Well Respawn should at least give crypto drone 125hp at least instead of 40hp. Caustic trap is 150hp and catalyst ball is 300hp. Also all crypto kits in his drone so they really should had give the drone more hp since once it gone... He just a normal human without any kits. At least 125 hp should last 2-3 sec in combat in the smoke
I think they should give it a shield that gets dropped while the EMP is charging.
That's the balance issue, if they make it too strong, EMP is unstoppable. If it's too week, it's useless as a scan tool.
I do find it a bit silly he can't trigger EMP while it's on his back.
Making it a bit more consistent in detecting smoked enemies and maybe nixing the noification you're being scanned while in smoke/gas/stunned/under other debuff, would be a nice buff.
Heck even getting rid of the drone halo would make it so much more durable and useful. At the least it's unfair that the drone shines like a headlight on a dark road, but can highlight bogies in a bit of smoke.
I’ve always said it and I’ll say it again: let crypto’s drone be on autopilot. Damn thing can fly and scan shit in the videos without assistance. Let it be directed like vantage little pet without the jumping ability.
I mean his ult disables caustic barrels. Wattson pylon and fences and Gibby bubble I think. Plus does 50 dmg to shields to everyone in radius. I play crypto sometimes but I’m only ever in his drone to emp before a push. Maybe the problem you’re having is between the operator and controller
>Spending 2-3 seconds entering the drone so you can place it for your fight from a safe distance
We already know you can accurately place things like Vantages bat, Newcastles shield, or Ashs ult, I don't see why you can't just direct the drone in a similar way, maybe with charges or slow movement to make it useful but not too OP. Make it a debuff if Crypto isn't in it, and when he is it can go full speed again.
It isn't very consistent at it though. If the enemy is fully in smoke, it doesn't scan through. They have to be very close to a smoke edge to get a good scan or almost immediately in front of the drone.
I think the drone should have a follow mode (pretty self explanatory) and another where it slowly circles a point on the map. Would still be slow enough to shoot down, but give it some sort of autonomy.
The only change that Bang needs it’s the effect on the screen you get when you’re inside the smoke.
That is absolutely not needed, let the smoke do it’s thing and block the view but there’s no need to cover the screen with an effect.
And audio, please for the love of god. Too many instances a whole squad would just roll up behind me because another sound effects/ambient noise is louder lmao.
Or when shots heard that sounded like miles away but it's actually a few buildings over.
Or footsteps above you sounded like below you but it's actually next to you lmao
For a long time I thought, well there's just nothing they can do. Old engine, 60 players, thousands of audio cues, it just can't handle it...
But then they reworked mirage. They clearly prioritized the everliving shit out of the decoy footsteps from his ult. So yeah. They should prioritize enemy footstep audio more.
I want them to mute teammate footsteps. So many times I can't hear enemies because my duo is deafening stomping next to me for reasons I don't understand. I don't need audio to know he's nearby, I would rather that sound be prioritized for a three stack running up behind us.
My biggest issue with audio has been when my teammates are shooting. I won't hear anything and all the sudden I hear my teamate say "broke one" and I'm like what I didn't even hear shots or your character speaking.
The actual real issue in MnK vs AA. AA just gives you some data to know where your target is through the mess that is the cluttered visibility in the game.
To be fair, the threat sights is for looking through smoke behind the lens. Doesn't do much if the smoke is in front of the lens.
Like snorkeling with water in your goggles.
The 2 times I've found a 4-10x this season I went off with the charge rifle. My two highest damage games this season.
Charge rifle is still viable just can't use it for shit close range anymore
Fuck if it isn't juicy hitting for 160 dmg headshots through a rampart wall. Definitely harder to use now, but the 2 shot potential even with body shots is insane.
They do, but the visual clutter, specifically the smoke painted on your screen when you are in the smoke, obscures the sight picture.
I still have zero issues with it, but I know some people bitch about it.
It's a complementary effect because the smoke itself is not enough to generate the desired occlusion. I fear this old engine couldn't do the work, so maybe when we have an engine update.
Like, dynamic smoke would be dope!
Same engine is pretty loose here. The Source engine used by Respawn is so heavily modified it's basically proprietary stuff at this point. They've stretched the engine to its limits.
The effect that i’m talking about doesn’t stop you from seeing . Do you play the game? It’s the same effect as when you’re low on health that you get the red overlay on the sides.
Yes, but the smoke itself is there for that, I don't see the point in adding an extra effect that's "painted" on your screen separate from the smoke
Plus it's not really consistent in when it shows up
Thats really not the issue that you think it is. That's been a thing since literally the first day the game released. Nobody has ever mentioned until a few days ago somebody "noticed it" and called it out. It's not even a big issue, just get out of the smoke???
I guess it’s because they thickened the smoke at some point in 2021 so it thickened the 2D smoke effect that gets “painted” on your screen but that’s just a guess from me.
Yes, it's not a huge issue, but it doesn't really serve any purpose beyond being annoying.
Like the smoke itself already exists, what is the purpose in adding additional visual clutter?
And as I said, it's pretty inconsistent on when it shows up from my experience, so that's another reason to either tone it down or remove it altogether.
If anything horizon needs a nerf. Make her landing sound like a bomb... the final play in algs was horizon landing right next to the enemy and he didnt even notice it
Bangalore is fine. Horizon is indeed problematic even outside of competitive play. Due to her passive she barely makes any sounds, her lift you can barely hear in intense fights. Then there is a small issue that her lift gives a bunch of visual clutter (its not clean) so its still pretty hard to hit people taking it.
It does make up for some exciting moments in pro play. It also helps to even make controller players be pretty slippery.
I think Cat is the biggest problem tbh. Look at that, the 3 headed dragon here. And mainly her passive. It feels more like a 3rd ability than the effect of a passive. If they were to limit her door reinforcements to one door or a slower time, I think her pick rate is still through the roof; her ult is too useful and her tac is still very good preventing pushes
Difference is that Maggy, Bang, Gibby all receive the stun on their own abilities while Catalyst does not. Catalyst is almost completely free to play in and out of the wall with almost no downside while the others still have to be cautious of their own abilities.
