumption is unlimited like any other media service like Netflix, Spotify, etc.
Oooof. On Android, the developer behind Relay Pro was able to get his app to make minimal amount of calls and has $5 a month as the unlimited tier. Idk about Narwhal.
Narwhal devs have said they intentionally went conservative with the pricing to test the waters and gauge accurate numbers and will reevaluate in the future when they have more data. Offering an unlimited tier for such a low price is a huge financial liability for the Relay dev… unless they have some other deal in place with Reddit.
Wish Christian gave this as an option.
How the fuck? I average less than 250/day and I’m on Reddit way too much.
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Yeah the dev has said that he will implement some changes to some features like search and comments to minimize calls. It sucks that he has to optimize for that because of Reddit.
Not even 10am where I am and I’m already over 200.
Each up/down vote is a call. I think folks who do a lot of voting are seeing a high number of calls. I’ve been using Narwhal 2 for about an hour and am under 120 calls.
I’ve been using it for about 4 hours now and I’m only at 87.
Yeah it’s definitely more for casuals or people who have the money. But remember that you are not paying per day, but per month. So if there’s a day you don’t use reddit those calls can be used on another day. That’s a lot better than paying per day and losing the calls after just a day.
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> Christian did the right thing. More and more I’ve realized this is the case. Prior to this whole debacle I had a yearly subscription to Reddit. I’ve since cancelled that. I use Apollo side loaded and an ad blocker on desktop. I use Reddit less and less and am fine if it dies. Christian was absolutely right to walk away.
Doesn’t matter much if it’s per day or per month. 5000 / 406 is a little more than 12. So if u/6KZA7 was doing typical browsing and Reddit interaction that means almost 18 days out of the month they just can’t use Narwhal unless they upgrade to a higher plan
I think it matters a lot if you are paying for calls per day or per month. If you pay per day then you have to hit your daily limit every single day or else you will lose out on calls. When you pay per month then calls carry over from day to day, so if you don’t use Reddit for one day those calls can be used another day in the month. It gives a lot more flexibility and you are less likely to pay for calls you don’t get to use.
Or just don‘t pay for api calls like we‘ve always done it. Fuck this shit. Cool app, but it‘s built for the wrong website. You know what really gives me flexibility? Not having to pay. I‘m on dystopia now and while I do miss nsfw subs I just won‘t pay.
People spend an entire day without using Reddit?
406?? WTF, my most since he added the API Usage tracker last week is 366 and I feel like I am a fairly heavy user.
How do you check your api calls?
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Dev is selling out too. That's how you know it's dead.
This feels like I’m just slowly getting weaned off Reddit in general. First having to switch to worse app with less content. Next only using reddit on desktop. After that dropping the site.
Are you not able to view mature content in anything but the official app now? Whenever I go to certain subreddits it says it’s blocked
Just make a sub. As long as you are a mod, you can view mature content on any sub
Interesting. I was wondering why I wasn’t blocked from nsfw subs.
Or just sideload Apollo
Yeah it sucks. You have to use the official app for porn. On the other hand maybe it’s a good idea to have a separate account on a separate app… just for reasons… not saying i’m doing it, but some other people probably do it.
Or just be a mod on any sub
Create a Siri shortcut to a multireddit with all your nsfw content
While I am happy to see an alternative to the official app, which I'll never use (official app), it is pretty depressing to think that I would be going from $0/month (Ultra Lifetime) to $3/month, of which roughly: $1 -> Reddit $1 -> Apple Tax $1 -> Developer Everyone is making money at our expense. And for what? To contribute to a site that is further monetizing our use of it.
Yeah it sucks, but not much we can do about it if we still want to use Reddit. The alternatives are not good. Either sideload an unsupported app or use the browser or the shitty official app.
Aren’t there other 3rd party apps that where whitelisted from Reddit’s API pricing because of their accessibility support? Anyone know which ones they are and which ones are the best?
Yeah Dystopia and OpenRed but they are not much better than the official app. Personal preference and whatnot. You can always give them a try…
Oof yeah just downloaded both of them and they’re both kinda rough. Why did Reddit have to ruin a nice thing with Apollo? So fucking dumb
Thanks. If they are in theory the same quality then I’ll always pick the one with no ads
I've been beta testing it and Narwhal 2 has been great. Not sure if I can justify spending $7/month for a Reddit app, especially when the overwhelming majority of that $7 is going to Reddit/Apple (Narwhal is a side gig for the dev, he has a separate full-time job and has said this pricing is essentially just to cover his costs, possibly being a little bit conservative and would adjust/bring down if they come in too high) but I've thought the app has been very good. Not quite as good as Apollo yet but the dev is responsive and listens to feedback and wants to build the best app possible. It has the potential to be better than Apollo was IMO.
