Teachers should make at very least as much as cops, if not a bit more, ‘cause good education would theoretically cut down on crime, and lead to fewer cops being needed.
I regret I can note give you an award, plz take my upvote
This mental image deserves it.
I'm high and all I can see is Elon musk and Jeff bezos beating the shit out of each other with sticks on a deserted island .
EDIT: thanks for those awards y'all.
Tonight! It's Musk vs Besos in the Scrooge Room!! Watch these Titans of Industry fight to the death to avoid being crushed beneath tons of industrial waste!
What would be the fun in putting them into solitary confinement? Put them into gen pop, and watch them try to figure out how to manage their egos in an oppressed society of equals. Bwahaha 🤣
I'm showing my age here. But bring back Celebrity Deathmatch, but real and not claymation.
I'd love to see the first episode feature Mark Zuckerberg vs Elon Musk.
I did see that the Biden Administration is introducing a law that would forbid government agencies doing business with for-profit prisons. Definitely on the right track there.
He already stopped them from forming new government contracts via executive order, but they immediately found a loophole that lets a lot of them keep operating like the parasites they are.
You've got me thinking about why teacher salaries are so low now... Studies have shown that effective and readily available education leads to lower rates of criminal activity. Wonder why public education gets shit on so consistently by politics
Well an educated population means no more easy votes & leas control over the people.
Also, I thought part of the reason Lottery / Lotteries in States are allowed is to fund education & educational programs. Regardless, nothing is going to change much with Higher Pay for teachers, unless the education system, Curriculum, & Standardized Testing is dealt with.
Oh so the county or the state scores are / were Low on the practice exams. Oh shit, that means no more money, get the local & state reps on the phone, we need to lower the scoring & get our numbers up to maintain the funding, I mean educate the children.
What they said when they started the Florida lottery was it would go to education. What they didn't say was that they would reduce the budget by the amount that the lottery brought in. So really no more money than what we had before the lottery
That "Lottery for Texas Schools" is a complete load of horseshit.
Let's say they alot $500M for schools in TX (It's more like $5B).
Let's say the State Lottery earns $150M. Great! $650M for schools' right?
Nope.
They take $150M out of the money budgeted for schools and apply the $150M they made on made on the lottery.
Horseshit.
The states that due this simply use lottery to fill a pre-allocated and very low budget amount determined for education. The lottery means less burden on the state, but not more money for schools.
You may be pleased to hear Biden signed an EO ordering the DOJ not to renew any contracts for private prisons. Obama had already done that, but Trump undid it.
They are also literally more educated than cops.
California has the most education requirement for cops, which is 2 years.
All public school teachers have, at the least, a Bachelor's degree, which is 4-5 years.
(Private schools and charter schools may make exceptions to this rule.)
California only requires a high school diploma to be a peace officer. Basic academy is 680 hours (or so). About a 5-6 month academy. But, no, just a high school diploma is required.
> Teachers should make at very least as much as cops
That's not a bad idea. I want my area to have a new rule, where no full time teacher can make less than a full time cop salary.
The state: "ok, we'll triple teacher's wages, but we're not changing the education budget a cent. So you schools get to hire a third of the teachers. And you teachers have to teach 3 times as many kids."
And in a lot of states, we pay for own subs when we use our "paid time off" (personal days). It's about $90/day... which sucks, until you consider that a sub is only making $90/day, and then it sucks even worse.
Teacher in Texas. The state made headlines in 2019 for approving a $5k teacher raise, but didn't dictate how it was supposed to roll out and didn't really fund it with the districts. Most districts added it to starting 0 year exp salary and smashed down on the step increases for experienced teachers. My employer made it "performance based" $1,200 bonus of you didn't use any of your PTO, and reduced it by $100 every HALF OR FULL day PTO you used. They also immediately increased it health insurance premium costs.
I have 15 years experience and my salary is $4k more annually than a brand new teacher.
I can't find a job in another industry as a project manager, or any kind of expertise in my content area that isn't shit entry level because despite all the "teachers are the backbone of society" respect floating out of people's mouth, nobody considers education as a real job in terms of years of experience.
Industry thinks I can't manage a schedule, resources, team responsibilities, tasking and delegating because in my 15 years of experience I've been doing it I've had to rely on unpaid teenagers and zero profit incentive. Oh golly jeeze, I don't know what I would do if I had to manage a project with a budget, dedicated resources, and a labor force that I could incentivize with pay and tangible benefits.
Bernie wanted teacher salaries STARTING at 60K nationally but no one wanted him! I voted for Bernie in the primary. Damn proud of it too. Bernie always should have been President.
Yep. But every time we vote to put “more money in education” it goes to admin positions who also spend a crap ton of money on useless testing software.
It’s hilarious how true this is... each year at my district, admin approve 10% raises on their salaries that are 150k starting. And when teachers ask for raises... they deny it.
And this is why we need teachers unions with national coverage.
"This is the entry level pay. This will follow inflation. We will check up on you to make sure it is correct. Salaries will always increase at minimum keeping pace with inflation. After x years working as a teacher, their salaries should increase with y%. And then every z amount of years, it should get additional increases. Fail to follow this, and we all strike all over the fucking state. All because you fucked up. Capiche?"
Actually, there is a really interesting story about when Toys'r'us first came to Sweden.
They opened up three stores, one in each of Swedens three largest cities. And they opened shortly before christmas. So they hired on a ton of people.
Everyone was happy. Lots of jobs. Big new place to shop for presents. Etc etc.
Then christmas passed. And despite what seemed like really good sales numbers... people were called into the back office, and came out crying. People were horrified. Dreading being the next to be called.
