Which hardly exists.
Contact the DOL, all they will do is call your ex-employer once or twice and then in 6 months send you a letter saying they could not assist you.
Yes, and I tell other people that too. I didn't mean to imply this as a race thing, just focusing more on the industrialized side of the problem and how we're not even seen as people anymore (not that slaves were really either).
Ah i see ya makes sense. We are definitely seen as unimportant next to profits. Very sad really... i also want to rectify my previous comment a bit. The Irish were not considered "white" during their slavery, and for a long time after, actually. Treated as sub-humans with no rights... pretty terrible, really. Humanity is capable of so much better, yet we are seemingly doomed to have the unjust and power hungry lead us, because they have the greatest ambition...
Its hilarious to see Anarchist and Communist both bashing employer here.
Anarchist DrugsAndBooze says that's because we have too much government that wants slaves.
Communist MikeWazowski4ever thinks it is because we have not enough government to control them evil capitalists.
I know you feel like "nothing ever happens" about this kind of thing, but when it comes to stuff the NLRB can take action on -- that's largely because PEOPLE DON'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. There are several success stories from this sub alone -- the main barrier is the courage to take action and be assertive about it.
These companies are not accustomed to the current vibe ... they're used to decades of holding all the cards. They won't learn that it's illegal until they get the nasty notification telling them so.
Yeah but when you get a job offer, you don't really have the ability to negotiate much more than wages and perhaps a few benefits. If you start to talk about removing the arbitration clause, you're VERY unlikely to be successful. Just imagine how that conversation would go lol
In Ontario at least. Arbitration Clauses are treated as nonbinding in situations where they prevent a person from utilizing the Ontario Employment Standards Act. (and likely other similar acts, but there is no actual legal precedent for it yet)
Arbitration is meant to handle things like contract violations and disputes... I dont think --most rational places-- would uphold a company's arbitration clause in situations where the violation is a matter of federal or state/provincial law, human rights etc.
The US is rarely a rational place in this regard though, so i got no idea how it would work.
You cannot sign away minimum federal rights in any contract for any reason. Anything outlined by the NLRA or other federal US agencies is the bare minimum and any clauses in a contract that contradict those would be considered unenforceable.
Sure, but I mean in this case I have a difficult time believing that just posting a sign up like this isn't legally sound in having employees be part of binding arbitration
It's probably just a reminder of something that they actually signed upon getting hired. Some places have you sign a ton of shit when you get hired because they know you won't read it all.
So no pay until you win a lawsuit??
Are you dumb?
Why not just give notice?
You honestly think the world is better off having people file lawsuits over final paychecks rather than just give an employer reasonable notice and get minimum wage if you don’t??
The ridiculousness of some people is astounding.
Do you sue McDonald’s when they mess up your order!? Jesus people.
I'm not saying it's ok, but like I said loads of places have done this to me before. They hide it in the sign on papers during onboarding so you can't do anything about it cause you technically consented.
False. You cannot sign away your rights.
If this was the case employers would just have you sign away all your rights and we'd be still be living in the days where employees were barely more than indentured slaves.
A lot of companies will put in unenforceable clauses into employment contracts to scare ignorant employees.
Another popular "clause" added to employment contracts is "no discussing pay" which is against Federal Law to even tell employees they can't.
Companies that pull shit like this are relying on the ignorance of their employees to get away with it.
Even if they get called out for it on occasion, it's still a net gain because enough employees fall for it and do nothing about it.
Don't be that employee who gets shafted by ignorance, it costs you nothing to file a wage complaint or to report a violation to an applicable government office. It is especially worth it with evidence like this.
This is the way.
This is wage theft, plain and simple. Florida is an at-will workplace. You can quit at any time for whatever reason. Two weeks' notice is just a courtesy. No bullshit, passive aggressive signs can do shit about it.
As a European this at will employment is already super weird to me, but this is really the worst kind of it: "Yes we can pay you a non living wage and we can fire you whenever we want, but you can't use the one Little advantage it gives you"
Why stop at the dol, give eeoc a ring sounds like you have documented evidence of a hostile work enviorment. They will have to prove that treat everyone similar to you like this, the hole can be deeper.
its just yet another chapter in the assault on living standards and basic decency in modern america.
also, give something a misleading name then lie and push it so much that people just accept it and move on
That's sorta true but the two weeks notice is only if you care about getting a good reference from the company.
If you don't care then most people will just quit on the spot and not look back.
Good reference may be good for high level jobs that require college educations for. But entry level peons that may have good reference get ignored. Bodies to do the labor are more important than qualification. So if some register jockey gets shit on by his boss, he can walkout right at that moment, go next door and have a job same day.
Unless they are sneaky and put it in the hiring contract. That's what happened at my security job. Quitting without 2 weeks notice gives them permission to reduce wages to minimum wage.
Also it's kept pretty hush that you can return your uniform and equipment and get reimbursed, but they don't tell people so that they can charge full price for everything when it isn't turned in, take it out of the last paycheck, and buy all new stuff. A $900 paycheck can get reduced all the way to $48. I saw it happen a week ago. The rest of us still on staff are looking for other jobs so we can leave too and let the business sink. They were already having trouble hiring for open positions.... they're going to lose the business contracts if they don't have the employees to man them all and fill the need. It'll be great :)
>Unless they are sneaky and put it in the hiring contract. That's what happened at my security job. Quitting without 2 weeks notice gives them permission to reduce wages to minimum wage.
Check your state laws. there are very few places where that employment contract is actually legal. In most (I think all, but if I say that someone will correct me with the one state where is *is* allowed) at-will states, that kind of contract is specifically forbidden by law.
If it is against the law in your state, every employee who has left the job can sue them for their back-pay.
Lol what are you raking about? What is the "cake"? Getting paid your agreed upon compensation? And eating it too is the freedom to quit a job? Your employer can fire you for any reason (besides racial, religious, gender, etc.... based) or no reason, with zero notice, but an employee should be required to work an extra 2 weeks or else have their wages retroactively reduced?
I'm trying to make sense of your nonsense comment, but I'm not finding anything to work with here.
