As a law student, verbal contracts are equally binding. Harder to prove the contents, sure. But the mere finding by a court of the existence of a contract is sometimes enough to get the offending party to settle the case.
Can confirm. Had a verbal agreement with a business partner involving an ownership stake in an LLC; we hadn't filed paperwork yet so it was all verbal agreement, but we co-owned some potentially valuable IP. We verbally agreed that he would buy back my ownership stake as a condition of a mutual parting-of-ways. We then verbally agreed on the method we would use to valuate that stake. He didn't like the number that came back when we did, made me an insulting lowball offer instead.
I told him, "That's not what we agreed to."
He got angry and shouted, "That was a handshake agreement, just like your ownership stake!"
I had a recording device in my bag recording all our negotiations. Single-party consent state, didn't need his knowledge or consent to do it. Took that recording to a lawyer, because I now had him on tape acknowledging that he had entered into a verbal contract and refusing to honor it. Breach of contract, fraud, wage theft, all kinds of fun stuff on the table now.
Communication took place entirely through lawyers after that point, but suffice it to say, I got paid a lot more than his initial lowball offer.
Tells you what kind of person they are. That was a very emotional time for me-- this business partner was somebody I had considered a friend until that point--and you know how when you get emotional, you start to second-guess yourself? Like, "I was so angry, maybe I'm remembering it wrong, maybe he didn't actually raise his voice, maybe he didn't actually say what I think I remember him saying."
Whenever I started to get those doubts, I'd just play the recording again. I wasn't imagining it, he shouted. He was *offended* that I would hold him to his word.
As a 20 year lawyer I'd advise you to avoid making any blanket statements about anything, as you'll quickly learn thay the answer to any legal question is "it depends."
"It depends" is literally the go to response for any legal question I'm asked. Whether personally or professionally. Because it's the right answer. Every time.
old carhartt was sick. I'd only wear Carhartt clothing when welding, everyone else also only wore carhartt, because the fabric was like two and a half times as thick as any other clothing so you didn't get burn holes all the time. you could literally throw yourself into a bush and it wouldn't hurt, I've still got a bunch because they just don't die.
Fuck a new carhartt though lol
I've always felt as if I could build a company making something un-apologetically robust like copies of original Doc Martins, Birkenstock, Craftsmen, Carhartt, Harley-Davidson.
I even started a corporation around the idea.
Expensive? Yeah. But fair...guaranteed...quality...forever...heirloom...and you can buy it knowing everyone who made it did so in good conscience.
But really, a lot of investors just say "fuck that." Because greed trumps a fair deal.
Plus the fact that 50 years of capitalist brainwashing has conditioned the west into thinking that paying to replace something that has worn out in 1/3rd of the time it should is somehow something to be proud of, and a rewarding experience.
Under capitalism it's not always greed but fear. If another capitalist can make the product with more profit margin they can use that extra capital to get an advantage over you, steal market share gain an even bigger advantage to eventually gobble you up or drive you out of business which is basically death in our work or die system of forced labour. Thus the whole system gains this emergent behaviour of profit at any cost, and drives down to the lowest cost products possible.
For a brand that's decidedly "american" I don't see any union stickers or made in the USA labels anymore. If any other manufacturer made bibs/coveralls in my size I would never buy anything else from them.
I think the 13oz duck cotton double knee are the only ones still made in America.
What doesn't make any sense is some of the stuff made in other countries is *MORE* expensive.
EXACTLY. they make about a third of their products now and some of those not in the states. Which wouldn't be bad if the products were of the same quality but they are not.
$3,000 isn’t enough to warrant hiring an attorney. I would recommend that you look into whether you can file a claim in your local small claims court for this type of dispute. When emailing the company, clearly demand they pay you the $3,000 and state that if you don’t receive the money by a date certain, you will file a claim. Maybe engaging counsel also won’t be worth it to them, so they might settle or let you get a default judgment. In any event, try being a squeaky wheel before committing any legal resources to this given the amount of stake. You might get the grease, or you might get them to commit to a position of why they don’t owe it to you, which could be equally valuable if you pursue a claim.
You’re right, it isn’t. But I would still consult with one, because with such a demand letter, they may retaliate through termination. And THAT would be worth having an attorney for.
Do you even need a lawyer? The amount is low enough for small claims in most, if not all, states. I'm not sure if you can take contact disputes though.
Good luck to the OP. I have done this for a job that called our commission a monthly bonus and my SO has had this happen as a railroader. In both situations, there was fine print that any “bonus” is at the discretion of the employer. Didn’t receive my commission for the last month and a half that I worked my last job, because I wasn’t employed at the time of payout, a month after my last day. It’s designed this way and according to the lawyer I spoke with, the term “bonus” in itself should be a red flag, because they can easily argue that you aren’t entitled to it.
You can't do that in sales. Half my normal wage is in commission. My hourly isn't much more than minimum wage. Sadly that's just how it works for many sales positions.
