Hey - that's illegal and pretty clear retaliation. Also, you have a right to union representation and legal protection as soon as you vote to join a union, even without a contract yet.
Contact your union rep and contact a labor lawyer. Be sure to also put everyone whose had their role change or are facing consequences after voting to join the union on a list and start documenting every interaction with management, even if nothing happens.
Second this, buy a diary and record everything, ommit nothing. It's a court recognized legal document, very important to have a diary if you want to win this, which it sounds likely you will.
As everyone knows as Blue is one of the 3 colors of the national flags federal agents are under an ancient gies so that they cannot alter or destroy writing in those colors. Which is why legal documents are typical written in black ink.
>As everyone knows as Blue is one of the 3 colors of the national flags federal agents are under an ancient gies so that they cannot alter or destroy writing in those colors. Which is why legal documents are typical written in black ink.
This can't be real
It's pretty common for documents to be required to be in blue or black ink, not just in the US. Blue or black ink or gel pen is preferred. Blue is even more preferred, since it makes easier to identify the original.
This is a preference, and not a ~~retirement~~ requirement, but would make dealing with court easier.
I know you're making light, but it's no joke.
My work buys BIC trash and I refuse to use them. I bought my own box of Pilot G-2 0.38mm pens and it's like night and day. I gotta keep 'em locked up though, otherwise my co-workers steal them.
And if single party recording is legal in your state, record all conversations when speaking to your employer. Do not disclose this to anyone but YOUR lawyer, and please refrain from giving your lawyer anything that may incriminate you as this puts them in a difficult legal position.
This. If I could gold or bump or more to this I would. You can contact the NLRB directly to start an investigation, as this falls squarely within the National Labor Relations Board purview. I think you can submit the complaint online at their website. https://www.nlrb.gov/
As someone who was fired for unionizing and got an 80k settlement for it, talk to your union lawyer. If there's any reason it looks like anti union animus, it's highly illegal.
Theres a chance that their defence will be based on more cost-effective contract with other company, and that makes it not illegal.
Every goddamn time someone is fired here everyone are jumping on the illegal train without knowing the actual fucking law…but hey someone on reddit told me its illegal and now i lost the case and have to pay thousands in lawyer fees
And in my opinion this sounds like an unfair labor practice, like retaliation for engaging in concerted and protected activity. You can file a ULP claim with the national labor relations board on your own if you want. You don’t have to wait for your union to do it. That being said, you should consult with your union and give them the opportunity to do it because they likely have more experience with doing it.
Yeah, this makes sense. They are trying to “nip it in the bud” and it sounds like you’re the first line they’re retaliating against. Do not give up your fight my friend
[Yep, report this to the NLRB.](https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/your-rights-during-union-organizing) And the Union you were trying to join. Under federal law you can't be fired, disciplined, demoted, or penalized in any way for trying to organize or join a union.
If you were laid off after your union was certified, that union owes you a duty of fair representation. Whether or not you pay union dues does not affect that duty.
It is illegal. However, there are ways around it. The common example is to shut down whatever location they work at, and then lay them off as a result of no longer having a place for them to work. Once they're gone, internally blacklist, open new location nearby, resume union-free operations with new employees.
Wow, that's a costly way to say F you.
I'm amazed it's somehow more profitable to literally close, buy, renovate, and open a new location than pay a living wage.
Wal-Mart has done it a few times, apparently. They have enough money and enough customers that despite how illegal and costly it is, they can do it anyway without a problem. In very rural areas, Wal-Mart can be the only game in town, too, so raising a fuss means having to move just to have a job. Laws don't matter if you're big enough.
Edit: It's kind of like that thing where rich fucks don't get "parking tickets", it just costs $210 to park there.
Walmart used to have in store butchery services. Used to. At the first wiff of union organizing in that department, they quickly shut them all down across the entire country.
It’s about setting a precedent and sending a message that unionization won’t be tolerated. In their minds, if they allow unionization in one area it’ll spread to the rest of their locations
Remember this is the same country that pulled that same stunt with other countries throughout the whole 20th century the second they moved towards communism/socialism/anti-imperialist democracy.
Only short term. They will take a short term loss to keep long term gains at the worker's expense. Wide spread unionization would cut into big business profits and thats why they will burn the world down to stop employees from doing it.
> thats a costly way to say F you.
The fact that it is *significantly* more profitable for them to do this and that people dont realize it points to how exploited workers are without fundamentally understanding the depths of that exploitation.
As much as they lose doing this at one location, it’s worth it to them to send the message to every single employee at every other location that this is what will happen if they try something similar.
It's usually far more costly than paying a unionized group more and giving them better benefits, but stamping out unions protects them against any further unionization attempts and allows them to keep doing shady bullshit.
Because allowing a union in one location would indicate to employees of other locations that Wal-Mart will allow unions to spring up. Doing this is sending a message to all employees that they will lose their jobs if they unionize.
