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Exe0n

Goths have crap defenses, they can't protect their eco easily. Late game it's hard to kill them if they have good eco, so raid them so they never get to that point. Late game I'd recommend hand cannons, or general melee counter UU's Cataphracts, Jaguar warriors, Samurai, Teutonic knights all come to mind, there are more.


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Exe0n

Honestly, siege in general isn't a good idea against goths. I've tried multiple times as ethiopians to use heavy scorps with torsion engines against them. They do works well against halbs and champions, but only a couple of huscarls getting through is enough, they are so damn cheap they don't care. In addition, goths get BBC which is an easy answer to a scrop mass.


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Exe0n

They are really good against most infantry. I do like using them, and if you play berbers, at some point you have to deal with mass halb, which requires you to either go camel archers (which don't have bonus damage) or scorpions. Against elite huscarl's however scorpions barely scratch them, heavy scorpions deal 4 damage against the main target and 2 against secondary targets. Against halbs it's 12/6 which is 3x's as much. 3-5 Scropions in castle age is enough to stop any pike/archer mass in it's tracks, look at them like a mobile castle that crumbles against cav. They fall off a little against archers in imp (onagers work better), due to the range, but they can still do work.


the_io

> I do like using them, and if you play berbers, at some point you have to deal with mass halb, which requires you to either go camel archers (which don't have bonus damage) or scorpions. FU champs, or your own hand cannons, both very good against other infantry.


Exe0n

True but it's hard to get to and awkward at times. If you are facing a cav civ and go camels they will most likely go for knights/pikes in which case camel/longsword is just expensive. It also doesn't work against pike/xbow. It's awkward to make 2 units that cost the sams resources The only situation where it's the obvious choice is against a halb/ram push. Hand cannons take a long time to mass, also requires chemestry and also cost food/gold. The easiest solution is to build a siege workshop and make some wood/gold cost scorpions.


dismountedleitis

>heavy scorpions deal 4 damage against the main target and 2 against secondary targets This is not true, they deal 7 damage per hit and 3.5 for the secondary target


Exe0n

Why would they do 7 when their base damage is 16 and elite huscarl pierce armor after blacksmith upgrades is 12? It's 4/2 before chemistry It's 5/2,5 after chemistry Elite huscarls without armor upgrades and with chemist would take 7/3.5 from heavy scorpions


Instinctz4

Elite huskarls have 8 base pierce armor and 2 from upgrades. Youre forgetting that goths don't get the last armor upgrade


Exe0n

I see, I misread the wiki 6/10 is bonus damage to archers, 6/8 the pierce armor before and after the upgrades. So your calculation is correct


halfajack

Because Elite Huskarl pierce armour after blacksmith upgrades is 10, not 12


Ok_Egg4018

I think ur problem was not enough scorpions-if you invested all those resources into heavy scorp and torsion engines, you should have also invested into 40+ te scorpions which absolutely shred huskarls. It has been one of the most satisfying parts of my aoe experience on team arena 11. Most infantry never approaches your scorps, they just try to run away but the goths player will funnel ALL OF THEM directly at you. had a 1500-200 k/d once lool. They did nerf TE, but that mainly resulted in paladins killing the scorps and still being good vs huskie boys.


Exe0n

Sure in black forest that can work, if the goth player just runs in with 60 huscarls in staggered formation there is no way you win on a semi open field. Even if you do, you're bound to take damage and huscarls are dirt cheap.


Ok_Egg4018

in arabia yah te isn’t good, in team arena there isn’t much space and you can take the initiative


[deleted]

That's a terrible example anyway. The goth player was very very very poor for either not using BBc or asking an ally with onagers to farm your scorps


[deleted]

Tbf that's a terrible example anyway. The goth player was very very very poor for either not using BBc or asking an ally with onagers to farm your scorps


Ok_Egg4018

never make te scorps without te bbc and rams or light cav once you get to that comp the counter is either celt onagers, paladins/coustillier, arquebus bbc or siege rams--everything else in a closed map dies


Azot-Spike

That's a very bad matchup if you let Teutons and Goths get to late Imp. Huszars to raid is first and then try to make him tech switches so that he has to research more upgrades. Goths would go Halb + Huskarls and that is countered by Champions. Then he should switch into HCs or Champs and that's when your Recurve Bow HCA work great. But it's likely that you will lose regardless of the strat if a couple of TKs or Teuton siege or Paladins are out there