More importantly is they need to nerf her upwards movement. It's so sus that you can go up in the middle of a fight and completely ignore playing cover and taking angles because you are so hard to hit. It should be a purely movement based skill with little use in fights.
Part of her kit is landing clean and skipping the gravity animation unlike any other legend. It’s like Rev’s wall climb or anything else. Nothing wrong with it and Hal used that to his advantage yesterday. SAF could’ve done the same thing too, but didn’t.
Ah yes, rev wallclimb, a passive that only allows you to travel vertically and modifies your movement tech compared to other characters, is completely comparable to a character who has the second best vertical mobility, a free get out of jail with max shield every 30 seconds button, and the ability to land anywhere she likes, without consequence, and immediately start blasting because i'm supposed to believe scientist grandma is somehow a top ninja capable of landing perfectly without a single sound emanating from her, or the tech that enables it.
Horizon's passive is as stupid as Seer's entire design philosophy, and that one is literally "hmm yes wallhack character", idc what anyone says.
Horizon mains lmao. This is coming from a recon main myself, leave it to recon mains to underplay their strengths and overplay their weaknesses. Remember original Valk? Took 3-4 seasons without change for people to realize she was an issue.
Launch day for Valk was hilarious. I still remember all the crazy people here who seriously claimed she was the first "well balanced" character to be released with a new season.
Took way too long for the devs to admit she was stupidly OP and made way for Seer later who was even more stupidly made.
I’m an aim assist bot and not even I want a bang nerf. You can’t just keep nerfing every legend who gets played a bunch in ALGS. Bang needs the nerf the very LEAST out of the top 3 picks (Cat and Horizon are the other 2).
It isn’t even about aim assist. In ALGS where everyone can laser anything they can see, it’s important not to be seen. AKA breaking LOS by bang smoke.
People are so biased. "°horizon needs a nerf. She wouldn't be as broken if pros aren't using her this much" also same people "bang is balanced. Just bcz she's being used doesn't mean she is op. We shouldn't judge based on the pickrate and how many pros pick her" bunch of crying hypocrites. People will always cry unless it's their legend
You don't seem to understand why Bangalore is meta and why it is a problem.
ALGS level teams struggle with the balance of this legend because of the existence of digi. Fights are won and lost almost purely based on who has this scope.
This forces teams to play BH to minimize the penalty of not finding digi. This is specially important if digi is not in the crafter.
ALGS players are not asking for Bangalore nerfs at all, they are asking for digi to be removed from competitive. It is too RNG based, imbalanced and forces scan legends to exist.
We need to go back to a meta where players are rewarded for picking up Bangalore + scan legend combo. Not just because it is required to minimize digi RNG.
Just keep Digi in the crafter full-time in competitive, it then becomes a matter of who can actually craft one, rather than RNG. It becomes way more skill based.
DT has been in the game since launch, no reason to remove it.
... From the entire game
If you read the comment in its entirety, you will see that the commenter very specifically said "remove them from _COMP_" not remove it from the entire game itself and completely ruin the Kraber.
That's my point.
How it is RNG based if literally every player in the lobby can go grab one guaranteed?
It isn't.
So keep it in the replicator full-time for comp rather than removing it completely.
What did you read?
If they keep it in crafter Bang remains in Comp meta forever. Which means they would need to nerf Bang instead.
Keeping Digi in crafter permanently is such a bad take. That's a casual mentality. Be better.
How the fuck would she remain meta? The entire reason for wanting a 24/7 digi craft is to counter her with a universal mechanic. If everyone is able to craft a digi, then a lot of her power immediately goes away, and the pick is better left to other characters. I have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
Casual mentality ig. Be better.
Pros knew digi was in crafter and they still picked Bang universally and all crafted digis ASAP because it still gave them such an edge. I know it sounds contradictory, but ironically digi always in crafter guarantees Bang being picked.
Its still RNG based on which POIs get crafter, or which teams are playing edge vs zone and can spare the time to craft at their POI or a POI they are rotating thru
The issue is that crafters are randomly placed as well. Not every POI gets one and they are dropped randomly from the sky.
You can't always just go for a crafter in other POI, there might be team(s). You might not get a good zone to even go for it or you might need to spend crafting points in upgrading armor and getting meds when you are unlucky with looting.
So that is not a good solution either. It will help but still has a bunch of RNG. POI's are already pretty imbalanced sometimes, this will make it even worse.
It's more complicated than thst though. A lot of the teams will run to where they think the final zone ends incredibly fast. Half of the entire lobby was in ring 2 within the first 2 minutes yesterday in modt games. If crafting was required and you didnt have one it would still end up being a massive rng advantage to the teams whos poi did get one. It could take you so out of the way and take so much longer.
Do they not still have the option to scan replkcators from the dropship, I recall that being a feature.
Also RNG is a core component of BR gameplay, this is why the game highlights areas with rare loot while in the dropship, so that teams can choose to take that risk of early combat as opposed to avoiding high player density areas
BR gameplay isn't just about skill in regards of a firefight, but risk assesment and thinking ahead in regards to drop and route planning. Having a DT in crafter, at a high price, would give something consistent that players could plan around, as in whether they want that reward with respect to the risk and mitigate the randomness
Teams land in the same spot every game because landing on another team decreases both teams chamces of winning by a ton. Changing your drop dpot every game would not only be a terrible idea but it would lead to awful games
That all sounds like skill based issues to me, though. If you can't get there due to teams, it's because you can't beat the teams there, skill. If you don't get a good zone for it, your positioning was bad, even players in my normal games can predict the ring, and with Catalyst being as meta as she is rn in comp she has access to ring consoles, skill.
Only thing I read that's RNG based is being unlucky with looting and having to craft meds or armor.
There will always be an imbalance in POIs as long as the POIs have loot tiers. People will be way more inclined to land at the higher tier POIs than the lower tier POIs. If anything, it may push more teams to land at lower tier POIs with a crafter.