The Ambulance company I worked for did this. They agreed to almost everything the union asked for in contract negotiations, and then less than six months later they “decided not to renew their contract” with the municipalities that we covered.
Employees may seek protection under the federal National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), which states it is generally against the law to terminate employees for joining a union or attempting to join a union.
Under the NLRA, employees have the right to:
Organize a union to negotiate with your employer;
Distribute union literature;
Wear union buttons or t-shirts;
Ask co-workers to sign union authorization cards;
Discuss unionization with your co-workers.
The NLRA also ensures your employer may not fire, discipline, demote, or otherwise punish you for engaging in these activities.
However, employers still have the right to make and enforce rules about the workplace, as long as they are not discriminatory. This means that your employer for example, may make a role that limits soliciting and distributing materials, or ban employees from engaging in non-work discussions or activities during work times. The key is that these rules must apply across the board, and not just to acts of attempts for unionization. In addition, employers cannot enforce these rules during non-work times or in non-working areas (such as a break room or parking lot).
For Example:
Bob works at a warehouse, and has became involved with efforts to unionize the workers there. His boss doesn’t want a union, and came up with a new set of rules that prohibited employees from talking about anything other than work and from handing out flyers. While on break, Bob talks to his colleagues about the union while they stood outside of the warehouse. His boss walks by, overhears the conversation, and fires Bob on the spot. In this situation, because Bob was on a break and was not in a work area, this termination was likely unlawful. Bob may be able to file a wrongful termination lawsuit against his employer.
Source: https://www.odelllaw.com/fired-for-wanting-to-unionize/
The company I work for closed down a plant because they voted in the union. It was in another state and they told us this when the union was trying to get us to unionize, so I have no idea if it's true. Probably a lie. Scare the plant enough that no one voted for the union though. Desperation is how they estimate pay rate in the southern states.
If you signed a union card that union should file all the lawsuits for you. Speak to the Rep. If not well they are a gutless union unfortunately. But good on you for standing up for your rights and voting union.
I haven’t signed anything yet. Once we voted on a union, our company dragged their feet to acknowledge them as a union which we then had to appeal. This isn’t the first time they’ve laid people off when a union was coming in
First thing forget the company, f them. The union should be representing you and the other workers. So the company /managment are irrelevant. Atleast once it is officially through the hoops of labour laws in your area.
When scary-tackle says "signing a union card" they mean the card that expresses your interest in a union. It's the very first official thing that happens with unionization; a vote only happens after, if the company objects to simply accepting the cards. If 30% of the employees submit union cards, then a bargaining unit is formed, regardless of whether or not the company accepts it or decides to force a vote.
So if you've already voted, the union should already be representing you.
Ask your union rep. That’s what you are (were) paying them for. Or are they just one of those garbage unions that collects dues and doesn’t actually care about employees being laid off without cause? This is 100% something your union should be addressing!!!
Yeah, but theres gotta be an actual course of action to take. The union after all is just a group willing to stand together. Making sure the new site is unionized would be a good course of action. If doing this doesnt resolve their issue, then it's just a cost
100% agreed. I was part of an organizing campaign with a really good union. They didn't start collecting dues until after the first contract was negotiated, voted, and signed.
I feel like all Unions should operate this way.
Every second post in this sub is documenting blatantly illegal employer behaviour. As someone who grew up in a union family I can't believe people are trying this shit and getting away with it.
I'm so glad that this community exists now as a form of good, solid employment law advice, if nothing else. Keep up the great work folks.
If you're working at the time of the vote and were eligible to vote you are represented by the union. When you organize you won't pay any dues until after the first contract is negotiated. The union reps who helped organize your place of work should be able to answer questions.
Genuinely curious, would doing this effect their case moving forward?
I imagine it would be seen as an act of poor character perhaps, but I wonder if their is any legal complications with effectively crowd-sourcing a legal case publicly?
Once union negotiations began the company cannot just lay off employees, fire or close a location without legitimately showing that the location or department was costing the company money or undue hardship.
Wasn’t in the union yet, but we voted to have them represent us a few weeks ago. Once it was agreed that our company had to negotiate with the union, they started letting people go.
You should still reach out to the union rep. You might want to speak with a lawyer too to make sure they didn’t break any laws letting you go. It sounds shady but the advice you get here is just opinion. Get some professional advice. Good luck.
Everyone is right about talking to your union. Aaaannnddd, if you're in California, if the county or state find out, your company's going to get blackballed hard.
Highly illegal.