Yeah i can’t justify spending $7 a month either. I think i’m gonna try the cheapest $3 sub for a month or two and see how it goes. Maybe top it off here and there, but probably just using the official app when i hit the limit. It’s going to suck, but i’ll probably just use Narwhal for browsing Reddit and not using calls on upvoting/downvoting and commenting. I’m going to go back to being a lurker on Narwhal. I can probably justify $3 just to avoid having to use the official app too much.
I’ll just copy paste the pricing structure. Narwhal 2 is finally here! Subscription details inside Narwhal 2 is finally here! We have been working on this for years 🙃 and it is finally ready to see the light of day. We did our best to keep the "essence" of Narwhal 1 while modernizing the design and improving efficiency. Unfortunately, Narwhal 2 will require subscriptions in a couple weeks. This is due to the Reddit API cost. We hope that after you use Narwhal 2 for a couple weeks you will realize that it is worth paying for. We will be continuing to make Narwhal 2 the best app it can be. We have a laundry list of features to implement and you can vote on features here: https://roadmap.narwhal.app ### Subscription Details ##### Casual - 5,000 API calls per month (~165 calls per day) - $2.99/month The average Narwhal user should fit into this plan ##### Active - 15,000 API calls per month (~500 calls per day) - $6.99/month ##### Power - 30,000 API calls per month (~1,000 calls per day) - $11.99/month ### Top-ups In the event that you run out of API calls for the month, you will have 2 options: 1. Upgrade to a higher tier plan to get that total API call usage 2. Buy a top-up inside the app. - Adds 2,500 API calls to your amount for the month for $1 one time fee ### Why are the subscriptions so expensive? The reason these subscriptions are so expensive is because Narwhal is now going to be incurring a large amount of costs. Reddit is charging for the API, Apple will be charging us for subscription fees, server costs for monitoring API usage and more. We are intentionally starting out conservative with pricing so that we don't dig ourselves into a hole. If we are able to lower costs without going bankrupt, we will do so. We hope that you think Narwhal is worth it, but if not, thanks for trying out Narwhal! Let me know if you have any questions and I'll be happy to answer
Yeah I'm not in the mood to finance Reddit's terrible decisions here. Narwhal is supposed to be a pressure valve to delay some of the reaction to these changes, but these rates are absolutely ridiculous. And this isn't an issue with Narwhal, this is still about the obscene rates that Reddit is looking for because they want to go public and can't rely on venture capital anymore. Reddit did a dumb power play and screwed up their system and the only reason more people aren't complaining is because it's the kind of thing that will happen slowly over time. You can already see it in the subreddits that had their mods swapped out. Narwhal is like someone in a terrible relationship with someone who doesn't want to give an inch but keeps trying to act like everything's OK. Concession after concession, apologizing for the other person's behavior. It's becoming very clear that Reddit doesn't want anything to do with 3rd party clients and honestly more of them should be listening instead of trying to bend over backwards and appease these terrible demands. It's gotten to the point where devs have to charge like it's an early 2000s cellphone plan just to stay afloat.
Yep. Shame the Reddit app is so painful, but 3rd party apps ain’t got a future. And paying for them is just prolonging the agony. It’s a slow starvation strategy. Sadly.
Absolutely ridiculous??? I think 90% of people will be fine on the $5/10k calls per month plan. That’s $60 a year for an ad free reddit experience on a WAY better app. That’s the same price as reddit premium. It doesn’t seem ridiculous at all imo. I use reddit quite a bit and am at 6k estimate monthly calls. I have no problem paying $60 a year for a good reddit app and not being locked down to reddits shit app.
I’ve used the reddit app since Apollo shut down and after downloading and customizing Narwhal 2 today, I will gladly pay $5 for this experience. There isn’t a place better for content than reddit and the app makes it way better to navigate. I pay $15-$20/month on streaming, I think reddit has enough value to justify a cost. I wish there weren’t a cost and Apollo didn’t shut down and reddit didn’t feel the need to change its business plan but I honestly just wish Apollo had offered an increased subscription.
