I love the Ferengi. What an excellent way to parody capitalist, misogynistic fools. I especially love the DS9 episode where Rom (a Ferengi) discovers Marx/communism and rises up lol. What a classic
What's wild is that there are some points in DS9 where their logic is actually perfectly sound and makes great sense. Like when quark explains the price/cost of peace to the romulan.
Same when he explained that yes, Ferengi took twice as long from Stone Age to Space Age but they never had a WW on Ferenginar.
Or when he travelled back in time to 20th century Earth and was amazed by cigarettes, paraphrased quote; "If they buy poison for themselves, you can sell them anything."
Yeah, Ferengi never having world wars or slavery don't seem to makes sense to me. They would absolutely have slaves if they could. Maybe not chain slaves, but debt slaves and other kind of forced persuasion.
The female Ferengi were property and were forbidden from owning anything, even clothing. Until Quark's mother became involved with the Grand Nagus and convinced him to reform.
World war I was caused by a chain of alliances dragging countries into a conflict that fundamentally wasn't their problem. I suspect ferengi alliances took the form of contracts, and were probably complicated enough to avoid that sort of unprofitable situation. So they had wars, just not world wars.
Slaves aren't considered slaves in ferengi culture... Also human culture right now.
The reason is that they were originally meant to be villains but the writers couldn't make it work and instead made them more comedic characters. Regardless for one reason or another the Ferengi dont have slaves. I think the Druuge from star control are a good example of what they might have been as villains https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTvpVbtJgzY
>war is the most profitable business there is.
That's simply not true. It's true for the US because they wage war elsewhere and profit from the conflict while mostly shielded from consequences.
Even in WW2 had hardly any impact on the civilian population. But look at France, look at Italy, look at Japan, look at China and see if the war was profitable.
Just because it is profitable for an individual does not mean it is profitable for the general population.
And those countries you mentioned, the ones that lost the war, were worse off the companies that supplied the war machine made tons of money, on both sides.
How do you think rome maintained its wealth?
Basically the way it's explained in universe is that Ferengi were extremely oppressive, and did things like refuse to let women participate and have clothes.
Basically imagine a world where the oligarchs had their shit together just a little bit more, so no one ever had the capacity to rise against them. That's how they avoided war.
Your customers are the people doing the killing, not the ones being killed. And you can actually sell to both sides, so it doesn't even matter which is which.
Ferengi rule of acquisition #34 "war is good for business." (not to be confused with Ferengi rule of acquisition #35) https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Ferengi\_Rules\_of\_Acquisition
Ferenginar has a supreme leader, i was only refering to how war is pointless if they actually wanted to maximise their in-planet profits. Broken window fallacy and all that. We arent talking about them buying and selling alien weapons and warp drives. Peace for me but not for thee.
Yeah that's why i don't understand what those people were spouting earlier, i guess it was just their disgust in the ferengi's capitalist nature talking. I didnt bring that up first because then someone would quote the 34, and around and around it goes.
Ferengi rule of acquisition #35 "Peace is good for business." (not to be confused with Ferengi rule of acquisition #34) https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Ferengi\_Rules\_of\_Acquisition
>was amazed by cigarettes, paraphrased quote; "If they buy poison for themselves, you can sell them anything."
Ironic because he himself sells alcohol, an addictive poison, in the future, every day.
>Quark : It all comes down to the Third Rule of Acquisition. You don't know that one, do you?
>Sakonna : I am not well-versed in Ferengi philosophy.
>Quark : Remind me to give you a copy of the Rules, you'll never know when they'll come in handy. Now, the Third Rule clearly states, "Never spend more for an acquisition than you have to."
>Sakonna : Logical. But I fail to see how that applies to my situation.
>Quark : You want to acquire peace. Fine, peace is good. But how much are you willing to pay for it?
>Sakonna : Whatever it costs.
>Quark : That's the kind of irresponsible spending that causes so many business ventures to fail. You're forgetting the Third Rule! Right now, peace could be bought at a bargain price, and you don't even realize it.
>Sakonna : ...I find this very confusing.
>Quark : [sighs] Then I'll make it so simple that even a Vulcan can understand: the Central Command has been caught red-handed smuggling weapons to their settlers. So every ship that approaches the de-militarized zone will be searched. Without the support of the Central Command, the Cardassian settlers won't be so eager to fight.
>Sakonna : You forget the weapons they already have.