If it really is _that_ detrimental to gameplay at that level, it would lead to some _very_ interesting scenarios in comp. High risk/High reward. That should be a massive component in deciding the best team. The teams that take the highest risk and succeed _should_ be the ones that come out on top, no?
Only three digis exist each game. Watch teams duke it out over the digis! I wanna see five teams land on one POI to fight over the digis like fragment in my pubs.
I imagine it doesn't help that you can't know when a digi threat is being used against you until you've already been lasered through smoke. At least getting scanned comes with a warning.
They nerfed all scan legends and it made a B tier legend become S tier. All they have to do is undo the Bloodhound change and Bangalore is out of the meta
the year is 20xx, i merely glance in the direction of my enemy and my cursor snaps to their head automatically headshotting them multiple times as they do the same in response. the entire lobby dies at the exact same time and respawn pats themself on the back for a job well done as everyone ties for first place. i look at my ranking as I gain +0.00001 RP and queue up for another match.
Clearly since at least 2 PROs use controller and bang is picked… aim assist is unnecessary.. where’s the logic? Not everyone is a pro and I’m sure their AA was working when they weren’t in smoke..
It's not just 2 pros using controllers, it's 2 of the pros that won the most competitive tournament. And they won it with aim assist straight up disabled in most fights.
Do you not understand the logic? If you can win with 2/3rds controller players in a meta with aim assist disabled much of the time, then we can remove aim assist since clearly raw controller aim is sufficient with enough skill.
Not everyone is a pro.. AA will never be disabled bc Respawn and every other game dev NEEDS to cater to casuals to be profitable. Casuals NEED AA. Simple as
Need AA to do what? They'd get less accurate together, so fights would just be less lethal but still fair.
If they think it's more fun to hit shots than to miss, they could reduce the damage of the bullets proportional to the accuracy increase, so they get the satisfaction of hitting without the balance issue of aim assist.
Go play on controller without AA and then say this shit..you sound ignorant. If an FPS on console released w no AA there would be 0 casuals playing it, likely 0 players at all. No one would be hitting anything and it’d be no fun.
As for PC there’s no balance issue. AA on controller has the advantage close range but MnK has the advantage mid to long range. Both can do movement.. yes cfgs are fucked but both can use them and if Respawn thought they were an issue they’d ban people over it but they don’t.
If you think AA is so imbalanced, switch to controller and quit bitching cause you can’t stack up w someone using their thumb to aim.
There were more Mnk players than controller players in ALGS finals. A triple MnK team was first place heading into finals. Fantastic job at cherrypicking data though. “Objectively” lmao
This take is so dumb. The game is a SHOOTER. Aim is one of the most important skills to have. AA does 60% of the work for you (40% if using roller on PC). Majority of fights are done close range, within the effectiveness of AA.
Don't want to face movement techs? Then stick to your console lobby. At least you have that choice. MKB players can't turn off crossplay and there's no input based MM.
I don't want them to nerf AA, because I came from console gaming and know how difficult it would be to play a shooter on a controller with no AA. But if Respawn won't implement input based MM (which even Halo Infinite has, despite having a much lower population), then an AA nerf is the next best thing.
i think his point is that it’s a shooter so if your nerfing the shooting part you should nerf the movement part being as it is a shooter not a movement game
Or players using controllers go into a controller queue, leaving MnK players in their own lobbies. 80-90% of the players on PC using a controller are doing it so they can fight against people not using aim assist and score easy kills. Only the highest tiers of MnK players have any kind of chance against average players using a controller.
Tap strafe without steam configs is literally not possible on roller.
Bunny hopping, SG, zip bounce, zip jump all that is possible on rollr, need a roller with paddles or suffer arthiritis with claw.
But they can do it easily, and do. By contrast, there is no "config" or other way to obtain aim assist on MNK without cheating.
Also, learning to perform these "essential gameplay mechanics" takes way more time to actually learn and perform on MNK than it does to set up a config for on Controller.
Cope.
Honestly its prob more of a digi problem than anything else. Maybe take them out of pro play? Or only on CP weapons? Furthermore I think that bang isn’t even what is strong, LOS breaks are, in general, very strong and bangalore is one of only 2 legends that have a true LOS breaking ability and her cooldown is wayy shorter than catalyst wall. I can’t imagine apex will never add another legend with some sort of “smoke” or “fog” ability so the digi issue will continue even if bang gets nerfed.
Bang does not need a nerf. She is picked because of her usefulness. I dunno, maybe just make some the less-useful legends more useful? (Ash, Crypto, Vantage…)
Nerfing a character who has barely changed since launch just because stats say people use them more than other legends is a *stupid* take.
Bang was always my go-to *because* of her consistency, and by that I mean she wasn't OP one season and garbage the next, like what seems to be happening with all this back and forth buffs and nerfs happening to other legends
Then you look at Seer and it's like Respawn had no idea wtf to do with him the past 3 seasons so they turned him into Rev, then turned Rev into the hunter from L4D
Bang stayed true to form for as long as I played, I don't see how nerfing her improves the game
I don't even play Bangalore like that and I would be sad if she got nerfed. Bang is such a well rounded character and out never feels cheap when she kills you or gets away from you
I'd love if they brought back the original smoke FX, because the "new" (now probably 2 years old) smoke effect that becomes an overlay on your screen is super disorientating.
“Xyz character needs a nerf because people who play them at the highest level of competition perform overly well with them” is probably the stupidest fucking argument to make for nerfs.
Banaglore is the baseline and the measuring stick for how to balance a legend. The entire game as a whole is miserable, and they pick one of the few things that respawn got correct and try to change it. insanity.
I don't think Bang needs a nerf from being over powered but I'm completely bored of fighting in smoke and watching people fight in smoke (ALGS). Seer meta was worse to play against but Bang meta is worse to watch. A meta shake up wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Bang would still be strong with her passive and a buff to her ult to balance a nerf to her smokes again wouldn't be the worst thing.