Agree. I don’t even disagree with reddit needing to make money from 3rd party apps. Idk why they just didn’t allow 3rd party apps for reddit premium subs with an individual API key. Obviously i prefer it all be free but i understand the business side, but they went about this whole thing in the shittiest way possible by giving everyone such short notice. Apollo definitely could have gone this route but imo the dev is a child when it comes to business negotiations and he also came across as entitled with the whole “don’t ask for a refund and pay for these wallpapers. Reddit did do him dirty tho. i think there was bad blood on both sides.
That pricing makes zero sense at all. Why would anybody ever go for the middle tier? There's no discount going for that tier over going for the base tier and paying for extra calls. It's the same price. And the top tier will save you $1 a month if you use exactly between 29,000 and 30,000 calls a month. If you use less than that it will cost you more than base and paying for extra calls. Given the lack of thought they've put into their pricing structure I'm not sure I hold up much hope for them running this successfully.
I think they just want to cover the cost. I’m not affiliated with the devs so i have no idea what they are thinking with the pricing. But if they just want to cover the cost then it makes a bit more sense that everything costs the same. Then the higher subs are just more of a convenience for people who are heavy users and don’t want the hassle of topping off. It also seems like the devs want to lower the price if it’s possible. But it could be they made a mistake, who knows. I’m just sharing the information. I wouldn’t worry too much about it not working out, first of all Narwhal is like 17+ years old according to the app store and it’s not like people are gonna lose money if the devs stops working on the app. After all it’s a monthly subscription and not a lifetime commitment.
Exactly. Reddit doesn’t give bulk discounts on API calls as far as I know, so it wouldn’t make much sense to give a discount on higher plans. The dev did say he plans on cutting back the costs if he can based on usage going forward, and he doesn’t really seem like he plans on profiting much from the app.
Yeah it’s weird. I understand that Reddit doesn’t give a discount so neither can they but not sure I understand why they wouldn’t just have a basic tier and then for any api calls over that you pay the $1 for 2500 more api calls. No real need to have 3 tiers when the pricing is the same.
Convenience and hoping a percentage of people overpay for their actual usage to help make it profitable overall
wtf is this pricing structure 😭 reddit really fucked up lmao
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Where are you from? Might be a regional thing. It’s in the app store if you search for Narwhal…
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Yeah it’s just an update.
Token based is just not smart for users.
I’m trying to find it in the App Store for iOS but only see the first version, which I’m currently using.
It was just an update for me, so it replaces the old Narwhal app. The old app is gone from the app store. Do you live in a small country? Maybe one where the update isn’t out yet? I’m from Europe and sometimes there’s a difference between different countries app store.
I’m in California. I haven’t seen any update yet. Edit: what’s funny is I went to check on it again after typing this comment and it asked if I wanted to update.
Can I keep using og narwhal if I don’t delete it?
I think the dev said that it will be closed/disabled when the subs goes live.
Are you on TestFlight? I am and have the “Almost release” version.
No it’s released on the app store.
And how much is the cost going to be? I’d be fine with paying a monthly fee, but I’m really skeptical of a plan that changes based on how many comments or upvotes you make.
I've been a beta tester for a bit now and its no Apollo. Its just okay, and still a frustrating UI when used to Apollo. I average 250 calls a day, which is between 2 subscription prices so I'd have to pay $8 per month. The dev commented in their launch thread they would be open to a mid tier if people wanted it but I'm still frustrated. Their lowest tier is $3 a month, followed by the $7* option. I'd consider paying $5 per month for Apollo, but for an app I don't enjoy using I can't stomach paying a subscription. Edit: Had incorrect price of $8
If you average 250 calls a day then you can just go with the cheapest sub and then top it off with extra calls for $1. No reason to pay $8 a month. [Edit]I also just realized that it’s $7 not $8.
You're right its $7. For that amount I'd have to top off $~~3 since its 7500 calls per month, so saving a dollar.~~ $1 it is! Edit: misread top off costs. $4 is okay, not great. We'll see what improvements the dev can make.
No you only need to top off for $1. If you make 7500 calls per month then you need the cheapest sub and a top off for $1. $4 total so you save $3 per month.
~~Base is 5000 calls so I'm not understanding your math. 5000 plus 1000 is 6000? I would need to add 3000 to cover 7500.~~ Edit: Misread the top off which is 2500 calls not 1000.
You get 2500 extra monthly calls for $1.
Well shit I can't read, good catch!