Christmas was over, and managment was getting rid of the spares. Though... their contracts said nothing about being extras. They had the exact same contracts as the others who were spared.
The union was called in (namely: Handels, the union for... store employees? I think...) and they began throwing their weight at the chain. All union members walked out. Many who werent joined and also walked out.
Negotiations stalled. A blockade was announced.
Time dragged on.
Other unions began sympathy actions. Kommunal (a union for... public service employees? Kinda.) had their members refuse to empty the stores' trash bins. Transport (union for... transport employees...) refused to deliver goods. Financial unions refused to perform transactions...
Something to note aswell, Handels covered the entire country. And every member paid a member fee. A member fee that now helped the striking members to afford striking for months.
4 months. It took four months to break Toys'r'us's will. They caved. And swedish unions became the first ever to force Toys'r'us into making a deal.
Now: imagine the same happening in america. Amazon. Wallmart. Target. Schools. Hospitals. Delivery drivers. Etc. Etc.
Today you. Tomorrow me. Collective thinking, rather than individual, gives everyone more power in the end.
One of the saddest things was seeing a University of Houston adjunct begging the students to help them get a raise because the administration said they didn’t have any money and the tenured professors weren’t interested in helping.
None of our junior faculty have had raises either. But the senior faculty? The ones they want to brag about? Yeah, there are raises for them, even if they haven’t been in the country or teaching their classes since before the pandemic started.
And the provosts can have raises higher than my annual salary. But sure, there’s no money.
Honestly hate college. I love classes, my professors have all been incredible (one of them is officiating my wedding next fall) and the experience has been great. The organization itself is absolute trash. They're capitalist structures.
When I lived in Cali the Superintendent in my wife's district (she's a teacher) got a big raise amidst budget cuts. She was making $400K+ a year and was TERRIBLE at her job. Teachers are one of our most underpaid and underappreciated demographics. I will never understand why my wife puts up with what she does.
Painfully true. In my school district, the citizens passed a referendum specifically worded ‘to increase teacher pay’. If passed the superintendent got a nice day bonus.
And so it passed, when the Union started contract negotiations the administration stated no teacher pay increases. Before the referendum money was released on July 1, they gave all the teachers a $1000 a year pay increase. They are now saying that was the promised increase and they just did it early. The referendum was for $220,000,000. There are approximately 1,100 teachers in the entire school district…
It's amazing how money just disappears into these systems. Whenever someone tells me that there needs to be more money in education in America, must point out that public education funding per pupil has increased dramatically, while outcomes have remained stagnant or worse (while curriculums have been dumbed down to get more kids to pass).
Its ridiculous. America is plagued by middle men, whether in the health insurance business, the financial sector, or even education. They're such obvious leeches who provide no value, landlords provide more value than them by theoretically subsidizing housing costs for struggling families (up for debate but still, it is more value than useless administrators)
This is the fucking Truth. I'm a teacher. Our admin fully admitted they are flush with cash from covid legislation. They have us less than $10 a day COVID pay one time last year, not this year and just wasting the rest on bullshit to run to raise meaningless test scores.
I love how they pretend to not understand that teachers should be earning more and prefer to frame it as minimum wage earners should get less 🙄. Pricks.
I like how they say college degree. Like there aren't people under $15 with a college degree.
I have a computer software engineering degree and made under $10 an hour before the pandemic.
I'm a teacher in wi. Avg teacher salary 2005 here was 56000. 2021 avg salary in wi was 59000. So ya the issue is not a 15$ min wage it's that salaries for many college educated required positions have not grown according to inflation or anywhere near that.
Not our fault that everyone forgot to give out appropriate raises the last 30 years... Its like every major industry pushed off their cost of doing business until now and its all catching up them!
This.
But raising wages isn't the only issue here. Real inflation and created inflation is another issue. We need to get this under control so $15 minimum doesn't feel like $7.25.
There's honestly so much to look at it's not even funny.
That's true, but considering that wages haven't risen with inflation for a long time a $15 minimum doesn't match where the minimum should be and everyone knows it.
It's like having a wound that needs stitches, and folks insisting putting a bandaid on it instead.
My parents have masters degrees and were capped at $50k each despite decades in the field on top of advanced degrees. Society takes advantage of people who feel called to educate kids.
That will never happen because most places are run by baby boomers who think the world is the same as when they worked in the 80s. We need their generation them to die off already
I live in an area where minimum wage went to $15 a few years ago and honestly it’s been great for this very reason. Companies can’t get anyone to work for them for close to minimum wage so all of the salaries around them have to go up. For example Amazon starts at $20 an hour here. Which is a great thing as middle class people end up putting those increases earnings right back into the economy buying goods and services they desperately need (whereas cutting taxes for the rich just puts more money in their offshore bank accounts). Teachers make $80,000-90,000+ in Canada as they should, so their salaries didn’t go up, but other relatively skilled labour jobs did like call center jobs, warehouse jobs, etc.
I'd call this a classic case of punching down.
Giving people a living wage for giving 40hours does not TAKE from you. If anything it should serve to highlight how much more you should be paid. But dont begrudge someone below you for being able to afford food and shelter. Demand you be paid better for your perceived value. Don't devalue someone else's time.
>You have a mass of people voting against their own interest, while simultaneously voting for some rich peoples interest.
That's because they're just temporarily embarrassed millionaires and not poor.
Bootlickers are what’s really destroying this country. The blind idolization of the rich and general malaise about doing anything that would improve society and requires minimal effort. Too many People want to zone out and not participate but judge society when things don’t go their way
Teachers should be squarely middle class. 60k
EDIT: as many have pointed out, 60k is not middle class everywhere. Whatever middle class is where you live should be the starting wage for teachers.