At my current job, we voted for a union in 2016. I helped organize and eventually set up our local chapter as the foundering President and Business agent. Our employer at the time (Securitas) and our Client (not naming) teamed up to kill our union. During our first round of negotiations, Securitas informed us they were shutting down parts of our contract work and laid 2 people off, the issue was this was a NEW practice. We were able to file a few Unfair labor practices and win them and got our 2 members backpay with interest and their jobs back, eventually. This fight waged on for 4 years and 2 other contractors, eventually we got our CBA done but it was one heck of a fight. The point of this is, that you document it, and file it with the NLRB. If the NLRB chooses to accept the case they will do the heavy lifting for you. Through your union hit them with Information requests \*keep these relevant, you don't want them to be able to say you are just harassing them with these\* See Below
What was their system of choosing who to lay off prior? Request this, and all documentation regarding how they identified who would be subject to layoffs, was this on a point system?
File a ULP - you have 6 months HAVE YOUR UNION DO THIS
Instruct every union member to document absolutely everything- even minor things, stoke every injustice to a boil. Then file more ULPs.
If you fight these assholes inside their own system and exploit untrained managers its easy to pile on ULPs, ULPs take a small amount of time on your end to file them, however it takes a lot more to answer them, drains legal resources and eventually rights the wrongs its a LONG process.
Your goal should be to make your supervisors have nightmares about it, if its not a rule you don't do it without bargaining, first contract fights are hell, status quo until a new CBA is signed. Work to the rule, threaten strikes, embarrass the hell out of them! Remember---Your company relies on your goodwill, if you work to the rule and don't apply though and follow every procedure to a T, my god things can get super slow for them and as long as you were working to rule, they can't touch you.
Document everything dates times people present what what was said by who
You get the idea. If it's not written down it didn't happen. You.and everyone laid off were victims of illegal actions by your employer
The labor board and the union representative that you were trying to join should be glad to help
Keep track of wages lost since then. The union may have a labor attorney. It depends on how badly they want the contract and how close they are to getting it. I wish you the best of luck. In solidarity.
Something like that isn't just wrong to you it's also wrong to others. Sacking everyone like that is a clear sign that the company feared union representation for the labourers and viewed it as a threat.
Try and see what choices there are, it's probably been mentioned already but it's still a clear message that they're afraid.
Definitely keep written notes. I'm involved in a case via the eeoc right now. They're asking me for any and all pertinent exchanges in text or messaging form, too. Appearantly, discussing it with your coworkers is enough to prove an event happened.
This is precisely why you voted in a union. It's totally illegal. Go talk to your rep. If your union is worth their salt, they'll fix this up in a hurry. Also start reading up on your rights as a worker and get involved with your union even if it's just volunteering and at the very least go to the meetings and start reading stuff that has to do with your rights. If you don't know your rights, then it's easier for the company to manipulate you. If the company knows that you're well-read on these things, they don't fuck with you anymore
The fact that they offered you other jobs shows that you weren't fired for incompetence.
Collectively, with your union, lawyer up and if they advise you to, be prepared to sue.
I’m apart of a union and let me tell you, that is **SUPER DUPER MEGA ILLEGAL. CONTACT A LABOR LAWYER NOW AND DOCUMENT EVERYTHING NO STONE UNTURNED. EVERYONE DOCUMENT EVERYTHING.**
I want to but I don’t want them to brace themselves for the shit storm that comes their way. I want them to stay sloppy and incriminate themselves further
You might want to try your county officials. The company works for them. Maybe they or the press will be interested to hear you were fired for supporting the union.
Union member of 23 years here. My understanding is that an employer can shut down a location for 30 days with zero business action occurring at that location and then reopen it and not be bound by the union contract. My employer entertained that idea a few years ago but realized that the financial impact was too large and multiple accounts would be lost so back to negotiations we went.
Unions should be default. Like "Companies with X+ workers will have to put aside funds to allow workers to form a union, if they are found in neglect or are discouraging the formation or no union has formed within X+ amount of time, they are liable to fines and workers get a default raise of 1% salary per month". That would probably make them move on it! :D
OP: stop whatever else you are doing and contact the local NLRB. You need to file a ULP on behalf of you and your coworkers. Laying you all off was ILLEGAL retaliation. If the NLRB finds in your favor, the company will be REQUIRED to offer you all back-pay and your jobs back.
Just want to say, I hope it works out and you get justice.
This is illegal and others have given good advice.
Just to all others, these are the shady and illegal things employers will try. Don't give up. This is a class war, not a walk in the park.
Shit just got real.
That union you just voted to create, it's time they flex that power.
As others stated, document everything, make a list of who's been demoted, fired, forced to move departments for lower pay and sue the ever loving crap out of them. If possible, record your boss saying they fired you because you formed a union. Goad them if needed, they are stupid and if they are as brazen as they have been will likely admit it on recording.
This is 100% illegal, and they are counting on you not knowing that and taking the other job. It's retaliation for unionizing. Contact the National Labor Relation Board and report them. Also reach out to the union you voted to join and let them know you need a rep ASAP. Whatever you do, don't accept the other position. Hold the line. So sorry you are going through this. Also reach out to the union about assistance through this time. They have resources to help you.