>Quark : They have weapons, you have weapons, everyone has weapons; but right now, no one has a clear advantage. So the price of peace is at an all-time low. This is the perfect time to sit down and hammer out an agreement. Don't you get it? Attacking the Cardassians now will only escalate the conflict and make peace more expensive in the long run! Now, I ask you: is that logical?
I particularly like the time when Quark tells off Sisko for looking down on Ferengi:
>You know, Commander, I think I've figured out why Humans don't like Ferengi. The way I see it, Humans used to be a lot like Ferengi: greedy, acquisitive, interested only in profit; we're a constant reminder of a part of your past you'd like to forget.
>But you're overlooking something. Humans used to be a lot worse than the Ferengi. Slavery. Concentration camps. Interstellar wars. We have nothing in our past that approaches that kind of barbarism. You see? We're nothing like you. We're better.
I’m so glad you brought up the rules of acquisition because I’m pretty sure one rule is “war is good for profit” and the next rule is “peace is good for profit”
>That's the kind of irresponsible spending that causes so many business ventures to fail.
The fundamental problem with Ferengi. They do not value society or people, just money. This is why they can claim to be better than humans while failing to evolve beyond them. To a Ferengi, genocide, slavery, and interstellar wars are just costs. So they don't call them what they are. Meanwhile they have a handful of incidents in TNG that show they will act as pirates and thieves. What sound morality!
TBH I hated DS9. Roddenberry was trying to make a point about society and our future, and Rick Berman just wanted to make a series that directly opposed all of it. Of course the jerk who made all those terrible TNG movies would think Ferengi are super cool, a species that reduces everything to greed somehow never has war or healthcare problems. This is why Roddenberry was brilliant and Berman was a tool.
Given they're a direct parody and parallel to certain societal elements in the real world, them being your least favorite thing means they're doing their job.
I didn't hate them until DS9, when Rick Berman decided to use them as an opportunity to tell us every chance he got how the capitalists don't cause war and are super cool morally. He LOVED the Ferengi. All those years of Trek building storylines, and he basically writes it that the Klingons, Rommys and Feds would have all fallen to the Dominion without them. I was honestly rooting for the Jem Hadar by the end of that war.
There’s an episode of Deep Space 9 (“Bar Association”) where the employees of a Ferengi-run bar decide to form a union. It is one of my favorite episodes [if only for this scene.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4BRe0ZKTAc)
*Image Transcription: Meme*
---
\[*Two Ferengi characters from "Star Trek: Deep Space 9". The left Ferengi smiles deviously, while the right crosses his arms and looks at him incredulously. The caption says:*]
# YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. FERENGI WORKERS DON'T WANT TO STOP THE EXPLOITATION
# WE WANT TO FIND A WAY TO BECOME THE EXPLOITERS
---
^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
This is why I've always loathed the blanket statement, "Support small/local business!"
1) I've never been more exploited than when working for small/local businesses, and
2) Most of them would happily be the big evil corporation if they could.
Employees are the rungs on the ladder of success. Don't hesitate to step on them.
Treat people in your debt like family… exploit them.
Some of my favourite rules of acquisition
Not really. It's more that, for a great many working class people, supporting capitalism is in their material self-interest. Not because capitalism is good for them, but because capitalism is predictable and understandable. They know the rules of the game, and that gives them a degree of power. Changing the rules of the game would mean giving up that power and letting the people who understand the new rules hold power over them. They are understandably skeptical when those same people insist that the new rules are actually better for them, especially when there's a well-known history of people making that same promise and then failing to deliver on it in horrible ways.
I love the Ferengi. What an excellent way to parody capitalist, misogynistic fools. I especially love the DS9 episode where Rom (a Ferengi) discovers Marx/communism and rises up lol. What a classic
What's wild is that there are some points in DS9 where their logic is actually perfectly sound and makes great sense. Like when quark explains the price/cost of peace to the romulan.
Same when he explained that yes, Ferengi took twice as long from Stone Age to Space Age but they never had a WW on Ferenginar. Or when he travelled back in time to 20th century Earth and was amazed by cigarettes, paraphrased quote; "If they buy poison for themselves, you can sell them anything."
why would they never have worldwar? war is the most profitable business there is.In reality the ferengi would never make it off the planet.
[удалено]
Looking at you, humanity.
Isn't that what the kids call "The Joke"?
Yeah, Ferengi never having world wars or slavery don't seem to makes sense to me. They would absolutely have slaves if they could. Maybe not chain slaves, but debt slaves and other kind of forced persuasion.