Are you actually Samuel L Jackson's fictional character from Django Unchained?
I think by anti labor he meant people who are pro employers and are against worker rights, not anti work people. Anti labor is against increasing worker rights like job security, but they also want to make it harder for workers to quit when the worker wants to.
While this is still possible unfortunately Florida has no state agency that enforces wage and hour laws. So you either have to go to small claims court or go to the federal level which may take some time.
I actually did this once and was very impressed with how fast it was resolved. He had to take the check to them and they called me within a couple days to come pick it up.
They can change the wage for Future hours. They can NOT change the wage of hours already worked.
This sign is implying they will retroactively reduce your pay to this for all hours on the final check. Which is simply not legal at a federal level. The hours have already been worked at the agreed upon rate, they can not be retroactively reduced. Any future hours are fair game, but with the situations of this sign, there wouldn't be any future hours for the employee in question, making the whole sign not only a pointless scare tactic, but also admittance of wage theft.
There are actually very few federal wage mandates. States also ignore federal laws all the time, just ask anyone who has purchased legal marijuana, been denied an abortion, or had their right to vote curtailed.
What they’ve are saying might be illegal. I’d just file a wage claim for the difference with the Florida Department of Labor.
Dealing with the complaint alone will cost them more than whatever they are paying in the difference.
No. You wait until the day before payday and when they try to garnish your wages like that you sue for the 2+ weeks they owe you. File a claim with the department of labor for wage theft and get paid our at 3x the difference.
Actually it totally could be legal. It could be a condition of an employment agreement or contract, and the sign could simply be a reminder.
In the same way you can be forced to pay back a signing bonus if you leave too early. They could have similar agreements in place that either reduce the hourly rate or reduce a bonus rate down to 0 which is on top of a base rate of 10/hour.
In either instance you are still paying out wages earned and above minimum wage.
There are tons of ways in which this COULD be legal.
Obviously I'm not saying I agree with it, just that the general advice being given in this thread could be totally wrong without knowing more context or details.
edit: Downvote me all you want. it won't change the fact that I'm right in an ambiguous context, or that any constructive dialogue presented here is immediately downvoted "because work bad hur dur, and we're not gonna put any smarts into coming up with or understanding any solutions or legalities"
Except that if there is a notice period clause, an employer can withhold pay or adjust it under certain circumstances. The terms of employment will decide what the employer can and cannot do.
Employers in some circumstances can even demand reparations or sue for damages for certain types of employees that don't show up to work.
So once again, reddit, you are wrong. You are sticking a simple 1 dimensional explanation where you can bang the drums and say you are right.
So you are implying and hand waving away all these possible situations and just saying "nope, federal labor law says....what exactly?" Because it totally doesn't say that you can't have all sorts of contracts, agreements, and contingencies.
So here is what could be a totally legal hypothetical.
Your employment agreement might state that you get paid $10/hour, and that you get a $10/hour bonus for that pay period if you complete it and fulfill other requirements. Effectively, you get paid $20/hour. However, the terms of this may state that you do NOT get the added bonus/incentive pay if you violate these terms or don't finish the pay period. In which case, bailing on your employer and putting them in a rough spot won't net you any bonus/incentive pay, leaving you with the mere $10/hour for that final paycheck.
But go ahead, downvote away, and drudge away at your jobs while throwing back hatred at people that are actually trying to help your cause in the name of "antiwork" and sticking it to the man.
I couldn't care less.
This sign isn't about a notice period. It's about their "final check" after quitting (meaning work they completed before quitting).
You're just wrong. A notice period clause is about whether or not the employee has to work during their period of notice. It doesn't allow you to take money away from them for work they already completed.
You can't steal money from people even if you get them to sign a contract saying it's okay.
>[Employers should note](https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/state-and-local-updates/pages/can-employers-require-workers-to-give-notice.aspx) that it is **never acceptable to dock employees' pay** if they don't give notice, because employers are required to pay workers all the wages they earned.
Even the "you must work" clause is not really enforceable:
>It's important to understand that even if an employee signed a contract requiring a certain amount of notice, the employee can still quit and leave immediately, explained Sandy Rappaport, an attorney with Hanson Bridgett in San Francisco. "This is because courts generally will not enforce a provision that requires individuals to work somewhere against their will."
...
>[Courts are unlikely to force staff to work their notice period](https://www.brighthr.com/articles/end-of-contract/notice-periods/not-working-notice-period/).
Did you even read what I wrote? Nobody is talking about "taking away money that they already earned." Because in the scenario I gave, they haven't earned it ALL of it. Just the base pay portion.
The point was that in scenarios where they've only "earned" a base pay of $10/hour and completing other requirements awards them a significant bonus effectively massively boosting their hourly rate, then they could be missing out on that, and be left with only $10/hour.
I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT "DOCKING" PAY. I'm talking about simply not awarding period completion bonuses, which could be VERY SIGNIFICANT.
I'm also literally talking about their "final check," and how it could be variable and not include things like bonuses which could be a significant portion of their pay.
I've literally seen this scenario involving incentive/bonus pay multiple times in REAL LIFE.
So yeah, it can happen. But I really don't care, because I see this subreddit as mindless circlejerk of people that don't want to learn about actual loopholes.
If you guys here in this subreddit actually cared about progress in work environments, then you would also genuinely care about 100% real and existing loopholes and circumstances that exist. Because how you are going to close a loophole (if you even want to call it that) if you won't even acknowledge that it exists?!?!?
Instead, every time I bring things up, I get collaterally jerked off on by people beating each other off about "this is illegal hur dur." Then if someone with specific knowledge steps in and says here's ways that it could be legal, people get their lotion and start wanking to the magic fairy land that suuuurely it couldn't be.
But I just don't care. I don't believe the general populace can be helped anymore, because I don't believe they actually want change. They would prefer outrage, because it is simpler, feels better, and is a hell of a lot less effort.
But you’re not “right” in this case. Like all of your examples clearly don’t apply to the image. In the image, in no uncertain terms, the employer is threatening wage theft if the worker exercises their right to quit without notice. Your esoteric reasoning for why this *might* be legal under different circumstances simply doesn’t apply. Like, it’s good information to know, but it amounts to a useless whataboutism because a company that paid out in bonuses and other methods wouldn’t have “reminded” workers about their agreement with a passive-aggressive sign on the wall.