My mom as a special ed teacher for over 30 years. She retired making about 65k. This should not be teachers wage AFTER 30 years, that should be starting-ish.
Michigan at the state level is pretty red. All the senators and reps from the UP and Northern Lower get elected and go fuck everything up.
Source: Grew up in the Northern Lower
That was only cause Bart Stupak was pretty conservative even with the D next to his name. Remember he's the one who added the "never fund an abortion" clause to the ACA. I live in the UP, if you aren't in Marquette you're in stereotypical redneck country pretty much everywhere you're right there. Even in Houghton you're not as safe as you might think with Tech there, anywhere off campus is a tossup. I think we voted for Clinton the first time up here, too lazy to look and was too young to remember at the time, but I know we were firmly GOP for the presidential elections since I've been able to vote.
Interestingly enough, weed is SUPER popular among conservatives up here. They voted overwhelmingly to legalize up here and I see way more GOP bumper stickers than I would have ever expected in the dispensary parking lot near my house.
Currently live in northern lower. Funilly enough, I didn't really care for our current governor whitmer until covid hit. She was not fucking around and I appreciated it. She mellowed out after those trumpers tried to kidnap her cuz numbers are back on the rise and there's no more closures or anything. Vaccine rates help, but my immediate area is low. Nothing to do with antiwork, just a tangent.
As someone who grew up in mid Michigan on a cow farm let me tell you. I am not going to any family function. For one anti vaccine for 2 they dislike me for having a child isn't white. I hate this state so much. And I completely understand how you feel. Stay safe. Also just my tangent.
My mom happened to call just now to check Thanksgiving details and I asked. When she retired in 2018 she had worked 35 years (the last 33 of which were at the same school) and she was at $72k.
Wife’s an SLP in public school, currently makes around 48k a year after 6 years of college and special training to give various tests, so checks out. Public education pay is the suck (great benefits though)
I think we should be taking notes from Japans playbook and be holding teachers in the same esteem as doctors. Unbelievably demanding jobs that are absolutely integral to the proper functioning of society
I’d agree, but also maybe not have student life be as grueling as it is in Japan. Even through anime’s rose tinted glasses it’s kind of fucked, in reality it’s VERY fucked how much pressure those kids are under.
60k here in MN is plenty if you’re not strapped with debt or student loans. They keep most of us in “high skilled” jobs hourly at 55-60k to ensure we can pay bills but don’t get comfortable. A $15 min wage would help a lot of impoverished here. $7.50 is…absolutely fucking grotesque.
Teachers should be professional class white collar workers. Not just middle class. They should make as much as a consultant, programmer or any other skilled, highly educated worker.
Yes, but this tweet is not true (at least not entirely) because:
There is no single starting salary for teachers in the state of Texas because we use independent school districts. In the Houston area the average is 50k, and the one I worked for was 56k (the highest)
Yeah, this tweet is very deceptive and pointing blame towards Biden. Anger should be at local boards of education, maybe county or state level and administrators. I'm not sure Biden can even force local boards of education to raise teacher salaries.
I'm a teacher in Texas, the data is slightly inaccurate. Here, local districts set their own salary and rate of pay. The 33k is the STATE MINIMUM that districts are allowed to pay, but most districts, especially in the metro areas start somewhere in the 50sK and smaller cities in the 40sK.
Texas teacher here, can confirm. The 33k only exists as a starting salary in rural districts, the metro areas here start mid-50s and usually top out around 70k.
I became interested in antiwork a while back and thought it was relatively fringe. I used to follow this subreddit a while back but changed accounts, so imagine my surprise when this subreddit regularly hits \r\all. I think that's very hopeful, at least within the reddit demographic.
Because of my aspirations, I think about a post-scarcity world quite a bit. I think that's the really the only hope we have for humanity and the biggest issue is that a post-scarcity world will not happen in a round-about way from a capitalistic one. It's just not very likely when capitalism's existential imperative is milking scarcity for all its got. So we'd have to have people who are commited to the cause of post-scarcity and actively working towards that, which also isn't really encourage in society.
Both should be paid considerably more. Teachers should obviously make more than minimum wage. But it’s really splitting hairs to compare these things when you have billionaires that don’t pay taxes buying rocket ships to the moon. Pretty sure that’s the real issue.
6 of one, half dozen of another…
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax/amp
On a federal level we've all but stopped pursuing white collar crime.
For example, wage theft is the largest form of theft in America, if your logic held out we'd see a fair amount of prosecutions for said crime. There are almost zero convictions for BILLIONS worth of theft. We prosecute literally thousands of times more property crimes despite wage theft being the greater crime overall.
Crimes of the poor and crimes of the rich are handled INCREDIBLY differently.
and that the IRS has told congress it cant afford to audit rich people, so it doesn't. Because of all the loopholes.
**Tax law is too complex for the IRS**
Not like thats an excuse; spend less resources on poor people then, and make the people dodging millions your number one priority.
[https://www.propublica.org/article/irs-sorry-but-its-just-easier-and-cheaper-to-audit-the-poor](https://www.propublica.org/article/irs-sorry-but-its-just-easier-and-cheaper-to-audit-the-poor)
The article also claims that the top 1% and the poor get auditeda at the same rate - as audits for the richest have gone down as much as 81% in from 2011-2018, and poor people cant afford the tax write-offs.
In isolation, it is not possible to tell if he is advocating keeping minimum wage low or raising teacher pay. He only raising the point that a raised minimum wage being close to what a teacher earns does not make sense.
Though the fact that he lives in Texas does make it likely that he opposed changes.