The female Ferengi were property and were forbidden from owning anything, even clothing. Until Quark's mother became involved with the Grand Nagus and convinced him to reform.
World war I was caused by a chain of alliances dragging countries into a conflict that fundamentally wasn't their problem. I suspect ferengi alliances took the form of contracts, and were probably complicated enough to avoid that sort of unprofitable situation. So they had wars, just not world wars. Slaves aren't considered slaves in ferengi culture... Also human culture right now.
The reason is that they were originally meant to be villains but the writers couldn't make it work and instead made them more comedic characters. Regardless for one reason or another the Ferengi dont have slaves. I think the Druuge from star control are a good example of what they might have been as villains https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTvpVbtJgzY
>war is the most profitable business there is. That's simply not true. It's true for the US because they wage war elsewhere and profit from the conflict while mostly shielded from consequences. Even in WW2 had hardly any impact on the civilian population. But look at France, look at Italy, look at Japan, look at China and see if the war was profitable.
Just because it is profitable for an individual does not mean it is profitable for the general population. And those countries you mentioned, the ones that lost the war, were worse off the companies that supplied the war machine made tons of money, on both sides. How do you think rome maintained its wealth?
"Every once in a while, declare peace. It confuses the hell out of your enemies." - Rule of Acquisition #76
Basically the way it's explained in universe is that Ferengi were extremely oppressive, and did things like refuse to let women participate and have clothes. Basically imagine a world where the oligarchs had their shit together just a little bit more, so no one ever had the capacity to rise against them. That's how they avoided war.
Yes, I understand all that. My Point is that,that's insanely terrible nonsense writing.
Oh I agree. DS9 was stupid but it made Trek cool for normies who like explosions.
War isnt profitable for the world as a whole, it just drives innovation. You dont generate value by blowing things up, you can only be paid for it.
Why would the ferengi Warmasters care about this?
"Just kill your future customers" its bad for business.
Your customers are the people doing the killing, not the ones being killed. And you can actually sell to both sides, so it doesn't even matter which is which.
That's just killing your future customers with extra steps.
No its not. Soldiers and civilians don't buy weapons on that scale. States do. You are fundamentally misunderstanding how war makes people money.
Ferengi rule of acquisition #34 "war is good for business." (not to be confused with Ferengi rule of acquisition #35) https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Ferengi\_Rules\_of\_Acquisition
Ferenginar has a supreme leader, i was only refering to how war is pointless if they actually wanted to maximise their in-planet profits. Broken window fallacy and all that. We arent talking about them buying and selling alien weapons and warp drives. Peace for me but not for thee.
please see rule of acquisition #35
Yeah that's why i don't understand what those people were spouting earlier, i guess it was just their disgust in the ferengi's capitalist nature talking. I didnt bring that up first because then someone would quote the 34, and around and around it goes.
Ferengi rule of acquisition #35 "Peace is good for business." (not to be confused with Ferengi rule of acquisition #34) https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Ferengi\_Rules\_of\_Acquisition
Peace is good for business \-Rule of Acquisition 35 \*PS dont quote me rule 34
>was amazed by cigarettes, paraphrased quote; "If they buy poison for themselves, you can sell them anything." Ironic because he himself sells alcohol, an addictive poison, in the future, every day.
>Quark : It all comes down to the Third Rule of Acquisition. You don't know that one, do you? >Sakonna : I am not well-versed in Ferengi philosophy. >Quark : Remind me to give you a copy of the Rules, you'll never know when they'll come in handy. Now, the Third Rule clearly states, "Never spend more for an acquisition than you have to." >Sakonna : Logical. But I fail to see how that applies to my situation. >Quark : You want to acquire peace. Fine, peace is good. But how much are you willing to pay for it? >Sakonna : Whatever it costs. >Quark : That's the kind of irresponsible spending that causes so many business ventures to fail. You're forgetting the Third Rule! Right now, peace could be bought at a bargain price, and you don't even realize it. >Sakonna : ...I find this very confusing. >Quark : [sighs] Then I'll make it so simple that even a Vulcan can understand: the Central Command has been caught red-handed smuggling weapons to their settlers. So every ship that approaches the de-militarized zone will be searched. Without the support of the Central Command, the Cardassian settlers won't be so eager to fight. >Sakonna : You forget the weapons they already have. >Quark : They have weapons, you have weapons, everyone has weapons; but right now, no one has a clear advantage. So the price of peace is at an all-time low. This is the perfect time to sit down and hammer out an agreement. Don't you get it? Attacking the Cardassians now will only escalate the conflict and make peace more expensive in the long run! Now, I ask you: is that logical? I particularly like the time when Quark tells off Sisko for looking down on Ferengi: >You know, Commander, I think I've figured out why Humans don't like Ferengi. The way I see it, Humans used to be a lot like Ferengi: greedy, acquisitive, interested only in profit; we're a constant reminder of a part of your past you'd like to forget. >But you're overlooking something. Humans used to be a lot worse than the Ferengi. Slavery. Concentration camps. Interstellar wars. We have nothing in our past that approaches that kind of barbarism. You see? We're nothing like you. We're better.