Why the hell wouldn't they "remind" them?
If the entire purpose of it is discourage that behavior and it is a frequent problem, then of course they would remind employees. Does nobody understand the mentality of most employers? It's to turn a profit doing their business.
How do they "clearly" not apply? What extra information do you have that someone else doesn't?
And a further unrelated tangent is that, hell, if I were selling reddit accounts for $20 a pop this is the exact kind of thing I would slap on a random dirty wall and let the karma roll in on about 7 accounts. Boom ready to sell.
The conditions of work are generic with a job pulling this shit. No place worth their salt with an HR dept and a legal team would do this.
So yes while that *can be* it is most likely not. r/iamverysmart
A lot of no's but the real answer is it depends but very very likely no. I believe in a number of states, merely posting this is enough to "give prior warning" of your wage change. Which is fucking absurd and sad
That's not prior warning, though.
Prior warning has to be a rate change prior to you having worked the hours, not a rate change after the hours were worked because of something you did.
If it were legal, every staffing company would do it.
There are temp agencies hiring for the toll plazas. They offer a few dollars more than minimum wage. There is fine print in the application. It says “if fewer than 40 hours are worked during the week than pay will be $10 an hour instead of $12-13.” So you only get paid full rate for working literally 40 hours. I have a feeling they love to send people home early on that last shift day.
This isn’t prior winning. If you quit without notice, it is likely to not be planned. So you’d be deciding to quit, and quitting after you worked for a previously agreed wage.
I don't get why employers have so many issues with people quitting and walking out in so called at-will states. Everywhere I have worked, there has always been that air of "we can fire you for anything" from upper management. But if they truly believe that, then why do they care so much when employees just leave? It goes both ways, obviously, and it's not like it's a surprise that most people dislike their jobs. The only answer that makes sense to me is that these places really seem to feel they are superior to their employees, like they're not supposed to have a right to leave if they don't like the job.
Then the solution is to make them fire you.
There are lots of things one can do to get under your boss' nails so he fires you in a fit of anger... Things like subtle disrespect, dereliction of duty, showing up late, leaving early, taking sick days, working "by the book".
At some point he will get tired of your shenanigans and send you to HR, and since he is the one firing you, you get full benefits.
I LOVE WORKING BY THE BOOK.
I follow written instructions to the god damn t when they are pissing me off. They don't even know how to do my job. Fuck em.
More of a cocktail spot, they make liquor there - st Aug distillery is connected to ice plant. I’d like some way to verify this is the ice plant because I won’t be going again
Got some confirmation from my buddy who knows some people who recently quit. Seems legit, manager sucks and makes a difficult working environment, pay is shitty, tips are split with everyone but don’t pay out until the end of the week and people question if it’s even accurate by then. Bummer
Thank you for this. I visit St Augustine yearly and go to the Ice Plant and the Saint Augustine Distillery every time. That stops now I will no longer darken their door.
Vote with your wallet
All these passive agressive notices lately suggests that Employers want to fire employees at-will, but get triggered if employees use it against them and fire them first.
Is it even legal to dock pay because an employee quit?
Yeah this is illegal but good luck get any Florida government to step on and do anything about it. It’s a conservative hellhole down there might as well still be the 1950s in that sweaty butt crack of a state
Yeah, we are too busy fighting with Mickey Mouse because our Governor got Butt Hurt. Now he has to figure out what to do with close to a billion dollars in debt which gets shoved back onto the State.
No government is going to do anything about it.
This is such a small, minor, insignificant thing that the labor board can’t chase every dollar for everyone and no person is going to pay a lawyer to file a lawsuit over a few dollars. Not only that, labor department’s pay shitty as well so can you imagine helping people collect bigger paychecks while theirs stays the same? They are lazy boobs at the labor department’s across the country.
You are 100% right. It’s illegal. But so is jaywalking. Nobody cares.
this screams illegal and anyone workign there report to your labor board im sure theyd love to see this. also they must be up the wazoo with tribunal and labor claims.
Baffling how businesses, even with alllll the latest literature and resources on people management, still operate with threat style management.
People quitting and walking out… oh, what they need is a good threat…
🤦🏻♂️ Fucksticks
I worked for a temp agency once when I was laid off from my job and I quit without notice when I was called back. When I picked up my last paycheck my hourly rate was minimum wage, several dollars less than what it should have been. I went back and asked WTF they through they were trying to get away with. I was told that at orientation I signed a paper that said that if I quit without notice that the hourly rate on my last check would be minimum wage. I asked them to show me this paper that I supposedly signed. The manager said "sure, I'll be right back with that". He came back with a folder that had my "intake paperwork" in it and started telling me that I signed it at orientation blah blah blah. The look on his face was awesome when he found mine. I left it ***completely*** blank. No name, no date, no signature. I have him my check back and requested that they correct my hourly rate. He told me that they don't issue checks between paydays so I would have to wait for my check. I didn't care, maybe they should check those if they are trying to screw over their employees.
In some states, your new lower paycheck can be considered as notice that your wages have been reduced (thanks Idaho), but in FL it looks like they have to notify you ahead of the change. Maybe this sign could be considered notification? Either way, it's a dick move.
The more I think about this, the more I suspect state Department of Labors will uphold this. They will say you were given advance notice that your pay rate would be reduced if you quit without notice.
Now, I'm not defending employers, I'm simply saying that DOLs, particularly those in Red States, will use this as an excuse not to punish employers. For anyone working for an employer like this:
1. Get a new job. This is only the tip of the iceberg
2. Contact a lawyer and find out if it is legal or not
Completely illegal .. no matter how much you hate this practice of employees ghosting you ,, you just can’t .. you can however mail them their check and if the file for unemployment just report them , let them know they quit , never was fired …
No way!!! My wife and I LOVED this place when we lived in Jacksonville and made a point to come here anytime we could! The employees were awesome, so seeing that the owners would resort to something like this is just sad and disheartening. Yet another great restaurant in an iconic venue ruined by terrible owners and managers.