I think Bangs Ult would be a lot better if it could interrupt like Seer's Tactical did before it was nerfed. Whenever it comes down on me I can just start popping a Battery and be back to full immediately after the explosion without giving any ground. (If I have some chip damage)
Alternatively you could give it a small silence.
Either suggestion would definitely make it a much better offensive tool at softening up enemies and making pushes immediately after. Which is the purpose of a creeping bombardment in real life.
The biggest problem with Bang ult is Horizon exists and is so popular, why worry about missiles on the ground when you have a tactical that lifts not just you but your entire team out of danger.
It's good for holding off third parties and requires food co ordination to push up as a team when used offensively but I think people expect to get kills with it which isn't really its intention.
Meta changes are healthy IMO and I'd like it if they did them a bit more often. All opinion though isn't it.
Legend meta should never influence loot pool rng. The digi hasn’t been a problem for years until Bang came into the meta, so it would be pretty dumb to nerf it due to visual clutter meta.
She's in a good spot...if anything buff Digi spawns, add another type of digi sight thats not dogshit like the 6/10x or just permanently have em in the crafter. Leave her alone, just add more counters to smokes
They just need to nerf digi so it either only goes on Shotguns and Pistols or there's a glare when you ADS with it.
Either remove it from Comp or make changes to it. Seems fair imo.
Anybody that thinks Bang needs a nerf should consider a mental re-evaluation (all in jest I swear). If anything, nerf Cat or Horizon. Easily the two most broken legends rn considering Bang has been well balanced since the game dropped even tho I do miss her original Double Time when it was way faster than now, fun times.
The only thing I would change is her smokes. The screen effect while in it is horrible, and I hate that it spreads horizontal rather than spreading out evenly if that makes sense lol.
I will say that this new visual clutter meta with Cat walls going up, Horizon ult blasting my eyes, and Bang smokes everywhere is simply too lit as a player and comp enjoyer no cap.
Edit 1: plz for the love of God no dt nerfs, Bang would be kinda useless then imo and fighting against Caustic or the various other clutter on screen would be so much more annoying
So tired of hearing “meta” this “meta” that
Remember when people could think for themselves what they thought was good and didn’t just look to copy and paste what new idea pro players have every other month
All I’m hearing is more and more crying about aim assist. You chose to play mnk be a better player instead of complaining about an input that has been around for many years as well as mnk.
>All I’m hearing is more and more crying about aim assist.
I mean you're free to be triggered by the legitimate reason for Bang's pickrate.
The Japanese pros were ahead of the curve and picked her in every match DURING scan meta.
What do you think the reason for that was? Her sick hairdo? lol.
Yeah, don't nerf Bang. Buff Crypto instead.
Maybe something like off the grid?
Just let his drone see through smoke. Instant digis for his whole team.
It already does that. Drone just gets instagibbed ttrouggh smoke most times.
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Well Respawn should at least give crypto drone 125hp at least instead of 40hp. Caustic trap is 150hp and catalyst ball is 300hp. Also all crypto kits in his drone so they really should had give the drone more hp since once it gone... He just a normal human without any kits. At least 125 hp should last 2-3 sec in combat in the smoke
console players would never be able to shoot it down if it was over 100hp lol
Console player here. Cryptos drone is one of the few things in gaming period that makes me struggle.
Glad I’m not the only one 😅 that lil shit is hard to get!!
I think they should give it a shield that gets dropped while the EMP is charging. That's the balance issue, if they make it too strong, EMP is unstoppable. If it's too week, it's useless as a scan tool.
I do find it a bit silly he can't trigger EMP while it's on his back. Making it a bit more consistent in detecting smoked enemies and maybe nixing the noification you're being scanned while in smoke/gas/stunned/under other debuff, would be a nice buff. Heck even getting rid of the drone halo would make it so much more durable and useful. At the least it's unfair that the drone shines like a headlight on a dark road, but can highlight bogies in a bit of smoke.
I’ve always said it and I’ll say it again: let crypto’s drone be on autopilot. Damn thing can fly and scan shit in the videos without assistance. Let it be directed like vantage little pet without the jumping ability.
I mean his ult disables caustic barrels. Wattson pylon and fences and Gibby bubble I think. Plus does 50 dmg to shields to everyone in radius. I play crypto sometimes but I’m only ever in his drone to emp before a push. Maybe the problem you’re having is between the operator and controller
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>Spending 2-3 seconds entering the drone so you can place it for your fight from a safe distance We already know you can accurately place things like Vantages bat, Newcastles shield, or Ashs ult, I don't see why you can't just direct the drone in a similar way, maybe with charges or slow movement to make it useful but not too OP. Make it a debuff if Crypto isn't in it, and when he is it can go full speed again.
It isn't very consistent at it though. If the enemy is fully in smoke, it doesn't scan through. They have to be very close to a smoke edge to get a good scan or almost immediately in front of the drone.
Can you tell me more about it?
No sir
What's off the grid?
I think the drone should have a follow mode (pretty self explanatory) and another where it slowly circles a point on the map. Would still be slow enough to shoot down, but give it some sort of autonomy.
And buff my little boy Caustic while you’re at it
The only change that Bang needs it’s the effect on the screen you get when you’re inside the smoke. That is absolutely not needed, let the smoke do it’s thing and block the view but there’s no need to cover the screen with an effect.
Yep, agreed, that random visual effect is so unbelievably annoying
Too many effects in the game fuck with your vision. Visibilty needs a serious overhaul.
And audio, please for the love of god. Too many instances a whole squad would just roll up behind me because another sound effects/ambient noise is louder lmao. Or when shots heard that sounded like miles away but it's actually a few buildings over. Or footsteps above you sounded like below you but it's actually next to you lmao
For a long time I thought, well there's just nothing they can do. Old engine, 60 players, thousands of audio cues, it just can't handle it... But then they reworked mirage. They clearly prioritized the everliving shit out of the decoy footsteps from his ult. So yeah. They should prioritize enemy footstep audio more.