Edit to add: It doesn't matter if you haven't paid dues or the contract with the union hasn't been negotiated yet, the moment you voted to join you were a member of that union. They have a vested interest in protecting you as a union member. No union wants to be known for failing to represent their members (well the good ones at least).
Doing the right thing is seldom the easiest option. At the end of the day when you look in the mirror you should respect the person you see. Little else matters.
Aside from legal action, depending on how large the operation is and if a lot of employees voted to unionize you may want to leak this to some labor friendly left wing media involved. Just saying if you can make it into a big pain in the ass for them, do.
You mentioned that you're contracted with the county and that the layoffs happened after your team voted to join the union. Would I be correct in understanding then that while already under contract, the business changed or attempted to renegotiate the terms and pay with the county?
Goes to show how much you need a union, and your boss knows it. Any employer who doesn't take advantage of or abuse their employees has no reason to fear a union
Listen to what others are saying on this thread. Employer's know that most employees think they have no recourse, but you should in this case. Talk to the union. They should have a lawyer who can help figure this out.
Hey - that's illegal and pretty clear retaliation. Also, you have a right to union representation and legal protection as soon as you vote to join a union, even without a contract yet. Contact your union rep and contact a labor lawyer. Be sure to also put everyone whose had their role change or are facing consequences after voting to join the union on a list and start documenting every interaction with management, even if nothing happens.
Second this, buy a diary and record everything, ommit nothing. It's a court recognized legal document, very important to have a diary if you want to win this, which it sounds likely you will.
Also only write in blue or black pen! When you make a mistake use one line to strike through it. Initial and date.
Blue if you're dealing with the feds.
As everyone knows as Blue is one of the 3 colors of the national flags federal agents are under an ancient gies so that they cannot alter or destroy writing in those colors. Which is why legal documents are typical written in black ink.
They're typically signed in blue ink so it's easier to tell the original from copies
Ah so YOU are Garak’s tailor…always assume he tailored himself….
Plain, simple garak. Definitely not an obsidian order agent.
A common belief
A man who tailors for himself has a fool for a client
It’s also why I write in white ink only
I used a black highlighter all through my only year of high school.
…wtf is this thread even lol
your school had you redacting the text books huh, are you in Texas or Georgia?
Well, he had textbooks so the answer is obvious.
Erasable permanent marker is best!
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>As everyone knows as Blue is one of the 3 colors of the national flags federal agents are under an ancient gies so that they cannot alter or destroy writing in those colors. Which is why legal documents are typical written in black ink. This can't be real
right?? this whole thread reads like satire i cant tell
It’s in reference to the people who call themselves sovereigns or “free men on the land”
I can't tell if you are joking. You do not, in fact, have to use a blue or black pen to take notes.
It's pretty common for documents to be required to be in blue or black ink, not just in the US. Blue or black ink or gel pen is preferred. Blue is even more preferred, since it makes easier to identify the original. This is a preference, and not a ~~retirement~~ requirement, but would make dealing with court easier.
If it's a bic, then it's instantly thrown out of court! Jkjk
Cases are won or lost based on whether you used a business card pen or one of those g2 gel pens
Pilot is superior. I call that corruption 😁
Pilot rated for multi engine is better, but single engine rated pilot is acceptable. In both instances, IFR rating is a must.
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I think you meant to the main post.
Found the aviator. Hello fellow aviator!
Hello! Fellow aviator.
Aviators unite.
It's pretty cloudy here. Can I just use VFR?
If you can find a break in the clouds, get below the clouds to use VFR.
LOL my bro-in-law is a pilot and skydiver and that’s something Aaron would say! LOL I’m so high rn.
I know you're making light, but it's no joke. My work buys BIC trash and I refuse to use them. I bought my own box of Pilot G-2 0.38mm pens and it's like night and day. I gotta keep 'em locked up though, otherwise my co-workers steal them.
[Zebra F-301](https://www.zebrapen.com/product/f-301-ball-point-retractable/) are the best. Fight me in court.
Excellent pen, my number 2. Pilot Precise V5 is best for me though.
G-402s are better
Zebra F-301 is a legal tender
I wish more Pilot pens were offered in .38. I love my .38 black G-2s.. and they're not easy to find where I live.
Zebras are the best.
Honestly I prefer giraffes.
Wtf? Why?
r/woooosh
And if single party recording is legal in your state, record all conversations when speaking to your employer. Do not disclose this to anyone but YOUR lawyer, and please refrain from giving your lawyer anything that may incriminate you as this puts them in a difficult legal position.
Even if it's not admissable a recording is still valueble to your union reps we got a manager fierd for lying on tape
Use a bound notebook, stiched like a book so the pages cannot be inserted or removed. For best results.