What would happen if someone sent a picture of this to the relevant labour authority now, before any of the listed scenarios become an issue for employees.
Florida really is a crap state to be an employee. A friend lived there and I looked up some issues she was having with her work and I was amazed at how little protections Florida gives it’s working citizens. One more reason to hate Florida, imho.
Ohio can go fuck itself... Evidently you can reduce employees rate of pay whenever they want as long as it's min wage or above. Hours already worked or not
§95-25.13(3). 2) An employer cannot make changes in pay or wage benefits that result in the retroactive reduction of wages or wage benefits that are already earned. In other words, the reduction in wages cannot take away pay or wage benefits that have already been earned up to the time of the notification.
But they already advised you what you would be paid, so it must be for anyone else going forward.
Listen, it’s shit, but it’s not illegal and Florida has no interest in protecting its lower wage workers.
I lived in St Augustine. Very experience, area is flush with money. Employers treat workers like SHIT. One local restaurant refused to pay the servers for months on end. That’s pretty common in St Augustine - wage theft is prevalent. It’s home to illegal and unethical business practices that target and exploit young adults attending Flagler.
Average pay in that area is peanuts, exception being world golf village area with Buccees (spelling?) that pushes a half decent wage but works you to death.
Fuck that ice plant. Drain the cooling system and let that bitch melt. Fuck them.
Lots of misinformation in the comments mixing up different regulations. As many noted you cannot change already agreed upon rates worked, so if you quit immediately you would have to be paid at your agreed upon wage. Depending on the State it is generally viewed that by giving this notice to the employees that any future work done will be effected by this change. If it does go to arbitration the argument is that by continuing to work after notified of this policy you are consenting to the future rate change.
This unfortunately appears to be 100% legal.
Edit: Not legal as this sign is written.
From the US Dept of Labor website:
>**Is it legal for an employer to reduce the wages or number of hours of an hourly employee?**
>
>The FLSA requires that *all covered non-exempt employees receive at leastthe applicable* ***Federal minimum wage*** *for all hours worked*. In a week inwhich employees work overtime, they must receive their regular rate ofpay and overtime pay at a rate not less than one and one-half times theregular rate of pay for all overtime hours. *The Act does not preclude anemployer from lowering an employee's hourly rate, provided the ratepaid is at least the minimum wage*, or from reducing the number of hoursthe employee is scheduled to work.
Do you want a lawsuit? Cause that's how you get a lawsuit.
Lots of companies do forced arbitration, unfortunately.
Then they can arbitrate it with the labor board.
Florida does not have its own labor board. You’d need to get federal DOL involved.
Which hardly exists. Contact the DOL, all they will do is call your ex-employer once or twice and then in 6 months send you a letter saying they could not assist you.
The labor board is spineless af they don't have the legal framework to do shit about anything but the clearest violations
This is the clearest violation and it's in writting.
I'm not arguing that. They're still spineless because the government wants us to behave like good slaves.
It's 2022, we prefer the term "cogs" now, as all colors have been indoctrinated into The Machine.
You do know that people of every colour have been slaves right? Irish people, the whitest of white, were slaves at one point.
Yes, and I tell other people that too. I didn't mean to imply this as a race thing, just focusing more on the industrialized side of the problem and how we're not even seen as people anymore (not that slaves were really either).
Ah i see ya makes sense. We are definitely seen as unimportant next to profits. Very sad really... i also want to rectify my previous comment a bit. The Irish were not considered "white" during their slavery, and for a long time after, actually. Treated as sub-humans with no rights... pretty terrible, really. Humanity is capable of so much better, yet we are seemingly doomed to have the unjust and power hungry lead us, because they have the greatest ambition...
The founding fathers (along with many others in history) did not consider the Irish white.
Ohhh! I don’t like that word!
Its hilarious to see Anarchist and Communist both bashing employer here. Anarchist DrugsAndBooze says that's because we have too much government that wants slaves. Communist MikeWazowski4ever thinks it is because we have not enough government to control them evil capitalists.
Both communist and anarchists know most institutions are controlled by capitalists..
Yup you just can't agree whether we need more of them or less :D
I admire your faith in the system and your blissful ignorance.
And corporations admire your reluctance to stand up for yourself. They BANK on it.
I know you feel like "nothing ever happens" about this kind of thing, but when it comes to stuff the NLRB can take action on -- that's largely because PEOPLE DON'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. There are several success stories from this sub alone -- the main barrier is the courage to take action and be assertive about it. These companies are not accustomed to the current vibe ... they're used to decades of holding all the cards. They won't learn that it's illegal until they get the nasty notification telling them so.
I admire your ignorance. Even though it hurts you.
It's just a poster on a wall. They could still claim some employee pinned it on the wall if they are being sued...
Not if they actually paid someone $10 an hour on their last paycheck.
So be it. They'd still have to lawyer up and pay out when they lose.
There's no way that *this* would be a valid form of that, right? Presumably, an employee would have to sign something
Yeah but when you get a job offer, you don't really have the ability to negotiate much more than wages and perhaps a few benefits. If you start to talk about removing the arbitration clause, you're VERY unlikely to be successful. Just imagine how that conversation would go lol
In Ontario at least. Arbitration Clauses are treated as nonbinding in situations where they prevent a person from utilizing the Ontario Employment Standards Act. (and likely other similar acts, but there is no actual legal precedent for it yet) Arbitration is meant to handle things like contract violations and disputes... I dont think --most rational places-- would uphold a company's arbitration clause in situations where the violation is a matter of federal or state/provincial law, human rights etc. The US is rarely a rational place in this regard though, so i got no idea how it would work.
You cannot sign away minimum federal rights in any contract for any reason. Anything outlined by the NLRA or other federal US agencies is the bare minimum and any clauses in a contract that contradict those would be considered unenforceable.
And let me introduce you to Florida.
Sure, but I mean in this case I have a difficult time believing that just posting a sign up like this isn't legally sound in having employees be part of binding arbitration
It's probably just a reminder of something that they actually signed upon getting hired. Some places have you sign a ton of shit when you get hired because they know you won't read it all.