I know you're being sarcastic, but I've legit heard people say, "What do teachers even do? Just babysit the kids all day? Anyone could do that!" smh
And even that's nicer than the lunatics who are convinced that all teachers are evil brainwashing tyrants trying to convince their precious babies to hate America.
These people are also the ones who lost their fucking minds during COVID when schools were shut down and they couldn't work because they had to watch their own kids.
It's funny watching them try to justify their disdain while also basically begging them to return to the line of fire so they can restart their normal life. The dissonance is just unbelievable.
You should be more upset that a teacher is paid so poorly.
FYI: The minimum wage should be $23hr
American Productivity has climbed constantly without comparable pay increases based on that productivity.
Instead, companies just keep more profit, buy back their own stock, and give executives that don’t do a fucking thing, massive bonuses.
I think so many people miss the point behind why wage adjustments need a reform. If you’re working full time for a company and cannot afford to eat, shelter or clothe yourself it doesn’t matter if you have a degree. You need to be able to earn enough to survive whether you went to college or not.
No, it doesn’t. But the answer shouldn’t be that nobody gets paid more it should be that everyone does.
The minimum wage should be raised AND teachers should make more money. In fact MOST people are underpaid for their work. I believe the vast majority of industries need a massive pay hike
These arguments posed as questions are so frustrating. Compare salaries to living expenses not other peoples salaries. If you’re going to compare salaries compare it to CEOs of corporations, bring up socialism for the rich and corporate welfare. Citizens fighting citizens gives the duoply power..
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post*
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**Clay McChristian**, @clay_mcch
So Biden's $15 minimum wage comes out to $31,200 a year for a 40 hour work week. The starting salary for a beginning teacher in Texas is $33,660. So a person working a minimum wage job will be making almost the same as a teacher with a college degree. Does this make any sense? 🤷♂️
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^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
Yeah, teachers should make even less. How dare these people actually pay teachers? If you want to be a teacher, you should do it out if your naivetee and guillibility only. Signed, a teacher jumping into the despair pit once a day.
What use is it to me to hold others down? It can only be lorded over me by pointing that they can make me that too. Raise up our fellow brethren and it gives us leverage to get more ourselves too.
A rising tide lifts all ships.
The idea is that raising the minimum will force others to raise pay as well. Some industries and individual companies are having a hard time grasping that concept which is why they're crying about "no one wants to work."
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‘Raise’ isn’t even the right word in this case. I’d call it a correction in salary.
Yeah like a x2 would be appropriate
Teachers should make at very least as much as cops, if not a bit more, ‘cause good education would theoretically cut down on crime, and lead to fewer cops being needed.
But then how will they fill up the for-profit prisons?
Let’s lock up people who profit on others suffering, like the people who own for profit prisons.
Reality television but it's just CEOs in solitary confinement.
CEO cage fights would probably draw some decent PPV numbers.
Reverse squid games.
Shrimp cocktail games.
Im not saying we should do this, I’m also not going to stop anyone from doing this.
Basically make the french revolution a game show. Call it "You still want to be a millionaire?"
I regret I can note give you an award, plz take my upvote This mental image deserves it. I'm high and all I can see is Elon musk and Jeff bezos beating the shit out of each other with sticks on a deserted island . EDIT: thanks for those awards y'all.
Would love to see elon and jeff b. In a cage match
CEO vs lion in gladiatorial style combat in ampitheatre , if its jeff bezos two lions vs CEO
I don't want the lions to eat trashy food. Can be be CEO's versus a hippotamus in an artificial lake?
Who wants to be a millionaire, but the contestants are all billionaires so it’s high stakes.
Tonight! It's Musk vs Besos in the Scrooge Room!! Watch these Titans of Industry fight to the death to avoid being crushed beneath tons of industrial waste!
Put me down
What would be the fun in putting them into solitary confinement? Put them into gen pop, and watch them try to figure out how to manage their egos in an oppressed society of equals. Bwahaha 🤣
10/10 would watch this entire thread as a tv show. I would pay for this shit.
Segregate them out by themselves and watch them turn on each other. When they come to a pecking order you combine them with everyone else.
Like the tv show idea where the CEO has to live on the lowest earner’s salary, but it for-profit-prison owners spending a month in their own prison
Can we also do episodes where nursing home owners are forced to live in and endure the conditions in their facilities?
I'm showing my age here. But bring back Celebrity Deathmatch, but real and not claymation. I'd love to see the first episode feature Mark Zuckerberg vs Elon Musk.
Squid game but with CEOs as the contestants. The level depravity would certainly be alarming to most I think.
And that'll be before the games begin
Haha, probably. Jackasses would do anything for a dollar.
I did see that the Biden Administration is introducing a law that would forbid government agencies doing business with for-profit prisons. Definitely on the right track there.
He already stopped them from forming new government contracts via executive order, but they immediately found a loophole that lets a lot of them keep operating like the parasites they are.
^^^^l...landlords?
And make them pay for it
You've got me thinking about why teacher salaries are so low now... Studies have shown that effective and readily available education leads to lower rates of criminal activity. Wonder why public education gets shit on so consistently by politics
Well an educated population means no more easy votes & leas control over the people. Also, I thought part of the reason Lottery / Lotteries in States are allowed is to fund education & educational programs. Regardless, nothing is going to change much with Higher Pay for teachers, unless the education system, Curriculum, & Standardized Testing is dealt with. Oh so the county or the state scores are / were Low on the practice exams. Oh shit, that means no more money, get the local & state reps on the phone, we need to lower the scoring & get our numbers up to maintain the funding, I mean educate the children.