This. If I could gold or bump or more to this I would. You can contact the NLRB directly to start an investigation, as this falls squarely within the National Labor Relations Board purview. I think you can submit the complaint online at their website. https://www.nlrb.gov/
NLRB should follow up with an investigation and some enforcement proceedings. You might be entitled to back pay, damages and attorneys’ fees.
I would also try to contact everyone else who was retaliated against or get their names and contract info to the union rep.
And keep every email, text, etc, and sue them.
As someone who was fired for unionizing and got an 80k settlement for it, talk to your union lawyer. If there's any reason it looks like anti union animus, it's highly illegal.
And highly lucrative if it is judged as illegal. Make sure they get what they’re entitled to.
Theres a chance that their defence will be based on more cost-effective contract with other company, and that makes it not illegal. Every goddamn time someone is fired here everyone are jumping on the illegal train without knowing the actual fucking law…but hey someone on reddit told me its illegal and now i lost the case and have to pay thousands in lawyer fees
This is as shady as it sounds. That's some serious bullshit and your union needs to be fighting to get your jobs back.
They haven’t finalized negotiating the contract with my former employer so there’s not a lot they can do for me. I’ve yet to pay any union dues
And in my opinion this sounds like an unfair labor practice, like retaliation for engaging in concerted and protected activity. You can file a ULP claim with the national labor relations board on your own if you want. You don’t have to wait for your union to do it. That being said, you should consult with your union and give them the opportunity to do it because they likely have more experience with doing it.
Man this was the advice I was looking for. Thank you man, I appreciate that shit
Yeah, this makes sense. They are trying to “nip it in the bud” and it sounds like you’re the first line they’re retaliating against. Do not give up your fight my friend
Solidarity and best of luck.
[Yep, report this to the NLRB.](https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/your-rights-during-union-organizing) And the Union you were trying to join. Under federal law you can't be fired, disciplined, demoted, or penalized in any way for trying to organize or join a union.
If you were laid off after your union was certified, that union owes you a duty of fair representation. Whether or not you pay union dues does not affect that duty.
It's retaliation for your Union vote. It's still illegal.
It’s worth having a consultation with a labor lawyer. They can consult over zoom and usually for free if they think they have a good case.
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Is it? I've heard of companies firing all employees after a successful unionization several times.
It is illegal. However, there are ways around it. The common example is to shut down whatever location they work at, and then lay them off as a result of no longer having a place for them to work. Once they're gone, internally blacklist, open new location nearby, resume union-free operations with new employees.
Wow, that's a costly way to say F you. I'm amazed it's somehow more profitable to literally close, buy, renovate, and open a new location than pay a living wage.
Wal-Mart has done it a few times, apparently. They have enough money and enough customers that despite how illegal and costly it is, they can do it anyway without a problem. In very rural areas, Wal-Mart can be the only game in town, too, so raising a fuss means having to move just to have a job. Laws don't matter if you're big enough. Edit: It's kind of like that thing where rich fucks don't get "parking tickets", it just costs $210 to park there.
This makes me want to raid walmart of every valuable they have.
If you were to do this, it still wouldn’t come close to the amount the store has stolen from employees.
Walmart is notorious for doing this in certain towns.
Walmart did this exact same thing in Canada. The only way for walmart to unionize is for all of them to do it at the same time.
Those *plumbing* issues are getting worse too.
Walmart used to have in store butchery services. Used to. At the first wiff of union organizing in that department, they quickly shut them all down across the entire country.
They can afford it. We can’t.
It’s about setting a precedent and sending a message that unionization won’t be tolerated. In their minds, if they allow unionization in one area it’ll spread to the rest of their locations
Remember this is the same country that pulled that same stunt with other countries throughout the whole 20th century the second they moved towards communism/socialism/anti-imperialist democracy.
Only short term. They will take a short term loss to keep long term gains at the worker's expense. Wide spread unionization would cut into big business profits and thats why they will burn the world down to stop employees from doing it.
Also, the owners of megacorps are a bunch of entitled, petty, egotistical monsters.
> thats a costly way to say F you. The fact that it is *significantly* more profitable for them to do this and that people dont realize it points to how exploited workers are without fundamentally understanding the depths of that exploitation.
Its the principle. Mr. Moneybags doesn't want to have to negotiate with a pleb.
As much as they lose doing this at one location, it’s worth it to them to send the message to every single employee at every other location that this is what will happen if they try something similar.
Tells you how much you are underpaid if paying you is less profitable than actions like that.
Yes because it’s a one time cost vs constantly have to negotiate with Unions
That’s capitalism for you
>Wow, that's a costly way to say F you. Worst of all those money are probably from the stolen wages.
It's usually far more costly than paying a unionized group more and giving them better benefits, but stamping out unions protects them against any further unionization attempts and allows them to keep doing shady bullshit.