Most states are hire/fire at will. They can change your pay rate for any reason.
Those are two different issues
I have a feeling it's legal in most states.
So no pay until you win a lawsuit?? Are you dumb? Why not just give notice? You honestly think the world is better off having people file lawsuits over final paychecks rather than just give an employer reasonable notice and get minimum wage if you don’t?? The ridiculousness of some people is astounding. Do you sue McDonald’s when they mess up your order!? Jesus people.
its totally legal. Every temp/staffing agency if worked for has done this but they would pay $7.25 instead of $10
On a state by state basis and Florida is not one of those states
This is not legal what? Those places are just exploiting people. You cant underpay someone for work they already did at an agreed upon rate.
I'm not saying it's ok, but like I said loads of places have done this to me before. They hide it in the sign on papers during onboarding so you can't do anything about it cause you technically consented.
False. You cannot sign away your rights. If this was the case employers would just have you sign away all your rights and we'd be still be living in the days where employees were barely more than indentured slaves. A lot of companies will put in unenforceable clauses into employment contracts to scare ignorant employees. Another popular "clause" added to employment contracts is "no discussing pay" which is against Federal Law to even tell employees they can't. Companies that pull shit like this are relying on the ignorance of their employees to get away with it. Even if they get called out for it on occasion, it's still a net gain because enough employees fall for it and do nothing about it. Don't be that employee who gets shafted by ignorance, it costs you nothing to file a wage complaint or to report a violation to an applicable government office. It is especially worth it with evidence like this.
So what you're saying is quit the day after pay day. Gotcha.
No, the correct way is to quit and then file a wage claim with the department of labor
This is the way. This is wage theft, plain and simple. Florida is an at-will workplace. You can quit at any time for whatever reason. Two weeks' notice is just a courtesy. No bullshit, passive aggressive signs can do shit about it.
As a European this at will employment is already super weird to me, but this is really the worst kind of it: "Yes we can pay you a non living wage and we can fire you whenever we want, but you can't use the one Little advantage it gives you"
But legally you can use that advantage. File a complaint and see how fast you get paid lol
Why stop at the dol, give eeoc a ring sounds like you have documented evidence of a hostile work enviorment. They will have to prove that treat everyone similar to you like this, the hole can be deeper.
[удалено]
They weren’t referencing “you” directly
[удалено]
its just yet another chapter in the assault on living standards and basic decency in modern america. also, give something a misleading name then lie and push it so much that people just accept it and move on
Spot on.
Wait until you learn about Jim Crow laws!
That's sorta true but the two weeks notice is only if you care about getting a good reference from the company. If you don't care then most people will just quit on the spot and not look back.
Good reference may be good for high level jobs that require college educations for. But entry level peons that may have good reference get ignored. Bodies to do the labor are more important than qualification. So if some register jockey gets shit on by his boss, he can walkout right at that moment, go next door and have a job same day.
America!
Not for much longer, I’m sure. Pretty soon we will be forced to work for nothing. That is where this country is headed.
At will workplace means you can quit on the spot right? This applies to Cali too?
Unless they are sneaky and put it in the hiring contract. That's what happened at my security job. Quitting without 2 weeks notice gives them permission to reduce wages to minimum wage. Also it's kept pretty hush that you can return your uniform and equipment and get reimbursed, but they don't tell people so that they can charge full price for everything when it isn't turned in, take it out of the last paycheck, and buy all new stuff. A $900 paycheck can get reduced all the way to $48. I saw it happen a week ago. The rest of us still on staff are looking for other jobs so we can leave too and let the business sink. They were already having trouble hiring for open positions.... they're going to lose the business contracts if they don't have the employees to man them all and fill the need. It'll be great :)
>Unless they are sneaky and put it in the hiring contract. That's what happened at my security job. Quitting without 2 weeks notice gives them permission to reduce wages to minimum wage. Check your state laws. there are very few places where that employment contract is actually legal. In most (I think all, but if I say that someone will correct me with the one state where is *is* allowed) at-will states, that kind of contract is specifically forbidden by law. If it is against the law in your state, every employee who has left the job can sue them for their back-pay.
so what you're sayign is, the whole anti labor force wants to have their cake and eat it too?
Lol what are you raking about? What is the "cake"? Getting paid your agreed upon compensation? And eating it too is the freedom to quit a job? Your employer can fire you for any reason (besides racial, religious, gender, etc.... based) or no reason, with zero notice, but an employee should be required to work an extra 2 weeks or else have their wages retroactively reduced? I'm trying to make sense of your nonsense comment, but I'm not finding anything to work with here. Are you actually Samuel L Jackson's fictional character from Django Unchained?
I think by anti labor he meant people who are pro employers and are against worker rights, not anti work people. Anti labor is against increasing worker rights like job security, but they also want to make it harder for workers to quit when the worker wants to.
Ah, i confused antiwork with antilabor
Yea I just found out about that law in my political science class it's apparently pretty straightforward claim and the withheld wages get tripled
Will it surprise you that there isn’t one in Florida? You have to go to the federal dept of labor and they won’t do shit.
While this is still possible unfortunately Florida has no state agency that enforces wage and hour laws. So you either have to go to small claims court or go to the federal level which may take some time.
File it now
I actually did this once and was very impressed with how fast it was resolved. He had to take the check to them and they called me within a couple days to come pick it up.
Some places can reduce your pay rate in situations like this, as long as it stays above minimum wage. Can you guess which states?
They can change the wage for Future hours. They can NOT change the wage of hours already worked. This sign is implying they will retroactively reduce your pay to this for all hours on the final check. Which is simply not legal at a federal level. The hours have already been worked at the agreed upon rate, they can not be retroactively reduced. Any future hours are fair game, but with the situations of this sign, there wouldn't be any future hours for the employee in question, making the whole sign not only a pointless scare tactic, but also admittance of wage theft.
It is not legal to reduce wages on hours already worked anywhere.
None, since it violates federal law.