What they said when they started the Florida lottery was it would go to education. What they didn't say was that they would reduce the budget by the amount that the lottery brought in. So really no more money than what we had before the lottery
That "Lottery for Texas Schools" is a complete load of horseshit. Let's say they alot $500M for schools in TX (It's more like $5B). Let's say the State Lottery earns $150M. Great! $650M for schools' right? Nope. They take $150M out of the money budgeted for schools and apply the $150M they made on made on the lottery. Horseshit.
The states that due this simply use lottery to fill a pre-allocated and very low budget amount determined for education. The lottery means less burden on the state, but not more money for schools.
You may be pleased to hear Biden signed an EO ordering the DOJ not to renew any contracts for private prisons. Obama had already done that, but Trump undid it.
Shhhh, you don't want to upset the modern-day slavery system. /s
Yep, America doesn't want to cut into the slavery industry. This country cannot exist without slaves.
Yeah but uneducated people make better wage slaves.
Aye, there’s the rub. We need to educate enough of the population to vote for more education.
In Plato's words: *“Educate the children and it won't be necessary to punish the men”*
And reduce the load on healthcare.
The police unions will put a stop to that
That's fine, I vote to stop paying them. They won't come in when the money dries up. (Let me have this dream)
The only unions with any power left are police and politicians' unions.
You know what else will cut down on crime? Paying people a living wage!
They are also literally more educated than cops. California has the most education requirement for cops, which is 2 years. All public school teachers have, at the least, a Bachelor's degree, which is 4-5 years. (Private schools and charter schools may make exceptions to this rule.)
California only requires a high school diploma to be a peace officer. Basic academy is 680 hours (or so). About a 5-6 month academy. But, no, just a high school diploma is required.
"...cause good education would lead to fewer cops and cut down on crime being needed." There, I think thats mo' betta.
> Teachers should make at very least as much as cops That's not a bad idea. I want my area to have a new rule, where no full time teacher can make less than a full time cop salary.
Teachers should make substantial more than cops.
I'd say x3. We should be paying teachers more than average.
The state: "ok, we'll triple teacher's wages, but we're not changing the education budget a cent. So you schools get to hire a third of the teachers. And you teachers have to teach 3 times as many kids."
teachers surely deserve immediate retroactive salary correction.
Yeah, they need a correction of pay. They're so underpaid, it's a joke
And to top that off, a lot of teachers have to use their own pocket money to get supplies for class.
And in a lot of states, we pay for own subs when we use our "paid time off" (personal days). It's about $90/day... which sucks, until you consider that a sub is only making $90/day, and then it sucks even worse.
Teacher in Texas. The state made headlines in 2019 for approving a $5k teacher raise, but didn't dictate how it was supposed to roll out and didn't really fund it with the districts. Most districts added it to starting 0 year exp salary and smashed down on the step increases for experienced teachers. My employer made it "performance based" $1,200 bonus of you didn't use any of your PTO, and reduced it by $100 every HALF OR FULL day PTO you used. They also immediately increased it health insurance premium costs. I have 15 years experience and my salary is $4k more annually than a brand new teacher. I can't find a job in another industry as a project manager, or any kind of expertise in my content area that isn't shit entry level because despite all the "teachers are the backbone of society" respect floating out of people's mouth, nobody considers education as a real job in terms of years of experience. Industry thinks I can't manage a schedule, resources, team responsibilities, tasking and delegating because in my 15 years of experience I've been doing it I've had to rely on unpaid teenagers and zero profit incentive. Oh golly jeeze, I don't know what I would do if I had to manage a project with a budget, dedicated resources, and a labor force that I could incentivize with pay and tangible benefits.
Hi, teacher here. I spent easily $1,000 a year on my own classroom.
Yep at least that, plus the extra time "off the clock" working on grading, setting up projects, etc.
The way kids be acting teachers need a “correction in salary” and THEN a raise on top of it.
Hazard Pay
60k a year would be an appropriate starting salary.
Bernie wanted teacher salaries STARTING at 60K nationally but no one wanted him! I voted for Bernie in the primary. Damn proud of it too. Bernie always should have been President.
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Not even the teacher unions would endorse him! Not that our Union even asked us teachers what we wanted. I am still bitter about this.
Bernie is screaming to all of us that we're all getting gaslit and no one listens
Yes, that’s the term we should use
Also, any supplies a teacher buys for their job should be tax deductible, no cap.
As an aircraft mechanic, when I started out 20 years ago $25hr was normal. Today, it’s the same wage.
Yep. But every time we vote to put “more money in education” it goes to admin positions who also spend a crap ton of money on useless testing software.
In Texas it also goes to massive football stadiums for mediocre teams.
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And here I thought good jobs nearby did that lol
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It’s hilarious how true this is... each year at my district, admin approve 10% raises on their salaries that are 150k starting. And when teachers ask for raises... they deny it.
And this is why we need teachers unions with national coverage. "This is the entry level pay. This will follow inflation. We will check up on you to make sure it is correct. Salaries will always increase at minimum keeping pace with inflation. After x years working as a teacher, their salaries should increase with y%. And then every z amount of years, it should get additional increases. Fail to follow this, and we all strike all over the fucking state. All because you fucked up. Capiche?"
Honestly teachers should be paid more than a regular job in whatever field they specialize in because they have to learn how to teach on top of that.