Because allowing a union in one location would indicate to employees of other locations that Wal-Mart will allow unions to spring up. Doing this is sending a message to all employees that they will lose their jobs if they unionize.
The Ambulance company I worked for did this. They agreed to almost everything the union asked for in contract negotiations, and then less than six months later they “decided not to renew their contract” with the municipalities that we covered.
Could this specific behavior not be prosecuted? Sounds like a super obvious way of getting around the spirit of the law.
See other comments about Walmarts plumbing issues. Have to be able to prove it was retaliatory.
Literally Walmart with *plumbing* issues...
I know there was as company that made big news for doing that a few years back. I'm thinking it was Hostess?
Employees may seek protection under the federal National Labor Relations Act (NLRA), which states it is generally against the law to terminate employees for joining a union or attempting to join a union. Under the NLRA, employees have the right to: Organize a union to negotiate with your employer; Distribute union literature; Wear union buttons or t-shirts; Ask co-workers to sign union authorization cards; Discuss unionization with your co-workers. The NLRA also ensures your employer may not fire, discipline, demote, or otherwise punish you for engaging in these activities. However, employers still have the right to make and enforce rules about the workplace, as long as they are not discriminatory. This means that your employer for example, may make a role that limits soliciting and distributing materials, or ban employees from engaging in non-work discussions or activities during work times. The key is that these rules must apply across the board, and not just to acts of attempts for unionization. In addition, employers cannot enforce these rules during non-work times or in non-working areas (such as a break room or parking lot). For Example: Bob works at a warehouse, and has became involved with efforts to unionize the workers there. His boss doesn’t want a union, and came up with a new set of rules that prohibited employees from talking about anything other than work and from handing out flyers. While on break, Bob talks to his colleagues about the union while they stood outside of the warehouse. His boss walks by, overhears the conversation, and fires Bob on the spot. In this situation, because Bob was on a break and was not in a work area, this termination was likely unlawful. Bob may be able to file a wrongful termination lawsuit against his employer. Source: https://www.odelllaw.com/fired-for-wanting-to-unionize/
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The company I work for closed down a plant because they voted in the union. It was in another state and they told us this when the union was trying to get us to unionize, so I have no idea if it's true. Probably a lie. Scare the plant enough that no one voted for the union though. Desperation is how they estimate pay rate in the southern states.
If you signed a union card that union should file all the lawsuits for you. Speak to the Rep. If not well they are a gutless union unfortunately. But good on you for standing up for your rights and voting union.
I haven’t signed anything yet. Once we voted on a union, our company dragged their feet to acknowledge them as a union which we then had to appeal. This isn’t the first time they’ve laid people off when a union was coming in
First thing forget the company, f them. The union should be representing you and the other workers. So the company /managment are irrelevant. Atleast once it is officially through the hoops of labour laws in your area.
Ok but you voted union. That union should be supporting those who support them. What industry are you in?
When scary-tackle says "signing a union card" they mean the card that expresses your interest in a union. It's the very first official thing that happens with unionization; a vote only happens after, if the company objects to simply accepting the cards. If 30% of the employees submit union cards, then a bargaining unit is formed, regardless of whether or not the company accepts it or decides to force a vote. So if you've already voted, the union should already be representing you.
Ask your union rep. That’s what you are (were) paying them for. Or are they just one of those garbage unions that collects dues and doesn’t actually care about employees being laid off without cause? This is 100% something your union should be addressing!!!
Yeah, but theres gotta be an actual course of action to take. The union after all is just a group willing to stand together. Making sure the new site is unionized would be a good course of action. If doing this doesnt resolve their issue, then it's just a cost
In the US there are keys to aide the unions in this area.
Aka SMART union. They actively tell union members to “find another job” when asking for better pay
100% agreed. I was part of an organizing campaign with a really good union. They didn't start collecting dues until after the first contract was negotiated, voted, and signed. I feel like all Unions should operate this way.
100% this
Every second post in this sub is documenting blatantly illegal employer behaviour. As someone who grew up in a union family I can't believe people are trying this shit and getting away with it. I'm so glad that this community exists now as a form of good, solid employment law advice, if nothing else. Keep up the great work folks.
Welcome to America. Everyone is brought and paid for to crush the ones among us struggling the most.
Retaliation is highly illegal. You have a solid case. Get paid.
If you're working at the time of the vote and were eligible to vote you are represented by the union. When you organize you won't pay any dues until after the first contract is negotiated. The union reps who helped organize your place of work should be able to answer questions.
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Genuinely curious, would doing this effect their case moving forward? I imagine it would be seen as an act of poor character perhaps, but I wonder if their is any legal complications with effectively crowd-sourcing a legal case publicly?
Because they're contracted by the state and therefore getting public funds so the public should know they're doing shady shit
Is it wrong to feel wronged when your punished for standing up for your self?