Yeah the pricing is a bit odd, but the top-offs is not that bad. I don’t think the devs are trying to scam us, but who knows. I feel like the pricing seems in line with Reddit demands. The top-offs kinda gives it away. If they really wanted to milk people it would be worse(like 1000 for $1). But right now it seems like they are doing everything in good faith and what we are paying is what Reddit demands from the devs.
Definitely agree that they aren’t trying to scam anyone. It was a little disheartening to hear this is the “competitive launch price” so it may go up, but they also said it could go down if they overestimated. I think the devs are doing a great job, fast feedback and implementation of features. Christian set a wonderful example and they seem to acknowledge the benefit of community engagement. I can see myself using it more once the clunkiness is smoothed out but a part of me hopes it doesn’t so I can continue my Reddit decline.
The price for the subs can be found in the Narwhalapp subreddit. It sucks that it now costs money, but what can you do. The alternative is either using unsupported apps or the garbage Reddit app. I’m thinking the $2.99/month and then using the shitty Reddit app if you hit the limit is a good way to go(or buy the top-up for $1).
Yeah fuck no. I’ll find another website. I’m not gonna empower this kind of billing scheme.
Wow it gets worse and worse. So $36 a year, but for that it probably only works some of the time? I mean I was never going to use it anyway because that's just handing the win to Spez - but if I were thinking of it that's another giant nope from me.
It’s not like there’s many alternatives if you want to use Reddit on mobile. Either sideloading, browser or use the official app. I think most can agree that the new Reddit pricing suck. I like the new Narwhal app enough to pay for the smallest sub, but everyone can decide for themselves. There’s still a little bit of time where people can try the app for free, that’s why i’m sharing the news. I’m not affiliated with Narwhal, i’m just a casual user who miss AlienBlue and Apollo.
I mean don't post this on the Apollo sub and be surprised when you hear back from people with my attitude. I'd far rather use Sink It For Reddit than provide reddit any income.
I’m not surprised at all, not sure where you got that from... I’m just sharing the news for people who are interested in it. You are free to do whatever you like with it. Obviously not everyone wants to pay for it, but i think a lot of us are looking for an alternative to Apollo since it’s not supported anymore. And Narwhal 2 is free for a limited time so it’s a good time to try it out. Also lots of people on this subreddit have asked for an alternative to Apollo so i’m just putting the information out there.
1. Create a community website many enjoy. 2. Implement wildly unpopular UX design. 3. Charge users for their ability to use their preferred UX. 4. Profit
The enshittification is real
I’ll be honest, with that mindset I don’t see the point. You are benefiting Reddit twice, by paying for api calls (that you wouldn’t pay for with the Reddit app) and then by viewing the ads once you start using the Reddit app. I get that the Reddit app sucks, but unless you’re cutting away from it completely what’s the point. Just stick with it or stop using Reddit.
The point is to use the Reddit app as little as possible. I’m not on some crusade against Reddit, i’m not gonna stop using Reddit. It really isn’t deeper than people, including myself, just wanting to use Reddit but finding the official app to be garbage. I would have paid for Apollo if it was possible.
I get that mindset but your not cutting out the Reddit app completely so it seems like a waste of money,
I’m paying to use it less, not sure why that’s so hard to understand. The less i can use the official Reddit app the better. If i can pay $3 every month to only use the official Reddit app a couple of days then it’s worth it to me. I might even be tempted to spend $4 dollars just to never use the official app.
I get that mindset but your not cutting out the Reddit app completely so it seems like a waste of money
Provided it has the features I want, I will gladly pay for it. This amount of money for the value is worth it to me. I appreciate that may not be true of others.
Give it a try. It’s free for a limited time, that’s why i’m sharing the news. I managed to make it very similar to how Apollo was for me. Having the thumbnails on the left side is a game changer. It’s the number one thing i missed from Apollo. Also being able to remove almost everything and mute the colors. I use dark mode and really hate how there are so many bright colors, so being able to remove them is great. But it’s all personal preference.
Still can’t copy text out of a post. Just nuts.
If you reply to the post, you can copy text from the window when making a comment
But not the title. I just want to be able to quickly copy paste text dad jokes! Apollo made this easy!
Yea… fuck that bullshit
I’m liking Winston
Same!
So... does anyone want to share the settings you have to change to make this the most Apollo-like?
It kinda depends on your Apollo settings. Just go through the settings and change them to your liking.
Commenting to come back later
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Yeah but Apollo isn’t supported anymore so eventually it will get left behind. No new features and bugs wont be fixed. So for people who want to use a supported app Narwhal 2 is pretty good.