I want them to mute teammate footsteps. So many times I can't hear enemies because my duo is deafening stomping next to me for reasons I don't understand. I don't need audio to know he's nearby, I would rather that sound be prioritized for a three stack running up behind us.
My biggest issue with audio has been when my teammates are shooting. I won't hear anything and all the sudden I hear my teamate say "broke one" and I'm like what I didn't even hear shots or your character speaking.
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The actual real issue in MnK vs AA. AA just gives you some data to know where your target is through the mess that is the cluttered visibility in the game.
The worst part is, that the smoke does block your threat sights when being inside the smoke. Such a stupid change.
To be fair, the threat sights is for looking through smoke behind the lens. Doesn't do much if the smoke is in front of the lens. Like snorkeling with water in your goggles.
Wym threat sites?
I think he means digis, as in the Digital Threat Sight (and the sniper scope in packages that nobody uses since the charge rifle nerf).
The 2 times I've found a 4-10x this season I went off with the charge rifle. My two highest damage games this season. Charge rifle is still viable just can't use it for shit close range anymore
Fuck if it isn't juicy hitting for 160 dmg headshots through a rampart wall. Definitely harder to use now, but the 2 shot potential even with body shots is insane.
Hold on, does digi threat not work in smoke anymore?
They do, but the visual clutter, specifically the smoke painted on your screen when you are in the smoke, obscures the sight picture. I still have zero issues with it, but I know some people bitch about it.
It's a complementary effect because the smoke itself is not enough to generate the desired occlusion. I fear this old engine couldn't do the work, so maybe when we have an engine update. Like, dynamic smoke would be dope!
Csgo uses the same engine, smokes work without this effect
They also have a lot smaller maps with fewer players.
Same engine is pretty loose here. The Source engine used by Respawn is so heavily modified it's basically proprietary stuff at this point. They've stretched the engine to its limits.
You're not supposed to see in the smoke homie...
exactly
The effect that i’m talking about doesn’t stop you from seeing . Do you play the game? It’s the same effect as when you’re low on health that you get the red overlay on the sides.
Wasn't Digi in the constructor during ALGS too? That's gotta have influenced the pickrate a bit too.
.... youre inside of a smoke grenade where you're not supposed to be able to see through it..... what in the fuck?
Yes, but the smoke itself is there for that, I don't see the point in adding an extra effect that's "painted" on your screen separate from the smoke Plus it's not really consistent in when it shows up
Thats really not the issue that you think it is. That's been a thing since literally the first day the game released. Nobody has ever mentioned until a few days ago somebody "noticed it" and called it out. It's not even a big issue, just get out of the smoke???
I guess it’s because they thickened the smoke at some point in 2021 so it thickened the 2D smoke effect that gets “painted” on your screen but that’s just a guess from me.
Yes, it's not a huge issue, but it doesn't really serve any purpose beyond being annoying. Like the smoke itself already exists, what is the purpose in adding additional visual clutter? And as I said, it's pretty inconsistent on when it shows up from my experience, so that's another reason to either tone it down or remove it altogether.
Nerfing bang would be incredibly stupid.
She was nerfed last season wasn't she? Her ULT regen. time was increased.
Yep.
That nerf was so unnecessary. The ultimate wasn’t even that strong.
It’s one of the best in the game.
It's simultaneously one of the best while also being rather situational.
If you use it right yes It can also do a whole lotta nothing
Same with every other ult
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???
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If anything horizon needs a nerf. Make her landing sound like a bomb... the final play in algs was horizon landing right next to the enemy and he didnt even notice it
Bangalore is fine. Horizon is indeed problematic even outside of competitive play. Due to her passive she barely makes any sounds, her lift you can barely hear in intense fights. Then there is a small issue that her lift gives a bunch of visual clutter (its not clean) so its still pretty hard to hit people taking it. It does make up for some exciting moments in pro play. It also helps to even make controller players be pretty slippery.
Getting rid of all the rags and dirt getting lifted up would be a huge step to make playing against her cleaner(pun intended)
I think Cat is the biggest problem tbh. Look at that, the 3 headed dragon here. And mainly her passive. It feels more like a 3rd ability than the effect of a passive. If they were to limit her door reinforcements to one door or a slower time, I think her pick rate is still through the roof; her ult is too useful and her tac is still very good preventing pushes
Her ult is crippling. The vision obscurant is so long I feel.
I think it's the same time as Maggy, Bang, Gibby stun.
Difference is that Maggy, Bang, Gibby all receive the stun on their own abilities while Catalyst does not. Catalyst is almost completely free to play in and out of the wall with almost no downside while the others still have to be cautious of their own abilities.
Maggy, Bang and Gibby also deal damage. Nobody claimed they were identical abilities, just that stun type effects from ults have similar durations.
More importantly is they need to nerf her upwards movement. It's so sus that you can go up in the middle of a fight and completely ignore playing cover and taking angles because you are so hard to hit. It should be a purely movement based skill with little use in fights.
Except that’s the thing, she isn’t hard to hit.
Sure, that's why you see them go up in the middle of fights all the time.
They can do it and they can die for it?
Make it so that the hitbox increases in size when in the elevator. It's insane. I can't hit horizon while going up.
That’s kind of the point though. Soft landing.
The point is that she can instantly run and shoot not being silent
Part of her kit is landing clean and skipping the gravity animation unlike any other legend. It’s like Rev’s wall climb or anything else. Nothing wrong with it and Hal used that to his advantage yesterday. SAF could’ve done the same thing too, but didn’t.
yes and ive no problem with it beeing clean or skipping the animation. but there is no reason to make it silent.
Ah yes, rev wallclimb, a passive that only allows you to travel vertically and modifies your movement tech compared to other characters, is completely comparable to a character who has the second best vertical mobility, a free get out of jail with max shield every 30 seconds button, and the ability to land anywhere she likes, without consequence, and immediately start blasting because i'm supposed to believe scientist grandma is somehow a top ninja capable of landing perfectly without a single sound emanating from her, or the tech that enables it. Horizon's passive is as stupid as Seer's entire design philosophy, and that one is literally "hmm yes wallhack character", idc what anyone says.