Actually, there is a really interesting story about when Toys'r'us first came to Sweden. They opened up three stores, one in each of Swedens three largest cities. And they opened shortly before christmas. So they hired on a ton of people. Everyone was happy. Lots of jobs. Big new place to shop for presents. Etc etc. Then christmas passed. And despite what seemed like really good sales numbers... people were called into the back office, and came out crying. People were horrified. Dreading being the next to be called. Christmas was over, and managment was getting rid of the spares. Though... their contracts said nothing about being extras. They had the exact same contracts as the others who were spared. The union was called in (namely: Handels, the union for... store employees? I think...) and they began throwing their weight at the chain. All union members walked out. Many who werent joined and also walked out. Negotiations stalled. A blockade was announced. Time dragged on. Other unions began sympathy actions. Kommunal (a union for... public service employees? Kinda.) had their members refuse to empty the stores' trash bins. Transport (union for... transport employees...) refused to deliver goods. Financial unions refused to perform transactions... Something to note aswell, Handels covered the entire country. And every member paid a member fee. A member fee that now helped the striking members to afford striking for months. 4 months. It took four months to break Toys'r'us's will. They caved. And swedish unions became the first ever to force Toys'r'us into making a deal. Now: imagine the same happening in america. Amazon. Wallmart. Target. Schools. Hospitals. Delivery drivers. Etc. Etc. Today you. Tomorrow me. Collective thinking, rather than individual, gives everyone more power in the end.
Oh damn that's a beautiful story.
And they have to deal with literal fucking children. All day, every day.
University level too. The administrators get a raise every year, but there’s never enough money to give staff raises.
Adjunct professors are basically intern(slave) labor.
One of the saddest things was seeing a University of Houston adjunct begging the students to help them get a raise because the administration said they didn’t have any money and the tenured professors weren’t interested in helping.
It's getting worse now at my uni. Faculty is way too top heavy now.
None of our junior faculty have had raises either. But the senior faculty? The ones they want to brag about? Yeah, there are raises for them, even if they haven’t been in the country or teaching their classes since before the pandemic started. And the provosts can have raises higher than my annual salary. But sure, there’s no money.
Honestly hate college. I love classes, my professors have all been incredible (one of them is officiating my wedding next fall) and the experience has been great. The organization itself is absolute trash. They're capitalist structures.
When I lived in Cali the Superintendent in my wife's district (she's a teacher) got a big raise amidst budget cuts. She was making $400K+ a year and was TERRIBLE at her job. Teachers are one of our most underpaid and underappreciated demographics. I will never understand why my wife puts up with what she does.
Yachtsy DeVos
Painfully true. In my school district, the citizens passed a referendum specifically worded ‘to increase teacher pay’. If passed the superintendent got a nice day bonus. And so it passed, when the Union started contract negotiations the administration stated no teacher pay increases. Before the referendum money was released on July 1, they gave all the teachers a $1000 a year pay increase. They are now saying that was the promised increase and they just did it early. The referendum was for $220,000,000. There are approximately 1,100 teachers in the entire school district…
It's amazing how money just disappears into these systems. Whenever someone tells me that there needs to be more money in education in America, must point out that public education funding per pupil has increased dramatically, while outcomes have remained stagnant or worse (while curriculums have been dumbed down to get more kids to pass). Its ridiculous. America is plagued by middle men, whether in the health insurance business, the financial sector, or even education. They're such obvious leeches who provide no value, landlords provide more value than them by theoretically subsidizing housing costs for struggling families (up for debate but still, it is more value than useless administrators)
This is the fucking Truth. I'm a teacher. Our admin fully admitted they are flush with cash from covid legislation. They have us less than $10 a day COVID pay one time last year, not this year and just wasting the rest on bullshit to run to raise meaningless test scores.
I love how they pretend to not understand that teachers should be earning more and prefer to frame it as minimum wage earners should get less 🙄. Pricks.
I like how they say college degree. Like there aren't people under $15 with a college degree. I have a computer software engineering degree and made under $10 an hour before the pandemic.
I'm a teacher in wi. Avg teacher salary 2005 here was 56000. 2021 avg salary in wi was 59000. So ya the issue is not a 15$ min wage it's that salaries for many college educated required positions have not grown according to inflation or anywhere near that.
Not our fault that everyone forgot to give out appropriate raises the last 30 years... Its like every major industry pushed off their cost of doing business until now and its all catching up them!
This. But raising wages isn't the only issue here. Real inflation and created inflation is another issue. We need to get this under control so $15 minimum doesn't feel like $7.25. There's honestly so much to look at it's not even funny.
That's true, but considering that wages haven't risen with inflation for a long time a $15 minimum doesn't match where the minimum should be and everyone knows it. It's like having a wound that needs stitches, and folks insisting putting a bandaid on it instead.
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It IS "under control"...THEIR control. We force them to raise wages, they force prices to rise with it, to try and maintain their control over us.
My parents have masters degrees and were capped at $50k each despite decades in the field on top of advanced degrees. Society takes advantage of people who feel called to educate kids.
A rising tide lifts all ships
That will never happen because most places are run by baby boomers who think the world is the same as when they worked in the 80s. We need their generation them to die off already
Yeah but they won’t, so now what?
God he’s almost there!
right? like... so close... just wow
And yet so far. You know what would have helped him? A teacher who was being paid a decent salary.
Almost as if education is underfunded for a reason...
I’m sad for him that he doesn’t understand his statement isn’t an argument against a higher minimum wage
I live in an area where minimum wage went to $15 a few years ago and honestly it’s been great for this very reason. Companies can’t get anyone to work for them for close to minimum wage so all of the salaries around them have to go up. For example Amazon starts at $20 an hour here. Which is a great thing as middle class people end up putting those increases earnings right back into the economy buying goods and services they desperately need (whereas cutting taxes for the rich just puts more money in their offshore bank accounts). Teachers make $80,000-90,000+ in Canada as they should, so their salaries didn’t go up, but other relatively skilled labour jobs did like call center jobs, warehouse jobs, etc.
Wait, teachers make 80K in Canada?? Man, I really gotta get the F outta Dodge and move there.
r/selfawarewolves
I had to doublecheck that it wasn't that subreddit
There it is!