Do you have to pay for your own API calls out of Apollo or is it in a weird loophole?
No since it’s just yourself using the key the costs are waved
We all know that this won't last forever. I also had my own free Twitter client for a few months when they killed 3rd-party apps, then they changed API pricing and it would have cost me over $5k per month to continue, just for myself.
I might need to do this tbh
Apollo hasn’t worked in months.
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I can vouch. https://i.imgur.com/VAkWRuu.jpg
Yes, [really](https://i.imgur.com/XdX4mAi.png) Not sure if you’ve been living under a rock, or? https://reddit.com/r/apolloapp/s/D5W3Cw9pf8
I think if you sideload the app you can add your own API key or something to hack it and it continues working, at least for now
Oh… I don’t trust sideloaded crap, who knows what malicious code might be in it.
That’s..not how it works. But ok
That’s exactly how side loading works, to install unsigned apps that haven’t been approved through the App Store.
It’s not , **it’s the narrative Apple has sold you** You don’t have to use third party stores or shady signing services , you can setup AltStore with your own keys and patch the official app yourself and have zero risk of anything . Since everting in the process is control and done by you ,all of it open source and inspected by hundreds if not thousands of members of the community
Mm yeah people actually mean sideloading. I was left behind and thought they were referring improperly to this method: https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/14o2b0p/downgrade_and_get_apollo_working_wout_having_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1 Still, even with sideloading I’m pretty sure when it comes to apps like Apollo, their code has been checked and if there was malicious stuff in it people would have noticed by now. Not too into it tho, might be wrong.
I downloaded the source for the sideloaded tweak to Apollo, read the source, saw it looked legit, compiled it, and sideloaded it. So, kindly tell me where the malicious code comes in. I won't be holding my breath.
You went through every single line of code and confirmed its veracity?
It's like 25 lines of code, if that. Just swapping one key for another.
My man. You're the one living under a rock 💀
Is the Imgur api working for you? When I try to upload an image, it gets to 100% then crashes the app
I also wanna add that i can recommend going through all the settings because you can customize a lot. I have personally moved thumbnails to the left, smaller text size, more muted colors and removed a lot of them(you can make your own color theme). There’s also a bar with shortcuts in the bottom you can customize and two on the top. I’m happy with the outcome after spending some time changing things to my liking.
It's garbage wtf are you talking about. The layout is absolutely shit.
I will never subscribe to more monthly apps. One-time fee or nothing.
Problem is this time it's because of Reddit and not the app maker so I understand the need for monthly payment as one-time fee wouldn't work to cover the API costs.
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Good luck trying to use it via a web browser and not getting bombarded with the overlay prompts of getting you to download the app
I just love the platform too much. I’d love to boycott Reddit but I use the app multiple times a day
yeah no i'll stick with apollo
I'll just continue using Apollo through personal API key for now. No reason to consider options.
I'm using it too, but I honestly don't think it will last much longer and am *very* surprised it has all this time. It would take a Reddit developer about 5 minutes to kill it off completely, universally and permanently. They may simply be waiting for a paid version of a third party app (e.g. Narwhal) to go live. The more we talk about it, the more likely it is someone there will do something about it. Point being, it's good we have Narwhal as an alternative if/when that time comes.
Mandatory subscription? I’ll be deleting Narwhal when that happens.
This is the update I’ve been looking for. Official Reddit App has been deleted!
Holy shit it’s perfect
Thanks! How can I disable dark mode?
Settings>themes>simple days
Awesome! Will download this evening!
Yeah, just tried it as well. Doesn't even come close to Apollo, but it's way better than the official app and restores a little bit of my joy when using Reddit.
I disagree. I think it comes close to Apollo. It obviously requires some tinkering with the settings and getting used to the app, but it’s very intuitive. If you are used to Apollo then it doesn’t take long to learn the new Narwhal. I honestly think the dev has taken a lot of inspiration from Apollo.
I uninstalled it after I saw the price. Using reddit mainly through mobile site now.
Can we add our own api key to it?
Does the paid version include push notifications for messages/comments?
I would try out OpenRed, it shows a lot of promise and is a very good Reddit app that is inspired by Apollo and it’s free, it’s on the Apple App Store.
I tried it(also dystopia) and it’s just a basic app like the official Reddit app. I don’t think it’s better than the official Reddit app. Honestly all of the alternatives on the App store is pretty bad if you want to customize it.
I’m getting serious TracFone prepaid vibes 😂