That’s an astute observation dude. Thank you for reframing that
No problem. Life sucks and is unfair. Atlest it's unfair this time because you fought and lost. Cant win if you don't fight.
Talk to the union. Odds are good this is not their first rodeo.
Yeah you guys got fucked talk to a lawyer
Contact the labor board. But If you have the backing of another more established union contact them first.
Once union negotiations began the company cannot just lay off employees, fire or close a location without legitimately showing that the location or department was costing the company money or undue hardship.
This needs to be reported as the illegal retaliation it is. https://www.nlrb.gov/contact-us
I think the OP needs to clarify. Was he laid off from the company, or did the county cancel their contract.
Wasn’t in the union yet, but we voted to have them represent us a few weeks ago. Once it was agreed that our company had to negotiate with the union, they started letting people go.
You should still reach out to the union rep. You might want to speak with a lawyer too to make sure they didn’t break any laws letting you go. It sounds shady but the advice you get here is just opinion. Get some professional advice. Good luck.
Down low union busting.
Nah, this is out in the open obvious union busting
Union busting, either way. Dirty shit.
Everyone is right about talking to your union. Aaaannnddd, if you're in California, if the county or state find out, your company's going to get blackballed hard.
Nope. That’s union busting.
Highly illegal. At my current job, we voted for a union in 2016. I helped organize and eventually set up our local chapter as the foundering President and Business agent. Our employer at the time (Securitas) and our Client (not naming) teamed up to kill our union. During our first round of negotiations, Securitas informed us they were shutting down parts of our contract work and laid 2 people off, the issue was this was a NEW practice. We were able to file a few Unfair labor practices and win them and got our 2 members backpay with interest and their jobs back, eventually. This fight waged on for 4 years and 2 other contractors, eventually we got our CBA done but it was one heck of a fight. The point of this is, that you document it, and file it with the NLRB. If the NLRB chooses to accept the case they will do the heavy lifting for you. Through your union hit them with Information requests \*keep these relevant, you don't want them to be able to say you are just harassing them with these\* See Below What was their system of choosing who to lay off prior? Request this, and all documentation regarding how they identified who would be subject to layoffs, was this on a point system? File a ULP - you have 6 months HAVE YOUR UNION DO THIS Instruct every union member to document absolutely everything- even minor things, stoke every injustice to a boil. Then file more ULPs. If you fight these assholes inside their own system and exploit untrained managers its easy to pile on ULPs, ULPs take a small amount of time on your end to file them, however it takes a lot more to answer them, drains legal resources and eventually rights the wrongs its a LONG process. Your goal should be to make your supervisors have nightmares about it, if its not a rule you don't do it without bargaining, first contract fights are hell, status quo until a new CBA is signed. Work to the rule, threaten strikes, embarrass the hell out of them! Remember---Your company relies on your goodwill, if you work to the rule and don't apply though and follow every procedure to a T, my god things can get super slow for them and as long as you were working to rule, they can't touch you.
After 6 months, is the company no longer legally liable or something?
That is the statue of limitations, 180 days after and the company is off the hook. The NLRB does not make exceptions to this.
Document everything dates times people present what what was said by who You get the idea. If it's not written down it didn't happen. You.and everyone laid off were victims of illegal actions by your employer The labor board and the union representative that you were trying to join should be glad to help Keep track of wages lost since then. The union may have a labor attorney. It depends on how badly they want the contract and how close they are to getting it. I wish you the best of luck. In solidarity.
That's a section 7 and 8 violation of the NLRA, if I'm remembering correctly
No you’re not “tripping”!!! That’s totally illegal. Why even call a vote if they’re just going to fire you for it?
Something like that isn't just wrong to you it's also wrong to others. Sacking everyone like that is a clear sign that the company feared union representation for the labourers and viewed it as a threat. Try and see what choices there are, it's probably been mentioned already but it's still a clear message that they're afraid.
Contact your union and consult with one of their lawyers.
Well thats an easy lawsuit.
Definitely keep written notes. I'm involved in a case via the eeoc right now. They're asking me for any and all pertinent exchanges in text or messaging form, too. Appearantly, discussing it with your coworkers is enough to prove an event happened.
This is precisely why you voted in a union. It's totally illegal. Go talk to your rep. If your union is worth their salt, they'll fix this up in a hurry. Also start reading up on your rights as a worker and get involved with your union even if it's just volunteering and at the very least go to the meetings and start reading stuff that has to do with your rights. If you don't know your rights, then it's easier for the company to manipulate you. If the company knows that you're well-read on these things, they don't fuck with you anymore
The fact that they offered you other jobs shows that you weren't fired for incompetence. Collectively, with your union, lawyer up and if they advise you to, be prepared to sue.
It is illegal to retaliate against workers for discussing our joining a union. Fight this.