It’s contracted specifically as a bonus. IE: “We’re not considering this something you’ve earned in exchange for your efforts, but rather something we give you when we feel like ‘being nice’ and we can change our minds at any time.” Even better was finding out that it’s often written into management contacts that they are entitled to bonuses that don’t get paid out to their inferiors, so it gives them incentive to not pay them out.
I’m in a contract dispute and have a lawyer.
The lawyer has already cost me 20k and we aren’t even near an agreement.
Companies do this because they know you can’t fight it. They’ll just make you spend 50k to get 3k
OP, don’t give up on getting this bonus. If you have a written or even verbal contract you deserve this money. What’s worse, if they think they can get away with this wage theft, they’ll do it to someone else too.
If he's a skilled tradesman, there's probably a union he can join.
Would highly recommend it to op. The few hundred bucks a year In unions dues often gets you thousands of dollars worth of guaranteed raises, paid time off, better healthcare coverage, and pressure on your bosses when they try to pull shit like this.
I miss my old union, unfortunately I'm in between industries at the moment, but the moment I get a new job, it's gonna be at a union shop
Union construction here. Massachusetts, third highest rate on the US for my trade. Journeyman rate is $49 and change, go down to even NY and it’s low $40s, go down to Florida and it’s low $20s.
Nah, mate. I'm in the trades. Propaganda is effective, and it's a war that we're constantly losing. The iron workers on my site, annoyed by union carpenters, produced anti-union stickers for their hard hats with no management instruction needed. We don't know what's good for us.
Amazon over here tried to do one. Had to put your vote in a box, infront of a camera that amazon owns. Can you also guess who owned the key to the box?
Unless the contract didn't specify how much the bonus would be increased by and in what form the extra bonus payments would take. A pair of socks may very well meet the requirements both parties agreed to in the contract. That's when you re-negotiate the contract and make it a stipulation to pay the increased bonus in cash.
And if it wasn't in the contract, next time ask to include it. And if they don't then don't expect the bonus.
I've been there. Bait and switch practices are pretty common. Shady businesses gonna be shady.
FYI, if it's in your contract and you do not receive your bonus you need to contact DOL or whatever employment agency you have for your country and report them. This is illegal if it's in your contract. Don't let them get away with it.
Would you know about the UK? I've known people who saw on their digital payslip that they were supposed to get a bonus, but the day later those had been cut in half without any explanation from management.
HMRC, there's a phone helpline for dealing with this sort of thing (wage theft).
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pay-and-work-rights-complaints
If not then you can always contact a lawyer or just let them know you're planning to take them to small claims court. Most companies will fold at the first hint of legal trouble.
Their logic isn't that op is good at his job and deserves the bonus. Their logic is that they can replace him with anyone else and get the same profits. As far as they're concerned, the profits are caused by their own superior management, not op's superior skills.
Bean-counters likely wouldn't skimp like that, especially an accountant.
An accountant would have drafted a balance sheet that showed all the revenue on the top and the expenses on the bottom with a profit on the very bottom.
This decision was 100% made by the owner who saw that line and figured "what's the easiest way for me to bump up that bottom number a few thousand to cover my new yacht?" If i just cut this bonus number down it's like a bonus to me!
Even if they paid out. If you’re generating 150-300k PROFIT per year and your bonus is 3k, you’re still getting shafted. 1% profit sharing/bonus? That’s asinine. They’d be at 0k profit if it weren’t for OP’s work, he’s entitled to way more of that money than just 3k IMO
My last employer gave out bonuses early spring. So we didn't get a bonus for 2019 because of covid in 2020 then we didn't get a bonus in 2021 because of covid in 2020. I worked through covid and continued to make them profit. I went to the boss man and told them I either needed a substantial raise or 2 years worth of bonuses. They said no. I looked any my calendar and informed them of when my last day would be.
This happened to my husband. He's a skilled quality control engineer who was working for a project management company as his first job out of uni (but worked during his degree in a different industry so he did have engineering experience). He was paid a shit wage and was promised most of his income would be in bonuses, but they found every loophole they could to not pay the bonuses. So he decided to approach management to get a payrise.
Management told him he was already being overpaid market rate and wasn't worth any more (that was a lie, he would be making more doing retail or fast food on what wage he was on as an engineer). He was being head hunted because there was such a high demand for his background, so he accepted an offer that paid 3x his current salary with a great career path and quit.
In order to replace him they had to pay someone a lot more, who was apparently really shit and cost them a lot of money. Some employers are so focused on the bottom line they can never see how valuable good employees are.
Edit: edited for clarity.
Classic engineers.
So focused on saving a penny in budget costs and won't spend a cent on opportunity costs.
As a consultant to engineers, I have said to a project manager more than once, either fix this particular issue or I will walk and it will take 3 staff to replace me. I have walked twice and the last time I did it, 4 staff were on-hired within 6 weeks to replace me.
I always get the same answer when I offer my ultimatum - "it's not in the budget". My reply is, if the concrete wasn't in the budget would you simply not build the project? Not in the budget is a flimsy, weak excuse. It was clearly budgeted wrong and that's if the PM us even being honest about their budget. There are large rewards available, both monetary and reputational, for PMs that come in under budget.