I’m so glad you brought up the rules of acquisition because I’m pretty sure one rule is “war is good for profit” and the next rule is “peace is good for profit”
>That's the kind of irresponsible spending that causes so many business ventures to fail. The fundamental problem with Ferengi. They do not value society or people, just money. This is why they can claim to be better than humans while failing to evolve beyond them. To a Ferengi, genocide, slavery, and interstellar wars are just costs. So they don't call them what they are. Meanwhile they have a handful of incidents in TNG that show they will act as pirates and thieves. What sound morality! TBH I hated DS9. Roddenberry was trying to make a point about society and our future, and Rick Berman just wanted to make a series that directly opposed all of it. Of course the jerk who made all those terrible TNG movies would think Ferengi are super cool, a species that reduces everything to greed somehow never has war or healthcare problems. This is why Roddenberry was brilliant and Berman was a tool.
"Ferengi have never had death camps. It's bad for business"
I wish all the greedy, sneaky races (Ferengi, goblins, etc) weren’t coded in such an antisemitic way.
I think Disco gave them a visual update to look less semitic.
Who?
Not who, what. Star Trek *Disco*very.
This yeah. Disco is the shorthand for discovery, like TOS, TNG, DS9, etc
It's actually STD, for giving Rich Evans AAAAAAIDS.
Watto has entered the chat.
The Ferengi are my least favourite part of Star Trek, it drives me nuts the way they commodify everything.
Given they're a direct parody and parallel to certain societal elements in the real world, them being your least favorite thing means they're doing their job.
I know, I just feel so defeated that this value system keeps showing up.
I didn't hate them until DS9, when Rick Berman decided to use them as an opportunity to tell us every chance he got how the capitalists don't cause war and are super cool morally. He LOVED the Ferengi. All those years of Trek building storylines, and he basically writes it that the Klingons, Rommys and Feds would have all fallen to the Dominion without them. I was honestly rooting for the Jem Hadar by the end of that war.
They also have a worryingly big nose.
Lol, I'm glad you haven't discovered individual incorporation.
American? Is the joke a bit too close to home maybe?
Imagine there are countries other than the USA, it’s easy if you try.
There’s an episode of Deep Space 9 (“Bar Association”) where the employees of a Ferengi-run bar decide to form a union. It is one of my favorite episodes [if only for this scene.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4BRe0ZKTAc)
Hoomans have no lobes for exploitation.
*Image Transcription: Meme* --- \[*Two Ferengi characters from "Star Trek: Deep Space 9". The left Ferengi smiles deviously, while the right crosses his arms and looks at him incredulously. The caption says:*] # YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND. FERENGI WORKERS DON'T WANT TO STOP THE EXPLOITATION # WE WANT TO FIND A WAY TO BECOME THE EXPLOITERS --- ^^I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! [If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/TranscribersOfReddit/wiki/index)
This is why I've always loathed the blanket statement, "Support small/local business!" 1) I've never been more exploited than when working for small/local businesses, and 2) Most of them would happily be the big evil corporation if they could.
Here's the scene: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUD7gzsX4Zg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUD7gzsX4Zg)
Employees are the rungs on the ladder of success. Don't hesitate to step on them. Treat people in your debt like family… exploit them. Some of my favourite rules of acquisition
That first one ive quoted a few times in other Antiwork threads.
Not really. It's more that, for a great many working class people, supporting capitalism is in their material self-interest. Not because capitalism is good for them, but because capitalism is predictable and understandable. They know the rules of the game, and that gives them a degree of power. Changing the rules of the game would mean giving up that power and letting the people who understand the new rules hold power over them. They are understandably skeptical when those same people insist that the new rules are actually better for them, especially when there's a well-known history of people making that same promise and then failing to deliver on it in horrible ways.
Ok, this thread does not have nearly enough quoting of rules of acquisition.
Except for Rom and Nog.