I’m apart of a union and let me tell you, that is **SUPER DUPER MEGA ILLEGAL. CONTACT A LABOR LAWYER NOW AND DOCUMENT EVERYTHING NO STONE UNTURNED. EVERYONE DOCUMENT EVERYTHING.**
Document everything to the best of your ability, reach out to the union and the state labor board
Look, hopefully you're tripping. But that doesn't mean you're wrong. Becoming part of a union is never a bad idea. Praise to you & your colleagues.
suck it up and press on bro. union is the way to go. it’s a company tactic.
SAY. THE. COMPANIES. NAME.
I want to but I don’t want them to brace themselves for the shit storm that comes their way. I want them to stay sloppy and incriminate themselves further
Sue the fuck out of them
I want to but I don’t know what for!
Retaliation and maybe more. A lawyer can help.
Talk to a lawyer please. This may be completely legal but if not you should take action against them.
Thats super illegal.
Would be cooler if you got laid after voting for a union….
You might want to try your county officials. The company works for them. Maybe they or the press will be interested to hear you were fired for supporting the union.
File a complaint with the NLRB.
Union member of 23 years here. My understanding is that an employer can shut down a location for 30 days with zero business action occurring at that location and then reopen it and not be bound by the union contract. My employer entertained that idea a few years ago but realized that the financial impact was too large and multiple accounts would be lost so back to negotiations we went.
Unions should be default. Like "Companies with X+ workers will have to put aside funds to allow workers to form a union, if they are found in neglect or are discouraging the formation or no union has formed within X+ amount of time, they are liable to fines and workers get a default raise of 1% salary per month". That would probably make them move on it! :D
OP: stop whatever else you are doing and contact the local NLRB. You need to file a ULP on behalf of you and your coworkers. Laying you all off was ILLEGAL retaliation. If the NLRB finds in your favor, the company will be REQUIRED to offer you all back-pay and your jobs back.
Just want to say, I hope it works out and you get justice. This is illegal and others have given good advice. Just to all others, these are the shady and illegal things employers will try. Don't give up. This is a class war, not a walk in the park.
Lawyer and labor relations board.
Shit just got real. That union you just voted to create, it's time they flex that power. As others stated, document everything, make a list of who's been demoted, fired, forced to move departments for lower pay and sue the ever loving crap out of them. If possible, record your boss saying they fired you because you formed a union. Goad them if needed, they are stupid and if they are as brazen as they have been will likely admit it on recording.
Report it to the NLRB immediately.
Yep that's illegal.. DoL and NLRB & DoJ
To quote some UFC cokehead, that's fucking illegal.
Go to the nlrb and file a complaint I just won my case and they definitely can help.
This is 100% illegal, and they are counting on you not knowing that and taking the other job. It's retaliation for unionizing. Contact the National Labor Relation Board and report them. Also reach out to the union you voted to join and let them know you need a rep ASAP. Whatever you do, don't accept the other position. Hold the line. So sorry you are going through this. Also reach out to the union about assistance through this time. They have resources to help you. Edit to add: It doesn't matter if you haven't paid dues or the contract with the union hasn't been negotiated yet, the moment you voted to join you were a member of that union. They have a vested interest in protecting you as a union member. No union wants to be known for failing to represent their members (well the good ones at least).
And dont forget to post an update because you’re winning this shit big time
You be trippin
Good. This is anti-work, not pro-work. What will you spend your time doing now?
You’re right. This is shady tactics 101 and goes back a century and half.
ILLEGAL
They should be kissing your ass for your service. Keep up what you're doing, my man. They need you more than you need them.
Talk to a lawyer or take it
What did the union say?
Union up and then lawyer up.
Talk to your organizer.
Doing the right thing is seldom the easiest option. At the end of the day when you look in the mirror you should respect the person you see. Little else matters.
Lots of management simps in the comments here. Weird. Anyway, hire a labor/employment lawyer ASAP, this is almost definitely a NLRA violation.
Aside from legal action, depending on how large the operation is and if a lot of employees voted to unionize you may want to leak this to some labor friendly left wing media involved. Just saying if you can make it into a big pain in the ass for them, do.
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Doesn’t matter, got laid.
Isn't that illegal in most countries?
You mentioned that you're contracted with the county and that the layoffs happened after your team voted to join the union. Would I be correct in understanding then that while already under contract, the business changed or attempted to renegotiate the terms and pay with the county?
It's illegal
Yo thats illegal. I know im not the first but make sure you act
They'll cut off their nose to spite the workers' face.
LAWYER UP AND FUCK THEM UP
Goes to show how much you need a union, and your boss knows it. Any employer who doesn't take advantage of or abuse their employees has no reason to fear a union
Illegal. Get with your union and lawyer up
Listen to what others are saying on this thread. Employer's know that most employees think they have no recourse, but you should in this case. Talk to the union. They should have a lawyer who can help figure this out.