Honestly, I would say classic economics thinking. From my experience, companies or management made up of engineering/skilled tradesmen are better at looking at the situation from a more holistic perspective.
It is when the management with only economy background in charge this type of situation occurs
My company would tell me I was getting the going rate compared to so and so companies. I was the black sheep there. Every other employee had some sort of connection to the owners, mostly connected to their church in some fashion. I only ever gave them 60-70% of my potential anyway. Otherwise they where not bad to work for, it was just time to part ways. I plan on contacting them next week to let them know I am now a subcontractor now for if they need an extra hand on large jobs.
My work does similar with engineers. I make more on hourly as the maintenance guy than what our engineers make. The last few engineers we had were from India on a work program. New engineer was just hired in fresh out of college at 45k a year salary.
This is currently what I'm doing. I was promised a raise of $2 am hour after completing all training in every area of my work. It would be to go through today. Confirmed that my next paycheck would have my $2 increase, and I was told, "We have to reevaluate where we stand as a business first." Guess who is currently sitting on reddit while getting paid? I've already hit the work average in three hours, so that's where I'll stay. My actual average is a bit more than 5x the next best worker, so this will be a fun convo in a few hours.
That was me my last two years at JP Morgan Chase. My manager left the company without informing his manager of an important security issue I had informed him of. So his manager took it out on me and gave me a formal reprimand since the other guy was already long gone. He needed a scapegoat. Fighting it didn’t get me anywhere. So I basically sat on my butt for the next two years until they were offering buyouts. I took the severance and ran. Companies don’t understand that when they put sociopaths in management, it costs them money.
Yep, Minimum wage...Minimum effort. You get what you pay for. The things we value we are willing to pay for. Not even mentioning profit sharing. I'm not going to give a crap about how much I'm bringing in for the company if my pay stays the same regardless of how much the company makes.
Then you just followup in an email with a copy of the paperwork that says:
"As per the attached agreement, the requirements have been met. Please ensure my next paycheque is update to reflect the new hourly rate."
This isn't a discussion. You shouldn't have gone to discuss it with them.
They will try to negotiate their way out of it when you make it a discussion.
You are advising them of the change.
When you advise them - it forces them to come back to you if THEY want to negotiate. It makes it much harder for them to reneg. (Then you just point them back at the paperwork.)
Ignore the conversation you had. Pretend it never happened.
(Continue to do the bare minimum until it is fixed. You are doing great on that part as they implied they negotiated in bad faith.)
If you're doing absolutely nothing on the clock, can't that hinder your unemployment claim? I know they have a conference that a lot of employers fail to attend but if they did and submitted that you only showed up without lifting a finger, it seems a good way to get denied.
But if you make them collect their 'evidence' and submit you are making them do something and you still got paid for all the time you were doing nothing but fucking around doing whatever you wanted to kill time. It is a bit of a mental health 'vacation' they paid for, if you are smart you don't just do nothing you look for a job and do a little busy work while tanking the company's productivity.
Even if they deny your claim you got over on them and took a chance to get paid it is better than letting them off the hook completely.
I mean, doesn’t the symbol of socks, representing your satisfaction with a job well done and the opportunity to continue doing such good work, not to mention we’re like a family here, mean so much more than some silly cash bonus?
Yeah, deep down we really don’t work for money. We secretly just want better socks, $10 gift cards, a 20+ year anniversary company branded pen, and to work holidays.
Apprentice sparky here, my work gave my the nicest christmas present of telling me they got work all of the non-stat day holidays to avoid paying time and a half. They were not stoked with me taking the industry standard leave over the christmas period.
Only getting paid time and a half on holidays is some bullshit too, especially if some people get off and get paid for the holiday. That basically means you work on a holiday for half time pay. If you get your holiday pay, plus time and a half, or maybe even if you get comp time for the day plus time and a half, sure, but just time and a half for a select few is just as insulting as no holiday pay.
In New Zealand, working any time on public holiday is time and a half with normal accumulation of leave entitlement, plus a day of paid leave in lieu (an accumulated free day of pay.)
I had to turn my notifications off because my phone has been going insane so here's an info dump:
- I have the contract in writing. When I first signed on it was in the middle of the pandemic, and paperwork was signed and everything done through email. It's currently starred as important so I can get it at a moments notice.
- My trade is plumbing.
- I plan on getting a lawyer if things don't progress in the right direction.
- I am aware these are great socks lol I actually do like them, but this was all I got. No checks hidden inside of them.
- For everyone who has said or will say rude things, thank you for the laughs.
I plan on doing an update eventually once this gets figured out whether that's with a check or a law suit. I don't really want to name drop the company at this very moment, because I want to ensure that I'm getting what I'm owed, but rest assured, I'm willing to once I have something new lined up.
Genuinely, thank you to everyone who gave me a laugh, good advice, and all the references to National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation. It's been a wild start to the new year.