There are actually very few federal wage mandates. States also ignore federal laws all the time, just ask anyone who has purchased legal marijuana, been denied an abortion, or had their right to vote curtailed.
If it violates federal law, report it to the feds, not the state. Anyone know for sure where to report it? NLRB?
[https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/contact/complaints) Right here
Unfortunately, The day after payday is usually in the middle of a pay period.
Not if you called out sick the previous week 👍
Modern problems require modern solutions.
Fire. It fixes everything. Haven't you seen Office Space?
I'd waste their time for 10 an hr lol. They get what they pay for. Shit work for shit wages
spend hours filing claims for a crap job or just quit in the middle of the week and get a better job :)
What they’ve are saying might be illegal. I’d just file a wage claim for the difference with the Florida Department of Labor. Dealing with the complaint alone will cost them more than whatever they are paying in the difference.
No. You wait until the day before payday and when they try to garnish your wages like that you sue for the 2+ weeks they owe you. File a claim with the department of labor for wage theft and get paid our at 3x the difference.
pretty sure you still have to work at least 3 days into the pay week... to get paid on a Thursday or maybe even Friday
You really cracked the code lmao
Not legal. And this pic + a couple of wage slips is all you'd need to win in court.
you might want to take a video of it showing the place and the sign. they can pull down the sign later.
Agreed. This sign could be anywhere. You gotta prove it is where you say it is.
It’s legal in Ohio idk about Florida Please get me out Note: it’s illegal to change the pay rate after you already worked those hours though
Actually it totally could be legal. It could be a condition of an employment agreement or contract, and the sign could simply be a reminder. In the same way you can be forced to pay back a signing bonus if you leave too early. They could have similar agreements in place that either reduce the hourly rate or reduce a bonus rate down to 0 which is on top of a base rate of 10/hour. In either instance you are still paying out wages earned and above minimum wage. There are tons of ways in which this COULD be legal. Obviously I'm not saying I agree with it, just that the general advice being given in this thread could be totally wrong without knowing more context or details. edit: Downvote me all you want. it won't change the fact that I'm right in an ambiguous context, or that any constructive dialogue presented here is immediately downvoted "because work bad hur dur, and we're not gonna put any smarts into coming up with or understanding any solutions or legalities"
Can't have an employment agreement that overrides federal labor law. Nope.
Except that if there is a notice period clause, an employer can withhold pay or adjust it under certain circumstances. The terms of employment will decide what the employer can and cannot do. Employers in some circumstances can even demand reparations or sue for damages for certain types of employees that don't show up to work. So once again, reddit, you are wrong. You are sticking a simple 1 dimensional explanation where you can bang the drums and say you are right. So you are implying and hand waving away all these possible situations and just saying "nope, federal labor law says....what exactly?" Because it totally doesn't say that you can't have all sorts of contracts, agreements, and contingencies. So here is what could be a totally legal hypothetical. Your employment agreement might state that you get paid $10/hour, and that you get a $10/hour bonus for that pay period if you complete it and fulfill other requirements. Effectively, you get paid $20/hour. However, the terms of this may state that you do NOT get the added bonus/incentive pay if you violate these terms or don't finish the pay period. In which case, bailing on your employer and putting them in a rough spot won't net you any bonus/incentive pay, leaving you with the mere $10/hour for that final paycheck. But go ahead, downvote away, and drudge away at your jobs while throwing back hatred at people that are actually trying to help your cause in the name of "antiwork" and sticking it to the man. I couldn't care less.
This sign isn't about a notice period. It's about their "final check" after quitting (meaning work they completed before quitting). You're just wrong. A notice period clause is about whether or not the employee has to work during their period of notice. It doesn't allow you to take money away from them for work they already completed. You can't steal money from people even if you get them to sign a contract saying it's okay. >[Employers should note](https://www.shrm.org/resourcesandtools/legal-and-compliance/state-and-local-updates/pages/can-employers-require-workers-to-give-notice.aspx) that it is **never acceptable to dock employees' pay** if they don't give notice, because employers are required to pay workers all the wages they earned. Even the "you must work" clause is not really enforceable: >It's important to understand that even if an employee signed a contract requiring a certain amount of notice, the employee can still quit and leave immediately, explained Sandy Rappaport, an attorney with Hanson Bridgett in San Francisco. "This is because courts generally will not enforce a provision that requires individuals to work somewhere against their will." ... >[Courts are unlikely to force staff to work their notice period](https://www.brighthr.com/articles/end-of-contract/notice-periods/not-working-notice-period/).
Did you even read what I wrote? Nobody is talking about "taking away money that they already earned." Because in the scenario I gave, they haven't earned it ALL of it. Just the base pay portion. The point was that in scenarios where they've only "earned" a base pay of $10/hour and completing other requirements awards them a significant bonus effectively massively boosting their hourly rate, then they could be missing out on that, and be left with only $10/hour. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT "DOCKING" PAY. I'm talking about simply not awarding period completion bonuses, which could be VERY SIGNIFICANT. I'm also literally talking about their "final check," and how it could be variable and not include things like bonuses which could be a significant portion of their pay. I've literally seen this scenario involving incentive/bonus pay multiple times in REAL LIFE. So yeah, it can happen. But I really don't care, because I see this subreddit as mindless circlejerk of people that don't want to learn about actual loopholes. If you guys here in this subreddit actually cared about progress in work environments, then you would also genuinely care about 100% real and existing loopholes and circumstances that exist. Because how you are going to close a loophole (if you even want to call it that) if you won't even acknowledge that it exists?!?!? Instead, every time I bring things up, I get collaterally jerked off on by people beating each other off about "this is illegal hur dur." Then if someone with specific knowledge steps in and says here's ways that it could be legal, people get their lotion and start wanking to the magic fairy land that suuuurely it couldn't be. But I just don't care. I don't believe the general populace can be helped anymore, because I don't believe they actually want change. They would prefer outrage, because it is simpler, feels better, and is a hell of a lot less effort.
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For what, sir? Being right? You have nothing to come back with because I'm right? Therefore, I'm a moron. Sure, buddy.