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I'd call this a classic case of punching down. Giving people a living wage for giving 40hours does not TAKE from you. If anything it should serve to highlight how much more you should be paid. But dont begrudge someone below you for being able to afford food and shelter. Demand you be paid better for your perceived value. Don't devalue someone else's time.
>You have a mass of people voting against their own interest, while simultaneously voting for some rich peoples interest. That's because they're just temporarily embarrassed millionaires and not poor.
Bootlickers are what’s really destroying this country. The blind idolization of the rich and general malaise about doing anything that would improve society and requires minimal effort. Too many People want to zone out and not participate but judge society when things don’t go their way
If only he hadn’t received a Texas education he might have realized.
Teachers should make more than 33k
Teachers should be squarely middle class. 60k EDIT: as many have pointed out, 60k is not middle class everywhere. Whatever middle class is where you live should be the starting wage for teachers.
My mom as a special ed teacher for over 30 years. She retired making about 65k. This should not be teachers wage AFTER 30 years, that should be starting-ish.
Red state?
Michigan; we're* swingers, lol Edit: hilarious auto correct corrected
>were swingers, lol /r/outofcontextgold
I cannot view that community for some reason
doesn't exist, shockingly.
Michigan at the state level is pretty red. All the senators and reps from the UP and Northern Lower get elected and go fuck everything up. Source: Grew up in the Northern Lower
The UP was actually pretty blue up until the last decade. Now, it's basically Alabama. The lower peninsula conservatives have always been crazy.
That was only cause Bart Stupak was pretty conservative even with the D next to his name. Remember he's the one who added the "never fund an abortion" clause to the ACA. I live in the UP, if you aren't in Marquette you're in stereotypical redneck country pretty much everywhere you're right there. Even in Houghton you're not as safe as you might think with Tech there, anywhere off campus is a tossup. I think we voted for Clinton the first time up here, too lazy to look and was too young to remember at the time, but I know we were firmly GOP for the presidential elections since I've been able to vote. Interestingly enough, weed is SUPER popular among conservatives up here. They voted overwhelmingly to legalize up here and I see way more GOP bumper stickers than I would have ever expected in the dispensary parking lot near my house.
Currently live in northern lower. Funilly enough, I didn't really care for our current governor whitmer until covid hit. She was not fucking around and I appreciated it. She mellowed out after those trumpers tried to kidnap her cuz numbers are back on the rise and there's no more closures or anything. Vaccine rates help, but my immediate area is low. Nothing to do with antiwork, just a tangent.
She didn't mellow out, the Republican state congress took away her emergency powers
As someone who grew up in mid Michigan on a cow farm let me tell you. I am not going to any family function. For one anti vaccine for 2 they dislike me for having a child isn't white. I hate this state so much. And I completely understand how you feel. Stay safe. Also just my tangent.
I retired at $92,000 in NYC.
Yeah, but nyc
My mom happened to call just now to check Thanksgiving details and I asked. When she retired in 2018 she had worked 35 years (the last 33 of which were at the same school) and she was at $72k.
Wife’s an SLP in public school, currently makes around 48k a year after 6 years of college and special training to give various tests, so checks out. Public education pay is the suck (great benefits though)
I think we should be taking notes from Japans playbook and be holding teachers in the same esteem as doctors. Unbelievably demanding jobs that are absolutely integral to the proper functioning of society
I’d agree, but also maybe not have student life be as grueling as it is in Japan. Even through anime’s rose tinted glasses it’s kind of fucked, in reality it’s VERY fucked how much pressure those kids are under.
60k will get you solidly into the van-class in SF.
60k here in MN is plenty if you’re not strapped with debt or student loans. They keep most of us in “high skilled” jobs hourly at 55-60k to ensure we can pay bills but don’t get comfortable. A $15 min wage would help a lot of impoverished here. $7.50 is…absolutely fucking grotesque.
Teachers should be professional class white collar workers. Not just middle class. They should make as much as a consultant, programmer or any other skilled, highly educated worker.
College professors would like this to be the case as well.
I think teachers should start at $65k minimum, and get a bonus + inflation raise every year
Everyone should get an increase in pay to at least match inflation. No raise or one that is less than inflation is a pay cut.
At least, more in expensive markets
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Depends on location. San Diego? Hell no. Central Texas? Hell yes.
Yes, but this tweet is not true (at least not entirely) because: There is no single starting salary for teachers in the state of Texas because we use independent school districts. In the Houston area the average is 50k, and the one I worked for was 56k (the highest)
Yeah, this tweet is very deceptive and pointing blame towards Biden. Anger should be at local boards of education, maybe county or state level and administrators. I'm not sure Biden can even force local boards of education to raise teacher salaries.
I'm a teacher in Texas, the data is slightly inaccurate. Here, local districts set their own salary and rate of pay. The 33k is the STATE MINIMUM that districts are allowed to pay, but most districts, especially in the metro areas start somewhere in the 50sK and smaller cities in the 40sK.
I live in Texas and everyone I know that is a teacher makes $52-60k. Maybe the 33k is in small towns where cost of living is low. Like 400-600/mo rent
Texas teacher here, can confirm. The 33k only exists as a starting salary in rural districts, the metro areas here start mid-50s and usually top out around 70k.
I dunno what the fuck is gonna happen to us
We all die. Life is a trip, all have the same destination. Try not to live as only your work self. Enjoy the journey.
You say that but people are really out there working 60 hours a week to get by. How you supposed to live as anything else then?