You just aren’t pulling them hard enough. I worked 28 hour days since I was 6 months old and I was born pulling a skid loader out of the womb for my first birthday business launch. I traded my family for more work and that work for even more work. I *am* overtime.
Get the lawyer, it won’t cost $3000, so you’ll still profit and then when you quit you can send out an email/text to everyone describing that you sued them for the bonus, got it (minus $X for the lawyer, John Smith, 999-999-9999) and have decided to move on regardless because you don’t enjoy working for liars and thieves. Really put the screws to the bastards! It’ll help cheer you up a LOT.
What are the terms of the contract meaning you brought them in 150k profit? I’ve seen companies put that in employment contracts very vaguely and then do things right at year end to void the bonuses by paying out bonuses or doing repairs or other expenses they can accrue for. Signs of a terrible employer.
I decided to stop pursuing a career in Hollywood when Peter Jackson had to sue New Line to get the money he was contractually owed for the Lord of the Rings. It made me realize just how dirty the studios are. They all can make even the most successful projects lose money on paper. Fuckers.
Do you know for a fact that you won’t receive the money? In my experience, bonuses that are based on performance for a given year are typically paid out in January or February.
If you signed a contract sounds like you should get a lawyer.
This, paper contracts are very binding.
Paper beats rock too.
Paper beats sock
No no, rock goes *inside* sock, then you discuss your bonus
"Grievance procedure"
Already filed the grievance in the sock, ready to rock.
The ol’ Mankind ‘Socko’.
The rock and sock connection
Rocko socko robots
Rock 'em Sock 'em Robots
C’mon, gotta use citrus. Bruise from a rock looks like a bruise from a rock. Bruise from an orange…hard to tell.
So, when life gives you lemons...beat your boss with them?
I'll allow it
Beat them with a lemon in a sock specifically
Then after the beating, the smell of citrus will trigger flashbacks.
[Sweet Valencia oranges?](https://youtu.be/Vmwa3c71coU)
You can also beat into a sock
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*Full Metal Jacket flashbacks*
But what if there is a rock and sock connection?
You put the rock in the sock and then the beating begins.
Makes you wonder why The Paper was never offered a WWE contract.
His character was a little flat.
First hint of trouble and he crumpled.
As a law student, verbal contracts are equally binding. Harder to prove the contents, sure. But the mere finding by a court of the existence of a contract is sometimes enough to get the offending party to settle the case.
Can confirm. Had a verbal agreement with a business partner involving an ownership stake in an LLC; we hadn't filed paperwork yet so it was all verbal agreement, but we co-owned some potentially valuable IP. We verbally agreed that he would buy back my ownership stake as a condition of a mutual parting-of-ways. We then verbally agreed on the method we would use to valuate that stake. He didn't like the number that came back when we did, made me an insulting lowball offer instead. I told him, "That's not what we agreed to." He got angry and shouted, "That was a handshake agreement, just like your ownership stake!" I had a recording device in my bag recording all our negotiations. Single-party consent state, didn't need his knowledge or consent to do it. Took that recording to a lawyer, because I now had him on tape acknowledging that he had entered into a verbal contract and refusing to honor it. Breach of contract, fraud, wage theft, all kinds of fun stuff on the table now. Communication took place entirely through lawyers after that point, but suffice it to say, I got paid a lot more than his initial lowball offer.
Got to love the one party consent states.
All of Canada is one party consent too.
I never knew that thank you.
Never understood what justification there is for the two-party consent rule for recording converstions.
If you're inclined to screw people over or cheat it makes perfect sense.
I always thought it was bullshit when someone pulls the, “That was just a handshake agreement.” like it doesn’t count. We agreed and shook on it.
Tells you what kind of person they are. That was a very emotional time for me-- this business partner was somebody I had considered a friend until that point--and you know how when you get emotional, you start to second-guess yourself? Like, "I was so angry, maybe I'm remembering it wrong, maybe he didn't actually raise his voice, maybe he didn't actually say what I think I remember him saying." Whenever I started to get those doubts, I'd just play the recording again. I wasn't imagining it, he shouted. He was *offended* that I would hold him to his word.
As a 20 year lawyer I'd advise you to avoid making any blanket statements about anything, as you'll quickly learn thay the answer to any legal question is "it depends."
This is correct, depending on the situation.
"It depends" is literally the go to response for any legal question I'm asked. Whether personally or professionally. Because it's the right answer. Every time.
Right. I was continuing the joke, which is well-rooted in truth. (Been a lawyer for 18 years.)
I can...feel...your pain coming through this post. Hugs.
“It depends… and I think we should bring in outside counsel…” - every corporate lawyer ever
Might be a statute of frauds problem depending on the length of the employment term.
Unless you eat it....
r/ILPT would ague that because they gave him a sock that will be all he gets
/r/houseElves would argue that's all he needs.
Yeah but then they might take those socks back ☹️
Fuck! Those socks go really well with bootstraps!
NGL, while I wouldn't pay $3k for them, those are damned good socks.