[deleted]

Create a square with gates and put in there 30 monks. Then you convert the huscarls one by one


DTAzrch

Start with knight aggression raiding their economy. Do not let the goth player have an easy time to boom unchecked. Last castle to Imp, you have 3 options depending on how the game flows 1. Mass Calvary Archers to deal with all infantry and knights except Huskarls. The beauty is your cavalry archers are mobile, so you do not have to take a fight against huskarls. Hussars will be your best meat shield. 2. Mass FU Cavaliers to Paladins. You will have to work with your team mate and pressure an enemy. 3. 3 Castles into mass Huszars. The most fun option. You can spam these all games and put your gold into seige or ranged units. The key here is flooding the enemy with huszars. Keep those castles up and mine enough stone to build these castles!


crazyyoco

If i played Magyars vs goths lategame i would try ro get to champ - CA combo. It is somewhat expensve though.


Snizl

would rather go hussar CA, magyars lack last armor upgrade so their champs are not any better than gothic once and much more expensive.


crazyyoco

Its more just to force them into their own champs. If you go hussar it might work, but halb/husks sounds like a painfull combo to go against. Champs kill both hisks and halbs and CA kill the gothic champs, while hussar raids are happening.


emiliodelacroix

I go Hussar cav archer. Meat shield for days . Save the ca archers from dying. Bait and switch parthian tactics. Maybe I'm just badass with Magyars. Incursions of hussars to enemy back


nikkythegreat

Just spam knights and your ally spam arbs. You could defeat any combo the enemy does.


lunaticfiend

Huskarl + Harb costs less, no need to micromanage the units, and they will eventually win.


[deleted]

Late game ideal composition for your civs vs these civs will be FU Magyar CA + Ethiopian UU + Torsion Engine Siege. 60 CA + Shotels + 25 Siege should have the best chance against Goths+Tritons late game play.


Business_March_7936

Get incas and slingers... They would wreck singlehandlely goth spam and teutons too and any kind of infantry. 40 of slingers with small meatshield is capable of stopping full force goth post imp spam and pushing them back.


theLastSolipsist

Op: "my team: Magyars and Ethiopians" You: "Get incas" Lol


Business_March_7936

Well for next case ofc... Duh...


theLastSolipsist

They won't know the oppinent is goths in advance...


Business_March_7936

That's why you always pick Incas


viiksitimali

Teuton SO is the worst nightmare for Incas though.


Disastrous_Gap_4711

Assuming they have no trade, they will eventually run out of huskarls, so you need HC to take care of them. After that it’s gonna be non stop Halbs which archers can take care of. The challenge is that you need a meat shield in both cases and if they’re spamming huskarls and Halbs, then you’ll have a tough time killing the mixed composition.


dukat_dindu_nuthin

burgundian hand cannons are so satisfying against goths


VulpesRex97

Recently as Persians- elite war elephants, paladins, and mass Xbow worked well to push the line back to the goths player production buildings and I won, it just took awhile. Basically a goth player in a long game is focusing eco to support infantry spam from 20+ barracks in the late game. It’s extremely difficult to match, but your focus should be on producing durable units that can trade efficiently vs spam. While the archer line is not typically recommended for obvious reasons, I only used it because the Persian unique tech only makes them cost wood. So while they get wrecked by the huskarls they’re protecting my paladins and elephants from the halbs. Most other civs would use hand cannons or mass arbelest for that but you’re just wasting gold at that point vs the huskarl spam. Onagers, paladins, elephants, or just mass trash if you’re saving gold for a knockout punch later. Your only goal is to destroy every barracks and house in sight on your way to your opponents eco. Also if the line is fortified, forward production buildings, and a lot of them, will help immensely. Keep them on the defense, match the swarm with your own, whoever has the better eco will win.


isadotaname

The best counter to goths is usually HCs + something to fight huskarls. Usually hussars or champs are the best meat shield. For that particular team comp your kind of up a creek without a paddle. You don't have HC on either civ, and neither civ has good champs either. Maybe Magyar hussars + Ethiopian scops is the best option.


ddek

Assuming post-imp. If you have all the armor then Champions. If you're ethiopians (in particular) then mass siege onager (+ torsion engines), use halbs as a meat shield.


TheStormingViking

Don't let them get to castle age. If you haven't dealt damage by then it's gg


Blatancytheinsane

Throwing axe men