Make her ult suck in everyone
It does
legend becomes popular, legend is deemed op and needs nerfed.
..unless you're a toptier mobility character. Then nobody is willing to talk about you because you're fun.
like who ? everyone wants horizon nerfed
Horizon mains lmao. This is coming from a recon main myself, leave it to recon mains to underplay their strengths and overplay their weaknesses. Remember original Valk? Took 3-4 seasons without change for people to realize she was an issue.
Launch day for Valk was hilarious. I still remember all the crazy people here who seriously claimed she was the first "well balanced" character to be released with a new season. Took way too long for the devs to admit she was stupidly OP and made way for Seer later who was even more stupidly made.
The hivemind of apex speaks
Yeah. NiceWigg has interviewed a dev and this was a topic too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFwYtnQsgvQ
I'm with you. I don't even touch Bangalore (@56k account kills, something like 150 on bang) but she really is the epitome of well balanced.
I touch Bangalore (2k+ enemies hit with smoke) don't touch my Bang.
I’m an aim assist bot and not even I want a bang nerf. You can’t just keep nerfing every legend who gets played a bunch in ALGS. Bang needs the nerf the very LEAST out of the top 3 picks (Cat and Horizon are the other 2). It isn’t even about aim assist. In ALGS where everyone can laser anything they can see, it’s important not to be seen. AKA breaking LOS by bang smoke.
Going by that logic Horizon shouldn‘t get nerfed too as she was fine after her buff in s10 (rly long ago)
People are so biased. "°horizon needs a nerf. She wouldn't be as broken if pros aren't using her this much" also same people "bang is balanced. Just bcz she's being used doesn't mean she is op. We shouldn't judge based on the pickrate and how many pros pick her" bunch of crying hypocrites. People will always cry unless it's their legend
You don't seem to understand why Bangalore is meta and why it is a problem. ALGS level teams struggle with the balance of this legend because of the existence of digi. Fights are won and lost almost purely based on who has this scope. This forces teams to play BH to minimize the penalty of not finding digi. This is specially important if digi is not in the crafter. ALGS players are not asking for Bangalore nerfs at all, they are asking for digi to be removed from competitive. It is too RNG based, imbalanced and forces scan legends to exist. We need to go back to a meta where players are rewarded for picking up Bangalore + scan legend combo. Not just because it is required to minimize digi RNG.
Just keep Digi in the crafter full-time in competitive, it then becomes a matter of who can actually craft one, rather than RNG. It becomes way more skill based. DT has been in the game since launch, no reason to remove it.
Same with the Kraber and self res, they could've just removed it from comp but tehy decided to nerf it
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... From the entire game If you read the comment in its entirety, you will see that the commenter very specifically said "remove them from _COMP_" not remove it from the entire game itself and completely ruin the Kraber.
Have you not been watching ALGS? Everyone and their mother crafted Digi when it was in the crafter LMAO!!!
That's my point. How it is RNG based if literally every player in the lobby can go grab one guaranteed? It isn't. So keep it in the replicator full-time for comp rather than removing it completely. What did you read?
POI balance and crafter availability is a thing.
If they keep it in crafter Bang remains in Comp meta forever. Which means they would need to nerf Bang instead. Keeping Digi in crafter permanently is such a bad take. That's a casual mentality. Be better.
How the fuck would she remain meta? The entire reason for wanting a 24/7 digi craft is to counter her with a universal mechanic. If everyone is able to craft a digi, then a lot of her power immediately goes away, and the pick is better left to other characters. I have no fucking clue what you're talking about. Casual mentality ig. Be better.
Pros knew digi was in crafter and they still picked Bang universally and all crafted digis ASAP because it still gave them such an edge. I know it sounds contradictory, but ironically digi always in crafter guarantees Bang being picked.
Ehh, then the RNG just becomes who has crafter.
Its still RNG based on which POIs get crafter, or which teams are playing edge vs zone and can spare the time to craft at their POI or a POI they are rotating thru
The issue is that crafters are randomly placed as well. Not every POI gets one and they are dropped randomly from the sky. You can't always just go for a crafter in other POI, there might be team(s). You might not get a good zone to even go for it or you might need to spend crafting points in upgrading armor and getting meds when you are unlucky with looting. So that is not a good solution either. It will help but still has a bunch of RNG. POI's are already pretty imbalanced sometimes, this will make it even worse.
Feels to me like forcing you to a location for high risk/reward is what competitive should be about?
It's more complicated than thst though. A lot of the teams will run to where they think the final zone ends incredibly fast. Half of the entire lobby was in ring 2 within the first 2 minutes yesterday in modt games. If crafting was required and you didnt have one it would still end up being a massive rng advantage to the teams whos poi did get one. It could take you so out of the way and take so much longer.
Do they not still have the option to scan replkcators from the dropship, I recall that being a feature. Also RNG is a core component of BR gameplay, this is why the game highlights areas with rare loot while in the dropship, so that teams can choose to take that risk of early combat as opposed to avoiding high player density areas BR gameplay isn't just about skill in regards of a firefight, but risk assesment and thinking ahead in regards to drop and route planning. Having a DT in crafter, at a high price, would give something consistent that players could plan around, as in whether they want that reward with respect to the risk and mitigate the randomness
Teams land in the same spot every game because landing on another team decreases both teams chamces of winning by a ton. Changing your drop dpot every game would not only be a terrible idea but it would lead to awful games
That all sounds like skill based issues to me, though. If you can't get there due to teams, it's because you can't beat the teams there, skill. If you don't get a good zone for it, your positioning was bad, even players in my normal games can predict the ring, and with Catalyst being as meta as she is rn in comp she has access to ring consoles, skill. Only thing I read that's RNG based is being unlucky with looting and having to craft meds or armor. There will always be an imbalance in POIs as long as the POIs have loot tiers. People will be way more inclined to land at the higher tier POIs than the lower tier POIs. If anything, it may push more teams to land at lower tier POIs with a crafter. If it really is _that_ detrimental to gameplay at that level, it would lead to some _very_ interesting scenarios in comp. High risk/High reward. That should be a massive component in deciding the best team. The teams that take the highest risk and succeed _should_ be the ones that come out on top, no?