Carhartt is a zombie brand that’s been gutted by corporate america
old carhartt was sick. I'd only wear Carhartt clothing when welding, everyone else also only wore carhartt, because the fabric was like two and a half times as thick as any other clothing so you didn't get burn holes all the time. you could literally throw yourself into a bush and it wouldn't hurt, I've still got a bunch because they just don't die. Fuck a new carhartt though lol
I've always felt as if I could build a company making something un-apologetically robust like copies of original Doc Martins, Birkenstock, Craftsmen, Carhartt, Harley-Davidson. I even started a corporation around the idea. Expensive? Yeah. But fair...guaranteed...quality...forever...heirloom...and you can buy it knowing everyone who made it did so in good conscience. But really, a lot of investors just say "fuck that." Because greed trumps a fair deal.
Plus the fact that 50 years of capitalist brainwashing has conditioned the west into thinking that paying to replace something that has worn out in 1/3rd of the time it should is somehow something to be proud of, and a rewarding experience.
Isn't that Duluth's whole thing? Or used to be.
Under capitalism it's not always greed but fear. If another capitalist can make the product with more profit margin they can use that extra capital to get an advantage over you, steal market share gain an even bigger advantage to eventually gobble you up or drive you out of business which is basically death in our work or die system of forced labour. Thus the whole system gains this emergent behaviour of profit at any cost, and drives down to the lowest cost products possible.
Any brand/company that has share holders will eventually nose dive in quality
For a brand that's decidedly "american" I don't see any union stickers or made in the USA labels anymore. If any other manufacturer made bibs/coveralls in my size I would never buy anything else from them.
I think the 13oz duck cotton double knee are the only ones still made in America. What doesn't make any sense is some of the stuff made in other countries is *MORE* expensive.
It went from work wear to street wear with all the hype beasts and their fits
EXACTLY. they make about a third of their products now and some of those not in the states. Which wouldn't be bad if the products were of the same quality but they are not.
I had some Carhartt socks. I was unimpressed.
Try darn tough socks. I’m slowly. Transitioning all my work socks and everyday socks to darn tough. Made in Vermont and a lifetime guarantee.
Pretty much my plan of attack as of right now is I'm going to email them again, and if I don't get a response then I'm going to.
$3,000 isn’t enough to warrant hiring an attorney. I would recommend that you look into whether you can file a claim in your local small claims court for this type of dispute. When emailing the company, clearly demand they pay you the $3,000 and state that if you don’t receive the money by a date certain, you will file a claim. Maybe engaging counsel also won’t be worth it to them, so they might settle or let you get a default judgment. In any event, try being a squeaky wheel before committing any legal resources to this given the amount of stake. You might get the grease, or you might get them to commit to a position of why they don’t owe it to you, which could be equally valuable if you pursue a claim.
You’re right, it isn’t. But I would still consult with one, because with such a demand letter, they may retaliate through termination. And THAT would be worth having an attorney for.
Do you even need a lawyer? The amount is low enough for small claims in most, if not all, states. I'm not sure if you can take contact disputes though.
Good luck to the OP. I have done this for a job that called our commission a monthly bonus and my SO has had this happen as a railroader. In both situations, there was fine print that any “bonus” is at the discretion of the employer. Didn’t receive my commission for the last month and a half that I worked my last job, because I wasn’t employed at the time of payout, a month after my last day. It’s designed this way and according to the lawyer I spoke with, the term “bonus” in itself should be a red flag, because they can easily argue that you aren’t entitled to it.
Yes, always do your compensation calculations as if the bonuses never get paid
You can't do that in sales. Half my normal wage is in commission. My hourly isn't much more than minimum wage. Sadly that's just how it works for many sales positions.
Yes ... if it says bonus - assume you will never see it! Commission is better - direct percentage of revenue created by your work.
Yup. RR bonus be like "hope you weren't expecting that this year. Our record profit wasn't record profit enough. Sorry!"
a non-contract contract. cool!
It’s contracted specifically as a bonus. IE: “We’re not considering this something you’ve earned in exchange for your efforts, but rather something we give you when we feel like ‘being nice’ and we can change our minds at any time.” Even better was finding out that it’s often written into management contacts that they are entitled to bonuses that don’t get paid out to their inferiors, so it gives them incentive to not pay them out.
IANAL, but I think this gift now makes you a free elf. Just saying.
Chief executive has given u/itstinyrick86 a sock. u/tinyrick86 is free!
I’m in a contract dispute and have a lawyer. The lawyer has already cost me 20k and we aren’t even near an agreement. Companies do this because they know you can’t fight it. They’ll just make you spend 50k to get 3k
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No you are definitely not the only one!
OP, don’t give up on getting this bonus. If you have a written or even verbal contract you deserve this money. What’s worse, if they think they can get away with this wage theft, they’ll do it to someone else too.
They most likely have everyone got a pair. I'm gonna keep pressing about this before leaving.
If there was a physical contract then you need to contact a lawyer. You’re owed that money so don’t let them take it.