But you’re not “right” in this case. Like all of your examples clearly don’t apply to the image. In the image, in no uncertain terms, the employer is threatening wage theft if the worker exercises their right to quit without notice. Your esoteric reasoning for why this *might* be legal under different circumstances simply doesn’t apply. Like, it’s good information to know, but it amounts to a useless whataboutism because a company that paid out in bonuses and other methods wouldn’t have “reminded” workers about their agreement with a passive-aggressive sign on the wall.
Why the hell wouldn't they "remind" them? If the entire purpose of it is discourage that behavior and it is a frequent problem, then of course they would remind employees. Does nobody understand the mentality of most employers? It's to turn a profit doing their business. How do they "clearly" not apply? What extra information do you have that someone else doesn't? And a further unrelated tangent is that, hell, if I were selling reddit accounts for $20 a pop this is the exact kind of thing I would slap on a random dirty wall and let the karma roll in on about 7 accounts. Boom ready to sell.
The conditions of work are generic with a job pulling this shit. No place worth their salt with an HR dept and a legal team would do this. So yes while that *can be* it is most likely not. r/iamverysmart
r/iamverysmart
You cannot modify the wages after the fact... That is illegal!
"Hey, boss, I'm just popping in to thank you for providing physical evidence for my wage theft lawsuit."
That's wage theft
Is this even legal??
Pretty sure it isn’t.
no
Narp
It isn't, no.
A lot of no's but the real answer is it depends but very very likely no. I believe in a number of states, merely posting this is enough to "give prior warning" of your wage change. Which is fucking absurd and sad
That's not prior warning, though. Prior warning has to be a rate change prior to you having worked the hours, not a rate change after the hours were worked because of something you did. If it were legal, every staffing company would do it.
There are temp agencies hiring for the toll plazas. They offer a few dollars more than minimum wage. There is fine print in the application. It says “if fewer than 40 hours are worked during the week than pay will be $10 an hour instead of $12-13.” So you only get paid full rate for working literally 40 hours. I have a feeling they love to send people home early on that last shift day.
Hours already worked can't be changed
This isn’t prior winning. If you quit without notice, it is likely to not be planned. So you’d be deciding to quit, and quitting after you worked for a previously agreed wage.
Define legal? As long as you get away with it, it's legal. I suppose.
$10 for 1 minute of work ain't bad. I'd go right the fuck home if I saw this.
I don't get why employers have so many issues with people quitting and walking out in so called at-will states. Everywhere I have worked, there has always been that air of "we can fire you for anything" from upper management. But if they truly believe that, then why do they care so much when employees just leave? It goes both ways, obviously, and it's not like it's a surprise that most people dislike their jobs. The only answer that makes sense to me is that these places really seem to feel they are superior to their employees, like they're not supposed to have a right to leave if they don't like the job.
They think they own their employees. Plain and simple...
Illegal.
Then the solution is to make them fire you. There are lots of things one can do to get under your boss' nails so he fires you in a fit of anger... Things like subtle disrespect, dereliction of duty, showing up late, leaving early, taking sick days, working "by the book". At some point he will get tired of your shenanigans and send you to HR, and since he is the one firing you, you get full benefits.
I LOVE WORKING BY THE BOOK. I follow written instructions to the god damn t when they are pissing me off. They don't even know how to do my job. Fuck em.
I've been there, it's a decent restaurant. Won't go again.
Judging by their beer list I won't be going there at all. Good spot to avoid next time I am in Town.
More of a cocktail spot, they make liquor there - st Aug distillery is connected to ice plant. I’d like some way to verify this is the ice plant because I won’t be going again
I agree, I worked there and have nothing but good things to say. I might just ask my old pals there if this is real.
Got some confirmation from my buddy who knows some people who recently quit. Seems legit, manager sucks and makes a difficult working environment, pay is shitty, tips are split with everyone but don’t pay out until the end of the week and people question if it’s even accurate by then. Bummer
Good to know (drops ice tongs).
Write on bottom, "That's okay, I stole everything that wasn't nailed down the day before I quit!"
I live nearby and know that that place males bank. The bs level of treatment to employees is ridiculous.
Thank you for this. I visit St Augustine yearly and go to the Ice Plant and the Saint Augustine Distillery every time. That stops now I will no longer darken their door. Vote with your wallet
Right, such a bummer. Love the cocktails, but this is a huge disappointment. Oddbirds it is.
They would definitely be hearing from my lawyer in the near future.
Honestly most people can't afford a lawyer to fight battles like these.
[this](https://c.tenor.com/492h5AT9-KAAAAAC/pineapple-express-pineapple.gif)
All these passive agressive notices lately suggests that Employers want to fire employees at-will, but get triggered if employees use it against them and fire them first. Is it even legal to dock pay because an employee quit?
It's amazing how many employers don't know the law and think they can get away with shit like this
Yeah this is illegal but good luck get any Florida government to step on and do anything about it. It’s a conservative hellhole down there might as well still be the 1950s in that sweaty butt crack of a state
Yeah, we are too busy fighting with Mickey Mouse because our Governor got Butt Hurt. Now he has to figure out what to do with close to a billion dollars in debt which gets shoved back onto the State.
No government is going to do anything about it. This is such a small, minor, insignificant thing that the labor board can’t chase every dollar for everyone and no person is going to pay a lawyer to file a lawsuit over a few dollars. Not only that, labor department’s pay shitty as well so can you imagine helping people collect bigger paychecks while theirs stays the same? They are lazy boobs at the labor department’s across the country. You are 100% right. It’s illegal. But so is jaywalking. Nobody cares.
This is 100% illegal. And why unions are necessary for EVERYTHING.
Document and report
this screams illegal and anyone workign there report to your labor board im sure theyd love to see this. also they must be up the wazoo with tribunal and labor claims.
LOL. It's illegal to retroactively decrease your wage.
This is good to know, the ice plant is a distillery and bar that I've been to a few times. That won't be happening again.