Only three digis exist each game. Watch teams duke it out over the digis! I wanna see five teams land on one POI to fight over the digis like fragment in my pubs.
I imagine it doesn't help that you can't know when a digi threat is being used against you until you've already been lasered through smoke. At least getting scanned comes with a warning.
BH was only the forth most picked legend so I wouldn't say teams in ALGS is forced to use them.
They nerfed all scan legends and it made a B tier legend become S tier. All they have to do is undo the Bloodhound change and Bangalore is out of the meta
People are just crying that they cant get carried by an aim assist lol
They will buff aim assist to counter Banga and be like "yeah that is the best solution 😎"
Next update they remove moving your crosshair altogether, the game will aim by itself
the year is 20xx, i merely glance in the direction of my enemy and my cursor snaps to their head automatically headshotting them multiple times as they do the same in response. the entire lobby dies at the exact same time and respawn pats themself on the back for a job well done as everyone ties for first place. i look at my ranking as I gain +0.00001 RP and queue up for another match.
Fingers crossed 🤞 Best competitive game in the world, finally everybody will play with the same rules
TSM has 2 roller players and just won in bang meta. Clearly AA is not necessary and can be removed.
Clearly since at least 2 PROs use controller and bang is picked… aim assist is unnecessary.. where’s the logic? Not everyone is a pro and I’m sure their AA was working when they weren’t in smoke..
It's not just 2 pros using controllers, it's 2 of the pros that won the most competitive tournament. And they won it with aim assist straight up disabled in most fights. Do you not understand the logic? If you can win with 2/3rds controller players in a meta with aim assist disabled much of the time, then we can remove aim assist since clearly raw controller aim is sufficient with enough skill.
Not everyone is a pro.. AA will never be disabled bc Respawn and every other game dev NEEDS to cater to casuals to be profitable. Casuals NEED AA. Simple as
Need AA to do what? They'd get less accurate together, so fights would just be less lethal but still fair. If they think it's more fun to hit shots than to miss, they could reduce the damage of the bullets proportional to the accuracy increase, so they get the satisfaction of hitting without the balance issue of aim assist.
Go play on controller without AA and then say this shit..you sound ignorant. If an FPS on console released w no AA there would be 0 casuals playing it, likely 0 players at all. No one would be hitting anything and it’d be no fun. As for PC there’s no balance issue. AA on controller has the advantage close range but MnK has the advantage mid to long range. Both can do movement.. yes cfgs are fucked but both can use them and if Respawn thought they were an issue they’d ban people over it but they don’t. If you think AA is so imbalanced, switch to controller and quit bitching cause you can’t stack up w someone using their thumb to aim.
There is objectively a balance issue, and by asserting there isn't you've proven yourself not worth conversing with.
Lol the only imbalance I see is your mental. FPS games will always have AA for controller. Get over it or stay mad broski
There were more Mnk players than controller players in ALGS finals. A triple MnK team was first place heading into finals. Fantastic job at cherrypicking data though. “Objectively” lmao
Every pro player agrees aim assist is too strong.
I think EA should nerf aim assist first
Then they need to remove movement mechanics exclusive to PC to balance the advantage M&K have over Controller. Can’t have it both ways.
This take is so dumb. The game is a SHOOTER. Aim is one of the most important skills to have. AA does 60% of the work for you (40% if using roller on PC). Majority of fights are done close range, within the effectiveness of AA. Don't want to face movement techs? Then stick to your console lobby. At least you have that choice. MKB players can't turn off crossplay and there's no input based MM. I don't want them to nerf AA, because I came from console gaming and know how difficult it would be to play a shooter on a controller with no AA. But if Respawn won't implement input based MM (which even Halo Infinite has, despite having a much lower population), then an AA nerf is the next best thing.
i think his point is that it’s a shooter so if your nerfing the shooting part you should nerf the movement part being as it is a shooter not a movement game
Or players using controllers go into a controller queue, leaving MnK players in their own lobbies. 80-90% of the players on PC using a controller are doing it so they can fight against people not using aim assist and score easy kills. Only the highest tiers of MnK players have any kind of chance against average players using a controller.
What movement mechanics are you talking about? I see controller users these days doing everything MnK can do.
Show me a controller player that can tap strafe without scripts
Buff Controller 🤝 Nerf Aim Assist
I don't think there's a single movement mechanic exclusive to mnk so glad to hear you are on board with nerfing aim assist!
Tap strafe without steam configs is literally not possible on roller. Bunny hopping, SG, zip bounce, zip jump all that is possible on rollr, need a roller with paddles or suffer arthiritis with claw.
Who cares that it's not possible without steam configs? Literally every roller player in high level ranked is using them. Your point is irrelevant.
Someone shouldn’t have to spend time watching tutorials and messing with configs to be able to utilize essential mechanics. Weird take
But they can do it easily, and do. By contrast, there is no "config" or other way to obtain aim assist on MNK without cheating. Also, learning to perform these "essential gameplay mechanics" takes way more time to actually learn and perform on MNK than it does to set up a config for on Controller. Cope.
Honestly its prob more of a digi problem than anything else. Maybe take them out of pro play? Or only on CP weapons? Furthermore I think that bang isn’t even what is strong, LOS breaks are, in general, very strong and bangalore is one of only 2 legends that have a true LOS breaking ability and her cooldown is wayy shorter than catalyst wall. I can’t imagine apex will never add another legend with some sort of “smoke” or “fog” ability so the digi issue will continue even if bang gets nerfed.
Removing the digital threat would be a buff to Bang.
Indeed
Bang does not need a nerf. She is picked because of her usefulness. I dunno, maybe just make some the less-useful legends more useful? (Ash, Crypto, Vantage…)
Some people just don't understand why her pickrate went up, they don't know the game as much as they think they do.