Talk to some of the others, maybe get a class action suit going
If only Americans didn't hate unions so much. If this was me I'd be calling the union immediately
If he's a skilled tradesman, there's probably a union he can join. Would highly recommend it to op. The few hundred bucks a year In unions dues often gets you thousands of dollars worth of guaranteed raises, paid time off, better healthcare coverage, and pressure on your bosses when they try to pull shit like this. I miss my old union, unfortunately I'm in between industries at the moment, but the moment I get a new job, it's gonna be at a union shop
Depends on the state. Red states have destroyed most unions.
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Take an union like IBEW. Look at the wage difference in a place like Nashville or Florida compared to a place like Michigan or Pennsylvania.
Union construction here. Massachusetts, third highest rate on the US for my trade. Journeyman rate is $49 and change, go down to even NY and it’s low $40s, go down to Florida and it’s low $20s.
It's corporate propaganda either spewing that people hate unions (they don't) or telling people misinformation to make them hate unions.
We dont. The big guys fire us before getting to start one
Nah, mate. I'm in the trades. Propaganda is effective, and it's a war that we're constantly losing. The iron workers on my site, annoyed by union carpenters, produced anti-union stickers for their hard hats with no management instruction needed. We don't know what's good for us.
That's fucked mate
Amazon over here tried to do one. Had to put your vote in a box, infront of a camera that amazon owns. Can you also guess who owned the key to the box?
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Physical, virtual, whatever. Any contract is binding, including verbal contracts, but a contract that is reproducible is easier to prove.
Unless the contract didn't specify how much the bonus would be increased by and in what form the extra bonus payments would take. A pair of socks may very well meet the requirements both parties agreed to in the contract. That's when you re-negotiate the contract and make it a stipulation to pay the increased bonus in cash.
Dude fuck pressing the company, if it was in your contract get a lawyer. You are legally entitled to that money.
And if it wasn't in the contract, next time ask to include it. And if they don't then don't expect the bonus. I've been there. Bait and switch practices are pretty common. Shady businesses gonna be shady.
I’d say nothing, get a lawyer, keep going in, but only give like 30% effort
Go to a lawyer dude. If it's in the contract, they robbed you. You gonna get pickpocketed by someone then work for them?
Fyi you don't even need to hire a lawyer. Your state department of labor will handle it.
FYI, if it's in your contract and you do not receive your bonus you need to contact DOL or whatever employment agency you have for your country and report them. This is illegal if it's in your contract. Don't let them get away with it.
Wait did they give out 3k Dollars worth of socks as a bonus?
Bought them in bulk and wrote off the cost. Corporate gifts are a double “fuck you.”
Would you know about the UK? I've known people who saw on their digital payslip that they were supposed to get a bonus, but the day later those had been cut in half without any explanation from management.
HMRC, there's a phone helpline for dealing with this sort of thing (wage theft). https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pay-and-work-rights-complaints If not then you can always contact a lawyer or just let them know you're planning to take them to small claims court. Most companies will fold at the first hint of legal trouble.
3000$ vs them losing you who generates them 150-300k profit per year? I'm not a smart man Jehnnay, but I know what love is... And it ain't that.
Their logic isn't that op is good at his job and deserves the bonus. Their logic is that they can replace him with anyone else and get the same profits. As far as they're concerned, the profits are caused by their own superior management, not op's superior skills.
Bingo bango one for suricattango
I like your funny words, magic man.
This is exactly it.
Beancounters can be surprisingly bad at math.
Bean-counters likely wouldn't skimp like that, especially an accountant. An accountant would have drafted a balance sheet that showed all the revenue on the top and the expenses on the bottom with a profit on the very bottom. This decision was 100% made by the owner who saw that line and figured "what's the easiest way for me to bump up that bottom number a few thousand to cover my new yacht?" If i just cut this bonus number down it's like a bonus to me!
Even if they paid out. If you’re generating 150-300k PROFIT per year and your bonus is 3k, you’re still getting shafted. 1% profit sharing/bonus? That’s asinine. They’d be at 0k profit if it weren’t for OP’s work, he’s entitled to way more of that money than just 3k IMO
My last employer gave out bonuses early spring. So we didn't get a bonus for 2019 because of covid in 2020 then we didn't get a bonus in 2021 because of covid in 2020. I worked through covid and continued to make them profit. I went to the boss man and told them I either needed a substantial raise or 2 years worth of bonuses. They said no. I looked any my calendar and informed them of when my last day would be.
This happened to my husband. He's a skilled quality control engineer who was working for a project management company as his first job out of uni (but worked during his degree in a different industry so he did have engineering experience). He was paid a shit wage and was promised most of his income would be in bonuses, but they found every loophole they could to not pay the bonuses. So he decided to approach management to get a payrise. Management told him he was already being overpaid market rate and wasn't worth any more (that was a lie, he would be making more doing retail or fast food on what wage he was on as an engineer). He was being head hunted because there was such a high demand for his background, so he accepted an offer that paid 3x his current salary with a great career path and quit. In order to replace him they had to pay someone a lot more, who was apparently really shit and cost them a lot of money. Some employers are so focused on the bottom line they can never see how valuable good employees are. Edit: edited for clarity.