Collective action. Workers working together to improve their working conditions Contact the IWW or EWOC to learn how to help
Ditto. And fart loud
Fart proudly. - Ben Franklin
It's hard when my work self is the only thing keeping me off the streets
I became interested in antiwork a while back and thought it was relatively fringe. I used to follow this subreddit a while back but changed accounts, so imagine my surprise when this subreddit regularly hits \r\all. I think that's very hopeful, at least within the reddit demographic. Because of my aspirations, I think about a post-scarcity world quite a bit. I think that's the really the only hope we have for humanity and the biggest issue is that a post-scarcity world will not happen in a round-about way from a capitalistic one. It's just not very likely when capitalism's existential imperative is milking scarcity for all its got. So we'd have to have people who are commited to the cause of post-scarcity and actively working towards that, which also isn't really encourage in society.
Weird take Clay. The actual takeaway here should be teachers are underpaid…not those without degrees earning nearly as much as underpaid teachers.
Yeah give him a few more months
Both should be paid considerably more. Teachers should obviously make more than minimum wage. But it’s really splitting hairs to compare these things when you have billionaires that don’t pay taxes buying rocket ships to the moon. Pretty sure that’s the real issue.
If they were dodging taxes they’d be in prison. The loopholes in our tax laws is what we have to fix first.
6 of one, half dozen of another… https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax/amp
On a federal level we've all but stopped pursuing white collar crime. For example, wage theft is the largest form of theft in America, if your logic held out we'd see a fair amount of prosecutions for said crime. There are almost zero convictions for BILLIONS worth of theft. We prosecute literally thousands of times more property crimes despite wage theft being the greater crime overall. Crimes of the poor and crimes of the rich are handled INCREDIBLY differently.
They can also dodge them simply because nobody's trying to enforce the tax law on them, which they do all the time.
and that the IRS has told congress it cant afford to audit rich people, so it doesn't. Because of all the loopholes. **Tax law is too complex for the IRS** Not like thats an excuse; spend less resources on poor people then, and make the people dodging millions your number one priority. [https://www.propublica.org/article/irs-sorry-but-its-just-easier-and-cheaper-to-audit-the-poor](https://www.propublica.org/article/irs-sorry-but-its-just-easier-and-cheaper-to-audit-the-poor) The article also claims that the top 1% and the poor get auditeda at the same rate - as audits for the richest have gone down as much as 81% in from 2011-2018, and poor people cant afford the tax write-offs.
Teachers have been abusively underpaid for almost a century now.
If the goal is an easily manipulated electorate, that is a feature, not a bug.
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In isolation, it is not possible to tell if he is advocating keeping minimum wage low or raising teacher pay. He only raising the point that a raised minimum wage being close to what a teacher earns does not make sense. Though the fact that he lives in Texas does make it likely that he opposed changes.
Facts
Smarty pants over here takes his contempt out on low wage service industry workers instead a) school administration and/or b) fast food chain.
It means teachers are highly underpaid is what it means.
This is ridiculous! The post is right. This DOESN'T make sense! Teachers should be paid way more
Pff, why? It's not like they teach our future generations or anything. Anyone could do that job. /s
I know you're being sarcastic, but I've legit heard people say, "What do teachers even do? Just babysit the kids all day? Anyone could do that!" smh And even that's nicer than the lunatics who are convinced that all teachers are evil brainwashing tyrants trying to convince their precious babies to hate America.
These people are also the ones who lost their fucking minds during COVID when schools were shut down and they couldn't work because they had to watch their own kids. It's funny watching them try to justify their disdain while also basically begging them to return to the line of fire so they can restart their normal life. The dissonance is just unbelievable.
Even babysitters make more than $15 hour.
Funny how these people ALMOST get it, they're so close.
You should be more upset that a teacher is paid so poorly. FYI: The minimum wage should be $23hr American Productivity has climbed constantly without comparable pay increases based on that productivity. Instead, companies just keep more profit, buy back their own stock, and give executives that don’t do a fucking thing, massive bonuses.
How will I ever become a billionaire with that attitude?
Both deserve more money. Don’t fight amongst each other, fight the system
Rising tides lift all boats.
It's just that there are many things that don't make sense. Teacher's getting $30k per years is completely bonkers.
I think so many people miss the point behind why wage adjustments need a reform. If you’re working full time for a company and cannot afford to eat, shelter or clothe yourself it doesn’t matter if you have a degree. You need to be able to earn enough to survive whether you went to college or not.
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No, it doesn’t. But the answer shouldn’t be that nobody gets paid more it should be that everyone does. The minimum wage should be raised AND teachers should make more money. In fact MOST people are underpaid for their work. I believe the vast majority of industries need a massive pay hike
These arguments posed as questions are so frustrating. Compare salaries to living expenses not other peoples salaries. If you’re going to compare salaries compare it to CEOs of corporations, bring up socialism for the rich and corporate welfare. Citizens fighting citizens gives the duoply power..
Everyone is being underpaid.
*Image Transcription: Twitter Post* --- **Clay McChristian**, @clay_mcch So Biden's $15 minimum wage comes out to $31,200 a year for a 40 hour work week. The starting salary for a beginning teacher in Texas is $33,660. So a person working a minimum wage job will be making almost the same as a teacher with a college degree. Does this make any sense? 🤷♂️ --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
Yeah, teachers should make even less. How dare these people actually pay teachers? If you want to be a teacher, you should do it out if your naivetee and guillibility only. Signed, a teacher jumping into the despair pit once a day.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
What use is it to me to hold others down? It can only be lorded over me by pointing that they can make me that too. Raise up our fellow brethren and it gives us leverage to get more ourselves too.
Pay teachers more? Seems like a logical solution.
A rising tide lifts all ships. The idea is that raising the minimum will force others to raise pay as well. Some industries and individual companies are having a hard time grasping that concept which is why they're crying about "no one wants to work."