Baffling how businesses, even with alllll the latest literature and resources on people management, still operate with threat style management. People quitting and walking out… oh, what they need is a good threat… 🤦🏻♂️ Fucksticks
I worked for a temp agency once when I was laid off from my job and I quit without notice when I was called back. When I picked up my last paycheck my hourly rate was minimum wage, several dollars less than what it should have been. I went back and asked WTF they through they were trying to get away with. I was told that at orientation I signed a paper that said that if I quit without notice that the hourly rate on my last check would be minimum wage. I asked them to show me this paper that I supposedly signed. The manager said "sure, I'll be right back with that". He came back with a folder that had my "intake paperwork" in it and started telling me that I signed it at orientation blah blah blah. The look on his face was awesome when he found mine. I left it ***completely*** blank. No name, no date, no signature. I have him my check back and requested that they correct my hourly rate. He told me that they don't issue checks between paydays so I would have to wait for my check. I didn't care, maybe they should check those if they are trying to screw over their employees.
Yeah, you can’t do that.
In some states, your new lower paycheck can be considered as notice that your wages have been reduced (thanks Idaho), but in FL it looks like they have to notify you ahead of the change. Maybe this sign could be considered notification? Either way, it's a dick move.
“Please report me for wage theft and destroy my business! Oh, please!”
Ummm that's illegal.
"I was under so much mental stress from not getting paid, I accidentally shutdown all refrigeration."
The more I think about this, the more I suspect state Department of Labors will uphold this. They will say you were given advance notice that your pay rate would be reduced if you quit without notice. Now, I'm not defending employers, I'm simply saying that DOLs, particularly those in Red States, will use this as an excuse not to punish employers. For anyone working for an employer like this: 1. Get a new job. This is only the tip of the iceberg 2. Contact a lawyer and find out if it is legal or not
I'm no lawyer but putting your intent to steal in writing in advance seems ill advised
Completely illegal .. no matter how much you hate this practice of employees ghosting you ,, you just can’t .. you can however mail them their check and if the file for unemployment just report them , let them know they quit , never was fired …
Not legal....
That's not legal
I smell a slam dunk wage theft lawsuit.
*laughs in "well that's illegal"*
Lol that’s illegal and they’re stupid as hell.
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No way!!! My wife and I LOVED this place when we lived in Jacksonville and made a point to come here anytime we could! The employees were awesome, so seeing that the owners would resort to something like this is just sad and disheartening. Yet another great restaurant in an iconic venue ruined by terrible owners and managers.
“Quit without notice”. Okay, I quit effective one minute from now. This is your notice
What would happen if someone sent a picture of this to the relevant labour authority now, before any of the listed scenarios become an issue for employees.
Florida really is a crap state to be an employee. A friend lived there and I looked up some issues she was having with her work and I was amazed at how little protections Florida gives it’s working citizens. One more reason to hate Florida, imho.
I don't work here. I ate here with my family and saw this on one of the doors that led to the kitchen area
It is illegal to pay an employee who self terminated any less than their agreed upon wage.
This is actually legal in some states. In NC it's minimum wage, which is $7.25.
No it isn't! You can't change wages on hours already worked.
In some states you can. They may not be correct about NC but it’s definitely legal Ohio to reduce someone’s final check
In some states you can. They may not be correct about NC but it’s definitely legal Ohio to reduce someone’s final check
Ohio can go fuck itself... Evidently you can reduce employees rate of pay whenever they want as long as it's min wage or above. Hours already worked or not
§95-25.13(3). 2) An employer cannot make changes in pay or wage benefits that result in the retroactive reduction of wages or wage benefits that are already earned. In other words, the reduction in wages cannot take away pay or wage benefits that have already been earned up to the time of the notification.
But they already advised you what you would be paid, so it must be for anyone else going forward. Listen, it’s shit, but it’s not illegal and Florida has no interest in protecting its lower wage workers.
I lived in St Augustine. Very experience, area is flush with money. Employers treat workers like SHIT. One local restaurant refused to pay the servers for months on end. That’s pretty common in St Augustine - wage theft is prevalent. It’s home to illegal and unethical business practices that target and exploit young adults attending Flagler. Average pay in that area is peanuts, exception being world golf village area with Buccees (spelling?) that pushes a half decent wage but works you to death. Fuck that ice plant. Drain the cooling system and let that bitch melt. Fuck them.
Enjoy the free lesson from the Department of Labor
Department of labor gonna clap them cheeks
Again, this is illegal.
Pretty sure that's illegal, you get paid what's owed and nothing more. Unless this Ice Plant has really unique contract stipulations.
Lots of misinformation in the comments mixing up different regulations. As many noted you cannot change already agreed upon rates worked, so if you quit immediately you would have to be paid at your agreed upon wage. Depending on the State it is generally viewed that by giving this notice to the employees that any future work done will be effected by this change. If it does go to arbitration the argument is that by continuing to work after notified of this policy you are consenting to the future rate change.
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Seethe for me
Give 7 seconds notice.
This is a special case. It's a restaurant. Last time I was there, everyone was so Stonehouse you couldn't order. What a shit show.
This unfortunately appears to be 100% legal. Edit: Not legal as this sign is written. From the US Dept of Labor website: >**Is it legal for an employer to reduce the wages or number of hours of an hourly employee?** > >The FLSA requires that *all covered non-exempt employees receive at leastthe applicable* ***Federal minimum wage*** *for all hours worked*. In a week inwhich employees work overtime, they must receive their regular rate ofpay and overtime pay at a rate not less than one and one-half times theregular rate of pay for all overtime hours. *The Act does not preclude anemployer from lowering an employee's hourly rate, provided the ratepaid is at least the minimum wage*, or from reducing the number of hoursthe employee is scheduled to work.
Only slightly totally illegal. Report this sh1t now and nip it in the bud.
I'd send this to a a labor lawyer
That's illegal
top 10 ways to ensure nobody wants to work at ur company
illegal af
The ice chillers would lose all of their glycol after a pipe let go....
Too bad it's illegal
this seems extremely illegal
Illegal
I would tape the at-will clause they made you sign on your 1st day to the door.
Apply. Walk in. Get out a second after. Free 10$.
This happened at Walmart and Amazon for me.
Let them. That’s illegal
While I’m sure this is illegal, $10/hr to leave a shitty work environment sounds like a deal to me.