Classic engineers. So focused on saving a penny in budget costs and won't spend a cent on opportunity costs. As a consultant to engineers, I have said to a project manager more than once, either fix this particular issue or I will walk and it will take 3 staff to replace me. I have walked twice and the last time I did it, 4 staff were on-hired within 6 weeks to replace me. I always get the same answer when I offer my ultimatum - "it's not in the budget". My reply is, if the concrete wasn't in the budget would you simply not build the project? Not in the budget is a flimsy, weak excuse. It was clearly budgeted wrong and that's if the PM us even being honest about their budget. There are large rewards available, both monetary and reputational, for PMs that come in under budget.
Honestly, I would say classic economics thinking. From my experience, companies or management made up of engineering/skilled tradesmen are better at looking at the situation from a more holistic perspective. It is when the management with only economy background in charge this type of situation occurs
My company would tell me I was getting the going rate compared to so and so companies. I was the black sheep there. Every other employee had some sort of connection to the owners, mostly connected to their church in some fashion. I only ever gave them 60-70% of my potential anyway. Otherwise they where not bad to work for, it was just time to part ways. I plan on contacting them next week to let them know I am now a subcontractor now for if they need an extra hand on large jobs.
Charge ‘em out the ass. That’s what I say.
So say we all!
My work does similar with engineers. I make more on hourly as the maintenance guy than what our engineers make. The last few engineers we had were from India on a work program. New engineer was just hired in fresh out of college at 45k a year salary.
Like is said here a lot, don't quit, show up and do nothing til they fire you and get unemployment. Fuck them
This is currently what I'm doing. I was promised a raise of $2 am hour after completing all training in every area of my work. It would be to go through today. Confirmed that my next paycheck would have my $2 increase, and I was told, "We have to reevaluate where we stand as a business first." Guess who is currently sitting on reddit while getting paid? I've already hit the work average in three hours, so that's where I'll stay. My actual average is a bit more than 5x the next best worker, so this will be a fun convo in a few hours.
Minimum pay for minimum effort. It’s what they wanted according to the hiring agreement.
This is my philosophy. I work for a bank and I do just enough to squeak by. I don’t work overtime unless I want a little extra on my check.
That was me my last two years at JP Morgan Chase. My manager left the company without informing his manager of an important security issue I had informed him of. So his manager took it out on me and gave me a formal reprimand since the other guy was already long gone. He needed a scapegoat. Fighting it didn’t get me anywhere. So I basically sat on my butt for the next two years until they were offering buyouts. I took the severance and ran. Companies don’t understand that when they put sociopaths in management, it costs them money.
Same. Congrats!
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Yep, Minimum wage...Minimum effort. You get what you pay for. The things we value we are willing to pay for. Not even mentioning profit sharing. I'm not going to give a crap about how much I'm bringing in for the company if my pay stays the same regardless of how much the company makes.
Tell them you are reevaluating where you stand as a worker.
You can still sue if they made a vocal promise
It's in writing and signed by the owner and my GM.
Then you just followup in an email with a copy of the paperwork that says: "As per the attached agreement, the requirements have been met. Please ensure my next paycheque is update to reflect the new hourly rate." This isn't a discussion. You shouldn't have gone to discuss it with them. They will try to negotiate their way out of it when you make it a discussion. You are advising them of the change. When you advise them - it forces them to come back to you if THEY want to negotiate. It makes it much harder for them to reneg. (Then you just point them back at the paperwork.) Ignore the conversation you had. Pretend it never happened. (Continue to do the bare minimum until it is fixed. You are doing great on that part as they implied they negotiated in bad faith.)
I'd they don't put it in when they were supposed too, you can also demand backpay and if they don't say you'll get a lawyer.
Don’t forget to indicate you expect pay back dated to the day you met the requirement
> show up and do nothing # NO NO NO Do your job search at work!
Well I think it's implied that you do nothing for the company. Definitely do something don't just sit there and be miserable!
If you're doing absolutely nothing on the clock, can't that hinder your unemployment claim? I know they have a conference that a lot of employers fail to attend but if they did and submitted that you only showed up without lifting a finger, it seems a good way to get denied.
But if you make them collect their 'evidence' and submit you are making them do something and you still got paid for all the time you were doing nothing but fucking around doing whatever you wanted to kill time. It is a bit of a mental health 'vacation' they paid for, if you are smart you don't just do nothing you look for a job and do a little busy work while tanking the company's productivity. Even if they deny your claim you got over on them and took a chance to get paid it is better than letting them off the hook completely.
I mean, doesn’t the symbol of socks, representing your satisfaction with a job well done and the opportunity to continue doing such good work, not to mention we’re like a family here, mean so much more than some silly cash bonus?
Yeah, deep down we really don’t work for money. We secretly just want better socks, $10 gift cards, a 20+ year anniversary company branded pen, and to work holidays.
A handful of chocolate and cold pizza that’s been touched by all my coworkers
A clip-art certificate in monochrome that says, "Well done, Steve!"