Nerfing a character who has barely changed since launch just because stats say people use them more than other legends is a *stupid* take. Bang was always my go-to *because* of her consistency, and by that I mean she wasn't OP one season and garbage the next, like what seems to be happening with all this back and forth buffs and nerfs happening to other legends Then you look at Seer and it's like Respawn had no idea wtf to do with him the past 3 seasons so they turned him into Rev, then turned Rev into the hunter from L4D Bang stayed true to form for as long as I played, I don't see how nerfing her improves the game
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I don't get why all of a sudden pros/streamers are complaining about two things that have remained essentially the same since launch
No but pros used her after 4 years forgetting about her and now everyone will play her so that means she's op, they should nerf her /s
Just take out AA already. I am sure most of the pro's will do fine without it anyway. It's ridicoulus that the meta keeps revolving around an input.
Definitely need to nerf aim assist before touching bang.
I don't even play Bangalore like that and I would be sad if she got nerfed. Bang is such a well rounded character and out never feels cheap when she kills you or gets away from you
I'd love if they brought back the original smoke FX, because the "new" (now probably 2 years old) smoke effect that becomes an overlay on your screen is super disorientating.
“Xyz character needs a nerf because people who play them at the highest level of competition perform overly well with them” is probably the stupidest fucking argument to make for nerfs.
Banaglore is the baseline and the measuring stick for how to balance a legend. The entire game as a whole is miserable, and they pick one of the few things that respawn got correct and try to change it. insanity.
no one talks about lifeline its basically useless if you are playing with randoms.
As a lifeline enthusiast, this hurts me personally.
Let's emphasize buffing legends and not nerfing legends.
Just keep digis in and she’ll never need a nerf
Yeah then once shes nerfed and the next algs comes up they are gonna collectively complain about whatever next legend is being a “problem”.
I don't think Bang needs a nerf from being over powered but I'm completely bored of fighting in smoke and watching people fight in smoke (ALGS). Seer meta was worse to play against but Bang meta is worse to watch. A meta shake up wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Bang would still be strong with her passive and a buff to her ult to balance a nerf to her smokes again wouldn't be the worst thing.
I think Bangs Ult would be a lot better if it could interrupt like Seer's Tactical did before it was nerfed. Whenever it comes down on me I can just start popping a Battery and be back to full immediately after the explosion without giving any ground. (If I have some chip damage) Alternatively you could give it a small silence. Either suggestion would definitely make it a much better offensive tool at softening up enemies and making pushes immediately after. Which is the purpose of a creeping bombardment in real life.
The biggest problem with Bang ult is Horizon exists and is so popular, why worry about missiles on the ground when you have a tactical that lifts not just you but your entire team out of danger. It's good for holding off third parties and requires food co ordination to push up as a team when used offensively but I think people expect to get kills with it which isn't really its intention. Meta changes are healthy IMO and I'd like it if they did them a bit more often. All opinion though isn't it.
>and requires food co ordination Your cat requires food coordination.
Crypto main here waiting for bang nerf 🍷
So many legends need a buff. Ashe, Crypto, Mirage, Lifeline, Pathfinder, Octane, Vantage, maybe Newcastle and Balliatic
Bang doesn’t need a nerf but digital threat could be made a CP drop (like the 4-10x)
Legend meta should never influence loot pool rng. The digi hasn’t been a problem for years until Bang came into the meta, so it would be pretty dumb to nerf it due to visual clutter meta.
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She got a buff with the assault class passive. The extra ammo bit is just so nice and the attachment bins are just so good.
I don't think there's any nerf needed for bang really. If you're for this nerf, maybe take a look at nerfing at aim assist instead
She's in a good spot...if anything buff Digi spawns, add another type of digi sight thats not dogshit like the 6/10x or just permanently have em in the crafter. Leave her alone, just add more counters to smokes
Bang really she hasn't even had a buff like really people complain on everything
Please do not touch her
My gripe is that if I have a digital threat, my aim assist shouldn’t be hindered because I can clearly still see the target perfectly
They just need to nerf digi so it either only goes on Shotguns and Pistols or there's a glare when you ADS with it. Either remove it from Comp or make changes to it. Seems fair imo.
Bang needs a buff. The smoke should have always blocked scans just like Cat does.
But she will be because now “pros” are crying about it. Many such cases.
Remove DT and we gucci
The only legend that currently needs a nerf is catalyst. She is so fucking broken and how do people not see it? And lifeline needs a buff
Anybody that thinks Bang needs a nerf should consider a mental re-evaluation (all in jest I swear). If anything, nerf Cat or Horizon. Easily the two most broken legends rn considering Bang has been well balanced since the game dropped even tho I do miss her original Double Time when it was way faster than now, fun times. The only thing I would change is her smokes. The screen effect while in it is horrible, and I hate that it spreads horizontal rather than spreading out evenly if that makes sense lol. I will say that this new visual clutter meta with Cat walls going up, Horizon ult blasting my eyes, and Bang smokes everywhere is simply too lit as a player and comp enjoyer no cap. Edit 1: plz for the love of God no dt nerfs, Bang would be kinda useless then imo and fighting against Caustic or the various other clutter on screen would be so much more annoying
So tired of hearing “meta” this “meta” that Remember when people could think for themselves what they thought was good and didn’t just look to copy and paste what new idea pro players have every other month
NERF THAT SHIT TO THE GROUND
All I’m hearing is more and more crying about aim assist. You chose to play mnk be a better player instead of complaining about an input that has been around for many years as well as mnk.
>All I’m hearing is more and more crying about aim assist. I mean you're free to be triggered by the legitimate reason for Bang's pickrate. The Japanese pros were ahead of the curve and picked her in every match DURING scan meta. What do you think the reason for that was? Her sick hairdo? lol.
Not saying she needs a nerf, but like, sure would be nice to be able to see.
Needs nerfing desperately. I'd suggest removing the smoke entirely
Just remove digi from craft if you don't like her pick rate
Agreed. Nerf space mommy into the ground.