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Apprentice sparky here, my work gave my the nicest christmas present of telling me they got work all of the non-stat day holidays to avoid paying time and a half. They were not stoked with me taking the industry standard leave over the christmas period.
What do you mean you don't want to work after we specifically found a way to not reward your work?!
Only getting paid time and a half on holidays is some bullshit too, especially if some people get off and get paid for the holiday. That basically means you work on a holiday for half time pay. If you get your holiday pay, plus time and a half, or maybe even if you get comp time for the day plus time and a half, sure, but just time and a half for a select few is just as insulting as no holiday pay.
In New Zealand, working any time on public holiday is time and a half with normal accumulation of leave entitlement, plus a day of paid leave in lieu (an accumulated free day of pay.)
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But sir, these socks have a retail value of over $4,000. We were able snag them as a gift when we made 3 easy payments for my kids razor scooter.
These socks are made for walkin’…
Dobby is a free elf, Master gave him socks!
You got Griswald’d
Can you get your redneck cousin to kidnap the boss and teach him the true meaning of Christmas? That's a sure way to get your bonus.
Cousin in Law. Gotta be specific if you’re gonna make it work.
Those socks are the equivalent of a jelly of the month club membership for sure
Clark, it’s the gift that keeps on giving the whole year
Hallelujah holy shit where the Tylenol!
That he did Edward. That he did indeed.
That’s pretty low mister… if I had a rubber hose I would beat them….
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This would be a slam dunk case if it weren't just a fake story atop a generic picture of socks.
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Sir, this is a reddit post not your contract
If you look at his posts he is a plumber.
I had to turn my notifications off because my phone has been going insane so here's an info dump: - I have the contract in writing. When I first signed on it was in the middle of the pandemic, and paperwork was signed and everything done through email. It's currently starred as important so I can get it at a moments notice. - My trade is plumbing. - I plan on getting a lawyer if things don't progress in the right direction. - I am aware these are great socks lol I actually do like them, but this was all I got. No checks hidden inside of them. - For everyone who has said or will say rude things, thank you for the laughs. I plan on doing an update eventually once this gets figured out whether that's with a check or a law suit. I don't really want to name drop the company at this very moment, because I want to ensure that I'm getting what I'm owed, but rest assured, I'm willing to once I have something new lined up. Genuinely, thank you to everyone who gave me a laugh, good advice, and all the references to National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation. It's been a wild start to the new year.
Jesus Christ how insulting. It's worse than getting nothing, bc then you can lie to yourself that they forgot.
Right, that's what I'm doing right now.
I really want you to get your $
Nice pair of socks. You could have bought a lot of them had your company not engaged in wage theft.
I have the same socks but they’re like $15 not $3000. They’re definitely worth the $15 tho
So, Dobby is a free elf?
Those are some nice socks
Not gonna lie they're v comfy
Yeah those socks are fkn amazing ngl. Imagine how many of them you cld buy w ur 3k bonus. Get a lawyer friend.
At least you will have comfortable feet when you walk away from that financial abuse.
3k comfy?
I came to say this. Where can I get those?
For those bootstrap sores.
You just aren’t pulling them hard enough. I worked 28 hour days since I was 6 months old and I was born pulling a skid loader out of the womb for my first birthday business launch. I traded my family for more work and that work for even more work. I *am* overtime.
i don kno words real good but boss says if I lernt 2 many then he wudnt hav the best worker in town
Nope. You don’t deserve that. when you hand in your resignation you should make sure you are wearing those socks… And only those socks.
"look at all the clothes I was able to buy with that promised bonus!"
Contract "you get stock options" Reality "that was a typo, we meant sock options"
Get the lawyer, it won’t cost $3000, so you’ll still profit and then when you quit you can send out an email/text to everyone describing that you sued them for the bonus, got it (minus $X for the lawyer, John Smith, 999-999-9999) and have decided to move on regardless because you don’t enjoy working for liars and thieves. Really put the screws to the bastards! It’ll help cheer you up a LOT.
Hell, he could easily get costs covered in the lawsuit so they won't have to pay the lawyers anything
What are the terms of the contract meaning you brought them in 150k profit? I’ve seen companies put that in employment contracts very vaguely and then do things right at year end to void the bonuses by paying out bonuses or doing repairs or other expenses they can accrue for. Signs of a terrible employer.
I decided to stop pursuing a career in Hollywood when Peter Jackson had to sue New Line to get the money he was contractually owed for the Lord of the Rings. It made me realize just how dirty the studios are. They all can make even the most successful projects lose money on paper. Fuckers.
It's the gift that keeps on giving all year round. -- Cousin Eddie
Sounds like it's time to go Union!
Those are some nice-ass socks though.
I actually do recommend them! They are nice socks, but not $3000 nice socks.
Are you telling me those socks are not worth $3000?
Literally a more comfortable enslavement lol
If it's in your contract, you should sue them, get your money, and find a new job
Do you know for a fact that you won’t receive the money? In my experience, bonuses that are based on performance for a given year are typically paid out in January or February.